FORUM NOTES - JANUARY 6TH, 2013
Dak 19:35:47 pm CST
do any have topics for tonight, if so, whisper to Me, and I will open the forum
Dak 19:47:40 pm CST
Domestic servant or slave?
Quotes For This Week
"The wife of Earth is, from the Gorean point of view, much overworked. When the husband returns home she is often, actually, engaged in labors. How can she greet him properly? At night, so numerous and excessive have been her labors, she is often exhausted. That would be preposterous from the Gorean point of view. The Gorean master does not buy a girl with the primary objective of obtaining a domestic servant but with the intention of acquiring a marvelous slave. He wants the girl to become a wonder to him. He is quite cheerful about the sacrifice of domestic servitude in order to obtain what is far more important to him. When he returns to his compartments he does not want to find a worn chore woman there but a lovely slave, fresh, vital, eager and fully alive, kneeling before him, waiting to be commanded." - BEASTS OF GOR, Pg. 248-249
Gorean culture tends to view the body, its development, its appetites and needs, with congeniality. We do not grow excited about the growth of trees, and Goreans do not grow excited about the growth of people. In some respects the Goreans are, perhaps, cruel. Yet they have never seen fit, through lies, to inflict suffering on children. They seem generally to me to be fond of children. Perhaps that is why they seldom hurt them. Even slave children, incidentally, are seldom abused or treated poorly, and are given much freedom, until they reach their young adulthood. It is then, of course, that they are taught that they are slaves. Men come, and the young male is tied and taken to the market. If the young slave is a female she may or may not be sent to a market. Many young slave maidens are raised almost as daughters in a home. It is often a startling and frightening day for such a girl when, one morning, she finds herself suddenly, unexpectedly, put in a collar and whipped, and made to begin to pay the price of her now-blossomed slave beauty. - Beasts of Gor, page 155
In the Gorean streets I attracted little attention. It is not that unusual, in such streets, for a man to carry a naked slave, bound and hooded, over his shoulder. To be sure, such girls are often tied in a slave sack. The children that we passed in the streets, playing at marbles or stone toss, scarcely glanced up. Two children, however, one boy and one girl, did run and strike the slave. She started, and squirmed, on my shoulder under the blows. I did not admonish the children. First, it was nothing to me that they had struck her, for she was a slave. Secondly, they were free persons, and free persons on Gor may do much what they please. It is slaves who must be careful of their behavior, lest free persons find it displeasing. The boy who had struck her, I believe, had been in a fit of ill temper. I think he had just lost at stone toss.
The girl, on the other hand, I think, had had far different motivations. She had not been involved in the game, but had only been watching it. Yet she had struck the slave by far the cruelest blow. Already she had learned, as a free woman, that female slaves are to be despised and beaten. The hatred of the free woman on Gor for the female slave is an interesting phenomenon. There are probably many reasons for this.
Among them, however, would seem to be a jealousy of the female slave's desirability and beauty, a resentment of the interest of free men in imbonded women, and an envy of the slave girl's psychological and biological fulfillments, and emotional freedom and joy. Something of the same hatred and contempt tends to be felt by masculine women on Earth towards feminine women. Perhaps they hate what they are not, and perhaps cannot be. The Gorean slave girl, incidentally, can be terrorized by the mere thought that she might be sold to a free woman. I glanced at the girl who had struck the slave. She was comely. I wondered if she might one day fall slave. If so, she, too, in her turn, would surely learn to fear free women. - Guardsman of Gor, page 197
(cont)
Dak 19:49:49 pm CST
Questions
1)Why do Earth men and women lose sight of one another? Is it that their priorities are different? Is it that an Earth female does not desire as much as a Gorean woman to please her man (so to speak?)
2)Did the free women care for the children? Did the free women have slaves attending to themselves and/or their children?
3)Although slaves didn't have castes, they did have different duties. Are them some more "prestigious" than others; more important than others; more vital to the free?
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:51:53 pm CST
I have read some of the quotes ~chuckles~
~goes to read some more~
Ramses 19:55:00 pm CST
damn, there is a lot going on in those quotes
hulya{GS} 19:56:05 pm CST
Master, girl has read a book that deals with question 1, but its religion based
Dak 19:56:06 pm CST
aye, it is a comparison between what we see in Gor as compared with our RT, *smiles*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:58:49 pm CST
I was confused with the context of the first question.... what is the assumption that on Earth men and women have lost sight of one another?... maybe some can give me examples in their rt and that can help better relate to this question...
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:59:34 pm CST
hulya... ~nods~ share your insight whatever the source it doesn't matter
Dak 19:59:37 pm CST
personally, I feel it is sad what has happened to the Male Female relationship in our present society
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 19:59:45 pm CST
My opinion on 1) is that some Earth Women are as interested in pleasing a man as a Gorean woman.,, as for the others the world we live in requires much of us,, we are all busy doing something,, and sometimes get so busy doing things-- that the taking care of relationship,, doesnt get the time it deserves
Lita, Physician 20:00:20 pm CST
I think perhaps it refers to the fact that men and women seem no longer to make it their primary focus to please each other. They have very different agendas.
Ramses 20:00:43 pm CST
Gorean society is, generally speaking, much simpler
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:00:47 pm CST
snow's Master has trained her, in no uncertain terms, that there are no important slaves and she'd best not get above herself...a slave could find herself a kettle and mat girl
hulya{GS} 20:04:13 pm CST
Well Master, how it was explained in the book is that men are no longer men and women are no longer women, church, the public, schools and jobs have taken these genders and have screwed up their roles and that at a young age everyone is attacked spiritually at their strengths
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:04:31 pm CST
An interesting point to add. That quote is about four decades old. The relationship between Men and women has changed just a 'tad' in forty years so in many Western relationships the dynamic is different. having said that in a lot of relationships the willingness to please is paramount.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:06:19 pm CST
for flicka, she has always striven to be pleasing to Men, in Earthern society she guesses she would be called a flirt. A girl has never lost sight of men ~chuckling~ flicka sees all women as rivals and wants to scratch their eyes out (joke).
In her relationships, she wishes to cherished and loved, the way of doing this for flicka is to be cherishing and loving to a girl's Master. ~looks up at Jarl Keeper~ And so for flicka question 1 is a moot point.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:07:11 pm CST
good insight.... not only are we busy, but the media bombards us with what seems important... and we lose sight of the priorities of "relating"
but what of Master to slave? I hear double talk from the author of the books... 1)a slave is nothing and of no consequence... and 2) he looks at a slave to "be a wonder to him" how do you put those two diverse thoughts together
Ramses 20:07:36 pm CST
yours is a relationship dynamic rarely attained on earth, flicka
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:07:39 pm CST
~Nodding at Sandman's comment about 'time-poor' Western society.~
Dak 20:08:02 pm CST
My wife is the most slave like woman I have ever met, and makes Me very happy, she is so well trained, I NEVER have to tell her what to do, and she appreciates My ability to take care of all the problems
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:08:23 pm CST
smiling to hulya,, there is certainly that bent to a portion of society.. if aliens were to judge men and women by a certain portion of television shows, movies, commercials,, they would conclude men were the weak, stupid, etc
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:08:53 pm CST
Keeper, please don't grade my grammar ~laughs~
Dak 20:09:06 pm CST
I believe that is true, hulya
Lita, Physician 20:09:08 pm CST
Well, Thadron, the books were his fantasies. And in our fantasies, we can have things both ways! *LOL*
Ramses 20:09:50 pm CST
*chuckles at Lita's comment*
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:09:51 pm CST
maybe she is a wonder to Him simply because she is so willing to live only for Him...and He has a very different mindset about His life
hulya{GS} 20:10:34 pm CST
girl isn't sure how to explain it best, but when was the last time the Free Men in here have been gone and done something dangerous and adventurous or been invited to?
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:11:21 pm CST
Thadron, it is one of the many idiosyncratic juxtapositions that We see in JN writings. Slaves are cherished and worthless?
Dak 20:11:25 pm CST
I don't think that is necessarily true, Lita, 60 or 70 years ago, there were a lot of similarities to Gor in the society at that time !
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:12:43 pm CST
interesting question, hulya....
I don't take too many risks... but even at my age I do enjoy activities that raise the adrenaline and no, not just sex ~lol~ so some sex might be considered dangerous ~l~
hulya{GS} 20:13:02 pm CST
And also, for the Free Men here who are in a relationship, has there been a time when Your signifigant other needed You to rescue her in some fashion and if You did how'd it make You feel?
Lita, Physician 20:13:09 pm CST
As to the second question, yes, the Free women did have slaves to help care for the children and attend household duties. The very first books even said that there were "State" slaves who could be had to come in and attend such things for Those Who could not afford to own enough slaves. Slaves had many duties, including working in mills and "factories".
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:14:17 pm CST
Master Ramses. ~blushing~ this is true indeed, an example is that flicka and her Jarl have a more exciting and fulfilling sexlife now than they had 10 years ago, how many people can say that?
Perhaps taking up Master Thardon's point, is perhaps mutual respect the issue? A girl is trying to say that she respects her Jarl and all Men, but has also found that her Jarl and most Masters respect also what a girl is, ie slave. They recognise that the giving encompassed in being a Gorean slave is tantamount and at times a girl must bite back a retort if she is to remain true to what she wishes to be.
Dak 20:15:10 pm CST
I've never really been the dare devil type, *smiles*, but nothing but My work ever required Me to, and it has at times provided Me with much adrenaline flow, *smiles*
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:15:51 pm CST
Ramses, it is a wonderful relationship. yes I am lucky, but it also requires hard work. It is a very complex relationship, far more complex that anything that is described in any book.
Ramses 20:15:52 pm CST
*nodding to flicka in agreement
Dak 20:16:17 pm CST
the books re only fantasies, if you have no knowledge of life a 100 years ago !
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:16:23 pm CST
Thadron, Grammar mode is now disabled!
Ramses 20:16:29 pm CST
that is ALWAYS the case as regards any book or set of books, Keeper
*grins*
Lita, Physician 20:16:33 pm CST
True Dak, there were many similarities, but even then, women were often saddled with more responsibilities than was really reasonable. However, having large families meant that some of the burdens could be parceled out among the younger generation. Same with bringing in the money. At first, the Man had that sole responsibility. Later, the younger generation could assist with that.
retard 20:18:23 pm CST
was told to check this out and that there were role playing rooms somewhere can anybody help steer me in the right direction
Lita, Physician 20:19:17 pm CST
Also Dak, back 100 years ago, families often lived together, Everyone did not necessarily have to maintain their own house. That eased the burden of survival somewhat. Then, when the family as an entity could prosper beyond the mere facts of supporting themselves, the younger generation, if it wished, could be assisted in establishing its own "homestead".
Dak 20:19:20 pm CST
well, many men took over much of the duties after chidren reached certain age, also teaching them to work and hunt and fish and providing for the family, surprisingly enough, that was not always fun, when you had to provide all the sustenance, it can be quite arduous
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:19:58 pm CST
Regarding hulya's point, a girl agrees, the gender roles have been blurred in our modern society and this is at times to the detriment of happiness for both men and women.
Lita, Physician 20:20:03 pm CST
retarded, tonight is a discussion night. We are not role-playing here until Forum is over with. Are you familiar with Gor at all?
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:20:06 pm CST
I don't have any dramatic examples of rescuing a "mate"... though I have found when I do, that I do get a positive response...
I have plenty of discussions now with my wife about our roles, who does what, and it's interesting, we still believe in traditional roles of men and women even though society has tried to enlighten us
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:20:27 pm CST
I am risk taker. Weigh up the odds and just go for it.
'Bite of more than you can chew, then chew like crazy.'
I have done some very interesting and stupid things, but I will not go to the grave having not tried something.
Dak 20:21:10 pm CST
aye, I can understand that, Thadron
hulya{GS} 20:22:45 pm CST
One of the reasons many men have admitted to cheating is for adventure, and many women professed it was because their man was basically dead or couldn't commit to them
Dak 20:23:04 pm CST
now is as good a time as any, The Captain has an announcement
Lita, Physician 20:23:53 pm CST
A sort of "Hold My beer and watch this!" kind of guy are You Keeper? *grins*
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:24:21 pm CST
this one feels rescued when she has a flat tire and He comes, or sends someone to help...things like that
Ramses 20:24:29 pm CST
*chuckling*
Lita, Physician 20:24:49 pm CST
*listening for the announcement*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:24:58 pm CST
~nods~ that's a good discussion all in it's own, hulya.......
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:24:59 pm CST
Keper grins always have lived on the edge ~
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:25:09 pm CST
The roles in society have changed. It is a modern misconception that change is always for the better.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:25:40 pm CST
~whispers~ The Jarl is terrified of spiders, we had an enormous Huntsman in the toilet the other day, guess Who was the White Knight in Shining Armour, my hero Jarl Keeper, who removed it. Now that is being brave and adventurous.
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:26:15 pm CST
~Listening to the Captain~
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:26:15 pm CST
~rises~
I will now give the floor to our Senior Captain... Sandman?....
~remains standing in front of the dais~
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:26:19 pm CST
smiling as i hear Dak speak
Ramses 20:26:41 pm CST
*looking toward Sandman
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:26:51 pm CST
~chuckles~ spiders
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:26:52 pm CST
then smiling to my brother I stand,,and look out to those gathered here,, Ramses,, please step forward to the dais
natira{GS} 20:27:07 pm CST
listens curiously for the announcement
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:27:22 pm CST
~a small frown flickering onto flicka's face, hates announcements~
Ramses 20:27:33 pm CST
*rises from My firs and steps toward the dais*
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:28:08 pm CST
ooooh ~wriggles a little, maybe doesn't hate all announcements~
Ramses 20:28:26 pm CST
*winks to flicka*
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:28:35 pm CST
~Listening still.~
natira{GS} 20:28:52 pm CST
giggles at flicka as she watches Master Rasmses while he moves to Master Sandman
lilith {GS} 20:29:40 pm CST
*nibbles lower lip as bright violets glitter curiously as she watches intently*
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:32:07 pm CST
~scribes quietly, blue eyes lifting to watch~
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:32:08 pm CST
reaching beside me,, i gather into my arms a helmet,, with a crest of sleen hair,, the Symbol of a Captain of Port Kar,,
Looking down at Ramses
It is my understanding that you are wish to move from Emeritus status back to active status as a Captain of Port Kar.
is that correct brother Ramses?
Ramses 20:32:50 pm CST
That is correct, brother ...
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:32:53 pm CST
~a solemn look to Ramses anxiously awaiting his answer~
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:33:58 pm CST
handing the helmet to Ramses
Welcome back to the Council of Captains Brother
please join Thadron and I on the dais
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:34:10 pm CST
~Gazing at Ramses, suppressing a grin.~
natira{GS} 20:34:50 pm CST
~claps her hand as He returns to active Captain status
Ramses 20:35:14 pm CST
*reaching out to accept the helmet ... the striding up the steps to the dais
turning and holding the helmet aloft for all to see ...
Nodding My thanks to both Sandman and Thadron
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:35:16 pm CST
~I strike My shoulder with My fist in approval~
Welcome back to the Council, Ramses....
Lita, Physician 20:36:05 pm CST
*clapping Her gloved hands softly* Welcome back, Ramses!
Ramses 20:36:08 pm CST
thank you Thadron ..
it is a pleasure for Me to Me to be back!
Ramses 20:36:20 pm CST
nodding, thank you Lita
Dak 20:36:25 pm CST
Welcome back, Captain Ramses
Ramses 20:36:31 pm CST
*winking to natira*
Ramses 20:36:42 pm CST
Thank you Dak ...
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:37:18 pm CST
~risking a sly peek at Master Ramses resplendent with the helmet, thinking she will have to behave herself now when addressing the August Captain~
Ramses 20:36:08 pm CST
thank you Thadron ..
it is a pleasure for Me to Me to be back!
Dak 20:37:45 pm CST
*nods*
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:37:47 pm CST
~smiles as the handsome Captain holds up His helmet
lilith {GS} 20:38:02 pm CST
*claps dainty hands as she tries to supress a squeal of delight*
natira{GS} 20:38:06 pm CST
~smiles warmly~
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:38:10 pm CST
~Broad grin beaming for Ramses. I pound My shoulder.~
Congratulations Captain Ramses.
hulya{GS} 20:38:12 pm CST
*smiles and winks flirtily at Master Ramses*
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:38:53 pm CST
Congratulations Master Ramses, may a girl ask You a question please?
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:38:54 pm CST
smiling i sit down and wave to Dak,, you have the floor
Ramses 38:59 pm CST
smiling to lilith and the flirty hulya
Ramses 20:39:15 pm CST
thanks you Keeper ...
Ramses 20:39:57 pm CST
noting that Sandman has returned the floor to Dak, it will have to wait, flicka
Sheadon~ Pirate 20:39:57 pm CST
congrats Captain Ramses
Ramses 20:40:54 pm CST
nods to Sheadon*
Dak 20:44:10 pm CST
I guess we can return to the forum topic
Dak 20:46:59 pm CST
or if everyone would prefer, to call the forum to a close since it is close to the 9PM, tie
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:48:06 pm CST
Well, where were we. I'm not really the 'Hold My beer...' person. Lita I only take risks if I know I can deal with the consequences. Which is just about anything.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:49:21 pm CST
~soft voice~ a girl thinks it would be fitting for us all to go to the Tavern and celebrate Master Ramses Captaincy.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:49:29 pm CST
lets call it for tonight, Dak....
when it's closed I will stay and remind everyone about the activities this week
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:50:02 pm CST
I agree with flicka, I would like the honour of buying a drink for the new Captain.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:50:30 pm CST
~laughs~ Mistress Lita, Jarl Keeper's glass is never full enough for Him to hold His beer in it. It is in His tummy.
Dak 20:50:38 pm CST
cool, I will call the forum to a close, thanks to all for coming, and contributing to the form,
thanks for scribing, snowrose
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:51:24 pm CST
ok, My time for tonight has expired
I will be traveling this hand
so I will not be able to be on until later in the week
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:51:31 pm CST
thank you Dak.. perhaps next week we can have more discussion on this topic
Lita, Physician 20:55:14 pm CST
Thanks All for contributing to Forum tonight
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:55:31 pm CST
Bookclub Tuesday.. we will be beginning discussion of Guardsman of Gor (730 gs time)
Slave class on Wednesday (gather before 730 gs time)
I will be here tomorrow night, we don't have anything planned, but we will discuss where to go from there...
