back to phase menu
Original Question:
1 - "Can Wrath be satisfied?"
I would like to see this question answered in terms of your apparent standpoints, those being:
Cougaress- Wrath ought to act without emotion, cold and calculating.
Bramble- Wrath requires a tortured existence.
Of course, if I have misinterpreted your standpoint, please correct me.
2- One might say that, in answering the pleas of the women who visit my temple, I deliver divine wrath on their behalf. Why do I not qualify for the position of Wrath (or do I)?
Please keep your answers within a limit of 1000 words.
Bramble's Response:
Can Wrath be Satisfied?
Wrath can never be fully satisfied. It’s impossible to think it so. Oh, it can be satiated for awhile, but in the end the victim is always turned back to wrath. Finding a new victim to enact it upon.
You cannot escape Wrath, as it follows. An invisible ball and chain, and we are all hard wired for it. From my stand point (although I believe it involves more that just this) that wrath requires a tortured existence, this is true in this case. It’s a tortured existence for both good and evil. They are plagued by the opposition, no matter what level, and always have the drive to annihilate the other eternally. Nemesis , the eternal barred gate that will never let Wrath be satisfied. It is the cage, that will never let it out, as Wrath continues to howl and burn to find relief for the constant hunger. Over and over again, wrath is committed.
I have said, Wrath is a continuous cycle, always going from pain to fury, fury back to pain. Sometimes we do not recognize that pain, yet it always sprouts from there. Wrath always is retaliation, it’s the action. If someone hurts you in anyway, be it physical or not, wrath emerges.
There will always be hate and anger in this world. No matter how much the light boasts they do not hate or condemn…they cast stones down on us. True we are their enemies, but it is still wrathful behavior. Wrath is condemning…on either side. If Wrath were ever satisfied, the beings of the world would be grinning fools, like the Joker’s victims, walking around without thought. Or it would be one big fucking Barney special. Eventually someone would crack, the torture of the kindness and frilliness would explode. No one can bear that! That is a world without active emotion really, no negative emotion to balance out the good emotions of the light. The world cannot be void or satisfied of wrath. Wrath is part of the balance in this world. Black to White. Black cannot be turned white, there would be no balance.
I say that it’s impossible to FULLY satisfy Wrath, yet it is possible at times…for wrath to be satisfied, not fully, but satisfied, a bit. For example, the instance you’ve reached your vengeance, you start to calm back down….but wrath is just waiting. For the next time, you’ll be wronged again…and spring into action…that hunger. I said once before, I believe Wrath can be conscious and/or unconscious. It can be in different forms and levels. As is such, the satisfaction level is different as well. But the hunger is constant on each of the forms and levels. A person who is conscious of their wrath , will be attuned to being satisfied in their acts and will enjoy the suffering more. Whereas someone who unconsciously commits wrath, will not fully understand that feeling of relief they get from their actions, but it is still satisfaction. Yet conscious or unconscious…wrath will be back. . A hunger, that can never fully be acquitted, as it is ordained in this world.
-“One might say that, in answering the pleas of the women who visit my temple, I deliver divine wrath on their behalf. Why do I not qualify for the position of Wrath (or do I)?”
You do entail wrath within you Nofre, as you do deliver vengeance in the names of women or for your own pride. On some levels you would be able to qualify for the position of Wrath, yet you lack one major thing that is crucial to truly understanding Wrath. That Wrath, the actual actions and emotions, the cycle, effects everyone and does not discriminate at all on the chosen form or level of Wrath. Wrath is shown in different levels, ways, and disciplines. You deliver Wrath to women, but probably never for a man. Wrath does not discriminate when it comes to its chosen form, be it berserk or cold and calculating. An Apostle of Wrath should not hold any preference for whom they think holds a more wrathful nature in gender. Wrath does not judge others disciplines forms of wrath, without knowing them or opening up to them. How can more wrathful ways be passed to others, if that were so? The Apostle of Wrath needs to be able to take in others forms of Wrath, you may not like them, but you accept them and try to understand them. Not writing them off or closing your mind. Always keeping in mind that Wrath knows no gender. Wrath is the one that gives these feelings and ideas to mortals.
Anyone can deliver wrath, hell I’ve said we all have it in us. Yet you need to truly embrace Wrath on many different levels, lived it, experienced it over and over. Be open to all forms of wrath without dismissing that it is only anger or blind rage, that don’t count as wrath. Wrath has forms of blind anger and rage, they are as much a form of wrath as a cold stare. Only by accepting that there are many forms of Wrath and no certain one is “TRUE WRATH” then you truly understand Wrath. Wrath encompasses all. You fit Darkness to perfection, Nofre. For Darkness shrouds the mind and harbours the feelings and points the vindictive nature in one direction. You work well with individual cases, to close their minds more. I see your character lying here. You have wrath, but not it’s complete understanding.
Nofre’s follow up question:
How would you further the actions of the eleven Apostles who serve alongside the position of wrath?
As Cougaress believed she was mistaken with how her answers were interpreted, this is so with this question. May I say that EDP asked the relationship that Wrath has with the other Apostles, and I said “This is how I believe Wrath should work with each of the Apostle positions, close net with the other sins in a steady line towards the end.” As the sins each lead to one another, Wrath is part of that steady line…Near the end. I did not say that Wrath was to be the one that other apostles should be subservient to, just that Wrath is near the end. I noticed that you thought that there is hierarchies within the Apostles, that there was different levels and the top 5? **raises a brow** I see that this could be a bit true, but still no Apostle is less important than another. Wrath may be like part of a task force , but it is because of the type of sin Wrath represents.
All the Apostles need to work together to bring in the souls, and the possibilities that can be presented can be immense
Anyway, in my explanations I related Wrath as like on the receiving end of most sins, but I have said where it does lead to other sins to amplify them. Wrath is near the end of the line But here is how Wrath would help to further to the other Apostles, I shall remain brief by just quoting mainly:
Evil- “This communication I speak of relates to how Wrath must be to Evil. Tight communication and almost woven with ideas shared.”
“The relationship to do our job right and effectively is honouring her. Some other things that I noticed Wrath would do for Evil is you must hunt out all that oppose us, spy and report back what you find to her. Wrath must be the ultimate upholders to the CoED's pride with the pairing alongside Envy and Pride. It’s like a tag team effort. Wrath would seek them out and find out ways to tear them down, Envy would rub it in their face and gut them apart as well, like in the recent Nether Crap incident and Pride would aid in both”
Death- “Death can also easily bend and snap those whom Wrath's victims have been. Meaning those that have been on the revenge receiving end. They can be so destroyed inside that Death can convince them to commit suicide. Even in the event that they may lead to overdosing on drugs or jumping from the roof. Another of Death's methods. There are many things that Wrath can lead others down towards Death's doorstep. More over Murderers and Suicides. Wrath acts like a step before this Apostle as all the other Apostles do.”
“By this all the Apostles should have respect for him as well as aid as best they can to quickly bring about the destruction of the soul.”
Dread- “. As well once Wrath is done with them, the victims of wrathful souls can be put into fear and worry. Worrying about when the next revenge plot that will hit them.”
“Another way on a larger scale that Dread and Wrath could work together is war and battle wise. A nation is being attacked with bombs and terrorists methods, brought on by the racist and hatred found in Wrath. The nation under siege is now in the shadow of Dread. Dread can work a looming fear, chaos and worry through the masses. Wrath can aid this then, making them turn to hate themselves. Burning with the passion to destroy the opposition, crying for blood.”
Sloth- “The Apostle of Wrath could work with the Apostle of Sloth to bring about fiercer nightmares in the minds of the victims of both Sloth and Wrath or any for that matter.”
“Sloth could also benefit from Wrath's victims. As they could come out battered and bruised from the path they chose. Sloth can take away more of their drive to do anything and maybe even turn them into vegetables; not doing anything. In the end they are dying pathetic, landing them in Hell. They have been rendered useless within the topside world. Wrath has sucked them dry of hope, and Sloth can use its abilities to take away all the ambitions and any spark of hope or desire to do anything anymore.”
Gluttony- “This Apostleship can work before or after with Wrath. Wrath's relationship to this sin is that the victims of Wrath can turn themselves back to depression. With depression brought on by Doom or Dread, they lead to Gluttony. This is a tight worked system”
“Take this example in hand: A mother has tried to become pregnant with her husband for so long now, she does and is quite larger, her husband pokes fun of her size, she gets a bit hurt by this. The baby is born, and she still is a bit overweight, and she can’t seem to shed the pounds afterwards. She remembers the words her husband had said and takes a personal wrath trip. She begins to hate herself. She stops exercising and begins to eat more things to drown in her sorrow, Doom now on her doorstep. Wrath was that self loathing. She consumes more and more, Gluttony. So in the aftermath, Wrath aids in providing more souls for the other Apostles to corrupt in their own images, through it’s own work on it’s corrupted souls”
Greed- “If my wraith system is implemented, I could work with the Apostle of Greed to help aid the corruption of the souls faster to move towards committing themselves on the path of revenge and greed at the same time”
“Greed can benefit from Wrath as some of of Wrath’s souls can be spurred so much so that they can become selfish and greedy. They want more to glorify themselves. Why stop with only one soul? Greed digs into the mind of the soul with Wrath and fuels them with more whispering lies of suggestion to find that which they truly crave”
“. It’s both Greed and Wrath intertwined. She only wants him materialistically, not for his suffering.”
Pride- ” Is one of the front liners along with Wrath when it comes to the deadliest of sins and upholding the CoED for the Master Apostle”
“Wrath offers that net to regain their power and pride. It's all in the name of retribution, or regaining your pride back. Once that is established, Wrath can pass these victims on to Pride again. To the point where their head is so filled with themselves, they'll lose all reason or fall again; easy prey for Wrath or Doom.”
“Without Pride Wrath cannot be.”
Darkness- ‘As Wrath would pass it's victims to Darkness, either further leading them towards suicide or depression.”
Doom- “, Doom can influence those souls that have been wronged by Wrath's souls. Make that fear and loathing work for them. Murderers, the creation of Wrath can instil the sickness of Doom into the murder victims; that gripping sense of one's own impending doom. The homicide victims through the whole ordeal could be feeling immense pain and suffering as well as fear and terror. Dread comes in here. Yet the sorrow and misery within the victim is present too. Crying and beginning not to be killed. This angle of the relationship works with Death as well. It's a relationship that works to help easier fall the victims we are trying to push into the fires of Hell. It is amplified hopelessness once Wrath is done with them, passes them to Doom. Doom can also before hand amplify the feelings of sorrow and they were wronged, making them easier to infest with anger.”
Envy- I said that Envy is the leader to Wrath, and most of the time this is the case. As Envy has more influence on mortals more often than Wrath. People become envious easier than becoming enraged. I guess, if one sin leads to another there is a scenario of Wrath to Envy. Wrath’s aftermath effects on certain souls can leave them envious of how another got the best of them, made them look like a fool. The fact they are becoming overwhelmed with the thoughts that they will not fit in or that they want what their opposition has is just one way which Wrath can work to further Envy.
Lust- “In Wrath coming before Lust, either the victim or the ones hurt by Wrath can be passed to Lust. Through revenge brought on by Wrath, the ones who have fallen victim of the revenge are in a weakened state. Their minds are easily bent towards getting pleasure and finding something they really desire.”
Like I said, Wrath is near the end of the chain of sins, as they lead to one another. The examples I gave showed how the others lead to Wrath, and Wrath highly respects these as they are the ones who make the position what it is. Without these apostles…there would be no wrath. In a sense, Wrath is subservient to them always, for it needs them in the end.
