This is the post-match/wrap-up interview that Garry Kasparov gave after
Game # 4. November 18th, 2003.
is the closing interview that GM Garry Kasparov gave with the ESPN
Team of commentators, (GM Maurice Ashley,
GM Yasser Seirawan, Author/computer
expert Paul Hoffman); shortly after
the end of game four with the computer program, Fritz_X3D.
in brackets show action that occurred or things that were not said, but
also have used "three-dots-in-a-row" quite a bit. This is used
to show a slight pause.
(Garry did a lot of pausing and gesticulating with his hands. I did my
best to make this transcript nearly word-for-word, I stopped the tape
and hit <rewind/play> … more times than I care to count.)
"With us now is the World’s # 1 player, Garry Kasparov."
<applause> "Garry – congratulations on a good finish in the
match." <Garry smiles and slightly nods his head, the audience
applauds.> "Garry, you were under tremendous pressure. You had
to come back and win <big> in Game Three, and you did."
<more clapping> Ashley: "You had never – in the last 10 or
11 games – defeated the computer with the Black pieces. So …
you must have felt even more pressure, <to win> coming in playing
in this game."
think in the next match, I should specifically request White … ah, in
the last game. Mmmmm, haunting memories, because I played Deep Blue in
’97 … and then I played Deep Fritz here." (I think Kasparov
means Fritx_X3D … please note that Kasparov’s first language is
Russian, he sometimes ‘transposes’ things in English.)
"And last January …" (A clear reference to his match with
Deep Junior.) "I spent a lot of time yesterday and this morning
trying to figure out what I had to do. Its like, ah …" <Garry
shakes his head.> "Against a human opponent, that would be like
overkill. I won game three, and I was in an excellent mood. But this
damn computer … it just doesn’t understand." <Laughter from
the audience and from the panel, especially Ashley and Seirawan.>
"It always looks for the best move. And, uh … it was a very, very
tough decision … to be made … in the preparations. Because I played
a very long game – preparing for this game." (I think that
Kasparov means that he spent many hours studying the chess board …
getting ready for this game. Specifically, I think he spent a great deal
of time looking at openings and studying the Fritz book – looking for
a possible weakness.) "So it was many, many hours … trying to figure out,
ah … deciding whether I should play risky chess … <or> whether
I should go <all out> … and die with great honor, trying to beat
the machine. And it was a very emotional morning. I spoke to my son …
my 7-year-old son , from Moscow. <And his son told Garry:> <<Daddy,
you better win today … but … you must NOT lose!!>>"
<A great deal of laughter from both the panel and the audience.>
"So … that was the order: YOU MUST NOT
LOSE!" (Garry spoke these last few words with a
great deal of emphasis.) <Laughter from the panel and the audience.
Garry pauses – then resumes speaking.> "So … that was the
order, er … <you know> a draw is good! But I was a bit surprised
when the machine played 1.d4 – I was obviously expecting e4. And then
I contemplated for a while. Maybe I should just play for a safe opening,
like the Queen’s Gambit Accepted. But also! – there were some
surprises there. The machine played a line it had never played before,
Bishop-to-f4. It played different lines." <slight pause> (I
think Garry is saying that the computer had played a different line than
it had played previously, and really the computer gained the advantage
of the surprise.)
"And I played this line once before, against Kramnik, <you
know>. I beat him nicely in a game of Rapid Chess, sacrificing the
Queen. And I guess, you know, that this was probably prepared <in
advance>. And then it looks like a very short game." <Garry
looks at Ashley, as if imploring him to understand.> (I think Garry
is saying that while it looks like a fairly quick game, <but it wasn’t
really > a great deal happened in the opening.) Kasparov resumes
speaking: "But for me it was not so much a game of chess – as it
was more of a gamble, because I did not know where the <the computer’s>
opening book ended. So for me, that was the sixty-four thousand
dollar question." (In other words, how far – and how deep
– did the computer’s opening book go? And how well had the Fritz
Team prepared the machine’s opening book?) Garry pauses slightly here.
He had been gesturing a lot with his hands, as if trying to add emphasis
to his words. Kasparov: "That’s why when the machine played Bg5,
and I played …Rb8; and it … I even asked the arbiter whether or not
the machine’s clock was ticking. Because this means that if the
machine starts thinking, then it means that the opening book is
over." (That the players have gone out of book – if the program’s
response was not instantaneous.) Kasparov continues: "So I was
relieved, <at this point> it means that there was no special
preparation in that <particular> line."
"Was it psychological warfare … on the part of the machine … to
repeat the Kramnik game; even though you won it?"
don’t know, its, its …
First of all, I also have to prepare for a number of openings."
<Hoffman can be heard agreeing in the background.>
"Its not just about the machine, but also about the human team
behind the machine."
"Sure." <He is agreeing with Garry at this point.>
"But I don’t know <where> when, and how they ended the
<opening> preparation for the machine. So that’s why the moment
I saw <that> the <opening> book was over … so I recognized
that there would be no big surprises. And … I analyzed this position
… even three years ago, and then I came back <to it> a couple of
times … looking at some <different> lines, and I saw that Black
has enough </sufficient> … defensive resources; although I think
the machine could have caused some more problems. But the big question
is: " (with great emphasis)
"WHERE DOES THE BOOK END?"
<Kasparov stops here, gives a big smile, and then nods his head.>
GM Maurice Ashley:
"Now that you have tied the match, how do you feel about … ‘Man-versus-machine’
battles … in general?"
"And when’s the rematch?"
"Its … ah … I think that the matches I played - are quite
similar. This one … and um, um, this one and the one that I played,
um, last January against Deep Junior. I think that the human player was
dominant. So when … so I had many, many opportunities … <so
many> missed opportunities … and both losses resulted from
terrible, terrible blunder(s) … that was due to tremendous pressure!
So … I was not outplayed by the computer, and I kept <you know>
a steady, steady initiative throughout both matches. So in ten games, it’s
two wins for both sides, for me and the (2) computers. So I was quite
happy with the general development of these <two> matches. So it’s
still up to me to make the difference. If I don’t make a terrible
blunder, I should win … or definitely not lose."
GM Yasser Seirawan:
"Does it concern you Garry that obviously – the computers are
getting better and better? Faster hardware – and the software … is
just BRILLIANT! I mean, all of these variables that they used to
calculate the position?"
"Oh sure, absolutely. Its quite amazing that the machine I lost to,
…" (An obvious reference to the second match with Deep Blue.)
"… is so inferior to those machines, you know. For anyone who
wants to run an experiment, you just take the <final position of>
Game Two, when I resigned, and Deep Blue actually did not see how I
could draw. Fritz finds it in two minutes! So that’s why this machine
is very, very, very good; but we are also learning! So
that’s very important … that machines are getting better, but we –
humans – are also learning and getting better. And today, I know more
about computers – MUCH more – than six years ago."
this last part Ashley could be seen talking into his headset and
GM Maurice Ashley, breaking in:
indeed are learning." Ashley then briefly re-caps the match and
"We will be back shortly to wrap things up."
end of the post-game interview with Kasparov.)
all the games ... with analysis ... on the Fritz_X3D
Wednesday; December 24th, 2003.