Adam Yauch On Tibetan Freedom, From Hub-Heaven
Heaven met with Adam Yauch at his manager's office, Nasty Little Man, in SoHo to find out why he is so devoted to Buddhism and Tibet.
Heaven: How did you get involved with Buddhism and Tibet?
Adam Yauch: In about 1988, I started studying different religions and looking at different spiritual practices. Then, I took a trip to Nepal and India and Bali to explore some of that stuff. Then, towards the end of '92 I took a second trip to Nepal. On that trip I met some Tibetan refugees, I was actually trekking in the Himalayas and they had just come over the mountains. They were on their way to India. I was really moved by meeting them. After I got back I started studying Buddhism and about the political situation in Tibet. (Very Short Primer on Tibet)
AY: The Dalai Lama was coming to the states shortly after that and I went to that teaching.
H: I heard that you got to shake his hand?
AY: Yeah, that was pretty amazing. I've met him a number of times.
H: Has he heard a lot of your music?
AY: I don't think he really listens to pop music at all. In fact, I know that he doesn't.
H: Does he sing?
AY: They don't really consider it music in that way but they do chant in the monastery. It has to do with they way they do their prayers. It is basically singing, but it's considered like a separate thing.
H: Have you chanted with him?
AY: No, I don't speak Tibetan.
H: Did you get to climb Everest?
AY: No, we took the same route the British used to take in the early days when they used to go to climb there. I think the highest we went was 16,500 feet, which is pretty high for me but I guess isn't much for Everest-climbing people.
H: What about the experience of your music being merged with the Tibetan Freedom concert?
AY: Well, in terms of my music, our band, it's always been some kind of expression of where we're at at the time. I guess that's just what I was interested in and what I'm interested in now, it just comes through in the music.
AY: It seemed that the best way to have change come about, and to raise awareness of Tibet, for me, was through music. Buy the Concert CD from Tower
H: How did all the bands react when you were trying to set it up? Were they really into it? Was it an educational experience for them as well? Or just like, 'great, we get to play in front of 30,000 people?'
AY: I think for most of them they were really psyched to do it and learn a lot about it. I think there was more hesitation for the first one because no one really knew what it was going to be like. For the second one the artists were just excited to be involved.
H: You brought over monks for the concert, right?
AY: The monks were there for another tour, but the nuns we flew over.
H: You chose Washington, D.C. for the next concert, is there a reason for that?
AY: Yeah, we mainly chose D.C. because we wanted to try to influence the political situation more. We wanted to put pressure on Clinton, Congress, and the Senate. To try to get the politicians to act more responsible and act interest of human rights.
AY: It is becoming clear that our government officials, through their actions, are demonstrating more and more they really aren't interested in human rights. We have the feeling that we really need to demand it of them. (The concert was on June 13 and 14, 1998)
H: How can people get involved?
AY: People can write letters to their local congressman, write to their Senator, or write to the President. We have this enhanced CD of the concert with letters that people can just fill out and basically you hit a button and it'll e-mail out the letters.
H: Are there personal things people can do?
AY: It's good to study the actual basis of what the Tibetan struggle is. It's based on principles of non-violence and compassion. Spend a bit of time reading about that, to try to understand why non-violence is important. The real objective is to start to understand the interdependence of all things on each other, the interconnectedness of all of us on each other. That to be destructive, to have hatred for other beings, to have anger, or jealousy, is actually self-destructive. I think it takes a while of contemplating that to begin to understand, because it might seem like a really foreign idea at first. I think that it eventually becomes clear.
H: What are the practices of Tibetan Buddhism?
AY: The interesting thing about Tibetan Buddhism is that it goes to a lot of different levels. On one level, it's very simple, but it's also one of the most complicated religions, I think that there is. There are so many different deities and they all represent different things. It's very complicated. (For more info, check out this Very Cool Site all about Tibetan Buddhism.) On the most basic level it has to do with understanding that the thing that all beings share in common is that we all seek happiness and seek to avoid suffering. It's something that we all share. I think part of the objective is to really look at other beings, even when they're your enemies, or someone that's making you angry, and to understand that they share that with you. They may be doing something that in some way is real negative towards you, but underlying that their objective is just to be happy. I think the more we can examine that the more we can see more clearly.
H: You founded Milarepa...
AY: There's actually two Beastie Boys songs, from which all the royalties go to the Milarepa Fund, that's what it was founded on. It's "Shambala" and "Boddhisatava Vow". Some of the royalties from "Alright Hear This" go to it also. We were trying to figure out what to do with the royalties since we had sampled the monks and we had also sampled the didgeridoo (a large bamboo or wooden trumpet of the Australian Aborigines) and we felt like those sounds came from the cultures more than individuals, so we wanted to do stuff to give back to those cultures.
H: Tell us more about Milarepa?
AY: Milarepa is divided into a couple of different divisions. There's a foundation which takes grant proposals and gives grants to different organizations. There's an educational part which through the educational tour tries to raise awareness about what's happening in Tibet. There's also a political action division which puts pressure on our government officials. We try to promote corporate responsibility. There's an entertainment related division.
H: Have people brought other causes to you, seeing what you've done for Tibetan Freedom?
AY: Yeah, there's a lot of things going on but I figure it's probably best for me to focus my energies on this because that I think the Tibet issue is significant to all those other causes. Because it's based on compassion and non-violence, I feel that if change comes about in what's happening in Tibet then it's gonna affect all those other things, it's gonna really set a precedent for non-violent struggle as a means to bring about change. And also, on the other hand, I think that if this struggle doesn't succeed, I think that if Tibetan culture is lost, it's a real loss to all of humanity. It's almost like a litmus test for which direction of humanity is headed in.
H: Over in Tibet, are people following your efforts? Is there news of this?
AY: Yeah, that's actually interesting. The last concert, the New York concert was broadcast on Voice of America, which is a short-wave radio program, that's actually sent from outside of Tibet but goes into Tibet. It's illegal for the Tibetans to listen to it. A lot of the younger generation was excited about it and listened to it. If you can imagine, they were huddled in quiet rooms listening on short-wave radios at really low volumes because if they were caught listening to that they'd be imprisoned and probably their families would lose their jobs. Their lives would be made very difficult. Even so they're going out of their way to try to listen to the program.
H: For people who want to get involved, is it better to get involved in a lot of different things or in one thing, where you can measure that difference?
AY: I think that there are a lot of causes that are really important that are going on in the world and I don't think that any of them should be ignored. I think the situation in Burma is definitely in need of attention. I think that this planet is way out of balance in terms of how human beings have been treating the environment. We've put the planet on the edge of destruction with all our stock-piling of nuclear weapons, dumping of nuclear waste, producing materials that don't bio-degrade, and on and on. I think that that requires a lot of people's attention. I think that they're all important.
AY: I think that Tibet is very significant and very immediate, I don't think that Tibetan culture will survive, it's been occupied for the last forty some odd years and I don't think that it's gonna survive for another forty years if something's not done quickly. It's important for a lot of people to focus their energy together now, on putting pressure on our corporations to act responsibly in terms of their business policies with China. And put pressure on our government officials to put stipulations in our trade agreements that include human rights.
H: Do you find corporations join you in that?
AY: There are some but they are few and far between. It's our responsibility as consumers to know which companies are doing what because we really give those corporations their power through purchasing. It's just important for us to realize that we're affecting world politics every time we go shopping. We're affecting human rights situations if we buy a piece of clothing made by someone in Tibet or China who's been imprisoned, or in a forced labor camp, for speaking out about freedom. We're contributing to that too by buying that product.
H: What do you think about the music industry, could they do more? From execs to artists in general...
AY: Yeah, they could definitely do more. I mean, the music industry could do more. Most of these corporations could all do more because usually the bottom line for these corporations is profit, and secondarily, helping out a little bit if they can. That bottom line really needs to shift, that's why it's so important for all of us to understand how we all relate to each other and how we affect each other. That's one of the reasons I think the Tibetan struggle is so important, because those values are so deeply ingrained in Buddhism, that once we work to help the Tibetans gain their freedom, we actually begin to learn those values.
AY: It's important to remember that the corporations are just a bunch of individuals working in a business. It's easy to demonize a corporation as this one thing that's doing all this harm in the world; but they're just people like you and me who work there. People who work in corporations need to take the strength to influence those around them and not just say, "Oh well, I just work here, that's the policy of the company." Because everyone who works at that company, just by turning the other way, is contributing to it.
AY: We all have a huge effect on everyone around us. It's really important for us not to discount that and think, "Oh I'm just a cog," because every one of us has a tremendous effect on the world around us, every day. Even if we just go to the store, the way that we act toward that person is affecting the world, because it's gonna affect that person's perception of us, and it's gonna affect the way they act towards other people.
H: What do you think about getting celebrities involved in getting media attention for causes?
AY: It's a tricky balance, but America is really focused on celebrities. So, if you wan to get the word out about something, it is a good means to do that. It has to be a careful balance because if it becomes too much about the celebrities you lose the issue and you do more harm than good. We tried to create a forum for the Tibetans to speak for themselves, allow the issue to speak for itself. We're always trying to watch the balance.
AY: I think the concerts work real well because most of the musicians really actually care about what's going on there. You're not just wheeling around a bunch of random celebrities to try to and present what's happening. It makes sense and works together.
H: Do you think celebrities have a responsibility to use their status in a good way?
AY: Well, I think everybody has a responsibility to know that what they do affects the world. With celebrities, I think it's just like having a big megaphone. Those people are affecting that many more people. When someone's a celebrity their actions are affecting a huge number of people. If they're doing something destructive it's gonna be that much more destructive, and if they're doing something positive, then, it amplifies that too.
AY: I think the most important thing is for every individual not to underestimate their own power in changing the world. I think a lot times our society is too focused on celebrities and a lot of the people who are celebrities are for ridiculous reasons. Much more in Tibetan culture, when someone's famous, it's because they were a great teacher. The thing they revere more is compassion. When someone has gone out of their to spend every bit of their energy and life benefiting other people, that's when the person becomes a great celebrity there. Here, somebody's like rich, or they can perform some tricky act, run faster than anyone else; if you put thought to it, it almost seems insignificant in comparison to revering someone for being compassionate.
