Session Start: Thu Oct 09 17:57:59 2008 Session Ident: #tatchat 03* Now talking in #tatchat 12Hi Mimi! Hi everyone and good to see you Wink and Margaret...I'll be right Back--Hi mimi <@pford> Hi 12Got my tea, I'm winding a shuttle, and ready to talk about tatting a while..... 01 Hi everyone! Lots of returning students, and possibly a couple of newbies too! <@pford> I'm one of the newbies 12Mimi- did I ever send you a scan of that sweat shirt wiht the needle-tatted stuff around the collar and cuffs? 01 Yes you did Stephanie, it is beautiful. Someday you'll have weather to wear it :) 12won't be long - I'm in NC, about 5 to 10 degrees cooler than GA year round....and I've been chilly much of the time since I moved here in mid-June! 01 Welcome @pford 01 Honey if you want chilly come on up here - 40F this morning <@pford> Thanks Mimi...glad to be here...I'm excited to tat with you all 12 12Im talking mid 70's "chilly." and 42 here in OK yesterday morning but today the upper 70's 12Y'know....the GRITS version of "chilly." 01 That's right - I know that Fragile Flower of the South kind of chilly :) 12hehehehe.... <@pford> hehehe 12I sure did miss hanging out with you during the summer. 12:-) 03* Tatter281 (Tatter@simplySPACE-A72E958D.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #tatchat 03* Tatter281 is now known as NancyCarol 03* Tatter is now known as Cathy we all missed that all the long summer....the special events weren't often enough for me--Hi Nancy Hi Cathy 12I'm gonna go back to winding more thread on the shuttle.... 12Hi Cathy! Hey Everybody! I've missed you all! 12 I made it before you did!!! 12Hey Nancy Carol 04Hello everyone! 01 Hi Nancy 04Glad you did Wink. we all had a bit of class withdrawal....worse than breaking a bad habit Let me get my font enlarged, etc. It sure helps to read the screen if the font is bigger 12oh, my, yes, doing without tatting class is worse than doing without sugar, caffeine, and chocolate, all at once! 01 Once Nancy can read the fine print, can we have a review of Tat Days this year? Both she and Stephanie went I think? 06We survived 01 Did Cathy get to go too? 12oh, it was totally awesome! 04No, I didn't. 06brb--phone 12I managed to finish all the projects from all my classes before I went to bed the last night 12of course, I won't say how late we stayed up each night.... 12the classes were fun, the teachers were terrific, and meeting people I'd only known "online" until Tat Days was SO cool 01 At least you went to bed... I'm convinced some of those ladies don't sleep! 07I enjoyed 'Fall into Tatting' Tat Days in Cambridge On but found we had too many calsses with too much new stuff to learn 12It was like having 50 or 60 newly-discovered "sisters" (and one brother?) all of a sudden 05OK. Now I can see you. Tat Days -- Fabulous as usual. I felt more at home this year with techniques & patterns 01 It can be overwhelming even for non-beginners too Margaret. I still haven't learned to pace myself for my local workshop 01 That's great Nancy, it's what Georgia and I work for. 12I looked at the classes - the skills you needed to know, and avoided the stuff I knew was more than I could handle (Cluny, for one thing) 05I'll send you link to photos. 01 Hey, you did cluny Steph! 07I am disappointed that no one else is here from London, Canada. I have been spreading the word. Any applications to join from here, MIMI? 01 Thganks Nancy, I' 05Also, I have some fun news in Bham. 01 I'm still waiting for them to publish their annual CD's so I can buy 05I'm going to teach a tatting workshop for the Fiber Guild in November 01 Closest has been Burlington, Margaret, not very close 12I did it after everything was all over with....but didn't take the beaded magnolia blossom class because I figured there was NO way! 12I"m still practicing Cluny, doing a few hanging ones here and there, too. <@pford> 13When Nancy. I'll be in B'ham in November 01 That's great Nancy! 05AND --- some of my pieces are on display with the Fiber Guild in the local library! <@pford> 13That's awesome 01 YAY 06Awesome Nancy 07Burlington is only a little over one hour's drive from here -- close comparied to Washington State 12wow, that's really great Nancy 05I'm definitely a newbie/novice with the weaving, spinning, knitting folks, but I have a unique talent. It's so fun. The workshop will be on Nov 8 01 Well maybe if the Burlington lady cannot connect, or finds self-study difficult, maybe she can go to your guild needle tatting session in the spring 07I have been scheduled to teach NEEDLE tatting at the smocking guild here in which I am vice-president at the April, 2009 meeting <@pford> 03AAAAH....I won't be there until the 17th....sorry I will miss you. <@pford> 03That's great Margaret. 01 OK, it's 10 after the hour so I doubt we'll get more folks. It's time for me to explain for the newbie how things work 12Our local tatting guild will have its 3rd meeting this Saturday.... 07I know the lady who crosses at my corner to walk her grandson home and who would have liked to go to Cambridge may follow along on her own via the newbie site 07with the logs 05Well, maybe we can still connect some way. I'll make note of your email. 01 First, it's better to come a little early for chat, maybe about 10 to the hour so that we can start near the top of the hour 01 The first thing we do for class - when the teacher calls class to order - is sign in, like this 01 Mimi Dillman, Snohomish WA USA, ntrop at ix.netcom.com <@pford> 03That's great Nancy. Thanks 01 Name, location, email address 01 So please let's all sign in 05NancyCarol Bham AL bookjazz #at# yahoo dot c om 04Cathy lucie296@yahoo.com; Athens, GA USA 07Margaret I. Boos, London, Ontario, Canada, maggiep54@sympatico.ca, NEEDLE (I learned shuttle last year) 12Stephanie W ....now in western North Carolina USA, trompeter914 at ...umm...oh yeah! gmail dot com <@pford> 03Pamela Ford, Dekalb, IL, gchild3167@yahoo.com 06Cynthia Stevenson, Stillwater OK USA brasthat fit at yahoo. com 12Looks funny to see Athens, GA and I"m not there. 01 thanks for the reminder margaret - it's very helpful for th eteachers if you indicate if you're learning shuttle or needle tatting 01 sometimes we forget between classes :-( 01 So Pamela, will you be learning needle or shuttle tatting? 12Margaret needle tatting is fun, too. You'll like it! <@pford> 03I know some needle tatting but would like to learn shuttle 06In the advanced class we indicate--when we remember--needle or shuttle or both 01 That's great! All of us here have shuttle tatted so you'll have lots of help 03* Kelly-B (funbrillo@simplySPACE-B17D664B.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #tatchat <@pford> 03Thanks...that's very comforting :>) Hello. 07Are the teachers going to switch to all capital letters? 06and some of us do both so we can help both techniques 01 OOPS SORRY 02* Winkerbill (Tatter@simplySPACE-978725F5.dhcp.hckr.nc.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Tatters 4 forever!) 07hello Kelly B 03* Tatter (Tatter@simplySPACE-978725F5.dhcp.hckr.nc.charter.com) has joined #tatchat 04:) 06YES-- WHEN i GET MY ACT TOGHETHER 03* Tatter is now known as Winkerbill Hey. I was having a time getting on. :-) 12what happened? 01 THE NEXT STEP IS FOR THE TEACHERS TO ASK FI THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS LEFT FROM THE PREVIOUS LESSON 06HI KELLY 01 BUT THIS IS THE MEET AND GREET SO THERE'S NO PREVIOUS LESSON :) Hey Cynthia and everyone else. 01 THE NEXT STEP IS TO INTRODUCE THE CONCEPTS OF THE CURRENT LESSON 06BUT IF DIFFICULTIES GETTING IN THAT CAN BE WORKED ON 07Stephanie, I find needle much easier but am confused. I think Rita Cochrane taught the SCMR first and the book I bought with the set of needles by Barbara Foster teaches true ring first 01 TONIGHT'S LESSON IS http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/meet_greet.html 03* Tatter (Tatter@simplySPACE-B94D4D75.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #tatchat 01 SO TONIGHT THE GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE HAS THEIR SUPPLIES 02* Tatter (Tatter@simplySPACE-B94D4D75.dsl.bell.ca) Quit (Quit: Tatter) 01 UNDERSTANDS HOW TO GET THEM READY - WIND THE SHUTTLE OR THREAD THEIR NEEDLE 01 AND IF POSSIBLE, HAVE THEY TRIED A DOUBLE STITCH YET? I just got my supplies today but studied the lesson last night I will give it a try tonight. 12got 'em! and I've just finished winding the shuttle and tied a weaver's knot and nw I'm ready to get back to it.... 01 TRY IT WITH THE NEEDLE FIRST, KELLY (THE "B" IS FOR BOTH NEEDLE AND SHUTTLE??p) 04Got it all and ready to go. Yes. 01 PAM, ALL READY? 12You're right Margaret - Barbara Foster teaches the true rings first. <@pford> 03Yes, I've got mine 01 HAVE YOU TRIED A DS YET? 01 DS = ABBREVIATION FOR DOUBLE STITCH <@pford> 03Haven't tried a DS yet. 12BUT you need to be aware that once she shows you how to use a ball thread with the needle, she doesn't ever talk about true rings again, and they're not hard to do with ball and ....whatever you call the needle thread. 01 THE DS IS *THE* TATTING KNOT AND IS THE BASIS OF ALL WE DO 01 IT HAS 2 HALVES 01 SILLY OF US TO CALL THEM 2 HALF STITCHES TO MAKE A *DOUBLE* STITCH BUT THAT'S HOW WE TALK 01 I THINK "BACK IN THE DAY" THE 2 PARTS WERE ORIGINALLY THOUGHT OF AS STITCHES IN THEIR OWN RIGHT 01 BUT THEY GET PAIRED UP PROBABLY 90% OF THE TIME SO WE CONFUSE BEGINNERS BY CALLING THEM HALVES :_) 01 FOR NEEDLE TATTERS, A DS IS CAST ONTO THE NEEDLE, THEN THE CORE THREAD DRAWN THROUGH - RELATIVELY EASY ONCE YOU FIGURE OUT 06THEY BECOME STITCHES IN THEIR OWN RIGHT LATER 01 THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FIRST PART AND THE 2ND PART AND HOW TO MAKE THE LOOP 07on page 12, Barbara says "Whenever there are rings and thread spacing in a patttern, or when a pattern calls for one shuttle, you ALWAYS work with a single piece of thread CUT off the ball. 01 FOR SHUTTLE TATTERS, YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO TRANSFER THE KNOTS 01 SHE MEANS THE EQUIVALENT OF SINGLE-SHUTTLE TATTING PATTERNS MARGARET 01 TRANSFER = FLIP = MAKING THE THREAD FROM THE SHUTTLE INTO THE CORE THREAD OF THE STITCH 12like the Hen & Chicks pattern, Margaret - that's what she means by "single shuttle" patterns. 01 IT'S KIND OF ODD SO YOU WILL HAVE TO LOOK CLOSELY FOR THIS CONCEPT IN THE INSTRUCTIONS 07will we be coverning (and in what lesson?) how to convert shuttle pattern to needle patterns and vice-versa? 01 THE SHUTTLE DOES ALL THE MOVING AROUND, SO IT WILL SEEM STRANGE AT FIRST THAT THE SHUTTLE'S THREAD WILL WIND UP BEING INSIDE THE DOUBLE STITCHES 01 INSTEAD OF TIED ONTO THE THREAD OVER YOUR HAND 06YES BUT THEY ARE THE SAME NOTATION AND CONVERT VERY EASILY 01 BUT YOU WON'T HAVE TATTED UNTIL YOU TRANSFER THE STITCH 12I think the "conversion" is usually just knowing how to do stuff - like how to do a join with the needle....things like that. 06RIGHT WINK BETTER SAID 12most patterns convert from 1 to the other without having to really give it any thought. YOu just "do" it. 01 ON THE MEET & GREET PAGE, WE HAVE SOME LINKS FOR YOU SHOWING THE FORMATION OF THE DOUBLE STITCH FOR NEEDLE AND SHUTTLE, LEFT AND RIGHT HANDC 01 SORRY, TYPOS ALLOWED HERE ;) <@pford> 03Yes I saw those. I'm right handed 01 SO THAT'S KELLY'S AND PAMELA'S HOMEWORK: TRY A DOBLE STITCH 06MAKES IT MORE FUN :) <@pford> 03o.k. 12typos? I thought that's how all tatters spelled things. :-) 01 RIGHT HANDED MAKES IT EASIER FOR ME TO TEACH, I'M RH TOO Will do! :-) 04:) 01 2ND HALF OF HOMEWORK IS TO READ THROUGH LESSON 1 BEFORE CLASS 12All the left-handers I know tat right handed, even when I switched hands and SHOWDED them left-handed!!! 01 AND IF YOU LIKE, TRY THE CONCEPTS IN THE LESSON 07I checked out how to load a bobbing and no moving pictures and no mention of 'walking the bobbin" AT ALL 06THE LINKS SHOW BOTH SHUTTLE AND NEEDLE 12One of my lefthanded friends said she thought it was easier to do right handed 12;-) 01 MARGARET, YOU'VE BEEN PRIVILEDGED TO LEARN FROM THE BEST IF YOU HAVE THE WALK-ON CONCEPT ! :) 04It if easiter for left hander's to tat right handed. 01 I DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT IT UNTIL I MET SOME BOBBIN LACEMAKERS 01 IT'S A GOOD PRACTICE TO PRESERVE THE TWIST <@pford> 03What's the walk-on concept? 12i don't have the patience to walk my thread on. I just let the shuttle dangle and untwist every few rings instead 01 BUT NOT EVERYONE DOES THAT - LIKE NANCY :) 01 OR SORRY STEPHGANIE 01 IT WAS STEPHANIE 07you finally got through to me, Mimi, when we decided that it was just like 'walking the dog" in yo-yo 06I JUST MASTERED THE WALKING BOBBIN TECHNIQUE AND IT WORKS SO MUCH EASIER--NOT NEARS AS MUCH UNTWISTING 01 IT DEPENDS ON THE TWIST OF THE THREAD TOO 07that was the hardest concept for me to learn in shuttle tatting -- walking the shuttle 01 IF YOU KNOW ABOUT S- AND Z- TWIST, THEN YOU KNOW MOST CRAFTS INTRODUCE ONE KIND OF TWIST OR OTHER 05If I dangle the shuttle it often gets going too far the _other_ direction! 12Some thread gets more twisted than others, that's true. 06MARGARET--DO YOU HAVE IT DOWN? <@pford> 03What is walking the shuttle? 01 THE WALK-ON IDEA IS TO AVOID INTRODUCING ANY TWIST TO THE THREAD 01 INSTEAD OF WRAPPINGM THE THREAD AROUND THE SHUTTLE 07sometimes I think I am fooling myself as I am trying to walk the shuttle but really I am just winding it because it is tunring on the surface in one spot and not moving across the table 12I stop the shuttle while it's dangling, see if it's "finished" untwisting or not. 01 YOU ROTATE THE SHUTTLE OR BOBBIN TO GET THE THREAD ONTO IT WITHOUT CHANGING THE ORIENTATION OF THE BALL OF THREAD OR HOW THE THREAD IS COMING OFF THE BALL 01 IT'S VERY SUBTLE 06PUT THE THREAD ON A TABLE AND 'ROLL' THE THREAD ON 01 BUT IF YOU TRY THIS WITH A ROLL OF RIBBON, OR A TOILET PAPER ROLL, TRY PULLING OFF SOME RIBBON STRAIGHT UP WHEN THE ROLL IS SITTING ON ITS END 01 YOU'LL FIND THAT THE RIBBON WILL GAIN LOTS OF TWIST VERY QUICKLY 01 WHERE IT WAS FLAT ON THE ROLL! 07I have AERO shuttles (true ones) which have a wide point on the end opposite the little crochet hook. It holds the bobbing and then I use the shuttle to walk the bobbin across the table to wind the thread onto it 12Wow, great example Mimi! I never thought of that! 01 THE SAME THING HAPPENS TO THREAD WHEN THE THREAD IS WOUND AROUND THE EQUATOR OF THE BALL 01 BUT YOU PULL THE THREAD UP TOWARD THE POLE 01 IT CAN CAUSE OVERTWIST - HENCE THE NEED TO LET THE SHUTTLE DANGLE FROM TIME TO TIME 01 OR REMOVE TWIST, WHICH CAN MAKE YOUR PICOTS SPLIT 01 PICOTS = THE LITTLE DECORATIVE LOOPS OF THREAD OUTSIDE THE MAIN KNOTTED LOOPS 12I'm convinced that just the motion from tatting puts extra twist in the thread, too 01 VERY GOOD STEPHANIE, IT DOES!! 12even needle tatting puts twist in the thread, which surprised me a LOT!!! 01 I FORGET WHICH TWIST GETS INTRODUCED, BUT I THINK IT'S S-TWIST? 06BUT A LOT FEWER 01 DO YOU KNOW CYNTHIA? <@pford> 03Oh...I think the twisting is what frustrated me the first time I tried to shuttle....along with not allowing my thread do the imfamous flip 01 I THINK CROCHET COTTON IS S-TWIST 12ummm...it tends to un-twist perle cotton, I can tell you that. 07I will be scanning and sending to MIMI a copy of the form to join "Fringe Element Tatters" - a group connected mainly by the internet. Yearly dues are a minimum of one tatted heart -- if a newbie a 'tatting buddy' can be assigned to tat yours for you 01 TWISTING CAN CAUSE SOME DIFFICULTY IN CLOSING RINGS, TOO 12and perle cotton is an S-twist 01 YOU LEARN EARLY ON WHEN CLOSING A RING TO HOLD THE ENDS TOGETHER WHEN PULLING THE CORE THREAD 01 AND KEEP THEM IN YOUR PINCH 05Oh, YES! Closing rings can be murder if you're twisted up 06NO BUT CROCHET COTTON AND PERLE COTTON ARE SIMILAR IN THE TWIST AND SEWING THREAD ISN'T 01 IT KEEPS ANY TWISTY SECTIONS FAR ENOUGH FROM THE ENTRY PLACES THAT YOU CAN CATCH IT AND PULL IT STRAIGHT 06MAKE THAT THE OPPOSITE TWIST 01 OK THEN TATTING INTRODUCES Z-TWIST... WHICH IS PROBABLY WHY WE LIKE CROCHET COTTON TO TAT WITH 12Sewing thread is a Z-twist, isn't it? 01 OR NOT? 06YES WINK IT IS 07why is this long discussion on twist so important? 06BUT IF IT IS GLAZED THREAD IT WORKS WELL 12I prefer the z-twist, like um....Cebelia, DMC Cordonnet....Flora....Lizbeth.... <@pford> 03Is the craft thread o.k. to work with? 01 BUT MAYBE WE LIKE THE CORDONNET CROCHET COTTON THE BEST SINCE THE INDIVIDUAL THREADS HAVE SO MUCH TWIST THAT THEY CAN MORE EASILY RESIST 01 THE INTRODUCTION OF EXTRA TWIST 01 SORRY MARGARET A TANGENT INTERESTING ONLY TO ME (NOW LEARNING HAND SPINNING) 12Margaret I've found that I like threads with the Z twist and don't like the ones with an S twist....I tend to avoid the S ones. Mimi - I am learning hand spinning too! I love it and now want a spinning wheel. 07if I snail-mailed you my long-haired cats's fur, could you spin it into wool for me? 12LOL! 07I have it in kleenex boxes 01 COOL KELLY. MY JURY IS STILL OUT ABOUT THE WHEEL... WHERE THE HECK WILL I PUT IT??! 06IT IS PERSONAL PREFERENCE AND DEPENDS ON HOW YOU LEARNED TO TAT. SOME OF THE TECHNIQUES ARE EASIER THEN <@pford> 03LOL Mimi - you can always get a folding, portable wheel. ;-) 01 I'M LOOKING AT THE POCKET WHEEL, SO SMALL, BUT I HAVE TO LEARN A LOT MORE FIRST Margaret - I have heard people spinning dog and cat hair before. 07Cynthia, see you in Yahoo IM at end of class? 01 I'M STILL ON LONG STAPLE WOOL, EASIEST 06cRAFT THREAD?--IS THAT A NYLON THAT IS THICKER 06YES MARGARET <@pford> 03No it's cotton and it is thicker...like a size 5 I love spinning wool and am going to try cotton soon but haven't got the nerve yet 01 DO YOU HAVE A BRAND PAMELA 01 IS IT COTTON? 07yes, one person in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada has and mentioned in the article that was written up about her in the Kitchener-Waterloo Whig-Standard newspaper <@pford> 03Yes..it is Prism 01 FAIRLY TIGHT TWIST? 06THAT WOULD PROBABLY WORK IF IT S FAIRLY FIRM TWIST 01 PRISM, INTERESTING, HAVEN'T SEEN THAT ONE YET 06HEARD OF IT BUT HAVEN'T TRIED IT YET 01 I LEARNED ON KNIT CRO SHEEN 12I did too. 01 MADE THE FLOPPIEST DOGGONED STUFF I EVER SAW 05me too! 01 BUT AT LEAST THE STITCHES FLIPPED AND SLID 12we won't mention how mine looked in the beginning.... 01 NEVER COULD GET GOOD TENSION THOUGH 07last year I used good old SOUTH MAID 100% cotton crochet cotton $#10 06GOOD TO START EVEN THO FLOPPY BUT IT DOES FLIP 01 SOUTH MAID IS GOOD TOO <@pford> 03It's a little looser than DMC Baroque 01 PRISM? 01 BAROQUE IS NICE So what are some good threads I got use for tatting. I just have crochet thread size 10 07Rita Cochrane learned to shuttle tat on thread used in a butcher shop to tie the packages of meat -- no slipping htere <@pford> 03Yes the Prism is a little looser than the Baroque 01 CROCHET THREAD #10 IS GREAT TO START WITH 0610 WORKS BUT TRY THE 20 IT IS GOOD TOO 01 THE PRISM LOOKS PROMISING TOO 01 YOU CAN USE PERLE COTON (EASILY FOUND IN CRAFT STORES) 01 BUT USE WHAT YOU HAVE FIRST 12and if you have trouble seeing, try speed-cro-sheen or really BIG perle cotton 06CROCHET 10 MAKES NICE SNOWFLAKES/STARS FOR THE WINTER HOLIDAYS 01 IF YOU FIND YOU'RE REALLY LIKING THIS TATTING THING THEN WE'LL HELP YOU INVEST IN SOME NICE CORDONNET <@pford> 03Prism I would say is similar to Perle Cotton. 12you can work your way to smaller threads as you go.... cool. 05The Perle #5 doesn't behave very well for me --- splitty 01 THERE'S SEVERAL INTERNET VENDORS WITH A RAINBOW OF COLORS 07I am enjoying the Altin Basak 50 (equivalent to tatting 30) 01 YOU'RE RIGHT NANCY, CARE IS NEEDED ON PICOTS 01 ALTIN BASAK IS GREAT, SO MANY COLO(U)RS 12It's hard to see the stitches using perle cotton - they seem to blend together. 01 BUT PERLE COTTON MAKES WONDERFUL SHINY CLUNIES 12I really like Altin Basak thread, too, but can't get it easily (have to order online). <@pford> 03Thanks Nancy...I'll keep a look out as I'm working with this. 06SO SAVE THE PERLE UNTIL YOU GET BETTER AND DON'T HAVE TO UN-TAT SO OFTEN 01 THERE'S A NEW THREADOUT CALLED 'ELISABETH' I THINK 12A newbie might find it hard to use - too small for a first-tatting-experience thread, IMHO 07Rita sells it -- can order by email -- threads@execulink.com She stocks Oren Bayan too 06IT IS NICE BUT SMALL 01 REPLACING OR ENLARGING THE FLORA LINE 12oh, Lizbeth - that's nice stuff, too! 01 THANKS STEPH, LIZBETH 01 HANDY HANDS IS IMPORTING IT <@pford> 03Prism doesn't have the shine like Perle Mimi 12only comes in size 20 ....I got 5 balls at Tat Days....fantastic, glorious colord! 12colors 12;-) <@pford> 03The Prism doesn't have the shine like perle Mimi 01 BUT I'VE SEEN OTHER VENDORS CARRY IT TOO LIKE LACIS AND BE-STITCHED 01 SHINE MAY NOT BE THE BEST FOR BEGINNING PAMELA <@pford> 03Sorry for repeating myself 01 MAY MAKE THE INDIVIDUAL STITCHES DIFFICULT TO DISTINGUISH <@pford> 03Thanks good to know 01 THE MAIN CRITERIA IS THAT IT SLIDES INSIDE THE STITCHES 01 NO SLIDE, NO TAT <@pford> 03ok 05I tend to keep returning to DMC Cebelia and Flora. 07which is the best way to start, MIMI? (or Cynthia) SCMR or true ring? 06NICE TO WORK WITH 12and you want it to be even thickness - no thick/thin places or it won't slide well 07I am working on the bookmark on page 14 of Barbara's book using true ring <@pford> 03I do have some DMC Cebelia in size 30 but I'll work my way to it 06I LIKE THE SCMR BUT HAVEN'T TRIED THE TRUE RING BUT ONCE WITH THE NEEDLE AND GOT FRUSTRATED AND WENT BACK TO THE SCMR <@pford> 03I actually crochet with it. 12ooh thats a nice project, Margaret. I think I did one of those, too. 12I prefer the true ring with the needle 12but I learned from Katia and I think she prefers it, too.... 01 SCMR IS MY RECOMMENDATION MARGARET - KEEPS THE BALL THREAD IN USE SO YOU CAN GET MORE TATTING DONE 07what is the difference? 01 BUT IT DEPENDS ON THE PROJECT YOU WANT TO DO 07to me it is easier to get the rings to close in true ring (needle) 01 TRUE, BUT YOU'LL RUN OUT OF THREAD A LITTLE BIT FASTER 06I'LL HAVE TO TRY IT AGAIN--THAT IS WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS--SWITCHED TO THE NEEDLE THREAD FROM THE BALL 07Steph said that Barbara does not go back to true ring yet she tells when it MUST be used 01 BECAUSE THE RING IS MADE ENTIRELY FROM THE NEEDLE THREAD 07can you tell I have not studied the book beyond page 14? <@pford> 03I agree rings are faster in needle and it does use more thread 01 THE SCMR TYPE OF NEEDLE-MADE RING HAS THE STITCHES CAST ON FROM THE BALL THREAD, THEN PULL THE NEEDLE THREAD THROUGH 06IF JOINS AREN'T A PROBLEM THEN EITHER IS YOUR PREFERENCE 12when you're using the ball and the needle thread, the rings are made with the needle thread, the chains are made with the ball thread 01 ALL YOU USE IS ENOUGH FROM THE NEEDLE TO MAKE THE INSIDE OF THE RING 07I have tried the pattern a few times and ran out of time to really work on it 12that is, when you're doing true rings. 01 EXACTLY CYNTHIA 01 I'M AN END-O-PHOBE MYSELF SO I'M ALWAYS LOOKING FOR WAYS TO PUT OFF THE INEVITABLE 01 :) 06ME TOO:) 01 BUT IT'S NICE TO LEARN THE DIFFERENT APPROACHES SO THAT YOU CAN PICK YOUR FAVORITE 01 EACH WILL HAVE DIFFERENT PREFERENCES 12If I'm doing something with rings and chains and using variegated thread....and I want the order of the colors to be the same through the rings AND chains, I use the SCMR method. 05End-o-phobe! Love that 01 IT'S LIKE PEOPLE WHO KNIT BY PICKING AND THOSE WHO THROW - RESULT IS THE SAME 12But I'd use true rings for everything else and just deal with the extra ends. 01 HWO THEY GOT THERE MATTERS LESS THAN THE RESULT 06JUST DIFFERENT TECHNIQUES <@pford> 03that <@pford> 03that's true 01 OK IT'S GETTING CLOSE TO THE END OF THE HOUR. ARE THERE ANY MORE QUESIOTNS? 07I don't even know what you mean, MIMI, as I do no knitting AT ALL 01 OR QUESTIONS FOR THAT MATTER:) 12picking and throwing? I've been TEMPTED to throw my knitting, but controlled my frustration and just put it down and walked away instead. <@pford> 03lol 05OK for now. Thanks 12Scream and yell a lot, though...and I'm still finishing hte 2nd half of the 2nd sock I started a pair of 2 or 3 years ago.... 12;-) <@pford> 03No Mimi I'm ok...i've got my directives lol. Me too. 06MY MIL DOES THE PIC KNIT TECHNIQUE AND I DO THE THROW--i CAN EXPLAIN IT LATER mARGARET 07MIMI and Cynthia, would you please explain precisely to me which size needle I use for what thread? 12ooh, explain it to me, too, please Cyhthia 01 I THINK BARBARA FOSTER HAS A CHART, LET ME SEE 06THE NEEDLE SHOULD BE ABOUT THE SAME SIZE AS THE THREAD--THE CLOSER THE BETTER 07I have sizes 3, 5, 7, and 8 (from handy hands) 068 IS VERY THIN RIGHT? 063 IS LARGEST 12Barbara Foster has a chart somewhere, but you can often use a smaller needle than the chart says....if i can get the thread in the eye, I'll go with that needle. :-) <@pford> 03I get mine from Handy Hands too Margaret. 06GOOD POINT WINK 01 I COULDN'T FIND A CHART, BUT THAT'S PRETTY MUCH MY APPROACH TOO STEPHANIE 12But if I'm using "rough" sparkly metallic type thread, I'll use a larger needle than the chart says.... 01 I USE SIZE 20 IN HER SMALLEST NEEDLE IN THE 3-NEEDLE SET 07Rita said she has had an extremly small needle custom-made for really small thread eg 100 or 110 01 THAT GIVES ME A NICE FIRM RESULT 01 RITA SURE DOES, SHE SOLD ME ONE :) 01 HERS ARE SHORTER THAN BARBARA FOSTER'S THOUGH 07is it wise to try to use the threader which came in the package with the four needles? 06BUT THE THIN NEEDLES TEND TO BEND EVENTUALLY 01 I'M STILL UNDECIDED ABOUT HOW LONG I LIKE THEM TO BE <@pford> 03I have a chart outlining thread to needle 06YES 12but the really thin needles would be too "floppy" if they were long, wouldn't they? I guess that's why they're shorter? 01 I USE THE THREADERS UNTIL THEY BREAK AND BUY MORE 01 COULD BE STEPHANIE 01 EVER USED A BEADING NEEDLE FOR NEEDLE TATTING? I HAD A PERFORATED FOREFINGER :-( 12ouch! <@pford> 03Ouchie! 06PUT A DROP OF "SUPER" GLUE ON THE BASE WHERE IT JOINS THE BODY AND THEY LAST LONGER 01 YOU'D THINK I'D LEARN, BUT DID I?? ARGH <@pford> 03Who should I send the chart to 01 AH! CYNTHIA, YOU HAVEN'T MENTIONED THE YAHOO GROUP - MAYBE POSTING TO THE FILES SECTION?? 05Good tip about the glue. I'll try 01 IT GOES TO MARGARET PAMELA 06OK GOOD IDEA--NEWSHUTTLESANDNEEDLES 05Cynthia, is the yahoo Group going yet? 01 BUT IF IT'S NOT COPYRIGHT PROTECTED, WE CAN POST IT ON THE BEGINNER'S WEBSITE 07I have that chart that shows thread size down one side and needles going to the righ on the right hand side of the page on page 4 of Barbara's book 01 THAT WAY ALL CAN USE IT 06YES IT IS UP AND GOING BUT FEW ARE POSTING 01 OH THEN YOU'RE OK MARGARET 06YES, MIMI 05Hmmm. Am I signed up? Or do I need to do something extra? 01 KEEP THAT CHART HANDY UNTIL IT'S 2ND NATURE - OR UNTIL YOU'RE TEACHING TOO :) <@pford> 03Yeah Margaret that's the same one I have. 07but it doesn't say what thread to use with what size needle <@pford> 03it's on a bookmark they sent with my needles 06NANCY i'M NOT SURE JUST SEND A REQUEST TO THE YAHOO GROUP AND i'LL GET YOU ADDED 05OK. Will do. Thanks 01 THAT'S newshuttlesandneedles-subscribe@yahoogroups.com 01 ONCE THAT ADDRESS GETS A MESSAGE I just joined! 01 THE MODERATORS GET A MESSAGE TO APPROVE THE SUBSCRIBE REQUEST <@pford> 03I have a book that gives sizes of thread that would correspond to that chart that I could send to you as a help 07I just found the centre piece of the book which had detached itself. Page A says "Needles and Threads -- Finding the Right Size 01 WE STARTED THE GROUP MOSTLY AS A WAY TO MAKE IT EASIER TO GET HOMEWORK PHOTOS UP WHERE FOLKS CAN SEE THEM 06tHANKS--i USUALLY JUST GO TO MY GROUPS AND GO IN THAT WAY. 07page 4 is a comparison of threas <@pford> 03Awesome than your set 01 SIDE BENEFIT BEING THAT WE CAN ALSO CHAT SEPARATE FROM THE OTHER MAILING LISTS <@pford> 03WOOO my spelling :>) 01 THOSE SOUND LIKE GREAT PAGES TO HAVE MARGARET 01 IT'S NOW NEARLY 7 AND I NEED TO RUN 07it is too bad that she added them in the middle with a staple -- fell out 01 THANKS FOR COMIHNG ALL Thanks Mimi! 01 I'LL MISS YOU NEXT WEEK, BUT CYNTHIA WILL BE HERE TO GUIDE YOU THROUGH LESSON 1 It's been fun. 07changing over, Cynthia? 05OK I just sent request to join. 04Thanks, Mimi <@pford> 03Thanks for your time It's been fun I'll send a request to join the group 01 FOR NOW I'LL PUT THIS LOG ONTO THE BEGINNER'S WEBSITE 06be a minute Margaret, I need to brb--bathroom 07Is Katia going to teach at all this year? 01 ON THE 'ARCHIVES PAGE'