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T'Bonz
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Regarding Mod signatures
#355633 - 2002/08/29 09:02 PM
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Guys, I know that we let folks slide to 4-5 lines of sig and that is fine by me.But because of complaints, it would be prudent for ALL mods to have their sigs if they use same within regulation, that is to say, 2-3 lines. We can't bitch (or even warn) folks like Wordin about his sig (which is 6, over even the informal limit) when mods have 4 or 5. I'm not one to warn folks for sigs, I just don't give a damn, but since a few of you have been doing so, we need to be consistent about it. And for those of us who use sigs, we must stay within the guidelines ourselves, so please check your sigs and if it's over 3 lines, please adjust accordingly. If not, I'm sending the bitching posts to YOU! 
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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Evil Robert
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Rear Admiral
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stupid double post[This message has been edited by Evil Robert (edited August 30, 2002).]
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It takes a lot of courage to show your dreams to someone else. - Erma Bombeck
Lock your chevrons to StarGateBBS TODAY! The best StarGate board around!
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Evil Robert
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Rear Admiral
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I only have one line for a sig... and that is if I use it... Though you are correct, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. ------------------
Don't feed the Romulans...
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It takes a lot of courage to show your dreams to someone else. - Erma Bombeck
Lock your chevrons to StarGateBBS TODAY! The best StarGate board around!
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Orion Randy
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Rear Admiral
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T'Bonz is quite correct. I think it was Huntingdon who pointed it out to me that my old five line sig was too long, and I've trimmed it to three lines per his request.  ------------------
Orion Press -- For Excellence in Star Trek Fanzines
http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpress
orionpress@fastcopyinc.com
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Orion Press - For Excellence in Star Trek Fanzines
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Neroon
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Vice Admiral
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SIgs are one thing I have never really warned for, unless they contained flame/troll material. Once in awhile I caution someone and ask them to trim it, if it's over by a significant amount. Other than that, I let them be. It's a tough one to enforce, and leads to more problems than it's worth. Once you start, it's hard to go back.
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"Because while I do not know who the enemy is any longer, I do know who my friends are, and that I have not done as well by them as I should." -Londo, "No Surrender, No Retreat"
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Lord Garth
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Rear Admiral
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Shoot! It's too bad too, because this is what I was considering for my new signature!  ------------------
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Huntingdon
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Vice Admiral
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quote:
Originally posted by Neroon:
Once you start, it's hard to go back.
Tell me about it.  However, once you've got the rule established, it's much easier to enforce, since sigs. tend not to change that often. ------------------
Member of the Mod Squad
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Member of the Mod Squad
We are the Admirals. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. 
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T'Bonz
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Admiral
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Well shitsky.All hell has broken loose with Wordin and the sig thing. And he does have a point, we are inconsistent. I was backing Verteron (I don't normally give a tinker's damn about sig lengths) and stepped right into the trap. I wish he had patrolled my forum since he was so hell-bent on going through it with a fine-toothed comb looking for offenders. So either we let it go with him and all, or we enforce. I know a few mods may be snickering, as this was brought up and blown off a while back, but I guess we really DO have to resolve it one way or the other. Bleh. To be honest, I don't care if we enforce it or not, but we have to be consistent one way or the other. Which means, if we do enforce it, I'll have to get off of my lazy ass and tell folks to shorten them, and that is a bloody nuisance *sigh*. Oh well. Thoughts? [This message has been edited by T'Bonz (edited August 30, 2002).]
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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Aatrek
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Commodore
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While I don't go on signature hunts through my forum, I do tend to ask those who I notice to shorten their signatures to 3 - 4 lines.Usually, it gets taken care of.
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Vic: "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"
Odo: "I have no idea."
Vic: "Practice, practice, practice! Get it?"
Odo: "No."
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Lord Garth
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Rear Admiral
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Why did this whole signature thing get started up in the first place? To me it's kind of silly. It comes across to me as "let's make up a rule, just for the sake of it!"
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Aatrek
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Commodore
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Well, some people have 10-line signatures, and those 10 lines are double spaced. That's bigger that most posts.It gets very distracting.
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Vic: "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"
Odo: "I have no idea."
Vic: "Practice, practice, practice! Get it?"
Odo: "No."
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Huntingdon
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Vice Admiral
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It's when the sig is longer than the post that it irritates me, aside from the distraction value. 2-3 lines limits the ocasions where that happens. Also, if people post it repeatedly in the same thread, then it does add to the loading time etc. Again, the rule minimises the damage.I also have a question about this - I've been taking it to mean that only lines of text count (as I believe Bonz argued when asked to reduce hers). More recently, I've seen someone else comment that it includes spaces too. The rule explicitly mentions text, but do people feel that spaces are included as well? I feel they should be, because they cause the same problems as text, but I don't think the rule allows for that, given it's current status.
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Member of the Mod Squad
We are the Admirals. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
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T'Bonz
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Admiral
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I figured it was lines of text. But so as to not give folks stuff over which to whine, I got rid of the spaces and made it three tight lines. That way, no one could use it against me (good thing too, as I'm sure it would be used this very moment against me had I not done so  )[This message has been edited by T'Bonz (edited August 30, 2002).]
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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Orion Randy
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Rear Admiral
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Since being told to shorten mine, I've enforced the five line limits. Spaces count. Fortunately, only one person got mad about it. What I object to most is the folks who post a one liner answer and then give you a six line sig.  Wordin comes to mind. So does The God Thing (who shortened his 6 liner at my request) and Dennis Bailey (who also shortened his 7 liner at my request). And I'm one of those eating crow on it, Bonz. Mine was five lines, and I don't see anything wrong with five lines. And I said I wouldn't enforce Wordin's. But to be honest, if I'm enforcing a five line limit in TOS, Hunt's enforcing a three line limit in NEM, and there's no enforcement elsewhere, then folks have a right to complain about inconsistent application. What's the term for it "unequal application of the law"? Frankly, given the increasing number of larger sigs, maybe an official sig-announcement with a definite limit should be made and enforced. But again, I'd also recommend that sigs be used sparingly. Not with every single post. *reads back over this thread and realizes* Geez, I'm sounding more and more like my parents with each passing moment. I need to get an ice cold Mike's Hard Lemonade and sit down and watch Harry Potter or something. Gnite all.
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Orion Press - For Excellence in Star Trek Fanzines
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T'Bonz
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Admiral
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LOL...I'll take one too. We need to all do the same thing and make up our minds what that will be. I don't care what, as long as no one can pick it apart out there. Whatever. Some folks out there take all the damned joy and fun out of this place.
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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Verteron
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Commodore
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quote:
Originally posted by T'Bonz:
All hell has broken loose with [b]Wordin and the sig thing. And he does have a point, we are inconsistent. I was backing Verteron (I don't normally give a tinker's damn about sig lengths) and stepped right into the trap.[/B]
I shouldn't have provoked him. I knew what his reaction would be, as inevitably it always is. *sigh*. Sorry.  [This message has been edited by Verteron (edited August 30, 2002).]
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Verteron
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Commodore
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-double-[This message has been edited by Verteron (edited August 30, 2002).]
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Neroon
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Vice Admiral
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He's in rare form these past few days, but he does have a point. It does appear as if he's being singled out. The aggressiveness towards his complaints comes from mods and other members, but he's the only one receiving that treatment. Okay, so most others who have asked have complied, and this numbskull hasn't endeared himself elsewhere. You don't suppose our reaction (and please not I said "our", meaning me too) to him stems from his willingness to criticize, do you?If this thread is leaked his ego will be so immense from all the energy devoted to him, it will develop it's own gravity well. He creates these pseudo-controversies so that he will get attention, and we give it to him! A more effective approach might be to list several of the people who have willingly shortened their signatures when asked. Maybe shame will work. Right. And Ted Kennedy will be GW's running mate in the next election! [This message has been edited by Neroon (edited August 30, 2002).]
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"Because while I do not know who the enemy is any longer, I do know who my friends are, and that I have not done as well by them as I should." -Londo, "No Surrender, No Retreat"
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Demiurge
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Rear Admiral
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You guys are missing the point. Any indication of impropriety should be handled - and a thank you should be given to Wordin for his efforts to show that there is indeed a larger issue with the sigs then previously realized.And everytime he posts after that with his long sig, he should get a warning. Most members have no problem altering their sig - he won't out of pride. He has no case if the other members are asked to shorten their sigs, hell, you could have an admin do an announcement concerning it, explaining to the membership why it's necessary for bandwidth reasons. Then anyone who does so really doesn't have a leg to stand on. If wordin changes his sig to accomodate us, wonderful. If he doesn't, he'll wrack up a lot of warnings pretty quickly I would think. Now if this is what this is really about - the fact we need the bandwidth - why are we even discussing this with the guy? Say thank you, you are right. Change your sig.
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'once more unto the breach dear friends'
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Lisa
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Trek Nation Administrator
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But he has a point. Does anyone feel comfortable banning someone because his sig was too long?We need some consistency on the issue. Perhaps we should all attempt to ask people to shorten their sigs if they've got 5 lines or over?
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Inspector Kashyk stole my sig...
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Demiurge
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Rear Admiral
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Lis - it's less that he is violating a rather nitpicky rule - and more that he is doing so directly in QSF with no consequence. If he is requested by an admin to change his sig, that shouldn't be an open invitation to debate. If he wants to continue the debate AFTER he has altered his sig, fine.Do I think he should be warned for ignoring a policy related request by an appropriate authority on the board? Hell yes. Do I think he should be banned if he gets enough warnings? Of course. Do I think he should be permabanned? Not for this. Now, if there is no bandwidth related reason for the change in sig, then shame on us. If there is, apply it to everyone - even the people who complain about it. Because otherwise you are saying if I complain about the rules I'm exempt from them as long as I complain, and that's a horrible precedent.
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'once more unto the breach dear friends'
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Kitty
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Commodore
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I completely agree with Demiurge. quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
But he has a point. Does anyone feel comfortable banning someone because his sig was too long?
Yes. If he fails to follow the rules willfully and repeatedly, he will be banned. It doesn't matter what the rule is. quote:
We need some consistency on the issue. Perhaps we should all attempt to ask people to shorten their sigs if they've got 5 lines or over?
Yes. Do this and then enforce it. Call it spamming. It's taking up unnecessary bandwidth with the same thing over and over. I don't have a problem warning for repeat offenders. It would be nice if it didn't have to come to banning someone for a sig infraction but it's their choice to follow the rules or not. This has been said so many times before - this is not a democracy. Enforcing the rules makes the board a more pleasant place for those 10,000 people not complaining that the rules are unfair. Reasonable people know that when they come to a message board they must follow the rules of that board. I do not see why this is an issue.
[This message has been edited by Kitty (edited August 30, 2002).]
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AdAstra
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When the signatures attract my attention, I ask the people in question to shorten it. I haven't warned for it, since all of them shortened them.------------------
"Infinity attracts us like a floodlight in the night, blinding us to the excesses it can inflict upon the finite"
- Meditations from Bifrost Eyrie, Buddislamic Text
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Inside my heart is breaking... but my smile still stays on.
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Orion Randy
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Rear Admiral
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Having slept on it, I say that we inform everyone with six lines or more to shorten their sigs. I've been doing this in TOS for some time now anyways (ever since I was asked to shorten mine). I have no problem with issuing warnings or bans for it any more than I have for issuing warnings or bans for any other board rule infraction. The overuse of sigs and the length of those sigs present a problem? Well, let's put out foot down.
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Orion Press - For Excellence in Star Trek Fanzines
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RevdKathy
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Commodore
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I suggest we adopt a policy, and try to all stick to it. It won't be easy, since most sigs just slide right past me when I'm reading. But I suggest we make a statement about sig length, and the ask everyone whose sig goes over 5 lines to shorten it. They all will - except Wordin. Anyone who flatly refuses wracks up a warning."No, Your Honour, I won't stop speeding. Other people break the speeding restrictions so why shouldn't I?" 
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"It's difficult to control so many things in so little time"
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Lord Garth
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Rear Admiral
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quote:
Originally posted by RevdKathy:
They all will - except Wordin. Anyone who flatly refuses wracks up a warning.
That suits me just fine! [This message has been edited by Lord Garth (edited August 30, 2002).]
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Huntingdon
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We currently have a policy. It is 2-3 lines, explicitly.If you want to change it fine, but at the moment the 2-3 limit should be enforced, or dropped at all with a message stating that is no longer the rule. And I hate to mention this, but I brought this all up when I first became moderator. Perhaps we could deal with things before they become a big issue.
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Member of the Mod Squad
We are the Admirals. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
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T'Bonz
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Admiral
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I agree. We need to decide. 2-3 or 5. And if so, are we going to enforce it evenly (we almost have to, if not, we might as well toss that rule out the window, as folks will post novels as sigs.)I never have paid much heed to it (if truth be told, it never makes it over my radar, it's such a minor thing), but on the other hand, I'm afraid folks will start making really long ones. I never minded 5-6 lines, but some folks can and will take advantage. And he's right, we can't unevenly enforce it. What we need is a final word. So Lisa or Christian, what's it to be? Strict enforcement of the 2-3? 5? Just say what is what and we'll get off our asses and just do it. Even me.
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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Lord Garth
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Rear Admiral
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Hudington: I'm not going to warn people if they have four lines in their sig. I'm telling you that flat out. More than five? Fine, that sounds reasonable. But not for more than 2 or 3.There are more important things to worry about like trolls, flame wars, and maintaining a good atmosphere in our respective forums. quote:
Originally posted by T'Bonz:
Even me.
Same here. I'll do it, if that's what you want us to do. [This message has been edited by Lord Garth (edited August 30, 2002).]
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Scotty
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There should be some kind of signature restiction when the new software will be implemented, making it impossible to have a sig over 3 lines. I for one don't understand why people need to have such large sugnatures. They can be quite distracting. And in my experience people tend to read the small signatures but ignore the large ones.------------------
"I want to live in a world where I can eat a sea-otter without getting sick!"
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Hello, hello! What's all this shouting? We'll have no trouble here!
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Huntingdon
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Garth:
[b]Hudington: I'm not going to warn people if they have four lines in their sig. I'm telling you that flat out. More than five? Fine, that sounds reasonable. But not for more than 2 or 3.
[/B]
I didn't make the rule. I'd be quite happy to extend it to 4, but we have it as a rule and we should either enforce it, modify it, or drop it completely. What we do need is consistency. If you allow 4 when the rest of us are sticking to the prescribed 3, then it's going to look bad and some people will try and take advantage of such a divide. And, for the record, everyone I've asked has shortened their signature without me warning them, barring one exception. It's taken more than one request in most instances, but they did comply without a warning. [This message has been edited by Huntingdon (edited August 30, 2002).]
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Member of the Mod Squad
We are the Admirals. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
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susannah
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What's the big deal about asking people with sigs over three lines to shorten them? I do so whenever I happen to notice one that's too long. It's not hard or time-consuming. It is my job, and the rest of yours, too.
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More fun than a barrel of monkeys.
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Mxyztplk
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Rear Admiral
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It's hardly the worst offense, but it gets so damned annoying to scroll through someone who has three freakin' pages of quotes for a sig. Asking politely wouldn't be too much of a problem.And if they do, just quote my sig... ------------------
Can you dig it, Sucka?
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Can you dig it, Sucka?
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Orion Randy
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Then what is the consensus? 3 or 5?
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Orion Press - For Excellence in Star Trek Fanzines
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Aatrek
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Commodore
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I vote for 3.
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Vic: "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"
Odo: "I have no idea."
Vic: "Practice, practice, practice! Get it?"
Odo: "No."
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Mutai Sho-Rin
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Commodore
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In one rare instance, the Sho-Rin sets a positive example. ------------------
"Into the sands of blood comes the Sho-Rin, master of the Mutai." Babylon 5 - TKO The self same Sho-Rin will attempt to be a Moderator of Moderation!
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Into the sands of blood comes the Sho-Rin, master of the Mutai. Babylon 5 - TKO
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Lord Garth
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I'd prefer 5, like I said earlier, but I can go with 3.[This message has been edited by Lord Garth (edited August 30, 2002).]
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Evil Robert
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Rear Admiral
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Well under the new software, will the signatures be smaller?
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It takes a lot of courage to show your dreams to someone else. - Erma Bombeck
Lock your chevrons to StarGateBBS TODAY! The best StarGate board around!
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Neroon
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Vice Admiral
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Why don't we set it at 3.5? Or better yet, make it random!!!!!!
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"Because while I do not know who the enemy is any longer, I do know who my friends are, and that I have not done as well by them as I should." -Londo, "No Surrender, No Retreat"
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where'sSaavik?
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Rear Admiral
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Reged: 2000/07/03
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Garth:
Why did this whole signature thing get started up in the first place?
I noticed that it was part of the rules for Slipstream, thought it was a good idea, and asked Christian to move it over here as well. He must have thought it was a good idea as well. Long sigs are annoying and contribute little if nothing to the board. Better to keep it short and sweet. I have warned for long sigs before, but only after asking the dumbfuck to shorten like 14 times. But it's such a pain in the ass to enforce if you're the only one doing it that I just gave up on it. It's nice to see some will to enforce it again. I'd support either a 3 or 5 line limit. Ultimately though, I'd like to see a software imposed limit. A character limit just built into the system that we wouldn't have to enforce. I thought we had already agreed on that. ------------------
Question Authority.
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Question Authority.
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Huntingdon
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I don't mind either 3 or 5. I think 3 would make threads flow more smoothly, but simply having a firm number is all I really want.[This message has been edited by Huntingdon (edited August 31, 2002).]
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Member of the Mod Squad
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AlphaMan
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! ------------------
Q: We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons and for one brief moment you did….. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered… That is the exploration that awaits you… not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence. Q in All Good Things
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This Reality Check™ is a registered trademark of AlphaMan, Inc. © 2003
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^Eh? If you move the credit to the start to say "Q, in All Good Things:", it stays within the rules.
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Member of the Mod Squad
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AlphaMan
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I don't know what's going on in your browser windows, but the length of my sig seems to change with the size of my window and screen resolution... with a maximized window and at 1800x1078, my sig can be as little as 1 line. How can we possibly enforce something so subjective? Word counts? AlphaM.
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quote:
Originally posted by Huntingdon:
^Eh? If you move the credit to the start to say "Q, in All Good Things:", it stays within the rules.
Oh. Nevermind.
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Huntingdon
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^ It is subjective, but a cursory survey in the admiral's lounge revealed that most people view the board with text size set to medium. I, therefore, always switch to that setting when checking signature length.
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Member of the Mod Squad
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Enterpriser
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Hi, folks. As you may have noticed, I have changed the fomatting of my sig lines so that, on my monitor, it takes up only three lines. If it's still too lengthy, please let me know. Thanks! P.S.: A sample of the signature line, reformatted as of yesterday, is presented hereinbelow. ------------------
The Enterprise Factual Details Page - LATEST: "DETAINED" - NOW LISTED ON SEARCH ENGINES*|*|*|*Fan Fiction - "Star Trek: Galactica" (Working Title) - **NEWLY UPDATED** (06-19-02)*|*|*|*Views and Comment
May God bless America.
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Enterprise Factual Details Star Trek: Galactica
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quote:
Originally posted by Huntingdon:
It is subjective, but a cursory survey in the admiral's lounge revealed that most people view the board with text size set to medium. I, therefore, always switch to that setting when checking signature length.
If we hack a character limit into the board we wouldn't have to worry about that.
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quote:
Originally posted by Mutai Sho-Rin:
In one rare instance, the [b]Sho-Rin sets a positive example. [/B]
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.  ---------- Waiting for Lisa and/or Christian to give us some definitive guidance so we can move on and go out there and know what to do. [This message has been edited by T'Bonz (edited August 31, 2002).]
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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quote:
Originally posted by Enterpriser:
If it's still too lengthy, please let me know.
It's fine. Lets hope we get that hack then.
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quote:
Originally posted by Huntingdon:
It's fine.
Cool!
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Folks...... please stop encouraging wordin. There is absolutely nothing that will mollify him, short of his being named a mod here or having the lot of us dismissed. Every comment he ends up twisting so that he can look the part of the brave rebel against the bourgeois TrekBBS. THis sig length business is his latest attempt to gain crediblity with the BBS' critics. It's working, to a small extent because he has a point. But the more we respond on the same issue, the more he carps and carps about it.We either need to stop feeding him material, or give him warnings for refusing to comply with moderator requests. [This message has been edited by Neroon (edited August 31, 2002).]
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"Because while I do not know who the enemy is any longer, I do know who my friends are, and that I have not done as well by them as I should." -Londo, "No Surrender, No Retreat"
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Has anyone else noticed that he's posted it in all the forums to see who will ask him to shorten it?
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You know, I want to know why this:Users who the Trek Nation administration believes participate on the Trek BBS to troll, irritate or upset the general BBS population or its moderators may have their accounts locked without prior notice or announcement in order to protect the BBS and its participants., our anti-trolling permaban rule, announced here doesn't seem to apply for him. Is anyone naive enough to believe that this guy is really here to make the board better, when he runs over to TK1, TK2, TK to the infinite power whatever and crows about his victories? Out of 100 posts, you can bet that 97 of them will be in QSF or MA and for the sole purpose of bitching and whining. So why is it that we have a classic case (other than you-know-who) that fits for what this rule was enacted, yet he is allowed to continue harassing and trolling and just keeping on and on and on. I have to listen to everyone saying "why the fuck is this guy still HERE?" and I can't give them an answer! Hell, I can't give ME an answer! And C and L give me vague "well he's just giving valid criticism, blah blah de blah." Well I say "bullshit". I should pull a Wordin and waste two hours like he did and pull ALL of his posts from the last few months and PROVE that this guy is only here to troll and annoy. But I won't. Because you already know it and I'm not going to waste my time doing this. But WHY is this guy allowed to continue harassing us like this?
[This message has been edited by T'Bonz (edited August 31, 2002).]
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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Can I get an "amen?"AMEN! I mean, really -- when's the last time anybody saw him post without referring to either a mod, the administration, or badmouthing another poster? I can't say I've ever seen him post anything constructive in the Trek forums. If we were to hit the permaban button, and then announce it in Annoucements (like when Daystrom et al were kicked), I'd bet that out of 100 responses, maybe two would be negative.
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Vic: "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"
Odo: "I have no idea."
Vic: "Practice, practice, practice! Get it?"
Odo: "No."
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quote:
Originally posted by Huntingdon:
Has anyone else noticed that he's posted it in all the forums to see who will ask him to shorten it?
He hasn't in TOS as far as I've seen.
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Orion Press - For Excellence in Star Trek Fanzines
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quote:
Originally posted by T'Bonz:
But WHY is this guy allowed to continue harassing us like this?
I could ask the same about a few other posters who seem to reside only in MA, but hey, I'm mean. Seriously, the sig issue is a legitimate one. Probably only the second time I've actually agreed with anything he's had to say in the past year. Either it's enforced, or it's not. But there needs to be a consensus. Will he take credit? Well, sure, but we can crack down on sigs and if there's any question, *chuckle*, we can blame it on Wordin. "Well, we weren't going to really enforce this rule, but since Wordin wants it enforced." *LOL* Sorry, been working with four teenagers trying to train them this week, and blaming one another seems to be the modus operandi for all four.
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Wordin hasn't shown his face in fic either. I do occasionally call people on sigs in there, too. Not that many use sigs.And a hearty Amen to T'Bonz, even if that is the quote I gave you yesterday ! [This message has been edited by RevdKathy (edited August 31, 2002).]
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"It's difficult to control so many things in so little time"
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The way I see it, wordin is using MA and QSF to advertise TK. If that's the case, he should be writing Christian a check, and get a nice flashy banner across the top of the screen. What he doing is hanging out in MA and QSF to try and appeal to perhaps disenfranchised BBS'ers and post with links in his signature so that they come and see what it's all about... When people do that, that's called marketing... He knows his demographic and is trying to appeal to them in MA and QSF... When people use you to do things like that, they should pay you. OTOH, if wordin was permabanned, it might serve to validate his arguements... it might look to some posters that we were unable to handle ourselves and decided to get rid of him in order to take the heat off of us.. I think that a wordin permaban would have TK'rs all over this forum... Just a hunch.. I have nothing to back that up with. At this point, I think a permaban of wordin might make him a TK martyr. AlphaM.
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The TK'ers are already all over this board.
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"Because while I do not know who the enemy is any longer, I do know who my friends are, and that I have not done as well by them as I should." -Londo, "No Surrender, No Retreat"
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Christian
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As annoying as it is, I also think wordin has got a point here, and we'll just need to start asking people to indeed go changing their signatures.And that then is also the reason why we can't be locking wordin's account. Banning him now would look like we're just doing it to stop someone with criticism on us.
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quote:
Originally posted by Christian:
As annoying as it is, I also think wordin has got a point here, and we'll just need to start asking people to indeed go changing their signatures.
So how many lines, Christian? Three? Five?
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Orion Press - For Excellence in Star Trek Fanzines
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Lisa
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Lets go with five. If anyone sees a poster with a sig of 5 lines or more, please ask them to shorten it. If we can have everyone trying to be consistent on this issue it would help lots. If they refuse to shorten it after being asked to do so - then, we'll think about warnings.
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Inspector Kashyk stole my sig...
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So 1-4 OK. 5+ not ok.But we need to know for sure, is it OK to warn if 5 or over and they refuse to shorten it?
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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Lisa
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What I'm saying is you should ask someone to shorten it if their sig is 5 lines or more.
Five lines is the border. If you see someone wiht a 5 line sig, please ask them to shorten it. No, four is not ok, but we'll growl in the background. The line needs to be drawn somewhere and we're making the call on 5. Spaces do count as a line. If you ask and they refuse to do so ala Wordin, you'd be justified in handing out a warning. Please be careful with this however. You shoudl try to use this only in areas where someone is deliberatley being stubborn over the issue - again ala Wordin.
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Inspector Kashyk stole my sig...
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Thanks for the clarification. I'll start enforcing it from now on, as soon as I start my normal patrols.
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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Can we please just get a character limit on the new board?
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Question Authority.
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quote:
Originally posted by Christian:
As annoying as it is, I also think [b]wordin has got a point here, and we'll just need to start asking people to indeed go changing their signatures.And that then is also the reason why we can't be locking wordin's account. Banning him now would look like we're just doing it to stop someone with criticism on us. [/B]
Now, onto this other matter. Wordin got lucky with this issue and he was right. My point is, he is actively searching for this kind of crap and clever enough to find it. Surely no one is naive enough to think that he just wants to improve the place and is "just being critical". ROFL. He WANTS to make us look bad and demoralize us, this is my opinion. And I'm not alone, and you must admit, he's doing a fantastic job of it. And maybe it would look bad now to do it, sure, I can agree with that. Right. But why the hell haven't we done it the other two dozen times? Because it really looks to me, and to many others, like he has some sort of "in" or "hold" on you guys. And now if we do anything, there will always be the "well you're out to get me" complaint. So we do nothing...not now, not ever? I seem to remember a promise that if he caused trouble again then you'd ban him. What exactly comprises trouble? This means he can troll us with impunity. Can you not see how very frustrating this is? It does nothing for the staff and looks bad for the board in general.
[This message has been edited by T'Bonz (edited August 31, 2002).]
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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We have a saying in TNZ when you're losing an arguement... It's called DD&B... Duck, Dodge and Belittle. Works like a charm. When you are on a losing side of an arguement, just do a DD&B. Duck and Dodge the issue and Belittle the poster. j/k... Bonzie.As far as wordin goes, even a broken clock is right two times of the day... Try not to let him bother you. I have to admit though that I too have sometimes wondered if he has "Something" on you guys C&L...
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^^^ Hey! that was a pretty nice B!!
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*shakes his head*So the policy is meaningless? I really don't understand the logic used here. The policy explicitly says 2-3 lines. But we will only ask people to change them if they are over 5. Are we changing the policy then?
If so, when will that be updated? If you don't want to use the policy you yourself created, what is the point in having it?
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'once more unto the breach dear friends'
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I think the hedgin here is because warning people for sig length is normally not that big of a problem, and imho..... just doesn't seem like a matter worth the trouble in the first place.
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"Because while I do not know who the enemy is any longer, I do know who my friends are, and that I have not done as well by them as I should." -Londo, "No Surrender, No Retreat"
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Bonzie, could you or one of the other admins post a thread in the Announcements page that members are to be reminded to limit their sigs to two or three lines, just so that this doesn't come across as the mods being dickheads.
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I think my current announcement in MA has been ignored long enough. Nobody apparently reads it much anyway. I think I will change it to remind everyone about the sig length.
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"Because while I do not know who the enemy is any longer, I do know who my friends are, and that I have not done as well by them as I should." -Londo, "No Surrender, No Retreat"
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Then state so in the policy. Thing is, if you bother to write things down as 'this is how it is done', then ignore those rules, you confue people - and they begin to think the rules aren't enforced.IMHO the policy shouldn't be a hedge or a fall back or something we consult from time to time, but the way things are. Why are we allowing 5 lines when the policy says three? It seems like the admins don't understand that that is the very same reason that they get criticized over stupid stuff like this in the first place, just playing in to the hands of the trolls? If you allow 5, the policy should say 5. Anything else just ensures that we go through this same stupid melodrama by some perceptive troublemaker again in the future. Those who don't understand the past are doomed to repeat it.
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'once more unto the breach dear friends'
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^^^My understanding is that we're NOT allowing five.
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Orion Press - For Excellence in Star Trek Fanzines
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quote:
Originally posted by Demiurge:
Those who don't understand the past are doomed to repeat it.
Understanding the past is key, indeed.
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Enterprise Factual Details Star Trek: Galactica
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It's five because we need to draw a line under the absolute limit of what is acceptable, and make it clear for mods and admins when they need to take action. In my view, chewing someone out because their sig is a line over the limit is a little petty. It reminds me of being at school - when we had two deputy heads. One sat in his office all the time working away. The other patrolled the coridoors jumping on innocent people and telling them to tuck their shirts in rather angrily. One day he picked on me when I was in a bad mood and I decided I'd had enough. "Sir," I said "Do you know how bad it looks that you're the deputy headmaster of this school and you spend every spare minute you have wandering around telling people to tuck their shirts in? When Mister Kingston is always bevering away working in his office?" He spluttered something and never told me to tuck my shirt in again. In short, I will not have mods going around picking up people because they have a four line sig when the rules says they can only have three. Its a bit ridiculous. We'll give them one line grace, and we now have a standard that everyone knows and understands.
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Inspector Kashyk stole my sig...
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Everyone knows and understands? No, that is patently incorrect. A new user that comes on to the board will see the policy which explicitly states 2-3 lines. We now have exactly the same situation that we did when Wordin started his complaint. The rule that is stated in policy and what we enforce aren't the same. If you want to make the sig length 20 or ignore it completely I don't care - but we need to enforce the policy as it is written otherwise it doesn't mean a thing, and Mods will continually be put in a situation where the admins are telling them to enforce something other than what the supposed rules of the board are.
So now we allow 4 - which breaks the policy - but won't allow 5, which also breaks the policy as written. Wordin comes in, has 6 lines in his policy, and can still make the same point he has made up to this point (which for some reason is still allowed to continue) - that other people aren't following the guidelines.
Just set the guidelines in the written policy as those you actually want to see enforced. That gives the people who are enforcing the rules you and Christian agree on a leg to stand on. If you don't really want the rule to be 3 lines or less for the sig, you need to change it in the policy. Otherwise you are just giving the trolls more ammo to hurl at the moderators. Which isn't fair to them.
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'once more unto the breach dear friends'
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susannah
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Vice Admiral
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Reged: 1999/10/26
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Loc: Chapel Hill, NC USA
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I completely agree.
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More fun than a barrel of monkeys.
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where'sSaavik?
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Rear Admiral
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Reged: 2000/07/03
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Loc: Springfield, Just Another State, USA
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I've begun to regret bringing the whole damn thing up. Can we please just get a character limit?
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Question Authority.
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Jethro Elvis
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Vice Admiral
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Reged: 2001/03/21
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Loc: In a van...down by the river
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^That is the best idea yet. We appear to have one in the "interests" box.
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Never miss a good chance to shut up.
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T'Bonz
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Admiral
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Reged: 2001/02/05
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Loc: Somewhere across the Neutral Zone
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quote:
Originally posted by where'sSaavik?:
I've begun to regret bringing the whole damn thing up.
No kidding. I'm sick of it already. **goes out and kicks Wordin **
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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Aatrek
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Commodore
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Reged: 2001/08/17
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Loc: Behind You
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**kicks the back of T'Bonz's leg, therefore doubleing the kicking power which is kicking wordin**
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Vic: "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"
Odo: "I have no idea."
Vic: "Practice, practice, practice! Get it?"
Odo: "No."
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Demiurge
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Rear Admiral
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Reged: 2001/03/06
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Loc: Northern VA USA
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Yeah, we regret you brought it up to! *wink*However, if it helps get this addressed in the new board software with a character limit, that will be well worth it. The less things that require judgement calls on an indivdual basis, the better for the board.
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'once more unto the breach dear friends'
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Orion Randy
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Rear Admiral
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Reged: 2001/07/25
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Loc: Albany, Georgia, USA
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Taking bets that wordin tomorrow will demand we all use the same screen size, the same screen fonts, the same resolution, and the same font size.
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Orion Press - For Excellence in Star Trek Fanzines
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Aatrek
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Commodore
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Reged: 2001/08/17
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Loc: Behind You
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quote:
Originally posted by Orion Randy:
Taking bets that wordin tomorrow will demand we all use the same screen size, the same screen fonts, the same resolution, and the same font size.
Then, we can all give him the same warnings for being the same goddamned pain in our asses!
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Vic: "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"
Odo: "I have no idea."
Vic: "Practice, practice, practice! Get it?"
Odo: "No."
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T'Bonz
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Admiral
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Reged: 2001/02/05
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Loc: Somewhere across the Neutral Zone
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quote:
Originally posted by Demiurge:
Yeah, we regret you brought it up to! *wink*However, if it helps get this addressed in the new board software with a character limit, that will be well worth it. The less things that require judgement calls on an indivdual basis, the better for the board.
Not me bud, was our local pain-in-the-ass poster out there ranting and raving about it. Anyone who knows me knows that in truth I could give a shit. I think I've asked someone ONCE to shorten a sig, it's just not high on my list of priorities. Regrettably, now it has to be, since I had to deal with him out there. Orion Randy, no bet. I think I'm going to cry if I log on tomorrow and see that. Then I'm coming after YOU!
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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Lisa
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Trek Nation Administrator
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Reged: 2000/09/28
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I disagree. I loved OR's speed limit analogy:If you're doing 35 mph in a 30 mph zone, you're not going to get pulled over. If you're doing 40+ however, then you're going to have a problem. The four line 'rule' was never intended for public consumption. It was intended as a yardstick so we could try and get some moderator consistency, that's all. The RULE, the hard and fast RULE, is three lines. However, bugging memebers about 4 lines is just idiotic.
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Inspector Kashyk stole my sig...
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Huntingdon
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Vice Admiral
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Reged: 2002/02/22
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Loc: Lancaster University, U.K.
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
If you're doing 35 mph in a 30 mph zone, you're not going to get pulled over. If you're doing 40+ however, then you're going to have a problem.
Don't ever try that in Essex.
Something about quotas...
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Member of the Mod Squad
We are the Admirals. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
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RevdKathy
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Commodore
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Reged: 2000/10/09
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Loc: St Just, Cornwall, UK
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As I understand even speeding rules, there's a margin of error - both in the widget that tests your speed and the speedo in your vehicle. Within that margin of error, cops will give you the benefit of the doubt: ie you may be doing 34 in a 30 zone, but your speedo says you're only doing 30... and you won't get pulled over.With that in mind, I put this in one of the QSF threads:
quote:
The resolution issue is the reason the rule has been 'hedged' to four lines, when the Board Rules clearly says '2-3'.
Please make your sig so it appears as no more than three lines... to you. If a mod sees 4 lines, that could be due to resolution, screen size, text size etc - so we will let 4 lines slide. More than 4 lines, and you will be asked to shorten your sig. We cannot expect all mods to have exactly the same screen size, resolution and text size - it simply isn't possible.
And I would still be uncomfortable about people who clearly have four lines demarked in their sigs . But it ain't worth the hassle.
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"It's difficult to control so many things in so little time"
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Mutai Sho-Rin
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Commodore
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Reged: 2001/07/31
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Loc: Pleasanton, CA USA
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Just an observation from a professional technical writer.Most of the Sigs that are overtly too long consist of multiple short lines, each ending in a carriage return (CR). In those cases, screen resolution (or window size) is a non-issue. One person had three pieces of show dialog that ate up 15 or 16 lines. It would have been the same number of lines regardless of monitor resolution or window size. wordin's sig was one of these cases. Wrapping of very long lines is a different issue. The longer the line without a CR, the more it can wrap into multiple lines on a narrow or low resolution window. I can narrow my AOL window so that even my own 3-line sig becomes 10 lines or more but that isn't the principal issue.
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Into the sands of blood comes the Sho-Rin, master of the Mutai. Babylon 5 - TKO
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T'Bonz
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Admiral
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Reged: 2001/02/05
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Loc: Somewhere across the Neutral Zone
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
The four line 'rule' was never intended for public consumption. It was intended as a yardstick so we could try and get some moderator consistency, that's all. The RULE, the hard and fast RULE, is three lines. However, bugging memebers about 4 lines is just idiotic.
Oh I agree. Regrettably there is a small subset of members (not just the originator of this whole mess) who want things spelled out SO precisely and who will throw fits if it is perceived that we are not following guidelines to the letter of the law...errr..rules. If we say 2-3, they say "but it's 4 on my font and all". If we slide to 4, they'll have excuses why their six is legit. Basically put - no win scenario. I was going by the 4 that you said, even though the rules state 2-3. Other than a few grumblings, most seem to be OK with it. The whole thing was a pain in the ass. Now just WHO was it that originally told what's-his-face to shorten the sig? (I didn't do it originally! ) Bleh!
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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AlphaMan
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Commodore
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Reged: 2001/08/26
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Loc: Chicago, IL
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This thread has reminded me.... any chance of us getting a barf/puke smiley with the new software?
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This Reality Check™ is a registered trademark of AlphaMan, Inc. © 2003
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Orion Randy
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Rear Admiral
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Reged: 2001/07/25
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Loc: Albany, Georgia, USA
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I want the banging-the-head-on-the-keyboard smiley...and a smirk smiley...and a sobbing smiley. [edited because I misspelled sobbing] [This message has been edited by Orion Randy (edited September 04, 2002).]
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Orion Press - For Excellence in Star Trek Fanzines
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where'sSaavik?
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Rear Admiral
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Reged: 2000/07/03
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Loc: Springfield, Just Another State, USA
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quote:
Originally posted by where'sSaavik?:
Can we please just get a character limit?
Hi Christian. What do you think?
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Question Authority.
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