Jack Downing Part 5
[Here is a transcription an interview with Maj Jack Downing from November of 1998. The interviewer has insisted on his anonymity. ]___
Introduction: I am picking Major Jack Downing's brain, in the interest of getting a better understanding of some of the things he has alluded to in earlier writings. I have been cautioned that he will likely not answer all of my questions, as he is treading carefully around matters that are still highly classified enough to get him into trouble. ____
Q: First off, I'd like you to explain why you use the title "Major" even though you are not an active-duty military officer. ____
J.D.: It is a tradition that officers in the U.S. Armed Forces can hold on to the rank, as a sort of "honorary" title, that they last held before leaving the service. I suppose it's like being called "doctor" after you've earned a PhD. I left the army only a few years after the Vietnam conflict, and went into civilian employment with the NSA, and they called me Major there, so I got used to using the title. Ironically, during the war I was a captain, but usually went by "Mr." Because I was usually in mufty. I was working alongside the CIA, as a consultant in PSYOPS, and as a specialist in human ecology- ____
Q: Before you proceed, can you explain what you mean by "human ecology"? ____
J.D.: That's a phrase that connotes different things, depending on the context, from the wholesome to the not-so-wholesome. In the capacity for which I was employed, it was a way of pinning down the psyche and behaviors of human beings in differing environments or under various circumstances. It employed the observational principles of anthropologists and psychologists alongside the more manipulative techniques of advertisers, social engineers, and "golden age" brainwashers. It was, in retrospect, a very unorthodox and ethically questionable thing. ____
Q: So what were you doing there? What were you doing with all that? ____
J.D.: Ah, at first I was helping the CIA turn the sentiments of the Cambodian population against the Khmer Rouge. Among other things, we had a radio station which would broadcast western cultural programming to the locals. . .rock-n-roll, pro-American propaganda, sort of a VOA thing, only it was broadcast from within Phnom Penh, and was made to appear as if under strictly local sponsorship. I was back and forth between Vietnam and Cambodia (Kampuchea) doing various things. The radio thing was the most fun. ____
Q: You were in "mufty" as you said- ____
J.D.: Well, both in and out of uniform actually. I had two sets of ID, and in my "civilian" capacity I went about as Mr. Jacob Donleavy, passing as either a journalist, spook, or diplomat, depending on the circumstances. I was Captain Jack Downing in my Army uniform, but my MOS [ army job -ed.] was as varied as my hats. One day I'm in counterintelligence, another day a press liason, yet another time I'd be a Special Forces paratrooper. I had to keep tabs on several operations. Unconventional warfare was no picnic. Most of the operations were laughable failures, mostly due to the meddling of higher-up brass. . .We also brought the MK projects into the war. The, uh, extreme circumstances of warfare gave us excellent opportunities to observe the ways certain mind control technologies might work . . . or fail to work. ____
Q: What would you consider a success? ____
J.D.: Relative to the nature of the operation in question, I'd say that much was learned from the administering of psychoactive substances to the troops under combat stress. LSD, pot, the usual culprits, and then some new chemicals, trying to elicit stronger fight reflexes, etcetera. ____
Q: So you were like. . .a pusher, too? ____
J.D.: [grinning] You could say that. I was providing these substances to the soldiers personally, and would have had to take the fall, so to speak, if the big brass were to protest. Luckily, that didn't happen. What did happen is that these soldiers took stories back with them at the end of their tours. My name was connected with a certain quality of drugs, much like Mezz Mezzrow gave his name to Harlem's best reefer in the 30's. ____
Q: You mean, that "Captain Jack" is you!? ____
J.D. : Presumably. More amusing to me is the "Jacob's Ladder" connection. But anyway, it was all very insightful to me, because in my curiosity, I was consuming some of these substances myself, and learned a whole lot about myself. There was a fellow in army intelligence that I had some acquaintance with who was also messing with the stuff and he got it into his head that he was clairvoyant. There was a whole clique who got into this clairvoyance thing, and got some general to put up money for research. Ed, uh, he was called Ed James back then, was a PSYOPS guy, and still is. I'm a whole helluva lot more psychic than these guys, but I wasn't about to take up that indoors lifestyle when I was having so much fun in the Jungle. A man hasn't really lived until he's seen tracer and mortar fire at night, under the influence of acid. ___
Q: So, back to Phnom Penh... ___
J.D. : We had to hightail it out of there. I really feel bad for those people. Some of my colleagues (the CIA guys) had some women they were seeing out there, real cuties, that they had to abandon to the Khmer Rouge, and you know they got purged. ____
Q: So how long were you out there, in Southeast Asia? ____
J.D. : I served several tours of duties. I'm sorry I have to be vague about the exact years. After that I was over in Germany applying some of the findings we got, and set up some things in a few army bases in the U.S. At the time of my leaving, my role in the army as human ecology expert was taken up by another officer, a Michael Aquino, who was trying out these principles in the context of Anton Lavey's church, and it was alleged (and denied) in some base daycare centers. I knew about the daycare things, but I don't know of any involvement by Aquino. Who knows? Things in intelligence were so compartmentalized that one hand didn't know what the other was doing. ____
Q: Well this is pretty serious though. If you know something about those charges you should have testified when he was investigated. ____
J.D.: Hah! Are you kidding? In our field, nobody was sinless enough to cast the first stone. Anyway, Aquino was a member in good standing with the Black Ops Brethren, which my father was in, and I had to keep my nose clean if there was any hope of me getting in. ____
Q: Can you talk a bit about the Black Ops Brethren? What were they doing in the Vietnam War? ____
J.D. : What they were doing in the war, I am not at liberty to divulge. I was not a member, and had no contact with people identified to me as such. But I would not be surprised if they were not watching my work very closely, because when I did get involved, I saw the file they'd kept on me. It dated from my childhood, and was particularly detailed about my wartime work. ____
Q: And later? ____
J.D. : I've written about that period. I learned about the organization known exoterically as the Men in Black during my indoctrination into the brotherhood. I'd have loved to have talked to my father in greater depth about those earlier years, but he died not long after I got involved, and most of what I know about his secret work I read in the archive of the Black Ops Brethren. ____
Q: As soon as the focus turns directly on the Black Ops Brethren, you tend to get pretty slippery. ____
J.D. : You want to know why? I'll tell you. If I tell so much as a single story about specific operations, I become afraid. Why? I don't know why. Perhaps they conditioned me somehow. Perhaps I'm brainwashed, but I can't bring forth memories of specific activities without having a panic experience. I know how to cure myself of most anxieties and fears pretty easily. This is pretty deep stuff, which even the subtle psychological antidotes which I know won't fix. So. . .what I can do then is try to allude to things, beat around the bush, try to get closer to my own memories by sneakier means. How did I even get started talking about all this "Men in Black" stuff in the first place? I managed after years of struggle to bypass the defenses that were set up inside of me against speaking about those years. I'm tired. I'll tell you more some other time. ____
[Here is something from a response JD posted to a newsgroup in June 1998
Regarding the statement to the effect that the contents of ones hard drive are copied and stored at NORAD...This is nonsense. You must be joking. If anything on the scale of the contents of ones hard disk was being downloaded, don't you think you'd notice?___However, that said, your electronic communications ARE being intercepted and stored, but not at NORAD. There's a facility at Fort Meade in Maryland that keeps that info. But only if the content of your messages sends up any "flags."____The helicopters (both black and very dark green) are the property of the U.S. Army Special Operations group called 160th SOAR. They are slightly advanced, technologically, over other aviation groups, both domestic and foreign, and represent the vanguard of the future of electronic warfare. They are NOT extraterrestrial, nor are they "back-engineered." Those who propose the "back-engineering" hypothesis do not give humanity enough credit for technological innovation. ____Most "back-engineering" that took place during the Cold War was done by Soviets when they captured U.S. weapons systems, which happened too often, I'm afraid. They were never edvanced enough to merit back-engineering on our part, though there were allowances for that.___
The United Nations is kept on U.S. soil because it is much easier to collect all of their diplomatic signals traffic. It is the U.S. that puls the U.N.'s strings, not the other way around. The NWO project is entirely an American goal, dating back to the foundation. We're not talking some new development here. And yes, the Freemasons are behind it, but what of it?____The "Men in Black" are a gaggle of personnel from assorted military and civilian government agencies who represent the elite in the fields of counterintellignece and PSYOPS. They are charged with creating the "hall of mirrors" effect to foil any efforts to locate the truth about black ops projects, stealth weapons system deployment and testing, and interception of Soviet or other technologies or signals. By spinning off many "truths," documents, and rumors, and creating strange "anomalous" spectacles, they are better able to lead researchers off the correct path in their inquiries. All documents pertaining to "MiB" operations are archived with the Air Force Social Activities Center and the NSA, and are protected by compartmentalized top secret classifications (frankly, with regard to the NSA, even their requisition orders for tiolet paper bear compartmentalized top secret classifications).____Um, what else can I clear up...?___
Area 51: No ET UFOs or aliens there, or anywhere else for that matter. If you see strange aerial vehicles, you shouldn't automatically conclude that the aliens are coming. ____
Abductions: Mars needs women, right? The world would be a quieter place if the aliens would just keep their abductees (;)). . .In truth, the US only collects and tags a few people, mostly dependents of US military personnel. The ET thing is a hypnotic cover memory. Most abductees are people who for some reason (ie. hysteria) cannot distinguish fantasy from reality. In most actual cases when people are harvested for testing, they are not returned. For example, those poor suckers being tested for the Mach 9+ water-breathing flight suit technologies. Even if they survive, they know too much...
[This from May of 1997]
Q: Maybe the government is having a worldwide conspiracy, therefore this matter is true due to the fact that there have been sightings of UFOs worldwide.____
J.D.: The government is not a single organized entity, but a tenuous, compartmentalized "unity" with more resemblance to a corral reef or a fractal, than to the classic pyramid scheme. There are within this structure some inter- and intra-departmental groups, made up of top military minds and scholars, which spend all of their time hatching wonderful conspiracies for other departments to carry out. These activities function primarily to keep the U.S. at the peak of world political and economic power. Presidents, congressmen, supreme court justices, are all minor players in these operations, as the country would continue to run smoothly without them. Most events in this country, such as UFO sightings, wars, or assassinations are rooted in the economic needs of a power-hungry nation.___Your UFOs and aliens are just the byproducts of an elaborate PSYOPS program to distract attention away from miltary test and surveillance aircraft. ___The U.S. has assumed the role of a global police force. This is part of a straighforward agenda of cultural/economic imperialism. Outright military imperialism is frowned upon these days as backward and "undemocratic"...therefore the only recourse for this country is to spread its influence covertly lighting fires in far-off places, then "heroically" rushing there to put them out. Once there, it will only remain to establish local demands for American music, food, and fashions. This is how new markets are created: get them demanding, then be there to supply.
Part 6
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