Session Start: Thu Jan 24 18:01:26 2008 Session Ident: #tatchat * Now talking in #tatchat 04How dark? David likes the 87% 12and i've got unsweetened green tea....(yechh) 12hi Mimi 13Hi Mimi 07hey mimi Wow, so crowded! Good evening all 12I even like "cooking" 04Hello, Mimi 12"backing Hey Mimi 12" chocolate 12darker the better 13definately 04Better than 87%?? chocolate is chocolate in a chocolate emergency 12well...baking chocolate is unsweetened. 12but in a chocolate emergency, I'll take anything 04He eats that too. 13it needs a bit of mellowing and then it works lol@chocolate emergency 06k My husband asked me one night if I had any chocolate hidden in the house. I just laughed and walked away. 04lol. It can't be hidden from me. 12mine can't eat chocolate....gives him migraines 12I get it all.... 13OOOOOOOOO not fun 13but it is always fun to get to gobble all the goodies sometimes OK, I'm back 07k well, it's harder to hide the chocolate with two kids in the house k 07welcome back Nancy 13How is your Mom, Nancy 12How's your mom, nancy They didn't have all tests, but everything they did have looked good. Thanks Chocolate can give you migraines? 07That is good to hear. 12yes 13Great Nancy Maybe thats my problem, I've been having mega migraines the last while. 13with Migraines you have to figure out what your triggers are 12so can peanuts, hard cheeses,k citrus fruit, ummmm...caffeine....and a BUNCH of other stuff. 12the weather can do it, too.... I may have to go get some mini-chocolate pieces from kitchen after reading all the choco references. 12Certain type of weather triggers migraines Well I found red wine triggers a migraine. red wine does it to me too 12oh, i forgot about that one, yes, it's a migraine trigger, too. 13definately as does lack of water and lack of sleep 12and hormone fluctuations... 13The list is incredibly long I'll have to watch.. and I love chocolate so much. 12tell me about it. I don't know what I hate more migraines or hangovers. 07k 12oh, tyramine (develops in foods as they age) is another migraine trigger, so is aspartame and MSG 13Keep a food log and then you can figure out your own triggers 13and sacarine 06k 12also keep tabs on the weather. 04:) 12seriously, it can trigger migraines, too. and tying a huge snarl that you can't get out when you're almost finished with a piece of tatting I drink diet pops every so often. not sure if that could cause it 13Yes I know...along with perfume and some kinds of incense 12they give me migraines. 07why is it so quiet? 12hey, when you talk about migraines, you got to whisper. 12that's why 12;-) lol 13:D lol Well something has upset me for over a week now. Fibromiagia has really been bad too. 13sometimes my symbols work and sometimes not WELL IN THE QUIET MAYBE WE SHOULD START CLASS. I WAS HOPING KATIA WOULD BE HERE BUT SHE MUST BE DELAYED. PLEASE SIGN IN MIMI DILLMAN ntrop at ix.netcom.com Snohomish, WA USA Norma Betz normabetz at sasktel.net Saskatchewan Canada Nancy Clemmons, Bham, Ala bookjazz at yahoo.com, shuttle 12Stephanie w. wandering around between north GA and western NC 07Robert Lee Foster docfoster7 at gmail.com Walnut Ridge, AR USA Sherree Givens, Hesperia, Ca sherree10 at yahoo.com 04Cathy lucie296 at yahoo.com Athens, GA, 13Cynthia Stevenson brasthatfit at yahoo.com, Stillwater Oklahoma USA both Ellen Dabbs, ki4iye at yahoo.com Bristol, TN USA 06Joy Walsh hobbit68ataol.com Butler, PA USA Terese Phelps-Higginbotham, tpprc at earthlink.net Savage, MN Sona Seun sonaseun at gmail.com Athens GA THANKS FOR COMING, ALL SORRY I HAVE TO STEP AWAY A MINUTE INTERNET EXPLORER WILL NOT START ON MY PC FOR SOME REASON? I HATE TO INTERRUPT MIRC TAKING THE LOG SO i'LL START UP THE LAPTOP BRB k 13c ok q 04c k 06k 04Winkerbill, did you get to N/T today? 12not today Do all y'all know how to enlarge your window and font size? It really helps me on this laptop. 06Maybe while we're waiting, someone could answer my question. 12supposed to go tomorrow mid0day for an hour or two whay Joy 13what is the question, joy 06I know that a traditional join counts as the first half of the ds (shuttle tatting), 04Nancy, see the "font" button above your name? 07just clack on font in the bottom right corner 07then change the number to like 18 06what about the shuttle join? Does it still count as a half stitch? k 13I count it that way 12I was told *not* to count the shutle join at all. Yeah - thanks. I know, just wanted to be sure others knew as well. 06I'm working on a bookmark, and I automatically did not count it, but then wondered if I should. 12I think it's a personal taste thing. but whatever you decide to do, do it consistently how's this 13It depends if it is one where you slip the needle thru then no but if it is like a shuttle join then yes 13consistency is the thing oh wow It's big now, thanks guys 12actually even with a traditional join, some teachers say don't count it as part of the DS, do the regular DS after the join 06Thanks - I planned on finishing the bookmark the way I started. Maybe I'll try the other way on the next thing. 12and OTHER teacher say it takes up space, so you SHOULD count it as the 1st half of the DS 07I just tat with a shuttle. what si the diff between a traditional and a shuttle join? 12Whichever you do, be consistent and it will work just fine. k 12I think we're talking joins tonight, right? 12The traditional join is what we call the "up" join. 06I think so. They're in the lesson. 12a shutt;e join is also sometimes called a lock join....not sure but I think we'll talk about them tonight, too 12Probably better to let Mimi present them in a few minutes, though. 12She's more organized mentally than I am. 12;-) 13the shuttle join and lock join are different ok 07the only joins that I rememebr fromt he lesson are "join" and folded join 12right 13I'm just getting the up and down join figured out. They don't always look quite right yet. 12ill go look....brb I'm back. I apologize for the delay k 07no prob WE REWROTE THE LESSONS AND I COULDN'T REMEMBER WHAT'S ON WORSE 06I don't want to confuse anyone. I think our lesson just has the traditional join and the folded join. THE NEW LAPTOP HAS NO PRINTER DRICER INSTALLED 12Mimi, are we talking joins tonight? We are, right? SO I MAY HAVE TO CROSS THE ROOM FROM TIME TO TIME TO GET HTE WEBSITE =-O 12and are we talking lock joins, too? I THINK FIRST IT'S REVERSE WORK, ROTATE, AND TURN WORK 12and joins somewhere in the middle? 07yes 13I think that may get a bit complex THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONS THIS WEEK FROM NEWBIES TRYING TO GET FROM A RING TO A CHAIN THE ANSWER IS REVERSE WORK WHEN YOU COMPLETE A RING k YOUR SHUTTLE AND BALL THREADS ARE NOT IN THE RIGHT PLACE TO START A CHAIN YOU'D HAVE TO CROSS ONE OVER THE OTHER THAT'S A NO-NO k SO YOU HAVE TO REVERSE WORK 07k 04:) THAT IS: FLIP THE WORK AWAY FROM YOU SO THAT THE BOTTOM OF THE RING BECOMES THE TOP OF THE RING AND VICE-VERSA question, when going from ring to chain do I do a shoelace? WHAT WAS THE BACK OF YOUR RING IS NOW THE FRONT AND VICE-VERSA DO YOU NEEDLE TAT SONA? no shuttle 06k SHUTTLE TATTERS DO NOT DO THE SHOELACE TRICK AFTER A RING AND BEFORE A CHAIN, NEEDLE TATTERS DO * Cathy has quit IRC (Quit: Tatters 4 forever!) thanks (THERE IS A BUT... HERE 2-COLOR TATTING BUT LET'S NOT GO THERE) k SO EVERYONE HAVE REVERSE WORK? (ABBREV: RW)? 13not yet anyway 06yes 07yes 13yes Yes yes yes 12yes yes THAT'S THE ONLY ONE OF THESE WHERE MOST PATTERN WRITERS AGREE ON NOMENCLATUR THE REST OF THE TIME YOU HAVE TO WATCH CAREFULLY yes THOSE OF US THAT FOLLOW GEORGIA'S CLASSES USE THE FOLLOWING 13and read the abbreviation list TURN WORK = TURN THE WORK LIKE PAGES OF THE BOOK SO THE FRONT IS THE BACK AND THE BACK THE FRONT, BUT RING ORIENTATION IS STILL THE SAME ROTATE WORK = ROTATE IT IN THE SAME PLANE (FRONT STAYS FRONT AND BACK STAYS BACK) LIKE HANDS ON A CLOCK ROTATE I LINKED GEORGIA'S LESSON ON THIS TO LESSON 2 SO I HOPE YOU'LL TAKE A LOOK IF YOU DIDN'T ALREADY k 06That page is really helpful. :) IT'S REALLY A MATTER OF THINKING CAREFULLY ABOUT YOUR WORK AND WHERE YOUR WORK NEEDS TO BE WHEN YOU TAT THE NEXT ELEMENT (AND YOUR THREADS TOO) IT GETS EASIER WITH EXPERIENCE 07k SOON YOU'LL HAVE A FEELING THAT YOU SHOULD DO ONE OR THE OTHER A LOT OF US DO IT SO AUTOMATICALLY WE FORGET WE'RE DOING IT AND WRITE PATTERNS POORLY MISSING SOME RW'S NO OTHER QUESTIONS? 07not on RW etc no no Not at the moment 06not on this part 12not yet IT LOOKS LIKE JOINS ARE THE BIG QUESTION TONIGHT so far so good 06yep I DIDN'T GET TO READ ALL YOUR CHAT WHILE I WAS GONE THE LESSON TALKS TRADITIONAL JOINS FIRST 13guess we were jumping ahead ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE TRADITIONAL/USUAL JOIN? 07I think so. 06no 12there was a question about whether you count the join as the 1st half of the DS or not. no questions yet i COUNT THE JOIN AS THE FIRST HALF OF THE DS 12I've seen/heard people teach yes, but also "no" IF I DON'T 07Is the tradtional join the one described in the lesson? 12I count it too k I haven't been counting it :-( THEN THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE JOIN AND THE NEXT PICOT MAY BE TOO LARGE COMPARED TO OTHER SECTIONS OF THE RING OR CHAIN i don't count it I haven't been counting it as a stitch? IT'S ALSO A GREAT WAY TO GO IN SPEED TATTING CONTESTS, ONE LESS HALF STITCH :))))) 13and if the needle method is used--slipping theneedle thru and then does it count? SOME PEOPLE DO NOT COUNT THE 2ND HALF AS LONG AS IT'S CONSISTENTLY DONE, IT'S NOT WRONG DON'T MIX ON THE SAME PIECE 13that is the art of tatting IT'S LIKE PICOTS AND THE DS AFTER THE THREAD SPACE OF THE PICOT SOME PEOPLE DON'T COUND THE DS AFTER THE THREAD SPACE 07will it cause twisting if you do not tat the second half? BUT I DO COUNT IT 13it can I H AVEN'T NOTICED ANY TWISTING ROBERT 07ok I DID IT THAT WAY FOR YEARS UNTIL I FOUND OTHER TATTERS yes it twists if you have alot of them WOW, GOOD TO KNOW k I have had some twisting will have to see if counting it will correct the problem IT IS STILL AN ONGOING DEBATE SOME TWISTING MAY COME OUT WITH BLOCKING TOO but I'm so inexperienced that I tend to twist anyway 13it makes a "josephine" knot either the first half or the second half 07so do what works for you and be consistent? ARGH!!! THAT'S A TOPIC WE SHOULD COVER IN CLASS!!! REMINDER TO SELF THAT'S RIGHT ROBERT 07cool lol BUT IF YOU'RE IN A SPEED TATTING CONTEST, YOU KNOW MY RECOMMENDATION :)) 07I hear ya. 06Does the same count it/don't count it, but be consistent apply for a shuttle join? speed tatting, i'm so slow it's not even funny I think I'll do a few trials and compare what it looks like SHUTTLE JOIN IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT 06lol - me too, Sona 13many of us are slow tatters 07was shuttle join in the lesson? Your not the only one who is slow sona YOU'LL ALL BE FAST TATTERS SOON 06No, it wasn't, Rober. 06oops - Robert 07rober is fine 12All of us are/were slow at some point Fast and do it with our eyes closed. I THINK SHUTTLE JOIN IS NEXT TIME, CAN WE TALK ABOUT IT THEN? 07yes please we aren't going to talk shuttle join? I'm confused 06I'm sorry, everyone. It was my question. I'll hold it until next week. ok IT'S IN THE NEXT LESSON I THINK k IF THERES' TIME WE'LL COME BACK TO IT 07I was just worried that I hadn't read the lesson well. no prob if we do MEANTIME ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON JOINING RINGS TO RINGS 07no no I'M JUST KEEPING AN EYE ON THE CLOCK :) no 06Nope - got it. no 13No--I got it down OK NEXT TOPIC IS: FOLDED JOIN THIS JOIN HELPS BAIL YOU OUT FROM THOSE JOINS THAT ALWAYS TWIST WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO JOIN ONE RING TO ANOTHER IN AN AWKWARD SPOT LIKE SEVERAL RINGS WITH THEIR BASES TOGETHER IN A LITTLE FLOWER k HAVE ANY OF YOU RUN INTO THAT SITUATION? yes 07yes 13yes 06I have a snowflake with a nice twisted picot :) yes today yes yes on the wreath DID YOU SEE THE LINK FROM THE LESSON TO THE DIAGRAM ON THE FOLDED JOIN? 07yes yes 12yes yes that's how I fixed it 06Yes. I tried it and think it worked. 07it is very well done. I REALLY LIKE IT i managed the join but had problem with remaining ds then closing ring on flower 07It took me a couple of tries but I think that I figured it out. THE FINAL FEW DS ARE A BEAR MAKE SURE THAT YOU KEEP TESTING THAT YOUR CORE THREAD SLIDES i found that out...lol AND PUT IT ON YOUR HAND AS BEST YOU CAN 07tell me about it. IT WILL BE AWKWARD 06I joined the wrong picot of the 1st ring, but the join worked and I got the last ring closed. OH JOY, SO FRUSTRATING FOR YOU I do that all the time 13yes k THE JOIN EXECUTED CORRECTLY TO THE WRONG PICOT... BTDT 06My flower has a little issue :( I have several copies of that wonderful diagram all around the house! lol a little issue...rofl THERE ARE SOME WAYS YOU CAN GET AROUND THESE TYPES OF AREAS me too SPLIT RINGS HELP WHEN YOU'RE CLIMBING TO ANOTHER ROUND AFTER BUT FOR NOW WE DON'T KNOW THOSE, SO WE'RE STUCK WITH THE FOLDED RING ER, JOIN NO MORE QUESTIONS THERE? nope 07not here 13flowers are never "perfect" so remember it has individuality OK here 06nope. brb sick kid 07handmade rules! 06Thanks, Cynthia. no HTANKS FOR STUDYING AHEAD Y'ALL, SAVES TIME FOR Q&a AT THE END OK, NEXT ON THE LIST: CHAINS WE DID CHAINS IN THE M&g BUT IT IS A BIT TRICKY THE FIRST FEW TIMES DOING THEM WITH RINGS ONE AFTER THE OTHER I ALREADY DESCRIBED RW IS REQUIRED TO GO FROM A RING TO A CHAIN 13I do it by if I can't see it as a problem leave it there but if I see it then take it out' AND BACK AGAIN 07k k ANOTHER TRICKY THING ABOUT CHAINS 13sorry my computer skipped a bit. IS THAT THEY CAN BE KIND OF DIFFICULT TO TENSION PROPERLY 06k :) THE GOOD NEWS IS YOU CAN PUSH THE DS'S TO THE BASE OF THE CHAIN UNTIL IT ARCHES k CHAINS SHOULD ARCH - THE DS IS BIGGER ON THE TOP THAN THE BOTTOM, DID YOU NOTICE? BUT YOU DON'T WANT THE DS'S TOO CROWDED 13yes YOU CAN USE YOUR THUMBNAIL TO SMOOTH THEM BACK OUT AWAY FROM THE BASE AGAIN UNTIL THE CHAIN HAS THE TENSION YOU LIKE BUT YOU WILL NEED TO SQUISH THEM BACK AT LEAST SOME AFTER FLIPPING THE DS'S OR THE RESULTING CHAIN LOOKS FLOPPY THINK OF IT AS THE EQUIVALENT OF CLOSING YOUR RING - CLOSING YOUR CHAIN 07any advice on how tight to squeeze the chains? 06Good tip! THAT'S THE TOUGH PART ROBERT I DO IT UNTIL THEY LOOK LIKE THE PIECES I'VE SEEN AND LIKED AT SOME POINT YOU GET AN IDEA OF WHAT YOU LIKE 07ok BUT IF YOU CAN SEE THE CORE THREAD IT'S NOT TIGHT ENOUGH Avoiding the little gap between the ring and chain is still an ongoing struggle. IF IT'S WONKY k 13practice makes perfect IOW THE CHAIN IS NOT ARCHING THE SAME AND SYMMETRICALLY 13or has gaposis 07That is a good tip THEN IT NEEDS TO BE TIGHTER YES WE MUST AVOID THE HEARTBREAK OF GAPSOSIS NOT ONLY DOES TENSIONING YOUR CHAIN HELP AVOID GAPSOSIS :-D BUT ALSO KEEPING A GOOD LOOK AT WHERE THE FIRST DS OF THE CHAIN GETS MADE