Session Start: Wed Apr 25 17:50:37 2007 Session Ident: #tatchat * Now talking in #tatchat Hi BJ and Patti 05Great! Hi Teach! Hi Mimi! I hope you had a nice week? 05y It was pretty good. And you? 05good news on my health from Dr. I'm hanging in there. Thriving not just surviving! That is good news BJ. 05y I had a wonderful week - went to Spokane for the Shuttlebirds Tatting Workshop Now I need a vacation from my vacation 05oh I'm sooooo green That sounds like fun! 05Did you teach a class? I taught 3 classes Beginning Cluny * Tatter has joined #tatchat Cluny for Improvers and a beaded Zipper Pull 05No wonder you need a rest. I'm working towards Cluny. Have the book! LOL The zipper pull had no clunies ;) I got to take a class too * Tatter is now known as Katia Good evening Katia 05Hi Katia Hi katia I was just telling BJ and Patti about Spokane The class was Ruth Perry's Celtic bird Good evening eveyone It has hanging clunies IT was the first time I took a class and got to learn about clunies! nice I like her patterns. She's very inventive I also got to meet Karey Solomon for the first time I didn't get to take a class from her, though if remember correctly the bird was with hanging cluny right yes Katia it has 2 I'd never tried her method of hanging cluny It's lots easier than the split cluny my friend Melanie developed I taught Mel's method a couple of years ago for the on-line class someday ill attend one but at the moment with the 3 hyper boys it a bit hard to leave them alon I hope Ruth will do hers for the on-line class too (I think she got pre-empted?) aye i told you it was very easy to do even easier the normal cluny Yes it is, but I'm going to stick with normal cluny when design means the ends need to both come out at the top 05are you talking needle or shuttle cluny? * Tatter has joined #tatchat That way I don't have to cut my shuttle thread!! Cluny can be done with either Hanging cluny, when finished, has no ends sticking out the top i was supposed to meet Karey last year at the ioli convention in montreal but she had to cancel * Tatter is now known as ukbrithoosier Hi Pat hello pat Hi everyone! Hi Pat so you can put hanging clunies on stems, like leaves 05Hi Pat or you can have them hanging off other elements to make them l ook like ears or whatever 05Sounds neat it is I like them because I love Maltese bobbin lace It's made of silk and has lots and lots of fat leaves 05I love to look at the pictures of the cluny work. But I'm unlikely to make Maltese bobbin lace myself to their standards therefore: I tat them :) hehe So Katia and Patti, did you go over true rings on line this week? Yes! Now I get it. :) sorry - I meant OFF line, outside of class yep ... just the first part though Good - hopefully it will help Patti understand Lesson 2 better Single thread tatting is tougher for needle tatters it seems I had tried to do it on my own at one point, but I still somehow made them MR. I'm not even sure how I did that now. Habits are hard to break :) In a true ring, the needle thread acts as a drawstring to pull up the ring I didn't get that you had to turn the thread around. but how do you start that ring after a chain lol Pat just gave the answer :) I kept the tail in my left hand and everything seemed backwards. the only awkward part is the long thread on the needle side Yes, true ring tatting eats up needle thread fast SHALL WE ALL SIGN IN AND GET STARTED? but woth every awkward moment for the finish peice Mimi Dillman, Snohomish, WA ntrop@ix.netcom.com TONIGHT'S LESSON http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/lesson2.html 05Beverly Davis Silver City, NM beeloyal1@aol.com Katia Vallée Sherbrooke QC Canada lady_elhasa@hotmail.com Patti Jones, Columbus, OH, patti111@yahoo.com Pat Scher, Huntington, IN mikeandpm@onlyinternet.net HAS EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO READ OVER TONIGHT'S LESSON? 05Y yes Yes yes ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT TRUE RING TATTING? IT'S THE CLASSIC WAY SHUTTLE TATTERS TAT RINGS and should be the clasic way for needle tatter also 05no, except I forgot what that strange symbol meant in hens n chicks pattern Should have made a note. do you mean the -+? THAT'S THE ONE PATTI 05no, that is a join. this looks like a Greek Cross Mimi when needle tatter work with the true ring method there is no SLT to do WHAT GEORGIA MEANT BY THAT WAS ITS SOMETIMES A JOIN AND SOMETIMES A PICOT 05ah yes, it all comes back. :>) GREAT! KATIA, THAT'S EXACTLY TRUE... BUT DON'T YOU RUN OUT OF NEEDLE THREAD MUCH FASTER THAT WAY? It that on the chick ring? IT'S THE FIRST RING ON THE HEN ROW THE LITTLE RINGS NEXT TO THE BIG ONES LOOK KIND OF LIKE WINGS OF THE CHICKEN we do Mimi bith it worth the time of adding thread just for the look of the ring THE 'CHICKS' ARE THE BOTTOM ROW OF RINGS THAT ARE ALL THE SAME SIZE oups bith = both ... SORRY IN GEORGIA'S PATTERN THE CHICKS ARE ON TOP BUT IF YOU TURN THEM UPSIDE DOWN YOU'LL SEE WHAT THE EFFECT IS AND WHERE THE NAME COMES FROM :) THAT'S GREAT KATIA. I LIKE THE LOOK OF TRUE RINGS BETTER TOO. BUT I HATE DEALING WITH ENDS :) Ok. Do you work all the chicks at once? I'm not sure how to jump between rows. 05I did about 4 inches GOOD JOB BJ! ONCE YOU GET THE REVERSING WORK THING GOING IT GETS EASIER 05pattern begins to make some sense! PAT AND PATTI, DID EITEHR OF YOU TRY THE PATTERN? http://www.georgiaseitz.com/classes/henchicks.jpg hiding the end are exactly like shuttle tatter ... tat over them IT'S KIND OF SMALL PRINT, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO BLOW IT UP WITH A NEEDLE KATIA? YOU GET TO TEACH LESSON 3 THEN!! 05y ROTFL A little bit, but I wasn't sure where it was going. next week I made a start but didn't have much chance to practice this week - sorry! 05the 'catch' is in the 'keep going' then it becomes what the pattern looks like. hmmm that might be a problem:( WHAT DO YOU MEAN PATTI... WHERE IT WAS GOING? IT'S AN EDGING YOU CAN MAKE AS LONG AS YOU LIKE :) RATS, MAYBE WE CAN TALK THREAD ENDS AT THE END OF THE LESSON TONIGHT THEN. I think I joined the wrong Picots or something. THAT'S THE DIFFICULT PART OF THE PATTERN - WHICH PICOTS TO JOIN AND WHICH NOT 05Amen! Wait! I think I see what I didn't figure out. The bottoms of the rings face each other, right? THAT'S RIGHT, THEY DO FACE EACH OTHER ACROSS THE CENTER OF THE EDGING THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE TO REVERSE YOUR WORK BETWEEN EACH RING - TO KEEP THE BOTTOMS OF THE RINGS IN THE CENTR So we are alternating rows as we make the rings? EXACTLY!! Now I need to go try it. :) I EXPECT YOU'LL HAVE YARDS AND YARDS DONE BY NEXT WEEK :))) DID YOU ALL SEE DEBBIE'S COMMUNION CLOTH? http://family.drakepacific.net/communion_cloth_pattern.htm 05We can make 'samplers' of edgings lol LOL 05that is really beautiful and I have thread that color and a hankie! well ya you could my student all have a small book with sampler of every technique they learned IT'S SUCH A BEAUTIFUL COLOR THAT'S A GOOD IDEA KATIA 05I wish I'd known about that when I taught myself back in "02 WELL, YOU'RE RE-LEARNING NOW BJ THE COMMUNION CLOTH PATTERN IS SIMILAR TO HENS & CHICKS 05Reconstructing is my middle name! IN THAT IT HAS RINGS WHOSE BOTTOMS FACE EACH OTHER ONLY THERE ARE 2 ROWS OF THIS TYPE OF ARRANGEMENT, NOT JUST ONE bj the best part is now you get to have some hints from other who tat so it less difficult to learn 05absolutely! AND ALSO, THE JOINING ARRANGEMENT IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERETN ON ONE SIDE BUT THE PATTERN AND PHOTO SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET YOU THROUGH IT IF YOU'D LIKE TO TRY I ALSO LIKE THAT SHE DESIGNED A CORNER THAT LIES FLAT Do you cut and tie off between the rounds? YES PATTI THAT'S THE EASIEST IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE TO CLIMB OUT WITH A SPLIT RING USING THE THREAD END, BUT WITH AS MANY ENDS AS YOU'LL BE GENERATING, IT DOESN'T MUCH MATTER. i do have a question in general for that type of patern SURE what is the space of thread do you leave between ring and how long are the middle picot THREAD SPACE: this is the most question ask by beginner tatter THAT'S A MATTER OF TASTE SOMETIMES THE DESIGNER WILL GIVE YOU A SPACE SIZE 05I learned if the thread space is too short, it will curve. BUT SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO SWATCH TO SEE WHAT'S BEST IN HENS AND CHICKS, YOU MAY FIND THAT THE SPACE LEFT VARIES DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE YOU CAN EVEN GET A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT EFFECT BY VARING THE LENGTHS RIGHT BJ IT CAN SO... I'LL SAY WHAT THEY TELL THE KNITTERS: SWATCH (MAKE A TEST SAMPLE) TO SEE WHAT WORKS BEST THEN YOU CAN MAKE A GAUGE TO HELP YOU MEASURE IT ACCURATELY EACH TIME PICOT SIZE: 05I think that fine print in her pattern which I blew up says 1/4" IT DOES BJ BUT DEPENDING UPON THE THREAD YOU USE, IT MAY SEEM TO MUCH OR TOO LITTLE FOR INSTANCE, IN SIZE 80 THREAD IT MAY LOOK FLOPPY TO YOU 05true true the practice piece is best to see how one's own stitch and thread works out BUT IN SIZE 5 OR 10 IT MAY BE TOO LITTLE AND CAUSE THAT CURVING YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT'S WHY THEY CALL TATTING AN "ART" I HOPE THAT DOESN'T SCARE ANYONE? 05I had that problem with Biswas' Butterfly edging. lol that part of my slogan ... tatting an art to discover 05no, stick n stone words can't scare me err something like that lol BISWAS BUTTERFLY? IS THAT ONLINE? 05Well, when people ask what I'm doing, I explain tatting a little and say it is the fiber arts family 05No, it is in my little book Nice and Easy Tatted Edgings (for beginners) KATIA, YOU ALSO ASKED ABOUT PICOT SIZE She has some neat edgings in there. you could aslo say bj that your making handmade lace AH, I DON'T HAVE THE BISAS BOOK yes i did WHICH PICOT DID YOU MEAN? 05yes, I do that too first I'm making lace the picot to join the 3 little ring YOU MEAN THE ONES BETWEEN THE CHICKS? yes WHAT DO YOU ANSWER THEM WHEN THEY ASK YOU? I'D THINK IT COULD BE ANYTHING AS LONG AS ITS' THE SAME? 05I made them snall, so chicks cuddled up to Hen (mama) 05People are very curious about tatting and I'm in a lot of waiting rooms waiting on physicians and labs Yes I did too, took a while to get that and the space threads to coordinate 05As long as it is consistent, I'd think. The thread space, I mean. well it epends on the thread size they are using but usually i say to use a picot a little but larger then the one they are using but the best way is to try a sample with differnte size of picot and from there you know how long the picot need to be 05good idea! AHHH SWATCHING AGAIN :)) im a big fan of swatching 05ok I bite....swatching? As a knitter, me too I'M AFRAID I'M INTO INSTANT GRATIFICATION, SO I DON'T SWATCH LIKE I SHOULD I've been trying to take pictures to remind myself what I did and what thread I used. THAT'S A GOOD IDEA - PHOTO OF THE PROJECT WITH THE THREAD NOTED 05I made sheets of paper like the Biswas book but swatching is nt only to figure out the picot and thespace of thread .. you can also use it to see if the color your going to us will look good on the project Thats a good idea Patti, like the journals we knitters do of our projects. 05I even take photos of my paintings in various stages 05and note the mixture that made the color that is very interesting and make a nice reference book of your work WOW SO ORGANIZED 05compulsive Business teacher lol lol LOL ANY MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT RINGS? I don't 05When one makes, say butterflys and the smaller rings in the middle become hard to close what is the best way? 05does my question make any sense? NOT REALLY...YOU DIDN'T START THE WORK IN THE MIDDLE AND WORK YOUR WAY OUTWARDS? 05It is that simple little butterfly in the lesson I made scads of them it depends first his it because you tat tighly or because your thread twisted and made a small know to prevent you to close the ring 05but, you start with LR and go to sr lR and sr when you get to the last small ring becomes hard to close oupsknow =knot 05And, I do tat tightly On the Hens and chicks and eggs pattern, would cut and tie for the next two rows? 05I have a hard time getting it in a pinch. I did it, but finally just folded a wing over out of the way. then one way you could try is to fold the ring your about to close over the one right next to it and try closing the ring thata way the hold with help you THAT'S RIGHT PATTI 05I think that is how I ended up doing it - just by logic close the hard ring EACH ROW OF WORK CONSISTS OF 2 ROWS OF RINGS it also the way to close the last clover ring 05k ARE WE READY TO TALK 2-COLOR WORK YET? 05i am sure OK WORKING WITH 2 COLORS CAN ACTUALLY BE VERY EASY TIE A DIFFERENT COLOR OF BALL THREAD TO YOUR NEEDLE OR SHUTTLE AND YOU GET AN INTERESTING EFFECT THE CHAINS WILL BE THE COLOR OF THE BALL THREAD AND THE RINGS WILL BE THE COLOR OF... SHUTTLE THREAD FOR SHUTTLE TATTERS NEEDLE TATTERS HAVE TO ... MAKE A TRUE RING :) THAT'S TO GET THE SAME EFFECT, I MEAN, TO MAKE THE RING THE COLOR OF THE NEEDLE T HREAD or if they are nt using the true ring method they just do a SLt between each ring and chain HAVE ANY OF YOU ALREADY TRIED TATTING WITH 2 COLORS AT ONCE AH, THANKS KATIA, I'M SUCH A NEEDLE TATTING KLUTZ 05y I did some edging in two colors a couple of weeks ago. Yes, The book that BJ was talking about has some patters that work really well with two colors. OH GOOD It was a lot easier than I thought THEN YOU'RE READY FOR MY CANDY CANE IDEA with cluny mimi ;) 2 COLORS ARE VERY FUN WITH CLUNY BUT I FIND THE EFFECT CAN BE LIKE A KALEIDOSCOPE true AND LIKE VARIEGATIONS CAN HIDE THE BEAUTY OF THE PATTERN 05might be good in a stained glass effect BUT HOW ABOUT THIS IDEA : http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/candycane.html * Tatter has joined #tatchat THIS IDEA CAME UP IN ONE OF THE ORIGINAL CLASSES That's realy cute. WHERE WE TALKED MORE ABOUT HOW TO CONTROL WHERE COLORS GO - WHEN ONE DOESN'T NECESARILY WANT THE USUAL PATTERN OF ALL RINGS ONE COLOR AND ALL CHAINS ANOTHER that was done with the scmr and chain not the true ring method TRUE KATIA, THAT'S ANITA'S FAVORED METHOD BUT THE IDEA IS STILL THE SAME 05can you do it with rings w/shuttle? yes bj 05good USE THE "SHOE LACE TRICK" TO MAKE SURE THE RIGHT COLOR IS IN THE RIGHT POSITION FOR THE NEXT ELEMENT DOES EVERYONE KNOW "SHOE LACE TRICK"? 05ah ha moment No, please explain Patti is supposed to know that one IT'S TYING ONE THREAD OVER ANOTHER, RIGHT OVER LEFT OR LEFT OVER RIGHT, J UST LIKE STARTING TO TIE YOUR SHOE I use it a lot. Sorry this is Pat I'm suddenly coming up as Tatter again 05me too SLT IS VERY USEFUL. YOU'LL SEE IT REFERRED TO A LOT OK now I get it. Thanks PAT ARE YOU UKHOOSIER PAT? Yes, I see me up there but I'm tatter also BIZARRE! ANYWAY, DID YOU SEE THE CANDY CANE? http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/candycane.html Yes really cute - must try it. GREAT! 05y THAT'S IT FOR LESSON 2. UNLESS THERE ARE MORE QUESTIONS? THEN WE CAN GET KATIA TO EXPLAIN TATTING OVER TAILS FOR NEEDLE TATTERS 05thank you for the lesson, Mimi Thank you - lots to practice this week. 05I'm still making pink ribbons! Thanks! I learned a lot. shuttle tatter also need to learn how to tat over taial See you all next week. Bye. oups tail * Tatter has left #tatchat * ukbrithoosier has quit IRC (Quit: Tatters 4 forever!) * Katia has quit IRC (Quit: Tatters 4 forever!) 05Night everyone! I tat over tails all the time and I'm getting better at it since I do it a lot. * Tatter has joined #tatchat ARGH WE LOST KATIA, I WANTED HER INSIGHT ON DOING IT WITH THE NEEDLE. SIGH. sorry * Tatter is now known as KAtia * KAtia is now known as Katia AH, GOOD, YOU'RE BACK! ya clic on the wrong window I just reached the end of my needle thread. :) * BJ has quit IRC (Quit: Tatters 4 forever!) well first of you only had thread before you start a ring never after the ring OK, THAT'S THE WAY I APPROACH IT IN SHUTTLE TATTING TOO or in the middle of the chain ... it does nt look nice needle tatter can do it exactly like shuttle tatter Mimi CASTING ON OVER THE TAIL AND THE NEEDLE? HOW DO YOU KEEP THE END IN PLACE TO CAST ON OVER IT? when you do you first stcih of the ds you carry the thread to hide with a hook so it follows the needle so cast on loosely, pull it through, then tighten? you really tat over it let me figure out ho to explain it better in english im trying to translate at the same time sorry I wish my French were up to this :) no problem These pictures helped explain it to me: http://groups.msn.com/NeedleTattingTwo/addingonthreads.msnw ok let start this again ... ask question as you think of them not exactly how i do it when you start your ring you do your first half of the ds loosely and take your hook in that loop to pull 1 of the tail to be iden throuh That would work better with what we are doing tonight, right? and tighten your first half of the ds over that tail and do the second half of the ds and r edo the same momevent for the tail yes Patti it work also for single shuttle é cut thread peice does it make sense mimi I think I get it Katia It's like what I do with the shuttle most times 1/2 stitch but before i tension it exactly like shuttle tat over tail I stick the pick through the middle of the des ds then pull the thread end through parallel to the core thread but if I'm lucky the end will be very long right and I can tape it to the shuttle in needle tatting you aways have some lenght to work with and let the end follow the regular shuttle thread for awhile then drop the end it's faster ok now how would you do it if you could nt tape the end to another shuttle Thanks for explaining, both of you helped The first way - pulling the little thread end through each 1/2 stitch individually The link was helpful too Thanks Patti and Katia I learn more about needle tatting each class! Me too! :D one thing though dont tat over 2 thread 2 tai thread i mean exept when your working with cut thread I agree with that. I try to avoid more than one extra tail in any element if I can it a pleasure mimi to be able to help the work gets very noticeably thick if I hide more than one So you'll be away next WEdnesday KAtia I mean the bookmark i made with bead on georgia home page is needle tat im out of town most of the day so im not sure what time ill get in That's ok, I'll try my best and hopefully I'll be able to keep up with Patti I'll save up any hard questions until Katia gets back. :) LOL lol or send them to my email thanks again for coming all. I'll get the log up onto the website now. Have a good trip Katia! Thak you both! i will thanks for the class mimi keep up the good work ... and patti you need to send some picture of your work I have some up at http://gardeniasmiscellany.blogspot.com/ Patti this is a piece i made with the needle and beads http://www.georgiaseitz.com/homework/katievdibkmk.jpg and those are true ring Wow, Patti, nice work! I love Katia's bookmark with all the different bead colors Thanks! ya and she say that she is a beginner .... hmmm that make me wonder I wondered too! not what will it look like when she is an experience tatter By the way, I think there may be a PBS show coming up - Masterpiece Theater about a Mrs. Isabella Beeton Isnt' that the same one as did the needlework book in the 1800's that Patti's samples came from? really yes Check your local listings! I will. she actually did alot of needle craft book Mimi i have a question for you and patti if you wish to answer feel free.... i ask the same question to georgia what is the difference between traditional tatting and contaporain I'd be interested in her answer too For me, traditional is rings only, or rings and chains i have georgia answer simple patterns without much technical challenge other than possibly they are big