debinmtns from x.x.x.224 joined the chat 4 hours ago
debinmtns: Debi Marik, nw.mtns@yahoo.com, sandpoint,Idaho
debinmtns: I am on my wireless and we having bad weather coming in.
debinmtns: I am the only one here, I am early.
BJ from x.x.x.141 joined the chat 4 hours ago
Phyllis from x.x.x.4 joined the chat 4 hours ago
BJ: beverly june davis  beloyal1@comcast.net  Silver City NM     Hi, I made it!  I remembered!
Phyllis: phyllis rhodes txtwyst@comcast.net deer park tx -- not sure how long i can stay tonight
BJ: How's the weather in Texas?
Phyllis: very nice... chilly, sunny skies today
Phyllis: hasn't rained since last sunday
BJ: nice here in the bootheel of NMexico, also   Mid 60's
BJ: we hope to get some rain
BJ: CA is being blasted right now ~ daughter lives in Sacramento
Phyllis: did anyone do the valentine heart?
BJ: What are you gals tatting on at the moment?
BJ: I haven't been following the lessons, life keeps happening
Phyllis: nothing.. getting ready to throw it all away if i don't figure it out
BJ: LOL   never give up!
BJ: I've been tatting heart after heat from various sources.
BJ: heart
Phyllis: i'm a perfectionist.... and to not be able to GET this... reading pattenrs mainly... is driving me insane
BJ: I still struggle with reading some designer's patterns...but I have their e-mail addys. hehehehe
Phyllis: if i read something... and the drawing doesn't appear to match it.... it throws me completely off
BJ: well, that happens with some designers more than others...
BJ: Tatting can be very forgiving and after you get into it ~ you begin to compensate and adapt.
Phyllis: i have a question...
BJ: yes?
Phyllis: oh wait..do y'all needle or shuttle?
Phyllis: i shuttle
BJ: shuttle only
Phyllis: ok
Phyllis: so... when using two shuttles.... let's say you've made a chain and need to make a ring
BJ: yes?
Phyllis: looking at the thread as it is in your fingers.... hand shuttle thread is on top, shuttle thread on bottom,right?
BJ: Let's call shuttle one (the one in your hand)  and shuttle 2 (the one in the left hand)
Phyllis: ok
Phyllis: when you go from chain to ring, do you put the thread in FRONT of shuttle 2 or BEHIND shuttle 2 thread
BJ: so what I'm reading is....the shuttle 2 thread is in your left hand fingers...and the Shuttle 1 thread is in right...and that thread is on top?
debinmtns: Have either of you done lesson 3 heart?
Phyllis: tried and stopped
BJ: When you switch from chain to ring, point the ring DOWN...THEN  make a regluar ds
BJ: I've done a bunch of hearts
debinmtns: me too, I am needle tatting
Phyllis: ok maybe i am not remembering when i have this problem...l
Phyllis: oh i think it is when you RW
BJ: when you Reverse Work, the ring will be in down position, the next stitch should be made just like a regular ds   snugged up against the ring...no gap
Phyllis: oh geez i can't even remember.  see i can't even explain my problem to get help.
debinmtns: Cl ring, tie, start chain
Phyllis: tie??
BJ: well, yes...close the ring....then ....
debinmtns: Sorry needle tatting
Phyllis: oh ok
debinmtns: cl ring, rw start chain
BJ: yes,
Phyllis: ok so close ring... rw... but then isn't your shuttle 2 thread on the bottom when it should be on the top?
Phyllis: my chains are twisting
BJ: wait  and I'll pick up my shuttles....never thought about it
Phyllis: AFTER i rw
BJ: The thread coming from Shuttle 2 (the ball thread) is on the bottom
debinmtns: I am little differnt, sorry.
Phyllis: after you rw?
BJ: yes, needle is different
debinmtns: I did order DVd for tatting its wonderful for visual
Phyllis: i was doing the awareness ribbon
Phyllis: i would chain.. rw then start a ring
debinmtns: yes
BJ: after you reverse the work and the ring is upside down, the thread in the left hand (ball thread   shuttle 2) will be on the botttom.  Then you do an  under stitch (1st step of ds) and then an over stitch
Phyllis: attach to the last picot... then finish ring... the ds sections were twisting
Phyllis: and the chains were flipping around
BJ: Ok...let your shuttles dangle and unwind...twisting comes from thread needing to relax and straighten
Phyllis: no it's not that
BJ: tension?
Phyllis: when you rw and the threads go from top/bottom to bottom/top...
BJ: perhaps it is too loose
Phyllis: it's right here where i'm having the problem... you have to bring one of the threads around into position on your hand... and the other thread is either in front of it or in back
BJ: yes,
BJ: Well, I'm making chains and rings right now   and when I RW, I'm still holding the thread in the traditional position....and making a regular ds  snugged up against a closed ring
Phyllis: ok sorry i left to take a pic
Phyllis: can i email it to you?
Margaret from x.x.x.204 joined the chat 3 hours ago
BJ: sure
BJ: or you can wait and ask the teacher...LOL
BJ: Hi Margaret
Phyllis: i can't even explain it good enough
Phyllis: to get help
Phyllis: <sigh>
BJ: It is very hard to explain a visual action...not unusual    that's why it is hard to write instructions
Phyllis: which is why this stuff is getting closer and closerr to the garbage can
BJ: no no no
Margaret: Phyllis, take heart, you WILL get it
BJ: take a cleansing breath....lol
Phyllis: no i need a drink! lol
BJ: I really like that Learn to Tat DVD and Book...I taught a friend from church this week and she got the flip in aout 15 minutes    helps to have someone with you and have photos
BJ: I'm going to go look at the picture    be right back
debinmtns: Hi Margaret
Phyllis: did you give me your email?
Pam from x.x.x.68 joined the chat 3 hours ago
Phyllis: oh wait duh
Pam: Hey Folks!
debinmtns: Hi Pam
JaneArmstrong from x.x.x.63 joined the chat 3 hours ago
Phyllis: hi pam
Phyllis: ok bj i just sent it
BJ from x.x.x.141 joined the chat 3 hours ago
Margaret: I am now officially 'old'
Phyllis: uh oh why?
JaneArmstrong: Hello, it wouldn't let me in tonight...
BJ: beverly june davis  beloyal1@comcast.net  Silver City NM
BJ: Why are you old?
Phyllis: i just sent it to you
debinmtns: Why are you old/
BJ: ok  I'll go look again....LOL     I'm 72  and I don't 'feel' old
Phyllis: lol
Phyllis: i'm 44 and feel ancient
Margaret: I am now officially eligible for 10% off at Zellers (large chain department store here in Canada) as I turned 55 todya
Phyllis: lolol
Phyllis: yay!
JaneArmstrong: Happy Birthday
Phyllis: i can't wait to get discounts!
Margaret: thanks, Jane
Pam: Love those "young folks" discounts ;-)
Phyllis: lol
Margaret: several other stores, restaurants and services give discounts at 55
JaneArmstrong: When I turned 55, every speed sign was saying Happy 55!
Mimi from x.x.x.227 joined the chat 3 hours ago
debinmtns: Happy Birthday to you!
Margaret: at VIA train, at age 60, a companion can come along FREE
Margaret: thank you.  Have had a great day so far
Mimi: Happy Birthday Margaret
JaneArmstrong: glad you are back, mimi
debinmtns: Free train ride cool
Mimi: Me too. I missed you guys last Thursday night
debinmtns: Hello Mini
Margaret: I attend a support house for women, 'My Sister's Place'.  The message I gave one staff last week didn't get to the cook, so no birthday cake today but I was given four lovely presents and the cake will be on Monday.  So I get to celebrate twcie
Mimi: It was nice to see the customers of course, but they don't tat :)
BJ from x.x.x.141 joined the chat 3 hours ago
Margaret: Hello, Mimi
JaneArmstrong: :-)
Mimi: Hello everyone
BJ: Oh Good,  ask Mimi your question, phyllis    :>)
Margaret: does Cynthia have power tonight and is she coming?
BJ: Hi Mimi
Phyllis: argh
JaneArmstrong: jane armstrong, chapel hill, nc, stujane82@embarqmail.com
Phyllis: that means i have to remember the question :)
JaneArmstrong: she emailed this afternoon
Mimi: Cynthia was teaching the afternoon class today, so hopefully she's coming tonight too
Margaret: it is above in this discussion, Phyllis
BJ: I looked at the photo and I don't know how you ended up with that...it looks as though you encapsulated your own stitches....
debinmtns: Mimi, I figure out what I was doing wrong.  Now I am going strong.  I was reserving the ring and chains endings.
Phyllis: it seems like it happens after a rw and after a join
BJ: Phyllis is having a hard time wrapping her head around how the threads go... on top or on bottom  or vice versa  after you RW and begin a chain and are using 2 shuttles.
Mimi: That's great news Debi. Good work to get yourself straightened out. It's not easy being self-taught
JaneArmstrong: pass the picture on...maybe we can help you Phyllis
BJ: yes, send the photo to Mimi...
debinmtns: thanks appreciated it
BJ: the book I learned from didn't even have drawings    aghhhhhhh
Phyllis: just sent to jane
Phyllis: email for mimi?
BJ: yes, let her see your interesting delima
BJ: excuse spelling   it's typos
Mimi: ntrop@ix.netcom.com
Phyllis: sent
Mimi: The usual rule for starting the next element is that the needle/shuttle thread and ball thread should not cross each other
Phyllis: that is where the problem is
Phyllis: when you rw how can you NOT have that happen?
BJ: now I understand your question....
Phyllis: because they have to get back in the 'one's on top' 'one's on bottom' position, right?
Linda-S from x.x.x.7 joined the chat 3 hours ago
Mimi: You reverse work to avoid the crossing over, actually
Margaret: in needle, that is after you have put the needle through the 'teardrop'?
Mimi: When you reverse work - that is, rotate it toward you until the side that faced you is facing away, and what was down is up
Phyllis: but when you rw you don't switch which shuttle you are using.. they stay in the same hand, right?
Mimi: what happens is that the shuttle thread will be on the right/bottom and the ball thread will be on the top/left.
JaneArmstrong: phyllis, do you know about "pant legs and belt"
Mimi: So you will use the same shuttle for both the ring and for the chain
Mimi: Right Phillis, stay in the same hand
Phyllis: yes i know about the clothing :)
Mimi: It appears to me that you were using 2 shuttles in the photo you sent?
Phyllis: ok just wanted to make sure i had that part right
Phyllis: yes mimi
Phyllis: that was the awareness ribbon
Mimi: Because somehow you got the core of the chain thread to be one shuttle,and all hte ds's with the other shuttle
Mimi: Actually, the core thread of the chains should be the same thread as made the rings
Phyllis: OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhh
Mimi: That way you will get the nice arcs instead of the twisted look (which you might acutally want but not in this context)
Mimi: Was that a light bulb?
Phyllis: that will probably fix it!
Phyllis: it was a BIG bulb!
Mimi: I hope it does
Phyllis: ok so when making the ring the hand shuttle still goes ON TOP of the hand
Mimi: Margaret - in needle tatting don't reverse until after you have closed the ring (needle through teardrop
Phyllis: not hanging down in front
Phyllis: i think i always had one hanging when i was making a ring
Phyllis: as opposed to having it over my hand
Mimi: When using 2 shuttles one will always be dangling
Mimi: One will dangle from your pinch when you make rings
Phyllis: OMG now i can sleep tonight... and step away from the trash can :)
Mimi: That's the one that you will put over your hand to make the chain
BJ: well that is a relief
Phyllis: and that one should be the hand shuttle?
Phyllis: or?
Cynthia from x.x.x.211 joined the chat 3 hours ago
BJ: hullo Cynthia
Mimi: the one that dangled when you made the ring will be over your LEFT hand
Mimi: The shuttle that made the ring will be in your right hand flipping stitches
Mimi: If the 2 shuttles are not the same color, you might want to put a sticker on one
Phyllis: so they DO move from hand to hand??????
Cynthia: Sorry I'm running late,,,,,
Mimi: At least until you learn to "read" your threads (you will get to the point that you will learn which one should be which)
Phyllis: the shuttles that is?
Mimi: Hi Cynthia, we've been helping Phyliis
debinmtns: Hi cynthia
Mimi: That's right Phillys, but only one will be flipping the stitches of both the ring and the chain
JaneArmstrong: Hi Cynthia
Cynthia: great I was reading along....
Mimi: So when you start, put a sticker on the shuttle that donated thread to go over your left hand and stayed in your right hand to flip the knots
Cynthia: keep going and I'll chime in...there are 2 more who want to join and I'm getting their info
Mimi: After closing, you'll reverse work. The non-sticker shuttle will donate its thread to go over your left hand
Mimi: And the sticker shuttle will be in your right hand flipping the stitches
Phyllis: and which one makes the rings?
Mimi: STICKER
Cynthia from x.x.x.211 sent out 1 invitation(s) 3 hours ago
Phyllis: ok
Phyllis: and one will be OVER my hand when making rings? or hanging down in front of everything?
Phyllis: i am SUCH a visual person this is killing me :\
Mimi: THE ONE OVER YOUR HAND WILL BE THE ONE FLIPPING THE STITCHES
Mimi: LET ME THINK IF THERE'S A VIDEO WHERE SOMEONE USES 2 SHUTTLES TO DO RINGS/CHAINS
BJ: over your right hand,  right MImi?
Phyllis: when you say flipping the stitches, do you mean the color that you SEE when they are flipped?
JaneArmstrong: mimi has described it well for you
Phyllis: yes but my brain is very slow these days
Mimi: NO, THE COLOR FOR THE STITCHES COMES FROM THE THREAD OVER YOUR HAND
JaneArmstrong: i will look on the web, mimi
debinmtns: Question: Are there any other kind of needles for tatting besides nickel plated?
Mimi: FOR THE RING IT'S COINCIDENTALLY THE SAME
Mimi: FOR THE CHAIN, IT'S THE COLOR OF SHUTTLE 2 (NON STICKER SHUTTLE)
Mimi: BASICALLY, SHUTTLE 2 IS A HOLDER FOR THREAD. IT COULD BE A BALL IN THIS PATTERN AND YOU'D BE ABLE TO TAT
Mimi: SHUTTLE 2 WILL DO THE MOST DANGLING
Cynthia: there is another way to think of the rings off chains as floating rings....we had a good way this afternoon.  I'll see if I can find it brb
Mimi: IT WILL NOT BE GOING OVER/UNDER TO FORM THE DS'S
Mimi: THESE COMMENTS REFER TO THE RIBBON PATTERN
Mimi: TONIGHT WE WILL SEE A PATTERN WHERE SHUTTLE 2 WILL BE USED TO FORM A RING THAT'S ABOVE A CHAIN
maria a. from x.x.x.136 joined the chat 3 hours ago
Mimi: BUT FIRST LET'S GET SIGNED IN
JaneArmstrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljXBGDVwEIU   here is a good visual that may help you
maria a.: Hi! everybidy
BJ: beverly june davis  beloyal1@comcast.net  Silver City NM
Mimi: Mimi Dillman, ntrop@ix.netcom.com, Snohomish, WA
Mimi: DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE QUESTIONS REMAINING FROM LESSON 2?
Pam: Pam Crane, Morganton, Georgia, pamcrane@tds.net
debinmtns: Debi Marik, Sandpoint, idaho, nw.mtns@yahoo.com
maria a.: maria alcantara: malcantara53@yaahoo.com; mexico
Phyllis: phyllis rhodes txtwyst@comcast.net texas
JaneArmstrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuEKB1_8-r8
Cynthia: Cynthia Stevenson brasthatfit@yahoo.com Stillwater OK USA
Margaret: Margaret I. Boos, maggiep54@sympatico.ca, London, Ontario, CANADA, needle
JaneArmstrong: jane armstrong, chapel hill, nc, stujane82@embarqmail.com
Phyllis: ok that link worked
Cynthia: I have the part we did about floating rings--should I put it on here?
maria a.: not me
debinmtns: question: Are ther any other kind of needles besides nickel plated for tatting?
Mimi: OK THEN TONIGHT'S LESSON IShttp://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/lesson3.html
Linda-S: Linda Harrington, l_m_harrington@yahoo.com, Largo, Md
Mimi: NONE THAT I KNOW OF DEBI- DO YOU KNOW CYNTHIA?
Phyllis: ok i can't stay.  thank you SO much for your help. have to be at the hospital at 5:30 in the morning!  UGH! husband is having surgery so i will have plenty of time to practice!
Cynthia: I've seen some wooden tatting needles and plastic but they tend to break
Phyllis: so time for bed for me!
Phyllis: goodnight everybody
Cynthia: good night Phyllis  check the log later
debinmtns: Good nite
JaneArmstrong: bye phyllis, I hope the surgery is alright
Phyllis: ok iwill
Mimi: MARGARET DO YOU KNOW WHAT RITA'S ARE MADE FROM?
Cynthia: Peace and we'll keep you and hubby in our thoughts
Phyllis: me too.. prostate cancer... hopefully it will be contained and he'll be cured
Margaret: have a good night Phyllis, the tatting will speed the time tomorrow.  Best wishes for hubby
Phyllis: thanks everybody
Phyllis: good night!!
Phyllis from x.x.x.4 left the chat 3 hours ago
debinmtns: I have alot of acid in my body and I am eating the nickel lating off
Margaret: Rita sells the tatting needles from Handy Hands, Inc. so I think they are nickel plated too
Mimi: GALE'S ARE NICKEL PLATED STEEL TOO, RATS
Mimi: SORRY DEBI, ARE YOU ALLERGIC TO NICKEL?
debinmtns: Thanks I will continue to hunt
Margaret: by the way, Happy Birthday to you, too, Debi
JaneArmstrong from x.x.x.63 joined the chat 3 hours ago
debinmtns: N
Margaret: (Feb. 2)
debinmtns: no
Mimi: OK ON TO LESSON 3
debinmtns: That Margaret
Mimi: THERE ARE A LOT OF CONCEPTS IN LESSON 3
Mimi: THAT WILL HELP YOU EXPAND THE PATTERNS YOU CAN DO
debinmtns: were birthday buds
Mimi: THERE ARE LOCK JOINS AND THE SHOE LACE TRIC
debinmtns: I love the heart pattern by Rosiemarie
Margaret: before we start the lesson, does anyone know how I am to get both screens side-by-side on the monitor at the same time?  Someone coached me in the first aft. classs
Mimi: BOTH OF WHICH ALLOW YOU TO TAT IN AN UNUSUAL DIRECTION YET NOT CROSS YOUR THREADS (A NO-NO)
Mimi: I MUST HAVE MISSED THAT LESSON, SORRY MARGARET
Margaret: from the link which Cynthia sent me, it says that needle tatters never do a shuttle join
JaneArmstrong: i have not done side by side only bi level
debinmtns: Yes hit the middle box in upper left corner.
Cynthia: Margaret make your window  narrower for both and you should be able to get them side by side
Mimi: NEEDLE TATTERS PROBABLY CAN AVOID THE LOCK JOIN
Margaret: Cynthia, how do I get to the edge that is covered up by theother side?
Mimi: BECAUSE THEY CAN PASS THEIR NEEDLE THROUGH THE PICOT - SHUTTLE TATTERS CAN'T
debinmtns: Sorry upper right
Mimi: BUT
Mimi: CYNTHIA, HOW DO YOU LOCK IN THE PREVIOUS CHAIN BEFORE MAKING THE NEEDLE JOIN?
Cynthia: brb my messages are flashing someone needs help...
debinmtns: Sorry upper right
Mimi: TO PREVENT FUTURE CHAIN TENSIONING FROM PULLING PREVIOUS CHAINS OUT OF SHAPE?
Mimi: THAT'S WHY I LIKE HTE KNOTTED NATURE OF THE SHUTTLE TATTER'S LOCK JOIN
Margaret: the link does mention lock stitch and passing the thread from the eye over the needle and passing the needle through
Mimi: SO YOU ARE MAKING A LOCK JOIN, JUST IN A DIFFERENT WAY.
Mimi: ?
maria a.: I make it mostly the same...
debinmtns: sorry on wireless
Margaret: Freedman calls it lock stitch and says there is a difference between that and shuttle join
Margaret: shuttle join has never been done by a needle tatter he says
Mimi: WELL NO SINCE THEY DON'T USE A SHUTTLE :)
Margaret: LOL
Pam: I locked my stitches somehow with my needle tatting, but I'm not sure I did it correctly
Mimi: DOES IT LOOK RIGHT TO YOU PAM?
Margaret: Freedman says "pulling the needle thread up through the picot, and passing the needle through the loop formed"  What is the needle thread? the part of the thread through the eye of the needle?
Mimi: RIGHT MARGARET
Pam: I did Rosemarie's heart and had started it before this lessons and couldn't get it to look right. It turned out pretty nice tho once I took time thru this lesson
Mimi: AND WHAT YOU TYPED IN DESCRIBES THE SAME STRUCTURE AS THE SHUTTLE LOCK JOIN
Cynthia: the link is in the lesson, for everyone.  I think we are getting bogged down in words and forgetting the concepts
Mimi: BECAUSE TO MAKE THE LOCK JOIN YOU PULL THE THREAD ATTACHED THROUGH YOUR TATTING IMPLEMENT OF CHOICE
debinmtns: Pam, if you are a visual person, get the needle tatting DVD you will love it,
maria a.: I sue the needle the same way i use the shuttle
debinmtns: ilove that pattern
Mimi: THEN PUT THE TATTING IMPLEMENT OF CHOICE THROUGH THE LOOP OF THREAD THAT IS COMING OUT OF THE PICOT
Mimi: THAT'S WHY I PREFER TO CALL IT A LOCK JOIN INSTEAD OF SHUTTLE JOIN
Mimi: LESS SHUTTLE-CENTRIC ;)
Mimi: IT IS A PRETYT PATTERN, I'M SO GLAD KATIA SUGGESTED WE USE IT AND THAT ROSEMARIE GAVE HER PERMISSION
Mimi: THE OTHER THING YOU'LL NEED TO MAEK THAT PATTERN IS THE "SHOE LACE TRICK" IF YOU ARE A SHUTTLE TATTER
Mimi: NEEDLE TATTERS DO THE SHOE LACE TRICK ALL THE TIME
Mimi: IT'S HOW THEY LOCK THEIR RINGS/CHAINS IN PLACE
maria a.: ok
Mimi: IT'S LIKE TYING THE FIRST HALF OF A SQUARE KNOT, OR THE FIRST PART OF TYING YOUR SHOE
debinmtns: brb
JaneArmstrong: you almost have me ready to trying needle tatting, too!
Mimi: IN THIS PATTERN IT'S NEEDED AFTER RING D SO THAT YOU CAN FORCE THE CHAIN AFTER RING D TO CURL BACKIN THE DIRECTION OF THE PREVIOUS WORK
Mimi: INSTEAD OF TRAVELING ON
Mimi: HAS EVERYONE SEEN THE PATTERN? http://www.ringoftatters.org.uk/seasonal/valentine/rpheart.html
Mimi: SO APPROPRIATE FOR THIS TIME OF YEAR
maria a.: i finish mine with shuttle, iŽll try it tomorrow with needle
Mimi: GOOD IDEA MARIA
Margaret: k
Mimi: THAT'S HOW I LEARNED TO NEEDLE TAT TOO - I THOUGHT ABOUT HOW THE SHUTTLE WOULD HAVE DONE IT AND TRANSLATED IT TO NEEDLE
Mimi: OMETIMES IT'S NOT THE CORRECT WAY TO THINK
debinmtns: I love it so much
Mimi: FOR INSTANCE I OVERCOMPLICATED SPLIT CHAINS FOR MYSELF I LATER FOUND OUT
Margaret: when I put the thread from the eye through the picot and forced it next to the stitches alrady on the needle, I have a line of thread going across underneath the needle.  Is this right?
Mimi: BUT AT LEAST YOU HAVE THE BASIS TO KNOW WHAT THE TATTING SHOULD LOOK LIKE AND A GUESS HOW TO GET IT THAT WAY
Mimi: SO ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE HEART, LOCK JOINS, SHOE LACE TRICK?
maria a.: few inconvinice
maria a.: not me
Mimi: NEXT PART OF LESSON 3 IS 2 COLOR TATTING
Cynthia: yes margaret that happens
Margaret: yes, I can't seem to get this right.  I have a line of thread on top the completed chains and underneath the needle
Mimi: YOU'VE PROBALY DONE 2 COLOR TATTING ALREADY
Mimi: WHEN LEARNING - IT HELPS TO HAVE 2 DIFFERENT COLOR THREAD TO SEE WHICH THREAD IS DOING WHAT
Mimi: (AND HELP SHUTTLE TATTERS UNDERSTAND WHEN THEY'VE FLIPPED OR NOT)
Cynthia: margaret I'll try it after class and we can chat...and I can figure out how to tell you what to do...my mind is a bit slow tonight..
JaneArmstrong: and the difference between ring and chain
Mimi: IS WHAT'S UNDER THE NEEDLE ALSO CONNECTED TO THE NEEDLE'S EYE (NAMELY WAITING TO BE PULLED THROUGH?)
Margaret: now my threads are all backwards -- the thread from the ball  is going inside the thread from end of needle to eye of needle
Mimi: BEST STRAIGHTEN THEM THEN MARGARET
maria a.: is easy for me
Cynthia: hmmmmmmmm I'll work on it
Mimi: IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU MIGHT HAVE RUN THE NEEDLE UNDER THE BALL THREAD
Margaret: the thread from the needle's eye is now at the opposite end of the needle
Mimi: ?????
Mimi: HOW CAN IT BE THERE IF THE EYE ISN'T?
Margaret: maria a. can you help me?
Mimi: UNLESS YOU'RE DOING A TRUE RING MAYBE?
BJ from x.x.x.141 joined the chat 2 hours ago
maria a.: what i do is use only one needle...
Cynthia: easy if you are doing the true ring....I had to struggle to figure it out with the needle
Margaret: I used a crochet hook to loop the thread from the eye end of the needle through the picot and then put the needle through that loop
maria a.: that way is easier to know what colo iŽm using
maria a.: and what i want to do
Margaret: I am using ball and thread technique so SCMR
Mimi: DID YOU DO THAT BEFORE PULLING THE NEEDLE THROUGH THE CHAIN FORMED BEFORE THE JOIN?
Mimi: I RECOMMEND FINISHING YOUR CHAIN -PULLING NEEDLE THROUGH - BEFORE STARTING LOCK JOIN
Mimi: MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE CHAIN TENSIONED THE WAY YOU LIKE IT AS IT WILL STAY THAT WAY
maria a.: no, i make a chain, and when is finish i change color if is needed
Mimi: AFTER YOU PULL THE LOOP OF NEEDLE THREAD THROUGHT HE PICOT AND THE NEEDLE THROUGH THE LOOP
Mimi: PULL THE NEEDLE ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE LOOP AND TENSION UP THE JOIN
Mimi: BEFORE PUTTING THE NEEDLE LBACK INTO POSITION FOR CASTING ON DS'S AGAIN
Mimi: DOES THAT MAKE SENSE MARGARET
Margaret: I looked really closely at my work. -- thread is going from where it left last ring under stitches on needle,  through piot, and up over needle and I stopped
Cynthia: JustinaKnits is trying to find her way in....
Margaret: no MIMI it does not make sense
Mimi: IT DOESN'T MATCH WHERE YOU ARE IN YOUR WORK
maria a.: where i can show you my homework?
Margaret: righrt now I have the picot looped over the needle and waiting for me to add the rest of the ds
Mimi: I'M AFRAID I'M NOT VISUALIZING WHAT YOU DID MARGARET
Mimi: I'M AFRAID YOU MAY HAVE MADE AN ERROR AND NEED TO TAKE OUT AND TRY AGAIN
Margaret: Mimi, could I send you, right now , a scan via email?
Mimi: IF YOU ARE DOING SCMR AND JOINING TO A RING IN THE NORMAL WAY YOU SHOULD NOT BE CASTING ON STITCHES WITH THE NEEDLE THREAD
Mimi: SURE
Mimi: MARIA HOMEWORK CAN EITHER BE EMAILED TO A TEACHER OR BETTER YET, UPLOADED TO THE GROUP'S PHOTO FILES
Mimi: THAT WAY EVERYONE CAN ADMIRE IT
Cynthia: I know what she did...sorry I've been trying to get it to do that...it is harder to do it not standard than it looks
maria a.: ok. iŽll do it tomorrow moening
Cynthia: sorry it looks like I don't speak english....
Mimi: IF YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT MARGARET IT DOING CYNTHIA IT WOULD BE GREAT IF YOU CAN HELP HER
Mimi: THEN MAYBE WE CAN GO BACK TO 2 COLOR TATTING?
Cynthia: I'll try....Margaret can we chat after class or will it be too late
Justina from x.x.x.73 joined the chat 2 hours ago
Cynthia: hi
Cynthia: glad you made it...
Margaret: taking a break to scan and email MIMI
Mimi: WELCOME JUSTINA PLEASE SIGN IN NAME, CITY, EMAIL
Justina: Hi, I made it!
Mimi: AS PHYLLIS MENTIONED EARLIER, ONE THREAD WILL MAKE THE COLOR (THAT OVER THE HAND) AND THE OTHER THREAD WILL BE INSIDE AND NOT SHOWING
BJ: Welcome Justina
Justina: Justina Grafton, WV justinaknits@verizon.net
Mimi: SO THAT SHUTTLE TATTERS WILL FIND THAT RINGS ARE THE COLOR OF THE SHUTTLE THREAD AND RINGS THE COLOR OF THE BALL THREAD
Mimi: NEEDLE TATTERS WILL HAVE THE SAME COLOR FOR ALL I'M AFRAID
Justina: Hi Bj
Mimi: UNLESS THEY MAKE A "TRUE RING" INSTEAD OF THE USUAL WAY OF CASTING BALL THREAD ONTO THE NEEDLE AND PULLING THE NEEDLE THROUGH
Mimi: A TRUE RING IS MADE IN NEEDLE TATTING BY CASTING ON YOUR STITCHES WITH THE THREAD THAT'S ON THE NEEDLE
Mimi: BIZARRE SOUNDING BUT NOT DIFFICULT ONCE YOU GET IT
maria a.: yes
JaneArmstrong from x.x.x.63 joined the chat 2 hours ago
Cynthia: and it uses up thread fast....
Cynthia: or you end up with a long thread that gets tangled
Mimi: THES ARE THE SAME RINGS NEEDLE TATTERS DID TO MAKE HENS & CHICKS AND OTHER SINGLE THREAD PATTERNS
Mimi: THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO "BREAK" THE USUAL COLOR ALTERNATION
Mimi: CAN ANYONE GUESS HOW? (HINT: DID YOU READ THE CANDY CANE TUTORIAL?)
Pam: Cheat and use varigated thread ;-)
Mimi: LOL PAM
JaneArmstrong: :-)
maria a.: you cut  both threads
BJ: SLT?
Mimi: RIGHT BJ!
BJ: :>)
Mimi: FOR SHUTTLE TATTERS THE SLT WORKS JUST RIGHT FOR THE PURPOSE OF CHAINGING WHICH THREAD IS CONTROLLING THE COLOR
Mimi: HERE'S THE CANDY CANE TUTORIAL
Mimi: http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/candycane.html
Mimi: SCROLL DOWN TO THE END TO SEE THE COLOR ARRANGEMENT
Mimi: THE IDEA WAS TO DO A CANDY CANE
Mimi: RATHER LIKE 1/2 AWARENESS RIBBON
Mimi: RINGS AND CHAINS ALTERNATING
Mimi: BUT
Mimi: INSTEAD OF RINGS ALL THE SAME COLOR AND CHAINS ALL THE SAME COLOR - NOT CANDY CANE LIKE AT ALL BUT THE NATRUAL PROGRESSION
Mimi: WE WANTED TO HAVE A RING AND A CHAIN OF RED, THEN A RING AND A CHAIN OF WHITE
Mimi: TO MOCK THE STRIPES OF A CANDY CANE
Mimi: AN INTERESTING EXERCISE BUT MAYBE ONLY TO THOSE INTERESTED IN COLOR IN THEIR TATTING :)
Mimi: ANOTHER CONCEPT IN LESSON 3 IS RINGS OFF CHAINS
BJ: I love color!
Mimi: OOPS FIRST ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT USING 2 COLORS IN TATTING
Mimi: ME TOO BJ
Margaret: I just don't have enough time to try everything I want and I am starting bobbin lace classes
maria a.: no
Margaret: can I do two colours with a needle?
Mimi: I AGREE MARGARET, 48 HOURS IN A DAY WOULD BE NICE
Mimi: YES YOU CAN MARGARET - TAKE A LOOK AT THE CANDY CANE TUTORIAL
JaneArmstrong: good for aging to use all the brain cells in learning new things!!
Mimi: ANITA DID IT FOR NEEDLE TATTERS
Margaret: and I only work spare crossing guard
Margaret: thanks, Jane, LOL
BJ: That's why I stick to tatting....
Margaret: did she use two needles?  can I needle tat with 2 needles?
JaneArmstrong: i'm in the aging field and getting older by the minute, i have to rationalize
JaneArmstrong: :-)
BJ: don't we all?
Mimi: I DON'T THINK SO MARGARET
Margaret: is that the Anita from London, here that gave me the white motif with the blue beads in it?
Mimi: SHE WOULD HAVE HAD TO AVOID SLT'S IN SOME CASES
Mimi: AND ALTERNATE TRUE RINGS AND SCMR TYPE RINGS
Mimi: BUT YES YOU CAN USE 2 NEEDLES FROM TIME TO TIME
Mimi: IN FACT
Cynthia: yes Margaret but it is easier to just  thread and unthread the needle as you go
Mimi: RINGS OFF THE TOP OF A CHAIN IN PROGRESS IS ONE OF THOSE PLACES (IF YOU DON'T WANT TO RETHREAD YOUR NEEDLE THAT IS)
Margaret: Katia did that PDF on how to start a true ring from ball and thread but it didn't have anything about transferring back and forth
Mimi: BUT MOST NEEDLE TATTERS WILL JUST UNTHREAD AT THAT POINT, MAKE A TRUE RING WITH THE BOTTOM FOT HE RING GOING OFF THE TOP OF THE CHAIN, THEN FINISH THE CHAIN AFTER CLOSING THE RING
Mimi: IT'S SAD THAT KATIA WENT AWAY WITH OUT ADDING SOME OF THE PLANNED CONTENT
Mimi: AS THE RESTOF US LEARN MORE WE HOPE TO FILL IT IN
Margaret: where did she go?  Is her son Max okay?
Mimi: I HAVE NOT HAD ANY REPLIES FROM HER SINCE THE END OF LAST SPRING'S LESSONS
Mimi: I'M HOPING EVERYONE IS OK, JUST NO TIME FOR EMAILING
Cynthia: I think we all are hoping for that Mimi
Margaret: Max could have had deep emotional scars from that accident that takes a lot of dealing to cope with
Mimi: IT WAS A SAD ACCIDENT INDEED
Mimi: DID ANYONE TRY THE PATTERN FOR THE ROUND ROBIN CENTER WITH THE RINGS ON THE CHAINS?
Margaret: only with the shuttle in last year's class
Mimi: (SORRY TO RUSH BUT IT'S AFTER 10 - 7 MY TIME)
maria a.: yes wiyh shuttle not needle
Pam: No time for me on the round robin
Margaret: maybe we should push that back to next week?
Cynthia: should we add another class between now and 5 so we'd have 6...we didn't get thru as much this afternoon either
Mimi: For needle tatters, you will need either a 2nd needle to use on what was the ball thread, or you can just thread and rethread your single needle as you switch from one thread to the other.
Margaret: if I have the time, I would like to try both ways
Margaret: I haven't had the time yet to do the communion cloth, either last year or this
Margaret: Mimi and Cynthia, I sent both of you scans of what I was trying to do
Mimi: To form the ring on top of a chain, stop making the chain at the appropriate place. Do not reverse your work. Unthread the needle, and thread it onto the ball thread to make the ring as called for in the pattern.
Mimi: it will be the "true ring" type, casting on with the thread now hanging from the needle
Mimi: after closing that ring
Margaret: am I starting with a cut piece of thread and then going to a ball?
Cynthia: yes but you can just to a scmr instead and eliminate the problem Margaret with the needle
Mimi: you will have started a chain with needle and ball thread, but the ball thread will be cut from the ball when you have to thread it onto a needle
Margaret: I think we need to defer this part of the lesson to next week
Mimi: SORRY LOST MY CAPS!
Mimi: OK, MARGARET - IF YOU HAVE TIME I HOPE YOU CAN RE-READ THAT PART OF LESSON 3 AND SEE IF YOU CAN DO THAT ROUND ROBIN CENTER
Cynthia: that's ok I do it all the time....
Mimi: SO MAYBE IT IS TIME TO DRAW THIS LESOSN TO A CLOSE
Cynthia: Margaret we can chat and I'll walk you thru the round robin center
Mimi: UNLESS THERE ARE SOME BURNING QUESTIONS KEEPING YOU FROM CONTINUING YOUR HOMEWORK OR AN IMPORTANT PROJECT?
Margaret: I have yahoo IM open
Cynthia: I'll be there shortly
Margaret from x.x.x.204 left the chat 2 hours ago
Cynthia: I can't open it and have chatzy up at the same time
Pam: Just a lack of time on my part for not getting all the way thru homework
Mimi: I GOT THE EMAIL MARGARET AND I SEE WHAT IS WRONG
Mimi: OOPS SHE'S GONE NOW
Mimi: CYNTHIA SHE ORIENTED HER WORK INCORRECTLY TO
Mimi: START THE CHAIN AFTER RING D
Mimi: SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN CASTING ON WITH THE WORK BELOW THE NEEDLE INSTEAD OF AVBOVE
Cynthia: everyone look over the afternoon session log...it is great on the floating ring
Mimi: IT HAPPENS TO US ALL PAM
The Online Tatting Class
http://www.chatzy.com/695768390662
Transcript as of Fri Feb  6 05:39:10 2009 GMT (105 KB)
Page 3 of 3 - Char 102467 to 107703 - Newest entries at the bottom
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Mimi: DID YOU DO THAT AFTER I LOGGED OFF CYNTHIA?
Cynthia: ok I'll find her in IM
Mimi: DID YOU SAVE A COPY?
Mimi: MY COPY OF THE SAVED LOG ENDS WHEN I LEFT
Mimi: THAT'S THE ONE I WAS GOING TO POST
Cynthia: yes Mimi no one wanted to leave...yes it is in a word document...I'll send it to you..
Cynthia: would adobe or document be better
Mimi: THANKS I CAN CONVERT WORD TO THE USUAL TEXT AND UPLAOD
Mimi: IN ANY CASE THANKS ALL FOR COMING TONITE
Cynthia: that is easier...it will be on its way mementarily
maria a.: Well....I have to go .Thank you Mimi and Cyntia.Good nigt.
Mimi: I'LL TRY TO GET BOTH LOGS ONTO THE "ARCHIVES" PAGE BEFORE THE WEEKEND
Mimi: YOU'RE WELCOME MARIA HOPE TO SEE YOU NEXT WEEK
Linda-S from x.x.x.7 left the chat 2 hours ago
Mimi: GOOD NIGHT EVERYONE ELSE. THANKS FOR COMING JANE, I HOPE YOU'RE GETTING MORE COMFORTABLE WITH HOW THIS ALL WORKS/
Mimi: ?
Cynthia: Peace everyone and see you all next week.  Justina I'll be sending an e-mail with some info I need
maria a.: iŽll try is hard, and i preferr to read the class when i can...
Justina: bye, thanks for letting me in!
JaneArmstrong: I am not a needle tatter, so not able to participate
maria a.: BI
Mimi: YES IT WAS PRETTY NEEDLE ORIENTED TONITE
Cynthia: maria is language a problem"
JaneArmstrong: is there a way to help both without being too confusing?
Cynthia: somedays it is ...I've got an idean mimi but it needs to work a bit before
JaneArmstrong: both meaning those who shuttle only or needle only
Mimi: WOULD LOVE ANY SUGGESTIONS
Cynthia: yes
Mimi: I'M NOT SURE WHAT I'LL DO IF WE NEED A NEEDLE'S ONLY SESSION AND A SHUTTLES ONLY SESSION... ?
JaneArmstrong: i would be able to help the shuttle tatters, but none were involved that I knew
Cynthia: I need to work on it before I toss it out ...think of 2 sessions...possibly different days....
JaneArmstrong: It would be helpful...promote more communication for the other type
Cynthia: let's let it season a bit...there are others who we can call on
Mimi: MAYBE WITH 3 TEACHERS WE CAN COVER ANOTHER SESSION - WE ALREAYD HAVE 2
Mimi: OK NOT PANIC-ING
Mimi: YET
Mimi: lol
Cynthia: let me work on it for a bit....
JaneArmstrong: I can help with shuttle...it worked alright last week
Mimi: MEANTIME DH JUST CAME HOME
Cynthia: you need to eat...
Mimi: THANKS JANE, DID YOU SAVE THE LOG
Mimi: I FORGOT TO ASK YOU IF YOU DID?
Cynthia: Peace everyone....
JaneArmstrong: night time for me, too no
JaneArmstrong: i tried to save it last week
JaneArmstrong: not sure i retrieved all of it
JaneArmstrong: all the best, email if you have suggestions
JaneArmstrong: nighty night
Mimi: tHANKS JANE, EMAIL THE LOG IF YOU FIND IT AND I'LL POST IT
Mimi: NIGHT!
Mimi from x.x.x.227 left the chat 2 hours ago