† KJV †
The bible, by some accounts, was written by men, without any divine insight from Almighty God. Atheist, and other persuasions of course do not believe the bible as divinely sent, and this isn't aimed for their consumption. But rather for Christians, that believe the bible was written by man as opposed to God's Spirit moving men to write.First let's take a logical look at things, with the assumption that you are Christian and believe in God Almighty and Jesus the Christ of Nazareth. Here you have a God, creator of the universe, omnipotent and omnipresent, sustainer of all things, who isn't going to provide us with His word, Himself, but instead will leave this most holy task solely to a very infallible creature such as us?
With these realities in mind, inquiring who composed the bible is a fundamental curiosity that merits earnest examination. The Bible "of course" is a collected of books and epistles written (most Christians agree) by divinely inspired individuals. Many different kinds of men were picked for this monumental endeavor, including everything from shepherds to kings, prophets to tax collectors and most points in between.
The first and foremost thing one must comprehend about who really wrote the bible, is if man did it, all things come into question, even the resurrection of Christ our Lord. And if God inspired it, few things come into question. Now one might ask, well if God inspired men to write it, why would any of it come into question. And this is covered in one term. "Stumbling Blocks." We know God uses them, as the bible shows, question is would He let them slip into the word? We will cover that term in a bit, but for now, let us see who the bible claims wrote the bible.
2Tim 3:15-17 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2Pete 1:19-20 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Luke 1:70 As He spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Isaiah 29:24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
Isaiah 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
Psalms 56:8 Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book?
1Peter 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Acts 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
1 Corinitains 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
2Thessalonians 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
1 Thessalonians 2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
James 1:21-23 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Okay, now by those verses and loads more, clearly the bible declares God inspired men to write, and directed them as to what to write. It refers to the bible as. . . the holy scriptures, inspiration of God, book of the LORD, word of the Lord, word of God, gospel of peace, gospel of God, the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls and that God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
So that is pretty much settled if you believe in the bible, you believe it is all those things. Now if it is from God, why so many mistakes, if there be any? Why so many contradictions if there be any? Now we are back to the simple term stumbling blocks and if God uses them in the word?
Let's look at it this way. God is of faith, and will have us believe in Him on faith alone. Now if He produced a all perfect, all knowing, without doubt to anyone, book, mankind would know there is a God, because they would have His divine writings without doubt. God won't have this.
Let's, make a new law. Let's say no more chocolate chip cookies. Make a inflexible penalty to the breaking of that law, such as 20 years demanding labor. Now place 100 cookies on a table in front of 100 people and a police officer at the head of the table. Chances are, only one or two are going to eat their cookie in total defiance of the law and the authority. Now take the cop out of the room. Take the cookies away, send everyone home BUT keep the law intact. Now how many more are going to eat a chocolate chip cookie?
If Father made His existence clear cut, there would be little to no free will to chose good or evil. BUT yet Father needs to provide His creation with some guidelines as to how to conduct ones self, after He has made a choice to follow righteousness. So He inspires men to write, JUST what He wants, including some stumbling blocks so that there is no clear cut evidence by sight, He is.
God works in mysterious ways, and we mortals can't comprehend all the ways of God. The flood was given as an example of what mankind becomes without God, lovers of Evil. Next we come to the term stumbling block... has God used stumbling blocks in the past. And if so what makes you think he doesn't use them in the word now. Has the flood story become a stumbling block for you? If so, it has served it's purpose well.
Next one doesn't believe in God because of the bible, the flood, or Sodom being destroyed, but the other way around. We believe in the bible because of God, knowing He is our Father in heaven, and has sent us the word, to be believed on by faith. A faith only God can instill in us, and will, through prayer and seeking His will. So if one believes in the flood, its not because its logical to mankind, its only to be believed on by those of the Holy Spirit.
Irrespective of their complicated variations in style and writing, and immense time periods, the books of the Bible agree phenomenally well in composition, details and validations. Mankind couldn't feasible have devised something so intricate without MAJOR inconstancy over a 1,500 year time span.
And again look at the last three verses of the bible, a warning to all those that change what words are written. There would be no need for these warnings if the problem wasn't going to arise. So if there is a God, why would He let a few things be changed in the word? Back to the phrase stumbling blocks, and we know Father uses them, hence Satan. And its clear, some are not meant to hear the word, why would God not want some to understand?
Why would God use stumbling blocks to trip some up? The word clearly shows He does, but why? Why would God do that to some people? Perhaps He looks at the heart and soul, the essence of mankind, and gives them what they want? Some want God, and some don't, that's clear, what is also clear to me at least is some say they want God, and do not, not as He presents Himself in the word.
Here are some of the verses that backup this doctrine and position on stumbling blocks.
1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.1 Corinitains 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.Romans 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Isaiah 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Ezekiel 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Jeremiah 6:21 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will lay stumblingblocks before this people, and the fathers and the sons together shall fall upon them; the neighbour and his friend shall perish.
Proverbs 4:19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.
Jeremiah 13:16 Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness.
Mathew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.Luke 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.2 Corinitains 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Clearly by those verses, Father is hiding the truth from some. Those that do not want Him. Now if He didn't enclude "stumbling blocks" in the bible, then without doubt, one would know God is, and turn to Him, not out of love or wanting, or faith, but out of sight. God will not have this. For more on this subject please visit my pages on "Faith" and "The Quickening" which go into detail on parallel tenets of the word. Also another way to differentiate if the bible is mans work or God Almighty's is to see if claimed prophecies come true. This is covered in "Prophecies Come True!" )
Now let us take a look at what the Holy Spirit inspired many to write and proclaim about straying from engrafted word of God.Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Titus 1:10-16 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Titus 3:9-11 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
Now so clearly to most, all those verses thus far show the bible is the Inspired Word of God, and it's, thus why it claims it is a very dangerous and grave thing to leave it for another. But what about interrupting the Word of God? Don't we need someone to show us what the meaning of the word is in places. Yes, of course, and Father has provided this means as well, through the Holy Spirit.James 1:5-6 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 Corinitains 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
We should take in what each man preachers, and compared it to the Inspired Word of God, and pray on it, with the Holy Spirit showing us and giving us understand as to the truth of it. I'm not saying to stop going to church, lsitening to sermon, and sunday school. What I am sayng is take what you hear, and then compare.
BUT WHICH BIBLE SHOULD ONE USE? HOW CAN ONE BE SURE THAT GOD HAS PROVIDED HIM THE CORRECT VERSION? “Formal Equivalence” (word for word vs meaning-based or Dynamic Equivalence) is the term which describes the more cautious approach to biblical translation, and translations (NASB, KJV YLT Tyndale, Coverdale, Geneva, Bishops, RKJV) because the translators sincerely searches for a “target language word” that most intimately aligns with each manuscript word in the most unambiguous sense.
If an original Greek sentence or word format states “Este Theos” then literal translators should render the sentence as close to the original root words used, but within the context of the whole of the bible. Now there, the literal rendering would be “are gods” i.e. John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
(Este/1. second person plural of "to be" AND Theos/1. a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities.)Now of course Theos has more then one meaning, so how does the translator know how to render the translation. First by looking at the other definitions, to see if one possibly fits, and without context of course just about anyone of them will.
2. the Godhead, trinity.
3. spoken of the only and true God a. refers to the things of God b. his counsels, interests, things due to him
4. whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way a. God's representative or viceregent 1. of magistrates and judges.Now we know Jesus isn’t saying the OT scripture calls others 2. the Godhead, trinity, because of total bible context. To suggest that Christ is saying scripture calls everyone God as in Jehovah would of course be out of bible context as a whole since Jersus #1 is point to old scripture and #2 since there is only one Almighty God.”
But it can and perhaps refers to them as 3. spoken of the only and true God a. refers to the things of God b. his counsels, interests, things due to him OR . . 4. whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way a. God's representative or viceregent 1. of magistrates and judges.
Perhaps?
And to establish which is adequate one has to look total bible content context.
Lets look at total bible context in this matter to see what Jesus means by “Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?”
Here is the context around this particular verse.
John 10:30-36 I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Now it would indeed seem that Jesus is saying that the law does proclaim those that adhere to it, to be gods of some sort. But also signifies this same claim in the OT as well, and the only place this saying can be found is Psalms 82.
Psalms 82:1-8 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Let us take a look at verse 1. . . God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
The translation of God here, is from the word, “'elohiym'“ in both cases. So of course one is going to have to be rendered one things and the second, another.
And here are the definintions of God “'elohiym – strongs word 0430”
1.(plural)
a. rulers, judges2. (plural intensive - singular meaning)
b. divine ones
c. angels
d. gods
a. god, goddess
b. godlike one
c. works or special possessions of God
d. the (true) God
e. GodNow it should be clear to anyone that is a servant of God, that “God ('elohiym – strongs word 0430) standeth in the congregation of the mighty:” should be rendered as “2. e. God” , because it clearly is talking of the Supreme Judge of all things, which is God. But how shall we render; he judgeth among the gods ('elohiym – strongs word 0430).” ?
Well that could be rendered as judges of course and indeed, is in some translations it is.
Now lets move onto the next time god is used. Psalms 82:6 “I have said, Ye are gods ('elohiym – strongs word 0430) ; and all of you are children of the most High.”
Now here is where "total bible contextual philosophy" comes into play, because one could render that into just about any of the above without the whole bible taken into concept and context. Now one blessed with a "contextual theological education" must also understand that his own perceptions of what the scripture says can have a negitive effect on proper translation as well, because even uncosciencely one can put for his own ideologoly instead of what is really written. This is why “Formal Equivalence” is the best method when translating anything, because until a redering comes into question because of "total bible contextual philosophy", the translator renders it to it's formal equivalence. Take the verse above. ('elohiym – strongs word 0430) ; could be translated as . . . . rulers, judges, divine ones, angels, gods, goddess, godlike one. . . . so to better translate the intent of the original text we need to look elsewhere, or take a guess. Lets look elsewhere within the whole philosophy of the text first, which of course would bring us right back to what Jesus said about the psalm.
John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?Here within "total bible contextual philosophy" you have Jesus directly calling the psalm into remeberance and pointing out that the law does indeed call the children of God, gods. Because it is the jews that claim first, Jesus is calling himself God, and Jesus comes back with, well the law says the children of God are gods doesn’t it?, which brings full credence to the psalm. Jesus is in fact vindicating and validating the psalm. NOW before you Christians start to get all highminded, and think this is something to be proud of, it is only by grace one becomes a child of God.
Now of course some are going to claim that God isn’t talking of us as gods, but rather judges, and we are to judge fair and openly on the earth, but we know this isn’t the case as the verse goes on to say, you will die like men. . . then says we will rise and judge the earth. AND of course that is who judges the earth, is the saints of Christ. Bringing even more validity to it as well.
Now are we gods are in the mormon sense, of course not, no where does it state anything else about this title of gods, bestowed upon the children of God, but in the psalm and Jesus bringing it into remembrance. Where the mormons get anything else about it from, I do not know.
In the end, for me, the “Formal Equivalence” type versions are the best to study from. The NASB, KJV YLT or like versions.
WE ARE WARNED THAT OTHERS, FALSE ONE WOULD COME AND TRY TO SEDUCE US FROM THE WORDS OF THE LORD, SO WHY BE SHOCKED WHEN THEY COME? HANDLE THEM AS THE WORD PRESCRIBES. Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Titus 3:10-11 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
Galations 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
2 Peter 3:3-4 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
Jude 1:17-19 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
1 Tim 4:1-2 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
2 Tim 4:1-2 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
2 Tim4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2 Thess 2:1-2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Jeremiah 8:9 The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?
2 Tim 3:1-2 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2 Tim 3:3-4 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2 Tim 3:6-8 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2 Tim 3:9-11 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2 Tim 3:12-14 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2 Tim 3:15-17 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Peter 2:1-2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
A DEBATE ON THE SUBJECT MATTER WITH MOBIC, A PROFESSED CHRISTIAN. Session Start: Wed Aug 24 03:04:19 2005
Session Ident: #christiandebate
[03:04] *** Now talking in #christiandebate
[03:04] *** Set by ChuckWagon on Sun Aug 21 23:07:34
[03:04] #christiandebate url is http://www.christiandebate.net
[03:04] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o KingJehu
[03:04] *** Set by ChuckWagon on Sun Aug 21 23:07:34[KingJehu] you have a God, creator of the universe, omnipotent and omnipresent, sustainer of all things, who isn't going to provide us with His word, Himself, but instead will leave this most holy task solely to a very infallible creature such as us?
[mobic] KingJehu it would seem so now wouldn't it? since there were no manuscripts that materialized by them selves.....or if Jesus is God , he also didnt write anything that got published...
[KingJehu] 2Tim 3:15-17 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
[KingJehu] 2Pete 1:19-20 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
[KingJehu] _ but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
[KingJehu] no it would not seem so
[mobic] thats a locking clause that any one can write
[KingJehu] mobic, doesnt matter
[KingJehu] it doesnt seem so by that
[KingJehu] does it
[KingJehu] you said it seemed so
[KingJehu] well again
[KingJehu] WRONG
[KingJehu] Luke 1:70 As He spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
[mobic] KingJehu yes it still would seem so since it was men that wrote that... and Jesus if God didnt write
[KingJehu] doesnt seem so matahatiku
[KingJehu] not by the bible we are talking about
[KingJehu] just because you have no faith doesnt mean others dont
[KingJehu] Isaiah 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
[KingJehu] Psalms 56:8 Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book?
[KingJehu] who's book?
[mobic] KingJehu men wrote it...
[mobic] the men who wrote it claim that its the lords book
[KingJehu] James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
[KingJehu] James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
[KingJehu] James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[KingJehu] _ the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls . . . .
[KingJehu] mobic
[KingJehu] yes men can write things to save souls
[KingJehu] right
[mobic] KingJehu again men wrote that.... its possible they were inspired... but the fact remains it was human that wrote it
[KingJehu] 2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[KingJehu] 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[KingJehu] 2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
[mobic] KingJehu the manuscripts just ddint show up...
[mobic] they were written
[KingJehu] _ All scripture is given by inspiration of God
[mobic] inspriration not dictation
[KingJehu] _ but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
[KingJehu] :)
[mobic] yes inspiration again
[KingJehu] so with that, we are done :) we agree to disagree
[mobic] men wrote that
[KingJehu] _ moved by the Holy Ghost
[KingJehu] The first and foremost thing one must comprehend about who really wrote the bible, is if man did it, all things come into question, even the resurrection of Christ our Lord. And if God inspired it, few things come into question.
[mobic] moved a synonym of inspired
[KingJehu] says you
[KingJehu] thats not what that says
[mobic] check any thesarsus
[KingJehu] so then the whole bible was written by man mobic?
[KingJehu] with no insight as to what to write by God?
[KingJehu] is that you take?
[KingJehu] ?
[mobic] yup the whole bible was wrtten by humans
[KingJehu] so then how the heck do you know any of it is true
[KingJehu] it could all just be one big lie huh mobic
[KingJehu] even Christ
[KingJehu] right
[mobic] KingJehu how do you know anything of men is true?
[KingJehu] I mean if God had no part in it at all, heck there might not even be a God huh mobic?
[KingJehu] no Jesus
[KingJehu] right?
[KingJehu] right mobic, thats what I'm saying, this is what you think, that man wrote it, so by that thinking, man could have been lying and there is no Jesus huh?
[mobic] KingJehu you are the one taking that road... i am not... you seem to have a problem of the bible not being perfect... i dont...
[KingJehu] right mobic
[KingJehu] Jesus might be a lie
[KingJehu] right?
[mobic] KingJehu that is your take not mind
[mobic] mine
[KingJehu] no thats yours
[KingJehu] because after all man wrote it
[mobic] KingJehu no its notscripture is a beginning to the spiritual world. learn how to enter it seach and seach . seach for god search for the thruth
[KingJehu] and man can lie
[KingJehu] sure its YOUR take, you dont know if anything in that bible is true mobic
[KingJehu] because you say man wrote it all
[KingJehu] look you even saidn it
[mobic] you are trying to make it mine and that all yours, baby
[KingJehu] [mobic] yup the whole bible was wrtten by humans <---------- they all could have been lying then
[mobic] man did write it all
[mobic] KingJehu i nev er said they could be lying...you are saying that
[mobic] that is your take not mine
[KingJehu] :P face it, you cant say anything in that bible is truth mobic, man wrote it by your account and could have been lying. . .
[KingJehu] [mobic] KingJehu how do you know anything of men is true? <----------- SEE
[KingJehu] :P
[KingJehu] well, i have proven my point
[mobic] KingJehu again that is your take.... i dont hold your belief on that
[KingJehu] you wrote that
[KingJehu] [mobic] KingJehu how do you know anything of men is true? <----------- SEE
[KingJehu] you wrote that not me
[KingJehu] those are your words
[mobic] KingJehu lol you are equivocating...
[KingJehu] not at all, i asked you, how can you know its true if man wrote it and that was your reponce. . . .
[KingJehu] scroll up
[KingJehu] so by that, then the whole bible couldbe a lie huh?
[mobic] you are afraid thatr if men wroite the bible that its all a lie... then i asked you are every ting men write a lie?
[mobic] how woule you tell?
[mobic] and i am paraphraising
[mobic] so you are making it a lie not me ??
[mobic] men wrote it that is a fact....
[KingJehu] [mobic] the men who wrote it claim that its the lords book <------- so its not the lords book. . . .
[KingJehu] [KingJehu] so then the whole bible was written by man mobic? with no insight as to what to write by God? is that you take? [mobic] yup the whole bible was wrtten by humans [KingJehu] so then how the heck do you know any of it is true it could all just be one big lie huh mobic even Christ right? [mobic] KingJehu how do you know anything of men is true?
[mobic] they claim it is...
[KingJehu] and by that, you admit you dont know if the stories about jesus are even true mobic
[KingJehu] right
[KingJehu] they claim Jesus was real
[KingJehu] huh
[KingJehu] BUT you cant be sure
[mobic] KingJehu you like to try to think for me dont you?
[KingJehu] because it was written by men
[KingJehu] by the way this is going on the site
[KingJehu] every last bit
[mobic] you really have a hard time wiht inspiration and dictation
[mobic] the whole of the bible was wrtten by men...that is a fact
[KingJehu] mobic, well, we'll just put it all on the site and let others read and decide, K :)
[KingJehu] as for now, its just going round and round
[KingJehu] its clear by the debate were we both stand, if you would like to add a bit more, here is your chance
[mobic] now is it inspired by God ...no doubt... God was very much on their minds when they wrote.... did they get it all correct? that is debatable... after all they were only human
[KingJehu] right so Jesus could be a lie
[KingJehu] after all man wrote it
[KingJehu] thats your stance
[mobic] KingJehu that is your take not minetell me who pubhlised bibble ?? for the first time
[mobic] no that is your stance
[KingJehu] thats just what you said
[mobic] never has it been mine
[mobic] no i did not
[KingJehu] well, as i said, anyone that reads it can make up their mind on it mobic
[KingJehu] so anything else?
[mobic] KingJehu read what?
[KingJehu] this debate
[KingJehu] <[KingJehu] because it was written by men
[KingJehu] [KingJehu] by the way this is going on the site
[KingJehu] [KingJehu] every last bit
[mobic] this is not a debate this is you trying to put say that i am saying your ideas when i am not
[mobic] what site?
[KingJehu] well, as i said, anyone reading it can make up their own mind as to who was doing what
[KingJehu] my site, dont worry only get llike 19 hits a day
[mobic] KingJehu well then you better put it all ...encluding where i deny you thinking what i am saying
[KingJehu] [KingJehu] every last bit
[KingJehu] its like three lines above you
[mobic] KingJehu has it ever occured to you why it was Jesus never did write when he had the chance?
[KingJehu] mobic, i sure do, do you?
[ThyWillBeDone] ---->> [mobic] now is it inspired by God ...no doubt... God was very much on their minds when they wrote.... did they get it all correct? that is debatable... after all they were only human
[mobic] KingJehu why didnt Jesus write then?
[KingJehu] mobic, you asked me if I knew, I answered, "yes" then ask you if you know and you ask me another question first, before answering. . . . I answered yours now answer mine, and since you like to go out of turn, explain your answer as well. . . .
[mobic] i asked the question first
[KingJehu] and i said "yes" i do
[KingJehu] i answered
[mobic] then explain please
[KingJehu] you didnt ask me to explain it
[KingJehu] well, i asked you to first
[KingJehu] lol
[KingJehu] since you liked to use that
[KingJehu] :P
[ThyWillBeDone] mobic, why should jesus write about himself. pride is mans sinful nature
[KingJehu] I know the answer, i just dont want you to try and say you did to, the answer is in fact written down. . . .
[mobic] ok if Jesus is God.... then writing anything would be in danger as being woshiped instead of the message...
[KingJehu] so why didnt Jesus write it?
[ThyWillBeDone] mobic, no one has disputed the bible being written by man, holy men of god being guided by the holy spirit
[mobic] ThyWillBeDone king was disputing it
[KingJehu] mobic, no. . . . the answer is. . . kjv John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. <---------- God bearth the witness of Christ. . . . and who He is and was, HENCE God had men write what God wanted them to write. . . .
[KingJehu] thats the answer. . . which you didnt know
[mobic] KingJehu which means?
[KingJehu] mobic, which means God had men write JUST what God wanted them to write
[ThyWillBeDone] mobic, jesus is the word and holy men of god write down the word.
[mobic] there is more to it.... the bit of Jesus saying about bearing witnees to him self and God him... what does that mean?
[ThyWillBeDone] mobic, i dont think king is disputing the books being written by man and inspired by god
[mobic] ThyWillBeDone scroll up he sure did....
[KingJehu] John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
[KingJehu] John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
[KingJehu] John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
[KingJehu] John 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
[KingJehu] John 5:33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
[KingJehu][KingJehu] John 5:35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
[mobic] he said if man wrote them then it could all be a lie
[KingJehu] Of course that can all be false huh mobic
[KingJehu] i mean it could all be a big ole lie
[mobic] see?
[KingJehu] because man wrote it
[mobic] he's doing it again
[KingJehu] all on his own
[mobic] that is his idea not mine
[KingJehu] no insight as to what to write at all
[KingJehu] scroll up
[KingJehu] thats what you claimed
[mobic] he want them so despartly to be mines but that is not true
[Rounin][ThyWillBeDone] mobic, no KingJehu isn't disputing -
[KingJehu] mobic, which means God had men write JUST what God wanted them to write
[mobic] KingJehu dont lie i never claim it was a lie you do
[KingJehu] GOD had no part, thats what you said at first, till you found out this was going on the web page, then you want to say he had a little hand in it, lol
[mobic] show me saying that
[KingJehu] [KingJehu] 2Pete 1:19-20 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
[KingJehu] [KingJehu] but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
[KingJehu] [KingJehu] no it would not seem so
[KingJehu] [mobic] thats a locking clause
[KingJehu] anyone can write anything else in the bible as well then
[KingJehu] this sure isnt looking good for you mobic
[Rounin] You didn't show him saying that
[ThyWillBeDone] mobic, you are comparing man to holy men of god as equal
[Rounin] You pasted 3 things that you said yourself
[mobic] KingJehu you still have not me saying it was a lie
[mobic] ThyWillBeDone holy men and men they are still men
[Rounin] What is a "locking clause" anyway?
[ThyWillBeDone] mobic, holy men of god were inspired by the holy spirit to write gods word down. they were not writting of there own, but writting by inspiration
[KingJehu] [mobic] the men who wrote it claim that its the lords book <--------- so if they can write a lie in it like "the lords book" then they could be lying about everyting else as well. . . it just stands to reason, i mean how can they lie here, and here and here and here, and then you say "well this part isnt a lie" IT all could be a lie huh
[mobic] ThyWillBeDone inspired not dictated
[mobic] KingJehu men did not write that?
[ThyWillBeDone] [KingJehu] i mean it could all be a big ole lie [KingJehu] because man wrote it - mobic, KingJehu is being sarcastic because you said it was written by man and man lies
[KingJehu] [mobic] yes inspiration again [mobic] men wrote that <------- by that it was men that wrote it was inspiration. .. they could have been dead wrong, [mobic] yup the whole bible was wrtten by humans [mobic] KingJehu how do you know anything of men is true?
[mobic] [KingJehu]GOD had no part, thats what you said at first, till you found out this was going on the web page, then you want to say he had a little hand in it, lol <-------- show where i said that....this is not looking good for you KingJehu
[KingJehu] mobic, look, its simple, you have already said that it all could be wrong, right?
[KingJehu] i mean man wrote it so it all could be wrongyes, man can be wrong
[KingJehu] God had no part in it so why believe any of it?
[StMichael] but men inspired by the Holy Spirit cannot be wrong
[StMichael]God has part in it
[StMichael] God inspired it, God breathed it into man
[KingJehu] StMichael, not according to mobic
[KingJehu] men wrote it
[StMichael] and man wrote it down
[KingJehu] and they have got many things in it wrong
[KingJehu] many things
[mobic] KingJehu see you took my question of anything of what men write as making the whoile bible false... i am of the trust thaqt men do right things that are true... but they aren always perfect
[KingJehu] so why couldnt it all just be false mobic?
[StMichael] man wrote it, both man and God had parts in it
[StMichael] the bible is synergistic
[KingJehu] IF some of the bible is false mobic, then why couldnt all of it be?
[KingJehu] simple question
[mobic] i was asking how you can fine anything of mens writing to be true...asking you?
[KingJehu] IF some of the bible is false mobic, then why couldnt all of it be?
[KingJehu] its a VERY simple question
[mobic] KingJehu in any library is every thing written true?
[KingJehu] see
[KingJehu] you wont even answer that simple question
[KingJehu] i'll ask one more time
[KingJehu] IF some of the bible is false mobic, then why couldnt all of it be?
[ThyWillBeDone]
[mobic] ThyWillBeDone inspired not dictated - told what to write is dictated. they were inspired by god to write down his word but god still guided there hands
[mobic] i dont throw out the whole library because there were things untrue in it...do you?
[KingJehu] lol
[KingJehu] right well we arent talking about that'
[KingJehu] we are talking about one bible
[mobic] we are
[KingJehu] no we arent
[mobic] the bible means library
[KingJehu] we are talking about the bible
[KingJehu] now answer the question
[KingJehu] IF some of the bible is false mobic, then why couldnt all of it be?
[mobic] the bible means collection of books and that is what a library is
[KingJehu] answer the questionevery written mind of men are fallible
[mobic] if so then if something in aq library is false the whole libraqry falese? that is your claim
[KingJehu] IF some of the bible is false mobic, then why couldnt all of it be?
[StMichael] but every written mind of God are infallible
[StMichael] kingjehu is saying that if some of the library are false, then all of them can also be false
[mobic] if so then if something in a library is false the whole library falese? that is your claim
[StMichael] not that all of them must be false
[KingJehu] mobic, it could be, depending on the library. . . now i answered yours now you mine
[KingJehu] IF some of the bible is false mobic, then why couldnt all of it be?
[mobic] see KingJehu you trying to make all are none in the bible and library is the same thing
[StMichael] in any case, he means that libraries containing human thoughts are not infallible
[KingJehu] WELL this debate just ended MOBIC will not answer
[KingJehu] END DEBATE HERE, CUT AND PASTE
[mobic] if any untruth in a library make the whole of the library untrue?
[mobic] KingJehu no the whole of the bible is not untrue if there are some part that is
[mobic] i see the bible as like any library
[mobic] it always amazes me how you like to throw the baby out with the bath water, KingJehu
[KingJehu] mobic we are done, the debate ended long ago save it
[mobic] i hope you never find a false saying in the bible ...or you faith will crash completely
[KingJehu] The first and foremost thing one must comprehend about who really wrote the bible, is if man did it, all things come into question, even the resurrection of Christ our Lord. And if God inspired it, few things come into question. Now one might ask, well if God inspired men to write it, why would any of it come into question. And this is covered in one term. "Stumbling Blocks." We know God uses them, as the bible shows, question is would He let them slip into the word? We will cover that term in a bit, but for now, let us see who the bible claims wrote the bible.
[KingJehu] save it mobic, thats already covered on the very page that debate above will be on. . . .
[KingJehu] so nice try, but we'll let the readers decide
[mobic] KingJehu it is a fact that men wrote it...was it inspired ? no doubt it was... god was formost on their mind... is it perfect... no only God is perfect
[KingJehu] kjv 2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
[KingJehu] heh
[mobic] maybe... sounds conditional ...what are the conditions?
[KingJehu] that you believe God had men write just what God wanted them to write. . . .
[KingJehu] 2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[KingJehu] 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[KingJehu] 2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
[mobic] inspiration does not mean dictation no matter how you wish it to be....
[KingJehu] How can the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works by scripture if man alone wrote it without any direct intervention by God as to write just what He wanted men to write.
[mobic] only God is perfect men are not
[KingJehu] whats that say?
[mobic] men are not perfect
[KingJehu] Mathew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
[KingJehu] Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
[KingJehu] we are man perfect through Christ
[mobic] notice the big word IF
[KingJehu] made
[KingJehu] _ kjv Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
[mobic] KingJehu has a problem with me...
[KingJehu] thats a lie too mobic?
[KingJehu] _ Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations. . . .
[mobic] no man is perfect not even Noah... notice he got drunk later
[KingJehu] SO then the stuff about Jesus could be a lie as well
[KingJehu] ha!
[mobic] so say you , KingJehu not me
[KingJehu] whjy not
[KingJehu] if it lies about all these other things
[mobic] that is your belief not mine
[KingJehu] then why not about Jesus
[mobic] who say iyts a lie but you?
[KingJehu] SO then everything it says about Jesus is truth?
[KingJehu] oh so Noah was perfect
[KingJehu] and you are wrong, men can be perfect
[KingJehu] :P
[mobic] KingJehu i dont know... if its all true...
[KingJehu] k
[mobic] KingJehu no only God is perfect
[KingJehu] well, as i said, we just going round and round
[KingJehu] Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
[mobic] Epstein the forgiveness is in the reality that no one is perfect... its why tehy make erasers on pencils
[JewsforJudaism] KingJehu: some people interpret that as a kind of left-handed compliment. Noah was perfect "in his generation"...in other words, compared to the losers of his generation, Noah was perfect...but objectively, he wasn't actually perfect...he 'walked with G-d' because he needed G-d's constant support so as not to stumble.
[KingJehu] Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
[KingJehu] Poor Abe didnt have a chance
[KingJehu] God told Him to go do somehting He couldnt ever do
[KingJehu] why would God mess with Abe like that mobic?
[mobic] KingJehu you well he did ask him to take his son to sacrifice...swo you tell me why he would mess with him like that?
[KingJehu] JewsforJudaism. . . he needed G-d's constant support so as not to stumble <------- and that what I said all along, it is through God we are made perfect
[KingJehu] no one said it was of our own JewsforJudaism :)
[KingJehu] mobic, how do you know that story is true in the bible?
[mobic] i dont...
[KingJehu] that could be false as well, men wrote it. . .
[KingJehu] so then how do you know the story of Jesus is true?
[mobic] coorect it could be just a tale
[KingJehu] same with jesus too then huh
[mobic] KingJehu again its doesnt mean its a lie either
[KingJehu] BUT it could be
[KingJehu] right
[KingJehu] and same with the story of Jesus
[mobic] you always take it to the extreme as being a lie or truth...
[KingJehu] just like Abe you dont know if that story about Jesus is true too, correct?
[KingJehu] it might be, like abes might be
[mobic] KingJehu i dont know if the history alexander is true...
[KingJehu] or it might not be true, likes abes might not be
[KingJehu] correct
[KingJehu] right
[mobic] i dotn have many reasons for it not to be true...
[KingJehu] or to be true
[KingJehu] either way
[KingJehu] just like with abe
[mobic] KingJehu the life story of Jesus sounds very true ...the ressurection? well i need to see that
[KingJehu] it might be false and it might not be false about abe and likewise goes with Jesus right mobic?
[mobic] KingJehu the life story of Jesus sounds very true ...the ressurection? well i need to see that
[KingJehu] really?
[mobic] yes really
[russelam]if jesus could raise lazarus i daresay he could raise himself as well
[KingJehu] Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[KingJehu] Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[KingJehu] Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[KingJehu] Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[KingJehu] Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[russelam]no idea
[KingJehu] and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved . . . . SO you not sure this ressurection happened huh mobic?
[mobic] russelam was lazurus really dead or in some shallow breathing coma? idont know....
[russelam]i think he was pretty much dead
[mobic] KingJehu just because paul beleive doesnt mean i have too
[mobic] have to
[mobic] russelam perhaps... i would need to see it
[KingJehu] Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. <=========== SO MOBIC, in your heart, you can not say for sure, that you know God has raised Jesus from the dead. . . i.e. the ressurection.
[russelam]well his coffin reeked
[russelam]well the cave
[russelam]and his family were wailing as they do
[mobic] KingJehu of what of what i wrote dont you understand?
[russelam] jews are seems have wailing down to a fine art, hehe
[KingJehu] well you didnt come right out and say it after i asked it though
[KingJehu] so i wanted to make sure before i assumed mobic
[mobic] KingJehu the life story of Jesus sounds very true ...the ressurection? well i need to see that
[mobic] there once agaIn
[KingJehu] i mean it wouldnt be very nice of me to "think" thats what you meant so why not just answer it K. . .. so I'll know.
[mobic] thats never stopped you before
[KingJehu] Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. <=========== SO MOBIC, in your heart, you can not say for sure, that you know God has raised Jesus from the dead. . . i.e. the ressurection.
[russelam]there are a lot of things that are kind of hard to believe
[russelam]like walking on water
[mobic] russelam could be skiing
[russelam] hehe
[mobic] :)
[mobic] if one had never seen that what would they call it?
[russelam] certainly wouldnt call it walking on water
[russelam] lol
[04:53] END OF THE SESSION.
New blast for 'Bible Code Bombshell'! Mathematics expert, ex-skeptic helps prove God's authorship.
The Holy Bible, the best-selling book of all time, was not written by man, but by God himself.
Such is the conclusion not of some overzealous sky pilot, but a mathematics expert who sought to disprove the existence of any hidden messages concealed in Scripture. More...
The affirmations in the Word of God on the matter of. . .
INDEX PAGE
HOME
Visit #ChristianWarrior Homepage.
Visit Our Message Board
Check'out da Guestbook
Sign'da Guestbook
