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Jason Russell Interview
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Neo-Gen: Thanks for taking the time out to do this interview, Jason. First off, let's get to know you a bit. Can you tell us about your background in the martial arts?
Jason Russell: Thanks, Steve, for allowing me the opportunity to let the North Carolina martial arts community know a little about my background and my school.
I am a third degree black belt in judo and jujitsu. I started judo at the age of five and I am now twenty eight. I grew up on the mat learning judo from my father Randy Russell (7th dan), who is still active. My father has been active in judo for forty two years and his club is located in Columbia, MO. I have benefited greatly from his travels and experience.
I have been able to train and compete with some of the best judo players in the world. I am still competing at local, regional and national events but am starting to slow down from competition. Before moving to Greenville I was an assistant coach to my father and the head coach for the University of Missouri Judo Club. I am currently on the board for North Carolina Judo Inc., the state governing body for judo in North Carolina, which is overseen by USA Judo, the governing body for judo in the United States.
NG: Has your training taken you to any interesting places?
JR: Absolutely, I have had many opportunities to train all over the United States and abroad. Whenever I travel I always take my gi. I have trained in England, the Netherlands and in many US states. I spent five months in Norman, OK, training at USA Stars Olympic training facility; which is run by Pat Burris, a two time Olympian and several time national champion.
Since I've moved to North Carolina I have tried to make it to as many judo and jujitsu schools as I can to train. The best part of judo is getting to travel and meet new people and make long lasting friendships. People in the judo community have always had the attitude of traveling and meeting people and sharing training to try and make one another better judoka and citizens in general.
NG: What are some of your experiences training in different places?
JR: I have had so many different experiences training in different places. I would have to say the best part of traveling is that when you go to another place to train you never know who will be there. I have been at small clubs and they will have a former international champion from Korea or another country. That's one of the things that makes traveling fun. We joke around in the judo community that the best players are at home, not at the Olympics. There is some truth to this.
NG: What are your thoughts on the current state of Judo in the United States today?
JR: For those that don't know, the United States has three major judo organizations, United States Judo Federation, Untied States Judo Association and USA Judo. USA Judo is the national governing body for judo in the United States. This means that the International Judo Federation, which is the governing body for judo in the world only recognizes USA Judo. The International Olympic Committee only recognizes the International Judo Federation and the national governing bodies that are members of the International Judo Federation.
Saying all that, US judo for years has been somewhat disorganized by all three originations and the feuding between them has left many judoka disfranchised.
However in the last few years USA judo has turned it's self around with a new President and management and has made leaps and bounds. The most recent improvement is hiring a new executive director, who has direct experience with the International Olympic Committee. USA judo is also working more with a grass roots movements and trying to publicize judo more, which we greatly need.
NG: In your opinion, how does US Judo compare to the rest of the world?
JR: Compared to the rest of the world USA judo is not yet where it could be. We have a lower number of judoka than most countries, but the numbers and participation are rising quickly. This shows that we are on the right track. Judo worldwide is exploding though. One hundred-eighty-six countries have memberships in the International Judo Federation and in the Olympics judo has the highest number of countries competing. In France alone there are over a million judo players. Many top judo tournaments are played on television in many countries as well, which helps.
NG: To my knowledge, the Judo community in North Carolina is relatively small. Is this the case or am I misinformed?
JR: North Carolina has a fairly large judo community, the largest being in the Triangle and it is growing.
NG: What aspects of the NC Judo community do you think needs to change? What will make it bigger and better in the long run?
JR: North Carolina Judo is actually in better shape than most states. We all support each other's events and communicate with one another on events and tournaments so we can try and pull everyone together without trying to conflict events. We also have meetings at each event so we are all informed about what is going on in the state and nationally.
NG: I know that in Japan, Judo is offered as a sport in schools just like football and baseball is offered here in the United States. Do you feel like the children of our country could benefit from having Judo programs developed within the school systems?
JR: Judo is also offered in the schools in Korea and Russian President Vladimir Putin, who is a judoka, just made judo part of the physical education curriculum to be taught in their school system. I think judo would be an excellent alternative sport for young kids to learn; of course I am being biased. Hawaii already has judo in their school systems, probably because they have a very strong Japanese contingent in Hawaii. I think all students should have the opportunity to have more choices than just football, baseball, basketball, and soccer. Not all students want to play a team sport. Wrestling and track are the only alternatives. Kids deserve more choices. But of course it just doesn't have to be judo.
NG: How would this differ from the amateur wrestling programs that are offered in some schools?
JR: Wrestling is almost nearly an all boy's sport, although more girls are participating. Where judo differs is that it is a coed sport. There are already a lot of woman judoka, so girls would have competition amongst themselves. Some of the female wrestlers have to compete with male wrestlers. I don't see how that will get many females interested. But I hope that will change for female wrestlers and they will get more participants. Judo can be played forever. My father is fifty six and still randoris.
NG: On the subject of wrestling in comparison to judo, it seems that many high level amateur wrestlers also cross train with Judo to get better at their sport. What do you feel is the distinct difference in what a person can do with Judo techniques versus wrestling techniques? How would these two styles combine?
JR: Not only do high-level amateur wrestlers also cross train with Judo, but many judo players cross train with wrestling. Judo and wrestlers have always had a good relationship. Many wrestlers see the similarities between the two. Many wrestlers after high school or even college have no outlet for their sport, but judo gives them an opportunity to continue to compete and continue to grapple.
The difference between judo and wrestling techniques is that nearly everything you can do in wrestling you can do in judo, but when you throw on a uniform there are more techniques possible and things get harder. The learning curve is more difficult. Not to say judo is harder that's not the case. Wrestling is just as hard. You just have to worry about a lot more techniques in judo. Plus we have chokes and armbars which wrestling doesn't.
NG: In the same area of comparison, how does Judo compare with other grappling arts such as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?
JR: Judo, Brazilian jiu jitsu, and other grappling arts are all similar but they all have their own rules. I believe judo has a more complete standing game. Since all the grappling arts start standing I feel that people should focus on throws a little more than they do. In judo, our ground game is solid and is a much faster pace. We are not allowed much time on the mat unless we are making progress. Time restrictions are there to keep the action going and helps to get people to watch matches. People like to see big throws or a fast transition into mat work. It can be a little boring watching a match where two people are doing mat work and are stalled. In judo we focus on the transitions from standing to the mat. Also in judo when we pin someone, we have to hold them down for twenty five seconds and we cannot use leg locks.
NG: It seems like a lot of Judo purists believe that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is merely an extended version of Judo ground fighting techniques. What is your opinion on this?
JR: I believe it is. But that's not important. I think judo and jiu jitsu are similar but defined by their rules. I think too many grappling martial artists spend too much time thinking about and arguing which art is better and what technique came from where. Who cares? Most in the grappling community will say Brazilian jiu jitsu is better at mat work and they are true revolutionaries when it comes to matwork. The other half might say judo is the trend setter. But no one talks about the Russian judoka and sambo players and their influences. We know them quite well in the judo community. They are the ones that have had the greatest influence on ground fighting.
NG: I have heard many things about the influence of the Russian style within the Judo world. It would be nice to hear from someone who is more educated on the subject. Please tell us a bit about the effect and influence of the Russian Judoka and Sambo players. Have you ever trained with any Russian players?
JR: I have had the opportunity not only to train but also compete with judoka from Russia and the former Soviet block. I have trained on several occasions with Igor Kurinnoy. He was a three time World Cup gold medalist in Sambo and 1992 European judo champion. I also trained with Alexander Yakoylev. He is a Russian Olympic coach for judo.
For those of you that haven’t had the privilege to workout or compete against the Russians or former Soviet block competitors, it’s an eye opener. The Russians are very strong physically and mentally. They are all business when it comes to training and competing. They are well rehearsed when they get on the mat. They take their sports very seriously.
The Russian judoka made their big splash on the judo scene in 1960’s when judo was being considered for the Olympics. The Russians saw another path for their athletes to receive gold medals. It wasn’t long before Samboists and Russian judoka were entering judo competitions and training all over the world. After judo was officially an Olympic sport the Russians saw Sambo as a dead end. The Russian Samboist knew they could get more funding if they changed their clubs to judo, because it is an Olympic sport. It really sealed the fate for most Sambo clubs when they saw the Japanese judoka competing and winning at the World Sambo Championships in the early 1970’s.
What made Russians so successful in the earlier years and today is their unorthodox gripping. Most judoka at the time still gripped in a traditional manner with one hand on the collar and one on the sleeve. The Russians on the other hand, grip over the back and use cross grips. They also fought with an extreme right or extreme left stance. Many of the traditionally trained judoka didn’t know how to defend against this type of gripping. The Russians also were using entire new techniques that hadn’t been seen before, such as flying arm bars. Many of the Russians were using pick ups and leg grabs. They were also fanatic about winning. Russians didn’t care much for the formalities of the art of judo. There mentality was, if the technique worked, use it; even if it went against the grain of traditional judo.
Before the resurgence of judo popularity in Russia, Sambo was widely practiced. Sambo has only been around since 1938 and was the creation of the Communists in the U.S.S.R. With Sambo, the Soviet Union essentially renamed judo and changed certain aspects of the sport including the dress Samboists wear wrestling type shoes and shorts instead of long pants. The Soviets. restructured many aspects of life in this manner, they did not want outside influences. Because the Soviet Union was isolated from the rest of the world; the judo and Sambo players were on their own to develop judo as they thought it should be practiced. The Russians started to incorporate their traditional wrestling into judo or Sambo. The traditional wrestling styles varied upon the region such as Kosh, Gulesh and Kuriash.
Before Sambo, the original form of judo was prevalent in Russia. Judo was brought to Russia in 1914 by Vasily Oshchepkov. Vasily learned judo in Tokyo, Japan and received his second degree belt while there. Vasily quickly spread judo through out the Soviet Union. In 1932 a 165,000 people had received basic judo lessons under the government.
NG: I have read much information from online sources dealing with the style of Kosen Judo. I even have a video of an old instructional with Masahiko Kimura and Kyuzo Mifune demonstrating techniques of this style. It looks very similar to a lot of the BJJ grappling that I have seen. I would like your opinion, as a Judoka, on how or why these Kosen Judo ground techniques were "overlooked" for so many years by the majority of the Judo community.
JR: These techniques have not been overlooked by the judo community. All things, and judo is no exception, evolve. New techniques are invented or reinvented. Some techniques are in vogue and then are discarded for awhile but eventually they come back.
NG: Is this a problem of dojos teaching more of "sport oriented" judo rather than "traditional" Judo as developed by Jigoro Kano?
JR: The majority of clubs in the US are still traditional, but competition has always been a part of judo even from its conception. Dr. Kano frequently held competitions.
NG: I have also read that in the original Kodokan judo curriculum, leglocks and striking were taught along with all other techniques. Most people are not aware of this. Is this the same Judo that you were taught? How does this methodology of removal of techniques water down the art?
JR: Judo is a progressive martial art and is constantly changing. Most of the techniques that were banned, such as leg locks and striking, were banned for the safety of individuals participating. As the rules change, techniques change and new techniques are formed or variations are made on existing ones. Change doesn't water the sport down, it just makes it more exciting and challenging to keep up with what's going on in the world of judo.
NG: In the mention of using strikes and leglocks in Judo, Judoka of high caliber have been making waves in Mixed Martial Arts competition over the past couple of years. Fighters like Karo Parisyan of the USA and Hidehiko Yoshida of Japan have beaten top fighters in their respective weight classes. What do you think of the use of Judo in Mixed Martial Arts competitions? Do you think it will benefit the art?
JR: There is no question that these mixed martial arts fight get attention. But is it the right attention? I don't think so. I personally don't like mixed martial arts matches. The judoka fighting in these competitions are older and past their prime. That is why they got out of judo and they have nothing to prove. They have paid their dues. This goes not just for judo but for Brazilian jiu jitsu practitioners, boxers, and wrestlers. I respect other martial arts and I don't need to prove to a Brazilian jiu jitsu fighter that I think I'm better any more than he needs to prove to me that he thinks he's better. We all practice different arts and they are all great.
I think most of the athletes are doing it for money. And I can't demonize a man for trying to make a buck. Mixed martial arts do not show anybody's sport is a martial art in the proper way in which it should be participated.
NG: With the total evolution of the sport of MMA, many people have scoffed at the idea of Judo being an effective martial art inside the ring or cage. What are your opinions on this?
JR: It is effective and has been proven by Yoshida, Kimura and many others. But I still don't think its right.
NG: So, do you think that the sport of MMA is a negative thing in regards to opening people's eyes to other arts such as Judo?
JR: I think it is negative. A perfect example would be the Yoshida vs Gardner fight. For those of you that didn’t see the match. Both competitors stood there and tried to box. It turned out to be the worst boxing match I have seen. Why were two grapplers trying to box one another? Neither of them showed their talent in their sport or how effective their sport is against another style. It just proved that two world class athletes in grappling can’t box. How did this contest help either of them get more wrestlers or judoka to join their sport? I don’t think wrestling and judo schools were flooded the next day from people who saw that fight.
I wouldn’t mind if the matches were closer in style and both contestants could agree upon the rules; such as grapplers fighting without punching or kicking and strikers fight without grappling. I would have loved to see Gardner and Yoshida grapple one another. I think most people that watched that fight thought that’s what they would get.
I am all about cross training, I do it myself. I have and continue to work with practitioners of wrestling, sambo, Brazilian jiu jitsu and other styles. We have a lot to learn from one another because of the similarity. That’s why I host open workouts for judo, jujitsu and grappling practitioners. But I don’t train in the striking arts because it doesn’t advance my judo or grappling skills.
I can’t figure out why people in mixed martial arts matches need to prove that one martial art or sport is better than another. This argument of who is better will never be won. Enjoy the art or sport you do and try and make that sport grow within not by trying to prove you’re the toughest guy on the block. Martial arts and sports are grown on a grass roots level by individuals who care about what they do. They don’t need to prove anything but their love of their sport or martial art and project this to the community.
NG: To take a turn in the interview here, tell us a bit about your dojo. Where are you located? Do you teach any other styles of martial arts besides Judo?
JR: East Carolina Judo, Jujitsu and Grappling is the name of our club and we are located in Greenville, NC at 2800 suite109 E 10th St.. We have our classes at the Bemjo Martial Arts Center which has just recently moved to a new location.
We have a very large mat area dedicated to judo and have been able to accommodate many students. Besides judo, I also teach jujitsu classes. The other programs at the Bemjo Martial Arts Center are karate, tae kwon do, boxing and kickboxing. The move has been great for our club, it's in a busy street and we are already getting a higher enrollment.
NG: What was the main reason for you to open up a dojo in Eastern North Carolina?
JR: I moved to Greenville because of my wife's job, she is a veterinarian here. That's how we got to this part of the country. I own a painting business. When I moved out here there were no judo classes in Greenville, so I couldn't have that and here we are. It took awhile to find a place and get things going but now things are going great.
NG: Can you share with us a bit of your teaching philosophy?
JR: I try and ingrain the basics into my students. I want them to have a good foundation and learn effective techniques safely. I want to keep the classes fun and not repetitive. I want people coming out of my classes feeling good and having enjoyed the physical, mental and social benefit of the sport.
NG: For prospective students, what can they expect to learn at your dojo?
JR: I want them to have a solid framework for their education. Hopefully, many students will want to go on to compete and learn more advanced techniques and the rules of competition. Our club etiquette is still traditional. For those who don't choose to compete we focus on the art.
NG: Since your dojo has been active, you have hosted several training sessions open to all grapplers. How have these clinics worked out for you?
JR: We have had a good response and each session gets bigger. The workouts are great everyone definitely leaves tired. Back in Missouri we had monthly open workouts throughout the state and that is what I am trying to get started here. You can't get better just working out with the same people over and over. The North Carolina Judo and Jujitsu community need to have these types of open workouts.
I'm not saying that instructors aren't good and their students need to go to an open workout to learn something they are not getting at their dojo. What I am saying is that you need to train with as many different people as you can. Tournaments are great but you only may have one or two matches. Going to an open workout allows one more time to see what they need to work on. They can go back to their own instructors and work out the kinks. Hopefully we can also share knowledge between styles of judo and jujitsu players from different backgrounds.
NG: Any plans for more sessions in the future?
JR: Absolutely, we are having one Saturday, Oct. 29 at our gym.
East Carolina Judo, Jujitsu and Grappling
Open Workout
Sat. Oct. 29 1:00-3:30
Instructor: Jason Russell
Cell# 252-258-7994
Home#252-551-9155
This is not a clinic. It will be strictly randori and provide a rigorous training session for North Carolina judoka and jiu-jitsu practitioners. The workout will be half standing and half doing matwork. Adults and High School age students only. This workout is open to all grapplers and is free. The location is:
Bemjo Martial Arts Center
2800 suite109 10th St.
Greenville, NC 27836
Directions: Coming from the Raleigh area, take 40 North to 64. 64 runs into 264. When leaving the Knightsdale area on 64 you will need to look for the Greenville Exit to 264, it is about 5 or 10 minutes past Knightsdale. 264 will take you straight into Greenville.
When you come into Greenville take exit 73 B, then 264 East Alt. this will take you around Greenville. When you come to 10th St. turn right, the dojo will be on the left in the strip mall at the first stop light. You will see our sign, Karate, Tae Kwon Do.
If you are coming from the south take Greenville Blvd. East until you come to 10th. St. and turn left, the dojo will be on the left at the first stop light in the strip mall. You will see our sign, Karate, Tae Kwon Do.
NG: Jason, I thank you for the interview opportunity. Is there anything else you'd like to add?
JR: Thank you Steve for this opportunity and I hope to see you and others on the mat soon.
NG: Thanks for your time, Jason. God bless.
JR: Thank you and take care.
(interview conducted by Steve Loftin 22Oct05)
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