Attending:
Master Sandman
Jarl Thorrn
Master Thadron
Jarl Keeper - Moderator
Master Zoran
Master Bretval
Master Tanthios
Master Dak
Master Heretic
Master Venator
Master Austin
Master Kuurus
Master Mintar
Master Quinn
Master Frederick
mistress flicka{Keeper}-GS fg
ayrie{Thadron}
rykl{Ramses}
natasha{Zoran}
moira{Venator}
eudokia{T§}
carina{Heretic}
kaly{Dak}
ariella
kianna
ruby{Randolph}~t - scribe
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 19:38:29 pm CST
A goodly crowd today.
We shall start proceedings;
If anyone has a topic, please PM Me.
Keep idle chatter to a minimum and greetings in Pm for the sake of the scribe's sanity, especially with this many in the room.
So; any topics?
ruby~{Randolph}~t 19:40:35 pm CST
poises writing stick to rence parchment
Zoran Merchant 19:39:43 pm CST
Keeper
I would like to say I will be branding my natasha after forum tonight
And all are invited
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 19:40:57 pm CST
Excellent Zoran.
Not a problem.
Zoran Merchant 19:42:05 pm CST
Thank you Keeper
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 19:44:59 pm CST
I have a topic:
Similar to a recent one, but there are so many here, worth doing again.
Honour ~ noun ~
personal integrity; allegiance to moral principles
Honour~verb~
:to hold in respect or esteem
:to keep (one's promise)
[Oxford English Dictionary]
"The 97th Aphorism in the Codes I was taught," I said, "is in the form of a riddle: "What is invisible but more beautiful than diamonds?" "And the answer?" inquired Labenius. "That which is silent but deafens thunder." The men regarded one another. "And what is that?" asked Labenius. "The same," said I, "as that which depresses no scale but is weightier than gold." "And what is that?" asked Labenius. "Honor," I said."
Page 304-305 - Vagabonds of Gor
"You risked so much for a mere point of honor?" she asked. "There are no mere points of honor," I told her."
Page 63 - Vagabonds of Gor
"Honor is important to Goreans, in a way that those of Earth might find it hard to understand;"
Page 42 - Beasts of Gor
Having honor would mean having a certain Integrity, Dignity, and Good reputation.
Showing Respect to others and Being faithful - Having earned the trust of others.
Does being Gorean automatically mean that you are honourable?
Do slaves display honour?
Do slaves act honourably as a reflection of their Master
Tanthio§~~~~*Owner of eudokia*~ 19:45:36 pm CST
*pulls her to My lap*
Shhh now with greetings girl, forum has started.
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 19:47:26 pm CST
The answer to the first question is in part answered by the books, there were some dishonourable Goreans in the books generally they were treated with the disdain they deserved.
So it is not automatic, but definitely desired.
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 19:48:52 pm CST
stroking the hair of rykl and flicka, finding very relaxing and therapeutic.
ruby~{Randolph}~t 19:49:40 pm CST
Jarl Keeper
some Free found dishonorable in the books...were cast out of the City..with no salt...Thieves and such
however in Port Kar Thieves are welcome..making our City unique
natasha{Zoran} 19:49:59 pm CST
i think honor does not depend on either gender or status, it is something ingrained, so yes, slaves can have honor, same as there will be some Masters that dont.
it is basically human nature
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 19:51:04 pm CST
So ruby, honour has different meaning in different societies within Gor, but are there some aspects of Gorean honour that are universal?
Bretval {meral}: Merchant 19:51:18 pm CST
To act is to risk dishonour, I would say... to act without thought is almost certain to risk dishonor
flicka~ slave of Keeper. ~GS~ fg. 19:51:26 pm CST
If one takes the dictionary meaning of the word ie:
Honour ~ noun ~
personal integrity; allegiance to moral principles
then yes a slave does have honour. flicka has allegiance to the moral principles of her collar. So too personal integrity. When she begged her Jarl's collar she made certain promises, these she has upheld.
ruby~{Randolph}~t 19:52:06 pm CST
imho
Honor is earned..reflecting on natashas wisdom
ayrie{Thadron} 19:52:52 pm CST
~smiles, agreeing with mistress flicka
Tanthio§~~~~*Owner of eudokia*~ 19:53:00 pm CST
I don't believe slaves have honour but I believe a slave can reflect her Masters Honour in her actions indeed.
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 19:53:40 pm CST
~Nodding to natasha.~
I have found that to be the case in the past.
For Me, one of the most important parts of honour is "personal integrity".
You can on the surface be very Gorean, slave or Master, yet lack integrity.
flicka~ slave of Keeper. ~GS~ fg. 19:54:35 pm CST
As this is forum and slaves may speak openly, with respect, then flicka would say that for a Master honour hinges on the moral parametres of His caste, therefor if a Master is in the caste of Thieves, thieving is honourable.
A thought, is there a higher honour than that given to a Master's caste? flicka does not know.
rykl.{Ramses} :Rr: Dylan 19:54:39 pm CST
ry would like to think she brings honour to her Master. Although it has been so long since He left, she has tried to act in a fashion that He would expect of her.
Abide by His wishes even when He is not here to watch her.
ruby~{Randolph}~t 19:55:37 pm CST
absolutely agrees Master Tanthios
a slave is a reflection of her Master..her demeanor and such
{carina}AT ♡~Hell bound with Heretic~♡ 19:57:15 pm CST
~listens quietly~
flicka~ slave of Keeper. ~GS~ fg. 19:57:21 pm CST
Master Tanthio§ flicka would have agreed with You at an earlier time, but in reading the exact definition of honour, flicka would have to say that being a slave does not preclude acting honourably within the confines of her slavery.
Kuurus Assassin 19:57:23 pm CST
ruby and Tanthios are 100% correct
natasha{Zoran} 19:57:46 pm CST
if a Master has no honor, does that mean that his slave have none either?
girl doesnt think so.
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 19:58:09 pm CST
You have rykl.
~Grinning~
When He returns I will let Him know you have.
A good point though, often, honour is acting as you should even when you are possibly the only one who knows that.
(Besides the Priest Kings and dare I say it Odin All-Father!)
Kuurus Assassin 19:58:39 pm CST
little natasha
flicka~ slave of Keeper. ~GS~ fg. 19:59:00 pm CST
The distinction is that when a Master acts dishonourably He disrespects His caste and His home, when a slave acts thusly she disrespects her Owner.
ruby~{Randolph}~t 19:59:42 pm CST
well stated mistress flicka
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:00:18 pm CST
~Turning to natasha and smiling~
What a good question?
That is something I have never considered!
~Thinking on it~
ayrie{Thadron} 20:02:56 pm CST
If she may....
Although you are only a slave your master is permitting you to serve him," I said.
"This is a great honor." She seemed startled. Then it became clear to her that this was, for her, a slave, an honor.
Slave Girl of Gor Book 11 Page 406
"It is a great honor for me, Master," she said, "that one such as you should select Beverly to serve you."
Rogue of Gor Book 15 Page 200
What a precious and glorious honor, what a coveted privilege, for a slave, to be permitted to serve her master!
Prize of Gor Book 27 Page 228
"Thank you," he said.
"You do not thank her," I informed him. "It is a great honor and privilege for a slave to be permitted to serve her master. Too, it is what she is for."
Swordsmen of Gor Book 29 Page 61
natasha{Zoran} 20:03:06 pm CST
turning her eyes to Master Kuurus
she cannot reflect honor where there is none to be found, yet she can honor her collar.
Kuurus Assassin 20:03:31 pm CST
that is true natasha
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:03:54 pm CST
If a slave acts with personal integrity and her Master less so, well logically, yes, she would have more honour.
~Nodding to natasha.~
An idea that I have never considered, but possible
flicka~ slave of Keeper. ~GS~ fg. 20:04:18 pm CST
tasha that is a conundrum. If the thought is that a slave merely reflects the honour of her Master, then naturally if He has no honour then neither does she.
Conversely if it is thought that a slave can act honourably within the parametres of being a slave, then she could have honour even with a dishonourable Master.
Flicka has a head hurtie now.
ayrie{Thadron} 20:04:28 pm CST
be it a noun or a verb, what she feels in serving her Master and the Free is an honor, each task completed with honor.
That's what her heart says.
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:05:20 pm CST
~Still absent-mindlessly stroke the hair of the two slaves and listening.~
ruby~{Randolph}~t 20:06:00 pm CST
smiling
to the true slave hearts in attendance
flicka~ slave of Keeper. ~GS~ fg. 20:06:28 pm CST
~refraining from ducking away from the heavy handed, preoccupied Jarl's hand.~
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:06:41 pm CST
~Nodding~
True, very true ayrie.
Master or slave, honour is not a performance, it is from the heart as you say.
Bretval {meral}: Merchant 20:07:00 pm CST
I agree natasha... even a slave learns what is right and wrong ... if she acts with honour and integrity the actions of her Master cannot be seen to reflect on her
eudokia{T§} 20:07:07 pm CST
*listens quietly as she leans into Master*
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:07:46 pm CST
~Chuckling~
flicka, you know I cannot multi-task!
rykl; How is your head? All stroked out?
~Chuckling~
Tanthio§~~~~*Owner of eudokia*~ 20:08:05 pm CST
ayrie
The tasks you speak of, serving, you learned all that in slave class and yes it's an honour to serve which is a whole different meaning then topic.
flicka~ slave of Keeper. ~GS~ fg. 20:08:26 pm CST
So Master Bretval, a slave can, in Your mind have honour, irregardless of the honour or lack thereof of her Master.
~whispers~ flicka agrees with You.
Mintar 20:08:45 pm CST
~settles in and just listens to the talk about honor~
ayrie{Thadron} 20:09:36 pm CST
Apologies Master Tanthios, but she did not learn her heart in a class.
rykl.{Ramses} :Rr: Dylan 20:09:45 pm CST
Jarl
This girls head is only stroked out as You put it when Jarl deems it so
-smiles at her sis ayrie and reaffirms why this girl loves her so-
Ayrie, your heart is beautiful
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:09:48 pm CST
As do I Bretval
Frederick 20:10:02 pm CST
-listens with interest-
ayrie{Thadron} 20:10:14 pm CST
~whispers a thank you to ry
Bretval {meral}: Merchant 20:10:34 pm CST
in My not so humble opinion, flicka
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:11:34 pm CST
~As I stroke her hair, I nod and find Myself agreeing with rykl.~
You heart is pure ayrie, and Thadron is a lucky Man!
flicka~ slave of Keeper. ~GS~ fg. 20:12:12 pm CST
~smiles in agreement with ayrie~ slave class can teach the "how to" it cannot teach they "why for". The "why for" comes from within the slave, her heart her soul
Heretic : A New Kind of Hate 20:12:13 pm CST
*slips thru the entry way, moving to the right. Back to wall, slides down into a familiar spot. Right knee bent, right a right ankle upon it as I settle in to listen*
ayrie{Thadron} 20:12:13 pm CST
Thank You Jarl Keeper, one adores her Master in all ways
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:12:29 pm CST
~Chuckling~
Gorean Master / Humble = Oxymoron!
You are so right Bretval!
natasha{Zoran} 20:12:50 pm CST
nods in agreement with both mistress and ayrie
moira {Venator} 20:13:18 pm CST
Listens quietly
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:13:20 pm CST
As always, the why question is the important one, the heart of the matter.
ruby~{Randolph}~t 20:13:25 pm CST
agrees ayrie
a true slave heart, it not learned...it is felt in ones soul..ingrained in her being
ruby~{Randolph}~t 20:14:22 pm CST
same thoughts..mistress flicka
ayrie{Thadron} 20:14:47 pm CST
one loves slave class and her mistress and sisters dearly. But feels her servitude is a something she had, a small coal perhaps , that Master ignited.
flicka~ slave of Keeper. ~GS~ fg. 20:14:47 pm CST
~smiles at ruby~ aye.
Tanthio§~~~~*Owner of eudokia*~ 20:16:17 pm CST
I never said one would learn their heart in class, one may have the heart/desire to serve but not know how.
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:16:25 pm CST
You could argue ruby that Masters and honour is similar: true honour, it is not learned...it is felt in ones soul..ingrained in His being
ruby~{Randolph}~t 20:17:12 pm CST
Jarl Keeper
true indeed
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:17:51 pm CST
~Nodding to Tanthios~
Agreed, that is true
♥~*~ariella~*~♥ 20:20:30 pm CST
*slips back in on silent feet with a quiet nod to Aall as she settles
Dak 20:21:05 pm CST
entering the forum My slut following moving to some furs sitting'
kaly{Dak} 20:21:45 pm CST
*Heels her Master with a smile to those present*
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:22:47 pm CST
Meaning no disrespect to those that have just arrived.
But does anyone have anything to add to the topic of honour?
The reason I esquire is that We have an important event in the Tavern soon.
So...
any more comments?
flicka~ slave of Keeper. ~GS~ fg. 20:23:41 pm CST
No more from flicka Jarl.
ruby~{Randolph}~t 20:24:57 pm CST
Jarl Keeper
nothing more from this lowly slut
Heretic : A New Kind of Hate 20:25:25 pm CST
*wave of right hand at the Captain, having nothing to add*
Tanthio§~~~~*Owner of eudokia*~ 20:25:50 pm CST
Done as well
Jarl Thorrn, Captain & Slavemaster 20:26:29 pm CST
Tal Brother
I have a topic i would post here tonight as there are so many people in.-
It is about slave classes, the topic is for Masters and slaves.
Bretval {meral}: Merchant 20:27:09 pm CST
I have nothing to add, Captain
ayrie{Thadron} 20:27:10 pm CST
~listens intently to Jarl Thorrn
ruby~{Randolph}~t 20:27:12 pm CST
dark eyes lift to Jarl Thorrn
Dak 20:28:17 pm CST
Listening
moira {Venator} 20:28:17 pm CST
Dark eyes lift to Jarl Thorrn
kianna~forever~lost~ 20:28:40 pm CST
listens closely to JArl Thorrn
{carina}AT ♡~Hell bound with Heretic~♡ 20:28:48 pm CST
~listens quietly to the Jarl~
Jarl Thorrn, Captain & Slavemaster 20:28:50 pm CST
The Slavemaster wishes to bring to your attention in here what He already said in Euroforum:
Slave Classes are mandatory for tavern slaves and well recommended for privately owned slave and even guest slaves.
Recommended and all are welcome.
Of cause rt chores always come first and so the slaves come in when they can and are able and they may leave when they need to - just do the usual slave asking if they are releases and that doesn´t get refused - and if rt is urgent they may run immediately.
This implies definitely that it is the task of the slaves to watch their chores and their time schedule.
It is NOT the chore of the Slavemaster to do so and "sent" a slave away to her chores or to her Master´s feet.
Masters - tell this your slaves, in time. You and she are responsible and not a whisper to the Slavemaster, sometimes polite and sometimes even harsh and pressing.
It is YOUR slave, not mine.
Why do i tell this, because it happened a few times now to harass the Slavemaster with such matters.
Thank You for listening and cooperating *S*
natasha{Zoran} 20:29:06 pm CST
eyes lifting to the Jarl, pressing closer to her Master
Zoran Merchant 20:31:21 pm CST
Nods
kaly{Dak} 20:32:06 pm CST
*Settles to the furs next to her Master, listening to the Slave Master as He speaks*
Thadron-Captain of GS 20:32:10 pm CST
Takes my seat on the dais ... motioning ayrie to my feet
Jarl Thorrn, Captain & Slavemaster 20:32:46 pm CST
That was My topüic, letter by letter the same as in Euroforum **S
Tanthio§~~~~*Owner of eudokia*~ 20:33:01 pm CST
Why should A/any contact You about Their slave business Brother.
The Master should be able to tend to it, One would hope.
Heretic : A New Kind of Hate 20:33:15 pm CST
Good deal *in response to Captain Thorrn*
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:33:42 pm CST
~Nodding~
Dak 20:34:04 pm CST
no problem for this One!
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:34:23 pm CST
walking in and sitting down
Jarl Thorrn, Captain & Slavemaster 20:35:12 pm CST
Tanthio§, that is My thinking too but some Masters do and whispers Me during slave class to send Their slave to Them - some quite polite and some steamy with anger because the slave is late and they think I kept them in.
My posting was to clarify this what should be clear anyways.
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:35:18 pm CST
Tal and welcome to My Brothers.
I now declare the Forum closed.
I would like to invite all that are here to the Tavern to witness Zoran branding His slave natasha.
Tanthio§~~~~*Owner of eudokia*~ 20:36:51 pm CST
Nods to Thorrn.
Austin 20:37:19 pm CST
Thank you Keeper for leading a most informative forum
flicka thank you for scribing
Thadron-Captain of GS 20:37:19 pm CST
Looking down the scroll~... I support Thorrn in this and greatly respect him in the role of Slave Master, I hope we all do..
Venator 20:38:05 pm CST
Thank you for leading Keeper and flicka for scribing.
Understood
ruby~{Randolph}~t 20:38:20 pm CST
thank You Jarl Keeper for leading an insightful Forum
rykl.{Ramses} :Rr: Dylan 20:38:39 pm CST
Thank you Jarl for leading
And ruby for scribing
Mintar 20:38:41 pm CST
~a nods to the Captains as the forum is closed, the hefty Merchant rises~
Your hospitality is once again appreciated.
flicka~ slave of Keeper. ~GS~ fg. 20:38:49 pm CST
~calling a thank you to ruby for scribing as she is carted to the Tavern for a branding~.... Not her's thank Odin.
Jarl Keeper ~ Captain ~ Scholar 20:38:55 pm CST
Oh, how remiss of Me.
Thank you ruby for scribing!
Bretval {meral}: Merchant 20:39:07 pm CST
Thank you for leading, Keeper and thanks to the scribe
Venator 20:39:18 pm CST
Ah, thank you ruby for scribing, My apologies
ruby~{Randolph}~t 20:39:46 pm CST
a pleasure to serve my Jarls Home
rolls up the scribe swiftly...heads briskly for her Masters Holdings
