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Wednesday, 28 September 2005
WE DID IT!! The IFC Has Been Removed from Ground Zero!
Topic: 9/11

This just in from

Dear Dan,

We are very pleased to announce that Governor Pataki has announced the removal of the International Freedom Center (IFC) from Ground Zero. See for details.

Every since June 8, 2005 when Debra Bulingame's op-ed, The Great Ground Zero Heist, appeared in the Wall Street Journal, we have fought together for the preservation of the dignity of Ground Zero. With your help, we have achieved a major victory toward that goal.

We will continue to monitor the plans for Ground Zero to ensure that a fitting and proper memorial is built; one that is respectful of the victims murdered that day, their families, the first responders, and the American people.

A press release on the removal of the IFC from the 15 family member groups is expected in the next 24 hours and we will post it as soon as it becomes available.

Thank you again for your support, prayers, and dedication. We simply could not have done this without you.


Robert D. Shurbet
Founder/Web Master


Posted by ky/kentuckydan at 11:02 PM CDT
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Updated: Sunday, 3 June 2007 7:26 AM CDT
Saturday, 24 September 2005
I am on the same side as Hilary Clinton?
Topic: 9/11
Got another email from our friends and neighbors at

I have to be honest folks, ANY ally in this struggle is welcome aid, but when I read the first line of the following my reaction, WAS a startled.

I'm on the same side as Hilary Clinton?

But its really a good sign, I mean if the US Senator whose helicopter in Afghanistan,when she did a tour of the country, was given the nickname buy the troops, "Broom Stick One" I mean if SHE is opposing a Leftist Cause, it must have overwhelming opposition in the Country.

At the Time of this post, 10:20 PM CDT Saturday 24,2005 here are the results so far of the Newsday poll.

Yes, it will be a learning tool. (274 responses)

No, the site should be used as a memorial only. (12469 responses)

Not sure. (143 responses)

12886 total responses

We can do better folks, spread the word.

Speaking of word here is the word from the New York Post and Take Back the Memorial dot Org on Hillary Clinton's Position.




WASHINGTON - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton yesterday dealt a crushing blow to the International Freedom Center planned for Ground Zero, saying she wants the project canned for failing to listen to the 9/11 families.

"I cannot support the IFC," Clinton declared last night in a strongly worded statement in response to an inquiry from The Post.

Her tough comments are Clinton's first significant remarks about the controversy raging at Ground Zero over the Freedom Center, which 9/11 families and other critics fear will become a center of anti-Americanism.

"While I want to ensure that development and rebuilding in lower Manhattan move forward expeditiously, I am troubled by the serious concerns family members and first responders have expressed to me," Clinton said.

"The LMDC [Lower Manhattan Development Corp.] has authority over the site and I do not believe we can move forward until it heeds and addresses their concerns."

The family members of victims, as well as unions representing the city's cops and firefighters, want nothing less than the Freedom Center being booted from Ground Zero.

Given her influence, Clinton's hard line could spell doom for the Freedom Center's hopes of remaining at the World Trade Center site.

Clinton spoke out the day after the IFC released a plan intended to save its spot at the site, but it was met with immediate opposition from 9/11 families.

Clinton won't support any plan unless the families and first responders back it, said her spokesman, Philippe Reines.

Many relatives of 9/11 victims denounced the Freedom Center plan as an insult to the 2,749 people who diedat the Twin Towers because it would paint them as a little more than a footnote to the world's march toward freedom.

The families, cops and firefighters say the IFC's plan to use hallowed land at Ground Zero to highlight poverty as a barrier to freedom diminishes the tragedy of 9/11.

Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) also voiced concern yesterday and called for a compromise ? although he didn't state flat-out opposition to the Freedom Center.

"There's got to be a way to meet the families' sincere and real needs and build a center that honors the freedom that the victims died for. We hope that the LMDC will find some common ground quickly," Schumer said.

Gov. Pataki ? who wields strong influence over the LMDC, which will soon decide the Freedom Center's fate ? is traveling abroad and has yet to take a stand on the Freedom Center's latest proposal. Pataki has said thathe won't support any plan that offers a forum for anti-Americanism.

Clinton's opposition means that the anti-IFC push is now a bipartisan cause. Three New York Republicans ? Reps. John Sweeney (Saratoga), Peter King (L.I.) and Vito Fossella (S.I.) ? are already challenging it as a "blame America first" project.

Yesterday, the trio of Republicans formally requested a congressional oversight hearing as a step toward blocking the IFC from getting any of the $2.7 billion in federal funds allocated for Ground Zero.

"The whole thing was hijacked. If you asked people on the street what they wanted at Ground Zero, this would be the last thing that they wanted," Sweeney said.

Hillary's home run


Friday, 23 September 2005
Topic: 9/11

I just recieved this message from
Take Back the Memorial dot Org

Newsday is conducting an online poll regarding the IFC. Vote Now! And Make Your Voice Heard!

News Day Poll

Freedom Center rejoins fight to stay at Ground Zero

September 23, 2005

A 49-page report released Thursday on a controversial plan to house a freedom museum at Ground Zero detailed how the International Freedom Center intends to address the Sept. 11 attacks as part of a wider historical context, again drawing the ire of victims' families, who say such exhibits don't belong there.

The report, which the Lower Manhattan Development Corp. had asked to be submitted by Thursday, said the Freedom Center would have exhibits dedicated to "the international outpouring of solidarity and sympathy for the victims of Sept. 11"; a tribute to "great documents of freedom," including the Declaration of Independence and the Magna Carta; and "The Freedom Walk," a concourse "offering a physical and emotional journey through the history of freedom as a global narrative of hope."

By choosing to examine Sept. 11 as an "essential element" of "the story of freedom," the plan has disappointed and angered many victims' families, who believe that the center is unrelated to the terror attacks. Tom Bernstein, the museum's chairman, defended the plan, saying that by telling the story of Sept. 11 "in the context of greater history," it would "honor those who were lost."

"The alternative is a very narrow one, in our view, and doesn't stand the test of time," Bernstein said.

The museum will present the plan at a meeting of the LMDC Families Advisory Council next week and at two public meetings. The LMDC then will use the feedback to determine whether it will keep the museum at the site.

Anthony Gardner, who heads the Coalition of 9/11 Families, said he doesn't object to the museum's message, but instead its location on hallowed ground. He and other family groups had hoped the museum would agree to relocate, just as the Drawing Center -- another museum that was selected to be housed at Ground Zero but that families had objected to -- already has said it would do.

"We maintain that it doesn't belong on the site," Gardner, who lost his brother Harvey Gardner in the attacks, said of the Freedom Center. "It doesn't belong on sacred ground. Politics do not belong on this sacred place."

But Bernstein said the museum never considered moving, especially because so many people had given time to "try to do the right thing" with the museum.

Poll: Freedom Center debate
Freedom Center backers say it will help people understand 9/11 sacrifices. Victims’ families say controversy surrounding the museum will dishonor the dead. Do you think it belongs at the WTC site?

Yes, it will be a learning tool. (31 responses)

No, the site should be used as a memorial only. (1548 responses)

Not sure. (13 responses)

1592 total
(At the time of this post)


Posted by ky/kentuckydan at 1:39 AM CDT
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Updated: Sunday, 3 June 2007 7:21 AM CDT
Monday, 12 September 2005
Two Issues,
One Word

Topic: 9/11
At the close of last week a firestorm lit up the internet concerning the design for the Future Flight 93 Memorial.

A firestorm is not an exaggeration. It might even be an understatement.

Many different blogs weighed in. Some were enraged, some did not see the significance of the construct that was objected to.

The responses ranged from

Michelle Malkin in

And do you wonder how this memorial design--benignly passive at best, offensive and inexplicably clueless at worst--possibly passed muster as the best representation of the spirit, courage, and resilience of the 40 passengers who saved countless American lives?
Is this the best we can do?
Sissy Willis and Dean Esmay, both conservative bloggers I like and link to regularly, dissent from those who are troubled by the "Crescent of Embrace." Do read their critiques. Sissy Willis thinks the issue can be resolved with a name change. Dean Esmay dismisses the controversy as a "kerfuffle." Both describe critics, myself included, as "shrill."

Captain's Quarters in

Flight 93 Memorial Intended To Offend

But the architects who created the winning design say their design has nothing to do with Islam.
"A crescent is part of architectural vocabulary. It's a generic form used in design," said Paul Murdoch, one of the winning architects. "We don't see any one group having ownership of it."
Murdoch believes it's unfortunate that the design is being interpreted that way.
"You can call it all kinds of things. We can call it an arc. We can call it a circle. We can call it the edge of the bowl. The label doesn't matter to us in terms of intent. We have no objection to calling it something else."
But as Ward reports, the advisory jury which selected the design asked the architects to do just that. They specifically wrote in their recommendation for this design that the name "Crescent of Embrace" be changed to "circle" or "arc" in order to avoid references to "specific religious iconography". That sounds as if the jury, which included victim family members, recognized the potential Islamic references at once.
Why didn't Murdoch heed that request? After all, it came from the victims' families, as the rebuttals have argued in specifying their support for the overall design. Instead, Murdoch kept that nomenclature.

The Politburo Diktat in

Flight 93 Crescent Memorial - The Designer?s Own Words

I don?t get it. Why this shape? The designers had a blank slate. They could have designed anything. And they chose the symbol of the perpetrators. They essentially claim that the shape is a coincidence. That?s an absurd claim. Architects design things for a reason, with intent; every part of an architectural design serves a purpose. A wall holds up a building; a pipe carries water; a gravestone marks a person?s final resting place. To pretend there is no symbolism here is beyond ?disingenuous.? It?s ridiculous. All you have to do is look at it. I skimmed through several Leftie blogs. They are convinced it?s a coincidence, that only wingnuts would see a connection.

Over in Euorope !No Pasaran! chimed in with
Forms have MEANING

One of their commenters was even more blunt

The proposed ?artwork for Flight 93 memorial site?called the ?crescent of embrace?. Does this just make you sick to your stomach when the remains of the victims are buried here and the perpetrators were muslim extremists? How many of these victims were muslims, do you suppose and since when is this appropriate in any stretch of the imagination

Then of course there were other reactions.

If the designer had used a different word?

by Jack Grant
such as semilunar instead of crescent, would the overly-sensitive right-wing be equally outraged?
From where I stand, Dean Esmay is entirely correct when he writes, ?Guys: it?s a curved grove of maple trees for God?s sake. Get over it

Perpetual Indignance As Political Expression
by Dean Esmay
Guys: it's a curved grove of maple trees for God's sake. Get over it

For the sake of debate, and only for the sake of debate I will stipulate, "a curved grove of trees is a curved grove of trees."

Let whether or not merely changing the name will solve the problem.

For me the defining question is, "If the crescent shape has no meaning other than subjective, was never meant to imply anything, the WHY was the simple request of the families ignored?"

They did not ask to scrap this design.
They did not ask to restart the long process of selection over.

They only asked that the title

"Crescent of Embrace" be changed to "circle" or "arc" in order to avoid references to "specific religious iconography".

Those who have maintained that outrage over the design of the Flight 93 Memorial have yet to explain why this simple request was not honored.

And if it was not honored, what purpose did the jury of families serve?

Were they meant to be listened to but ignored?

Were they just one more symbolic and meaningless gesture?

I am just a simple Flyover Land Jacksonian American, where I come from the wishes of grieving families where it is possible are honored.

So those who maintain that we who are outraged are barking at nothing.

Explain this puzzle to me.

If the Crescent has no definitive symbolic meaning in the title "Crescent of Embrace", where lies the great difficulty in changing one simple word?


Posted by ky/kentuckydan at 6:43 PM CDT
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Updated: Sunday, 3 June 2007 7:11 AM CDT
Sunday, 11 September 2005
Never Forget, Never Falter,
Do NOT Fail

Topic: 9/11

I hear people saying we don't need this war
I say there's some things worth fighting for
What about our freedom and this piece of ground
We didn't get to keep 'em by backing down
Now they say we don't realize the mess we're getting in
Before you start your preaching let me ask you this my friend

Have you forgotten how it felt that day?
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside going thru a living hell
And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

They took all the footage off my T.V.
Said it's too disturbing for you and me
It'll just breed anger that's what the experts say
If it was up to me I'd show it everyday
Some say this country's just out looking for a fight
Well after 9/11 man I'd have to say that's right

Have you forgotten how it felt that day?
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside going thru a living hell
And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

Now I've been there with the soldiers
Who've gone away to war
And you can bet that they remember
Just what they're fightin' for

Have you forgotten all the people killed?
Some went down like heros in that Pennsylvania field
Have you forgotten about our Pentagon?
And all the loved ones that we lost and those left to carry on
Don't you tell me not to worry about bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

Have you forgotten how it felt that day?
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside going thru a living hell
And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

Have you forgotten?

Have you forgotten?



Posted by ky/kentuckydan at 1:10 AM CDT
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Updated: Sunday, 3 June 2007 7:10 AM CDT
Saturday, 10 September 2005
The Bow of Blood
Topic: 9/11
There have been some interesting revelations about
further symbolic meanings hidden in Crescent of Embrace Flight 93 Memorial.

A case can be made that hidden meanings depend more on the searcher than what is examined. In this case I do believe the defining truth lies in the fact that,

the advisory jury which selected the design---specifically wrote in their recommendation for this design that the name "Crescent of Embrace" be changed to "circle" or "arc" in order to avoid references to "specific religious iconography". That sounds as if the jury, which included victim family members, recognized the potential Islamic references at once.

That from Captain's Quarters
Flight 93 Memorial Intended To Offend

Which SHOULD close the case that this interpretation is due only to the paranoia of small minded Neo-Con bloggers.

It won't though, any more than the above request by the families of the Flight 93 victims was honored.

But there are OTHER interpretations of the geometry that I find highly entreating.

Bluemerle points out that

"What would you say if you found out, among other issues of Islamic imagery being incorporated into the memorial, that the red crescent was canted on the prayer qibla to Mecca?

I know, I know.

But it is.

Shoot an arrow on the bow of the crescent and it flies along the path of the qibla. (the imaginary line to Mecca believers align themselves with when they pray.)


Etaoin Shrdlu presents us with a very impressive case.

Thus the Title of this post.

There is alot more comment on this over at Ace of Spades in
Another "Inadvertant" Feature of Flight 93 Memorial: Crescent Points Towards Mecca (CONFIRMED)

This last bit of information has changed my mind.
At first I want this version NOT to be used, now
I am thinking, yes make it EXACTLY like the illustrations and when I am there I can use
the ends of the Bow for a range finder. ;-)

Let the Left call it the Crescent of Embrace
I will think of it as the Bow of Blood.

Straight up the middle and forward!

If I ever go there I will stand on the Sacred Ground sight along the direction of an arrow laid
on the bowline and think,

Of the members of Flight 93

and my Cousin Casey who fell in Beirut in 83.

Now I say keep the Memorial just the way it is.


Posted by ky/kentuckydan at 11:38 PM CDT
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Updated: Sunday, 3 June 2007 7:09 AM CDT
Friday, 9 September 2005
Once more
into the breach,
dear friends,
once more

Topic: 9/11
"Or close the wall up with our English dead!
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility;
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage;
Then lend the eye a terrible aspect.
(III,i) "
Henry V by Shakespeare.

Though in this case it is not a case of closing a
wall with our dead, but preventing our dead from being defiled.

Twice now the Memorials to the Horrors of Sept 11, 2001 the Fall of the World Trade Tower, the Destruction at the Pentagon and the Valor of Flight 93, have been placed upon the Altar of Political Correctness, Bonding and Healing in preparation for Sacrifice.

Twice the American Public has risen in condemnation and STILL they try the same things, and then blink all innocent eyed when called to task.

First it was the Statue of the Firemen Raising the Flag. I posted on that here.

Some Things Are Sacred

THEN they wanted to use the WTC Memorial, NOT to honor the dead, but to teach us lessons about our past, Uhh why we deserved it I guess?

I posted on that Here.

Take Back The Memorial Petition

and Here.

WTC Memorial

Now it seems they have their hands on the Flight 93 Memorial, whose name it turns out is intended to be
the "Crescent of Embrace" made out of red and sugar maples. How SWEET, and how symbolic The Red Crescent has the same meaning in the MidEast as The Red Cross does here.

When I read, "The idea of the Crescent of Embrace, Murdoch said, is to be a gesture of healing and bonding.", my reaction was NOT one of healing,

I do NOT want to be "bonded" to the symbol that inspired the 19 Jihadists for the first serious attack on the US since Pearl Harbor.

This topic is being furiously debated over at Captain's Quarters in Clueless Memorial Design, Take 2
via Michelle Malkin

When you consider all the controversy about the World War One Memorial in the Mojave Desert, because it is in the shape of a cross?

Memorial in peril on Mojave preserve
The cross is the focus of a lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, which contends that the display of the cross on federal land violates the constitutional principle of separation of church and state.

I have HAD it!

Once more
into the breach,
dear friends,
once more


Posted by ky/kentuckydan at 10:22 PM CDT
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Updated: Sunday, 3 June 2007 7:10 AM CDT
Friday, 29 July 2005
Some Things Are Sacred
Topic: 9/11
Some things do NOT need to be changed or altered into something that they never were.

I have several posts about the WTC Memorial whatever shape it eventual comes in, it does NOT need to be a comment on ANYTHING but the Honored Dead, the Victims AND the Heros of 9/11 Whether at the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, or Flight 93.

Some cannot accept such simplicity, they must turn everything into a Political Statement or Lesson.

They are tying to do it with the Memorial, just as they tried to do it with a spontaneous demonstration after the attack.

I am speaking of the Statue derived from the Famous Flag Raising Photo at the WTC.

You can read the story Here

I will post an edited synopsis of the key points but I encourage all to read its entirety.

Thomas E. Franklin's firefighters raising the flag photo

Franklin was traveling with James Nachtwey, a Pulitzer-prize winning photojournalist who told him he had just narrowly escaped death at Ground Zero.

Around 4 or 5 p.m., Franklin and Nachtwey were taking a break and drinking water and juice. A trio of firefighters caught his eye.

"I would I say was 150 yards away when I saw the firefighters raising the flag. They were standing on a structure about 20 feet above the ground. This was a long lens picture: there was about 100 yards between the foreground and background, and the long lens would capture the enormity of the rubble behind them," Franklin said.

The three firefighters, William Eisengrein, George Johnson and Daniel McWilliams, had discovered a US flag on the back of a yacht inside a boat slip at the World Financial Center. They took the banner and decided to raise it as a statement of loyalty and resilience.

Franklin recalled, "I made the picture standing underneath what may have been one of the elevated walkways, possibly the one that had connected the World Trade plaza and the World Financial Center. As soon as I shot it, I realized the similarity to the famous image of the Marines raising the flag at Iwo Jima.

This was an important shot. It told more than just death and destruction. It said something to me about the strength of the American people and of thse firemen having to battle the unimaginable."

Two generations ago, when the US was in World War II, Associated Press photographer Joe Rosenthal snapped a picture of six Marines raising Old Glory on Mount Suribachi on the Pacific island in February 1945. The photo became a WWII icon and the basis for a Marine Corps memorial sculpture in Washington, D.C. The Battle of Iwo Jima also is recognized as the beginning of the end of the campaign against the Japanese in the Pacific.

The firefighters of Engine 255 and Ladder 157 of Brooklyn had been digging in the rubble and searching for survivors at WTC 7, when they were told to evacuate. The weakened structure was close to collapse.

During the evacuation, McWilliams, 35, of Long Island, saw the yacht, Star of America, owned by Shirley Dreifus of the Majestic Star company in New York. He took the flag and its pole from the stern and rolled it up so it would not touch the ground. He took it to the evacuation area. The Old Glory itself was American made, originating from Eder Flag Manufacturing of Oakcreek, Wisconsin.

McWilliams, of Ladder 157, passed a coworker, Johnson, 36, of Rockaway Beach, Queens. He slapped Johnson on the shoulder and said, "Give me a hand, will ya, George?"

Eisengrein, of Rescue 2 from Brooklyn, saw them and said, "You need a hand?" Eisengren also was a childhood friend of McWilliams on Staten Island and still resided there.

The firefighters found a flagpole within rubble about 20 feet off the ground on West Street. They used a improvised ramp to climb to the pole to raise the flag. As they performed their act, Franklin aimed his long lens in their direction.

McWilliams remembered that other fire personnel yelled, "Good job!" and "Way to go!"

"Ever pair of eyes that saw that flag got a little brighter," McWilliams said.

The three firemen decided to raise the flag on the spur of the moment. McWilliams said that "a big part of this is maintaining the unity of the whole team." The men were stressed from the WTC collapse and the lack of survivors among the debris.

"Everybody just needed a shot in the arm," McWilliams told the Associated Press.

In all, 343 firefighters died in the Trade Center disaster, along with 23 New York City and 37 Port Authority police officers and six medical rescue workers.

Franklin's photograph appeared in the 12 September 2001 Record. Reaction was swift and emotional. The flag raising firemen were hit with numerous calls from friends and family. Their first reaction -- surprise, as they didn't know Franklin took their picture.

DO you UNDERSTAND? They did not know they were being photographed, the scene was NOT posed!

One replica of the photo even generated controversy. In December 2001, the New York Fire Department unveiled a study of a memorial statue based on the picture, but with the firefighters as black, Latino and white. The three original men are all Caucasian. The sculpture was by StudioEis of Brooklyn.

"Given that those who died were of all races and all ethnicities and that the statue was to be symbolic of those sacrifices, ultimately a decision was made to honor no one in particular, but everyone who made the supreme sacrifice," said Frank Gribbon, an FDNY spokesman.

Many of the complaints about the statue came from New York firefighters themselves. They criticized their department for being politically correct and "rewriting history," as the father of fireman Thomas Casoria, a WTC victim, said.

Yes it IS true that "those who died were of all races and all ethnicities" and it would be RIGHT to include that in a memorial statue, but do NOT change what HAPPENED.

Some things are Sacred

They do not need to be altered to make a Political Point or Create a Political Lesson.

Some People can not understand this simple concept.

Posted by ky/kentuckydan at 7:36 AM CDT
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Updated: Sunday, 3 June 2007 6:16 AM CDT
Thursday, 28 July 2005
Take Back The Memorial Petition
Topic: 9/11

From Michele Malkin

On a beautiful, blue September morning in 2001, 3,000 innocent men, women and children were brutally slaughtered in the worst attack on American soil in the history of the country. The story of that day is one of tragic loss, uncommon valor and the spirit of a people who rallied together, a triumph of hope over hatred

We owe it to the victims and to the heroes who sacrificed their lives for others to tell their story.

To Governor George Pataki, Mayor Michael Bloomberg and the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation:

We, the undersigned, believe that the World Trade Center Memorial should stand as a solemn remembrance of those who died on September 11th, 2001, and not as a journey of history's "failures" or as a debate about domestic and foreign policy in the post-9/11 world. Political discussions have no place at the World Trade Center September 11th memorial, and the International Freedom Center honors no one by making excuses for the perpetrators of this heinous crime. The memorial should be about what happened that day, about the brave heroes who risked their lives so selflessly, and about the innocent lives that were lost... nothing more.

Sign the Petition

UPDATE: 1917 9/11 family members have signed the petition.

Posted by ky/kentuckydan at 9:26 PM CDT
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Updated: Sunday, 3 June 2007 6:17 AM CDT

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