† KJV † Genesis 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.Genesis 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Genesis 18:26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
Genesis 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
Genesis 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
19:10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
19:11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the groundGenesis 19:28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.
WHEN talking or debating about the homosexuals, it is best to let the word of God speak for itself on the matter.
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Leviticus 18:26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
18:27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)
18:28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
18:29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.Deuteronomy 7:26 Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing.
Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
Deuteronomy 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
Deuteronomy 25:16 For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the LORD thy God.
Deuteronomy 29:23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:
Deuteronomy 32:32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:
Judges 19:21 So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink.
19:22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.
19:23 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.
19:24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
19:25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go1 Kings 14:24 And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
1 Kings 15:12 And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.
Kings 22:46 And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.
2 Kings 23:7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.
Isaiah 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
Isaiah 3:9 The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.
Jeremiah 23:14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.
Jeremiah 49:18 As in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD, no man shall abide there, neither shall a son of man dwell in it.
Now that is to those still under the Hebrew/Jewish Laws decreed by God through Moses and other Holy Prophets. "Jews". As a Christian, Jesus Christ has of course fulfilled the law for me, through love. But I am to still believe and heed the warnings as are you. Here is what the NT says on the matter at hand.
Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1 Corinitains 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
YOU think I judge them, or you. Better read what Father tells me to do about the homosexual, lest ye judge me without merit.
Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2:2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
"That doesn't say I am not to share with the world what the word says about same sex coupling. Nor does it mean, that I hate gays, I know many gays"How could you not in this world" and they know my bible beliefs, and know I have no ill will toward them what so ever. They also know that I believe that if they don't change their ways, they very well 'Might!' find themselves burning in hell.Do I think all gays will burn in hell, no. This is what Father has left me, about just how I am to treat the homosexual. Not to judge them, or I by default become one of them. Why, BECAUSE God says so, of course.Now if i believe God will hold me to that, then I of course also believe He will hold them to what He has declared to be their fate if they do not repent of their rejection of Him."
Natural Selection, in evolution, is the process by which environmental effects lead to varying degrees of reproductive success among individuals of a population of organisms with different hereditary characters, or traits. ( That cannot advance with homosexual acts ) Natural Selection vs Homosexual Acts
The characters that inhibit reproductive success decrease in frequency from generation to generation. The resulting increase in the proportion of "reproductively successful individuals" usually enhances the adaptation of the population to its environment. (By that, Homosexuals are not allowed to proceed, a weeding out if you will )
Natural selection thus tends to promote adaptation by maintaining favorable adaptations in a constant environment (stabilizing selection) or improving adaptation in a direction appropriate to environmental changes (directional selection). Charles Darwin and Alfred Wallace first proposed this concept in 1858.
Darwin offered that through natural selection within a given population in a given environment, certain individuals possess characteristics that make them more likely to survive and reproduce. ( That cannot be accomplished by homosexuality..... Homosexuals cannot pass on their characteristics. )
These individuals will pass these critical characteristics on to their offspring. The number of organisms with these traits increases as each generation passes on the advantageous combination of traits. (Again, this can not be done by homosexual acts!)
Natural selection is tied to traits that organisms pass from one generation to the next. (This statement by lord Darwin, alone, makes homosexuality against the very nature of natural selection and evolution! )
Outmatched, individuals lacking the beneficial traits passed on by reproduction gradually decrease in number. ( If you are not passing on traits, to offspring, you are against the very essence of evolution! )
I'm am not debating evolution but that the act of homosexuality is against the very nature of evolution because its against the very nature of natural selection, natural selection could not processed without off spring! Homosexuality doesn't promote the passing of the genetic information to the next generation.Now some do bring up the fact that now a homosexual can bare off spring, by way of embryo biopsy ( in-vitro fertilization ) but this itself is against the very process of natural selection. If man is altering the process, by doing such an act, he is admitting that the process is not worth the paper it is wrote on.
"Here is what I myself know of homosexualism"
I was on a prison block, a prison that most feared back in the day... Ferguson, by Midway Texas. A bad place to be in a time when the prison was trying to turn from their old ways into the new... at this time stabbings, fightings and riots were rife
I myself had found I couldn't get along with others and was placed on a cell block that most tried their best to stay clear of. At this point in my life I just didn't care. In fact I knew my fighting would wind me up on one of these blocks. Cell block K. I awoke one morning, early, my eyes watering badly, at first I thought it was another riot and they had shot pepper gas, until I heard the slapping. It sounded like someone was slapping someone else on the butt. My eyes, oh I can still feel the burning to this day, they ran fast with water.
I knew the story of the two next door, one an old con... 25 or so, young by age but old by time, 8 years or more already under his belt. And his new cell"mate". A young black man carrying a sentence of 45 years. He would have to do 1/3 of that even to come up for parole. Then the smell hit me like a ton of cow manure. You could here the others, shouting, yelling for him to put it hard to his more then willing new cell"mate" I could feel the evil, thick in the air, not waning at all.
Then I could hear slapping coming from another cell above me, and another, till half the block seemed to be doing the same in a wild massive frenzy. It was as if something wicked, an unseen force had come in and taken over the whole block. They were feeding off each others sin, and willingly flip flopping and taking turns till the whole world itself seem to be filled with the stench of nasty wickedness. Now you weren't there, you don't know, but me and others like me talked the next day, and there was no doubt in our mind, that evil had taken its toll on that block, that night, and then moved on... where it is now, only God knows.
Now I had been aware of the gayness while there, and there was no need for rape, heck there were so many "punks" up there some of them couldn't give it away. Even some guards were engaging in the act, but I'm telling you, on that block, on that night, evil run amuck, driving these beast into a sick frenzy of abominations! It wouldn't have mattered what abomination it was either, the point is, whether it was homosexuality, or ramped murder, or a host of other things, it was the fact that they got so overwhelmed with evil."
DEBATES ON THE MATTER
[kingjehu] heck you cant even say "God doesnt approve of homosexuals and they might burn in hell if they dont change their ways" in Canada Tpo1, its a hate crime now. . . .
[mabus] jehu...canada is obviously an advanced country
[kingjehu] mabus, yes, after all, i mean you dont believe in a God so it really bugs you that people say a fake God is going to throw you in hell for being a homosexual
[mabus] jehu..if i was gay it might bother me yes
[mabus] heh
[kingjehu] mabus, why?
[mabus] jehu...why what?
[kingjehu] it would be like saying the easter bunny was going to throw all hetrosexuals in hell LOL
[kingjehu] why would it bother you!!! if there is no "god" why care what people say he thinks?
[mabus] jehu... no one really gets offended by the easter bunny... but being condemned by people.. is always offensive of course
[kingjehu] mabus, no one said anything about people
[mabus] jehu... but people are the issue
[kingjehu] you need to try to stick to the topic this time mabus
[kingjehu] no, they arent heck you cant even say "God doesnt approve of homosexuals and they might burn in hell if they dont change their ways" in Canada Tpo1, its a hate crime now. . . .
[mabus] jehu...atheists are not offended by what god would do.. but by what people say god would do
[kingjehu] that's the issue
[kingjehu] and if God isnt real!
[kingjehu] why care!
[kingjehu] Laughs Out Loud
[mabus] if god is real or not it's irrelevant
[kingjehu] :P
[kingjehu] why
[mabus] jehu...when someone says something like that..they are promoting hate
[kingjehu] if he's not real, then you dont go to hell
[kingjehu] no they arent
[mabus] going to hell is not the issue
[mabus] the hate is
[kingjehu] that's dumb
[mabus] well you're free to think so
[tpo1] mabus, how do you define what 'promoting hate' is?
[kingjehu] I tell my OWN brother if he doesnt change he is going to hell, and he knows I dont hate him
[kingjehu] ssshhhhh
[mabus] tpo...well..saying that people are so vile and evil that they will go to hell..certainly qualifies
[kingjehu] its out of LOVE
[mabus] as hate mongering
[tpo1] i mean, you just make it up, something someone sez that you disagree with is 'promoting hate'?
[kingjehu] we dont want them in hell
[kingjehu] thats hate?
[kingjehu] that we dont want them in hell is now hate?
[kingjehu] wow
[mabus] jehu...no...that you think they wil go to hell..that you disrespect them that much
[kingjehu] ddidnt know that because you cared about someone so much you didnt want them to burn in hell was a hate crime
[mabus] jehu..man you really are obsessed with god..it's like thats all you see
[kingjehu] mabus, how is it disrespect if their is no god to judge them and how is me quoting the bible disrespect?
[kingjehu] answer the question
[mabus] jehu..because YOU are judging them
[massinissa] KingJehu, you are obsessed with God now? Good for you!
[kingjehu] how so?
[mabus] for the fourth time
[kingjehu] read the STATEMENT!
[kingjehu] SSSHHHHH!
[massinissa] mabus, bingo. Finally. Sheesh.
[mabus] i did read the statement..and i replied to it
[mabus] and i replied again
[mabus] and again
[mabus] and a fourth time
[mabus] i can mime it if you like
[mabus] mass..what of it?
[kingjehu] heck you cant even say "God doesnt approve of homosexuals and the might burn in hell if they dont change their ways" in Canada Tpo1, its a hate crime now. . . . <------ how is that ME judging anyone???
[massinissa] Mime! Mime! I like miming
[mabus] jehu...i'm speaking about people who say gays will go to hell
[kingjehu] heck you cant even say "God doesnt approve of homosexuals and they might burn in hell if they dont change their ways" in Canada Tpo1, its a hate crime now. . . . <------ how is that ME judging anyone??? YOU said i was judgin them now show it please?
[tpo1] the speech codes bother me a lot more than the same sex marraiges
[kingjehu] [mabus] jehu.. because YOU are judging them
[kingjehu] right there
[kingjehu] now EXPLAIN how i judged anyone?
[mabus] jehu..sixth time..i am talking about people...saying that gay people are so vile and evil that they will burn in hell
[mabus] if you can't see why...so be it
[17:06] *** mabus was kicked by KingJehu (KingJehu)
Rule 8 - Trolling, baiting, goading, ranting and/or any other means of disruption will be dealt with immediately. This is a debate channel...opinions are encouraged...support for those opinions is important for them being received as credible.
Another debate on the subject at hand.
[kingjehu] WHEN talking or debating about the homosexuals, it is best to let the word of God speak for itself on the matter. https://www.angelfire.com/realm/soulseeking0/homosexuals.html
[kingjehu] Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
[kingjehu] Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
[elduran] actually I think when debating homosexuality it's best to examine their chosen liufestyle from a purely objective point of view. Unfortunately this is impossible, as all sides are subjective. However, groups with strong intolerance of homosexuality almost certainly shouldn't be allowed to impose their rules on the homosexuals of the world
[kingjehu] Elduran this is CHRISTIANdebate christian issues of debate. . . everything is taken from THAT perspective in this room
[BroOfAnotherMother] KingJehu Whens the last time you went down to the Jordan river and ritually wash yourself after touching your wife too soon after her period?
[elduran] KingJehu: That's nice
[elduran] But if everyone HAD to agree, it wouldn't be much of a debate would it?
[BroOfAnotherMother] KingJehu :) Great minds think alike
[kingjehu] For the Jews, under the law, the message is clear cut
[G8Summit>]Pertneer correct but the morality of criminality is different. I accept peoople are born gay. I just don't think it should be celebrated
[kingjehu] BroOfAnotherMother, yes. . . . lol Now lets see what the NT has to say about the matter. .. .
[kingjehu] Romans 1:26-28 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[kingjehu] thats clear as to why they are as they are
[elduran] I live in a nominally christian country, however, the religious people here don't try to impose their views on sexuality onto the homosexuals. They may disapprove, but for the most part it's considered to be their own problem, not that of the homosexuals
[kingjehu] God gave them over to it, for their actions against Him and HERE is what God tells me to do about them. . . .
[makor] I dont think any good christian hates homosexuals at all, But the ideology that all is OK that ideology that is being shoved down the throats of us all, that idea that we must believe as they do and think as they do or else we will suffer discrimination is what is opposed. It is a subtle process of socila engineering and it is by law being made a ideological belief system that if one speaks publicly against one is subject to the thought police et etc[19:26] * KingJehu Kjv Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Romans 2:2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
Romans 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?[kingjehu] not to judge them
[kingjehu] know who they are, but dont judge why they are. .. .
[kingjehu] Only God knows what they have done, that makes God turn them over to homosexuality. . . .
The affirmations in the Word of God on the matter of. . .
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