Session Start: Thu Feb 01 17:45:52 2007 Session Ident: #tatchat * Now talking in #tatchat Good evening! 04made 3 shamrocks using the beads in the 1/2 place hdy mimi Howdy Betty And Sherree is this the beginners class? and ??? Yes indeed it is - or, will be at the top of the hour ok thanks Right now it's open chat while we wait for others to arrive great 04it is cold here in Kansas 24 degrees brrrrr I try to follow the format of Georgia's online class i did some lace still trying to get the spaces equal, cannot work out how you gauge horizontal so gave up and di it vertically That's fine, you can try horizontal again some other time. BTW is "Tatter 688" Grace? i'm going to make a quick coffee to wake up! back in2 min's Georgia's class has 15 mins of chat 04do any of you have brothers or sisters??? That way we can get it out of our system so that we're focussed for the lesson :) 04found a really cute saying One younger sister I have 2 sisters 04I smile because you are my sister....I laugh because there's nothing you can do about it! LOL hehehehe 04I am going to make that into a Birthday card for my hubbys sister and put some butterflies on it with a Big Happy Birthday That's going in my Sister's Birthday card it's perfect 04cool glad you can use it! I thought it was so funny too! is it a quote from someone? 04don't know saw it at a craft fair painted on a piece of wood ok 04I dont have a sister wish I did but then God has given me neat friends that we act like we are sisters! that's just as good 04right 04just took me years to figure it out LOL lol 04Mimi did you post the last class?? Yes I did, on http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/lesson2.html oops I didn't see that 04gosh i missed it The log for last week's class is at the bottom of the links on the left this week's class is http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/lesson3.html I can't get to them Betty has mastered some of this lesson's stuff already i'm back! missed anything? do you have popups blocked, sheree? good for you Betty yes I do Angelfire, while free, is quite annoying about popups Can't get rid of them unless we pay - and we don't pay :-( oh, I see i'll go there later then 04lol thrifty I spend all my earnings :) just can't see them right now 04I did one of the shamrocks in varragated green to yellow didnt like it oh no! It may be tough for you to follow tonight without atleast a printout of the lesson, but let's give it a try why not betty? ok Im game 04didnt like the varagated look I guess spent the week browsing through past lessons,wonderful work has been done , 04like the green on though Some patterns get lost in the variegations 04going to try a mint green one ...hey Mimi can you tat to tight?? I find variegated thread difficult to use to good effect Too tight how? sometimes it's pretty, sometimes blotchy 04by sliding the threads hard together ?? Ah, tensioning too mcuh yes you can I do it all the time I'm afraid... too tense:) i find i am starting to have better tension now i was also pullin too tight but the way I un-do is by runnign my thumbnail over the knots 04I like the varagated on the edging .... well I havent gotten it to tight yet that tends to make them move back a little bit ?? and uncrowd some how do u undo rings though? ah, the tatters eternal question 04I dont think but saw a site that said besure not to tat to tight answer: very carefully :) 04one at a time 688 lol 04lol tight is a matter of judgement main thing is work out a way to keep it consistent about rings can it be undone? can't get the core thread to loosen 04ok Loosening the core thread is tough I ususally try to pry apart the 2 knots on either side of the last picot made you can usually see the core thread that way don't try it at the base of the ring you'll only un-flip the last stitch and make a muddle in fact this week trying to do the edging was a chore, kept starting over after I locate the core thread I put the base of the ring in my pinch -a gain to keep the last knot from unflipping and pull gently on the core thread away from the base of the ring with care, you should be able to pull out enough of the core thread to slide the last of the knots back towards the picot away from the pbase then you can tug on the legs of the last knot to loosen and unpick it i was pulling from the base and it wasightening Oops tightening How about we sign in and get started so we can finish in an hour? LET'S SIGN IN ok ok MIMI DILLMAN, SNOHOJMISH, WA ntrop@ix.netcom.com grace that's Snohomish, WA (like anyone knows where that is) 04Betty McDermott Salina, Ks. ntmatt2540@msn.com Sherree Givens, Hesperia, CA. USA sherree10@yahoo.com Tonight's lesson is http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/lesson3.html grace mazza rome italy aussiesrus2@gmail.com Subjects (for those without popups :)) are Joins, Rings off Chains, and Thread Ends FIRST OFF - JOINS GEORGIA SEITZ WROTE AN EXCELLENT LESSON ON JOINS FOR THE ONLINE CLASS AWHILE AGO http://www.georgiaseitz.com/classes2/joins.html THAT'S WITHOUT POPUPS :) I THINK EVERYONE CAN DO A STANDARD JOIN RING-RING USING PICOTS THOSE OCCUR WHEN THE PICOT TO WHICH YOU WANT TO JOIN 04yes yes its fine IS ABOVE THE THREADS THAT YOU'RE USING SO THAT YOU CAN PULL THE THREAD FROM YOUR LEFT HAND THROUGH THE PICOT yes AND THEN PUT THE CORE THREAD DTHROUGH THE LOOP yes THAT'S FINE, BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE A JOIN *BELOW* THE THREADS yes SAY, WHEN YOU WANT TO JOIN A CHAIN TO A PREVIOUS ROUND WHEN THE CHAIN IS ARCING UP is it like a reverse picot SO THAT THE CORE THREAD IS THE CLOSEST THREAD TO THE JOIN AREA? 04do you pull the core thread up through the space and put the shuttle thread through the loop?? that would be a lock join? CONSIDER THE "CLASSIC ROSETTE" http://www.georgiaseitz.com/classes/springideas.html EXACTLY SHERREE GRACE, WHAT'S A REVERSE PICOT? EXACTLY BETTY, THAT'S HOW YOU MAKE THE LOCK JOIN (AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING IN YOUR WORK!) THE THING IS, THESE LOCK JOINS ARE TRICKY EVEN TO LONG-TIME TATTERS 04is that wrong?? NOT AT ALL BETTY, IT'S RIGHT EVERYONE HAS TO REMEMBER 2 THINGS ABOUT A LOCK JOIN 04ok that's just my explanation couldn't find the right words but you would pull down EXACTLY GRACE 1. MAKE SURE YOUR WORK BEFORE THE JOIN IS COMPLETELY SNUG THE WAY YOU WANT IT TO STAY BECAUSE... LOCK JOINS DON'T MOVE THAT'S WHY THEY'RE CALLED "LOCK" :0 ok 04never thought of it that way ok 2. MAKE SURE THE KNOT IS SNUG BECAUSE ITS POSSIBLE TO LEAVE A GAP OF THREAD BEHIND ok SNUGGING THE KNOT TAKES SOME PRACTICE 04when you pull the thread through it kind of pops the shuttle thread through AND MANY OF US, ONCE WE GET THE KNOT IN THE PLACE WE LIKE IT PULL THE SHUTTLE WITH THE CORE THREAD TO THE *LEFT* (NORMALLY YOU PULL TO THE RIGHT) OVER THE TOP OF THE KNOT TO NUDGE IT MORE TO THE LEFT oh BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THAT THREAD GAP TENDS TO APPEAR - ON THE LEFT ANYWAY, UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY MAKE A FEW, YOU WON'T QUITE TWIG TO THIS SO ONCE YOU FIND SOME GAPSOSIS COME BACK TO THIS LESSON AND GET A REVIEW :) NOW, T HE CLASSIC ROSETTE THIS IS A PRETTY MOTIF OFTEN FOUND IN TATTING PATTERNS IN VARIOUS FORMS YOU CAN RECOGNIZE IT BECAUSE OF THE ROUND OF CHAIN AFTER CHAIN AFTER CHAIN YOU MAKE IT ALL IN ONE PASS - NO CUTTING AND TYING. YOU JUST CIRCLE AROUND AND AROUND MAKING CHAINS AND JOINS UNTIL YOU GET IT TO BE AS BIG AS YOU WANT OR AS BIG AS THE PATTERN CALLS FOR ALL THOSE JOINS ARE LOCK JOINS SO ONCE YOU MAKE ONE OF THESE PUPPIES YOU'LL KNOW YOUR LOCK JOIN :)) so it's a spiral? EXACTLY SHERREE cool ANOTHER TRICKY JOIN THAT STUMPS US ALL UNTIL WE MASTER IT 04it doesnt look like a spiral though ok ISN'T THAT NIFTY BETTY? FOOLS THE EYE 04yes" IS THAT JOIN THAT ALWAYS TWISTS WHEN YOU JOIN THE LAST RING OT THE FIRST IN A FLOWER LIKE THE ONE HERE http://www.georgiaseitz.com/newtat/join1.gif THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE ALL OF YOUR RING BASES ARE INSIDE THE FLOWER THAT LAST JOIN IS A BEAR IT ALWAYS TWISTS UNLESS YOU DO THE "FOLD-OVER" JOIN THE DIAGRAM I JUST GAVE YOU (http://www.georgiaseitz.com/newtat/join1.gif) SHOWS HOW TO i always get that wrong ACCOMPLISH THIS JOIN TO AVOID THAT LAST JOIN'S BEING TWISTED ME, I USUALLY PICK OTHER PATTERNS :) lol BUT IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO THIS LAST JOIN CORRECTLY HAS ANYONE HAD A CHANCE TO TRY THIS YET? IF YOU'D LIKE A PATTERN TO USE TO TRY THIS JOIN, HERE'S ONE http://www.georgiaseitz.com/roundrobin/newbiesroundrobin.html IT'S LISTED ON THE LESSON TOO - BEGINNNER'S ROUND ROBIN CENTER i have twisted a lot of them, does that count? THAT CENTER RING OF 6 RINGS HAS A FOLD-OVER JOIN IN THE FIRST ROUND SURE SHEREE :))) ACTUALLY, THIS IS A NICE LITTLE PATTERN IT HAS ALL THE ELEMENTS OF THIS LESSON CAN YOU SEE THAT IT ALSO HAS... LOCK JOINS? CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHERE? 04oh no Mimi it has a split ring! NO NEED TO DO IT WITH A SPLIT RING. DO IT WITH CUT AND TIE FINISH THE 6 RINGS IN THE MIDDLE. THEN TIE ON AND START THE 2ND ROUND WITH A CHAIN I THINK IT SAYS THAT IN THERE SOMEWHERE I can't see it but i wrote it down for later ALTHOUGH (SHE SAYS LAUGHING EVILLY) IF YOU DO A SPLIT RING FOR THE LAST OF THE 6 RINGS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO A FOLD-OVER JOIN!!!!\ HEHEHE i'm having problems securing the ends as i cut and tie they come apart * Tatter has joined #tatchat 04crying in my beer! lol can i use a lock join or something else ANYWAY, THE LOCK JOINS WILL BE WHERE THE CHAINS OF THE 2ND ROUND MEET THE RINGS OF THE FIRST ROUND WE'RE GETTING THERE GRACE 04cant wait till next lesson FIRST, BEFORE WE LEAVE THIS PATTERN I WOULD LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT ANOTHER THING AT WORK "RINGS OFF CHAINS" ok ok DO YOU SEE IN THE OUTER ROUND THAT THERE ARE 3 RINGS OFF THE *TOP* OF EACH CHAIN? DO YOU KNOW HOW THEY GOT THERE? ssmr? 04yes NO SHERREE, BUT SIMILAR ok HOW BETTY * Tatter has quit IRC (Quit: Tatters 4 forever!) no 04I see it the three rings on the top of the chain but dont know for sure how could they be rings and chains below GETTING THERE WHAT IF YOUR BALL THREAD WAS ACTUALLY WOUND ON ANOTHER SHUTTLE SO THAT YOU HAD 2 SHUTTLES wish I could see the picture http://www.georgiaseitz.com/roundrobin/newbiesroundrobin.html NO POPUPS lol I'm just guessing 04switch the shuttles TO MAKE THAT CHAIN, YOU MAKE 3 DS AND A PICOT THEN 4 DS 04?? RIGHT BETTY! AFTER THE 4TH DS, YOU DROP THE SHUTTLE THAT YOU WERE USING FOR THE CORE PICK UP SHUTTLE 2 FROM WHERE IT WAS OVER YOUR HAND AND MAKE A RING, THE BASE OF WHICH IS SNUG UP AGAINST THE LAST DS OF THE CHAIN 04so do you use two shuttles or one ball and two shuttles?? AFTER CLOSING THAT RING, YOU'LL PUT THAT SHUTTLE'S THREAD BACK OVER YOUR LEFT HAND THREAD JUST LEFT HAND, SORRY THEN PICK UP THE ORIGINAL SHUTTLE AND KEEP ON WITH THE HCHAIN JUST 2 SHUTTLES, NO BALL 04ok thanks THIS IS CALLED "SWITCH SHUTTLES" IN SOME PATTERNS can it be done with ball and shuttle? YES, BUT IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO MAKE A RING WITH A BALL with shoelace trick? BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO HOLD IT LIKE A SHUTTLE AND MOVE IT IN AND OUT OF THE RING LIKE A SHUTTLE I DO IT SOMETIMES WITH SMALL BALLS OF THREAD BUT STILL LOTS OF THE THREAD COMES OFF THE BALL :-( IT'S BETTER TO WIND IT ONTO A SHUTTLE NO SHOELACE TRICK SHERREE THAT WOULD INTERRUPT THE CORE THREAD OF THE CHAIN ok YOU WANT TO MAINTAIN THE SAME CORE THREAD IN THAT CHAIN oh, ok sounds a bit like scmr though SO THAT YOU GET THAT NICE ARCH THAT WE RECOGNIZE AS A TATTED CHAIN 04Mimi I have been putting one of the shuttles in my lap and advance the thread a lot THE 2ND SHUTTLE, THEN, CAN MAKE THE RINGS B3ECAUSE IT'S NOT IN THE CORE ACTUALLY GRACE, THE SCMR USES THIS 2ND SHUTTLE TO GOOD EFFECT THAT'S HOW YOU CAN GET RINGS OFF *RINGS* IF THE INSIDE RING (WITH RINGS ON IT) IS AN SCMR (REMEMBER, SCMR IS A CHAIN THAT'S BEEN JOINED TO ITSELF TO LOOK LIKE A RING) right THEN YOU CAN MAKE RINGS WITH THE OUTSIDE SHUTTLE - NOT THE CORE - AND WHEN YOU PULL ON THE CORE THREAD i get confused as to which thread to use in scmr, when to use the core thread YOU GET A RING WITH RINGS OFF OF IT THAT'S HOW THEY DID THE "GR-8 BUTTERFLY" CORE THREAD WILL BE THE SHUTTLE IN YOUR HAND WHEN YOU'RE WORKING THE INSIDE RING IT'S HARD TO DESCRIBE BUT LEARN TO KEEP TRACK OF THAT CORE THREAD BECAUSE ONCE YOU KNOT IT - YOU'RE TOAST (NO MORE RING) oh right, of course. never thought of that DID I LOSE EVERYONE ANYWAY, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO TRY THIS LITTLE 2-ROUND PATTERN 04no ok YOU'LL SEE THAT MAKING RINGS ON TOP OF YOUR CHAINS IS ACTUALLY MUCH SIMPLER THAN IT SOUNDS 04ok IT'S HARDER TO DESCRIBE THAN DO! yes that's true 04it is a cute little round ok IF THERE ARE NO MORE QUESTIONS WE CAN ATTACK THE LAST PART: THREAD ENDS I'm ready ok 04could see it in a doilie SOME DID MAKE IT INTO A LARGER DOILY BETTY I WISH I COULD REMEMBER WHERE TO FIND THE PHOTOS THERE WAS NO PATTERN - THEY JUST MADE SOMETHING UP! THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL CHALLENGE ANYWAY - THE EASIEST PLACE TO AVOID A KNOT IS AT THE BEGINNING OF YOUR WORK IF YOU'RE DOING SINGLE COLOR WORK DON'T CUT THE SHUTTLE THREAD FROM TEH BALL AFTER WINDING JUST START TATTING right VOILA, NO ENDS TO FINISH LATER AT THAT SPOT THAT'S WHAT IS MEANT BY THE ABBREVIATION YOU MAY HAVE SEEN CALELD "CTM" THIS STANDS FOR "CONTINUOUS THREAD METHOD" WHICH IS A REALLY LONG AND MULTISYLLABIC WAY TO SAY "DON'T CUT" :) lol BUT SOME OF US LIEK TO TAT WITH 2 COLORS OR MIGHT HAVE A COUPLE OF SHUTTLES WITH THREAD ON THAT WE WANT TO TAT OFF THEN WE'RE STUCK WITH 2 THREAD ENDS AT THE BEGINNING RATHER THAN LEAVE THEM FLAPPING HOW ABOUT TATTING OVER THOSE TAILS? HAVE ANY OF YOU TRIED THAT? not yet both at once? IF THERE ARE 2 PLACES TO HIDE THEM, I TRY TO SPLIT THEM UP 04yes and I have pulled the tail out making a ring LOL I CAN TAT TIGHTLY ENOUGH TO SQUISH ONE THREAD DOWN TO PRACTIALLY UNNOTICABLE IN THE CORE yes and they get caught up and knot, so i unpick them and let them loose 2 THREADS SHOWS ARGH BETTY HOW FRUSTRATING IT TAKES SOME PRACTICE TO POKE THAT TAIL BACK AND FORTH TO GET IT TO FOLLOW THE CORE THREAD (AND NOT PULL IT OUT!) BUT THERE'S ANOTHER THING YOU CAN DO right 04so then I get out the Elmers glue !! and glue on the back MAKE THE TAILS LONG ENOUGH lol THAT YOU CAN STICK ONE TO YOUR CORE-THREAD SHUTTLE 04but I figured out not to cut the tail until I have don the close circle then cut the tail that I tatted into the pattern that works THEN TAT AS NORMAL BOTH THREADS WILL THEN BE IN THE CORE BECAUSE THEY'RE BOTH ATTACHED TO THE SHUTTLE TAT MORE TIGHTLY THAN USUAL OF COURSE TO MAKE THE SIZE OF THOSE KNOTS CLOSE TO THE SIZE THEY WOULD BE WITH JUST ONE THREAD IN THE CORE I USE BLUE-TACK OR SCOTCH TAPE CAN'T WIND THE TAILA ROUND THE POST :) I USUALLY WORK THE TAIL IN ABOUT 6 DS OR SO (DEPENDS UPON THE SIZE OF HTE ATTING BEFORE CLOSING THE RING OR ENDING THE CHAIN) ACTUALLY I LEAVE MY TATTED-OVER ENDS UNCUT UTNIL I'VE FINISHED THE PIECE AND BLOCKED IT TOO SOMETIMES THEY WIGGLE OUT A BIT so you actually stick the end to your core thread and shutle thread? NO, I STICK THE TAIL TO THE SHUTTLE THAT'S ATTACHED TO THE CORE THREAD THAT'S MUD TOO I STICK IT TO THE SHUTTLE THAT I'LL USE IN MY RIGHT HAND THAT WAY IT'S NEARLY PARALLEL TO THE RING'S CORE THREAD AS I MAKE THE FIRST DS'S 04Mimi I found that if I leave the thread a little longer at the start it is eaiser to tat it into the pattern with the core thread ok, but can you separate the two ends one on one thread and the other onto the other thread, otherwise the section would be too thick THAT'S RIGHT BETTY THAT'S RIGHT GRACE USUALLY PATTERNS START WITH A RING FOLLOWED BY A CHAIN SO I'LL TAT OVER ONE TAIL INTO THE RING AND THE 2ND TAIL INTO THE FOLLOWING CHAIN 04I pick up the second thread on the next ring like of the four ring butterfly THAT WORKS TOO BETTY EXCEPT ON THE BUTTERFLY YOU LEAVE THE ENDS FOR ANTENNAE :)) BUT I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN 04at the last yes THE OTHER GOOD THING ABOUT LONG ENDS IS THAT SHOULD YOU FORGET TO TAT OVER THEM YOU WILL HAVE ENOUGH LEFT TO THREAD A NEEDLE AND SEW THEM IN I USED TO PRY APART KNOTS AND FORCE MY NEEDLE INTO THE CORE OF THE TATTING BUTY THIS PULLED IT OUT OF SHAPE THEN LILY AND TAMMY COOPERATED ON A DIAGRAMMED EXPLANATION FOR SEWING IN ENDS what do you mean by long? about 8 or 9 inches? AND I'VE NEVER DONE IT ANY WAY SINCE NOT QUITE THAT LONG SHERREE I ONLY NEED 3-4 INCHES WITH MY SHORT TAPESTRY NEEDLES BTW TAPESTRY NEEDLES ARE BETTER FOR SEWING IN ENDS lol ok that's normal for me BECAUSE THEY ARE BLUNT AND WONT' SPLIT THE THREADS http://www.frontiernet.net/~TammyRodgers/lilys_way.html THAT'S THE LINK THAT CHANGED MY TATTING LIFE :) I SHOULD SAY :SAVED IT THIS WAY OF POKING THE NEEDLE BETWEEN THE LEGS OF THE STITCHES DOES NOT DEFORM THE WORK ok i wrote it down AND THE END SNAPS INTO THE CORE OF THE WORK!