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RevdKathy
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Commodore
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Reged: 2000/10/09
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Hmmmm
#798481 - 2003/02/17 02:43 AM
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Not to go casting nasturtiums or diminuendos, but this thread is almost verbatim identical to one once posted by another poster asking for BONC fiction...  strange, ratty sort of smell round here.
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"It's difficult to control so many things in so little time"
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Lisa
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Trek Nation Administrator
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Reged: 2000/09/28
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He really isn't Hammer. I can ban him anyway though?
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Inspector Kashyk stole my sig...
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Huntingdon
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Vice Admiral
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That would be the logical choice. He is an obvious dual of somebody, it doesn't really matter of whom.
Whoever it is has hammer down perfectly, though.
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Member of the Mod Squad
We are the Admirals. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. 
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Worf412
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Commodore
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Reged: 2001/03/17
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Loc: Gulf Shores, AL
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Quote:
Posted by Lisa:
He really isn't Hammer. I can ban him anyway though?
Maybe not hammer, but a friend of his, or perhaps hammer going down to the local library?
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Proud to be a Charter Member of the TNZ Axis of Evil.
AOL-Worf4121, MSN-Worf4121@hotmail.com
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Neroon
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Vice Admiral
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Reged: 2000/10/31
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Loc: Somewhere beyond The Rim
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Quote:
Posted by Lisa:
He really isn't Hammer. I can ban him anyway though?
I woldn't miss him, to be sure. However, what would be your justification for banning him?
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"To absent friends. In memory...... still bright" - John Sheridan, 'Sleeping In Light'
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He obviously wants us to think he's Hammer, which is truly bizarre, if he's not.
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Spaceman Spiff: Moderator con Carne.
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JKTim
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Commodore
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Reged: 2001/05/28
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Loc: De Pere, WI / Lisle, IL
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^ Since when is anything regarding hammer or baba not bizarre?
-TWB
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Let's all smokee de crack. My crack.
"JKTim is the Frank Sinatra of moderators." - Spaceman Spiff
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Verteron
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Commodore
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Reged: 2001/05/27
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Loc: England
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Please do something. He is the most annoying poster ever to grace this board.
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He IMed me during my lunchbreak, asking me why he's banned.
Is this a new development?
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Spaceman Spiff: Moderator con Carne.
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Neroon
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Vice Admiral
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Maybe one day people will understand that not all of the staff is privvy to such information. He didn't contact me, but I have received other PM communiques as if I were an admin.
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"To absent friends. In memory...... still bright" - John Sheridan, 'Sleeping In Light'
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Lisa
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Trek Nation Administrator
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Yes, directly in response to this thread. If he asks, you can tell him its because of the hammer thing.
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Inspector Kashyk stole my sig...
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Verteron
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Commodore
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Reged: 2001/05/27
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He asked me and I told him to e-mail lisa@trektoday.com.
Always seems the most sensible solution!
*runs away*
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Neroon
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Vice Admiral
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Didn't you tell me you gave him her phone # as well?
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"To absent friends. In memory...... still bright" - John Sheridan, 'Sleeping In Light'
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JKTim
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Commodore
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I'll start writing your eulogy, Vert.
-TWB
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Let's all smokee de crack. My crack.
"JKTim is the Frank Sinatra of moderators." - Spaceman Spiff
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Demiurge
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Rear Admiral
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Trying to follow the logic here. He's getting Banned because he isn't Hammer's dual?
Because he must be someone else's dual? Do we have any proof of this at all?
Yes, he's annoying. So? What has he done that is against the rules, besides being annoying?
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'once more unto the breach dear friends'
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Sadly, I must agree with Demiurge.
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Spaceman Spiff: Moderator con Carne.
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JKTim
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Commodore
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Reged: 2001/05/28
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Loc: De Pere, WI / Lisle, IL
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As do I. He may be creepy, he may be odd, he may be plain-out annoying, but until there are conclusive grounds to ban him...prematurely doing so is pretty unfair.
-TWB
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Let's all smokee de crack. My crack.
"JKTim is the Frank Sinatra of moderators." - Spaceman Spiff
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Neroon
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Vice Admiral
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You realize we're driving Lisa over the edge with this, don't you? 
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"To absent friends. In memory...... still bright" - John Sheridan, 'Sleeping In Light'
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where'sSaavik?
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Vice Admiral
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Quote:
Verteron:
Please do something. He is the most annoying poster ever to grace this board.
Um, Red Quacker anyone?
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Question Authority.
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Neroon
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Vice Admiral
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Reged: 2000/10/31
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Loc: Somewhere beyond The Rim
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No thanks. I just ate.
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"To absent friends. In memory...... still bright" - John Sheridan, 'Sleeping In Light'
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JKTim
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Commodore
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Reged: 2001/05/28
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Loc: De Pere, WI / Lisle, IL
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I wasn't around for Red Quacker.
-TWB
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Let's all smokee de crack. My crack.
"JKTim is the Frank Sinatra of moderators." - Spaceman Spiff
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Lord Garth
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Rear Admiral
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Reged: 1999/08/10
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Loc: Brockton MA, USA
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Quote:
Posted by JKTim:
I wasn't around for Red Quacker.
-TWB
Enjoy!
February 20, 2001
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BlazerBoy
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Commodore
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Okay, this is just too weird......
Link
Look at the time index between the first two posts, and while your at it, look at their Locations below their names....
Either someone is trying to be very persuasive in their motives, or they are driving a dually truck around TrekBBS if you catch my drift.
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This user has been assimilated, proceed with caution.
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Demiurge
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Rear Admiral
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Quote:
Posted by Spaceman Spiff:
Sadly, I must agree with Demiurge.
LOL. Can I make that my sig?
Honestly, you know I'm the first one to call for stringing a troll up. I'd have no problem with bouncing him for any number of reasons, but there has to be a valid one according to the rules. I'm sure there are a couple for this guy - but that should be stated for the permaban, even if it is just us mods.
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'once more unto the breach dear friends'
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Lisa
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Trek Nation Administrator
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Okay. He's been banned a) Because you guys kept seriously hinting he should be and I do listen to what you say, b) the similarities between him and hammer are just ridiculous. As stated elsewhere, either he IS him, or he's trying to make us think he is, or he's trying to emulate him - all of which are dodgy to the first degree. And c) because he's annoying.
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Inspector Kashyk stole my sig...
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Neroon
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Vice Admiral
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OKay, now can you do something about hammer and his silliness with this Stalin crap. Case in point this thread in MA:
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB30&Number=806971&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1
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"To absent friends. In memory...... still bright" - John Sheridan, 'Sleeping In Light'
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Huntingdon
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Vice Admiral
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Reged: 2002/02/22
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Loc: Lancaster University, U.K.
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Quote:
Posted by Lisa:
Okay. He's been banned a) Because you guys kept seriously hinting he should be and I do listen to what you say, b) the similarities between him and hammer are just ridiculous. As stated elsewhere, either he IS him, or he's trying to make us think he is, or he's trying to emulate him - all of which are dodgy to the first degree. And c) because he's annoying.
I think it was the right decision. He simply knew far too much about hammer to be an ordinary poster. He even knew about the Pete persona and issues from way back. Simply had to be a dual.
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Member of the Mod Squad
We are the Admirals. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
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Neroon
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Vice Admiral
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Reged: 2000/10/31
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Well, the more I think about it, if hammer had been banned and baba was doing a dead on impression of him, then a ban on baba makes a certain amount of sense. Problem is.......hammer is still here and allowed to post.
Bottom line is there has been no concrete proof that the two are one and the same. Certainly nothing that cannot stand up against the claim that baba is merely imitating hammer.
I just think the rationale for banning baba is weak at best, if he ever calls us on it.
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"To absent friends. In memory...... still bright" - John Sheridan, 'Sleeping In Light'
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JKTim
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Commodore
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Reged: 2001/05/28
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Loc: De Pere, WI / Lisle, IL
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^ I don't think that will happen (him calling us on it), considering that it's pretty obvious baba is a dual of someone. Consider first his registration date (ages ago) and the fact that he laid dormant until the software switchover. That tripped my alarm right away.
However, I do agree that the grounds for banning him right now are dubious at best.
-TWB
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Let's all smokee de crack. My crack.
"JKTim is the Frank Sinatra of moderators." - Spaceman Spiff
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Neroon
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Vice Admiral
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Reged: 2000/10/31
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Regardless, I don't think this is all that big of a deal, despite my indications to the contrary. I tell you, it's times like these that make me feel sooooo embarrassed. After all, I am one of those constantly harping about people taking things too seriously on this board...... and here I am doing just that.
Heh.... put ourselves in Lisa's shoes and.... no , don't do that.....uhhhh in her place. Here she has doen what we've clamored for and we're still not happy.
The more I think about it, the more I approve of the ban. And the less I think we will have someone squawking about it somewhere.
Moving on to bigger and better things.......
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"To absent friends. In memory...... still bright" - John Sheridan, 'Sleeping In Light'
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Like banning Hammer.
...
Sorry, sorry, couldn't resist.
Hammer's actually been behaving (in that guise), until his recent return to Stalin worship.
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Spaceman Spiff: Moderator con Carne.
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Kass
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Commodore
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Reged: 2002/05/14
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Oi. That stupid thread. I so wanted to shut it down, but couldn't come up with a good reason other than hammer was being annoying. As long as the Hitler thread is open and the stalin thread doesn't become a pissing match, I can't justify flushing it down the toilet where it belongs.
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Only real men need apply. No, you don't qualify. Next.
"you're one sick, sadistic little bitch, kass"--da Woim
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Neroon
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Vice Admiral
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I disagree. The Hitler thread was a valiant attempt. The Stalin thread was "I want some attention, too" and was nothign more than hammer repeating the Hitler thread. He even says so in MA. Problem is you have let it go this far that it makes things tricky to justify shutting it down. Especially since you've commented in MA about that.
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"To absent friends. In memory...... still bright" - John Sheridan, 'Sleeping In Light'
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Kass
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Commodore
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Reged: 2002/05/14
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Either way, it is dying a slow death and I have made it pretty clear that if it goes somewhere I don't like, I am closing it without hesitation. I didn't paint myself into a corner.
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Only real men need apply. No, you don't qualify. Next.
"you're one sick, sadistic little bitch, kass"--da Woim
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Neroon
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Vice Admiral
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Reged: 2000/10/31
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Glad to hear it. Now maybe you can use some of that paint you saved for some clothes! 
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"To absent friends. In memory...... still bright" - John Sheridan, 'Sleeping In Light'
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where'sSaavik?
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Vice Admiral
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Loc: Springfield, Just Another State, USA
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Quote:
Posted by Kass:
Oi. That stupid thread. I so wanted to shut it down, but couldn't come up with a good reason other than hammer was being annoying.
You could tell him it's a topic better suited to TNZ and shut down the Misc version.
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Question Authority.
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Lisa
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Trek Nation Administrator
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^ Exactly. I'd have moved all of them to TNZ: this is the place for serious political debate.
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Inspector Kashyk stole my sig...
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Kass
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Commodore
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Except that I rather dislike the notion that you can't have a serious conversation in Miscellaneous. A lot of people prefer to carry on conversations in Misc. because they don't like the atmosphere in TNZ. I like TNZ, but I realize that I am also probably in the minority.
Quite honestly, I couldn't find a rule he really broke to justify closing it. If I could have, I would have.
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Only real men need apply. No, you don't qualify. Next.
"you're one sick, sadistic little bitch, kass"--da Woim
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Lisa
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Trek Nation Administrator
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^ But if we change the rules - as is looking likley - TNZ will end up the place for serious debate and political issues, misc the place to hang out and the lounges the place for games like one word threads and the like. If it;s political, and it looks liek getting charged, TNZ is where it should go. We'll need to start thinking of TNZ as a part of the BBS rather than something we might liek to sweep under the carpet.
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Inspector Kashyk stole my sig...
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Kass
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Commodore
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Reged: 2002/05/14
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I hardly want to sweep TNZ under the carpet, but I also know that there are a lot of people who are uncomfortable there. TNZ is the main reason I joined this BBS to begin with. Until the rules are changed, do we tell those people they are not welcome to have serious discussions? We can't operate under a set of rules or proposed rules that the posters don't know about. No one outside the BR knows TNZ will likely change.
I never thought "hanging out" excluded serious discussions. I often have serious discussions/debates while "hanging out" with friends in real life. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
The discussion of a historical figure does not necessarily equate to a political discussion. It is possible to discuss a historical figure (ie leadership qualities) without discussing politics. I think that much of this todo about this thread is solely because it is hammer's thread. Aside from him, no one raised a fuss about T'Baio's Hitler thread. Jethro even participated in that discussion.
Hammer can be an annoying little twit, but if anyone but him had started this thread, this debate wouldn't be happening.
I think your definition of "serious" discussion is a bit rigid. Do we tell people that they have to post questions about programming to TNZ? It is hardly contentious, but it is a serious topic. Do we prohibit memorial threads such as the ones that appeared after the shuttle disaster because they are serious?
I think contentious would be a better term to use. If a discussion is turning into an argument, I would be inclined to close it and redirect the posters to TNZ. If it is just a discussion that hasn't turned into a bar or joke thread, why move it and exclude any new/low post count posters from the discussion?
On an aside, I don't move threads to TNZ because I was told when I started that it wasn't done because people tended to use that as a way to get around the 50 to post/100 to start a thread rule. If it looks like the debate is getting out of hand, then I close the thread with the invitation to start a new one in TNZ.
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Only real men need apply. No, you don't qualify. Next.
"you're one sick, sadistic little bitch, kass"--da Woim
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where'sSaavik?
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Vice Admiral
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Reged: 2000/07/03
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Loc: Springfield, Just Another State, USA
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Rule change for TNZ is still being hammered out so we still don't transfer threads over there. But TNZ like topics in other forums can be shut down and the participants can be directed to restart the subject in TNZ.
Quote:
Kass:
The discussion of a historical figure does not necessarily equate to a political discussion. It is possible to discuss a historical figure (ie leadership qualities) without discussing politics.
The leadership capability of a historical figure is an inherently political question. Of course, as a political scientist, I see just about everything as political.
I empathize with the desire to have more serious discussions. However, there are serious discussions, and then there are Hitler threads. I think you'd have been ok shutting it down and directing people to TNZ. But thus far it seems like the participants are well behaved anyway.
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Question Authority.
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Kass
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Commodore
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Yeah yeah. I wa a foreign service major. I see everything ina global context. That is your perspective. History is not inherently political and vice versa.
And it would hardly be appropriate for me to go behind Jethro and close a thread he already deemed appropriate for Misc. And unless the posters wer behaving badly, I hardly see a reason to. It isn't like there is a limited number of topics you can discuss when "hanging out." Unless of course, we are appending the Misc. rules as well to read "Hang out with your friends unless you want to discuss...."
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Only real men need apply. No, you don't qualify. Next.
"you're one sick, sadistic little bitch, kass"--da Woim
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Huntingdon
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Vice Admiral
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Reged: 2002/02/22
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Loc: Lancaster University, U.K.
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Misc has always seemed more of an alternative atmosphere to TNZ, not necessarily more lightweight. If something turns controversial, then direct it to the more limited forum but it doesn't have to be absolute. I know a number of posters who'd contribute in misc, but never venture into TNZ.
When we get the new direction for TNZ sorted out, then it would probably be a good decision to transfer stuff at the start and we would be able to transfer stuff becuase it wouldn't be a topic to be "dumped", but one worthy of in depth discussion.
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Member of the Mod Squad
We are the Admirals. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
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