Present:
Thadron
Jarl Thorrn
Dak
Kazar
Tanthios
Lita
karinda
giani
iana
jalea
snowrose
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:37:01 pm
CST
My humblest apologies for My late arrival...
please whisper me any items for discussion
tonight...
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 19:37:15 pm CST
Thadron
It is good to have You back
We already assumed already that You took all
the slaves with You on Your journey
*grin*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:40:54 pm
CST
~a large smile on My face...~ of course I was
well attended on My travels... I have no
complaints of the slaves I had about
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:49:05 pm
CST
you are welcome, jalea.. and GS is a good
place to learn...
I am ready to open Forum tonight... a
reminder, while Forum is open, all can speak
freely, Free or slave, and all social chat and
greetings must be kept in whispers to allow for
scribing..
just one moment and I will post the first topic
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:53:26 pm
CST
On the web page for GS,the instructions for
serving kla-la-na say the slave must pull
the cork from the bottle with her teeth. Now
GS claims to go by the books, so I have
done some searching. I have found quotes on
serving ka-la-na, but not a single one that
I have so far found shows the girl pulling the
cork with her teeth. I have also looked
at the serving rules for various other Gor sites
that I ran across, and not a single
one instructs their slaves to do this. So why
are We REQUIRING it in each and every ka
ka-la-na serve? I could see doing it once in a
while as a variation, but not as a regular
requirement.
Here is our web page instructions:
"Ka-la-na: very potent dry red wine made
from the fruit of the ka-la-na tree
and is said to have an aphrodisiac effect on
females
· served in a goblet
· chilled: bottles in cold room
· can also be served room temperature
· hot: small kettle over the fire (do not stir!)
· reminder: uncork bottle with teeth
. bring the bottle and goblet to the Free, serve
at their feet "
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 19:55:33 pm CST
Some times Port Kar is special, Thadron
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:55:56 pm
CST
May I start by saying one thing for
clarification:
GS has always strove to go by the books as
best we can online... not at all costs... I want to
make sure that every one is clear that we do
continue to make some small provision for the
fact that this is an online forum.. though I am
not sure this item would fall in that bucket...
I have a few pages of quotes that will reinforce
the statement as we discuss...
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 19:56:45 pm CST
what is wrong with the way girls serve kalana
here?
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 19:57:30 pm CST
so it isn't mentioned in the books.. it adds
sensuality and style to a girl's serve.. the books
don't mention reaching up on tip toes for a
goblet either.. but we all do it
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 19:57:50 pm CST
iana
It is not about if it is wrong to do that
It is about if the way of having the slaves
opening the bottles with their teeth is
according to the Gorean books
Dak 19:58:00 pm CST
well, to My knowledge, the serves of GS are an
onlinism, I assume to make online Gor more
colourful and entertaining !
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:58:01 pm
CST
snowrose, can you confirm that the quote at
the bottom of the first post is indeed how we
teach the serving of ka-la-na wine
Lita, Physician 19:58:31 pm CST
iana, it is not "wrong". Pulling the cork with
the teeth is just not done in the books that I
can find. And, to make it a requirement in
each and every serve, does not allow for any
variation or creativity on the part of the
slaves serving. Makes too much for cookie
cutter serves.
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 19:59:43 pm CST
perhaps not wrong then.. but isn't it the same
for the way a girl enters the cold room? or
pulls a vessel off the shelf?
Dak 20:00:14 pm CST
in the 11 years I've been around GS it has
always been done this way, I have no
knowledge of how or when it was began !
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 20:00:43 pm CST
it is up to the girl to add detail and become
creative.. .. if everything were done "by the
books" it would, in this girl's opinion, be
extremely boring..
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:00:49 pm
CST
yes Master...that is how snowrose was taught,
and how it's always been done since she has
been here...she seems to vaguely remember
reading it in one of the books, but not sure...
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:01:00 pm
CST
and iana.. unless prohibited in GS as some
things are... then it is up to your Master how
you serve in GS and it is His responsibility for
how you serve in GS... If the Council doesn't
agree with that, then your Owner will hear
about it..
Dak 20:01:55 pm CST
exactly, iana , *smiles*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:02:10 pm
CST
Here are a few of the ka-la-na quotes that I
have found so far:
"Come closer," he said. I heard the bells of a
slave girl approach him. I stopped, head
down, several feet from him. My bare feet
sunk into the deep, soft, scarlet,
intricately wrought rugs which floored the
tent. I felt the pile about my ankles.
"Come closer," he said. Once again there was a
rustle of slave bells. I stood before
him. "Lift your head, Girl," he said. I looked
into his eyes. I wore his collar. I
quickly dropped my head. I felt his large
hands part the bit of silk that I wore and,
gently, drop it about my ankles. He turned
from me and went to sit down, cross-legged,
some feet behind the tiny fire in the fire bowl.
We regarded one other. "Serve me wine," he
said. I turned and, among the furnishings of
the tent, found a bottle of Ka-la-na, of good
vintage, from the vineyards of Ar, the
loot of a caravan raid. I then took the wine,
with a small copper bowl, and a black,
red-rimmed wine crater, to the side of the fire.
I poured some of the wine into the small
copper bowl, and set it on the tripod over the
tiny fire in the fire bowl. He sat cross-legged,
facing me, and I knelt by the fire,
facing him.
After a time I took the copper bowl from the
fire and held it against my cheek. I
returned it again to the tripod, and again we
waited.
I began to tremble. "Do not be afraid, Slave,"
he said to me. "Master!" I pleaded. "I
did not give you permission to speak," he said.
I was silent. Again I took the bowl
from the fire. It was now not comfortable to
hold the bowl, but it was not painful to
do so.
I poured the wine from the small copper bowl
into the black, red-trimmed wine crater,
placing the small bowl in a rack to one side of
the fire. I swirled, slowly, the wine
in the wine crater. I saw my reflection in the
redness, the blondness of my hair, dark
in the wine, and the collar, with its bells, about
my throat. I now, in the fashion of
the slave girl of Treve, held the wine crater
against my right cheek. I could feel the
warmth of it through the side of the crater.
"Is it ready?" he asked. A master of Treve does
not care to be told what his girl
thinks it is. He wishes to be told Yes, or No.
"Yes," I whispered. I did not know how
he cared for his wine, for some men of Treve
wish it warm, almost hot. I did not know
how he wished it. What if it were not as he
wished it!
"Serve me wine," he said. I, carrying the
crater, rose to my feet and approached him. I
then knelt before him, with a rustle of slave
bells, in the position of the pleasure
slave. I put my head down and, with both
hands, extending my arms to him, held forth
the wine crater.
"I offer you wine, Master" I said. He took the
wine, and I watched in terror. He sipped
it, and smiled. I nearly fainted I would not be
beaten. I knelt there, while he, at
his leisure, drank the wine."
Page 331 - 332 -
Captive of Gor
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:03:20 pm
CST
let's read the quotes so far I have not seen how
the bottles are opened... if you see one in the
quotes point it out to us all
Tanthio§~~~ Master of iana 20:05:28 pm CST
I think the rule was made with the vision of a
slaves mouth upon the neck of the bottle for
sensual reason way back when.. It should be
an option if the one serving wishes to do so
that way or not.
Lita, Physician 20:05:30 pm CST
iana, "by the books", the slaves varied their
serves. No slave in the books ever served
things the way they are done on-line.
*chuckle* I was just thinking of allowing more
variety in serves, so there is more interest in
them. So serves don't get boring and aren't all
alike. I used to know a slave who would
sometimes...
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:06:30 pm
CST
It is served chilled or at room temperature.
Book 1: Tarnsman of Gor, pages 26, 79,
96, 168;
Book 4: Nomads of Gor, page 151;
Book 7: Captive of Gor, pages 114, 331, and
332;
Book 15: Rogue of Gor, pages 158 and
375;
Book 21: Mercenaries of Gor, pages 344
and 360
Little pock-face,' called Relius. 'I would be
served.' Virginia Kent, with her pitcher
of Ka-la-na, ran lightfootedly to Relius, guard
in the House of Cernus. 'Let Lana serve
Relius wine.' said another girl, a Red Silk Girl,
first to the guard, leaning towards
him, lips parted. Relius put out his cup but
before the girl could pour the wine she
seemed suddenly to fly off the back of the dias,
the seat of her tunic firmly gripped
in the small hand of Virginia Kent, Lana
landed with a considerable bump on the stones
of the hall, the wine flying backward. 'Relius
guards Virginia,' the young slave girl
from Earth informed collared, Red Silk
Lana.
Assassins of Gor --pg. 238
Aphris got up and fetched not a skin, but a
bottle, of wine, Ka-la-na wine, from the
Ka-la-na orchards of great Ar itself. She also
brought a black, red-trimmed wine crater
from the isle of Cos.
“May I serve you?” she asked.
Kamchak’s eyes glinted. “Yes,” he said.
She poured wine into the crater and replaced
the bottle. Kamchak had watched her hands
very carefully. She had had to break the seal
on the bottle to open it. The crater had
been upside down when she had picked it up.
If she had poisoned the wine she had
certainly done so deftly.
Then she knelt before him in the position of the
Pleasure Slave and, head down, arms
extended, offered him the crater.
Nomads of Gor Book 4 Page 151
------------------------------
"Clitus, too, had brought two bottles of Ka-la-
na wine, a string of eels, cheese of the
Verr and a sack of red olives from the groves
of Tyros."
- Raiders of Gor p 114
"I had tarsk meat and yellow bread with
honey, Gorean peas, and a tankard of diluted
Ka-la-na, warm water mixed with wine."
- Assassin of Gor p 87
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:06:45 pm
CST
probably some long ago slave did it to be sexy,
and others kept it up, and the Captains at the
time like it...the books don't say a slave was
forbidden to do it
Dak 20:07:09 pm CST
I can go to the local bar for varied serves ! I
get a real drink there !
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:08:13 pm CST
Dak
did you get a slave-like service at that bar?
If yes, post the addy *g*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:08:33 pm
CST
Here we go....
Kamchak had watched her hands
very carefully. She had had to break the seal
on the bottle to open it. The crater had
been upside down when she had picked it up.
If she had poisoned the wine she had
certainly done so deftly.
Tanthio§~~~ Master of iana 20:08:42 pm
CST
Chuckles
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 20:08:49 pm CST
iana supposes it is not the pulling of the cork
that has twisted her own cork so to speak but
the remark about "going by the books"... it's
impossible..
Lita, Physician 20:09:11 pm CST
say the cold room door stuck, and when she
pulled it hard to get it open, it gave suddenly
and knocked her ass over teakettle clear across
the kitchen. she didn't do that every time., but
when she did it always brought a chuckle. And
that of course isn't in the books either, but
slaves didn't have to go to the cold room every
time they served, either.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:10:29 pm
CST
iana,didn't I already address that we don't go
by the books explicitly... there are many
instances where we don't and really can't
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 20:11:39 pm CST
You did Master Thadron... she was only
stating that she agrees with that.. and
explaining herself, she will go silent if that is
Your preference
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:12:25 pm CST
iana
going by the books doesn´t imply all and
everything what is done in Port Kar
But it is one goal of the life in GS to be not far
from the books, so there can be lots of
discussions about details. If it is meant to be
strongly like the books or more freedom. That
discussion will never end
Dak 20:12:52 pm CST
when we used to have the older experienced
slaves around they used to do that frequently,
Lita, most of things are learned from
previously experienced slaves, and of which,
we don't have many from the old GS
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:12:58 pm
CST
what I am hearing is a request for more
variety and creativity in serves...
but that makes it hard for trainers to train
than to have some strong basis for what a
serve is to be...
I believe the Council approves of creativity ....
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 20:13:15 pm CST
she nods.. going quiet..
Lita, Physician 20:13:38
CST
iana, it is partly a matter of if the rules say
this thing must be done this way each and
every time, the slaves don't tend to get
creative, for fear of doing something wrong.
And in the books, were done differently in the
different cultures around the planet. The way
We do things on-line, all the same,tends to get
very boring sometimes.
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:14:02 pm CST
chuckles @ Lita
Funny actions like that are always estimated
as additional spice.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:14:27 pm
CST
iana, I was just hoping that I had been heard...
your comments are welcome... and I love it
when I am agreed with ~winks~
Lita, Physician 20:15:44 pm CST
I wouldn't mind seeing a slave pull a cork with
her teeth now and them, but it would be nice
also to see them occasionally pull it with
fingers, or, say, can't get it out and have to go
get a pair of pliers to pull it with, stuff like
that.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:16:41 pm
CST
to be honest snowrose teaches by the
manual...to be sure the girls know the steps of
a serve, the other protocols...but when they're
serving, and when she is serving, we don't
follow it slavishly...she thinks we all try to spin
it a little...but then a Free will complain about
that at times...we're slaves, we can't win for
losing
Dak 20:17:03 pm CST
I think it is very difficult for slaves to be
creative, when the person being is more
concerned with how quick they serve than
how creative the serve is !
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:17:20 pm CST
I think, going by the books is a kind of
framework to stick to, to have a basic common
understanding in the training of slaves and
expectations a Master can have on a slave
Beyond that framework variety and fantasy is
very welcome, at least for Me
May be Wwe should remember that habits of
Gor ar often explained in the books with
varieties in the different towns of Gor
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:18:52 pm
CST
~chuckles~ as with bringing in new girls that
have to learn.. we have a basic structure for a
slave to follow...
I agree with iana that creativity should be
exhibited and allowed
and I agree with Thorrn that as we discuss
details we will always find things that are not
strictly by the books.. the importance in My
mind, is .. are we doing something that would
never be done on Gor? if so we need to discuss
that item... if there is the possibility that it
could be done on Gor.. then I have some
leniency
Lita, Physician 20:18:57 pm CST
Now I know having a lot of variety makes it a
bit difficult for the trainers, and I know the
girls would rather have everything 1..2...3...4...
etc., so no one can object to what they do. But I
think we have a group of intelligent slaves,
and certainly our trainers and first girl are
the best, so I think we could all handle it if
everyone, slaves included, could use their
brains.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:19:59 pm
CST
framework is exactly the word going through
My mind, thank you Thorrn...
Dak 20:20:11 pm CST
that is true, Thorrn, many of the things in GS
are from other books, not just Raiders mixed
together , to make the scene more enjoyable
Lita, Physician 20:20:47 pm CST
That is a good point, Dak. Perhaps We as Free
need to be more careful to ask for a harta
serve if we are in a hurry for some reason
and don't wish to give the girl time to be
creative.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:21:52 pm
CST
"Ka-la-na: very potent dry red wine made
from the fruit of the ka-la-na tree
and is said to have an aphrodisiac effect on
females
• served in a goblet
• chilled: bottles in cold room
• can also be served room temperature
• hot: small kettle over the fire (do not stir!)
• reminder: uncork bottle with teeth
. bring the bottle and goblet to the Free, serve
at their feet "
looking at this closer I can justify why it is
taught this way... if a girl uses her own lips to
uncork the wine
she can't be poisoning it... so for a Tavern in
Port Kar to require it, I don't think it is
extraordinary
karinda {GS} 20:22:05 pm CST
sometimes karinda wishes she didnt have to
count how many posts she makes for a
serve.....worrying she doesn't have enough or
too much.....in her words......lowers her eyes
and hushes her lips now
Dak 20:22:35 pm CST
aye, that is the reason for a harta serve,
*smiles*, which also I've never seen in the
books
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:23:21 pm CST
Lita
I´m too sure Wwe have some lovely and
intelligent slaves in Port Kar
But as snowrose already mentioned, when
there is a rule about something a slave will
have to be prepared that a Master (or a
Mistress getting her Black Wine) insists in the
slave following the rule or she gets scolded or
punished.
So it is better to get clear what are rules and
where varities are allowed or welcome
Dak 20:24:07 pm CST
aye, Captain, and is probably the reason for
that procedure,
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:25:10 pm
CST
wine can be served from a pitcher as well..
and we do it when we serve "Northern style"
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:25:17 pm
CST
karinda, that is what snow means...as long as
all the actions are performed and the serve is
broken up, not huge posts, she doesn't care if
it's short a post...if a serve is sensual,
captivating, interesting, that's what matters
Lita, Physician 20:25:38 pm CST
But Thadron, in the books the Free weren't
always worried about being poisoned. In fact,
in all the books I think there was only one
incident in which a Master ordered a slave to
taste His drink for poison , and that was
because He KNEW she had tried to poison it.
The Free weren't always concerned that Their
drinks might be poisoned, not even in Port
Kar. And, if the girl opens the bottle in front of
Them, They cold SEE if she tried to put
anything into the bottle., or for that matter
into the wine after it was poured.
karinda {GS} 20:26:10 pm CST
nods to snowrose
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:26:21 pm CST
Thadron
Well, if a slave has to open the ka-la-na wine
bottle with her teeth
then i would poison the bowl with paga, the
tankard with ale or the plate of verr slices or
fruits or verr cheese
What makes the wine so special for poisoning
it?
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:27:39 pm
CST
karinda.. we teach the many steps for the
reason to show that a girl has put thought into
each part of her serve... I concur with
snowrose.. a well thought out and sensual 4
post serve is often better that a 5 or 6 post
serve.. but in teaching... we are giving a
framework that can be followed...
Lita, Physician 20:28:05 pm CST
Thadron ka-la-na could also be served
"mulled" and from a crater. Saw a couple of
quotes on that too, though I'm not sure if I
saved them
Dak 20:28:06 pm CST
when I came to GS , it was common for a slave
to taste the offering, but they did drop it a few
years later , saying it was presumed
everything in GS was safe !
Dak 20:28:47 pm CST
But GS has always been the bottles
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:29:52 pm
CST
I think you can find more than one instance,
Lita...
what about Assassins?
the point I was making that in a place of
thieves and cutthroats that is Port Kar, it isn't
too far off the course to believe that a Tavern
Owner would make rules like this for the
slaves
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:30:15 pm
CST
isn't that kalda Mistress
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:30:20 pm
CST
I posted the one about the crater, Lita...
Lita, Physician 20:30:40 pm CST
Goreans in the books just didn't concern
Themselves a whole lot withthe possibility of
being poisoned. for one thing, should a Free
die of poison, the slave who served Them
would immediately be deemed guilty and
killed, whether she actually did the poisoning
or not. Whisper from karinda
was that post for Thadron.....it is an
interesting idea snow....
Lita, Physician 20:32:26 pm CST
snow, kalda is a bit different than mulled ka-
la-na. Sometime when I have time I'll dig up
the differences for you. I have yet to hear
anyone on-line aske for mulled ka-la-na
anyway. "chuckle"
giani{GS} 20:32:32 pm CST
personally as long as the slave remembers to
uncork the bottle (which at times girl has
accidentally forgotten) it should not matter
how it got uncorked.. cause personally has
anyone in r/t tried to open a bottle of wine
with their teeth.. it has so much pressure it
probably would knock out the teeth when the
cork popped free...
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:32:48 pm
CST
"Come closer," he said. I heard the bells of a
slave girl approach him. I stopped, head
down, several feet from him. My bare feet
sunk into the deep, soft, scarlet,
intricately wrought rugs which floored the
tent. I felt the pile about my ankles.
"Come closer," he said. Once again there was a
rustle of slave bells. I stood before
him. "Lift your head, Girl," he said. I looked
into his eyes. I wore his collar. I
quickly dropped my head. I felt his large
hands part the bit of silk that I wore and,
gently, drop it about my ankles. He turned
from me and went to sit down, cross-legged,
some feet behind the tiny fire in the fire bowl.
We regarded one other. "Serve me wine," he
said. I turned and, among the furnishings of
the tent, found a bottle of Ka-la-na, of good
vintage, from the vineyards of Ar, the
loot of a caravan raid. I then took the wine,
with a small copper bowl, and a black,
red-rimmed wine crater, to the side of the fire.
I poured some of the wine into the small
copper bowl, and set it on the tripod over the
tiny fire in the fire bowl. He sat cross-legged,
facing me, and I knelt by the fire,
facing him.
After a time I took the copper bowl from the
fire and held it against my cheek. I
returned it again to the tripod, and again we
waited.
I began to tremble. "Do not be afraid, Slave,"
he said to me. "Master!" I pleaded. "I
did not give you permission to speak," he said.
I was silent. Again I took the bowl
from the fire. It was now not comfortable to
hold the bowl, but it was not painful to
do so.
I poured the wine from the small copper bowl
into the black, red-trimmed wine crater,
placing the small bowl in a rack to one side of
the fire. I swirled, slowly, the wine
in the wine crater. I saw my reflection in the
redness, the blondness of my hair, dark
in the wine, and the collar, with its bells, about
my throat. I now, in the fashion of
the slave girl of Treve, held the wine crater
against my right cheek. I could feel the
warmth of it through the side of the crater.
"Is it ready?" he asked. A master of Treve does
not care to be told what his girl
thinks it is. He wishes to be told Yes, or No.
"Yes," I whispered. I did not know how
he cared for his wine, for some men of Treve
wish it warm, almost hot. I did not know
how he wished it. What if it were not as he
wished it!
"Serve me wine," he said. I, carrying the
crater, rose to my feet and approached him. I
then knelt before him, with a rustle of slave
bells, in the position of the pleasure
slave. I put my head down and, with both
hands, extending my arms to him, held forth
the wine crater.
"I offer you wine, Master" I said. He took the
wine, and I watched in terror. He sipped
it, and smiled. I nearly fainted I would not be
beaten. I knelt there, while he, at
his leisure, drank the wine."
Page 331 - 332 -
Captive of Gor
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:32:56 pm
CST
yes Mistress she knows it has juice too...
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:34:06 pm CST
nods to giani
I never heard about tooth doctors on Gor and
when the slaves would uncork bottles by teeth
they surely would need one from time to time
*l*
I wouldn´t want to do that in rt
Dak 20:34:28 pm CST
there are many things in the rules directed at
the possibility of poisoned needles, like when a
slave enters and splays her fingers, I don't
know how many know that is so a slave can't
hide a poison needle between her fingers
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:37:24 pm
CST
I don't feel there is a reason to change the way
this is taught...
the slave as snowrose said so eloquently,
cannot win.. the Free is always right...
however, I like the thought of the seal from the
quote from Relius... that I posted earlier.. and
will work with snowrose to come up with
maybe an update to the rules when the corks
get updated.. of course any change will be
voted on by the council....
a girl will not be punished for being creative
when she is honestly trying to please... she
may be corrected and all of us have proven
capable of correcting a slave...
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:38:42 pm
CST
this topic is closed
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:40:00 pm
CST
~smiles~ next topic has to do with pointing
out how quickly a woman from earth can be
enslaved. It is from Book 27, Prize of Gor
"For these personal reasons, reasons of a
rather particular nature, it amused me to
bring her here, and have her enslaved."
"Was she troublesome on Earth?" asked one of
the men.
Mirus smiled.
"Perhaps she once entered a line, or a door,
before you, not invited to do so, but as though
it were her right?"
"Perhaps she cast you a haughty glance, or
once spoke shortly to you?" suggested another.
Ellen then began to grasp how easily a woman
of Earth, and with so little awareness,
thinking herself superior and safe, might court
the collar of a slave. A movement, a glance, a
word, a gesture which might cause no more
than a moment’s irritation or disgruntlement
to a typical male of Earth, used to such abuse,
might have different consequences altogether
with another sort of man, a man less tolerant
and less accommodating than those on whom
she was accustomed to inflict her pettiness and
disdain with impunity. "We will come back for
her," might say a Gorean slaver. "That one
does not know it but she has just made herself
an appointment with the slaving iron." How
differently would a woman of Earth behave
before a man, thought Ellen, if she realized
that one day she might find herself at his feet,
on her belly, stripped and chained, his slave.
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:40:21 pm CST
damn, slaves can be so dangerous
poisoned wine, poisoned needles
I will have to check My slave more thoroughly
*grin*
Lita, Physician 20:40:33 pm CST
The one thing I liked about that quote, Thadron,
is that it showed that the slaves were always in
fear of displeasing the Free. They could not
hide behind a rote way of serving that was
"the" way to do it, and if the Free was
displeased say, "well that's how we do it here".
If the Free was displeased, He/She could
punish the slave regardless. And Tavern slaves
were particularly subject to this, as Taverns
catered to travellers from other parts of the
world of Gor, where things might be done
differently. iana is right, the slave cannot win.
That is part of what slavery means. A slave in
a Tavern could never get comfortable and
think she had it all down and could never get
into trouble by serving "wrong" because
whatever she did, someone from somewhere else
might want it done differently. And the Free in
the books didn't feel the need to TELL the slave
specifically how They wished to be served. The
slave was just supposed to know. As that quote
shows.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:41:39 pm
CST
well said, Lita
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:42:37 pm
CST
~wonders how that would be possible, her
Master already so very thorough
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:43:24 pm CST
a good hint for the slaves, Lita
Don´t complain, try to read the mind of the
Master and be pleasing, if you fail - and is
ALWAYS you who fails - bear the
consequences
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:43:51 pm
CST
snowrose, I do appreciate you picked the most
appropriate icon for discussing serving from a
bottle
Lita, Physician 20:44:13 pm CST
*laughs* Thadron. Free Women couldn't win
either. Remember when Hilda the Haughty
walked behind Ivar Forkbeard. It was
commented that doing so was "slavelike" and
could get Her a collar.
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:44:34 pm CST
reads the long lists in which Free Women from
Earth can fail with Gorean Males óbserving
them on Earth
I like that list of reasons to enslave a Woman
*eg*
Lita, Physician 20:44:50 pm CST
quote You just gave, She couldn't have walked
in front of Him either!
karinda {GS} 20:45:21 pm CST
karinda always fears of displeasing
Free........so she nods at Mistress Lita's
post.....and Master Thadron of course.
Lita, Physician 20:46:21 pm CST
I think perhaps if I ever walk with a Gorean
male, I'd best be sure he is in a collar and
leash, just to make things clear!
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:47:17 pm CST
*LOL* @ Lita
then it wouldn´t be a gorean Male but a
gorean male slave
Well, some Mistresses of silk male slaves . .
giani{GS} 20:47:58 pm CST
if girl is not in a state of some f ear then she is
not a true slave.. for a girl should never get so
comfortable to think she is above being
punished.. or that is this girls way of thinking.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:48:05 pm
CST
I always wondered why you are brave enough
to come to a Gorean paga tavern unescorted,
Lita...
Lita, Physician 20:48:17 pm CST
Jarl Thorrn, a male slave did not have to be a
'silk" slave, even if owned by a Free Woman. I
think it would be fun to own a thrall and
Lita, Physician 20:48:37 pm CST
NOT ever use him! *grins*
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:49:05 pm CST
But that remark about a FW losing whether
She before or behind a Man shows something
which is also part of the Gorean books ...
sometimes there are contradictions.
John Norman wrote so many years on them
that He will have forgotten in later books what
He wrote in the early books, i think
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:49:16 pm
CST
wouldn't hurt My feelings if that is what you
choose to do with a thrall, Lita ~laughs~
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:49:43 pm
CST
yes, there are contradictions...
Tanthio§~~~ Master of iana 20:49:52 pm CST
Chuckles at Thorrn's comment
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:51:41 pm CST
btw, Lita
In the book i´m just readin (no 27) the word
Thrall is also used for females slaves
Lita, Physician 20:52:05 pm CST
Two reasons, Thadron. first, the rules here
state that Free Women ARE allowed in the
Tavern. I was assured of that when I first
came. Secondly, as a Physician, Im
accustomed to going places Free Women
normally don't go, in the practice of My Caste.
Now if You were lying on the Tavern floor
bleeding to death, I am sure You would not
want Me to wait tilI could round up an escort
before I would come attend You. Also, I am
under contract to the Tavern to provide
medical care for the slaves and Patrons. Give
the girls their slave wine and such, Take care
of the results of bar fights that break out. So
there is some leeway there.
Dak 20:52:49 pm CST
aye, I noticed that, too, Thorrn, *smiles*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:53:28 pm
CST
~laughs~ well said, Lita... though I have never
read where a Free Woman was allowed in a
paga tavern without escort in the books... have
you?
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:53:39 pm
CST
the definition is not gender specific to males ..
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:54:29 pm CST
snowrose
so far i assumed that thrall was specific for
males slaves
Dak 20:54:31 pm CST
but in Marauders, they only used thralls
referring to male slaves
Lita, Physician 20:55:32 pm CST
Actually, Thadron, I HAVE read that there
were Taverns that catered to Free Women as
well as Men. And remember the scene on the
bridge in Ko-ro-ba when Talena demanded
money from the Free Man to take the other
Free WomaN TO GET A DRINK? aND hE
OFFERED TO GO WITH THEM AND tALENA
WOULD NOT LET hIM?
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:57:04 pm
CST
I would be interested in seeing those paga
taverns with dancing slaves referenced...
Dak 20:57:07 pm CST
that was in Tarnsmen wasn't it , Lita
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:57:57 pm CST
The habits about FW, accompanied or not,
being allowed in a Tavern, is answered in
different ways in the books, it is said that it
depends a lot from the habits in a town
karinda {GS} 20:58:20 pm CST
smiles as dancing is mentioned....she closes her
eyes remember she danced twice this
week......her body naturally sways.
Dak 20:58:29 pm CST
book 22 Dancer had a white silk slave dancing
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:59:11 pm CST
Thadron
I remember faintly that about taverns where
FW are allowed it has been said that there
shall be no slave dancing
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:59:34 pm
CST
I need to read those quotes... I always thought
a Free Woman to be vulnerable in a paga
tavern... but I do know how Free Women in
some towns can go unescorted... without fear
Lita, Physician 20:59:37 pm CST
Here is a quote from uBAR lUTHER'S
sCROLLS ON tAVERNS WHERE fREE
wOMEN WERE ADMITTED:
Free women are not permitted in most paga
taverns though they are permitted entrance
into a few. In some taverns, even families are
permitted entrance. In such taverns, efforts
are made to promote modesty and decorum.
Men in these places try to restrain their
natural tendencies so as to not offend the free
women. Tavern owners would try to enforce
this decorum so that they can maintain their
reputation and protect their business. Men
have plenty of taverns they can go to where
they do not need to be restrained so there is no
reason for them to do so in these places. Most
free women though would rather not attend
such establishments. They do not wish to see
their men fawning over such lascivious
kajirae.
Lita, Physician 21:00:58 pm CST
Yes, Dak, that was in Tarnsman
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:01:02 pm
CST
well if that is the type of paga tavern you
think GS is, then we have to change the rule
Lita, 21:02:15 pm CST
Again, as Free Women were expected to
practice Their caste as Physicians, They would
almost HAVE to be allowed to go places where
Free Women did not ordinarily go.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:03:22 pm
CST
I already said "well said" to your justification
for being a physician in a paga tavern....
Lita, Physician 21:03:29 pm CST
Thadron, I did not say that GS is a "family"
Tavern. What I am saying is that the rules say
Free Women are permitted here. At one point
they were not, then at some time that rule
was changed. It's on the Web Pages.
Dak 21:03:36 pm CST
aye, well, that was Normans first book, I
believe He made many adjustments after that
and if you remember the Priest Kings burned
Karoba by the 2nd book, *smiles*
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 21:03:59 pm CST
I prefer the tavern of GS to stay as it is and FW
may be allowed to visit but Masters still can
behave as it pleases them . ..
Dak 21:04:32 pm CST
aye, Thorrn
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:04:51 pm
CST
I know Lita...
but nobody get the idea that GS is a "family"
Tavern, it is not...
Lita, Physician 21:05:26 pm CST
Yes, Dak, they did,. but, I DON'T think the
pRIEST kINGS BURNED kO-RO-BA for
allowing Free Women IN some TaVERNS
*CHUCKLE*
Lita, Physician 21:06:03 pm CST
Sorry for the caps, folks. My keyboard is being
a pain.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:06:06 pm
CST
I thank everyone for open and honest
discussion tonight...
Forum is closed...
thank you for scribing, snowrose...
