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Just to make sure we're on the same page [ENT]
#735665 - 2003/02/04 11:46 PM
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I'm confused. When did we stop cracking down in ENT? I must have missed that memo.
The behavior in the forum has improved over the last couple of months from my perspective, but I suppose that might just be my opinion. That's why the number of warnings I've been issuing has fallen. Maybe it's just me.
But if the basher/gusher thing is heating up again then we need to kick some ass. I don't particularly see any need to repost our announcement thread. The rules haven't changed. And I don't think our philosophy has either.
As for the thread in question, the very last thing we need to do is encourage people like Rucker to continue like that. Vomit or no vomit.
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Top41
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Well, from my point of view, it's declined dramatically. IMO, friendly advice isn't working at all. Did you read the Billy Merkshaw thread? Is that kind of teasing/goading really how we want newbies to encounter when first entering the forum? Especially sincere ones like this guy. It's like a junior high playground in that thread.
I appreciate that you and Bonz don't like to give warnings and like to moderate lightly (but vigilently). Believe me, I've got no love for giving out warnings. I'd rather things were rosy in there, but I don't think they are. When we get threads like this: The Moderators Here Aren't Doing Their Jobs-ENT, I think it's only fair to evaluate whether we've been doing enough.
It's more than just Storm. And he actually contributes positively a lot of the time, so I recinded the warning based on Neroon's imput and also Storm's own promise to behave better.
There are contentious people on both sides of the issue, though this time it seems like there are more bashers than gushers causing problems.
Several people have mentioned in that MA thread and elsewhere that they don't post in ENT anymore because it's unpleasant in there. Yeah, we're never going to make everyone happy and I know that, but it should at least be a fun place to post, and people should be able to post innocuous opinions about the show without being jumped on by the other side. I mean, sheesh, Republicans and Democrats treat each other better than ENT fans and ENT haters do!
Anyways, I'd love to discuss it with you guys and PreHensile, too, who I haven't really seen around much. And anyone else who contributes to the Enterprise forum and/or has an opinion on the situation.
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
Edited by Top41 (2003/02/05 11:27 AM)
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A relevant post from this thread:
Flaming Trek Stars
Quote:
posted by Metallo:
There's rough and tumble, and then there's outright defamation and assault (not battery as no physical contact). The flames fall under the latter part of the spectrum and are EVERYWHERE in Enterprise. It's like Enterprise fans are the ghetto of the board or something. It is caught out by people (like me) who visit other forums religiously also.
And before anyone overreacts, I am not asking for Mod intervention with the heavyhanded antics of the other day. I am asking for the people (and there's all of 5 of them) to be spoken to 1 on 1 privately and sorted out or removed. They add NOTHING. If this was a live and in person conference, courtroom or meeting THEY WOULD BE OUTTA HERE. Can't see why that can't apply here, with suitable warnings first. Otherwise, emboldened, they just go on and on, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. And notice, George42, Blooded and I (and others) are not Borg - we often agree, but not always. But we keep it civil. And when we argue with others we use idiomatic, sometimes blue, speech, but not incessantly over and over again. Even my now-infamous FUCK OFF post was a one-off. I don't have a sig offensive to others fans, like DS9-FAKE or something... And I don't stalk other users. Please act to eliminate the current level of flames. One back and forth exchange should be warned or shut down, ongoing bitchfests should be shut down 100% of the time.
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My monologue continues... 
Maybe we could have a chat sometime? Perhaps this weekend, since I know sometimes we're like ships in the night with our different schedules. 
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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^And goes on and on...
I unfortunately won't be around tonight as I just learned my parents' computer is in the shop for repairs. Hopefully it will be back this weekend. I'll let you all know ASAP. Maybe we can find some time this weekend or next for a chat, or one weekday perhaps.
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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where'sSaavik?
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Quote:
Posted by Top41:
It's more than just Storm. And he actually contributes positively a lot of the time, so I recinded the warning based on Neroon's imput and also Storm's own promise to behave better.
Rucker's a troll. He's been promising to behave better for months. He is fundamentally incapable of behaving.
I don't know if a chat is necessary. You've certainly got my blessing to go in and kick ass. I don't care for Metallo's suggestion (who doesn't particularly have alot of credibility on the issue) either. ENT's too big to handle individual posters in private. When people step out of the lines we nudge them back. If they don't want to go back then we stomp on them.
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^ It drives me nuts, the way you mince words and beat around the bush. 
Get to the point, man!
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I know you don't like Storm, wS?, but your opinion of him has led you to act rashly and got you into trouble before. You might want to consider stepping back and letting someone else handle him for a while.
He's more than a maageable poster if you just are upfront and reasonable with him. I'd bet money that if anyone can keep Storm behaving, Top41 can.
Besides, I thought the "crack down" in ENT ended with the disastrous blow up with MSR. If it is going to be reinstated, Neroon probably ought to brace for another round of MA Hell.
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Only real men need apply. No, you don't qualify. Next.
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Ok, I'm confused. I'm thinking reno's behavior in there percisely what we're trying to discourage. "Prig" or no "prig." Of course, everybody who uses Brittish slang should be warned on general principle.
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Quote:
Posted by Kass:
I know you don't like Storm, wS?, but your opinion of him has led you to act rashly and got you into trouble before.
When exactly was that?
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Kass:
Besides, I thought the "crack down" in ENT ended with the disastrous blow up with MSR.
On the contrary, Mutai's removal from the forum was a good thing. It's improved the forum dramatically.
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Kass:
If it is going to be reinstated ...
It was never de-instated.
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Quote:
Posted by where'sSaavik?:
Of course, everybody who uses Brittish slang should be warned on general principle.
You havin' a larf, wazzock?
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Member of the Mod Squad
We are the Admirals. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. 
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When he was banned for telling you there was porn in a thread on the board. You thought he was bragging about posting it.
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Only real men need apply. No, you don't qualify. Next.
"you're one sick, sadistic little bitch, kass"--da Woim
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^ Ah, yes. That was my bad. But easily corrected. 
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Well, if there is a problem you have witha particular poster, it is often a good idea to let someone more objective handle them. There are two posters who shall remain nameless who tap dance all over the one pooor little nerve I have left and I am usually inclined to play soccer with their heads rather than give them the benefit of the doubt. You seem to have that problem with Storm. I just refer any questionable post to another mod and let them make the call.
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Only real men need apply. No, you don't qualify. Next.
"you're one sick, sadistic little bitch, kass"--da Woim
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There are actually a couple of dozen posters I loath. Love to ban all of them. Oooooooooo it would feel so good.
But I do my best to stay objective. Even defending their rights when I'd prefer not to. Arguing the case for people like reno or Dennis is not fun for me, but part of my job.
Rucker is a particular kind of troll. He's very appealing. He'll make nice with people in power or people he feels are respected. But he'll also treat everyone he feels superior to like they're unworthy to read his witty remarks. Every so often he'll sound off in a completely childish and self centered manner. Afterwards he'll make nice and say he got carried away or that he was drunk or stupid or something. It circles around and around. That's what I get from Rucker. It'd be nice if I could just get rid of him, but I can't. Rules.
And just to clarify, this isn't about Rucker. It's about ENT in general. Let's not get too far off in a tangent.
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Quote:
Posted by where'sSaavik?:
Ok, I'm confused. I'm thinking reno's behavior in there percisely what we're trying to discourage. "Prig" or no "prig." Of course, everybody who uses Brittish slang should be warned on general principle.
And I'm confused, too. And tired of seeing my damn name in MA.
I guess I don't think we're on the same page at all, any of us. And I think the posters in the forum are confused, too. How can I warn someone for calling someone else a "killjoy" when you don't warn Stewey for his B&B threat (jest or not, it was inappropriate)? How could I warn reno for killjoy and not Borgminister for his comment that got reno to say it (the expert snipe)?
I'll be honest--I miss Mutai. Yes, he was a hardass and maybe warned too often, but I feel like we all communicated better when he was around. And he added a balance to the forum that isn't there now.
We're confusing people with our policy in the forum, because it's not as strict as it was before Mutai left. We're not cracking down anymore. We've got Mallory, a conscientious poster, bringing up an obvious conundrum in MA, and I feel like I can't comment on it because I don't even know what to say!
I want a chat because I don't think we're working well as a team right now. I know we're not going to agree on everything, but right now I'm confused as all hell. saavik, you said you're confused. The people who are posting in the forum are confused. If there's this much confusion, doesn't that indicate that indeed there is something to discuss?
I think it would be best if the four of us, along with Lisa and Neroon, could have a chat--about repeat "troll comments," about specific troublemakers, about what's warnable and what's not (because I don't think we're on the same page there, either). If we can't all make a chat, then maybe we can hash it out in here. I just honestly feel we need to talk, because we seem to all have different approaches to the problem.
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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Guys, guys! I got it! Two words that will make everything better!
Time-share...
-TWB
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Let's all smokee de crack. My crack.
"JKTim is the Frank Sinatra of moderators." - Spaceman Spiff
Edited by JKTim (2003/02/06 12:55 PM)
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Just a note--Storm apologized to Billy on his own in the intro thread. That goes far in my book--there's not a lot of apologizing that goes on around here. Since his name has come up often in this thread, I thought I'd mention that here.
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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Quote:
Posted by Top41:
Just a note--Storm apologized to Billy on his own in the intro thread. That goes far in my book--there's not a lot of apologizing that goes on around here. Since his name has come up often in this thread, I thought I'd mention that here.
Which is his pattern. He'll mouth off again within the week.
It sounds like a different forum that you're moderating Top. It's much better behaved than it was last fall. If you'd like to chat, that's fine. I'm on the board like six hours every night.
And of course, T'Bonz and PreHensile, your opinions would be great to hear.
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Quote:
Posted by Top41:
And tired of seeing my damn name in MA.
You think you're getting tired of seeing it.......
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"To absent friends. In memory...... still bright" - John Sheridan, 'Sleeping In Light'
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Quote:
Posted by where'sSaavik?:
It sounds like a different forum that you're moderating Top. It's much better behaved than it was last fall. Quote:
OK, but then how do you explain the MA/QSF threads asking us about our policy? Or the fact that we all seem to have different standards for what we deem warnable?
Quote:
If you'd like to chat, that's fine. I'm on the board like six hours every night.
I'll be staying at my parents' house this weekend, so I'll try to catch you on AIM. But I do think it would be helpful to have the group chat.
Quote:
And of course, T'Bonz and PreHensile, your opinions would be great to hear.
Seconded.
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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Y'know I'm thinking more that we do need to get together. The 4 of us haven't ever done that come to think of it and it seems more and more like we need to.
There are good threads in the forum like the swinger thread and we need to make sure that people know not lose their cool in them and spoil important issues about the show. We have to get the members to behave so we won't have to close them like that.
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^Agreed. I was very disappointed that I had to close that thread, especially after cautioning people to stay polite and on topic. But it just got waaaay out of control.
Sorry I haven't been around this weekend to chat--RL things kind of took over. I could possibly make it to a chat one night this week, though Tuesday, Friday, and Saturday nights are out. Maybe Sunday (the 16th) during the day/afternoon?
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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Yet another MA thread:
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB30&Number=754823&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1
We should probably discuss this sooner rather than later.
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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Quote:
Posted by JKTim:
Guys, guys! I got it! Two words that will make everything better!
Time-share...
Sir, how dare you quote Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze without giving me proper warning!
And I'll have a distinct opinion in writing once I'm appropriately caught up, but Top and I are already agreeing on several things, one primarily being a chat between all of us (Ent, Lisa and Neroon). She's right when she says we stopped cracking down when Mutai kicked the BBS bucket, and things spiraled slowly from there.
I'll post again tonight when I definitely know what I want to say, though.
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THAT FRELLING PLANT!
Even the Plant doesn't need this level of fertilizer.
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Quote:
Posted by PreHensile:
Sir, how dare you quote Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze without giving me proper warning!
Very good, weed-boy. Wasn't sure if anyone would get that.
-TWB
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Let's all smokee de crack. My crack.
"JKTim is the Frank Sinatra of moderators." - Spaceman Spiff
Edited by JKTim (2003/02/09 05:05 PM)
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Does anyone else have some suggestions for a chat time?
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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Like I've always said I'm available evenings, Sunday afternoons and Mondays.
And until we can meet I would suggest we keep the pressure up. Hit them hard and don't let up. Just like always.
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Sunday afternoon would also be good for me. Evenings vary, depending on carpool duties.
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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Whatever you decide to do, let me know ahead of time. I will need to understand your approach in preparation for the next time someone complains in MA about the ENT forum and how it is moderated.
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"To absent friends. In memory...... still bright" - John Sheridan, 'Sleeping In Light'
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As ever, before 9 30 GMT is best for me if you want me actually articulate and not falling asleep on my keyboard by the end of it. Just tell me when.
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How about Sunday at 8 or 9pm GMT (which, if I'm doing my math correctly, is 2pm or 3pm Central/3pm or 4pm Eastern time)? DOes that work for everyone?
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Quote:
Posted by Neroon:
Whatever you decide to do, let me know ahead of time. I will need to understand your approach in preparation for the next time someone complains in MA about the ENT forum and how it is moderated.
BTW, Neroon, if you can make the chat that would be great. I know you have things going on this weekend, though, so if not, don't worry--we'll fill you in on all of the gory details.
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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4pm EST on Sunday would work for me.
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THAT FRELLING PLANT!
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Quote:
Posted by PreHensile:
4pm EST on Sunday would work for me.
That's what works best for me, too. Is that ok with everyone else?
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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Thanks for the invite Top41. I hate to turn down a Slayer, but we will be out of town until early evening.
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"To absent friends. In memory...... still bright" - John Sheridan, 'Sleeping In Light'
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Quote:
Posted by Neroon:
Thanks for the invite Top41. I hate to turn down a Slayer, but we will be out of town until early evening.
Don't worry, I'm not a scary Slayer. Well, at least not half of the time. We'll let you know all the gritty details from the chat! Hope you have a nice trip this weekend.
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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4pm EST/3pm CST it is. We'll plan on that.
Thanks.
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Good for me too.
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Beware Romulans bearing gifts - It's the logical thing to do!
Here's to pon farr, when Vulcans go too far.
Live Long and Suffer! - Ancient Romulan Curse
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Cool. Is there someone who would be willing to set up the chatroom? I have no idea how to do it, or I would offer to.
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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Worry not, I'll take care of it if you hassle me on ICQ a little before it's due to start.
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Quote:
Posted by Lisa:
Worry not, I'll take care of it if you hassle me on ICQ a little before it's due to start.
Thanks! I don't have ICQ at my parents' house, but I do have AIM there. Do you have an AIM screenname? If not, I'll just drop you an e-mail a few minutes before it's supposed to start.
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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Lis is ICQ only and stubborn. ICQ2Go or email?
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Inspector Kashyk stole my sig...
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Top41
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Commodore
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Reged: 2001/12/06
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Quote:
Posted by Lisa:
Lis is ICQ only and stubborn. ICQ2Go or email?
I'll send an e-mail--my parents are strict about what's downloaded onto their computer. It's a wonder my sister managed to sneak on AOL.
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"Very occasionally, if you really pay attention, life doesn't suck." --Joss Whedon
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Lisa
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Trek Nation Administrator
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Reged: 2000/09/28
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ICQ2Go is browser based - no downloads. But email works.
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Inspector Kashyk stole my sig...
Post Extras:
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Top41
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Commodore
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Reged: 2001/12/06
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