January 2008
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Correlation of Financial Loss with Forefront Mars and Saturn in the 2nd Chart
by Sandra Weidner

This paper follows one entitled Rich Men, Lucky Gamblers, and Lottery Winners. It showed that those born with venus and jupiter, the lesser and greater benefics of astrology, respectively, forefront in the 2nd chart (see Method below for explanation of this astrological approach) are favored for wealth. Forefront by timing (that is, progressed to the moment), venus and jupiter favor windfalls. When working together, venus and jupiter demonstrate abundance in every aspect of life they touch. Here is the link to that paper: Paper on Wealth.

O.J. Simpson’s finances during his trial for the murder of his wife, Nicole, also fell into this category. He was born with good prospects for money. This was evidenced by his wealth prior to the death of his wife.

This paper demonstrates that those born with forefront mars and saturn, the lesser and greater malefics of astrology, in the 2nd chart are lifelong sufferers of financial difficulties. Forefront by progression mars and saturn in the 2nd chart sponsor periods of financial loss.

The paper on Simpson also demonstrates this more unfavorable condition. During his trial, his dream team surely cost him a great deal of money. At the same time, he had lost the income acquired through product sponsorship. At that time he had mars, saturn, and neptune—the planets describing siege condition—forefront in his 2nd chart. Here is the link to the that paper: Paper on Simpson's Financial Losses During His Trial.

Birth data on the lifelong poor as well as the scammed, foolish, and financially unlucky is less available than that of society’s “winners,” the wealthy and successful. Accordingly, this is a shorter paper than the one on rich men and lottery winners.

The Planets of Hard Work, Hard Times, and Failure
Mars and saturn are the traditional malefics of astrology, the lesser and greater malefics, respectively. They are together and predominant in charts of “losers”—from losers of health to losers of social approval to losers of money. Venus and jupiter create charisma, an attracting force correlated with success and bounty. Mars and saturn create a kind of anti-charisma, a repulsing force associated for all of us with lack and failure. Mars and saturn are often forefront at birth in charts of individuals “stricken” from birth.

The positions of the planets—forefront or background—reflect our early environment. Oversimplifying for the sake of making a statement, those with venus and jupiter forefront are those raised in an environment which demonstrated love, affection, and appreciation (all venus). Those with jupiter forefront gained their identity in an environment which demonstrated benevolence, abundance, safeness, and being valued (all jupiter). Life for them was full and adequate. These latter, I believe, are our EQ people, those with emotional intelligence. They do not panic when confronted with a new situation because from early life their challenges were rarely greater than their maturational skills. With that kind of foundation, they grew up to be self-confident adults. Their internal monologue of “I can prevail” and even, “I deserve to prevail” became core beliefs.

Those born with mars forefront are those who from childhood knew strife, accidents, injury, quarrels and criticism. Those with saturn forefront are our endless orphans. As toddlers they knew want, deprivation, abandonment, and isolation. Such individuals tend to panic or flee when confronted with new situations because from birth onward their challenges were often greater than their maturational skills. Failure became the only model they truly knew.

Mars and saturn do have some positive values. Venus and jupiter also have some negative meanings. We need each of these planets—what they represent in terms of challenge, adaptation and growth—to lead rich and varied lives. Their distribution—foreground or background and preponderance—in each chart decides their power for fortune or misfortune. For most of us their distribution is not too eccentric. The majority of people have a Bell curve distribution of benefics and malefics in most areas of their lives. They have some talents and some faults. They experience some success and some failure. We all are, for the most part, “average Joes.” But, those charts with mars and saturn forefront from birth show the ascendancy of distress over success. The individuals who “own” them experience the dissonance of material, emotional, and psychic life more than its harmony.

Here we are only interested in their occurrence in the 2nd chart, the chart describing our income and movable possessions. Mars and saturn work together and forefront (in a set on or ruling an Angle) in our 2nd charts to restrict our income or contribute to our losing it.

The Astrological Significators for Losing Money
Foreground mars and saturn in any chart represent distress for subject areas covered by that chart.

To demonstrate financial loss or misfortune, each partial 2nd chart below shows significant locations of mars and saturn at birth. They identify, according to the rules formulated below, each individual’s tendency to limited income.

If a sudden financial loss occurred for which the date was given, I included the astrology which shows it.

Briefly, then, the significators in the 2nd chart for poverty, penury, or financial misfortune are:

This astrological method is not the traditional Western one. It is not traditional, period. True, it uses sidereal astrology, the predominant astrology of the East. It also uses the Egyptian harmonic. Sidereal astrology and Egyptian harmonics are both quite old. But this method started with me. Its working rules were empirically-derived through years of research. At first these charts seemed too complex. But orbs and sets are quite limited. Over time a distinct, “reproducible” astrological language began to emerge. As the simplicity and dependability of the language was grasped, interpretation became simple. Rules are placed in a separate paper:

Chart Rules

For each chart below I present the most important influences to Angles, 2nd, and 8th houses within the 2nd chart. Birth planets, in blue ink, are inside the circle along with their harmonics (b2) planets, which use green ink. Conception planets, in red, are outside the circle, along with their harmonics (c2) planets, which are black. The numbered loops represent houses. I have only drawn in houses of interest. All the house cusps are listed below the drawing.

Data acknowledgements for all charts are given at the bottom of this paper.

Since we are interested in the astrology of money, I include very little biographical information. We start with the harmonic chart for:

#2789, Financial Loss
Quoting my data source: “American born millionaire, became a stock broker by trade and lost everything when the Stock market crashed in 1929. Died 5/1933 [age 60] after a cold went into his lungs.”

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find others who lost their fortune in the stock market crash of 1929. Let’s look first at the set that promoted 2789’s financial wealth:

Set (1)b NN23 Aries 41
b2 pluto23 Aries 45
b venus22 Cancer 02ruler of b 2nd and 8th houses
b2 mercury25 Cancer 25ruler of B MC and B Asc
b2 jupiter25 Cancer 53

With influence to two Angles as well as 2nd and 8th houses, Set (1) above falls into the category identified in my earlier paper on “financial winners” as a lighted (by the node) golden benefic. Conception 2nd is ruled by Sagittarius. C jupiter at 8 Leo 16, c2 moon (ruler of c 9th, co-ruler of c 8th house by 12 of 36°), and c NN at 10 Taurus 29 provide a double-lighted jupiter with influence to 2nd and 8th houses (but not an Angle), also promoting accumulation of money, especially during the time period when c NN progressed closer to jupiter. It was at 7 Taurus 42, just starting to pass away, on October 28, 1929, the first day of the crash.

”Faults” in his 2nd chart showing the tendency to financial loss are identified in the drawing below:

#2789, Financial Loss
Partial Harmonic Chart for the 2nd House

Placidus: c11—20Vir, c12—14Lib, c2—6Sag, c3—12Cap b11—19Can, b12—19Leo, b2—11Lib, b3—12Sco

Note b2 uranus in Pisces in c 4th house. It is not lighted, does not influence a 2nd or 8th house, and does not rule an Angle. Nonetheless, 2789’s 2nd chart harmonics produced a uranus in Pisces, a placement often indicating potential for unknown (Pisces), usually unpleasant (Pisces) surprises (uranus). Its placement in 2789’s conception 4th house suggests his surprise could occur in the latter part of his life (4th house). [He died four years after the crash.]

Set (2) above is a close as he comes to a 2nd chart dark malefic. It includes Angle/node/mars/saturn plus c2 venus (not shown) at 10 Sagittarius 43). Saturn co-rules (12 of 36°) c 2nd house. Mars rules C Asc in b 2nd house. Mars, however, is more than 2° below the Angle. The node is also below the Angle/saturn and progressing away from it. The data for this chart, however, is categorized “C” (7:00 a.m. , 1873). Birth just minutes earlier would have put both mars and saturn within orb to B Asc. On October 28, 1939—the first of two days of the stock market crahs—pc2 moon was at 13 Gemini 24, right in the middle, t2 NN at 13 Pisces 44, t2 saturn at 12 Virgo 11, and t2 pluto at 13 Sagittarius 27. Together these represent a “death”—in this case, of 2789’s financial life.

We can look at Set (2) as two separate sets, with MC/Asc/saturn in one set and mars/node in a second set. The interplay of the latter planets with his progressions (10/28) and return (10/27/29) are interesting:

Set (4)c2 venus10 Sagittarius 43
c2 SN11 Sagittarius
c mars12 Virgo 14ruler of C Asc in b 2nd house
pb2 jupiter10 Virgo 21ruler of b 4th house
pb2 uranus10 Pisces 20
pc2 sun10 Pisces 29ruler of C MC
return MC11 Gemini 34
return Asc10 Virgo 51
return2 saturn11 Virgo 24

I will be the first to admit the above set is potentially confusing. It contains both a dark malefic and a golden benefic. Which—the lucky or the unlucky—event would come first? In 2789’s case, we have hints of which came second through transiting node/pluto to his B Asc/saturn. He also had two other damaging sets:

Set (5)c moon9 Capricorn 22co-ruler c 8th house, 12 of 36°
b2 mars9 Cancer 57ruler of b 8th house
pb moon9 Cancer 27
pb2 sun11 Aries 21ruler of b 12th house
pc mars10 Libra 21ruler of C Asc in b 2nd house
pc2 saturn10 Capricorn 34co-ruler of c 3rd house, 12 of 36°
c2 mercury10 Capricorn 08ruler of c 8th house

Set (5) above, a dark malefic, has Angular as well as 2nd and 8th house influence. He has another dark malefic:

Set (6)c2 sun18 Cancer 49ruler of C MC
c2 mars18 Libra 54ruler of C Asc in b 2nd house
pb2 saturn18 Capricorn 01co-ruler of b 4th house, 19 of 33°
t NN (10/28/29)18 Aries 26

Return NN was in nearly the same position, at 18 Aries 28. Set (6) influences two Angles and a 2nd house. Its 4th house influence, plus birth uranus in Pisces in c 4th (discussed above), plus his lighted saturn conjunct neptune of Set (3) (shown in drawing above) in b 4th/c 2nd houses all suggest lack (saturn) or disaster (light/mars/saturn or uranus/Pisces) in the latter part of his life (4th).

2789’s 2nd chart accurately describes his financial situation at the time the stock market crashed in 1929.

Although we do not have confirming data, it is possible 2789 inherited some of his family’s wealth at the traditional age of 21. At that time he had:

(a)b mercury21 Leo 21ruler of B MC and B Asc
b jupiter21 Leo 28
pC Asc21 Leo 28


(b)c2 venus10 Sagittarius 43
pc2 NN10 Gemini 41
pC MC10 Virgo 54
return mercury10 Virgo 10
return jupiter10 Gemini 43
return2 venus11 Gemini 34


(c)pb mercury28 Virgo 38ruler of B MC and B Asc
b2 venus28 Pisces 09ruler of b 2nd house

(a) plus (b) plus (c) gives 2789 more than enough forefront benefic influence to represent an inheritance.

5424, Financial Loss
(From him to Dell in March, 1982): “European workaholic who made good money which he accumulated into a substantial nest egg by age 51. He enjoyed a few years of retirement until February of 1979 when a trusted friend persuaded him to invest all of his life savings, $200,000, into a Northern California gold mine venture. There was a mine but no gold was found and when the mine was shut down in late 1980, he lost everything.”

5425, Financial Loss
Partial Harmonic Chart for the 2nd House

Placidus: c11—9Cap, c12—9Aqu, c2—15Tau, c3—4Gem b11—11Lib, b12—29Lib, b2—21Sag, b3—8Aqu

Set (1) shows Asc/mars/saturn with saturn a little (23’) over the 2° orb from Asc. In addition to influencing B Asc, it influences C Asc through mars, which also rules c 8th house. Saturn co-rules (30 of 47°) b 2nd house. An English birth is recorded to the nearest 15 minutes. 5424’s birth time was given as 7:30 p.m. BST. Using that time and an estimated day (February 15, 1979) for his investment, it coincided with pB MC at 11 Scorpio 07, in the same set with that saturn. The “midpoint” between saturn and mars above is 12 Fixed 58. When the mine shut down, pB MC was at 12 Scorpio 46 with the mars/saturn. Progressed c2 mars was at 19 Sagittarius 58 on C MC at 19 Sagittarius 53. Progressed c mars was at 27 Sagittarius 21 opposite b mercury at 27 Gemini 11, ruler of B MC and b 8th house. These are all forefront malefic influences.

Pc2 neptune was at 20 Pisces 29 (coming from 16 Pisces 37 at conception), in the same set with C MC at 19 Sagittarius 53 when #5424 bought into the mine in 1979. Neptune sponsors fantasy as well as fraud. His progressed Angular neptune suggests #5424 was being scammed or engaging in too much wishful thinking. Pb mars at 18 Cancer 33 at the same time, conjunct b neptune, in c 8th house and ruler of b 4th house, suggests an immense desire (mars/neptune) for gain (8th) through cooperative ventures (8th) which could end (4th) in nothing real (neptune).

Set (2) above, harmonic moon in Pisces in 4th/12th houses also suggests unforeseen (12th) financial (2nd chart) suffering (moon in Pisces) in the latter part of life (4th).

5424’s 7th chart is even better at showing his financial misadventure with the mine investment as it is in 4th/12th houses of the 2nd chart. It suggests surprise (12th) sorrow (moon in Pisces) at the end of life (4th). With this astrological method moon and uranus in Scorpio and Pisces often act as the simplest symbolic statement of difficulties which can also be expressed through mars and saturn.

C Asc, shown in the drawing above, is in Aries conjunct c SN in Aries. All by itself this suggests an individual liable to rash (SN) acting before he thinks (Aries/Asc). His 7th chart puts b7 neptune, ruler of b 4th house, in the set at 15 Aries 30. His rash action is motivated by unbridled flights of fancy (Aries/neptune). This set tells us his tendency to such late life behavior, but not which area it will work through. The area is shown by b7 saturn at 18 Pisces in the same set with C MC at 19 Sagittarius 53. Saturn co-rules (30 of 47°) b 2nd house, identifying the loss (saturn) will be financial (2nd). Saturn is in 4th/12th houses, suggesting unforeseen (12th) suffering (12th/Pisces) through loss (saturn) in the latter part of life (4th).

On November 1, 1980 (a guesstimate of the time the mine closed, “late 1980”), pb7 NN was at 18 Sagittarius 11 in the set with the above saturn/MC. At 18 Sagittarius 09 when he purchased the mine, by itself it suggested he should have proceeded with extreme (financial) caution.

5782, Financial Loss
(Given by her in Dell of November, 1983): “American wife of husband (born December 19, 1927) who was talked into investing their money in an oil-gas venture by his employer in the fall of 1981. They lost all of their savings as well as the husband’s retirement fund and were in danger of losing their home.”

5782, Financial Loss
Partial Harmonic Chart for the 2nd House

Placidus: c11—23Cap, c12—28Aqu, c2—18Tau, c3—9Gem b11—8Ari, b12—20Tau, b2—13Can, b3—4Leo

Set (1) above shows Angle/mars/saturn, a dark malefic. None rule 2nd or 8th houses, but mars falls in 12th/2nd and saturn in c 8th house. Mars and saturn each being harmonics for the 2nd chart, this set identifies potential financial (2nd chart harmonics) hard times (mars/saturn with Angular influence).

Set (2), with c sun conjunct c2 neptune, co-ruler (30 of 52°) of c 12th house, is in the same set with C MC at 28 Sagittarius 49, demonstrating 5782’s liability to financial (2nd chart) illusion (neptune/Pisces/Angle). C2 neptune was retrograde at conception (27 Pisces 07R). It had turned direct to be at 28 Pisces 51 on October 1, 1981, guesstimated time (“fall of 1981”) of investment.

Set (3), moon/mars/saturn, forms another dark malefic with Angular influence. Mars rules C Asc and c 8th house. Saturn rules b 8th, and moon co-rules (23 of 24°) c 4th house. On October 1, 1981 pc2 sun at 3 Leo 54 joined the set.

5782’s birth was given to the minute. The data source claims “fall 1981” as the time when 5782 was persuaded to join the oil-gas venture. It does not tell us a date for when he discovered he was losing his shirt. We can see at the time of his investment he was not on solid financial ground through progressed neptune’s aspect to C MC. But at the time of investment he also had severe negative progressions:

Altogether, at the time of his investment, 5782 had progressed Angles to mars, saturn, and neptune—the planets of siege conditions. I would have expected such astrology when he understood he had made a serious financial error, not when he made his investment. I do not have enough birth data plus investment and failure dates to check this apparent anomaly out.

5782 also had 12th/2nd and 2nd/4th overlaps, the latter with c neptune which by themselves suggest a connection between financial (2nd) surprises (12th) late in life (2nd/4th) because of speculation (neptune).

We do not know if, indeed, 5782 lost his home along with his retirement funds. At birth he had a golden benefic (node/moon/mercury/venus/jupiter/uranus) with influence to B Asc, b4th and c 2nd houses. That 4th influence suggests he might re-coup his losses. He also had a conjunction of venus and jupiter (both harmonics) in Cancer in 2nd/4th houses with influence to c 2nd house and birth Midheaven. It lacks a light, but powerfully (jupiter is exalted in Cancer) suggests financial (2nd house, 2nd chart) well-being (venus/jupiter) at the end of life (4th). Did his oil-gas venture experience a late turn-around and change into a winner investment?

Barney Barnato
From the data source: British-South African entrepreneur who rose from childhood poverty as the son of an old clothes merchant. He joined a circus as a youth before moving to South Africa with diamond fever. Demonstrating a genius for financial manipulation [one wonders if this is not a pejorative for a ‘natural tendency to self-aggrandizement even if it involves stealing’], he accumulated a diamond mining company worth millions by 1895 and became the found and CEO of Barnato Banks.”

”When he began to have heavy losses due to precipitous speculation, he jumped from a ship in the Atlantic to his death on June 14, 1897.”

Barney Barnato
Partial Harmonic Chart for the 2nd House

Placidus: c11—16Lib, c12—5Sco, c2—28Sag, c3—15Aqu b11—3Tau, b12—13Gem, b2—1Leo, b3—23Leo

Set (1) shows clear evidence of Barnato’s penury in old age. It includes C MC, b2 saturn, and b2 moon. Saturn, in Pisces, is in c 4th house in this, the 2nd chart.

Set (2) shows a wider orb, possible because of the presence of c2 sun in the set, of Asc/sun/mars/saturn/uranus/uranus/neptune. Houses ruled or co-ruled include b 8th, c 8th, c 4th, and c 12th. Neptune rules B MC in c 4th house. Mars/saturn/neptune describes siege conditions (here, the financial results of Barnato’s disastrous speculation). Allusions to the 4th house suggest, again, conditions at the end of life.

In this, his 2nd chart, Barnato’s birth moon, ruler of B Asc in c 8th house, at 28 Pisces 07 is in the same set with three jupiters, with c jupiter ruling c 2nd house. The moon-jupiter conjunction in Pisces falls in c 4th house. So much benefic influence to 2nd, 4th, and 8th houses suggest Barnato may have been able to recover from his speculative losses, or at least may have been able to live out the end of his life in relative affluence, not poverty.

His despair is indicated by his Pisces moon in c 4th house. (Does its inclusion in b 10th indicate it would function at the zenith of his career [10th] which would also represent the end of his life [4th]?) Moon in Pisces influencing a 4th house is tricky. Pisces/4th suggests being strung out (neptune) late in life (4th). When the light is the moon, it suggests a “learned” state, likely a re-stimulation of early childhood (4th) states of chaos and/or despair. (Sun would be less destructive because it symbolizes his essence, not a painful state he learned.) The Pisces/4th moon’ influence in Barnato’s death is confirmed in his 7th chart , where we normally look for conditions surrounding suicide. Progressed c NN, coming from 2 Cancer 57 at conception, was at 28 Gemini 48, highlighting his Pisces moon (see footnote 1). Pisces moon represents states of magical, fantasy-like playfulness as well as bleakness. I assume his losses turned his moon toward its more negative interpretation.

Andre-Gustave Citroen
Data source notes read: “French industrialist, the creator and manufacturer of a front wheel drive car, the Citroen. During WW I his company mass-produced munitions and post-war, turned to automobile works. He introduced Henry Ford’s assembly line methods to the European auto industry when he established one of the largest factories in France. In 1934 he lost control of his company with bankruptcy. Citroen died July 3, 1935, Paris.

Andre-Gustave Citroen
Partial Harmonic Chart for the 2nd House

Placidus: c11—15Aqu, c12—28Pis, c2—9Gem, c3—27Gem b11—30Leo, b12—25Vir, b2—14Sco, b3—19Sag

Citroen’s financial good fortune shows in Set (1) which shows a conjunction of moon to jupiter in 2nd/8th houses without affliction. Set (2)—mercury/jupiter/jupiter with a wide square to b2 sun—also, through mercury and jupiter, influences b 2nd and b 8th houses. Plus, he has weak golden benefic with a wide orb:

Set (3)b mars10 Aries 10ruler of b 2nd house
c sun13 Aries 05
b2 venus8 Cancer 19ruler of B Asc and b 8th house
c2 jupiter12 Libra 10ruler of c 8th house

I have omitted several planets not germane to interpretation of Set (3).

Citroen’s bankruptcy is best seen in Set (4), which contains C Asc with b2 uranus, c2 neptune, and b2 mars. That is an Angle/mars/neptune with influence to b 4th and both 12th houses. If we include b2 moon, c2 sun, and c saturn in the set, we have Angle/mars/saturn/neptune with additional influence to B MC, C MC, and c 4th house, showing siege conditions at the end of life. The expanded set symbolized what happened, but the planets were too far apart to hang together by progression. His significant progression was pc2 saturn (coming from 5 Leo 55 at conception), ruler of C MC, to 19 Leo 03 in (July 1, 1934 the approximate date of his loss of control of his business through bankruptcy). Then he had a closer Angle/uranus/mars/saturn/neptune. Its largest orb came from the Ascendant to c2 mars, an orb of 1° 12’.

Dino DeLaurentis
DeLaurentis was a major Italian-American film producer. Data notes state that “by January, 1988 his company was in debt $122 million to creditors.” (He declared Chapter 11 and re-formed). We are interested in his astrology in early 1988.

Dino DeLaurentis
Partial Harmonic Chart for the 2nd House

Placidus: c11—0Aqu, c12—6Pis, c2—22Tau, c3—13Gem b11—4Ari, b12—14Tau, b2—9Can, b3—1Leo

DeLaurentis’ money-enhancing sets are not difficult to see. Set (1), C MC with c venus, venus ruling c 2nd house. Set (2) includes B MC/node/venus/venus/mars/jupiter, with mars ruling and jupiter co-ruling (13 of 21°) c 8th house.

I wonder, does the following set, all falling in b 2nd house, indicate neptunian pursuits (movies) will yield him favorable (NN) results financially (2nd house/2nd chart) through career (10th):

b neptune15 Cancer 38co-ruler (30 of 36°) of b 10th house
c neptune15 Cancer 39
b sun20 Cancer 50ruler of b 3rd house
c2 NN21 Cancer 02

DeLaurentis moved to the United States in 1970. C jupiter, ruler of c 9th house, started out at 22 Gemini 09 three degrees away from B Asc at 19 Gemini 02. On January 1, 1970 it had progressed to 19 Gemini 02. I have not systematically studied charts of individuals who leave the country of their birth. Jupiter is the greater benefic, however, and its rulership of the 9th house suggest foreign (9th) benefits (jupiter).

Set (3) above, involving sun/moon/mercury/mars/saturn, is DeLaurentis most afflicted set, with influence to two Angles and c 8th house. On (April 1) 1988, the approximate time he was in severe debt, progressed birth harmonic saturn, ruler of b 8th house, had entered the set at 14 Leo 05.

Gambler #7770
Quoting my data source: “American gambler with extreme financial ups and downs. After serving in the U.S. Army in 1955, he sold life insurance for eight years and was a professional photographer 1969-1970. With gambling, he lost everything in 1969 and was such a big winner July 1971 that he bought a new Mercedes.” [We do not know if he had any money left…]

Gambler #7770
Partial Harmonic Chart for the 2nd House

Placidus: c11—6Pis, c12—18Ari, c2—20Gem, c3—10Can b11—9Pis, b12—21Ari, b2—21Gem, b3—12Can

Starting with rulers of houses, mercury and the moon rule and co-rule birth and conception 2nd houses. Only one mercury falls in a set which includes benefics, shown in Set (1), above. Set (1) includes B Asc/mercury/mars/jupiter/jupiter. Since jupiter co-rules b 8th house, this set influences an Angle and 2nd and 8th houses. It is his most powerful benefic set for this, his 2nd chart. We do not have even a month for the year he lost so much money, but July, 1971 was given as a time of a big win for him. On July 15, 1971 pc2 jupiter, ruler of c 8th house, was at 22 Pisces 31 in the same set with c2 NN at 22 Sagittarius 29. He also had progressed B MC at 10 Pisces 21, pb NN at 10 Sagittarius 21, and pb2 venus at 10 Pisces 53. Set (1) came into play in the following manner:

Set (1) for 7/15/71B Asc1 Gemini 22
c mercury1 Gemini 25ruler of c 2nd house
b2 jupiter2 Virgo 18ruler of b 8th house
b jupiter0 Sagittarius 35ruler of b 8th house
c2 mars1 Sagittarius 38
return venus0 Gemini 24
return pluto2 Virgo 48
return2 venus1 Virgo 35

I have no idea of his location when he won, so his return (starting July 2, 1971) was calculated for his place of birth. Its Angles were not used. Now Set (1) has become a golden benefic with influence to an Angle, 2nd and 8th houses.

Set (2) above can go either way. With a return mars it would probably act more like an Angle/mars/saturn. With a return jupiter, however, we get the following:

Set (2) for 7/15/71C MC3 Aquarius 59
c2 venus4 Taurus 30ruler of C Asc
c venus1 Leo 08ruler of C Asc
b2 saturn3 Leo 25
c2 sun2 Scorpio 52
return jupiter3 Scorpio

Sets (1) and (2) above, with the addition of return and progression planets, show influence of venus and jupiter to 2nd and 8th houses and multiple influence to Angles. Progressed c jupiter, ruler of c 8th house, which at conception was retrograde at 19 Libra 42 conjunct b2 NN at 20 Libra 41 had turned direct and progressed to 20 Libra 38 (i.e., it had left its conjunction to the north node and had finally returned to a close conjunction with it on the date of #7770’s big win).

7770’s financial extremes make some sense. Set (1) was major in contributing to his ups. His downs came from several conditions. First, the only benefic he had ruling 2nd or 8th houses was jupiter, ruling both birth and conception 8th houses. He did not have a single benefic in either 2nd house or either 8th house. Of the four mercuries ruling birth and conception 2nd houses, only one was in a set with a benefic. Moon co-ruled birth and conception 2nd houses. His lunar sets were: b moon/neptune, b2 moon/mars/uranus, c moon/saturn/pluto, and c2 moon/neptune. None contained a benefic. So, most of his rulers of 2nd and 8th houses did not have any relationship to benefics. Finally, c moon with saturn and pluto was in both 2nd houses. Saturn/pluto suggests extremes of disconnection (in this case, from money).

Mohandas Gandhi
I do not have insider information on Gandhi’s finances during his lifetime. It is generally known that after being a successful lawyer as a young adult he eschewed materialism in favor of simplicity and the spiritual growth he expected that to foster. Surely his 2nd chart should show something about his voluntary “poverty” (at least, not wealth).

Mohandas Gandhi
Partial Harmonic Chart for the 2nd House

Placidus: c11—29Aqu, c12—5Ari, c2—7Gem, c3—1Can b11—5Leo, b12—6Vir, b2—3Sco, b3—3Sag

Sets (1) and (3) show the capacity to bring in money. Set (1), containing B MC/B Asc/venus influences b 8th house because venus rules it. Set (3), with conjunction of venus and the Asc in Taurus falls in b 8th house. With only 8th, and not 2nd, house influence, these two sets may also refer his sharing of resources with those who joined him in his lifestyle experimentation. They may also refer to possible contributions.

Eighth houses, then, are functional, but Gandhi’s 2nd houses are radically afflicted. Set (2) shows moon/saturn/saturn with c saturn ruling C MC (in b 4th house), b saturn ruling b 4th house, and c moon ruling c 4th house. Both saturns are in b 2nd house Saturn is the planet of want and scarcity, so Set (3) suggests poverty from middle age (MC) on to the end of life (multiple 4th house influences.)

Set (4)—NN/moon/saturn—suggests something similar. In it, moon rules c 4th, saturn rules C MC, and the whole set is in b 10th house. Set (4), with its inclusion of NN to moon/saturn (in a 2nd chart, in a 10th house) even suggests growth (NN) through public (10th) espousal of economic simplicity (2nd chart/saturn).

I have not numbered it, but the set in the drawing above in Aries includes NN/mars/pluto, with mars ruling b 2nd house. It is another set which runs counter to the accumulation of money. Aries is interested in “being,” not having (Taurus). Mars/pluto suggests a radical flushing out of income.

Gandhi would have had a hard time had he tried to be wealthy. His spiritual intuition led him to espouse a lifestyle that was consistent with his 2nd chart. By aligning himself with his fate he saved himself the wasted energy of hankering and chasing after money he would not have acquired.

Robert New
Mr. New was the CEO, Chairman of the Board, and founder of an aircraft leasing company. From the data source: “On March 29, 2001 New was aboard one of his own planes flying into Aspen, Colorado when it crashed at 7:02 p.m., killing New. New died shortly after his company went bankrupt.

Robert New
Partial Harmonic Chart for the 2nd House

Placidus: c11—14Aqu, c12—23Pis, c2—2Gem, c3—23Gem b11—26Leo, b12—24Vir, b2—15Sco, b3—18 Sag

The seeds for New’s bankruptcy are shown in Set (1) above. Set (1) contains mercury/(venus)/mars/saturn. B venus rules B Asc and b 8th house, so although it is a benefic, it spreads the influence of this malefic mars/saturn to an Angle. B mars rules b 2nd house. B saturn rules b 4th house. And b mercury co-rules (18 of 33°) b 8th house. So Set (1) is a malefic with influence to an Angle, 2nd, 4th, 8th, and again 8th houses. It suggests his poverty (mars/saturn/2nd chart with Angular, 2nd and 8th house influence) at the end of his life (4th).

I used the date of his crash as the date for looking at his bankruptcy. Below is the damaging progressed set:

Set (2) for 3/29/01b2 mars8 Virgo 05ruler of b 2nd house
pc NN (coming from 11 Gemini 38) 8 Gemini 52
pc2 saturn8 Gemini 27ruler of C MC

Set (2) influences an Angle and 2nd house with its light/mars/saturn. Progressed c2 saturn at 8 Gemini 27 is in 8th/2nd houses and lighted by the node. He also had pb NN at 26 Taurus 12 (coming from 28 Taurus 25 at birth) in the same set with c2 saturn, ruler of C MC, at 26 Taurus 12, giving him another lighted saturn influence to an Angle.

Debbie Reynolds
Quoting from the data source: “…in 1960 she married 20-year-older wealthy shoe baron Harry Karl. A decade later his business failed and she became responsible for some $2 million of his debts. They divorced in 1975. In 1984 she married real estate developer Richard Hamlett who encouraged her to buy a run-down Las Vegas property for $3 million. She turned it into the Debbie Reynolds Hollywood Hotel Casino, putting about $5 million into the renovation. The club opened in August 1993 to the tune of continual business and money woes. …By mid-’97, with her Las Vegas hotel more than $7 million in debt, she filed bankruptcy Chapter 11…Her property went on the auction block in August 1998 and was sold to the World Wrestling Federation for $9 million. Because the bid falls (sic) short of the $11.5 million that Reynolds owed, she is (sic) liable for the shortfall plus facing personal debts up to $100 million, according to her bankruptcy filing. Money has been a difficult issue in her life…”

Debbie Reynolds
Partial Harmonic Chart for the 2nd House

Placidus: c11—17Ari, c12—23Tau, c2—17Can, c3—12Leo b11—14Can, b12—14Leo, b2—9Lib, b3—10Sco

Note there are no benefics on Angles. Set (1) above shows three Angles in the same set with Node/sun/mercury/neptune/uranus/uranus. Sun co-rules (12 of 25°) c 2nd house, neptune rules C MC, mercury rules C Asc, and c uranus co-rules (12 of 25°) c 8th house. Set (1), then, influences all four Angles. It influences all the right houses, but it contains no benefics. Sun/neptune in Gemini suggest many (Gemini) perhaps immature (Gemini) fantastic and idealistic (neptune) financial ideas and practices (2nd chart).

Set (2) shows C Asc in the same set with moon/mars/uranus/pluto. Again, we see an individual with many ideas about money (lighted mars in Gemini conjunct Asc in 2nd chart). But Set (2) lacks the benefics necessary for actual financial accumulation. Set (2) rather suggests covert practices (running a gambling casino? mars/pluto) and/or, as with Gandhi, the tendency to flush the money away as soon as it comes in (again, mars/pluto).

Reynolds does have jupiter in Cancer (where it is exalted) in c 2nd house, but it is not lighted, cutting down on it money-attracting qualities. Venus in Taurus in b 8th house is also well-placed by sign (Taurus rules the 2nd house), and it is lighted by b moon (neither rules an Angle), but to me it suggests money (however impermanent, through venus in Taurus) through marriage and partnerships (in 8th house).

The major progression at the time of Reynolds bankruptcy filing (I used June 15, 1997) was:

Set (3)pc mars23 Virgo 49
pc saturn23 Sagittarius 18Rruler of c 8th house

Set (3) combines with Set (2) above, in which c2 moon rules c 2nd house. Moon increases orb for the progressions to affect C Asc.

Nikola Tesla
From Wikipedia (8/13/07): “Contemporary researchers of Tesla have deemed him ‘the man who invented the twentieth century’ and ‘the patron saint of modern electricity.’ His inventions are so numerous and so outside things familiar to me that I encourage interested readers to scan the Wikipedia article. Several biographies have been written about him.

Here I include only quotes (same source) referencing his financial situation (and a few select items of interest). Individuals curious about Tesla’s 3rd chart (mind) can find my discussion of it in an appendix in the paper on gurus. Therein s/he can see the connection to the Wikipedia statement that “Tesla was influenced by the Vedic philosophy teachings of the Swami Vivekananda.”

Again, from Wikipedia:

”Tesla engaged in reading many works, memorizing complete books. He had a photographic memory (birth sun conjunct venus in Gemini, sun and moon in Gemini are most often associated with a very good memory, and venus in Gemini with a love of learning.”
Tesla died of heart failure alone in the New Yorker Hotel, some time between the evening of January 5 and the morning of January 8, 1943. Despite selling his AC electricity patents, Tesla was essentially destitute and died with significant debts. Later that year the US Supreme Court upheld Tesla’s patent number U.S. Patent 645,576 in effect recognizing him as the inventor of radio.

So, for all he gave the world, Tesla died poor. Let’s see what his 2nd chart shows.

Nikola Tesla
Partial Harmonic Chart for the 2nd House, Set (1)

Placidus: c11—21Sco, c12—10Sag, c2—22Aqu, c3—3Ari b11—17Cap, b12—19Aqu, b2—12Tau, b3—4Gem

Tesla’s lighted jupiter in Pisces, ruler of B MC, in c 2nd house in Set (1) above shows his income earning capacity. Jupiter is well-placed in Pisces. At times—before he either gave away or lost some of his important patents—Tesla appeared wealthy, or at least well off. Sun/venus in Virgo in c 8th house and moon/venus in Scorpio in b 8th house complement his 2nd house earning capacity. Tesla himself believed he would be enormously wealthy because of all his inventions.

Set (2) shows the Tesla’s economic problems. It contains SN/mars/saturn all in Virgo in c 8th house. Saturn rules C Asc (in b 10th house). Mars rules B Asc and b 8th house. He had serious economic (2nd chart) problems (mars/saturn) with joint ventures and joint finances (8th). Set (2) falls on his locality birth MC, at 27 Virgo 31, for New York City, making it, his poverty set, prominent for most of his life in America.

Since Set (2) does not include influence to a 4th house, so I cannot make a case for Tesla’s poverty occurring at the end of his life. His other 4th rulers are only semi-afflicted. I can only state that Set (2) prevented him building up money. Added to his generosity and financial impracticality, it resulted in impoverishment in old age.(?).

I will not cover it here, but Tesla had significant afflictions to his 10th (career) chart, reflective of fluctuations in his career. This method sees more than career and social image in the data in the 10th chart. It also sees the 10th chart as reflective of the individual’s early relationship to his mother. Tesla’s afflicted 10th suggests that although he had a close relationship to his mother, all was not roses. His early relationship with her colored his later career capacity.


Catherine Thompson
Mrs. Thompson was a British astrologer, one of the most prominent in the field in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. She was born into affluence and well educated. At one point in her life, she taught astrology to (American) Evangeline Adams, one of the best-known and most successful astrologers of her time. Thompson’s astrological focus in America was on market forecasting, attracting important business clientele (but the notes do not state how long that went on).

By Christmas of 1934, when Thompson was in her mid-70s, she was in such severe financial trouble she was being evicted from her residence. Shortly thereafter, she had a stroke and died penniless in a pauper’s ward.

We want to look at Thompson’s astrological indications for financial stress at the end of her life.

Catherine Thompson
Partial Harmonic Chart for the 2nd House

Placidus: c11—20Aqu, c12—6Ari, c2—15Gem, c3—2Can b11—30Cap, b12—9Pis, b2—1Gem, b3—18Gem

Set (1) contains a dark malefic with an additional jupiter. It has moon/mars/mars/saturn/jupiter. Moon plus mars in Gemini are in b 2nd house. Saturn is in b 8th house. Saturn rules C MC; jupiter, c 8th house, and b2 moon, b 4th. C mars and b2 mars each rule or co-rule 12th houses. The suggestion is financial (2nd chart) difficulty (mars/saturn with 2nd and 8th influence) late in life (4th). But this set contains jupiter, which would help ameliorate its economic harshness.

Set (2), however, neutralizes jupiter’s goodness and sends this chart back toward poverty. Set (2) contains only one planet—c2 moon in Pisces. C2 moon rules c 4th houses. Moon in Pisces in or ruling a 4th house in a chart about money suggests bleak (Pisces) economic conditions at life’s end (4th).

Set (3) is notable primarily for the fact it places two lighted saturns in c 2nd house and one in c 8th house.

Altogether, Mrs. Thompson has saturn in both 8th houses, saturn in c 2nd house, and mars in b 2nd house. All by themselves, before considering sets and their influence, this is an indication this individual will have a “deprived” (saturn) and worrisome (mars/saturn) economic life.

We want to look at her progression around the time she had her stroke and died. The data source stated she died penniless. Does that show in her 2nd chart? Progressions are for December 25, 1934:

(a) pB Asc12 Cancer 21
pc2 saturn12 Capricorn 32ruler of C MC
pb2 NN12 Cancer 52

Set (a) shows a lighted saturn influence to two Angles.


(b)C MC 21 Capricorn 47
pb2 saturn21 Capricorn 56ruler of B MC

Set (b) shows a lighted saturn influence to two Angles, so with (a) she has progressed lighted saturn influence to three Angles.


(c)pb2 mars2 Aries 59
c2 SN3 Aries 14
pb saturn3 Cancer 05ruler of B MC

Set (c) is a dark malefic, giving her a mars/saturn/Angle influence.


(d)B MC6 Capricorn 09
pb saturn5 Cancer 29ruler of B MC
pC MC6 Aries 17

Set (d) is an all-charts phenomenon. It is not about her financial life, is about her life. Progression of secondary saturn to an Angle is very hard on older individuals, often foreshadowing their death.

(e)c2 moon17 Pisces 05ruler of c 4th house
pc2 SN 17 Pisces 36

Progressed c2 SN activates the implications of c2 moon, discussed above. That is, the bleakness (moon in Pisces) of her finances at the end of her life (4th house).

Did Mrs. Thompson have to end her life in poverty? I only know that her astrology—original plus progressions—strongly suggests that possibility. She did have a positive progressed set at the end of her life:

(f)pC Asc23 Cancer 04
pc venus23 Cancer 35ruler of C Asc and c 6th house
pc jupiter22 Aries 57ruler of c 8th house

Set (f), like Set (d), is an all-charts progression. It is not about her finances. Does it apply to the fact she died in a pauper’s ward and not out on the street? Were they kind to her? Dying in a pauper’s ward may not seem much like the beneficence of jupiter, but to some one functionally impaired faced with dying on the street, it must have seemed a divine gift.

This paper and the earlier one on financial good fortune speak for themselves. Their conclusions are “un-democratic.” Personal finances, like every human condition, are distributed across a “hidden” curve which this astrology exposes. That curve shows relatively few people can be wealthy and some individuals cannot avoid poverty. (Not an earth-shattering conclusion—just look at the history of wealth. What is different this time is that the idea is starting to be substantiated astrologically.)

The same is true of other human attributes. Not every one can be a great artist or poet. In any one generation, few individuals achieve actual spiritual liberation (see paper on gurus). Some people get to live to a ripe old age while others die following a deeply troubled childhood. I have great respect for the achievement of mind and heart in even the least of human beings, but few people have that level of creative genius—a Newton—that breaks through world mind sets. Some individuals find the perfect mate while others find nothing but trouble. [Examples of this uneven distribution of worldly "goodies" can be repeated forever.]

I do buy the notion we are all made in the image of God. Ideally, as the American saying goes, “any one can be anything s/he wants.” As I understand it, there is great potential in all human beings. However, when we incarnate we take on specifications (see paper on Autism). Those specifications, exposed through this astrology, involve limitations as well as talents. Our limitations as well as our talents are functions of the growth interest of our souls. To quote Shakespeare imperfectly, “all the world’s a stage and all the individuals actors on it.” So, being a some body, an any body, necessarily implies curtailment of our godly potential.

This astrology takes away the stretch factor, the unfounded fantasy that the playing field is level. The implications are biblical. We need to cultivate being slow to judge because we could--are even likely to--end up being judged for the same fault. And, since almost no one is or can be self-sufficient, we need, in one way or another, to look after one another. With talents distributed unevenly throughout all mankind, each of us is already the recipient of untold human benefaction.

For a discussion of one example of identity theft, go to the paper listed on the Home Page, "Addendum to Financial Loss: A Case of Identity Theft.

Star Flower, a rare 7-petaled flower
From Wildflowers of Michigan Field Guide, by Stan Tekiela

(1) Since the progressed node is non-harmonic, it actually occurs in all charts, but conditions in his 7th—including the progressed node to moon, show best how an individual is feeling at any one time.

Data Acknowledgments
Data are in order of presentation, which was alphanumeric. Letters following each name show Rodden rating for reliability of birth time.

2789, Financial Loss (C)
Birth: 9/15/1873, 7:00 a.m. LMT, New York, NY. From Astrodatabank by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. From the Astrological Review, January, 1935.
Conception:12/04/1872, 5:58:11 a.m. LMT, New York, NY.

5424, Financial Loss (C)
Birth: 6/25/1921, 7:30 p.m. GDT, 54N00 and 2W00. From Astrodatabank by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Given by him in Dell March, 1982, no place, only longitude and latitude.
Conception:9/16/1920, 8:24:59 p.m. BST, 54N00 and 2W00.

5782, Financial Loss (A)
Birth: 1/21/1924, 3:56 p.m. CST, 44N59 and 94W16. From Astrodatabank by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Given by her in Dell November, 1963.
Conception:4/11/1923, 6:35:25 a.m. CST, 44N59 and 94W16.

Barney Barnato (A)
Birth: 6/12/1852, 7:35 a.m. LMT, London, England. From Astrodatabank by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. NN No. 770 states B.C. for date, time from him.
Conception:9/4/1851, 1:58:58 p.m. LMT, London, England.

Andre-Gustave Citroen (C)
Birth: 2/05/1878, 12:30 a.m. LMT, Paris, France. From Astrodatabank by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Lescault quotes Richez for birth record, Cahiers Astrol 204 (not confirmed).
Conception:4/26/1877, 6:34:00 a.m. LMT, Paris, France.

Dino deLaurentis (AA)
Birth: 8/08/1919, 3:30 a.m. MEDT, Torre Annunziata, Italy. From Astrodatabank by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. B.C. in hand from Steinbrecher.
Conception:10/28/1918, 5:37:35 p.m. MET, Torre Annunziata, Italy.

Gambler 7770 (A)
Birth: 4/9/1936, 8:48 a.m. CST, Chicago, IL. From Astrodatabank by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Rodden quotes him, client 1971.
Conception:7/02/1935, 3:12:42 a.m. CST, Chicago, IL.

Mohandas Gandhi (A)
Birth: 10/02/1869, 7:11 a.m. LMT, Porbandar, India. From Astrodatabank by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Fagan in AFA 3/1948 gives “Shake 1791, Bhadrapad Vadya 12th, three Ghatis and 12 Palas after sunrise, from Yeshawant K Pradhan in “Voice of India, 2/24, confirmed by Ramon, who nonetheless gave 7:56 a.m. IST as his translation.” Much later, in American Astrology 10/1976, Fagan gave 2:29:48 am GMT which equals &:08:12 am LMT in Porbandar.

Various other times were given for around sunrise. Wemyss’ Famous Nativities No. 63 give “one hour, 16 minutes 48 seconds after sunrise.” Notable Nativities No. 242 gives 7:09 am. Huggins gives 7:45 AM in “The Astrology Magazine,” 1/1970. Sabian Symbols No. 367 gives 7:33 AM. Bordoni quotes Barbault for 11:00 am (Thiruvenkatacharya gives 11:00 pm, rectified, in “the Astrology Magazine,” 12/1966).

M.K. Gandhi: An Autobiography,” translated by Mahadev Desai, Penguin, 1982, p. 21 gives the date. Biography by Mike Nicholson, “Mahatma Gandhi,” Exley Publications Ltd., 1987, p. 57-58 gives the date.
Conception:12/20/1868, 3:35:41 p.m. LMT, Porbandar, India.

Robert New (A)
Birth: 1/1/1965, 2:00 a.m. EST, Philadelphia, PA. From Astrodatabank by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Janine Fox quotes his private secretary, when asked to read his chart.
Conception:3/31/1964, 8:11:52 a.m. EST, Philadelphia, PA.

Debbie Reynolds (AA)
Birth: 4/01/1932, 5:49 p.m. MST, El Paso, TX. From Astrodatabank by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Church of Light quotes birth certificate, certified.
Conception:6/24/1931, 6:19:56 a.m. MST, El Paso, TX.

Nikola Tesla (B)
Birth: 7/10/1856, midnight LMT, Smiljan, Yugoslavia. From Astrodatabank by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. John J. O’Neill, The Life of Nikola Tesla, midnight between July 9/10, 1856. O’Neill was a personal friend of Tesla so it may be concluded that he obtained the data directly. He is also reputed to have been born in a thunderstorm.
Conception:10/1/1855, 2:41:37 p.m. LMT, Smiljan, Yugoslavia.

Catherine Thompson (AA)
Birth: 4/10/1858, 6:52 a.m. GMT, London, England. From Astrodatabank by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. From The Sphinx February, 1900, quoting family bible, rectified by W.H. Chaney to 6:52 a.m. Karen Christino quotes old astrology magazines for same, 6:52 a.m.
Conception:7/02/1857, 2:28:21 a.m. GMT, London, England.

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