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/ Colormap • Page 5951 • {1/74} (1)Monday, 16 October 2000 [Open session]
--- Upon commencing at 9.34 a.m. (5) JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Good morning, ladies and gentlemen; good morning to the technical booth, the interpreters; good morning legal assistants and registrar. Madam Registrar, please call the case. THE REGISTRAR: This is case number IT-98-33-T, the Prosecutor (10)versus Radislav Krstic. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Thank you very much. Mr. Harmon, good morning. Can we have the appearances for this session, please? MR. HARMON: Yes. Good morning, Mr. President; good morning to (15)Your Honours; good morning to my colleagues. With me are my colleagues, Mr. Peter McCloskey, to my immediate right, and to his right, Mr. Andrew Cayley, and to my left, Ms. Kirsten Keith. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Thank you very much, Mr. Harmon. (20)Mr. Petrusic, for the Defence, please.
MR. PETRUSIC:
[Int.] Good morning, Your Honours, my
learned friends from the Prosecution. With me during these proceedings is
my colleague, Mr. Visnjic, and as from today, we will also be assisted by
Ms. Tanja Radosavljevic who will provide technical assistance during this
(25)sitting as we consider her assistance necessary. Thank you.
(5)
MR. PETRUSIC:
[Int.] Mr. President, Your Honours, as the
Defence has already indicated at the Status Conference held on the 6th and
8th of February, the Defence will make a very brief opening statement
referring to the evidence that the Defence will rely on this the course of
these proceedings.
(10)Mr. President, Your Honours, in our case the Defence will seek to
prove that General Krstic did not order, participate, or in any way
contribute to everything that happened in Glogova, Cerska, Orahovac,
Pilica, Petkovci, Kozluk, and all other locations referred to in the
indictment. We will seek to prove that there was another parallel chain of
(15)command which was concealed from sight, knowledge of General Krstic so
that he had no possible means of having any influence over it.
In the course of this case, we will provide evidence that General
Krstic throughout these events was the Chief of Staff of the Drina Corps,
and in that capacity, by orders of the Commander of the Drina Corps
(20)engaged in combat activities in Srebrenica from the 6th of July, 1995.
And upon orders from the Commander of the Main Staff of the Army of
Republika Srpska, after the fall of Srebrenica on the 11th of July, 1995,
was dispatched to engage in combat operations in and around Zepa.
The Defence will seek to prove that the purpose and plan of
(25)Operation Krivaja 95 was not to capture the town of Srebrenica, nor to
MR. HARMON: Mr. President, we believe the request by Defence
counsel is reasonable and appropriate, and we have no objections to it. (5)
JUDGE RODRIGUES:
[Int.] Regarding the request and the
non-objection of the Prosecutor, and in view of the fact that this is
indeed an exceptional situation, we will make an exception to the order of
the Chamber and we will authorise contact between the Defence and General
Krstic after he has taken the solemn declaration.
(10)So we are ready now to call General Krstic to the witness box. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] General Krstic, can you hear me? THE WITNESS: [Int.] Yes, I can. (15) JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Good morning. Could you please first of all read the solemn declaration that the usher is giving you. THE WITNESS: [Int.] Yes, I will. Good morning, Your Honours. I solemnly declare that I will speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. (20)
WITNESS: RADISLAV KRSTIC JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Thank you, General Krstic. You may sit down now. THE WITNESS: [Int.] Thank you, Your Honour. (25)
JUDGE RODRIGUES:
[Int.] Please make yourself as
MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] Thank you, Mr. President. • EXAMINED by Mr. Petrusic: • Q.: General, could you first of all tell us the date and the place of your birth? (20) • A.: Your Honours, I was born on the 15th of February, 1948, in the village of Nedjalista, situated in the municipality of Vlasenica, in the Socialist Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina. • Q.: General, could you describe briefly for us your biography? Tell us where you went to school. (25)
• A.: I went to the primary school in my place of birth, in my village,
• Q.: You have mentioned three different localities, Han Pijesak, Sarajevo, and Belgrade. You told us about your early childhood and your youth. Could you also tell us something about the places where you lived (10)at the time you were completing your military academy? And could you also tell us something about the ethnic composition of those places in those years?
• A.: I went to the primary school in my place of birth, and that is one
of the very few places in the territory of the municipality of Vlasenica
(15)which was rather heterogenous when it comes to the ethnic composition.
Never had there been any incident, anything that would have been caused by
national intolerance. Quite the contrary. We all went to school
together, we socialised together, and we had a great respect for each
other. This applied also to the elderly population of the village, but it
(20)applied in particular to the younger generation.
As regards the military academy and the years I spent there in
Belgrade, in Sarajevo, I should like to say that the cadets at the
military academy were also of various ethnic backgrounds, and I have to
stress that we never had any problems, any incidents amongst us which
(25)would have been caused by ethnic intolerance.
• Q.: General, upon your graduation from the military academy, which is (10)a high-level educational institution which lasts four years, you became an active-duty officer and you started your military career. Could you tell us, in brief terms, what was your career like in the former Yugoslavia? • A.: Yes, I will do that. After I graduated from the military academy and after I became an active-duty officer of the former JNA, I was first (15)assigned to the Sarajevo garrison; more precisely, to the centre of military schools which was called Josip Bros Tito. My first assignment was a platoon commander at the secondary military school. Apart from that duty, the duty of the platoon commander, I was also a company commander, and later on I was a head of class in the last (20)year of the secondary military school there.
• Q.: Bearing in mind those two duties that you fulfilled at the time,
apart from the fact that you were an officer, you were also an educator,
you were also a kind of teacher. You trained young cadets in that school
there. I should like to know, what kind of environment was that? I'm
(25)referring to the school where you worked as a teacher and when you were an
• A.: It was not in any way different from the years that I spent at the military academy in Belgrade, in Sarajevo. The only difference, perhaps, was the fact that there were many young people in secondary military (5)schools. Those were children, very young people, and the work with them required a great amount of effort, because those young people were separated from their parents for the first time in their life and they were not used to living in a community. So from time to time there would be an incident here and there, (10)but again, never caused by any ethnic or national intolerance. I don't remember anyone at any point in time asking anyone else about his ethnic background or nationality. So that was the kind of atmosphere where I worked in the centre of secondary military schools. The objective, again, was to fight for, to (15)strive for, the ideals of brotherhood and unity, and I believe that we educated in that spirit the officers who later on -- the people who would later on would become officers and promote the ideals that we taught them. • Q.: General, could you please slow down just a little bit because I believe that the interpreters are having some difficulty in following (20)you. • A.: I will do that. • Q.: You started a family in Sarajevo.
• A.: Yes, I did. The years that I spent with my family in Sarajevo
were, I should say, the best years of my life. That is where I got
(25)married, had a daughter. That is where I was given an apartment for the
• Q.: After your tour of duty in Sarajevo which I believe lasted until 1981, what did your career look like? What did you do next?
• A.: My tour of duty in Sarajevo ended in 1981, whereupon I was posted
to the general staff of the military academy in Belgrade. I can say that
(20)that was a dream of all military officers in the former Yugoslavia who
were career-minded. I began my education there in 1981 and I completed
that training in 1983. So, that part of my education lasted two years.
Throughout that time, my family stayed in Sarajevo. I didn't want
them to be forced to come to Belgrade because I was sincerely hoping that
(25)I would have coming back to Sarajevo and that I would go on with the life
• Q.: However, obviously it was not meant to be because your next assignment was Negotin.
• A.: Yes. Though I felt like a real Sarajevan, my wishes also
(5)depended on the wishes of my family and my superiors. I was given an
assignment in Negotin which is a very small town positioned on the borders
of three different countries: Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and Romania. I was
posted in the garrison as the battalion commander, but at the same time I
was also the garrison commander in that area. So that was in mid-1983
(10)that I joined that garrison.
As regards the relations amongst people in the unit where I
started to work, the same spirit prevailed, the same spirit as the one
that I had in Sarajevo. But that environment was no longer the
environment of cadet corps but professional military officers. I had
(15)people from various parts of the former Yugoslavia, and the people there
were of various ethnic backgrounds. Although the crisis in the former
Yugoslavia had just about started to brew and was mainly caused by
economic problems and developments, we, the members of our unit and the
garrison in general, managed to preserve a total unity amongst ourselves.
(20)And the fact that the garrison was nationally heterogenous was
something rather special which made us persevere in our objective. And we
didn't have any incidents that would have been caused by ethnic
intolerance.
When it comes to social contacts amongst each other, amongst
(25)military officers, and contacts with the people outside the barracks, with
• Q.: Your next posting from Negotin was to Kosovska Mitrovica in early 1987. • A.: Yes. In mid-1986, again because of the requirements of the service, I was posted away from the Negotin garrison to the Pristina (10)garrison where I was appointed to the operations organ of the command. I was in charge of training of officers and units in the Pristina corps. Although this is Kosovo, which was at the time rather specific in comparison to other localities in the former Yugoslavia, the command to which I had been posted was also very ethnically heterogenous. But there (15)was harmony; people respected each other. We socialised both in our work in the command but also in our private lives outside of the command itself, I would say to a much greater extent than it was the case in Sarajevo or in Negotin where we socialised mostly with the people outside the barracks. (20)The reason was the specific situation in Kosovo at the time. So that we somehow had to socialise with each other and we depended on each other, but of course we never consciously avoided contacts with the persons outside of the service, but these contacts were rare.
• Q.: This is the time of the great crisis in the former Socialist
(25)Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The secession or the breakdown, the
• A.: Yes. In the Pristina garrison, I remained until mid-1987 when I
(5)was posted to the Kosovska Mitrovica garrison where my post was the
Chief of Staff of the Motorised Brigade. I remained at that post until
1990 when I took over as the brigade commander in that very same
garrison. This is the beginning of the constitutional and political
crisis in the former Yugoslavia, or rather the culmination of the
(10)constitutional and political crisis. We tried and we managed to retain at
the beginning the mixed character of our community in the garrison and the
unity that existed among us, the commanding corps and the soldiers, made
us believe that any conflicts could be avoided and would be avoided, and
that politicians would manage to find solutions and solve all the
(15)problems, avoiding conflict and keeping Yugoslavia together and alive.
However, the worst case scenario came to pass. Conflict breaks
out first in the northern-most republic of the former Yugoslavia, in
Slovenia, and then in Croatia. This was painful and horrible for all of
us in my unit. Not only in my unit, but in the whole of the Pristina
(20)corps. This in fact had an impact on the mixed ethnic character of the
garrison because soldiers and commanders, officers from our unit, left the
unit. Parting with those people was painful for us and it was very
emotional for us. As they left, we would say goodbye believing and hoping
that we -- perhaps we'll see each other again and perhaps that we would
(25)work together again.
THE INTERPRETER: I apologise. • A.: In the army of the new Yugoslavia, I had nothing to do so I went to Bosnia-Herzegovina. (5) MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] • Q.: General, when you said, "I realise that Bosnia-Herzegovina was my state," in light of the year when you were born, are you a citizen of the former Bosnia-Herzegovina and of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in the sense in which those citizenships were given out to (10)persons? • A.: Yes. My wife, my daughter, and myself, we're all citizens of Bosnia-Herzegovina. We were also citizens of the Republic of Yugoslavia, just like all the other inhabitants in the territory of the former Yugoslavia. (15) • Q.: The reason why I asked you this question was, in fact, your previous answer. So you left the army of Yugoslavia voluntarily. • A.: Yes, I left the army of Yugoslavia, the Yugoslav army, voluntarily. • Q.: So finally you arrive in the territory of the former Republic of (20)Bosnia-Herzegovina, which was at the time already, as of April, an internationally recognised state of Bosnia-Herzegovina. Can you tell us, where did you arrive and what were your activities after -- what were you doing after you arrived in Republika Srpska, or rather Bosnia-Herzegovina, as it was at the time? (25)
• A.: When I crossed the border between the Republic of Serbia and the
• Q.: General, when you arrived in Han Pijesak and reported to the garrison, was that the time when the army of Republika Srpska was already a legally established institution in accordance with the constitution and (15)the laws in force at the time in the Republika Srpska?
• A.: Yes, that was the impression that I got. The army of Republika
Srpska, or rather of the Serbian Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina had
already been set up and organised. My brigade, the brigade that I took
over and which came under my command, had been established and organised,
(20)as had all the other units in the army. It was established and organised
predominantly in accordance with the territorial principle and with the
participation of the population who had fled from other areas. So that
this particular brigade was composed of the people from the Sokolac
municipality, Olovo and Kladanj municipalities, and from the refugees from
(25)the Zenica, Kakanj, Breza, and Vares municipalities. So it was ethnically
• Q.: When you said that the unit you took command of, the 2nd Romanija Motorised Brigade, was composed of exclusively ethnic Serbs, the opposing side, conditionally speaking, or the enemy, were their forces also (15)ethnically homogeneous? Of course there were exceptions but they only confirm the rule. • A.: Yes. On the basis of intelligence reports that we had at the time, I think it was so. In fact, I do believe that the units facing my brigade were similarly ethnically homogeneous, though I do not exclude the (20)possibility of some Serbs being in those units as well.
• Q.: When you took over command, the duty of commander of that brigade,
were combat activities engaged in? Were the front lines already
established? Could you describe to us the situation in the brigade and
around the brigade, and specifically in the area of your command.
(25)So please make a pause between the question and answer, and slow
• A.: When I took over as Commander of the 2nd Romanija Motorised Brigade, the entire brigade was engaged on the front of defence towards Kladanj, Olovo, and Vares. There were combat activities between the (5)warring parties; however, within my area of responsibility, there were no conflicts. When I took over as Brigade Commander, regarding the command and control functions, I had a certain number of difficulties primarily caused by the fact that the officers in the brigade command and subordinate units (10)lacked experience in the kind of duties they were expected to perform, and they simply were not familiar with the prescribed duties for a particular position in the chain of command. However, with time that situation significantly improved, so that later on I didn't have any particular problems regarding the command and control functions. (15) • Q.: So you took over that unit with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. • A.: Yes. • Q.: So this was the rank that you acquired in the former army of the SFRY. • A.: I joined the army of the Serbian Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina, (20)having the rank of Lieutenant Colonel, and in October of the same year, that is, in 1992, I was regularly promoted to the next highest rank, and that is the rank of Colonel. • Q.: So this is a regular promotion.
• A.: Yes. I had already served as Lieutenant Colonel for four years,
(25)so this was the next step.
• A.: Before I answer that question, I should say if I may, I should like to say a few more words about control and command in my brigade. (5) • Q.: Yes, please do so. • A.: For me it was a great advantage that in the command and in subordinate units I had active-duty officers holding key positions, officers from the former Yugoslav People's Army with sufficient experience to perform those duties successfully. A particular advantage for me was (10)the fact that as Chief of Security, one of the key positions in those times, was held by an active-duty officer with many years of experience and years of service in that kind of service. His main duty in the brigade was counter-intelligence, and he was indeed the man who organised and implemented security measures in the (15)brigade. Not only did he implement them, but he also carried them out. He made a particularly noteworthy contribution to the organisation and implementation of such measures in subordinate units, and particularly with respect to prisoners of war and the treatment of the same from the moment of their capture until their handing over to the superior command. (20) • Q.: Did your brigade have prisoners of war during the time when you were in command?
• A.: Yes, the brigade did have prisoners of war. In most cases they
were captured on the front lines in attempting to infiltrate our units and
those areas which were not defended or were inadequately defended.
(25)Similarly, we had prisoners captured deep within the rear of our
• Q.: So you were satisfied with the work of that body. • A.: Yes, I was extremely satisfied. As I have said, these were (20)wartime conditions and it was normal that he should be one of the key figures in the brigade.
• Q.: I assume that as the Brigade Commander you dispatched regular and
extraordinary and periodical reports to the higher command, in this case,
to the Drina Corps, the Command of the Drina Corps. What I would like to
(25)know is in compiling those reports, did the security body participate;
• A.: The Chief of Security in my brigade would frequently and in a (5)timely fashion inform me about all problems regarding security in the brigade. He did so accurately and on time. Within the framework of daily and extraordinary reports, one of the items was always security, and the compilation of those reports, the Chief of Security did participate; and as such they were forwarded to the Superior Command. (10)However, there were cases while I was the Brigade Commander of certain security chiefs in the brigades of the Drina Corps not submitting their reports to their immediate superior, that is, the brigade commander, and they even failed to inform him about certain questions and problems. Instead, they forwarded their reports directly to the security (15)organ of the higher command, more precisely, to the security organ of the Drina Corps and the Main Staff. Let me mention by way of an example the reaction of the Commander of the Zvornik Brigade in 1994, I think this was sometime in the middle of the year, when the brigade commander informed the Corps Command and the (20)Main Staff that his chief of security is not reporting to him in a regular manner, nor is he informing him about problems and difficulties, but is instead sending his reports to the security organ of the Drina Corps, and even to the security department of the Main Staff in some cases.
• Q.: General, the relationship between the Drina Corps Command and the
(25)brigade of which you were the Commander, were those relationships regular
• A.: Contacts between us in the brigade command and the officers in the (5)superior command in this case with representatives of the Drina Corps Command were regular, and when the corps command toured the brigade, to gain insight into the overall situation and any problems that may exist in the brigades, it would be normal for such touring teams of officers to be led by the Corps Commander. However, that never happened in the case (10)of my brigade. The Corps Commander in most cases came, escorted by General Mladic. I don't know why this was so. I know for certain that he acted quite differently in the case of some other units, such as, for instance, the Bratunac Brigade, the Skelani Battalion, and even the (15)Zvornik Brigade. When those units were toured, the Corps Commander often spent several days with them. However, in the case of my brigade, he stayed only as long as General Mladic stayed. So my impression was that this officer somehow had something against me personally, not against the brigade, and this would prove to be (20)true later on when I took over duty as Chief of Staff, and later on. • Q.: The duties of a brigade commander, did they involve contacting officers in the Drina Corps and in the Main Staff, specifically General Mladic and his assistants?
• A.: Yes. That would occur when units of the Drina Corps were being
(25)toured. And I think that on two or three occasions I did have contact
MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] The Defence, Mr. President, would (5)suggest a break now. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Yes. Very well, Mr. Petrusic. Perhaps you could see with General Krstic how much time is most convenient, in view of his health, for us to continue at a time. So we're now going to have a half-hour break. (10) --- Recess taken at 10.49 a.m. --- On resuming at 11.23 a.m. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Mr. Petrusic, you may continue. MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] Thank you, Mr. President. • Q.: General, before we finish with this area, could you just tell me (15)whether during the time you were commanding the 2nd Romanija Motorised Brigade, that is, whether in the area of responsibility of that brigade there were any serious or major armed conflicts between the warring parties? THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the General, please. (20)
• A.: It is difficult for me to say what was the most important at the
time I was the Commander of the 2nd Romanija Motorised Brigade. Combat
operations were conducted on a daily basis at the front lines, that is,
along the confrontation line between the warring factions. There weren't
any major changes of the lines with either party. There were some
(25)attempts to improve the tactical situation so that a better control over
MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] (5) • Q.: You left the 2nd Romanija Motorised Brigade in 1994. You were transferred to another duty. Before we broach this new subject, let us deal with the following: It is common knowledge that the army of Republika Srpska granted awards and decorations to their staff. During that period of time while you were the Commander of the 2nd Romanija (10)Motorised Brigade, were you ever awarded any such decoration? If you were, could tell us very briefly about that. • A.: No. No. Neither during the time when I was the Brigade Commander nor later on; I never received any decoration. • Q.: General, could you now describe for us the duty that you took over (15)at that time, that is, the duty which is directly related to the Drina Corps in 1994, that is, in the second half of that year?
• A.: According to a decision which was issued by the Ministry of
Defence of Republika Srpska, on the 15th of August, 1994, I was appointed
to the duty of the Chief of Staff of the Drina Corps. The takeover of
(20)duty between myself, who until that time was the Brigade Commander, and
the new commander, the incoming commander, lasted from the 15th of August
until the 1st of September. After that period of time, I took up my new
position within the Command of the Drina Corps, that is, the position of
the -- the post of the Chief of Staff of the Drina Corps.
(25)I was appointed to that post, as I have already indicated,
• Q.: Does that mean, General, that on the 28th of September, 1994, you (10)actually took up duty or, rather, the post of the Chief of Staff of the Drina Corps, and legally speaking, de jure and also de facto, on the ground? • A.: Yes. It is as of that particular date that I was officially on my post, that is, the post of the Chief of Staff of the Corps. After that (15)particular date, I was able to avail myself of all the rights and to fulfil and exercise all the duties and responsibilities of that functional position, functional post. But let me say one other thing. Before a record was made on the takeover of duty, I was also briefed about the situation involving the (20)army of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina and its intentions towards the area of responsibility of the Drina Corps and inside that area of responsibility. I was briefed about the activities, the operations, coming from the direction of Tuzla, Zivinice, Kladanj, and Olovo against our defence lines. (25)
• Q.: Let me interrupt you for a moment, General.
• A.: While the usher is looking for the documents, I would like to add (5)that I was also briefed about the activities of the 28th Division from the protected areas of Zepa and Srebrenica against our positions, the forces that were engaged in the defence around the protected areas and inside of the area of responsibility of the Corps; and also of the weapons they had, and daily deserters, the people who deserted daily from the protected (10)areas towards Tuzla, Zivinice, and Kladanj.
• Q.: General, we have in front of us a document of the army of the
Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina, 8th Operative Group, Srebrenica. The
number of the document is 130-01-63/94, of the 26th of July, 1994. It was
sent to the Command of the 2nd Corps, attention of the commander in
(15)Tuzla.
In this document - we have it also in the English translation and
that is good - with reference to a telephone conversation with the member
of the Srebrenica War Presidency, "we forward the list of materiel and
equipment required and ask you to procure and deliver these to the free
(20)territory of the municipality of Srebrenica."
Mentioned here are rifles, light and heavy machine-guns, and the
quantity is 4.000 pieces; the ammunition, and the quantity is 500.000,
300.000, 100.000, 5.000 respectively; 100.000 again on several items; then
weapons such as Zoljas, hand-held rocket launchers; Osa likewise; and also
(25)shells and mines.
• A.: Yes. My predecessor briefed me and told me that regardless -- despite the status of the safe area accorded to that area and the obligations stemming from the agreement on demilitarisation, that the forces of the 28th Division of the army of Bosnia-Herzegovina in (10)Srebrenica and Zepa were, in fact, continuously arming themselves, obtaining or procuring more weapons in addition to the light or infantry weapons they already had at their disposal and failed to hand over; that they were obtaining future -- further weapons from Tuzla and Kladanj or directly from Sarajevo. (15)
• Q.: This is the 26th of July, 1994, and this request was submitted to
the Supreme Command, to the General Staff of the army of Republika Srpska MR. HARMON: Excuse me. (25)
JUDGE RODRIGUES:
[Int.] Yes, Mr. Harmon.
THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the counsel, please. MR. HARMON: There appears to be a mistake on line 11:43:20 to (5)28. In other words, the exhibit is referred to as a request that was submitted to the Supreme Command, to the General Staff of the army of Republika Srpska, and the exhibit is different on its face. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Mr. Petrusic. MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] Thank you, Mr. Harmon. (10)The request or the document referred to by the Defence, document number 27, is a request of the 8th Operative Group Srebrenica of the army of Bosnia-Herzegovina, number 103-01-63/94, 26th of July, 1994. It is submitted to the Command of the 2nd Corps in Sarajevo, attention Commander in Tuzla. (15)So I would now like us to refer to the other document. That's Defence Exhibit number 28. Mr. President, since this document has not been translated by the translation service, we only have a copy in the Bosnian or Serbian language. I will read the heading of the document so we know what the (20)document is about. It has been marked for identification as 28, 28B, in fact. "Army of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, 8th Operative Group, Srebrenica Command." JUDGE RODRIGUES: Mr. Harmon, do you have the document?
MR. HARMON: We're waiting for it, Mr. President. We don't have
(25)it yet. We request that we not proceed until we have a copy of it. Thank
JUDGE RODRIGUES: Very well then. We're going to wait, because I don't have the document either. MR. HARMON: Mr. President, I have copy of it now. I've located (5)it in a binder that was given to me by counsel for the accused. JUDGE RODRIGUES: Can we, therefore, proceed? MR. HARMON: Yes. I would ask, however, that in the future when an exhibit is disseminated to the witness, that we be provided in court with a copy of the exhibit. Otherwise, we're going to be looking through (10)a rather thick binder, trying to find a needle in a haystack. JUDGE RODRIGUES: Yes. I think that Madam Registrar will take care of that for our future hearings. Mr. Petrusic, I believe we can now continue. MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] Thank you, Your Honour. (15)So in the document that was quoted before that was submitted to the 2nd Corps Command, the security section in Tuzla, the situation in the territory of Srebrenica is discussed. More specifically, that in the night between the 24th and the 25th of July, 1994, a group of around 17 people left the free territory of Srebrenica, heading towards Tuzla. (20)General, did you have any knowledge of such activities?
• A.: Yes. This problem -- I was also briefed about this problem by my
predecessor. This is just one in a series of documents presenting the
fact that people were leaving the protected areas of Srebrenica and Zepa
is presented as a problem. These were actually members of the
(25)28th Division leaving the areas. Sometimes there were even civilians when
• Q.: Thank you, General. I would now like to refer to Exhibit 29B. (20)This document is also a document issued by the Srebrenica 8th Operative Zone. The number is 103-26-18/94, dated 31st of August, 1994. Can you tell us, from the point of view of familiarisation of the situation in the Drina Corps, can you make a brief comment about this document? (25)
• A.: This document also refers to the desertion of the area of
MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] The next document that I would like to have tendered into evidence is document 30B. This document is also a (5)document of the 8th Operative Group of Srebrenica, number 130-17-04/94, dated the 7th of September, 1994. • Q.: Before I put a question to you, I would like to know, General, and I think that in the course of these proceedings, the unit in the protected area of Srebrenica has been established to be the 28th Division; and the (10)name we see in the heading of this document, that is, the 8th Operative Group of Srebrenica, is that the same unit? Tell me, please. • A.: Yes, it is the same unit. At the beginning of the outbreak of fighting in Eastern Bosnia where forces of the army of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina were located, the name given to those forces, that (15)grouping, was the Defence Staff of Srebrenica, or rather the Defence Staff for Eastern Bosnia. Later on those forces reorganised by order of the Supreme Command of the army of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina, and that name was changed to the 8th Operative Group of Srebrenica. And then at the (20)beginning of May 1995, this 8th Operative Group was again, by order of the Supreme Command of the army of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina, renamed and became the 28th Division Srebrenica, which was located in both protected areas, that is, in the territory of Srebrenica and Zepa.
• Q.: So let us now go back to this document and my question. As they
(25)left the protected area, or during attempts to flee from the area, did
• A.: Yes. This document or, rather, report does not specifically refer to the departure from the protected area. These are planned activities of (5)the 28th Division in Srebrenica, and I have spoken about this, which I was briefed about when taking over duty; that in fact they continuously carried out reconnaissance activities regarding our forces' positions around the protected areas of Srebrenica and Zepa and also deep within our territory. (10)This particular document refers to reconnaissance into our positions on the 27th of July, 1994, in the area of Pribicevac, when a soldier member of the 28th Division was seriously injured; it says that he was here reconnoitring enemy positions. And also on the 6th of July, 1994, in the area of Pribicevac, another soldier was wounded. Then on the (15)6th of August, in the region of Buljim, while reconnoitring Serb positions, two fighters were killed, three were seriously injured, and all of them belonged to the 280th Light Bosnian Brigade -- Eastern Bosnian Brigade which was deployed in the area of Buljim at the time. We see that the officer for engineering signed this, Mr. Mirsad (20)Dudic. So in accordance with his position, he is reporting to the Command of the 2nd Corps, probably to the engineers' body, because his duty was mining and demining and other such activities that come under his responsibilities.
• Q.: The next exhibit is Defence Exhibit D31B. This is a report of the
(25)8th Operative Group of Srebrenica, number 130-13-75/94, addressed to the
• A.: Yes. This is another in a series of documents, and this stands
(15)out in particular, this one, from which we can see that desertion of the
protected area of Srebrenica was carried out on a large scale. I said
that there were such cases daily, they were daily occurrences, and they
were a cause of great problems for us especially when they were armed.
In this case, we are talking about a large number of individuals,
(20)as stated in this document, and they were indeed a very serious threat;
not only for our units facing Tuzla, Zivinice, and Kladanj, but also for
the civilian population within the area of responsibility, because they
had to cross that area in order to reach Tuzla, Zivinice, and Kladanj from
Srebrenica.
(25)So in this report, too, reference is made in several places to
• Q.: The next document is 33B. General, the document is in front of you. This document bears the number 130-28-169/94, dated 7th of November, 1994. It is sent from Srebrenica to the Command of the 2nd Corps. In paragraph number 4 reference is made to the delivery of (15)humanitarian aid and selection of certain supplies from that delivery of aid which is being distributed to members of the army of Bosnia-Herzegovina. Were you aware about the arrival of such humanitarian aid at all and how that aid was distributed, and to whom; that is, as far as this (20)fourth paragraph is concerned?
• A.: Yes, I did have some information to the effect that humanitarian
aid was being delivered to the protected area of Srebrenica. I must admit
that I had no knowledge about the possible problems that existed prior to
the entry of such humanitarian aid into the protected area.
(25)On the basis of intelligence reports that we had regarding the
• Q.: On page 2 of this report, there is reference to offensive activities by each brigade belonging to the 8th Operative Group, and the Defence and Their Honours are interested in knowing whether this was so (10)and whether you had information about all these things.
• A.: This is the first document in a series of documents in which there
is reference in quite specific terms about measures that are being taken
in preparation for offensive activities from Srebrenica towards Tuzla,
Zivinice, and Kladanj. It is true that this is a report on the morale of
(15)the members of the 28th Division, but among other things, this report also
states as follows -- if I may, I should like to read it out:
"A turning point in the improvement of combat morale occurred
after the order of the Commander of the 2nd Corps of the army of the
Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina to carry out reconnaissance of enemy
(20)positions and to carry out preparations for possible combat activities
towards Konjevic Polje, Cerska, and Kamenica. All units showed a full
measure of willingness and readiness to carry out all such assignments
from superiors. Combat morale has not declined because of the death and
wounding of a number of soldiers when reconnoitring enemy territory."
(25)So this document mentions for the first time preparations for
• Q.: General, on page 3 of this report -- let us finish with it -- the second paragraph, it says: "The greatest problem will be the infiltration of a large number of soldiers from the demilitarised zone to the (20)destination without UNPROFOR noting them, and also avoiding minefields on the road from Srebrenica to the destination."
• A.: Yes. Clearly all the activities that they engaged in from the
moment Srebrenica was declared a safe area were carried out in such a way
as to not to be noticed by UN forces. They concealed these activities
(25)from them. I simply find is hard to believe that the Canadian Battalion
• Q.: How long did you, therefore, stay at the Corps Command and how long did you tour the units after the takeover of your duties as the Chief (5)of Staff of the Corps Command? • A.: After I took over my duties as the Chief of Staff of the Corps Command, and after being briefed about the situation through the procedure of the takeover of duty, while carrying -- I stayed at my post at the Corps Command until the 1st of November, 1994, whereupon, upon an order of (10)the Corps Command and pursuant to an order issued by the Main Staff, I established a unit with the strength of a brigade and took it to the area of the Herzegovinian Corps for the purpose of taking part in the crushing of the offensive which was being conducted at that time by the BH army from the area of Bjelasnica and Igman towards the area of the (15)responsibility of the Herzegovinian Corps. I'm referring to the area of Treskavica and Trnovo. And I was personally commanding that brigade as the Chief of Staff. • Q.: Maybe I haven't followed you, and I apologise for that. How long did you stay in the area of Treskavica and Trnovo? (20)
• A.: In the area of responsibility of the Herzegovinian Corps, that is,
in the area of Treskavica and Trnovo, I remained until mid-December 1994,
whereupon I returned to the command of the Corps in Vlasenica, to my post,
in order to continue with the duties that I had taken up.
After I had returned from the area of responsibility of the
(25)Herzegovinian Corps, naturally, I was briefed about the situation in the
MR. PETRUSIC:
[Int.] Mr. President, I think that there
is a procedure regarding breaks that has been well established by now.
However, I should like to ask Your Honours to deviate a bit from that
established procedure and to shorten the length of testimony for a couple
(25)of minutes, and I should like to request a break at this point.
(10) MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] Yes. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Very well. We will have a half-hour break at this point, then. --- Recess taken at 12.30 p.m. --- On resuming at 1.03 p.m. (15) JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Mr. Petrusic, please continue. MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] Thank you, Mr. President. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Mr. Petrusic, before resuming, in principle we are going to work until 2.30. Will General Krstic manage to work for that period, or do we need a small break in between? We'll (20)see? MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] From your gesture, I assume that we will see.
JUDGE RODRIGUES:
[Int.] Yes. Let's see around 2.00.
In any event, General Krstic, if you need a break, please let us
(25)know whether you can continue or not.
JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Mr. Petrusic, please continue. MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] Thank you, Your Honour. In line with the answer that was received, the answer to the (5)previous question, I would now like to ask the usher to place Exhibit 32B on the ELMO. • Q.: This document bears the number 130/01/220 [as interpreted] I have to admit that the heading of this document is illegible, but its contents, however, are in a better condition. It is originating from the (10)Commander of the 8th Operative Group, Brigadier Naser Oric, and it is sent to the Command of the 284th Brigade, attention Commander. The document is dated the 6th of October, 1994, 10.00 a.m. This order, in the first paragraph of this order, it is stated as follows: "Immediately start preparing and selecting personnel for (15)reconnaissance activities in the temporarily occupied territory of the wider region of Konjevic Polje." My first question, General, is whether at the time Konjevic Polje was an area controlled by the units of the Republika Srpska army, of the Drina Corps, which is outside of the territory of the Srebrenica safe (20)area.
• A.: First of all, this was not an area that was controlled by the
Republika Srpska army units. It was not defended, it was not a defended
area, because facing Srebrenica there were Drina Corps units in front of
this area, and I'm referring to the Bratunac and Milici Brigades. So this
(25)is a space in which the 5th Engineer Battalion of the Drina Corps was
JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Yes, Mr. Visnjic, you want to interrupt? I beg your pardon. (5) MR. VISNJIC: [Int.] Your Honour, I would like to apologise, but in order to speed up the matter, I will be correcting the errors in the transcript. The number of the document is 130-04-020, dated 6th of October, 1994 -- I have to intervene. The number of the document is 202. So it's (10)130-04-202. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Yes, you are right, Mr. Visnjic. Thank you very much for drawing our attention to this error. You may continue, Mr. Petrusic. (15) MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] • Q.: So in this territory, in Konjevic Polje, this is where the 5th Engineer Battalion of the Drina Corps was deployed. • A.: Yes. • Q.: Does this document show that the activities -- that the 8th (20)Operative Group continue activities against the forces of the Republika Srpska army?
• A.: Yes. This is an order issued by the Commander of the 8th
Operative Group to one of the commanders of the subordinate brigades.
This was sent to the attention of the Commander of the 284th Eastern
(25)Bosnian Light Brigade, and he issues a specific order which axes to
• Q.: The next document is document number 570-11/94, that's Exhibit 34B, dated 7th of November, 1994. (10)So this document is entitled "The Plan For Counter-offensive Action of the S.B. Battalion," and since this is a plan, the Defence would like to know -- the Defence would be interested in hearing what you knew about these activities carried out by the 8th Operative Group or the S.B. Battalion. (15)
• A.: This document relates to the previous document. The Commander of
the Independent Mountain Battalion from Srebrenica takes action in
accordance with the order issued by the Commander of the 8th Operative
Group, and he drafts a plan which he entitled "The Plan for
Counter-offensive By the Independent Mountain Battalion."
(20)The Independent Mountain Battalion, according to the intelligence
we had at our disposal, was a unit, the unit that was the best unit for
combat at that level in the 28th Division, which can also be seen from
this report.
The Commander of the 8th Operative Group gives a task -- assigns a
(25)task to him first. His battalion that was issued -- given the task to
JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Yes, Mr. Visnjic. MR. VISNJIC: [Int.] Mr. President, for the transcript, line page 46, 24th line, which is still on the screen, from "Srebrenica towards Tuzla." That is what it should say in the original. (10)
JUDGE RODRIGUES:
[Int.] Yes, I noticed that instead of
"Tuzla," we could see "Tuesday." So something -- an error in the
transcript. But it will be corrected, as you know.
On the other hand, I would like to draw your attention to the fact
that if you're quoting a document, one has to be very clear when you're
(15)beginning to quote and when you come to the end of the quotation.
Otherwise, there may be problems. You understand, Mr. Petrusic, because MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] • Q.: The next exhibit is number 35B.
JUDGE RODRIGUES:
[Int.] I see that the word "Busovaca"
appears in the text. There was never any mention of "Busovaca" here.
(25)We'll have to correct all that. Those are the conditions we're working
MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] (5)
• Q.: The document was issued by the army of the Republic of Bosnia and
Herzegovina, Command of the 283rd Brigade, number 191-10/94, dated 7th of
November, 1994. I will quote: "Our units in the strength of
200 soldiers, our unit has been assigned the task of infiltrating into the
enemy rear, and it could be considered as an Infantry Company strengthened
(10)with Engineer Platoons, Anti-Armour Platoon, and Sabotage Platoons. We
feel that the lines that should be occupied have not been determined
because they are deep in the rear. We assume that the enemy has a
barracks next to the school where there is a company-strength unit and
that the location is guarded by a tank and an APC. The same location is,
(15)in fact, protecting a vital road for Milici."
The next thing that I would like to quote before asking my
question, it is from the order that has already been referred to, page 1,
that's paragraph 5: "Our unit has 200 sharp rifles. At least 30 should
be left to defend Srebrenica. In my estimate, 120 sharp rifles are at our
(20)disposal, and about five Zoljas," that's hand-held grenade launchers, "and
grenade launchers with three grenades."
General, do you, from this information about the enemy, reach
certain conclusions as to their intentions and as to the way in which they
conduct their activities? And could you please explain the term "sharp
(25)rifle" or "sharp barrel"? What does it mean? Because this is the first
• A.: This order issued by the Commander of the 283rd East Bosnia Light
Brigade is given to the subordinate units for the execution of the task
given to them by the Commander of the 8th Operative Group; that's General
(5)Oric.
This document relates to the document I referred to earlier, the
previous document in which Oric issued orders to all units pertaining to
the combat activities in the Srebrenica-Konjevic Polje-Cerska-Udrc-Tuzla
area, and as is usual, they carry out the orders they received from their
(10)commander.
As regards this quote that you have just given me and the request
for me to explain what this term "sharp barrel" means, I would first like
to refer to what he is saying about the enemy and his own forces, stating
that they have engineers, sabotage, and anti-armour units in their
(15)formation equipped and armed with all the materiel that enables them to
carry out their assigned duties.
The term "sharp barrel" is not a specific term. It refers to
rifles they had. And these are the rifles that also have bayonets. It
can be fitted onto semi-automatic rifles which they had from the former
(20)JNA, and also automatic rifles which they had, and Kalashnikovs. I think
that the knife, the bayonet, was not actually attached to the barrel, but
there is a knife that can, if necessary, be placed on the rifle itself.
At the end of this order, that's page 3, the penultimate
paragraph, I quote: "It is my opinion that we should wait for the units
(25)from Tuzla to occupy the key points Udrc, Kuljic, Cerska," and so on, "and
THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's remark: There is a typing mistake (5)in the original text. MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] • Q.: Does that mean that this plan or action should have been synchronised with the forces of the 2nd Corps from the direction of Tuzla, from the one side, which would then come out to the Zvornik, Milici, and (10)other brigades, into their rear, and on the other side there would be an advance from Srebrenica on the part of the 8th Operative Group? • A.: Yes. It was an order issued by the 2nd Corps of the army of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina with the goal of linking up their forces with the forces from the Srebrenica area, and the events that will (15)transpire later will prove that this was indeed so. The Commander of this brigade expresses his opinion in a very realistic way and justified way, because infiltrating that deep into the territory controlled by the Serbs was very risky. If the forces from Tuzla failed to move, and if they do not move fast enough in their attack, (20)it would be very hard for the infiltrated units to hold the positions they had taken without linking up with the forces attacking from Tuzla. We will see later in the developments in early 1995 how these events actually transpired.
• Q.: In one of your previous answers you mentioned Naser Oric and you
(25)said he was a General. Is this an error on your part, or was it the rank
• A.: No, it was not an error. According to our information, Naser Oric was a General, the Commander of the first staff of the Srebrenica Territorial Defence, which later became the 8th Operative Group; and as of (5)May 1995 he was the Commander of the 28th Division. So he was, indeed, a General and the Commander of the 28th Division. • Q.: The next document is a document bearing the number 36B. It is a document issued by the Command of the 8th Operative Group in Srebrenica, number 01/1-2, dated the 9th of November, 1994, submitted to the Command (10)of the 2nd Corps in Tuzla. On page 2 of this document, signed by Naser Oric, and I quote: "I, therefore, ask you, because of the planned combat operations on the linking up of the 8th Operative Group and the 2nd Corps, to postpone the realisation and implementation of this order until the completion of the (15)planned operations, and to advise us thereof a little bit in advance." Was there, then, a continuous and planned activity on attempts to link up the Srebrenica enclave with the forces of the 2nd Corps, with its headquarters in Tuzla? • A.: Yes. (20) • Q.: Before you go into your answer, we have Prosecution Exhibit 2; it is a map. Could you please point at the map -- could you please show on the map the positions of the 2nd Corps. So the position of the units of the 2nd Corps and the positions of the 8th Operative Group.
• A.: As everyone knows, the Command of the 2nd Corps of the army of the
(25)Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina was located in Tuzla. The forces of the
MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] For the transcript, the forces of the 2nd Corps, on Prosecution Exhibit number 2, are marked in blue. Could I ask for Exhibit 39, please.
• Q.: This document was issued by the army of Bosnia-Herzegovina of the
(20)283rd Brigade. The number of the document is 22-50-52, dated 13th of
November, 1994. Dated the 13th of November, 1994, I see. The number of
the document is 22-50-59.
This document, General, constitutes a plan as the heading
indicates, and I quote: "To disarm members of UNPROFOR in the Vezionica
(25)compound in Srebrenica. The plan envisages seizure of materiel and
(20)
JUDGE RODRIGUES:
[Int.] Yes, Mr. Petrusic, we do have
the document. But in any event, I think it is always a good idea to place
it on the ELMO, because I was able to note that there may be certain
differences between the translation that we have here on paper and the
interpretation that we get from the booths on the basis of the B/C/S
(25)document, which means that tomorrow, if we have to review these documents
MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] • Q.: Please, General, continue.
• A.: This document is linked to the participation of the 28th Division
in offensive operations carried out by the forces of the 2nd Corps along
(15)the axis from Tuzla to Srebrenica and vice versa as part of the offensive
operations going from the direction of Srebrenica towards Tuzla with the
purpose of linking up with the forces of the 2nd Corps.
When I was speaking about the fact that when taking over duties
and being briefed about the situation, among others, in the army of the
(20)Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina, their intentions and goals with respect to
the area of responsibility of the Drina Corps, and I said that I had been
briefed that those forces, in spite of the fact that this was a safe area
and the fact that the area of Zepa and Srebrenica should constitute
demilitarised zones, that nevertheless, they were constantly procuring
(25)weapons. And one of the ways in which they armed themselves was through
• Q.: This plan envisages opening of fire in certain cases in the process of the implementation of the plan, and this is part of the assignment of the 5th Squad, on page 2. Do you have any comments to make? (15)
• A.: Yes. With respect to the tasks given to the other groups, they
were not given such a task. However, the 5th Squad was given such a task,
with the annotation that if UNPROFOR forces put up resistance -- I may
have already said that the Command of the 28th Division and the
subordinate brigade commands and lower-level commands carried out all
(20)combat activities of which UNPROFOR forces were not aware and, as I was
saying -- and it can be seen from this document that one of the tasks, in
quotation -- that one of the targets, in quotation marks, were UNPROFOR
forces, which means that they do not trust the peace mission of the
UNPROFOR forces.
(25)Of course, it is noted that this should be done only if they do
• Q.: The next document is document number 40. 40B, please. This document, too, was issued by the 8th Operative Group of Srebrenica, number (5)01/130-125, dated the 15th of November, 1994, and addressed to the headquarters of the Supreme Command of the army of Bosnia-Herzegovina, attention Brigadier-General Enver Hadzihasanovic, in Kakanj. For the first time, mention is made here of Kakanj as a town, a place within the area of responsibility of the 2nd Corps to which this (10)document is being addressed. Maybe my recollection is not quite correct, but it seems to me at least that this is the first time that we have come across this town in these documents.
• A.: Yes. It is one of the advance command posts of the Supreme Staff
of the army of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina situated in Kakanj, and
(15)in charge is General Enver Hadzihasanovic.
Following the course of subsequent events, we will see what was
the purpose of General Hadzihasanovic's stay at the advance post in
Kakanj -- forward advance post in Kakanj.
From this forward command post, he commanded the operation
(20)code-named Skakavac or Grasshopper. It is an operation of planning and
executing sabotage activities within a broader area of Bosnia-Herzegovina,
among other places, including the eastern part of Bosnia-Herzegovina.
Operation Skakavac is a secret code name of that operation, and in the
implementation of this operation, the forces of the 28th Division from
(25)Srebrenica were included, from Srebrenica and Zepa, regardless of the fact
• Q.: The Commander of the 8th Operative Group, Naser Oric, is requesting from the Brigadier-General reinforcement, and I quote -- I'm (5)sorry, "replenishment of 100.000 pieces of bullets," this is the last page of the document, please, "7.9 millimetre bullets, pieces 55.000; and Zoljas, 150 pieces, or portable grenade launchers; chargers for Osa, a portable rocket launcher, 50 pieces; shells with basic chargers, 200 pieces; and 50 Motorolas," or radio equipment. (10)In view of this fact and the composition, which we'll be coming back to, of the 8th Operative Group, this quantity of ammunition and weapons which is being requested, is it an important indicator for assessing the strength and intentions of the 8th Operative Group in Srebrenica? (15)
• A.: Yes. The Commander of the 8th Operative Group is requesting from
his superior from whom he received orders to carry out a task, in this
case, his task assigned to him by the Supreme Command from the forward
command post in Kakanj, and in response to the question you put to me with
regard to the quantities of ammunition and weapons and materiel requested
(20)by the Commander of the 8th Group, this is fully in line with the task
assigned to the Division. He is requiring fresh supplies of those means
which have already been spent from what they had at their disposal. So
they need these replenishments to be able to embark upon the execution of
the assigned task.
(25)It is very important to mention here the requests for hand-held
(10) MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] The next exhibit is Exhibit 38B. Mr. President, with great hesitation we deviate from the Rules of this Trial Chamber, but I would request only five minutes as a break, please, not more. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] We'll give you ten minutes. (15) MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] Thank you. --- Recess taken at 1.58 p.m. --- On resuming at 2.08 p.m. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Yes, Mr. Petrusic, let us continue. (20) MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] Mr. Usher, would you please place document number 38B on the ELMO. Document number 38B, Command of the 8th Operational Group Srebrenica. Could you please place the document on the ELMO?
• Q.: I'm going to read it because it's rather short. "8th Operation
(25)Group Srebrenica, number 130-01-123/94." The document is dated the 11th
• A.: Yes. The Zepa Brigade was part already at that time of the 28th Division. From the text which you have just quoted and in relation to the (5)implementation of the assignment which was received by the Commander of the 28th Division from the Commander of the 2nd Corps, he makes specific mention of that particular order. From that text it can be seen that the Commander of the 28th Division has certain problems with the Zepa Brigade commander. (10)Regardless of the corridor which had been established between Srebrenica and Zepa, it seems that that brigade was separated from the main forces of the 28th Division in Srebrenica, that is, from the Division Command and other units deployed in the area of Srebrenica.
• Q.: The next document is document number 37B. This document was
(15)issued by the Command of the Srebrenica 8th Operative Group, that is, from
the intelligence section of that group. The number of the document is
130-26-31/94. The document is dated 11th of November, 1994.
I'm going to quote the last paragraph of that document, but let me
just mention that the document is addressed to the 2nd Corps Command, that
(20)is, to the intelligence organ of the Corps.
"Chetniks have probably learned about the forthcoming offensive
activities of our units. That is why they are currently conducting
preparations so as to prevent the intrusion of our forces in the rear area
of the PZT."
(25)And the document is signed by intelligence officer Ekrem
(5) • A.: We did have intelligence reports according to which preparations were under way to plan and conduct offensive activities. This particular document is linked with the previous document. Reconnaissance forces of the 28th Division observed a reinforced presence of the forces of the Drina Corps in the area of the safe zone (10)which were around Srebrenica, that is. The rotations were not taking place as previously, and offensive activities were obviously under way. The forces of the Bratunac and Milici Brigade and the Independent Skelani Battalion were deployed, all of them, on the positions around the protected area. (15) • Q.: As regards the combat readiness of the Milici and Bratunac Brigade and the Independent Skelani Battalion, was that combat readiness linked and made conditional upon the activity of the 28th Division?
• A.: Yes. That was the reason for their combat readiness, that is, the
activity of the 28th Division. All forces of the Drina Corps at that
(20)time, regardless of the place of their deployment, whether it was in the
north-west part of its area of responsibility in Zivinice, Zepa, Kladanj,
and Olovo or around the enclaves of Zepa and Gorazde were on a higher
level of combat readiness because of the Grasshopper or Skakovac Operation
whose preparations were under way and because of the operations that were
(25)being under way by the forces of the BH army in the area.
• A.: Yes. When it comes to these type of activities, they usually
focused on the unoccupied areas around the Srebrenica protected --
(20)Srebrenica and Zepa protected areas. And they infiltrated these type of
forces into those areas for the purpose of conducting the type of
activities that you just quoted from this document. The document was not
signed by the Commander but the Assistant Commander for Security Affairs,
Nedzad Bektic.
(25)However, despite a presence of reinforced forces of the Drina
• Q.: Let us move on to document number 42B. This document was issued (5)by the Main Staff of the Supreme Command of the armed forces of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. It was issued to -- at KM Kakanj. The number of district, confidential document is 02-1/1608-1. The document was issued on the 13th of December, 1994. The document was issued by Brigadier-General Enver Hadzihasanovic and is actually a (10)response to the document which was sent by the Zepa Brigade, number 180-78/94. In this document, on page 2, I will quote the words of the Brigadier-General: "To conduct sabotage activities on the axis used by the supply -- for the supply lines or to infiltrate there so as not to (15)uncover them." General, does that mean that in this particular case, the Zepa Brigade had a kind of communication line or march route which it used for the supply of ammunition and weapons in the area, and does it mean that the Brigadier-General who signed this document was in charge of all these (20)activities?
• A.: Yes, that is correct. I already explained and described earlier
on the Supreme Command of the BH army was directly in charge and was
directly conducting everything through the 2nd Corps Command. Very often,
they were -- they had an immediate and direct control over all of the
(25)activities that were conducted by the 28th Division. This very document
• Q.: In paragraph 4 of this document, the following is stated, I quote: "The procedure with UNPROFOR was indicated in strictly confidential document number 02-1/1597-1. However, they should not be permitted to pull out. However, in case you cannot prevent them from (10)doing so, you should seize the weapons from them, the weapons that had been handed over for us -- by us for storage." General, did you have any knowledge about the relationship between members of the BH forces and UNPROFOR, and did any reports from liaison officers reach the command concerning those problems, if there were such (15)cases? • A.: Not too -- not enough. We did dispose of certain intelligence data concerning the relationship between the 28th Division command and UNPROFOR command in Srebrenica. However, as regards these particular data and the document that was quoted earlier on regarding the disarming of (20)UNPROFOR in Srebrenica were the only documents which had such detailed information contained in them.
• Q.: Could I ask for document number 43B, and if it could be put on the
ELMO. This will be our last document for today.
This document was issued by the Staff of the Supreme Command of
(25)the armed forces of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kakanj Command
• A.: Earlier on I mentioned this operation because we had information about its secret code name, and also about the activities that were part of that operation in the area of responsibility of the Drina Corps and (10)around its area of responsibility. This operation was conducted and commanded by General Hadzihasanovic, Enver Hadzihasanovic, and the document shows once again that the 28th Division from Srebrenica and Zepa, pursuant to the orders of General Hadzihasanovic, participated in the events that were taking (15)place. Among other things it states, and if you will allow me I will quote only the first paragraph: "With the purpose of continuing the Ciko-Kale operation, which is only a part of the secret Operation Skakavac, which was regulated in the (20)order issued by the Chief of Staff of the General Staff, Brigadier-General Enver Hadzihasanovic, and approved by the Commander of the army of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina ..." which means that the Commander of the Main Staff of the army of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina was involved in this action. And we know very well who that person was at the time. (25)
THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the counsel, please.
• Q.: General, we are now approaching a period of time during which you were absent from the Corps. On the 29th of December, 1994, you stepped on an antipersonnel mine, you sustained injuries, and as a result of that you (5)were transferred to the Sokolac military hospital. MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] Mr. President, with your permission, I believe that this would be a convenient time to stop the testimony of our witness today and to resume tomorrow morning. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Yes, Mr. Harmon. (10) MR. HARMON: Mr. President and Your Honours, I notice that we have seen 14 exhibits this afternoon and this morning that are only in B/C/S, and in order to prepare properly for cross-examination, we would request that we receive copies of these in English. I anticipate that the cross-examination may start as early as Friday, so I bring that to the (15)Court's attention and make that request. Thank you.
JUDGE RODRIGUES:
[Int.] Yes, Mr. Harmon. Thank you very
much. I myself also had the intention of asking about the translation
issue. I'm not going to ask that the documents be translated into French
as well.
(20)As you know, tomorrow we will be sitting until 2.00 only, and I
thought that we might have three blocks of one hour and ten minutes, with
three breaks of 20 minutes in between. I don't know if this is agreeable
with General Krstic and his health condition.
Let me ask you, General Krstic. What do you think of the proposed
(25)schedule? How do you feel about it? You don't have to stand up.
JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Thank you. We will try, we will make an attempt, but whenever you need a break, please tell us so. Can we (5)agree on that? THE WITNESS: [Int.] Yes. Thank you very much, Your Honour. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Very well, then. Mr. Petrusic, I don't know if you wish to add anything to this (10)proposal. MR. PETRUSIC: [Int.] No, Mr. President. We accept your proposal, by all means. JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Int.] Thank you very much. Tomorrow at 9.30, and we will be working until 2.00. (15) --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 2.37 p.m., to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 17th day of October, 2000, at 9.30 a.m. |
