Like the rest of the bible, the writings of Isaiah are touted as
"prophetic". The problem is, the prophecies are always explained AFTER THE
According to Isaiah 7:14, the virgin would "...call his name Immanuel."
Jesus was not named or called Immanuel by Mary. A failed prophecy.
You wrote "Although Jesus never referred to his 'miraculous' birth."
The Bible says: "I and my Father are one. (Jesus speaking)" John 10:30
Jesus is here speaking of the fact that His Father is not an earthly father,
one of flesh and blood. While not making reference to a virgin birth, he is
certainly claiming something out of the ordinary, you will agree.
You still haven't shown me where Jesus referred to his "miraculous" birth.
Yes, "I and my Father are one" is an extraordinary claim.
Jesus also claimed that anyone with the faith of a mustard seed could say to
a mountain, "Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing
shall be impossible unto you." (Matthew 17:21) Although Jesus allegedly
made the claim, I haven't seen any documentation where it has actually
happened. Nor have I ever heard of anyone to whom "...nothing shall be
What you have verified so far is that Jesus made unusual claims. He didn't
back them up.
The Bible also says (Jesus speaking): "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath
sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am
the Son of God?" John 10:36 (Jesus is here claiming God as His Father: "If
I do not the works of my Father, believe me not." John 10:37
Again, Alan, more claims with no back up.
You wrote "It is important to realize that Christianity invented sin. Then,
Christianity offers to 'fix' it so the sinner can go to heaven. Its sort of
like having someone punch you in the eye and then sell you ice to keep the
The Bible says: " If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if
thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his
desire, and thou shalt rule over him." This reference to sin is found in
Genesis 4:7, written at least 1500 years before the Birth of Jesus the
Christ. Sin is mentioned dozens of times in the old Testament. Is this a
test? Of whom?
And, of course, Alan - once again you attempt to use the bible to prove the
bible. AKA "circular reasoning". You may be so used to doing this that you
have begun to believe that everyone you use it on is naieve enough to accept
it as truth.
There are, of course, further problems with your reasoning processes: What
are we to do with the testimony of so many of the people that have left us
their personal, written testimony of their faith in Jesus Christ and His
Word, the Bible. Many of those same persons are recognized as among the
greatest THINKERS of history? Here is a very small sampling of those that
have left their testimony:
By what line of reasoning do you reject the testimonies of men and women
like Blackstone, Locke, Coke and Montesquieu, Pascal, Napoleon, Shakespeare,
Rousseau, William Penn, George Washington, Samuel and John Adams, James
Madison, the signers of the Declaration of Independence, John Marshall, John
Hancock, Daniel Webster, Benjamin Rush, Roger Sherman, William Gladstone,
Benjamin Disraeli, Gallileo, Sir William Hershel, Charles Darwin (Yes,
Darwin), Pasteur, Frederick Douglas, Harriet Tubman, Queen Victoria, Abigail
Adams, Queen Elizabeth I, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Johannes Gutenberg, Sir
Isaac Newton, Booker T. Washington, George Washington Carver, Michael
Faraday, Albert Einstein, David Farragut, Lord Nelson, Douglas MacArthur,
John Harvard, Elihu Yale, Jedidiah Morse, Noah Webster, William Holmes
McGuffey, Lord Acton , Edmund Burke, Charles Dickens, Simon Greenleaf (a
born again Jewish Believer and the greatest authority on the Rules of Legal
Evidence in western jurisprudence), Alexis DeToqueville, Bach, Beethoven,
Mozart, Handel, etc., etc., etc (I have not scratched the surface in terms
of my "witness list.")
What evidence will you present to contradict the faith of those mentioned
and so many more of the bright lights of history not mentioned?
You have identified several dozen individuals above and have then made the
claim that they "...have left us their personal, written testimony of their
faith in Jesus Christ and His Word, the Bible." Yet you have provided
absolutely *no* written evidence that even *one* of the people you named had
that personal faith. Then you ask by what evidence I will refute your
Conversely, if I provide the names of luminaries form the same times who
were *not* Christians and who did *not* believe that Jesus Christ existed,
what does that prove? Is this a contest, Alan? Does the guy with the most
names win? Your attempt at proving the credibility of Christianity by
providing names of believers is puerile and ludicrous.
And if I provide the names of several dozen famous men in an Islamic nation
who testify to their belief in Islam and the deity of Allah, by the
reasoning you have presented, their claims are just as valid as yours.
Any rational observer would laugh me to shame if I tried to counter the
faith of the greatest thinkers in history; and I would be ridiculous indeed,
if I simply rejected their conclusions without a reasonable examination of
the evidence and a rational explanation for that rejection.
You have not provided "....a reasonable examination of the evidence and a
rational explanation for that rejection". You quote one man and claim his
statement covers all the rest you have named. You have provided nothing!
You have provided nothing but names, hoping the reader will be gullible
enough to believe that you have presented proof.
Here is the testimony of John Locke. I include it because it is
representative of the Testimonies of Men like like Blackstone, Coke and
"The Holy Scripture is to me, and always will be, the constant guide of my
belief; and I shall always hearken to it, as containing infallible truth
relating to things of the highest concernment. And I wish I could say there
are no mysteries in it: I acknowledge there are to me, and I fear there
always will be. But where I lack the evidence of things, there yet is ground
enough for me to believe, because God has said it: And I shall immediately
quit and condemn any opinion of mine, as soon as I am shown that it is
contrary to any revelation in the Holy Scripture."
Here is the testimony of Thomas Jefferson who you claim, "...left us [his]
personal, written testimony of [his] faith in Jesus Christ and His Word, the
"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on
man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the
teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the
first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."
Here is John Adams who you claim, "...left us [his] personal, written
testimony of [his] faith in Jesus Christ and His Word, the Bible':
"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for
"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the
Here is James Madison who you claim, "...left us [his] personal, written
testimony of [his] faith in Jesus Christ and His Word, the Bible':
"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on
civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of
political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of
the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty
have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government,
instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."
And here is Thomas Paine who you claim, "...left us [his] personal, written
testimony of [his] faith in Jesus Christ and His Word, the Bible:
"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to
that book (the Bible)."
"Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse
than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to
massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare
so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the
"It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God
against the evils of the Bible."
"Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and
you will have sins in abundance."
All statements above from
SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,
by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short
I will be glad to hear any further comments you have, Alan
I *will* be posting this letter to a website shortly. I'll let you know
which site. I intend to hold it up until I know whether or not you'll be
From M. Cage:
"You were born again for 20 years? And now you are not? You were a
caterpillar who became a butterfly, and then you went back to being a
caterpillar again? Impossible."
Of course you would have to say it is impossible. You have no choice in the
matter. You must practice absolute and complete denial. Because to admit
that anyone can de-convert would mean to admit that it is quite possibly not
genuine in the first place.
Incidentally, your analogy is flawed.
As a caterpillar, I was a born again Christian. The metamorphosis came
as I began to realize that born againism is nothing more than a man made
invention and belief system.
When I left the born again cocoon, I left the prison of born againism
behind. I emerged as an enlightened and free being with a capacity for
The caterpillar could not understand any of that.
The following is an exchange Between "Bob" and I in July, 2001. He has promised to send me a
experience is that Christians often don't respond a second
time after possibly having spent all of their knowledge on their initial comments.
(Note: Bob never responded)
I am not you enemy necessarily.
Interesting opening. You claim you're not my enemy but qualify your claim. Why would you be my enemy in the first place? Does the fact that we likely disagree, create an 'enemy' situation?
look Jews hate Jesus and are his enemy yet they say he lived and admit he performed miracles.
"Jews"? Which Jews? Do *all* Jews hate Jesus? How about "Jews For Jesus"? Are they also Jesus' enemies?
I would ask you to define your perception of "Jews" for me so I'll understand your definition better. All Jews do not, of course, hate Jesus. Neither do all Jews say Jesus lived or performed miracles. So you've begun your comments with two false assumptions which cause me to question your credibility and knowledge.
the romans own governmental records say a jesus lived that did many miracles.
historians say jesus lived.
Please provide extrabiblical references for the 'romans own governmental records' and provide the 'historians' names and where their references may be found claiming Jesus lived.
there is more evidence for jesus than for plato of greece. do you believe plato lived?
You've made another claim so I'll ask you to provide the documentation for your claim that there is more evidence for Jesus than there is for Plato. Incidentally, according to the Bible, Jesus claimed to be the Son Of God. Plato did not.
I should mention at this point that "go to the library and look it up" or "read your history books" or similar comments is not documentation but rather an attempt to avoid providing documentation/proof for your claims.
all the followers of Jesus save 2 died for their faith in Jesus according to outside Biblical history.
Documentation? And if all but 2 died for their faith in Jesus, so what? Their deaths only confirm their belief, not any truths.
if the followers of Jesus hid his body after he was crucified why would they not produce the body to save their lives? the Jews would have produced the body to disprove the resurrection if they could have done so. would you die for a lie? die to produce a false religion?
If Jesus actually existed and what you claim is true, it once again verifies the *beliefs* of his followers. It does not verify the validity of their beliefs. You should be aware that many people have died for "causes". Their deaths validate nothing aside from their personal beliefs.
I'm, presently reading a book, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" by Michael Baigent. Baigent claims, with documentation, that Christ did not die but that his living body was taken away by his followers and that Christ went on to live and even marry and have children in Europe. Interesting information.
the fools on TV are imposter's and are not real christian's. they are money grubbers do not let them ruin any chance to look at the Bible with an open mind.
You've done it again, Bob. More stereotyping. If you're speaking of televangelists, you've grouped them all into one category and then claimed none of them are Christians. You've even called them *all* 'fools'. The Bible exhorts you not to call any man a fool.
After stereotyping once again, you call for open mindedness. Your statement is an excellent example of a contradiction in terms.
the King james Bible is very advanced in many ways. a medical doctor married a christian woman.he knew there was medical and dietary laws in the Bible. so he set out to disprove the medical laws in the Bible. 7 years later he was convinced it was a divine inspired book, not written by a shepherd on a hill. he said we have only in the last 30 years or so had the knowledge to prove the Bible true. want to read his writings?
Yes. I'd be interested in his writings if you can also provide his name and his sources. I'll be looking forward to hearing more about this.
write me with legitimate open minded questions i will answer you. search for truth
Interesting that you would ask for "legitimate" and "open minded" questions. I have no idea what you consider to be legitimate or open minded. Your comments begin with two false assumptions based on you stereotypical perceptions. Since those comments are unfounded, I suspect what you consider to be legitimate may well be based on the same faulty reasoning and logic.
I would appreciate having your definition of "open minded" and how one goes about searching for truth.
My guess is that you've qualified your intent to answer my questions in order to avoid having to answer
questions which may evoke answers with which you don't agree or are unable to harmonize with the Bible.
I'm looking forward to your response!
Subject: You better think more on this Subject
You said that you could not beleive in a God that you cannot see.
Actually, I didn't say that at all. What I've said is that I don't believe the God of the Bible
existed. He is an invention of the Israelites with degrees of Paganism mixed in.
When was the last time anyone saw Buddah?
Buddha did not claim to be God or a god. He was a prince who abandoned all earthly possessions in
search of the meaning to his life. If you haven't studied his history, you may find it interesting.
You can't see the air but you know that it sustains life
Air is a fairly all encompassing term. Are you referring to our atmosphere? If so, it can be
measured. It consists of elements which are known to exist and behave in certain and
and for one to say that this world evolved where and how did it evolve from.
Evolution is, in general, a theory. When you speak of the world evolving I assume you're speaking
of the multiverse of universes which exist. I suggest no one has the answer to the origin of
the universe. Certainly not the Bible which is one of the most inconsistent and ambiguous books in
existence. That's not to mention its many contradictions.
and what of miracles..I choose to beleive in a God of love, I can understand the atrocities in the
Bible God told His people what would happen and he allowed it and You know what He could do
just that Why because He is God..
Your God of love slaughters infants, children, adults and the elderly. He also advocated and
caused the abortion of living fetuses which he said he would dash to the ground. His generals
executed little boys who were prisoners of war yet took their virgin sisters and used them sexually as they
saw fit. Biblegod behaves much as a spoiled rotten five year old who doesn't get her way
and uses temper tantrums to gain her ends.
and Yes Jesus will be back again..refer to Luke chapter 17 verse 26 and many more of the same
I would ask you, Susan, to disprove what I have written with regard to Jesus' return. Paul felt
such an urgency that he urged believers not to marry and not to accumulate belongings. Jesus told
his disciples he would be back before all of them died. They all died. He didn't return.
and as far as the Trinity The Bible said There are Three that bear witness In Heaven 3 what does
that tell you??? No it does not actually say the word "Trinity" the meaning of trinity is 3..
I understand the use of the word "trinity". Again, if you've read about Constantine, you
understand that the "Trinity" was voted upon. It was not a doctrine or teaching until the pagan
emperor decided it should be doctrine. It was a political process. It lost favor and gained favor
again. It is man's teaching and doctrine.
As with many other Christian doctrines and practices, the Trinity concept was borrowed from Mithraism.
My Friend Jesus said that one day every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus
Christ is Lord.. And the Bible also says that the Fool says there is no God..Not calling you a fool but
so says the word of God..
You use to Bible to prove the Bible. This is called "Begging the Question". Proof of a historical
Jesus is little and none. And with regard to the resurrection, there is no extra biblical proof or
evidence that it took place. You stop and think, "my friend", wouldn't such an earth shaking event
draw more attention? Yet no credible historians have discussed the resurrection as fact. And the
Bible relates several very different accounts of how it happened depending upon which Gospel or
book you read.
My friend I pray that you never speak against the Holy Spirit because the word says you can talk
against God and you can talk against Jesus but to speak against the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable
sin..I Pray peace and Mercy on your Life..God Bless..Susan
Again, you beg the question. You attempt to use the Bible to prove the Bible. If the trinity exists
and the Godhead is equal, why can I speak against God the Father or God the Son but not God the
Holy Spirit? Is not speaking against one speaking against all? Why does the Holy Spirit deserve
The entire thrust of my website is not to take anyone away from a belief in which s/he is
comfortable but rather to be supportive to those who have walked away from Christianity, are in
the process or leaving or who are considering leaving. I also moderate an email support group for
the same folks who want out. If you're comfortable spiritually with your beliefs then that's where
you need to be. I have no need to convince you otherwise.
dennis, (1) i read your article on the flood and some of the stuff you come up
with is so wrong,
Hi Brian -
I'm not sure which article you're referring to. I haven't cited any of the following
scriptures you quote below regarding Noah's Ark. Is it possible you went to an
offsite link on my website and mistook it for something I wrote? I notice you refer to
me as "dennis" rather than by my name, Mike. Was the article written by Dennis
like you said in (Gen. 6:16)
says "A window shalt thou maketo the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above.
You asked the question of how could all the animals breath with just one small opening
in the ark, well i will answer that question but first where in the Bible does it ever say
that there was just one small opening? Now my answer to your question would be that
the Bible does not say that there was just one small opening. In fact, the Ark is said to
have a window and a door (Gen. 6:16) and a covering (Gen. 8:13).
But where are additional windows mentioned?
In addition, various Ark sitings indicate the presence of a sort of "catwalk" on top of
the Ark which would have provided some kind of ventiliation. It would not be assumed
that the Ark would have been anymore "airtight" than an automobile or a home with the
windows and doors closed.
I'd be interested in knowing the specific book(s) and verse(s)
"indicating" a sort of catwalk. As far as not being
"airtight" referring to an auto or a home, imagine either one being closed for just 2
weeks and animal urine and feces being constantly produced on the floor. Not only
would the odor be bad, the methane and ammonia would be overwhelming.
In addition, the Bible does not say that the window remained closed for the 190 days,
but since it was in Noah's power to open the window (Gen. 8:6) it is likely that he
could have opened it sooner if the need for additional ventilation arose.
Even with the window (and the door) open part of the time, there wouldn't have been
sufficient ventilation to clear the accumulating odors and gases. I notice you're
referring to the window as "it" indicating that you also accept the notion
of one window.
(2) (Gen6:17)say's "I do bring flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh,
wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and everything that is in the earth
shall die. Then you asked the question how could a flood destroy sea animals,such as
whales, etc.....that are living entirely under water? If you would just look and search
what your actually studying then even a little toddler could figure this out.The Bible
clarifies the meaning of "everything" in (Gen6:17)by stating that it indluded "all flesh
wherein is the breath of life" and in (Gen 7:21-23) it is further explained that only
land animals were taken on the Ark.
Interesting observation. Assuming this is correct, how do you explain where all of the
animals in the oceans, lakes, rivers and streams came from the second time after the
alleged flood waters receded? Did they evolve? The bible doesn't mention a second
'creation' of them.
Well I have some more to disprove you with but I'am not going to waste my time, next
time try to figure something out a little more belivable than these questions, there just
So far Brian, you haven't disproven anything. The problem is - you're attempting to
prove the bible by quoting the bible. The bible is a self perpetuating book. It claims
to be the word of God because it says its the word of God. You assume the flood
account is accurate because the bible says it happened. This is called 'begging the
question'. Most biblical scholars agree if there was a flood such as described by the
bible, it was localized and did not encompass the entire earth.
oh ya your the head of AAA?
I'm not sure what this means. Sarcasm? If you meant Alcoholics Anonymous, the
acronym is "AA". Just two A's. Automobile Associaton of America doesn't make any
BTW - check the date on your computer. The year is coming up as 2001
on your Email.
Subject: Study More
It is evident that you are confused about some biblical truths. You may need to go back to the
original language before making your proclamations as stone fact. You are a bit off course on your
Furthermore, 2 Peter 3: 3, 4 says, "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days
scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since
the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation."
Jesus has not broken any promises. He will return as he promised. You have some
misinterpretations that you are holding to as fact. 2 Peter 3: 5 begins by saying, "For this they
willingly are ignorant of..."
Read 2 peter chapter 3. You will find that the Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some
men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all
should come to repentance.
Also, if you look at the events that were necessary for Christ's return, it would be clear to you that
they had not yet happened when the scriptures were concluded. As of now, I cannot find one
prophesy that needs to be fulfilled before his return, outside of the completion of the age of the
If you view Christ as a breaker of promises, then I am sorry to say, you will have your part in the
lake of fire. Be sure about what you are denouncing before you denounce it.
Subject: you are totaly lost
The bible warns us that in the last days prior to the coming of Christ many,
Mike McClellan) will deny the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He takes many
passages of scripture out of context, but yet fails to mention 2 Peter 3:3-4:
" Knowing this first, that there shall come scoffers(mockers) walking after
lust. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers,
church fathers) fell asleep(died) all things continue as they were from the
That sounds like you Mr. McClellan and many like you. The
is the most accurate and up to date ever revealed to man because it is the
OF THE LIVING GOD. The bible warns us that in the end times many would, "
the scriptures to their OWN DESTRUCTION", (2 Pet 3:16). I believe you need to
trust in Christ as your saviour. I believe in the infallible, inerrant, and
authority of the
word of God. In which you will be judged by someday Mr. McClellan. And that's
why you can call me a FUNDAMENTALIST.
You have a problem, and only Christ
can help you. Pastor August Rosado. P.S. I would love to debate you on the end
times and the rapture of the church.
Subject: A Poor Soul
You probably read my first e-mail concerning the SOON return of Christ. I
commentary concerning bible believing Christianity, the authority of God's
You add fire to my faith as a born again bible believing Christian. ..Why?
in Matt 16:18: And I say also unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this
esus) I will build MY CHURCH, and the GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL
AGAINST IT. For 2,000 years the church of Jesus Christ has been under attack,
and she is still here(not for long) PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.
You can go on attacking, but well did Jesus say about you and others like
But this is your hour, and the power of darkness" ( Lk 22:53). Mr. McClellan,
has a message for you. He loves you, and sent his son Jesus to die for you.
your heart to him, and he will take the hatred, the hurt, and the anger away.
change your life.
I don't hate you, but love you with the love of Jesus.
Subject: Letters on Web Site
Yes, it is tough to leave fundamentalist Christianity.
I am in the process now and it is difficult on so many
levels. I realize now that I have been, for lack of a
better word, programmed into feeling guilty whenever I
read materials from other religions or when I point
out a contradiction in the Bible. But, all through
I was innundated with the "importance of
church attendance" and the "eternal consequences of
disobeying God". No wonder I felt guilty and miserable
about religion-- I was bullied into believing that
thinking for myself would send me to a fiery Hell. I
have, at the present, found a warm and wonderful
community in Deism and it makes much more sense to me
than my Southern Baptist upbringing has.
sites like yours because they let me know I am not
Thanks for visiting my website and your kind
Most of the letters are "the worst of the worst" but
do convey the mindset of some folks.
The thrust of the site is to be supportive to folks
have left or are in the process of leaving born
fundamentalist Christianity. Its a difficult road
Subject: Are You The Man
What suffering you must have gone through with a GOD that would not
to have wild sex, party with drugs and alcohol, or use language and
that fit every occasion.
He probably doesn't want you to contact your
feminine side and explore an intimate relationship with another man. The
Bible probably even made those that rob, murder and molest look like
Face it a GOD like that just doesn't want people to think for
themselves, or experience things for themselves.
What could HE probably think He is protecting people from?
The idea, not wanting you to get aids, clap, gonorrhea, syphilis or some
pregnant out of wedlock. To think HE tried to keep you from alcoholism
drug addiction so you wouldn't wreck your life, marriage, or family. Hey,
you get mad or fed up it is your right to just go out and kill someone,
might even rape them first if you want, right?
I mean if your going to
prison or get the death penalty you may as well go for the gusto.
Just think of it, all of the fun GOD has kept you from and HE even
to keep others from having all that fun, sure there are some
suffer, but if it feels good do it.
I hope you can get through this message and before you respond, sleep
You feel free to lead your life the way you see fit, and you, and all
you lead can suffer the consequences of your mistakes.
You are trusting you with answers of life and eternity, you are
others to trust you for the answers of life and eternity, and you have
already made countless mistakes and been wrong more times than you
imagine, but you are smarter than GOD that sees the big picture.
If you are wrong about the Bible and you are wrong about GOD and you
wrong about heaven and hell, then you will probably be wrong about
in Jesus Christ.
It will be by your own will, not GOD's will that there will be hell to pay
and an eternity to remember those who suffer because of you, maybe
If the Bible is not true, and if there is no GOD, then still no man, no
family, no government, and no nation could find a better book to aid
a joyful, peaceful and prospering life. No book of law can compare, no
of parenting can compare, no book of charity can compare and no book
With no Heaven and with no GOD mankind would still be better off living
according to the Bible than in their own footsteps or even yours.
I know what it is to live in your footsteps and my life still bares the
If you are not saved, then all of your efforts for GOD were exhausted
own might. You exhausted yourself doing good for GOD and now you
serve a new
fresh desire, a new master, but with the same old story.
You are burnt out on the Bible, burnt out on GOD and now you are living
the power of human reason. The next time you read the newspaper you
the results of human reason.
I would rather be wrong believing the Bible, than wrong not believing
GOD asks nothing of us that is not for our own good, physical or
NO PAIN, NO GAIN ! ! !
I am not as sorry for you as I am for those you might influence.
Are you trying to face or conquer a deep down hurt by blaming GOD?
be nothing new.
If I understand your comments, anyone who doesn't hold your beliefs as truth:
Has wild sex
Abuses drugs and alcohol
Uses inappropriate language
May be a homosexual
Robs, murders and molests
Acquires sexually transmitted diseases
Wrecks their marriage and/or family
Causes pregnancies out of wedlock
Satisfies physical desires no matter the consequences
All of the above sound like stories right out of the Bible.
It has become popular among fundamentalist Christians to
impute immoral and inappropriate values and acts to anyone who
fails to embrace their convoluted belief system. It may
surprise you to know that non-Christians also practice
morality and obey the laws of the land.
After I was born again and became involved in fundamentalist
Christianity, I no longer had to think for myself. The Bible
dictated the life I was required to live as interpreted by
the other fundamentalists who didn't waste anytime "helping"
me to understand the Bible's true meanings.
You state that I'm trusting myself to find the answers to life
and eternity and that I'm making mistakes. Would you
define the questions and the mistakes I've made so we'll
both know what you're talking about.
If you read my page on the atrocities Biblegod committed in
the old testament, you'll understand why I don't agree with
you that the Bible is the literature we should look to, to
enjoy peace, prosperity.
If you read Leviticus, you'll understand why I don't agree
that it is the perfect book from which to learn law. The
last time I burned the required bull on my altar,
the neighbors complained about the stench , the pools of
blood and the flies, and my cruelty to the
animal when I sliced his throat while he was conscious.
The following is an excerpt from a letter written
by "Strike" whose website can be found at
The Bible says that God changes his mind - in which case
'he' cannot be trusted and his assurances/promises
cannot be relied upon.
To sum up, , the Bible depicts a deity who is unstable and erratic:-
God is responsible for confusion - Isa 45:7 (Contradicted
by 1 Cor 14:33). God himself lies and is responsible for
lies/deliberate deceit- 1 Kings 22:23, 2 Chron 18:22,
2 Thess 2:11 (Contradicted by Num 23:19, Titus 1:2).
God 'repents', i.e., regrets an action/changes his mind/
acknowledges that he has made an error - Gen 6:6-7,
Ex 32:14, 1 Sam 15:35, 2 Sam 24:16, 1 Chron 21:15,
Jer 18:8,10, 26:3,13,19, 42:10, Joel 2:13, Amos 7:3,
Jonah 3:10 (Contradicted by Num 23:19, 1 Sam 15:29).
Its unfortunate that you have accepted the Bible as the
word of any God when it is such a contradictory, errant and evil
speaking book. But my guess is you're where you need to
be right now spiritually. Its always easier to accept a
prescription for spiritual beliefs written and promoted by
someone else than it is to explore and seek truth actively
on your own.
Finally, why is it that Christians so often attribute leaving
Christianity to a "deep hurt"? I enjoyed being a Christian and
except for the usual disagreements we all have in life, there
was no hurt inflicted or received. Its simply a matter of
realizing that the Bible is no more the word of God than is
what I've written here and on my website.
On the other hand, your letter conveys anger, sarcasm and
Subject: YOU DO NOT KNOW THE LORD.....HE IS A STRANGER
god forgive you for you know not what you say.
GOD BLESS YOU AND SAVE YOUR SOUL.
YOU DO NOT KNOW THE LORD........ HE IS A STRANGER TO YOU.
GIVE YOURSELF UP TO JESUS AND THEN YOU WILL MEET HIM.
DO NOT SPEAK ABOUT SOMEONE YOU DO NOT KNOW.
I can't count how many times it has been suggested to me by
Christians that I was never saved. At the time I was
'saved', I was
watching Billy Graham on TV. At that time I realized I was a
sinner. I asked
god for forgiveness and I asked Jesus to come into my heart
and life and to
cleanse me from my sins. I asked god, in Jesus name, to make
me a new creature
in him. I asked him to lead me and guide me in my new life
and walk. I asked all of these things with a sincere and
If, after that, I still hadn't received salvation, then the
bible lied. biblegod doesn't answer prayer as promised in the
bible and the TV set was the only one who heard my sinners
As I wrote in my website, the more I studied the bible, the
errors and inconsistencies became manifest to me. I
questioned how the word of
an omniscient, omnipotent, all pervasive god could leave an
imperfect 'book' by
which man would be expected to live his life. The extreme
confusion caused by
the bible is evidenced by the hundreds of different
denominations which now
exist. That is not to mention all of the murders and wars
attributed to the god
of the bible. Did god deny his 'truth' to all of these
people who have diligently
searched his alleged word, seeking spiritual truth(s)?
Your allegation that I don't know god is really the only
explanation you can come up with to explain why a born-again
believer would leave the fold once "saved".
Your bible tells you not to judge others but you have chosen
to cast that command aside and judge me by the standards of
your own personal religious belief system. I rather imagine
you think your belief system is completely valid to the
exclusion of all other beliefs with which you don't agree.
One of my non- Christian friends lead me to your site.
Frankly, what I see here makes me sick- although I can not deny you your
First Amendment Right to speak out.
I suppose I just wanted to let you know that what you are doing is evil
and I have found that most of the time, when someone is SO obsessed with
proving a Christian wrong and they spend all their time and energy
trying to disprove it- they are actually seeking and seeking hard. I
pray for you- that you will eventually take this site off the web.
By the way, God loves us all- just because someone has a typo or
misspells something, doesn't mean a thing- God loves all types - from
the most educated to the babies....