Session Start: Thu Dec 06 18:10:16 2007 Session Ident: #tatchat * Now talking in #tatchat * Tatter009 is now known as Katia 12hi Mimi Hi Mimi 06Hi Mimi and Katia Hi, sorry I'm late. Big wreck on the freeway tonight Hi Katia Good evening everyone 12hi Katia! Wreck from all the detour traffic dont worry mimi so am i had to put kid to bed and he did nt want to go 07Hello, Mimi & Katia 05Hey, Mimi and Katia! 12ok, Mimi, Katia, how cold is it where you are? Maybe 35F? Mimi are you near the flood area? Yes 12oh...it's 38 or 39 here....I thought you would be down into the 20s lol very cold around 8 f Luckily I live on a hill 12 But I have neighbors who got a good scare this week yes, you are. My cousin live on the side of a mountain Luckily my part of the hill is not steep, so no mudslides either I have been on I5 good Did you go as far south as Centralia/Chehalis Angie? It's still closed through there I think I was down to Centralia once. It has been a while since I was out there They had 10 feet over the freeway at one point 07c that is what I head on our news and it is a 400 mile detour to Portland Down to "only" 3/4 mile section closed this morning with a few feet 06c good Correct. I work at a port cargo terminal, and no cargo has left all week for Portland 05Be safe!! Anyway, enough of our headaches, anyone want to tat? yes we do LET'S SIGN IN Mimi Dillman, Snohomish, WA USA ntrop@ix.netcom.com Angela Miracle, Davison, MI al_miracle@hotmail.com 12Stephanie Wilson Athens, GA USA trompete@bellsouth.net 07Cathy Quarterman, lucie296@yahoo.com south georgia 06Cynthia Stevenson, Stillwater OK USA brasthatfit@yahoo.com 05That's why we're here! Nancy Clemmons Birmingham AL USA (42 degrees) bookjazz at yahoo Katia Vallée sherbrooke Québec Canada , lady_elhasa@hotmail.com nice you could make it tonight cynthia The lesson tonight is http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/lesson3.html 06Thank you--you got my message Did everyone have a chance to read the lesson? yes 05Yes, it was a LOT in one lesson. It was! 07yes Joins, Rings off Chains (2 shuttle tatting, ack!!) and Thread Ends But all are important to your continued enjoyment of tatting patterns you'll encounter First off - joins 06We can do it--1 step at a time!!! :) LOL CAP LOCK MY DEAR MIMI THANKS KATIA :) WE ALL CAN DO THE STANDARD JOIN WHERE ONE JOINS TO A PICOT ABOVE THE CORE THREAD 07yes 05Standard is second nature now. BUT SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO JOIN TO A THREAD THAT IS *UNDER* THE CORE THREAD AND YOUR BALL THEAD IS OVER YOUR HAND AND OUT OF POSITION IT'S NOT ALLOWED TO CROSS THE CORE THREAD AND GO BELOW RESULTING JOIN WOULD MAKE THE WORK TWIST SO WHAT DO YOU DO? ? HMMM ..... ANYONE ? HOW ABOUT A CONCRETE EXAZMPLE http://www.georgiaseitz.com/classes/springideas.html 05Well, one time I successfully folded over something and made a little flower... IN THIS MOTIF (ignore the beads) YOU WILL NEED TO JOIN A CHAIN IN PROGRESS TO A PLACE ON THE ROUND BELOW WHICH THREAD DO YOU PULL THROUGH THE JOINING AREA, THE BALL THREAD OR SHUTTLE THREAD? shuttle thread? YES ANGIE EXACTLY! :) THE DIFFICULTY, IS, THOUGH, THAT PULLING YOUR SHUTTLE (NEEDLE :)) THREAD THROUGH THAT PICOT MEANS YOU'LL HAVE TO CREATE A KNOT * Tatter741 has joined #tatchat * Cynthia has quit IRC (Quit: Tatters 4 forever!) 05A permanent, difficult to undo type knot * Tatter741 is now known as Margaret BECAUSE YOU'LL HAVE PASSED YOUR SHUTTLE (NEEDLE) THROUGH THE LOOP OF SHUTTLE (NEEDLE) THREAD NOT TOTALLY PERMANENT NANCY JUST A LITTLE DIFFICULT :) 07Hi, Margaret 12hi Margaret! 12Margaret I. Boos, London, Ontario, Canada maggiep54@sympatico.ca shutte HAVE YOU NOTICED THAT IF YOU PULL THE SHUTTLE THREAD TO THE RIGHT A BIT, IT WILL LOOSEN SOME? NEEDLE TATTER NEEDS TO PULL THE CHAIN IN PLACE BEFORE MAKING THIS TYPE OF JOIN SHUTTLE TATTERS TOO - VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU SNUG YOUR CHAIN TO ITS FINAL SHAPE BEFORE YOU PULL THIS JOIN TIGHT HELLO MARGARET WELCOME MARGARET BUT THE EFFECT IS VERY PRETTY - A NICE ARC 12hello to all, I didn't want to miss the joins but my bus connection didn't wait for me 12ok Cathy, I was cold....just made some hot tea. AND THIS FLOWER - OTHERWISE NAMED "CLASSIC ROSETTE" BY GEORGIA- IS A FEATURE OF MANY ANTIQUE - AND NOT SO ANTIQUE - PATTERNS has a false picot I'D RECOMMEND EVERYONE GIVE IT A TRY GOOD POINT ANGIE, ONE NEED NOT CUT AND TIE AFTER MAKING THE CENTER RING 12I read that pattern and printed out the instructions for a shuttle join * Tatter044 has joined #tatchat put one must understand how to make a false picot THE PATTERN EXPLAINS HOW * Tatter044 is now known as Cynthia 12I counld not understand at all how to make a false picot from that pattern it didn't make sense to me YOU LEAVE A THREAD LENGTH ON BOTH THE SHUTTLE AND BALL THREADS THAT IS THE LENGTH OF ONE SIDE OF THE PICOT MAKE A LOCK STITCH LOCK STITCH = FLIPPED 1ST HALF AND NON FLIPPED 2ND HALF STITCH 12I don't know how to make a lock stitch and I just missed it THAT LOSCKS THE PICOT INTO PLACE OR SHOULD I SAY, THAT LOCKS THE 2 THREAD SPACES AT THAT LENGTH AND WHEN YOU START YOUR CHAIN AFTER THAT LOCK STITCH, GUESS WHAT THE 2 THREADS TOGETHER AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT CHAIN LOOK LIKE A PICOT! 12is there a difference between a lock stitcha and a lock join? 06Margaret easy concept but tricky once you get used to flipping both BIG DIFFERENCE LOCK STITCH TAKES 2 THREADS LOCK JOIN IS WITH SHUTTLE (NEEDLE) THREAD ONLTY 12have you taught the lock join already tonight (what I really wanted to learn tonight) IS THE FALSE PICOT STARTING TO SINK IN YET? THIS PICOT CAN ALSO BE CALLED MOCK PICOT YES MARGARET SORRY CHECK THE LOG yes, sort of. 12good night everyone USUALLY A PICOT IS MADE OF ONLY 1 THREAD THAT GOES UP ABOVE THE LINE OF DS'S AND COMES BACK DOWN A FALSE PICOT IS MADE OF 2 THREADS THAT COME UP FROM THE WORK TOGEHTER 05All the synonyms roll around in my brain. I need to keep a cheat sheet handy. ILL HELP YOU TO THE SHUTTLE LOCK AFTER CLASS MARGARET 12will you be discussing the round robin pattern tonight? YOU'LL HAVE TO TURN YOUR WORK 180 DEGREES SO THAT THE 2 THREADS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE RING COME OFF THE TOP TO MAKE THIS WORK ONCE THE 2 THREADS ARE POSITIONED AT THE TOP, LEAVE A SMALL THREAD SPACE ON EACH THREAD THE SAME LENGTH AS THE HEIGHT OF YOUR OTHER PICOTS DO THE LOCK STITCH 05I finally get what you're describing! FLIPPED 1ST HALF STITCH + NON FLIPPED 2ND HALF STITCH SO IT WON'T SLIDE 12I understand what you just said SO YOU HAVE A RING THAT'S SURROUNDED BY PICOTS BUT ONE PICOT HAS A KNOT AND 2 THREADS COMING OUT OF IT GET THE WORK BACK INTO YOUR PINCH, AND MAKE YOUR NEXT ELEMENT - IN THIS CASE, A CHAIN 05You're making a fake picot with a little knot in the middle. 06Good way to climb out so you don't have to tie and cut and work ends in EXACTLY RIGHT CYNTHIA! FEWER ENDS TO FINISH = NEATER END RESULT (AND FASTER FINISHING) 06Always a Plus :) VERY HANDY CONCEPT, AND ONE I HOPE EVERYONE CAN CATCH ONTO SO THAT'S THE JOINS/LOCKS SECTION ANY MORE QUESTIONS? 06IT took me 20 years--now I want to share it with everyone that was quick JUST THAT PART ANGIE - AND OOPS I TRIED TO SKIP FOLD-OVER JOINS WHICH "IT" CYNTHIA, FALSE PICOT? 06yes and climbing out to not have to cut and tie and work in ends 12l ISNT' IT NICE TO HAVE CONTACT WITH OTHER TATTERS AND LEARN THESE NEAT TRICKS? ANYWAY, THE FOLDED JOIN, WHY DID I TRY TO SKIP IT? yes, http://www.georgiaseitz.com/roundrobin/newbiesroundrobin.html LOOK AT THIS PATTERN 06:) DEFINATELY :) THE CENTER IS A FLOWER OF 6 RINGS WITH THE RING'S BASES ALL ON THE INSIDE 12have you noticed that NONE of us like to have to work in ends after we finish? 12;-) ANYONE EVER TRIED TO MAKE ONE OF THOSE? STEPHANIE ARE THE JOIN AND FALSE PICOT CLEAR FOR YOU WITH THE NEEDLE? 05Last night I "cleaned up" seven little motifs that have been languishiing for weeks! 12sorry, katia, i've been really busy and haven't tried one to make sure I can do them. 12Ill try after class. I promise.... GOOD JOB NANCY 07c THAT ALRIGHT DONT WORRY 12k THESE PATTERN CENTERS WITH OUTWARD FACING RINGS ARE FAIRLY COMMON IN OLD PATTERNS BUT THEY ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO FINISH THE LAST PICOT- THE ONE THAT JOINS THE LAST RING TO THE FIRST - IS A STRANGE ONE 05Like the little mini-tats? LIKE THIS PATTERN CENTER: http://www.georgiaseitz.com/roundrobin/newbiesroundrobin.html SEE THE 6 RING FLOWER IN THE MIDDLE? 12I am at the sixth ring JOINING RING 6 TO RING 1 IS AWKWARD BUT YES NANCY USUALLY RESULTS IN A TWISTED JOIN BUT PRINT AND KEEP THIS PAGE HANDY http://www.georgiaseitz.com/newtat/join1.gif OR USE YOUR COPY OF REBECCA JONES' BOOK IF YOU HAVE IT THESE WALK YOU THROUGH THE STEPS OF FOLDING OVER THE WORK TO GET HTE PICOT INTO A MORE NORMAL POSITION FOR JOINING AND HOW TO TWIST YOUR HOOK T I tried to do a fold over join and made a real mess TO UNDO THE TWIST INTRODUCED BY FOLDING THE FIRST FEW TRIES ARE USUALLY NOT SUCCESSFUL SO MANY THINGS GOING ON AT ONCE 12Katia the fold-over join works the say way with the needle as it does with the shuttle, right? I USUALLY ONLY MAKE IT BY FOLLOWING STEP BY STEP VERY SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY 12FOld it over, do teh join, and unfold? YES STEPHANIE AND READING EVERY WORK WORD BECAUSE IF I DON'T I TURN THE WRONG DIRECTION AT HTE WRONG TIME (AND THE REST IS HISTORY) THE GOOD NEWS IS 12k IF YOU LEARN A SPLIT RING RIGHT YOU CAN AVOID THIS SITUATION, AT LEAST AT THE MIDDDLE OF A MULTI-ROUND PATTERN SO THERE'S SOME INCENTIVE TO PRESERVERE WITH SPLIT RINGS !! (LESSON 4) MAIN THING IS: I will be back for that 06definately and the split ring is easier than it sounds FOOLD WORK UNDER 07c HOOK DOWN INTO PICOT AWAY FROM YOU TO CATCH RING THREAD 05Tomorrow will be fold-over flower day at my house! 12I have the second ds done after the second picot in the sixth ring -- now what? me too FOLD THE PREVIOUS WORK *UNDER* THE CURRENT RING AND KEEP YOUR SHUTTLE/BALL THREADS *OUTSIDE* AWAY FROM THE FOLD 12Katia do you MSN Messenger or Yahoo Messenger because if you do, contact me after class and teach me th e lock join BACK OF YOUR WORK OF THE 1ST 3 RINGS IS FACING YOU BUT UNDERNEATH THE LAST 3 wht 12I tried to phone the number you gave me but two men who couldn't speack English didn't know who you were WHT? ops what name on msn margaret? 12maggiep54@sympatico.ca DO YOU HAVE THE 1ST PICOT UNDER THE AREA FOR JOINING NOW? * Margaret has left #tatchat 12yes PUSH YOUR CROCHET HOOK FROM ABOVE THE WORK TO BELOW TO CATCH RING THREAD PULL RING THREAD UP THROUGH THE PICOT 06c 07c SHUTTLE COMES U P FROM BELOW THIS LOOP TO GO THROUGH THE LOOP ADJUST THE TENSION ON YOUR JOIN TO FINISH THE JOIN AND DO THE 2ND HALF STITCH AFTER DO NOT UNFOLD BUT *DO* CHECK THAT YOUR CORE THREAD STILL SLIDES AFTER ALL THIS FINISH THE DS'S FOR THE RING NOW YOU CAN UNFOLD AND CHECK BEFORE CLOSING THE RING I HOPE THIS WORKED? 05Page46 is where Rebecca Jones shows her instructions aboaut this. I have it bookmarked. MAY TAKE A FEW TRIES TO MAKE SURE ALL THE THREADS ARE WHERE THEY NEED TO BE TO AVOID INTRODUCING TWIST THANKS NANCY VERY IMPORTANT PAGE IN A VERY IMPORTANT BOOK EVERYONE MUST STILL BE JUGGLING THREAD, SHUTTLE, HOOK AND WORK ? just to let eveyone know the folded join may be used in other style of motif i made the bridal hat from the dmc book and to join to motif together i needed to use the folded join IT'S NEEDED FOR TIGHT SPACES 12Katia what did you use to make the hat hold its shape? I STARCH IT 12with regular starch? can we still get Rebecca Jones book? BUT IF YOU TAT TIGHTLY YOU DONT NEED ALOT OF IT FABRIC STIFFERNER 12i keep tellling myself I'll make that hat....for ME.... 12but so far have not had time. I THINK JONES IS STILL IN PRINT USE SIZE 20 THREAD NOT THE AIZE 30 IT MAKE A VERY SMALL HAT STILL ON HANDY HANDS SITE "THE COMPLETE BOOK OF TATTING" YES THE REBECCA JONES BOOK CAN STILL BE BOUGHT AT HANDY HAND I THINK JUDITH CONNORS I'll check Amazon MAY ALSO HAVE INCLUDED IT IN HER DICTIONARY OF TATTING I HEAR THE DICTIONARY HAS A REVISED 2ND EDITION EITHER OUT OR ABOUT TO COME OUT 12ok, i'll make sure to get size 20. I'd like to make a pink hat. ok, I will go there 06c SO THAT ENDS THE JOINS SECTION UNLESS THERE ARE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS I HAVE THE DICTIONNARY MIMI I HAVE THE 1ST ED, VERY HANDY BUT SHE DOESN'T DO CLUNY JUSTICE :)) THE SECOND EDITION IS ALREADY OUT AND HANDY HAND AS IT OK THANKS I'LL WATCH FOR IT 12well, compared to Mimi, NOBODY coudl do Cluhny j8stice NEXT CONCEPT: 2 SHUTTLE TATTING!! 12;-) BACK TO THE PATTERN CALLED BEGINNER'S ROUND ROBIN MOTIF http://www.georgiaseitz.com/roundrobin/newbiesroundrobin.html ISN that 2 shuttle tatting is interesting ISN'T IT PRETTY AYE MIMI DOES REALLY NICE CLUNY WORK THANK YOU (BLUSH) 12i think i have gone insane. FOR THE MOTIF, YOU CAN SEE IT INCORPORATES A LOT OF WHAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED TONIGHT 12There is a pattern that has 64 clunies in 1 round.... 12and I want to make it BE STRONG STEPHANIE :) BUT YOU CAN, JUST BE PATIENT WICH ONE STEPHANIE I CURIOUS NOW THERE IS THE FOLDED JOIN 12I can do them, they just don't look so great yet. 12i'll look... THEN THERE IS THE FALSE PICOT THEN A LOCK STITCH AND CHAINS THAT JOIN TO THE ROUND BELOW WITH LOCK JO0INS BUT everything you can think of, right HOW THE HECK DO THOSE RINGS GET THERE *ON TOP OF* THOSE CHAINS??!! THEY'RE ON THE WRONG SIDE, AREN'T THEY SUPPOSED TO BE UNDER? NOT NECESSARILY! YOU CAN GET HTEM UP THERE IF YOU MAKE THE CHAIN IN SECTIONS - AND WIND THE BALL THREAD ONTO A SHUTTLE (OR HAVE IT ON ANOTHER NEEDLE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO INTERRUPT THE CORE THREAD OF THE CHAIN) WHAT I MEAN TO SAY IS 05how small is a VERY small picot? FIRST ROUND OF THE PATTERN YOU CAN SEE IS A FLOWER OF 6 RINGS SO SMALL THAT WHEN YOU JOIN TO IT, YOU CAN'T SEE IT ANYMORE 05a disappearing picot? JUST ENOUGH FOR YOUR HOOK TO GET THROUGH AND GRAB THE THREAD NOT REALLY, JUST FILLED WITH THREAD that is small and you need a chochet hook to do the join 12Katia - the 3rd tatting book, pages 44-45. The book with the bridal hat. USUALLY SO UNLESS YOU'RE TALENTED/PRACTICED WITH THE PICK 12I THINK those are clunies THE 2ND ROUND, THOUGH, WILL REQUIRE 2 SHUTTLES 05like a size 14 ? NO SIZE 10 FOR BIG THREAD IS OK YOU DON'T WANT TO SPLIT YOUR THREADS IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO SSIZE 14 IS FOR US INSANE BEADERS :) OR THOSE WHO USE SIZE 80 THREAD SORRY - MEANT TO SAY "RISK" SPLITTING YOUR THREADS 05OK. Good deal I like 80 thread thanks Stephanie ill take a look after class I FIND WITH SIZE 20 I SPLIT THE THREAD WHEN I USE A HOOK THAT SIZE SO I AVOID IT UNLESS I NEED THE HOOK TO GET THROUGH A BEAD 06c AND YOU KNOW I POKE MY HOOK THROUGH BEADS A LOT NANCY :) hmm i guess im an insane tatter ;) 05oh, YEAH!!! ME TOO FOR SURE ANYWAY, BACK TO THE MOTIF TO START THE 2ND ROUND YOU'LL WANT TO HAVE 2 SHUTTLES WOUND CONTINUOUS THREAD METHOD 07:) OR CTM k 12i am an insane tatter, too, but it has nothing to do with crochet hook sizes... ;-) THAT MEANS YOU'LL NEED TO PULL ENOUGH THREAD OFF THE BALL TO WIND A GOOD CHUNK ONTO THE 2ND SHUTTLE TO AVOID A BIG KNOTTED LUMP YOU CAN WIND IT OUTSIDE THE ALREADY-WOUND SHUTTLE, THEN WIND OFF THAT SHUTTLE THE THE 2ND SHUTTLE THEN JOIN THE THREAD WITH A LOCK JOIN TO A FREE PICOT ON THE FIRST ROUND YOU CAN START A CHAIN THERE, 12I just figured out that if you use a pencil and wind some thread on the pencil as if it were a shuttle, you can sort of "eyeball" enough thread to fill the shuttle without being too far over or under the amount you need. 05that would avoid some tangled spaghetti I've made 3DS, SMALL JOINING PICOT, 4 DS AND STOP GOOD TIP STEPHANIE! GOT ANY LACEMAKER'S BOBBINS HANDY, THEY'RE NICE FOR IT TOO OK, YOU' YOU STOPPED YOUR CHAIN AT THAT POINT sounds like a must have for the tatters tool box YOU'LL WANT TO SET DOWN YOUR 1ST SHUTTLE, THE ONE THAT WAS FLIPPING THE STITCHES WHILE SHUTTLE 2 WAS OVER YOUR HAND IN THE BALL POSITION (SORRRY I FORGOT TO MENTION EARLIER THAT TO MAKE THE CHAIN THE 2ND SHTUTLE ACTS LIKE THE BALL THREAD) There alot of tool from bobinne lace that i use TAKE THE 2ND SHUTTLE OFF YOUR LEFT HAND AND SET UP TO MAKE A RING WITH THAT 2ND SHUTTLE THE BASE OF THE RING SHOUDL BE RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE LAST DS DO NOT UNFLIP THAT DS AND MAKE SURE YOU START THE RING CLOSE TO THAT DS YOU DON'T WANT A THREAD SPACE THERE ... OR... YOU'LL GET... (DO I HEAR A CHORUS?) picot G A P S O S I S! (or unwanted picot) WHO KNOWS, YOU MAY WELL WANT A FALSE PICOT THERE IN OTHER PATTERNS one of those very small ones * Cathy has quit IRC (Quit: Tatters 4 forever!) BUT IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY AT THIS ONE, THERE IS NO PICOT BETWEEN THE RINGS ABOVE THE CHAINS AND THE CHAINS THEMSELVES 06c AS MR DALE POMEROY TELLS HIS STUDENTS (UNTIL THEY WANT TO STRANGLE HIM SOMETIMES) YOU ARE THE ARTIST SO IF YOU INTRODUCE THIS PATTERN VARIATION THAT'S FINE BUT YOU MAY WANT TO REPEAT IT THE WHOLE WAY THROUGH SO NO ONE WILL KNOW IT'S A VARIATION (IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?) 06I like pattern variations--or happy changes works for me OK DID YOU FOLLOW SO FAR WITH USING THE 2ND SHUTTLE TO MAKE THE RING AFTER THE PARTIAL CHAIN DONE WITH SHUTTLE 1 05You mean a consistent oops? yes NOW IT'S TIME TO CONTINUE THE CHAIN 06could be PUT SHUTTLE 2 BACK INTO POSITION OVER YOUR LEFT HAND AS BALL THREAD AND PICK UP SHUTTLE 1 05yes, think I'm with you. YOU'RE NOW IN POSITION TO WORK THE CHAIN AGAIN I have played with two shuttles a bit MAKE 5 MORE DS ON THAT CHAIN THEN IT'S TIME TO PUT DOWN SHUTTLE 1, PICK UP SHUTTLE 2, AND DO THE MIDDLE RING THIS RINGE IS SLIGHTLY BIGGER THAN THE ONE BEFORE IT AND IT JOINS TO THAT RING, TOO. SO JUST TAKE YOUR TIME AND TAKE CARE. IT MAY LOOK FLOPPY/MESSY AT THIS POINT, BUT YOU CAN DO IT if you say so WHEN YOU FINISH THIS 2ND RING, YOU'LL GO THROUGH THE SHUTTLE SWITCHING ROUTINE AGAIN TO DO A LITTLE MORE ON THE CHAIN 5 MORE DS THAT IS THEN SWITCH SHUTTLES AGAIN FOR THE LAST RING THAT LAST RING ON THE CHAIN IS THE SAME AS THE FIRST, ONLY IT JOINS TO HTE MIDDLE RING 06keep the tension even and it looks better when you finnish AFTER YOU CLOSE THAT RING, SWITCH SHUTTLES TO FINISH THE CHAIN WIHT 4 DS, SM PICOT, 3 DS 12Katia where is the best place to look to learn the lock join and the lock stitch on the needle? THEN TENSION YOUR CHAIN BECAUSE YOU'LL HAVE TO MAKE A LOCK JOIN TO THE ROUND BELOW