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J U D I T H A ........F A N T A I L.......LO F T....... THE HOME of RARE and of STANDARD COLORED FANTAILS

THE BIRTH of the MODERN FANTALE , Historically as it happened with documentation with a timeframe!

My Favorite Web sites

Angelfire Home Pages
SWAG Interpretation of a proper Under-carriage for proper MOTION; in the smallest size, baseball ROUND.
(2005fanpix)Some renderings and other ceramic tools

THE MODERN FANTAIL 2005, September

We hope to present the History in the developement of the Modern FANTAIL. We will show, thru hard driven documentation ; tho we will leave it open to the Reader, the Breeder, the Fancier, to his own conclusions.

In the beginning, there was PRE FIRE TALK. There was a NATION BOARD on the FANTALE , talking, meeting, and discussing. The bottom line... This Fancier, this EDITITOR is nother but a single interpretation of how the Modern fantail was born , how the Standard of Perfection, no matter what, who, or how it is placed into TEXT; it will be Firstly.. THE TRI VIEWS, all of them that will interpret any written words, by any individual, or Group, so designated.

The ULTIMA, and the INSPIRATION..will also have a place in this developement, in the finally of 2006; but documentation will show that THE FUTURA set the presidence.

THE MODEL is, of course the cutting edge for the FUTURE! Those that can see that this MODEL, will fill in any form of Misinterpetation!

The Wooden Model that Benny Ferber posted is also a factor in OUR Modern Fantail. =====================================================

We have on our old hard drive pre mellennium enough for anyone to re direct their thoughts to a very healthy FUTURE for our HOBBY.

We will start in no particular place, because chronological is not the nature of this beast? ===================================================== Look to the top most Vincent.. this is one of several; all PRE FIRETALK? ALL PRE the yellow saddle rendering...Then, he was the CHAIRMAN of the Fantale BOARD; a most confortable way to envelope everyone into those coming FIRETALK DAYS; PRE VAUGHN, and the CFC Mother CLUB ! to be continued.....

This Article, like most of our concensouis of one is not only Historical; but also shows how many individuals from all over the World have contributed to the so called AMERICAN FANTAIL.

THE MODERN FANTALE dipicted here is, as usual; a Concensous, and an understanding, even an interpretation of this Editor. And, based upon entries of fact, discussion, and creativity; both Historically, as well; the focal point of the Developement of the so called Mellenia FANTAIL. ======================================================

===================================================== With the History from Jeff B A T T O N, we can easily bring this up to date. ===================================================== THE history of development is gapped with the post Standard revisions of Harry Little 1960's. ====================================================== Leon Stephens envelopes the California GENEPOOLE ===================================================== PGNL was started in the 1950's by Williard Hollander; and followed by JOE QUINN.. Dave Rhinehart, and today, Paul Gibson; all colour Breeders...and the route of color and markings. ====================================================== JE mentioned his dream of a specialized Fantail Genepool(E) ; we started placing URLS up with FTP uploading. Polly added another Dimension, and took over the CCFC web sight; great strides, and still PRE JJ's LIST, and Pre FIRETALK. ( POST FIRETALK gave us the MODERN FANTAIL) ===================================================== THE VAUGHNS set, an AGENDA for the MOTHER CLUB, THE CENTRAL FANTAIL CLUB... ===================================================== THE TRI VIEWS are wondrous ===================================================== Lances MODEL is a thought interpretor for the old Standard and the NEW. ===================================================== The mechanism of action, the "IN MOTION" from O'DELL comes forth from the work of our ELITE'since the 1950's, or, Pre Fire talk to date. ==================================================== There are Fathers of the MODERN DAY FANTAIL, as there was FOREFATHERS! We wonder who Bred the Majors white cock? Or who was his LOFT manager.? Who was JIMMY GLASSGOW? ===================================================== to be continued?

AUGUST 2005....
CHLORINE, CHLOROX....and there was HTH15 back when... Today their is VIRKON.... It is also Chlorine... The S might be flavored, but, theres always Clover Honey.; iffin, they don't like the change...

VIRKON S Dosing pigeons.. watch with City water...cut in summer to half the un recommended dosage. of 5mgs, one level measuring teaspoon in 2 gallons( aprox 8L)

when to use it? periods of breeding, breeding with the molt; breeding with the molt and lots of babies.

The Article that came from John Arena, Here, is quite a summation of Hompathic approach to this Hobby.

Commercial chlorox at 1ml per 4-5 gallons is cheaper and these both produce organically acid droppings; the natural resistance to the bad boys; ( bad boys, is yeasts, molds, bacterias, chamydia, and the various virus's... Chlorine bleach was known for years to acidify the dropping, which stops all these bad boys..the mold, chamydia, E coli, coccidia, etc and Virusus.. name ne one antibitic that will take out the Virus? Valtrex...Zovirax??

Don't forget to look to their droppings with a scope.. or a vet, can do it.. for worm eggs.. also the litter...WORMING is still number one.. is our Prevention series.

If we can study, read, and understand how important the ARTICLE sent out by JOHN ARENA....It should be The bottom line: The use of any Chlorine derivative has always cleared them for high fertility. We had to regroup when Chorox went to a newer Strength, due to new formulation, and chemical binding, additives etc.. The cheapest, the best is still Commercial ml per 5 gallons...

It does strip their gears, but not anything like some of the Antibiotics. (gut flora is likely affected, so feed some good bacteria, like in Calf gel electrolytes . as discussed in earlier post on Fantail List. Also noting, that the Article from Arena.. also recommends good bacteria after a 3 day treatment of VIROX hot weather tho.. cut the nutrients down by half; and that includes good bacterias...

We are satisfied that 100% removal of dust is essential, spraying walls etc; however; the top most, dried quano from pure dried droppings, should be used as a starter, as in a Compost pile; or as in starter mix, in buckwheat cakes( mountain food) ; and the new litter( we use saw mill cuttings) dusty cat litters are not condusive , most times. ====================================================== This is hurriedly composed, so expect a bit more, and even some corrections . ===================================================== Angel wings can be dipped in drinking water and set once in most cases.. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Crusty feet.. commercial chlorox sprayed on full their eyes rub them, spray.. follow up with severe cases of neglect, and look to Loft environment! ====================================================== Know that S04 in my well water, the mangenese, the iron, and the calcium salts are all plus in Nutritional aspects. Know that all grain diets are missing some essentials...Sulfur, Iodine, and Selennium;ribflavin

The selennium , if non existant in the diet of yg cocks.. leaves them sterile for life? Iodine..with increased Riboflavin( as a STRESS B vit mixture) reduces STRESS, Fewer Worms, less Stress, no Infections.. E coli, coccidia, and several Virus's, often quessed upon rather than a most difficult, and expensive diagnostics.. Sulfur, in our well water, means a bit more feather qualities? still, soy protein out ranks, and out flanks any other legume? for the ESSENTIAL AMINO ACIDS...Cystein is a sulfur bonded amino acid, essential, to be in the feed, and build feather. Fatty acids... the sheen, not counting their healthy athletic ability.feed some oil sunflower, 15% usable protein, and fatty acids for plume' and gresing the grease quills. Saaflower is more expensive...( speaking of SaaflowerS the flowers ground up.. prevent gout attacks.. in masters LOL) These are highlights; for full out the POUTRY NUTRTION; but most definetly we place the Article from some broiler Grower..the first LAW of the Editor.On well, what improper Medicating can do for YOU... destroy good Breeding seasons? ETC ETC.. VIRKON is 9.5% chlorine.... .... ====================================================== Many of the Pix are posted on the 2005fanpix link.

As we move forward into this 2005 breeding season; we have a sense of understanding, for which we have never felt before.

We move to the Product of the General Requirements as in the KEYWORD....VISUAL...that which we each can see at a glance; and know that with a lack of short coupling, the quickness of the frontal line breaking upwards as it sweeps away, from a questional leg line; to an increased dimension fore and aft { front frontal to back cushion } When we set a deeper boddee; we set the pockry at the base of...{ the breed crosses show us that individuals with the proper Visual, will display a deeper bodee, from fronta; meat , rearward; ; that if we utilize same, with this overall deepnes fore to aft; that we can use them if their head bob in mid air; but that if we use those short most certainly wil lead to those in be tween types that set the judges crazy!!) Looking to the Visual of bodee to top tail, frontal break line to back of cushion allows the proper head position... The shape of the bodee, looking to the keel length, sets us up for a Bird of MOTION, even without tail and fkight for Physical balance; to the Legs then, the foundation is not set as apple on a stick; which is the straight line drop, as in a POUTER; rather, a Directional positioning that is condusive to further the Illusion of Roundness within the meat & the feather.. The thigh moves forward, the drumstick is as long, longer than the keel length; the wider pelvis all make for a proper visual, as long as we look to the wing lines, and rump setting/ rump shape..with those out of round tail feathers at the tails center... THE VISUAL is the problem solver for both the Breeder, as well the JUDGE...because it sets the foundation, with a proper bodee shape, that is Physically Balanced and comes only as a High that IT IS NOT SHORT COUPLED!

Arena2004.jpg Observation of the Ervin enhanced meat & feather (yellow saddle) is a side view; rather than critic it; or my comparision to the O'dell 'Number 'Seven below , we wish to only clearify that both are of a proper Visual. That, the yellow saddle does not have the midus touch of the Artist, O'Dell with an air brush..Is this understandable?; If we look to these flat renderings.. the air brush easily dipicts the preferred Ceramic feathering head to foot! One is 3/4 view, one side view.. this changes the artists forced perspective,,as well as the on-looker.

Point is...both of these show a lot to be had in a formidiable competition.....Critique is for those who see beyond what I see....but, for the purpose of the Pictures at hand... they easily achieve for Old or newby!

Ervin has shown us the Legs and the under-carriage; but we needed to understand more specifics; this came with Lances Bones robiotics, and 20 renderings from Arena...A decade of study, and work by a TEAM with Guts.

This summation of Minds eye, likely goes beyond to the actual Breeding and creating; but, we like to think that it will open the way for our JUDGES.

THE VISUAL that we all see is resulting from a proper compilation of the General Requirements. We have HAD to equalize the color points, the marking points; to EQUAL point allowances so that we could produce a fumctional program that Selects the best point blending for a specific mating...Leaving the color and marking at 10 total, did not allow any improvements. Our own Standard of Perfection comes of many; but Billy Diemer, started us..and recently, without a word of mention ..Bill , excusa; WILLIAM I DIEMER ..says.. ALL the ten each...

I failed to mention this, and even now have been hesitant; it could be that we don't know enough about place in the variable Point allowances.

Today, we set the Mode for Selection of those Top individuals: when I said that, I was told I could never be a SIXER." Correct, and here is why? After Selection, skimming off the cream of the crops of several years breeding; we will endeavor to maintain all the color genome in a specified Family for each. This said, and soon to be done; then we look again to Selection and point blending of certain individuals that either look profound, or have proven it; altho..we move ahead with mostly Youngsters; and a Select few of decade the modena bronze and the ts.

I wish to thank everyone involved recently who gave us many hours of Discussion... to create our Minds eye for 2005 breeding season; but more so, our ability to handle , in a most proficient way... to propagate those lost TYPE THREES, and their et tal which included the ability to walk; and LOL..looking upon a simple blue checker today and seeing a large tail, certainly up typed; still unmoulted tho; no matter.. he is from a type three saturated Checker hen which is all Visual..Her legs..iffy by even my vision..still his UP TYPE phenotype is a sight.. whist his sire is a taller, head in the air, white bar cock with a larger tail than most..He show not a feather of his ts breeding. We call these a 'CROW" tho, crows are black with beetle green sheen... ====================================================== The shortness of keel.. all fantail genomes.. but certainly not the effects of Frill infusions; but, maybe, that of those Modenas that were so small, that they may have reinforced...these culls were red..they came from York Show in 1960's....

I found that using pure red fantails was more of a row to hoe than using the pure blues( had nothing good in blacks and they were blue based anyway)The saddles also came from the same alignments. ======================================================


WHere has time flown? In Febuary, The 27th to be exact..We would have been with ESTATE LOFTS, HOME of RARE and STANDARD COLORED FANTAILS, with their MARKINGS and a 50 YEAR Anniversary !

This is not about Moi? This is about all those FANCIERS that contributed to this young man's LIFE. It started with the PGNL, edited by Dr WILLIARD HOLLANDER.and JOSEOH QUINN..Then came NEWS and VIEWS with Dave RHINEHART, and today, to date Lester Paul GIBSON...OHIO and his PIGEON GENETICS NEWS LETTER.

Each COLOR/Marking Challenge has been met by INFORMATION from Lester PAUL GIBSON. Today he is the FANCY's GUIDING LIGHT into the Genetics of Pigeons and their COLORATIONS.

I expect that the GENEPOOLe should make PAUL (pigeongibs) a MEMBER of the FANTAIL GENEPOOLE...??

Sufficing to say , in our mind is the identification of ts1//ts1 as ma//ma or Modena bronzing. The most recent inspiration to this Fancier : That ts pushes the frill stencil expression and is the control of penatrance!

Paul...I think your ts//ts three gene theory is incorrect!!!! LOL... it is likely more complex than three pairs???

Thank you, OLD FRIEND..May GOD BLESS. bob

Let us DEFINE this Charcoal of ODELL #7 ! A NEW TYPE FANTAIL NUMBER 7 HAS THE PROPER VISUAL; NUMBER 7 BODEE ROUNDNESS ;NUMBER 7 HAS WING LINES AND LEG LINES(OLD word.. THIGH SHOWING/TO BE CORRECTED BY CHAIRMAN OF NATIONAL BOARD.) NUMBER 7 or number 10; HAS PROPER POCKET; Head placement...:: but how can we understand that number 7 dipicts idealism, without any degree of 'short coupling' I reference Spockman ARTICLE on head location inside or outside the circle of roundness'. ( As the head is located towards the Frontal break line, so is there an increase in short coupling;likewise, as seen in the TYPE rendering from ARENA, called 'VISION' , as well #7) and later Drawings ..we call the TRI VIEWS from Bill O'Dell... NUMBER 7,10 HAS IT ALL/ET TAL! NUMBER 7,10 HAS THE ABILITY TO walk..AND WILL! NUMBER 7,10 IS A TYPE THREE DIMENSIONAL FANTAIL WITH THE proper BUILD! It has roundness, so that we can define proper legs , AS DEFINED , BY THOSE THAT INTERPRET THE WORD round FROM ANY ANGLE!: NUMBER 7 IS NOT SHORT COUPLED , THEREFORE Reach IS EXPECTED, AS WELL NOTE INCREASED UNDER BELLY LINE. ( ALL KEYWORDS MENTIONED BY Forefathers OR STANDARD.excepting REACH....

We have but one Question? It was asked before in an e mail from Spock...awhile back..a decade?? How will we JUDGE the transition or intermediate prototypes; especially since TYPE ones had been without the ABILITY to WALK? Few TYPE ONES EXIST..these are now intermediate phenoTYPEs, but short coupling is the problem with the smaller ones deficient in bodee depth.

Where does my point on JUDGING come from.. FALCONI!! From his web page... We have to be open minded and I am certain that my FRUSTRATION is less than that of Falconi... If we understand his frustration..then we can also understand the FRUSTRATION of many an Exhibitor.

How do we JUDGE for the best fantails that will direct our BREEDERS towards the VISUAL in #7..? Do we give the nod to types that will send us backwards, and totally confuse our Exhibitors? Can we used the build and Visual as a basis for our choices? Is the ABILITY to WALK going to happen on a round , low bodied phenotype; if certain types are NOT going anywhere?; which phenotypes can a JUDGE choose.. and is it not his call ?; is it not his call on the most Balanced?

MY OPINION, at this time: Firstly, I am looking to breed for #7 and Arena's VISION for its extreme'! We are looking for the Balanced fantail that might compete; alas if I were to JUDGE; I would pick the ones with the proper VISION, that were the most Balanced( most POINTS) and cut points for the ability( not the INABILITY, nor the Walking ability of up types without bodee depth or extremely short coupled; TODAY, we might have little choice but to pick the NORTHERN ALLIANCE FANTAILS...Most balanced, and most likely to succeed in giving us #7. But, maybe not without a lot of culling...?? this method a distinctive disadvantage! ( I did see, and study the thigh?? length( at 50-55mm) a particular Champion of Ben's. She was a little marvel and TYPE THREE..might be if she had another 5mm or so of thigh length? and a tad longer leg.. she would be there!

next point? This white with some silver feathering is POSTED..on the Spockman URLS. She looks different in the POsting. I mean type two? Nothing like I saw her two days in a row... The point is..if we can see the type two of the yellow saddle rendering and then look to both the #7 and the VISION ash red from POLLY meat & feather thru Arena rendering...Then I can go for this breeding SEASON using any TYPE of good fantails to go for #7.or 10.

On the other hand is the ones like #7, that come of the fatso genomes,plus, the TYPE TWO BULL TYPES..that when CONDITIONED and in a state of health & well being will roll down and VIOLA!! In this situation we also will not be fighting short couple, reduced bodee depth, and the Visual... well now...#7!

So with all these UNLIKES, and with many TYPES( which I clearly define( Ie differences between fatso's and creepers, cripples and short weak hocked legs from widly set legs, that is hocked because the hen was bred to save a fanciers face in the showroom?; TYPE ONES, TYPE TWO"S AND TYPE THREES(LOL might have a few of them? might not..? None the is HOW you point blend.. )And, for those who still think they can SELECT to #7 using inbred LIKES...forget it..I have bred a family of type ones to type two's and threes for 7 yrs.. and they still throw the big tails, and the small ones.. the funny legs and the proper legs..(NOTING THAT such observations are with less short couple and increased bodee depth..with proper legs becoming more proper as we elude short couple( or as Vincent once tried to explaine to me...The further the head to the frontal( break line) , inside the circle of roundness; the greater the short coupling and the build must be changed from low up types to low bulls.

Give me one in every color class, here at MckTasia and I will pick it best.. and no one, not even me will have any grievience.

We must see that legs are the FOUNDATION;but that it must be on a round body; the low rounder, must then show the proper VISUAL of bodee height/roundness to the top tail. Proper pocket cannot be attained on short coupled, no under-belly line and little REACH.. Those that let down, may or may not be of the accepted BUILD #. Number 7 has the proper build. Number 7 is a low rounder...with the ability to walk and stay together..when they let down, it is because of incomplete athletic ability's , but.they to can let there fatigue.Should we pick a lesser balanced ? It is the JUDGES ability to determine if any entry has the ability to WALK...a proper build and Visual that will spear head us onward to Perfection.

THIS PAGE IS DEDICATED TO THE FANCIER who has contributed the most to our LIFE with Fantails. A HELMET BREEDER, boyhood FRIEND with insights beyond the Norm This page is dedicated..... :


Fertility is an important aspect of Creating. Mostly we cut the tails like that of a Roller Pigeon., save the hens are shorter than the cocks. We also cut, after an infertile round below the sex feathers on the hens. We find that NOT removing/cutting the sex feathers above the Vent is critical. The rear cushion on them, as well those pants at either side can block fertilization. These areas seem to be no problem for some, while others need to learn.

The toes and feet need to be free of guano balls so the cocks can TREAD properly. Guano in improperly constructed nests, their use of excessive numbers of feathers coupled with reduced AIR FLOW in 4 inch deep nests , which prevents crawl outs in cooler weather; the most critical time being at pin stage and unopened; losses can also be avoided at this time( unopened pin feather stage) by feeding late the night before or at the crack of dawn. It , however can be with the use of large and deep FEEDERS..maintained and kept a Day ahead in high energy feed.

PROPER NUTRITION is paramont in good fertility. FERTILITY can be mechanical and Personel Problems; these are few and insignificant..and when a Good ONE seems so; we have waited 3-6 years for babies...

If is was not for my RETIRED OLDIES, both COCKS and Hens this YEAR...We would be out more RARES than we are......that's 10 years old...the OLDIES BUT GOODIES. In the Process of moving FORWARD, we can also move backward; or they cycle up and down, and REVERT to Wild TYPE....Some years are low in Quality...but when they come HIgh, most are high quality.. We might get into BREEDING later ?? WORMS of any type will affect Fertility; litterly causing havoc and total FRUSTRATION.Descriptively, the eggs that are FERTILE turn black..We call DE's..DEAD EMBRO'S; pipping youngsters fail to hatch; then if we hatch a couple, with these high losses; Mother nature gives us everything but what we want?; Don't worry, she always does!

We think Worming several times before BREEDING and during only if Season is slow!We begin, with rotation among the Bendazoles and the Ivermectins or Tramisol. Bendazoles are in the Horse Wormers.They are Soluble pastes. Figure 100mgs per gallon. SEE measuring ring.

Bendazoles are best if we treat during breeding Season. Ivermectins orally can cull day olds, and deform week olds. Tramisol should be watched in SUMMER and a dose of 0.8 per gallon , which is low end of 1.2 per gallon in Winter..LD50 is close to effective dose, and once culled Johnie Blaines Tumblers! Holding the water 36 hours is quite effective , before WORMING; still some will be a QOD treatment, or keep in front of them two bad situations.

We like to remember that Wormers are NOT 100% effective..and; some miss the intermediate stages completely. Worming should be done religiously! It can take a year or more to Condition the breeding Stock? HAIR WORMS are sneaky and smaller..I have experienced both Large rounds and HAIR.. Bottom LINE, it effects only the ones that are loaded'..and symtoms are tough to define for Disease to treat . Disease comes from the destruction of a conditioned Flock..WORMS are a Large source of STRESS!

STRESS brings them down, so the Diseases can come up.Like the WORMS, Diseases are always their waiting, to rise up..The Antibiotics don't help much unless we combine them. An OUNCE of prevention is worth a pound of CURE..." Also quoteing: " Give them what they need and they will do the rest."

Preventative medicine or Proper Management is KEY! Acidify the droppings with Coccistat. Cocci is the number one problem these days in baby losses? Canker comes only after the coccidia...??

Once we have worms under control and use follow up procedures every 7-28 days as a routine, we can look to some mechanical problems, which are not the Priority..A simple old/ young , cross mating can give the experience needed.

Nutrition in the water. Something which produces organic acidity in their droppings ( Actic Acid..Vinegar) is not sometimes enough with certain inbred individuals, or out of condition fans. We like to feed cod liver oil on the feed with probiotics from the calf Electrolytes..(gel form) and a good vit/mineral mix. Still, there's not enough Calcium and certain B vitamins..or IODINE ( Iodine was what was in the 'Magic bottle' in Spring. i suggest Provine iodine ., about a drop in 5 gallons daily!The addition of a brand name Stress Vitamin is a big plus..

Stress from breeding, Worms, and crowding can be greatly reduced with use of mega B Vitamins/ Biotin/ Choline etc..

The Calcium can come from several sources, and certainly should. Cal chips(limestone) with minerized SALT for Cows is a good addition, moisrened a little; the calcium in Centrum at 1/2 tab per treatment before laying to both sexes with a cod liver oil; and the probiotics also have some, as well..

AIR FLOW and LIGHT.. SUN LIGHT is best.. BUT.. light from any source is better than dark and poor AIR FLOW. "LIGHT INHIBITS the growth of these Disease does the acidic droppings is a coccidastat..S typhi..and the good bacteria, which are red or black also fill up the intestines and prevents over-growths of them 'bad boys' Hence the old ounze of prevention is worth a POUND..of CURE.

When a pair continues to produce clear eggs..look closely at the vent for matted, unclean feather swab with provine iodine or corn oil and carbolic acid..NAYLORS RED ..

The Lice that are under and behind and run fater than the eye will disrupt, as will mill worms and their adults.. DE's dead embros'. a lack of Iodine and Riboflavin will also stop a good pipping.

We also let such a pr feed a babe' for at least the milk run..If this don't get it... Cut them .. naaaa.. Let them pick a mate in the bull pen( or let'em think they did?!) Move them out of the confinement of Individual cages. Infifelity can be noted in a heterozygous color pen.

A cross bred will straighten out any hold outs, if it is mechanical'; still NUTRTION, and therfore WORM control( internal and external parasites) is the Pryority.

Watch the nesting material of feathers.. The quano will set on top and coat the eggs..dip in vinegar water and gently remove this accumulation..



, under the guiding hands of ANDREW KERNS will pick up the leading edge for the Fantail. His intentions are clear.. his methods are intense!

Andrew has put together colored Bulletins which are expensive..Quite enjoyable for many of us who do not have time for a PC...And easy to re reread without all this 'techno BS'!

REACH is what differientiates the 'STRAIGHT LEG' WHICH HAS TO BE LONGER;from the APPLE ON A STICK! lOCKED LEGS DENOTES ANOTHER STRAIN AND IS CALLED 'BAD HOCKS' AND THE LIKE.. REACH comes only when the THIGH, the bone out of the pelvis, does NOT run straight down; but, extends FORWARD. The rest of the leg ( right now for a lack of tarsus terminology) drops straight down and is to be 'locked in' to show desired straightness .

bVincents explanation of Pelvis build to THIGH is like your belly dropping between your THIGHS in a crouched position. A beer belly best describes it! ( this was a PollY analogy..In fact, it was thru Spock and Polly discussions that we first heard these explanations; and these were the result of seeing the LANCE C. bones robot; which nobody seemed interested......

I will add to this as time permits , as well rewrite it for clearer meaning. In the meantime we prevail upon you all to check out VINCENT's URL's , that can be found on the AROUND THE WORLD PIGEON the bottom of any received POST.

JOIN JJ's LIST by going to YAHOO and AROUND THE WORLD of FANTAILS..under JOIN this LIST. THE LIST has over 100 MEMBERS WORLD WIDE. IT also has quite a few OLD GOATS that will answer. discuss queries from our NEWBY's.

John McClanahan from our old EFC DAYS is RETIRED and back in FANTAILS. He is adding quite a bit of interest and so are others from AUSTRALIA.


My 293 modtail ribbontail Family is lost; it turns out that 293, ribbontail ..not Ash, not indigo, but leb bronze left a hen we call a crow, not silver-backed(cushion)but still fs//+. 293 a rec red ts1//ts1( modena bronze CT//CT ) pushes the fs//+ squared to a ratio of 2:1..verses less than 2:1 with non modena bronze upgrades for fs//fs frill lace/ribbon tails; we expect that leb bronze is also a factor in the big push to white expression of both ts and fs.. One to to the other and synergistic. Some ponder these ilregular ratios..These are real life ratios, not artificially induced by scientists in a study atmosphere..



UP TYPE' IS , AT BEST A VAGUE TERM? Down shod is another. Low rump and other physics of questionable under-carriage; still this can be corrected in a single mating; while SHORT COUPLE is a much longer Row to hoe!!

Up types, without bodee depth are still a foundation. Preferred, would be a 'bull'(the bull is uniquely longer in fore and aft dimensions, therefore adding to the "meat & feather ILLUSION of Roundness, not seen in the individual shape of the norm 'keel', same is not what we have in our fantails) Uptype.. larger, but with family breeding they will come down in size. The point blending is always critical; that Selection of your Best, and using Best to strickly a road to demise, unless we have access to other bloodlines to maintain a positive point blend. When we try to build all the pieces in a single family; while culling per Sixer mentality?; better we look to owr own culls as possible very USEFUL in maintaining a continuing Point blending of LIKES and Unlikes; for once we restrict our genepool to likes; invaribly the Inbreeding Coe goes way up; and we have to find some pieces to continue our good work. besides. we have inbred and must break this apart without losing our nucleus base of positives( General Requirements are key to our understanding) Recently we introduced the Mutant Sixer Theory into our lofts. Since we easily recognize the pitfalls of any Breeding Plan; we decided to cut the low enders. Assuming that each class was very deep in quality; we could not cut any deeper; and at the same time felt safe to use these seconds. called USEFULS in IOWA. The toppers.. the best of the best in TYPE and breeding ability( prepotency is not indignent to just superior, but also inferior phenotypes! ) The best to their unrelated, or related best..with point blending in mind for both TYPE ans well for Marking.. but not for coloration; save that splashes, under-marks with exception type find a zwh mate; all the colors are disreguarded..and always have been! We don't forget UNder-carriage and their Ability to WALK while in motion and holding the VISUAL.(low bodee, round bodee to a positive TOP TAIL.)We look to mate the best to the best, just within a single Family will lead to degradation of our elite..and a demise in our Nucleus( without cherry picking)( ALSO POINT IS LOST NEW'S WHO DO SO WELL WITH BLOODLINES FROM SEVERAL SOURCES AND MOVE TO SIXER-hood and see their best go down the preverbial drain. And, they quit!! The number of Topper pairs is limited by..a simple factoring of a proper mate. ; no matter the inbreeding coe..but we do go away to another Family the following year.. this doubles our chances becuse we have positives in 'Quads,, from squares...We never disolve a Fmily once we get Topper class! each Family must retain its individual idenity, if we are to depend on home bred birds to continue the point blend. Proper culling is only done after a moult...late hatches are never culled. late hatches are sometimes necessary in a poor season! hence we assume that. unlike most; that we have top end and bottom ends after culling; and that these bottom enders are 80% of our total; that we have within this 80% a very high mean point average( verses the usual.. why keep'em and just have to cullem and ALL their babes' next year.. Good positive Sixer mentality..if we tested them prior to such drastic decision! It is not the Totallity of the individual, but that we pick a proper mate; from which, and by which;we have bred and have a certain Knowledge of the genome. This 80%, is the life of a Genepooler; but..too many is going to take you down faster than homozygosity? We went to a Division called SWAG Mating: An atempt to understand the bronzes, the z' locus and other bronzing...kite.. leb bronze, stenciling and an uncomplicated understanding of the most likely point blending to manipulate the PIGEON color genome to the exactness of our minds eye.. like Orange brander, or CT modena bronze.. or Russett with Indigo..the Tri colors is an understatement of Real Life with quad colors and to the n with TYPE.. all within the genology of the Pigeon... Beyond the SWAG's., comes those that have not been mated, but.. score too high on the Standards total points to be wasted!!! Alas, the Toppers are in, even a sib mating! NO Room...darn you wasting that one over yonder in the BULL PEN...waste NOT, want not.. Wehave found that hens placed in a pen prior to cocks ( Bronson) is a great way to reduce to zero the staking of a claim by ruthless cock birds; that white will mate to white or splash; blue to blue and ash to to black or red..but.. they don't seem to see the indigo; OR.. set a premise in so many cocks and so many bull cocks to fatso hens in one pen; or ts cocks to a certain type of ts bred hens Etc...