May, 2003
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Jim Jones, David Koresh, Luc Jouret, and Marshall Appelwhite
Astrology for Group Deaths
by Sandra Weidner
This paper covers the astrology for the 11th house of four group leaders who died with the group they led. Individuals connected to Jim Jones in Guyana, Marshall Appelwhite in California, and Luc Jouret in Switzerland and Canada all committed suicide. The group in Waco, Texas associated with David Koresh, was murdered. Some might argue that through their rash behavior Koresh’s group also committed suicide.

Astrology identifies the 11th house as the house containing information about the individual’s relationship to groups. Benefics (sun, venus, jupiter) in or ruling the 11th support felicitous relations to groups. Malefics (mars, saturn), on the other hand, deny, rigidify, limit, sour, or undermine group relations.

The 11th house has also been tagged the house of “hopes and wishes.” Vague as that is, it is possible to make some sense of it. All humanity exists in groups. Any one individual, however, cannot be in all groups because many are mutually exclusive. The individual’s group identities impact his relation to all the rest of humanity (also in groups), whether through identification or through alienation. His hopes and wishes, then, are either what he wants for himself in his group(s) or what he wants for his group relative to other groups.

Consistent with the above, in her book, Sacred Contracts, Caroline Myss correlates the 11th house with chakras 4 and 6 (the heart and the third eye). She labels their combined effect “relationship to the world.” You would think that in naming chakras she is referring to one individual’s relationship to everyone-not-him--”the world.” But, in referencing the 11th house, she is connecting him to the world which exists or comes from or is, at bottom, group-identified, including the individual whose chakras she is referring to. Relationships of the 11th house are not individual in the same sense 7th house ones are. 7th house relationships are ones of marriage, close friendships, partnerships. The relationship to the world she is referring to is also not one of social prestige--fame or infamy--which is a 10th house matter. 11th house relationships involve group identification--my own, and those of the individual(s) to whom I am relating, all of us relating out of the context of “our group,” whether or not we are aware of it.

The largest human group is “all of humanity,” correlated with the meaning of Aquarius as the first and only all human sign. Aquarius is the sign naturally correlated with the 11th house. Few individuals achieve lasting identification with all of the group “humanity.”

Even if not a “joiner,” we should not think of groups as something we do not belong to. One belongs to groups by virtue of one’s religion, race, nationality, personal interests, activities, profession, and so on. Each individual belongs to some groups by birth and others by choice or need. Actively to some; passively with others. Special interest groups have been with us since the dawn of time, just their name is new. Self-help groups, now prolific in number, are simply the latest addition to mankind’s cornucopia of group identities.

Breakaway religious sects, often called cults, have been with us for millennia, too.

I want to keep the body of this paper simple. The hypothesis under consideration is that the 11th chart--which is a magnification of his 11 house--of any one reflects (1) his relationship to his group, whether he is a leader or a follower, and (2) his group’s relationship to the rest of the world, including the group called government. (3) If he is a leader, because of his group’s identification with him, as goes his fate (as it is reflected in the 11th chart), so goes his group’s.

A group’s conflict with its government should show up in its leader’s 11th chart . The more intense (and dangerous) the conflict, the more afflicted should be his chart. Siege conditions are one of the worst for any chart. The worst siege conditions exist when mars, saturn, and neptune are forefront and also ruling a 4th house. They indicate malignant (mars/neptune) breakdowns (saturn) and suggest the siege will conclude (4th) fatally--either by dissolution of the group’s identity, or by destruction of the group itself.

But, what about groups who commit suicide? (see footnote 1 at bottom of page) If the leader’s 11th chart reflects the destiny of the group still with him, does the mass suicide show up in his chart? If not as siege conditions, should it not at least show up as some kind of affliction. The question is, what kind?

Continuing with questions, is there a difference between 11th charts of leaders whose groups died voluntarily and those pushed into it by outside pressure? What about similarities? Two of the four groups--Jones’ (see footnote 2) and Koresh’s--were experiencing actual siege at the time. Jones’ siege existed more in his mind, but it did exist. Koresh was truly besieged. Members of the remaining two groups--Jouret’s and Appelwhite’s--committed suicide. In Jouret’s group a few appeared murdered and a few coerced to suicide. In Appelwhite’s, all went to their deaths voluntarily, even with joy.

Consonant with keeping it uncomplicated, I have placed the astrology for the 11th chart for all four leaders here, in the body of this paper. Other, idiosyncratic information about each leader is in his associated Appendix.

Since this method employs a harmonic chart for each house of the individual’s chart, instead of looking at the 11th house of his one traditional chart, we will be looking at the harmonic chart for the 11th house for all four leaders.

We will not be looking at his 11th house within his 7th chart, but it is another place requiring evaluation in addressing group situations.

Before that, I include information about this astrological method:

Astrological Method
This method is not traditional. It uses a birth and conception planets and their harmonics and houses, all of which share the same axis. :

This astrology uses the sidereal positions of the planets based on the Fagan-Bradley’s SVP.
Harmonics are taken from the sidereal position of the planets. The Egyptian harmonic, discussed in the paper “About This Method” (link below), is used.
”Lights” include suns, moons, and moons nodes. When mercury rules one or two Angles, it also acts like a light and has the same orb as the other lights. The MC or Asc also acts like a light, but one with only a 2° orb, because when a set is on an Angle it does not need a light to be active.
This method uses only conjunctions, applying and separating squares, and oppositions. Orbs for static planets with lights is 5°; without lights, about 2.5°. Orb for MC/planet or Asc/planet is 2°. Planets so related to each other are referred to as in the same “set.” A set, then, is two or more planets (or an Angle) connected to each other through conjunction, square, and opposition within the defined orbs. Sets without Angles are more active when they contain a light, and less active without one. Learning to look in terms of “crosses” can be helpful in rapidly finding planets that are in the same set.
Because this approach uses both a birth and conception chart and they share the same axis, birth houses usually overlap different houses of the conception chart. These are called “house overlaps.” As it turned out in this paper, house overlaps were not significant. They can be for some other conditions. Throughout this paper I use the convention when writing about house overlaps of putting the birth house first, then the conception house. So, for instance, a “5th/1st” overlap refers to an overlap of birth 5th house with conception 1st house in that order.
Birth planets (including their harmonics) rule only birth houses. Conception planets (including their harmonics) rule only conception houses.
For a more thorough explanation of this astrological approach, refer to the following papers:

About This Method
Chart Reading Rules

In the partial charts shown below, birth planets and their harmonics are inside the circle. Conception planets and their harmonics are outside the circle. Conception sidereal planets are red; conception harmonic ones, black. Birth sidereal planets are blue; birth harmonic ones, green. Occasionally, because of space limitations, I have had to violate this inside/outside arrangement, but the color coding remains constant.
Abbreviations used are b = birth, c = conception, and t = transiting. Even though the harmonic used for each chart is always two more than the chart’s number, in these papers—for ease of reading—I write the harmonic number the same as the chart number. For example, the 5th chart uses the 7th harmonic, but I have established the convention of writing harmonic planets for the 5th chart as, e.g., c5 mars, which reads, “the harmonic for the 5th chart for conception mars.”

I usually include biographical information in my papers. This time I decided to curtail that kind of information because the time required was excessive. All of the groups were religious or occult, or otherwise 8th- or 9th-house affiliated in their beliefs. Most readers are familiar with their names and what happened. Those who want to refresh or further inform themselves are referred to the following web sites.

Information about all four groups can be found in this first site:
Go to the Crime Library site

This second site is dedicated to examining and fairly portraying a variety of religious groups:
Go to the Relgious Movements site

We start with Jones.

James Warren Jones
Jones’ group’s mass suicide occurred earliest. On November 19,1978, in Georgetown, Guyana, over 900 people--adults, kids, families--committed suicide, many through ingestion of drugged Kool-Aid. Some showed signs of struggle. A few appeared to have been murdered. When they died they took with them Congressman Ryan of California, who came to investigate the group, and several news journalists.

Jim Jones
Partial Harmonic Chart for His 11th House

Placidus: c11--24 Gem, c12--25Can, c2--17Vir, c3--17Lib b11--29Lib, b12--20Sco, b2--20Cap, b3--1Pis
Before addition of any harmonic planets, Jones started with only C Asc square c mars. Addition of 11th harmonics added neptune and nodes, creating a malignant, poisoned, “crazy” 11th (Angle/node/mars/neptune). (The same condition in the 3rd chart is instrumental in psychosis.) Before any progressions Jones has Asc/mars/neptune/node/(mercury) in his 11th chart, and with mars ruling c 4th house. All Jones lacks for end-stage siege conditions is saturn. Did he get it?

Putting the information in a table and adding progressions for his date of suicide, November 19, 1978, his key 11th chart set looks like this:

c mars21 Taurus 20ruler of c 4th and c 9th, co-ruler of c 3rd (20 of 33°) houses
b11 South Node22 Taurus 22
C Asc22 Leo 10
c11 mercury22 Scorpio 07ruler of c 2nd and c11th, co-ruler of c 10th (24 of 34°) houses
c11 neptune23 Scorpio 56ruler of c 7th, co-ruler of c 7th (17 of 25°) houses
progressed b11 saturn22 Scorpio 17 Rruler of c 6th, co-ruler of c 5th (25 of 31°) houses [coming from 22Sag19]
progressed c11 uranus22 Scorpio 28 Rruler of c 6th, co-ruler of c 5th (25 of 31°) houses [coming from 9Sag44]

At the time of his suicide Jones had the full set for end-stage siege. Mars, saturn, and neptune were Angular and lighted (by the node) and influencing his 4th house (uranus gives a second 4th influence) and 11th houses.

Jones’ Appendix A addresses his sanity at the time. It evaluates his alleged manic depression. It looks at his 10th chart for information on his mother’s impact on him. At the time of Jones’ conception his mother was an anthropologist trying to decide between marriage and career. She decided not to terminate her pregnancy because in a dream her deceased mother told her he would right the wrongs of the world (from the Astrodatabase notes).

After returning to this document, to return to this spot do an Alt-Edit-Find for “Appendix A”.

Go To Appendix A

Next in date order for their deaths was Koresh and his group. They died on April 19, 1993 in a blazing fire following 51 days of siege of their compound by ATF agents. Located outside Waco, Texas, the fire (whether self-set or started by the tear gas) resulted in the deaths of seventy-four individuals--32 women, 21 men, and 21 children (plus two unborn fetuses). Nine people survived. Earlier, on February 28, five men and one woman died in a shoot-out. During the siege 35 individuals left.

David Koresh (Vernon Wayne Howell)
I do not have good early background information on Koresh. It appears Koresh’s mother was 15 years old when she conceived or bore him--too young to raise him, so he was raised by his grandparents. As a boy he was teased a lot, called “Vernie” and “The Retard” (C MC conjunct saturn in b 3rd house). In school he was an indifferent student, but an avid prayer and Bible reader.

The Branch Davidian’s, as the media called Koresh’s group, were a break-off sect of 7th-Day Adventists, a religion heavily invested in apocalyptic world endings. Even A Place Called Waco: A Survivor’s Story by David Thibodeau and Leon Whiteson does not give us the exact genesis of Koresh’s theology. It does give us an insider’s view of the catastrophe in clear and perceptibly non-twisted language--Thibodeau reads as interested in justice, not revenge. His book is a must-read for individuals who want victims to have parts in painting post-event pictures about “what happened?”. It is also good counterpoint to government bias and the media triteness that surrounded Waco.

David Koresh
Partial Harmonic Chart for His 11th House

Placidus: c11--22Sag, c12--19Cap, c2--5Ari, c3--5Tau b11--10Can, b12--10Leo, b2--6Lib, b3--6Sco

It is easy to see why Koresh died youngest of all four leaders. He died at age 33; Jones at 46; Jouret at 46, and Appelwhite at 65. Even before adding in harmonics, Koresh has three Angle/saturns. B MC and B Asc are opposition and square b saturn, respectively. (see footnote 3). C MC is conjunct c saturn. B saturn is already in the 4th house and lighted (by the Angles).

Our death requires several astrological conditions (which I cannot say mandate death, only that death cannot occur without them). Angle/saturn and lighted 4th/saturn are two of them.

The table below shows the astrology for Koresh’s death on April 19,1993.

C Asc24 Aquarius 59
b11 saturn (retrograde)25 Aquarius 09ruler of b 5th house
b mars23 Taurus 28ruler of b 3rd and b 8th houses
b11 moon24 Leo 29ruler of b 11th house
progressed b11 saturn (direct) 24 Aquarius 07
progressed c sun24 Scorpio 36ruler of c 7th and co-ruler of c 6th (25 of 36°) houses
progressed b11 neptune24 Aquarius 16ruler of b 7th house

The above siege planets--sun/moon/mars/saturn/neptune--have Angular and 11th house, but not 4th house influence. The 4th influence is required for the group’s death, so either Koresh is missing it, or it exists through another set.

Looking again at his partial chart above, in his 11th chart Koresh already has b saturn “lighted” (aspecting two Angles) in b 4th. That is his lighted saturn/4th influence. The midpoint of the two harmonic mars in his c 4th house is 7 Gemini 54, aspecting B Angles (lighted). Or simply, c11 mars is in c 4th and lighted by its square to b nodes. Either of these mars conditions gave Koresh, at birth, lighted mars in a 4th house. He is still missing neptune/4th influence. It comes from the following pre-progressed positions:

c11 mercury18 Aquarius 19co-ruler of c 4th house (22 of 23°)
c11 neptune19 Aquarius 11
c moon18 Aquarius 43
c11 saturn17 Scorpio 51

The above set influences c 4th house through its 4th ruler, mercury. Now Koresh has mars, saturn, and neptune influencing 4ths.

One thing is certain: if David Koresh wanted a chance at living a longer life, he should have stayed away from groups. But, of course, it is never that simple. Koresh could not stay away from groups because a group was crucial to his raison d’être. A prophet cannot save a few people from the Apocalypse without having a small band of followers.

Appendix B for Koresh includes data about his sanity, comments about his immersion in matters of the 9th house (religion), his charisma, his mechanical ability, and his role as “husband” to many women in his group. He fathered a number of children with them. After returning to this document, to return to this spot do an Alt-Edit-Find for “Appendix B”.

Luc Jouret
I found no early background information on Jouret. He was born in Zaire. I do not know if he was raised there. I do not know if he was married or a parent himself. A physician, he was handsome and charismatic. In fact, his charisma got him recruited by Joseph Di Mambro into the sect started by Di Mambro after Di Mambro left the Rosicrucian order to which he had belonged from 1956-1969. Di Mambro needed a charismatic individual to attract new members. He found him in Jouret. In 1984 their group became the Order of the Solar Temple. The Order believed itself reincarnated links to Knights Templar, a Chivalric Order. They believed they were here to fulfill a certain mission. Once it was fulfilled, they no longer had reason to stay.

Jouret and Di Mambro reportedly engaged in a power struggles about the group’s direction before their deaths.

On the night of October 4-October 5, 1994, in the towns of Chiery (Coire, Chür) and Granges-sur-Salvan, Switzerland, and in Quebec, Canada, 53 people died. At first the fires that destroyed their residences obscured recognition of their deaths as suicides. A few individuals may have been murdered.

The October 4 deaths were not the only ones for this group. In December, 1995, another 16 followed suit. Finally, in March, 1997 in Quebec another 5 killed themselves. The latter were survived by three teenagers unwilling (and unforced) to participate. The teenagers explained what happened and testified as to the victim’s willingness.

Luc Jouret
Partial Harmonic Chart for His 11th House

Placidus: c11--4Sag, c12--2Cap, c2--3Pis, c3--5Ari b11--9Lib, b12--10Sco, b2--6Cap, b3--5Aqu
As it turns out, Jouret does have lighted mars/saturn/neptune influencing his end in his 11th chart.

Neptune, his 4th ruler progresses closer. The table below shows this set for his date of death, October 4, 1994.

c sun20 Sagittarius 08ruler of c 7th house
c mars20 Sagittarius 24ruler of CMC and c 3rd house
c11 saturn20 Sagittarius 07ruler of c 12th house
c11 jupiter22 Virgo 37ruler of c 11th house
progressed b neptune18 Virgo 30 (coming from 17 Virgo 04)ruler of b 4th house

Jouret’s lighted mars/saturn/neptune influences an Angle, 4th and 11th house. However, it also influences his 12th. This set could represent Di Mambro as a man (sun) in Jouret’s life who is dangerous and somewhat crazed (mars/saturn/neptune). It could also represent Jouret himself. Sun/mars represents a driven, aggressive male.

What bothers me about this set is it is primarily pre-progressed. Moreover, nothing is setting it off at the time of Jouret’s death. It appears a life-long 4th influence which matures when it is supposed to--at the end of his life. But, by itself, with nothing (neither progressions nor transits) setting it off, it cannot be responsible for his group’s death. Jouret’s timing came from other elements in his chart:

Jouret started out with c11 uranus at 22 Pisces 20R in b 4th house. It rules C Asc (in Aquarius--groups?), and is part of the siege set above. On the day he died, it was progressed to 8 Pisces 49R (still in b 4th house) square B Asc at 8 Sagittarius 46, the latter acting as the light for uranus’ 4th house action. We saw uranus in Pisces in the 4th apparently instrumental in the (mental) demise of Nijinsky and Nietzsche.
Progressed b sun is at 17 Scorpio 19 conjunct c SN at 17 Scorpio 28, which is already conjunct b moon at 19 Scorpio 39. All are in b12th/c 10th houses. B moon rules b 8th house and progressed b sun rules b 9th. Jouret has a powerful attraction or tendency (South Node) to “Scorpionic” and 8th house matters, including transformations, one of which is death. Its 10th/12th placement in Scorpio implies a possible unforeseen (12th) transformation (Scorpio) which appears odd or strange or not very acceptable (elevated south node). Its 9th house influence implies transformations or death for religious (9th) reasons.

Actually, Jouret has another set which better fits the hypothesis:

C Asc1 Aquarius 54
progressed b mercury1 Scorpio 16ruler of B MC and b 7th house
progressed b11 mars0 Scorpio 49ruler of b 5th and 12th houses
progressed b11 neptune0 Taurus 35ruler of b 4th house
progressed c11 saturn1 Scorpio 59ruler of c 12th house
transiting pluto1 Scorpio 35

This set includes lighted mars, saturn, and neptune influencing two Angles--C Asc and B MC through its ruler. It also influences 4th and 12th houses. It does not influence the 11th house through rulers, but does through place. All the Scorpio planets (mercury, mars, and saturn) are inb 11th house. The only neptune/11th was transiting 11 neptune was at 6 Scorpio 46, having just passed over the conjunction of venus and jupiter in Scorpio conjunct his CMC (see figure above) which is in b 11th house.

Conception time exactly four minutes earlier would have put Jouret’s C Asc at 0 Aquarius 53, and his progressed C MC at 22 Sagittarius 44 squaring his original 4th house uranus in Pisces (ruler of C Asc) at 22 Pisces 20. Since birth and conception are very tightly linked, that would have put his birth about four minutes earlier, too. (I did not calculate out the changed birth time.) The earlier C Asc is a little late for his progressed saturn. The later Asc is a little early for his progressed mars and neptune. He does have b SN at 29 Libra 39. It acts as a light to C Asc, though on the underside--so weak--and increases orb of planets aspecting it.

Transiting harmonic (for the 11th chart, which is the 13th harmonic) pluto was at 20 Scorpio 32, having just passed over his b moon at 19 Scorpio 39, ruler of b 8th house.

Jouret’s Appendix C contains information relevant to his sanity at the time of his death. It also includes observations about his profession (MD, homeopath), and a discussion of the powerful, usually benefic aspect which sponsored his charisma, his relevance in occult groups, and his usual good luck. After returning to this document, do an Alt-Edit-Find for “Appendix C”.

Go To Appendix C

Last in order of date of death was Marshall Appelwhite’s group.

Marshall Herff Appelwhite
Appelwhite, the son of a Presbyterian minister, was also an over-achiever, . A classic persuasive leader, he was also good looking. He attended seminary, but apparently did not graduate. Having been a choir director with a nice singing voice, he had had a number of roles in the Houston Grand Opera. Married with two children, he was teaching at the University of Alabama School of Music when an affair with a male student led to his dismissal. His wife left him and his divorce occurred in 1968. In 1972 he checked himself into a psychiatric hospital asking to be cured of his homosexual desires.

Appelwhite met Bonnie Lu Trousdale Nettles, a nurse at the hospital, in March, 1972. They shared a fascination with UFOs, astrology, and science fiction. Feeling they were soulmates and beings from another dimension (“aliens” who were thousands of years old), they formed a partnership that included peripatetic proselytizing for others like themselves. After her death from cancer, her position was filled by Susan Strom and Julie La Montagne. I don’t know whether together or sequentially. I do not know about Susan, but Julie died with the group.

All group members were expected to give up sex and live Spartan lives. Group conformity was strongly encouraged. Many of the women cut their hair so short that when found they were first believed to be male corpses.

In 1993 one of Appelwhite’s male members got himself castrated. In 1994 Appelwhite followed suit. In the final count, seven of the eighteen men at Heaven’s Gate were castrated.

Appelwhite’s group was fairly upscale economically. By the fall of 1996 they had their own computer consulting business. Much earlier Appelwhite and Nettles had been arrested and Appelwhite charged with credit card fraud as well as possession of a stolen vehicle. He served six months awaiting trial, was found guilty, and served another four months. In 1975, when he was released, he and Bonnie Lu left for California. Appelwhite was never again charged with a crime. Perhaps he was too clever to get caught, but likely he was gifted enough to bring in the money he needed without committing a crime to get it.

On March 27, 1997 thirty-nine members--21 women and 18 men--of Appelwhite’s Heaven’s Gate community committed suicide in their mansion at Rancho Santa Fe, California. Theirs was a socially considerate suicide. They died from a combination of Phenobarbital and alcohol. Most were laid out in their beds and draped in purple cloths. All were wearing Nike shoes and had pockets full of quarters. There was no fire. There was no FBI or ATF or government assault.

Many left behind videos for relatives to show they did what they did voluntarily and with enthusiasm. They were, it seems (this time--other predicted ends did not materialize) going to shed their human bodies so they could enter the space ship in the tail of the comet Hale Bopp, which was then passing through our part of the solar system. Timing was important.

Marshall Appelwhite
Partial Harmonic Chart for His 11th House

Placidus: c11--4Vir, c12--1Lib, c2--24Sco, c3--27Sag b11--3Cap, b12--1Aqu, b2--19Ari, b3--16Tau

Except for his C Asc square sun/mars in Cancer, Appelwhite’s 11th chart looks free from affliction, especially compared to Jones’ and Koresh’s charts. I included the set containing the mars/saturn/pluto conjunction (within 2-1/2°) square both neptunes to show it looks like it should have been instrumental in forming his siege set. By timing, it was not. There is no 4th influence, either, nor does it acquire one. Birth neptune’s rulership of B Asc gives Appelwhite Angular influence of saturn/pluto, likely instrumental in separating his group’s identity so thoroughly from that of the rest of society.

Appelwhite’s siege set is formed almost completely from progressed planets.

The table below shows those progressions for his date of suicide, March 27, 1997.

b11 mars12 Taurus 11ruler of b 9th, co-ruler of b 8th (16 of 27°) houses
progressed B MC12 Aquarius 11
progressed c11 saturn11 Taurus 51co-ruler of c 3rd house (30 of 34°)
progressed c neptune11 Leo 12ruler of c 5th house
progressed c11 mars11 Leo 39
progressed b11 uranus11 Scorpio 1 Rruler of c 4th house [coming from 9 Sag 11]

Appelwhite’s group’s suicide (as represented by his 11th chart) is a fluke of timing. All those planets--non-harmonic and harmonic, faster and slower-moving, and just the right ones--just happened to end up forefront and influencing the right areas.

Even though Appelwhite’s group’s suicide was voluntary, his forefront set parallels that of Jones, Koresh, and Jouret.

The above set, however, does not influence his 11th house. Another does: progressed c mercury, ruler of c 11th house, is at 10 Virgo 59, opposite B Asc at 11 Pisces 12. Its position aspecting an Angle means there (also) will be an 11th house interpretation to whatever is happening.

Appelwhite’s Appendix D addresses, among other things, his potential psychosis, his indications for homosexual attraction, his distaste for sexuality, and his astrology for his castration.

After returning to this document, to return to this spot do an Alt-Edit-Find for “Appendix D”.

Go To Appendix D

These are not the only progressions for each disasters, nor is the 11th the only chart that should be consulted for evaluation of group tragedies. I do not know if influence by the siege set to the 11th, 12th (or 8th?) houses is important. I was interested in showing that the 4th always was. In highlighting certain similarities in charts of leaders of group disasters, this paper does not exhaustively cover the subject.

Charts of just four individuals who led their groups to their deaths are not enough to draw definitive conclusions. Still, the similarities for these four--regardless of type of death or the reason each believed he was dying--is intriguing. It enables a few working hypotheses perhaps worthy of further research and consideration.

Leaders whose groups die as a group share similar 11th chart astrology--that is, siege conditions--regardless of whether their group is murdered or commits suicide.
Leaders whose groups die as a group share similar 11th chart astrology--that is, siege conditions--regardless of whether or not they see themselves as besieged.
Siege conditions in the 11th chart of the leader represent siege conditions for followers still with him. Therefore, examining just his chart is sufficient for evaluating how critical the situation is. His followers are potentially as dead as he is.

Individuals in siege groups may also have siege conditions in their 11th charts. That may be the reason they stay in their besieged group even when free to leave--all, unwittingly, share the same vibration

I have the charts of two individuals not leaders who died with their groups:

Six-year-old John Victor Stoen (not free to leave), died with his father, Jim Jones. Stoen’s MC/Node/saturn acquired a moon/mars in his harmonic chart for his 11th house. On November 19, 1978, he had a progresssed Angle/mars/saturn. He had a progressed Angle/neptune. And he had the following:

c11 saturn28 Pisces 30ruler of C MC and c 9th house
progressed b mars29 Pisces 19ruler of b 12, co-ruler of b 11th (23 of 40°) houses
progressed b11 mercury29 Pisces 14

The above Pisces planets are all in b and c 11th houses.

Forty-five-year-old Joslyn La Montagne died with her companion, Marshall Appelwhite. Including harmonics, her 11th started out with Asc/sun/mars, with mars co-ruling b 4th (23 of 25°). (Arguably, with her sun in 2 Pisces 45 as a light to increase orb, her B Asc in 3 Sagittarius 14 in c 4th house is conjunct b11 mars at 4 Sagittarius 25 and conjunct c 11 saturn at 6 Sagittarius 20R, but it acted more like a fault line. It was progression of conception saturn from 7 Virgo 25 to 4 Virgo 06R to B Asc etc that was her timer. At birth her b neptune was at 26 Virgo 44, one degree from her B MC at 27 Virgo 41. On the date of her death, pb neptune was at 27 Virgo 35 and pc mars at 28 Pisces 15 (ruler of c 4th house).

Stoen and La Montagne had siege conditions in their 11th chart. Stoen, led to his death by his own father, was understandably disturbed. But La Montagne was supposed to have been happy to die among a group of people also delighted to be leaving the planet. Should I think she fooled herself, or that the 11th chart shows the fate of the group but not their feelings?

Likely, survivors of group murder or suicide do not have the full set--especially the 4th influence--for siege conditions. (David Thibodeau survived the ordeal in Waco, but I do not have his birth data.)

After looking at these results, I became interested in exactly how big a group can get and still be represented by its leader in the 11th chart. Does, for instance, the 11th chart of George W. Bush, the president of a group called the United States of America, reflect not only how well he does with the USA, but how well his USA does in general? I have addressed Bush’s 11th chart astrology for 9-11 in footnote 4 , below.

If their 11th chart siege conditions do not always represent actual sieges, as was the case with the two group suicides, what do they represent?

I can take a guess.

Let’s consider Heaven’s Gate, whose members all died voluntarily, even enthusiastically. There was no question--they were not in any trouble with the law. They were economically independent. They were socially well-behaved. Their existence as a group as well as their mass death was a complete surprise to all but perhaps those who formerly knew them.

These individuals joined Appelwhite’s group because they already felt alienated--apart, non-belonging, even altogether alone-- from the rest of humanity. They responded positively to Appelwhite’s “thousands-year-old alien” identity

They did not value even their potential individuality or they would not have relinquished it so readily to Appelwhite’s rules. The conformity--at least the outer--of Heaven’s Gate was a conformity approaching the sameness of mass production.

In addition, they all either disliked, hated, or found useless their sexuality, which they also abandoned. Belonging at Heaven’s Gate meant not belonging to either half of the human race.

Given that much aloneness preceding belonging at Heaven's Gate, and given that much need to belong, and given a gifted tale spinner as Appelwhite most assuredly was, when he said they had to get onto the space ship concealed in the tail of Hale Bopp or else, it constituted siege. The group, collectively, "went nuts" (mars/neptune/saturn)--enthusiastically nuts, but nuts just the same. They could do this because no one remained with them able to correct their perspective.

So, we could say, mars/saturn/neptune forefront and influencing a 4th house in the chart of the leader reflects collective and fatal insanity for himself and all the individuals still with him.

It follows from that, a group sent in to deal with a collectively insane one should not also be (astrologically) collectively insane, otherwise there will be a blood bath. In order for rescuers to actually rescue, or end a siege, their astrology (vibratiion, if you will) has to be different from that of the group they are rescuing.



Footnote 1
It seems to me a group that decides to separate itself from the rest of humanity through suicide is under some kind of duress.

Footnote 2
I suppose some believe Jones’ group was not experiencing siege conditions. Jones had a long-term reputation for paranoia. He was very possessive of individuals in his group in particular. Before their death, he even had them do practice runs for suicide. Investigation of “Jonestown” had begun perhaps a year earlier through Congressman Ryan and relatives of sect members. Some reports say Jones was using drugs, mostly amphetamines. He was sexually involved with a number of members. The combination of all of it on Jones’ already labile psyche resulted in siege conditions for him. Given all the control and regimentation he had established with his group, siege conditions for him were siege conditions for them.

But this is almost beside the point, because the name “siege conditions” is misleading. All four groups had astrological siege conditions, but all four were not under assault. Mars/saturn/neptune represents a malignant condition which in the 1st chart yields severe allergies; in the 2nd, financial hemorrhaging; the 3rd, paranoid schizophrenia;in the 4th only of the 7th chart actually being besieged (like being in a concentration camp)...and so on, with much yet to learn.

Footnote 3
Koresh’s b saturn starts out retrograde, so, importantly, it is moving away from exact aspect to his B Angles. However, it turns direct during his lifetime, and has returned to 6 Sagittarius 33 on the date of his death--still a little over a degree away from his B Angles. C saturn is direct, and also moving away from exact conjunction to C MC. Both imply the possibility of a longer life. In terms of the timing for his death, neither were necessary. B11 saturn’s conjunction to C Asc was the saturn in play at the time.

Footnote 4
On September 11, 2001 President Bush had the following in his 11th chart (his birth and conception houses coincide within two degrees. His B MC is at 0Ari 14 and C MC at 1Ari58. Continuing with birth cusps: 11--7Tau, 12--13Gem, Asc--13Can, 2--4Leo, and 3--29Leo).

c11 sun7 Capricorn 16
c11 mars10 Capricorn 31ruler of C MC and c 5th houses
progressed b saturn9 Cancer 28ruler of b 7th house and co-ruler (13 of 30°) of b 6th houses
progressed c mars8 Cancer 12ruler of C MC and c 5th
progressed c11 saturn9 Cancer 03Rruler of c 7th, co-ruler of c 6th (14of 30°) houses

Neptune is not involved. The midpoint of the first sun and mars is 8 Capricorn 53. The midpoint of the next three--saturn/mars/saturn, is 8 Cancer 54. The locality Asc of his birth chart for Washington, DC is 8 Cancer 41. The MC of his 40-day return was 9 Aries 58. The above set has Angle and 7th influence. I can’t make anything out the 5th influences. Bush picked up his Angle/12th influence from progressed C MC at 27 Taurus 44 conjunct progressed b uranus (8th ruler) at 27 Taurus 38 and opposite progressed c mercury (ruler of c 12th and c 3rd houses) at 27 Scorpio 12. Progressed B MC was conjunct c uranus, 8th ruler. Progressed B Asc, square c moon, Asc ruler.

Bush, however, did not have one Angle-to-malefic progression. He had a number of benefic ones. Progressed b jupiter was at l Libra 08, arguably aspecting both MCs (as it was when he was elected). Progressed b moon, Asc ruler, was conjunct progressed b venus. Progressed C Asc was square c11 venus. Progressed b11 venus was conjunct his c jupiter at 12 Virgo 43 and 12 Virgo 59 respectively (conjunct c neptune at 12 Virgo 07, but without light). And progressed b11 jupiter was at 14 Libra 15, square C Asc at 14 Cancer 25.

Bush’s combined negative and positive sets can be interpreted that while his group received a mortal blow (sun/mars/saturn), most of his group became more cohesive. Bush’s relationship to the smaller group of his political insiders and to his larger political group (USA) improved dramatically.

This, of course, was not his only afflicted chart, but as an 11th chart for September 11, 2001 it is interesting.

I have the birth data for the American president who was in office when Pearl Harbor was attacked on December 7, 1941. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was president at the time. Looking at his 11th chart for that date, we find:

b11 venus18 Gemini 33ruler of B MC and b 3rd house, co-ruler of b 9th house (29 of 34°)
b11 saturn18 Virgo 54ruler of b 5th house
progressed b sun17 Pisces 59ruler of b 12th house
progressed b mars18 Gemini 43ruler of b 4th and 9th houses

The above shows Roosevelt has sun/mars/saturn influencing an Angle, 9th, 12th, and 4th house at the time of the attack. Progressed b sun is a little early, but I believe most astrologers would agree it starts working before the aspect is exact.

The 4th influence appears to have meant the end of Pearl harbor, not the end of Roosevelt or his whole group. That may also have been implied by his benefic aspect, discussed in the next paragraph.

For December 7, Roosevelt, like President Bush for September 11, had a multitude of good, that is, progressed Angle/benefics in his 11th chart. Like Bush, he had a progressed sun/mars/saturn in play. Like Bush, he had no progressed Angle/malefics.

A Place Called Waco: A Survivor’s Story by David Thibodeau and Leon Whiteson. New York: Public Affairs, 1999.

Sacred Contracts: Awakening Your Divine Potential by Caroline Myss. New York: Harmony Books, c. 2001.

Data Acknowledgments (in order of appearance)

James Warren Jones (AA)
Birth: 5/13/1931, 10:00 p.m. CST, Lyn, IN. From Astrodatabank database by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Zipporah Dobyns quotes Beverly Good “from news sources in Indiana.”
Conception: 8/5/1930, 7:35:40 a.m. CST, Lyn, Indiana.

Astrodatabank’s website: Go To Astrodatabank

David Koresh (Vernon Wayne Howell) (A)
Birth: 8/17/1959, 8:49 a.m. CST, Houston, TX. From Astrodatabank database by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Joyce Mason quotes his mom, Bonnie Haldeman, who gave her permission in order to correct misunderstanding in the astrological community, etc.
Conception: 11/6/1958, 2:49:17 p.m. CST, Houston, TX.

James Warren Jones (AA)
Birth: 5/13/1931, 10:00 p.m. CST, Lyn, IN. From Astrodatabank database by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Zipporah Dobyns quotes Beverly Good “from news sources in Indiana.”
Conception: 8/5/1930, 7:35:40 a.m. CST, Lyn, Indian.

Luc Jouret (A)
Birth: 10/18/1947, 10:04 a.m. MET, Kikwit, Zaire. From Astrodatabank database by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Petitallot quotes a colleague from Jouret himself, Cadran 2/95 (from memory).
Conception: 1/5/1947, 8:36:26 a.m. MET, Kikwit, Zaire

Marshall Herff Appelwhite (AA)
Birth: 5/17/1931, 3:20 a.m. CST, Spur, TX. From Astrodatabank database by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough, birth certificate in hand.
Conception: 8/8/1930, 1:26:34 p.m. CST, Spur, TX.

John Victor Stoen (B)
Birth: 1/25/1972, 2:16 p.m. PST, Santa Rosa, CA. From Astrodatabank database by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Joe Fitzgerald quotes Beiterman and Jacobs, >Raven, given in Mercury Hour 7/1983
Conception: 4/15/1971, 8:13:03 a.m. PST, Santa Rosa, CA.

Joslyn La Montagne (AA)
Birth: 11/26/1951, 8:52 a.m. EST, Springfield, MA. From Astrodatabank database by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Frances McEvoy quotes the birth certificate.
Conception: 2/12/1951, 7:20:28 p.m. EST, Springfield, MA.

George W. Bush (AA)
Birth: 7/6/1946, 7:26 a.m. EDT, New Haven, CT. From Astrodatabank database by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. (On the Internet) Kim Castille quotes hospital records from hospital public relations.
Conception: 9/27/1945, 2:05:11 a.m. EDT, New Haven, CT.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt (AA)
Birth: 1/30/1882, 8:45 p.m. LMT, Hyde Park, NY. From Astrodatabank database by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Rodden quotes Rita H. Kleeman, Gracious Lady, which gives his dad’s diary “at a quarter to 9 my Sally had a splendid baby boy.”
Conception: 4/20/1881, 9:53:11 p.m. LMT, Hyde Park, NY.

John (Jack) MacLean (AA)
Birth: 12/8/1946, 4:02 p.m. EST, Stoneham, MA. From Astrodatabank database by Lois Rodden and Mark McDonough. Frances McEvoy quotes the birth certificate.
Conception: 2/25/1946, 4:21:57 a.m. EST, Stoneham, MA.

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