Subject: Interview with an accidental ISMer, from Australia
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 07:36:22 -0700

Hi, This interview is with a fairly new ISMer. i am interviewing him
because he's really cool, but also because he didn't come here
{Palestine} specifically to do ISM work, he was just travelling. He wasn't ever an
activist, or particularly aware of the situation here. He had few
pre-concieved notions about the Israeli/Palestinian issue, and is thus
a fairly untainted mirror for you to see the situation here, or at least
his impressions of it. Most of us in ISM are not, of course, and came here
specifically to do solidarity work with Palestinians, as we oppose the
Occupation. Despite this, or perhaps because of this, he has been
particularly effective in the field, and his abilities stand out.
Whats your name? "Mikey xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
From? "xxxxxxxxxxx, Australia."
Age? "26."
So, Mikey, what are you doing here in Jenin? "Trying to understand and
hopefully be effective in the plight of the Palestinians against the
Occupation, the plight of the Palestinians for their existence."
How did you come to Jenin ISM? "I spent 5 days in Jerusalem, doing
some volunteer work in Ta hayshah Refugee Camp {Bethlehem} and
travelling around the West Bank. When i came across Ben in a Jerusalem
pub, he explained what ISM was about, their intentions, i felt as though i
had alot of energy, I could be an effective part of the group."
Why didn't you volunteer on a kibbutz or something else in Israel,
initially, before we met? "Uhhhmmm, I wasn't sure what I could
actually do that would be effective in the sense that it would actually help the
grassroots people."
So, why would that be different in Israel? "After spending just a few
days , you become aware that the Struggle is in Palestine, and thats
predominantly where i wanted to focus my energy."
So, did you have something against Israel, or the Israeli government,
before you came? "Not against Israel as people, but the Israeli governments
inhumane tactics."
What did you know about that? "The way the're intentionally trying to
cease the existence of the Palestinians."
What do you mean by that? "The way they're trying to drive Palestinians
out of their own country, their own land, for a 'Greater Israel', defying
every humane proverb i know."
So, is this situation something you felt strongly about before you
came?
"Not as strongly as I do now, because where we are in the world, the
West, we're sheltered from the hypocricies, and not really fed truth from
governments and media outlets."
I'm driving at a point, did you have a predetermined loyalty for either
'side' ? No. Simply, no."
But you did have a sense that elements of the Israeli government were
immoral? "Definitely."
So, on the flip side, what, if any, were your negative perceptions
about the Palestinians? "That they were portayed as simply militia, or terrorists."
So, we know they're portayed like that, but is that how you felt? "
It wasn't how i felt, because i didn't believe and understand the full
extent of the situation."
So you didn't have negative perceptions about any aspect of Palestinian
culture, or their resistance?
"Certainly their were some negative perceptions at the start simply
because of their portayal in the West, but i stayed open minded until i could
understand the situation, to the extent I know now, before forming
opinions."
OK, lets move on. Why did you choose ISM rather than volunteering in
an NGO or a school? I mean, ISM is hard core activism, and lets be up front,
makes no claims of neutrality. "ISM is definitely hard- core activism,
theres no doubt about that. I felt that I'd be more effective in an organization
or movement such as ISM rather than an NGO or school, purely for the fact
that I can relate to people in general, and have seen other occupations and
devastations around the world."
Such as ? " I was in Timor under Indonesian rule as they were trying
to become a nation, I lived in Papua New Guinea for 5 years where there
was constant civil and external strife. I just came from Iraq."
So, is there a common thread between places like Palestine and East
Timor?
"Definitely, definitely. But honestly I haven't come across a
situation that even comes close to that of the Palestinians."
So its worse here than it was in Timor, in your opinion? "In my
opinion it is, purely for the fact that there is so much suffering over such an
extended period of time."
So, Mikie, part of the reason i recruited you {laughter}, was that you
have street smarts, and have been around the world. As a seasoned
traveller and student of the world, tell me, what is the single most striking thing
about being in Palestine? "The people."
What about them? "After all their suffering, hard times, they're still
the most generous, warm hearted people , i think, in the world, with a
single, common goal of existence, freedom, and happiness."
And second? "The amount of devastation, not just in the material
sense, but the devastation of people and their culture."
Is Palestinian culture being destroyed by the Occupation? It seems to
me to be remarkably able to weather the storm, more than mine would. "Not as
much destoyed as dampened, they have an ability to carry their immense
culture thru generations, probably due to their close-knit family and cultural
values. It would be hard to imagine any other country, including my
own, to be able to do this to the extent they are."
How would you describe the nature of the Israeli military presence in
Palestine? "Unjustified and heavy handed, inhumane."
Talk about 'unjustified'. "Unjustified in the sense that its against
every moral and humane standard."
But politically, how is it unjustified, in your eyes? "I can't
understand how a supposedly democratic, first world country can justify to itself
and its people, and to the rest of the world, the driving out of indigenous
people from their land."
In your experience, your time here and in Israel itself,what is the
Israeli argument for the Occupation?
"I can't find terms for a valid reason. From an Israeli perspective, I
think its based on greed and a general fear of Palestinians."
OK, talk about 'heavy-handed', as you mentioned above. "The constant
humiliation with no differentiation between men and women, young and
elderly. The extreme excessive violence and the lack of basic human
rights."
So, Israeli military violence is arbitrary? "Theres no pre-determined
guidelines, and the scariest thing is they don't seem to have to answer
to anyone, especially their own government."
OK, talk about 'inhumane', as you mentioned above. "{long
pause}.......inhumane in the sense that they have no predetermined
moral thoughts about any of their actions, which is a reflection of their
mentality and their governments' agenda."
So, how would you imagine that the mandatory 3 year military service
affects young Israelis? I mean, being sent from a normal life in Israel, and
forced to work as an occupational soldier, all day long, month after month.
"Personally i think they carry that hatred and the subconscious
realization of non-existence of Palestinians into later life. Which I also thing
is passed on thru generations of, not knowing any better."
So, you think enforcement of the Occupation is having long term
negative effects on the general Israeli character? "Definitely."
How do you feel about the tactic of suicide bombing being used by
certain elements of the Palestinian resistance? "Desperate last resort."
Does it bother you, morally, I mean? "It certainly does, its certainly
a moral question, but the words last resort really sums up their
struggle. They're fighting the most advanced colonial Occupation in history, with
what they have."
So, you've been in Jenin ISM for about 3 weeks, whats it like, for
folks who haven't been here? " The situation in Jenin is like nothing I have
ever seen before anywhere else in the world. I have so much empathy for the
people. It is amazing that they attempt and succeed to some extent
through constant struggle, occupation and the lack of existence. It is just
another trait that makes these people so special. From an ISM perspective it is
very difficult, trying to forge relationships and co-operation with the
local communtiy and a genuine understanding of the situation is one of the
hardest but most rewarding things I have personally ever done."
And i'm assuming that the best part is your amazing international
coordinator? { Laughter}
So, seriously, I'm gonna fire a few short answer questions at you.
Do Palestinians hate Israelis? "No."
Is this a religous conflict? "No, not from the Palestinian side. "
Would the Palestinians you've met accept a reasonable peace deal?
"Yes."
Would they try to 'push Israel into the ocean'? "No, they're the type
of people that can co-exist."
Does Palestine have a right to resist the Occupation? "Yes, its the
most basic moral right."
Can Israel ever achieve its goal of removing Palestinians from the
Occupied Territories, short of a nuclear Holocaust? "Definitely not."
Ok, whats the coolest thing you've seen here? "Our demonstration
{Direct Action} at Zbooba, proving the Apartheid Wall is not flawless, and the
expression and sense of hope on the local people's faces."
So, you mean when we attacked the Wall and cut it to shreds? "Yes."
Whats the worst thing you've seen here? "When they were carrying that
kid in Yanoon into the medical center, with 2 bullet wounds, he was in so
much pain and you could see in his eyes that he was unsure about the fate of
his life."
I think alot about that too, I saw him actually get shot, watched him drop.
Do you think he lived?
"I'm hoping that he lived, but there as such a delay between him
getting injured and the ambulance arriving because of the Israeli roadblock.
Still unsure of his outcome."
I'll bet he died, but i hope not. OK, last thing, what should the world
know about the Israeli Occupation of Palestine? " The world should
firstly know the truth. The truth about what the ultimate goal is for Israel,
the truth about the Palestinian people, their generousity, their culture
and most importantly their existance. "
In Struggle, Ben, Jenin, Palestine