The Online Tatting Class http://www.chatzy.com/695768390662 Transcript as of Thu Jan 29 21:14:54 2009 GMT (54 KB) Page 1 of 2 - Char 1 to 51290 - Newest entries at the bottom ============================================================ AKTATTER from x.x.x.6 cleared the room 66 minutes ago Mimi: Thanks Georgia Mimi: NOW THAT WE'RE CLEAR, EVERYONE PLEASE SIGN IN Shanan: We have tons of snow here and it was still snowing a little while ago AKTATTER: ok the log is now ready for action by the beginners class! Mimi: Mimi Dillman, ntrop@ix.netcom.com, Everett WA USA Paule: Paule Primeau Boucherville Quebec Canada toujoursvivante@videotron.ca AKTATTER: Georgia Seitz Greenup IL USA AKTATTER@aol.com kempbarb: Barbara Jarvis kempbarb@embarqmail.com Dallas Texas AnneB: Anne Bruvold, Tromsų, Norway, solurab@online.no Margaret: Margaret I. Boos, maggiep54@sympatico.ca, London, Ontario, Canada, needle (this time round -shuttle last time) nanners: Nancy Merritt, Franklin, PA jane1615@verizon.net Shanan: Shanan Strode, Shanans3bs@yahoo.com, Charleston, IL Mimi: BEFORE WE START ON THIS WEEK'S LESSON, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS REMAINING FROM LAST WEEK? Thelma from x.x.x.240 joined the chat 64 minutes ago Flupigirl: FLupigirl(Patty) Soddy-Daisy, Tennessee PatttyBaranski@hotmail.com AKTATTER: WHAT???? Charleston Illinois???????Shanan??? Mimi: (SUBJECTS WERE PATTERN READING, RINGS, PICOTS) Margaret: phone Shanan: yup, that would be me LOL AKTATTER: oh my oh my you are so clse to me we must get together and tat Flupigirl: I have a question on the project for lesson two. Is that ok? Thelma: Thelma Bradhsaw,thelma_bradshaw@yahoo.com, Hot Springs, AR debinmtns from x.x.x.169 joined the chat 63 minutes ago Shanan: YES! I just have to find time since I homeschool three boys AKTATTER: May I address Thelma a moment? Mimi: LET'S GO OVER LESSON 2'S TECHS THEN SEE IF YOU STILL HAVE THE QUESTION Mimi: TODAY'S LESSON IS http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/lesson2.html debinmtns: debi marik sandpoint idaho nw.mtns @yahoo.com Karo from x.x.x.141 joined the chat 63 minutes ago Flupigirl: I homeschool three, also. AKTATTER: Whe doing single shuttle work the space of bare thread left between rings is important is that it shoudl be consistently the same length Mimi: HAS EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO READ OVER THE LESSON AND TRY SOME OF THE LINKS? BandLace from x.x.x.213 joined the chat 63 minutes ago debinmtns: yes Mimi: WE DID HAVE ONE PROBLEMATIC LINK THAT WAS FIXED THIS WEEK FOR THE FOLDED JOIN AKTATTER: cut a piece of cardboard and make a slit in the side that isthe length you want AKTATTER: place the first finished ring in theslit and measure the thread out to the end of the cardboard AKTATTER: make that your pinch. Thelma: ok Mimi: FIRST UP FOR LESSON 2: ORIENTING YOUR WORK AKTATTER: when doing a hen and chicks pattern, tat every other ring in reverse half stitich order to claer up that problem Margaret: are we asking questions? Shanan: We will have to chat sometime, Flupgirl AKTATTER: ok I'll be quiet now teach :) Mimi: THERE ARE A LOT OF TERMS THAT YOU WILL SEE USED FOR HOW TO MOVE YOUR WORK BETWEEN TATTED ELEMENTS Mimi: THE MOVE YOU WILL MAKE THE MOST IS "REVERSE WORK" Flupigirl: OK Shanan. kempbarb from x.x.x.218 joined the chat 61 minutes ago Margaret: in needle tatting, RW is turning from right to left, what is turning the work? Mimi: IN REVERSING YOUR WORK, THE TOP BECOMES THE BOTTOM, AND THE BOTTOM BECOMES THE TOP, AND THE SIDE THAT WAS AWAY FROM YOU NOW FACES YOU Mimi: YES THAT'S TURNING IN THIS CLASS'S TERMINOLOGY MARGARET Mimi: WELL MAYBE NOT AKTATTER from x.x.x.6 joined the chat 60 minutes ago Margaret: no, in Barbara's book she calls, for needle, RW, when your turn from right to left, make the teardrop and then put the needle through for the knot Mimi: NEEDLE TATTING EXPERT I'M NOT -WHAT DID YOU DO, GO FROM RING TO CHAIN (WHICH IS WHERE SHUTTLE TATTERS REVERSE WORK EACH TIME) AKTATTER: http://www.georgiaseitz.com/classes/turningwork.html Mimi: I STILL DON'T GET YOU MARGARET, TEARDROP? Mimi: THANK YOU GEORGIA, IT'S THE BEST ILLUSTRATION OF ALL THE DIFFERNET WAYS Mimi: CALSSIC LESSON AKTATTER: :) Mimi: CLASSIC TOO. Flupigirl: That page helped me a lot. Margaret: page 17 Mimi: OTHER WAYS THAT YOU MAY NEED TO ORIENT YOUR WORK ARE BY "TURNING" AS FLIPPING THE PAGE OF A BOOK AKTATTER: hooray that is what we love to hear!! Flupigirl: Can we just ask questions? Or do you want us to wait? Mimi: AND ROTATING - KEEP IT IN THE SAME PLANE, NO FLIPPING, Mimi: I FEEL SOME TIME PRESSURE TO MAKE IT TRHROUGH THE LESSON. I'M IN MY OFFICE AND MUST LOG OFF FOR 1PM Mimi: i'D RATHER FIELD QUESTION AT THE END OF EACH TOPIC Mimi: IF THAT'S OK? Margaret: to quote the caption beside the second picture, page 17, Barbara's book, " To Reverse (Rw) turn the ring over to the wrong side, right to left, as if you were turning a gpage ina book. AKTATTER: I'll be here to answer questions later Flupigirl: No problem. Mimi: IF EVERYONE HAS ALREADY READ THE LESSON AND COMPLETELY UNDERSTANDS ALL THE TOPIC S TEHN WE CAN HAVE OPEN QUESTIONS AnneB: I'll be able to stay a bit longer too, but am no needle tatter Mimi: MARARET THE TERMINOLOGY IS NOT STANDARD AS YOU HAVE JUST FOUND Karo: Hi AnneB Margaret: do you do needle, Georgia Paule: Me neiyher AKTATTER: yes Margaret: should we chat after the lesson, then? AnneB: Hi Karo Mimi: THE MAIN PART IS TO TAKE THE TIME TO READ THROUGH AND SEE IF THEY PROVIDE THE INFO DEFINE THEIR TERMS AKTATTER: all of us should learn both for different situations AKTATTER: ok Mimi: BARB OBVIOUSLY DID Margaret: my ice bag just fell off my foot Mimi: SO YOU'RE JUST RIGHT TO READ CRITICALLY AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS Mimi: OK HOW DID EVERYONE FEEL ABOUT LESSON 2 OVERALL? TOO EASY? Flupigirl: I thought it was great. Thelma: No, I have trouble with the Chick and Hens Shanan: I sometimes have to sit and think about that folded join Flupigirl: to ask about the join. Karo: i also had a hard time with H&C did figure it out though Flupigirl: That should say I need to ask about the join. Mimi: OK THEN LET'S GO TO JOINS IT'S NEXT ON THE LIST. THEN WE CAN TALK h&c. Paule: Benn tatting for 5 years and still have to think about the forlded join Mimi: WHICH JOIN FLUPGIRL? Mimi: I ALWAYS GET THE DIAGRAM OUT FOR FOLDED JOIN AnneB: I am mystified about the folded join too Mimi: EVEN AFTER 20 Mimi: DON'T DO IT ENOUGH (WE'LL FIND WAYS IN LESSON 4 TO AVOID IT) AKTATTER: 30 yrs tatting and I still take it slow with that darn folded join :) Shanan: good Karo: Linda Davis has a great video on folded joins Flupigirl: I don't know how to explain in writing, but I'll try. Paule: Hurrah! Mimi Flupigirl: I put the picot on top of my ring and pulled the thread up from the bottom. AKTATTER: the folded join is the best readon I know to learn the split ring early :) Mimi: FOR THOSE HAVING DIFFICULTY H&C TUTORIAL: http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/HandCTutorial.pdf Thelma: I didn't get to learn the folded join either Karo: 30 years tatting!! WOW AnneB: This one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELbqfybMqVU Flupigirl: Then I pput the shuttle through. Then I did the second half of my stictch. Mimi: AND FOLDED JOIN IS http://www.georgiaseitz.com/outwardfacingringsjoin.jpg Karo: thats the site i finally got H&C, now i love making it. Mimi: THAT'S RIGHT FLUPIGIRL Mimi: THE JOIN IS THE 1ST HALF OF YOUR DS Flupigirl: The ring still was able to close. Did I do it correctly? Mimi: YOU FINISH IT WITH THE 2ND HALF Margaret: when joining in needle, does it still count as part of the ds? Mimi: WAIT... HOW MANY RINGS DO YOU HAVE FLUPIGIRL? DO YOU HAVE ONE THAT IS DONE AND ANOTHER YOU ARE JOINING TO IT? Mimi: HOW DO YOU COUNT IT GEORGIA FOR NEEDLE? Karo: AnneB yep thats the one Mimi: I'M GLAD IT WORKED KARO AKTATTER: it is again a matter of personal perference AnneB: In that case I have been doing folded joins all the time... AKTATTER: soem prefer the join as the first half stitch followed by a regular second half stitich Flupigirl: The double stitch does not look like a stitch because it is intertwined with the picot. Is that right? AKTATTER: others perfer to count the join as nothing and do a complete double stitch AKTATTER: which ever you choose be consistent Mimi: THE DS INCLUDING A JOIN WILL LOOK DIFFERENT FROM A REGULAR DS Mimi: WITH GOOD TENSION, THEY RESEMBLANCE WILL GET CLOSER AnneB: That is the problem having to figure out things on your own - you dont learn the term. Flupigirl: Yes, I was joining to a second ring. I began working on the rink ribbon. Mimi: OK THEN I FEEL BETTER ABOUT MY ANSWER :) Mimi: DOES IT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? Margaret: on page 11, bold type, This does not count as part of the double stitch when Barbara is referring to a join Mimi: THANK YOU MARGARET Flupigirl: You mean don't count the join as part of a trio of stitches if that is what is called for? Margaret: so it is different between shuttle and needle? Mimi: MARGARET IS REFERRING TO NEEDLE TATTING Mimi: ARE YOU NEEDLE TATTING FLUPIGIRL? Mimi: NEEDLE TATTING JOINS CAN BE DIFFERENT FROM SHUTTLE TATTED JOINS BECAUSE YOU CAN PUT THE NEEDLE THROUGH THE PICOT Flupigirl: No, I am shuttle. Sorry for the confusion. Mimi: I'M AT MY OFFICE AND HAVE NO TATTING BOOKS TO FIND BARBARAS SO I DO NOT KNOW HOW THE JOIN WAS ACCOMPLISHED AKTATTER: Margaret, you don't actually have to make a join when doing the needle, just slide the picot over the end of the needle Margaret: I put the needle through, then loop the thread around the needle, and pull it back through the picot, and onto the needle Paule: Whose book are you talking about Margaret? Mimi: FOR THE JOIN FOR SHUTTLE TATTERS THE COMBINATION OF JOIN 2ND HALF DS = 1 STITCH AND IT COUNTS IN THE NEXT SET OF STITCHES AFTER THE JOIN AKTATTER: but that points to again personal preference Shanan: I never count joins as a stitch either so I have been doing it wrong? AKTATTER: Barbara Foster's needle tatting book Mimi: AS GEORGIA SAYS, IT'S PERSONAL PREFERNCE AKTATTER: it is NOT wrong, it is your preference Mimi: DOING IT ALL THE SAME WAY MAKE THE WORK LOOK BEST Margaret: "Learn Needle Tatting Step-by-Step" by Barbara Foster Mimi: I'M KIND OF LAZY MYSELF SO I COUNT THE JOIN Mimi: JOIN'S DS Paule: TY Shanan: ok. I think I will stick to what I have been doing then. Flupigirl: That is what I was doing. I was confused because the stitch didn't look like the others. Mimi: I FIND THAT LENGTHS OF DS'S BETWEEN PICOTS TEND TO BE THE SAME LENGTH AKTATTER: lazy?? Mimi? the tatter who tats clunies by the mile no way! AnneB: I use shuttle and still don't count the join as part of a stitch. Mimi: AND I DON'T HAVE AS MANY DS'S Mimi: SO I CAN CUT THE TIME WASTED ON CLUNIES lol AKTATTER: lol AnneB: :-D Mimi: CONSISTENCY THEN, THE REST IS PERSONAL CHOICE FOR JOINS Flupigirl: Very interesting. Thjis personal preference thing. Mimi: DALE POMEROY SAYS "YOU ARE THE ARTIST" Mimi: NAMELY, IF IT LOOKS GOOD TO YOU, YOU'VE DONE IT "RIGHT" Paule: We are all mavericks here Flupie Margaret: I am going to take a break, getting very frustrated, and will be back to chat to Georgia at end of session Mimi: FOLDED JOIN, DARE I BRING IT UP? Paule: do so AKTATTER: ok Mimi: http://www.georgiaseitz.com/outwardfacingringsjoin.jpg AnneB: k Flupigirl: I also notice that the first double stitch after a picot is smaller than the folowing stitches. Why? Shanan: If I think about it I can figure it out Thelma: please do, I didn't get to practice that one the link didn't work Mimi: THE LINK SHOULD WORK NOW, THELMA, GIVE IT A TRY Mimi: WE HAD SOME"ISSUES" LAST WEEK BUT IT'S FIXED NOW Thelma: i got it up Mimi: GREAT! Mimi: THE LAST JOIN OF SET OF RINGS ALL RADIATING FROM THE CENTER OF A FLOWER IS PROBLEMATIC Flupigirl: I didn't get to practice it either. Mimi: IF YOU LOOKED AT LINDA'S VIDEO, EVEN WITH CHAINS IT CAN BE DIFFICULT TOO Mimi: I WAS SELF TAUGHT AND DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT FOLDING FOR YEARS Mimi: I DID LIKE LINDA DID IN THE VIDEO Mimi: BUT FOLLOWING THE DIAGRAM - CAREFULLY - CAN SAVE YOU SOME STEPS Paule: Flupie your stitches wil get even as you get more practice Mimi: I SAY CAREFULLY BECAUSE IT IS EASY TO MISS A FEW WORDS AND NOT HAVE THREADS IN THE RIGHT PLACE Flupigirl: Thank you. Mimi: WHEN FOLDING, THE OLD WORK GETS FOLDED UNDER THENEW RING Mimi: SO THAT THE BACK OF THOSE RINGS IS FACING YOU Flupigirl: When would you use a folded ring? Shanan: ok so far Mimi: IN A CONFINED SPACE CAUSED BY MAKING A FLOWER OF RINGS ALL STARTING AT THE CENTER OF THE FLOWER SUCH AS IN THE DIAGRAM Mimi: THESE ARE COMMON CETNERS OF SNOWFLAKES AND DOILIES Flupigirl: Is the outward facin ring the same as a folded ring? Mimi: AND EVEN STAND-ALONES JOINED TOGETHER Mimi: NO, BUT WHEN DOING OUTWARD FACING RINGS, YOU MAY FIND THAT YOU HAVE TO DO A FOLDED *JOIN* Mimi: WEHRE DID YOU FIND FOLDED RINGS/ Mimi: BACK TO THE FOLDED MOTIF Mimi: THE THREADS STAY ON TOP Mimi: YOU PUT THE HOOK INTO THE PICOT OF RING 1 FROM TOP TO BOTTOM Mimi: READ UP AND GRAB THE THREAD Mimi: AND PULL THROUGH AKTATTER: a pattern to practice this type of join = http://www.georgiaseitz.com/classes/superbowl.pdf Mimi: PULLING THROUGH IS TOWARD YOU Mimi: THEN YOU CAN PUT THE SHUTTLE THROUGH Mimi: THIS IS THE PART TO BE CAREFUL Mimi: MAKE SURE THREAD AND TATTING DON'T GET CAUGHT UP IN EACH OTHER Mimi: AND COMPLETE THE RING WITH THE MOTIF FOLDED AS IT WAS. Mimi: THEN YOU CAN CLOSE THE RING Mimi: I RECOMMEND CHECKING THE JOIN BEFORE CLOSING TO MAKE SURE YOU LIKE IT Mimi: EASIER TO RETRO BEFORE THE RING IS CLOSED THAN AFTER! AKTATTER: that is very true Mimi: PRETTY SNOWFLAKE GEORGIA, AN EXCELLENT ONE FOR HOMEWORK IN THIS LESSON TOO Mimi: LOOKS TO ME LIKE EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THE SKILLS FOR IT Flupigirl: Speaking of that. Thelma: The needle would need to go through the loop also??? AKTATTER: and a sneaky way to invite all the beginners to the superbowl sunday tatting event Shanan: thanks for the pattern Flupigirl: Is it possible to open a ring after it is closed/ Mimi: HAVE YOU POSTED THIS WEEK'S PATTERN? AnneB: But I tend to discover errors after closing... have some practise in opening closed rings... AKTATTER: 2 pm and 7pm ET Mimi: YES FLUPI Mimi: WITH CARE AND PATIENCE AKTATTER: Sunday patterns not up yet Mimi: I USUALLY PULL APART THE LEGS OF THE LAST PICOT OR JOIN TO GET TO THE CORE THREAD Mimi: THEN WITH THE RING IN MY PINCH TO KEEP THAT LAST STITCH FROM FLIPPING BACK (KNOTTING), I PULL THE CORE THREAD Mimi: THAT ALLOWS ME TO LOOSEN THE RING AND UNDO SOME DS'S Flupigirl: I got to the fifth ring on the pink ribbon pattern and joined the fifth ring to the wrong one. Shanan: is that 2pm E time? AKTATTER: right 2 pm ET New York time Flupigirl: I can't get my shuttle through. Mimi: THANKS GEORGIA. WE SHOULD ALL KEEP WATCHING http://www.georgiaseitz.com/2009/2009index.html Shanan: Ok so I need to be there at 1pm Mimi: SHUTTLE THROUGH WHERE? AKTATTER: right Shanan Mimi: LAST IS SINGLE THREAD TATTING Mimi: WHERE YOU HAVE JUST THE SHUTTLE AND THREAD Mimi: AND ARE NOT MAKING CHAINS BETWEEN THE RINGS Flupigirl: I don't know. I don't know why I can't get the ring to open. Mimi: (BY THE WAY EVERYONE HAS CHAINS DOWN?) Mimi: GEORGIA CAN YOU HELP ON THE OPENING RINGS PART? Thelma: yea Paule: Flupie to open rings get some fine-pointes tweezers AKTATTER: sure Paule: fine-pointed AKTATTER: later or now? Shanan: your ds may have flipped Flupigirl: The ring thread won't budge. Mimi: I THINK WE CAN TYPE OVER EACH OTHER? AKTATTER: ok Mimi: SOUNDS LIKE THE LAST DS HAS BECOME KNOTTED AKTATTER: my thoughts on opening a closed ring AKTATTER: 1. dont't Mimi: DOING RINGS ONLY YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL AKTATTER: 2. don't Mimi: AND MAKE SURE YOU CAN RECOGNIZE WHEN YOU REVERSE YOUR WORK Mimi: IT CAN BE TOUGH TO BEGIN AKTATTER: 3. ok oif you really must open it do this Flupigirl: I'm laughing. Mimi: IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHICH WAY TO ORIENT THE WORK AKTATTER: 1. lay the ring down on the table Paule: me too Mimi: THEN YOU'LL BE LOST Mimi: THE LAST RING YOU DID AKTATTER: note first ds and last ds and nay picots Mimi: WILL HAVE PANTS LEGS OVER THE LEGS OF THE PICOT AKTATTER: go to the picot Mimi: ON THE SIDE FACING YOU Mimi: ON THE SIDE THAT WAS FACING YOU WHEN YOU MADE THE RING AKTATTER: stretch the legs of the picot aprat Mimi: ON THE REVERSE SIDE OF THAT RING AKTATTER: see the bare core thread? Mimi: YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE ARE NO PANTS LEGS OVER THE LEGS' Mimi: PANTS LEG ERASE THAT AKTATTER: use point of shuttle, crochet hook, blunt tapestry needle tweezers, or hackle pliers Mimi: belt Mimi: 2 PANTS LEGS AND A BELT = DS Margaret: Georgia, is it the same to open a ring in needle? Mimi: JEEPERS Paule: fine-pointed tweezers Mimi: EVERYONE CONFUSED AND I NEED TO START OVER ON STRUCTURE? AKTATTER: to grasp the thread and pull toward the start of the ring Mimi: NO ONE CALLED ME ON THAT!! Shanan: No I understand I think AKTATTER: ye margaret any ring Shanan: wait...maybe not Paule: just as it was getting VERY interesting I have to leave Mimi: SO FOR PICOTS, SIDE THAT FACES YOU DURING THE MAKING HAS *BELTS* OVER THE PICOT LEGS AKTATTER: note that the thread exiting the ring and going to the shuttle moves a bit AKTATTER: pull again gently Mimi: NO BELTS OVER PICOT LEGS ON THE OTHER SIDE AKTATTER: and again Mimi: WHEN YOU REVERSE WORK Paule: doctor's appointment Mimi: THE LAST RING WILL THEREFORE HAVE BELTLESS PICTOS Mimi: OK Paule: Bye AKTATTER: if using crochet hook be careful not to split the core thread Shanan: I thought that's what you meant Mimi: FOR H&C Mimi: YOU'LL BE MAKING A RING, REVERSING, AND MAKING ANOTHER RING ALLL ALONG Mimi: THE TRICK WILL ALSO BE Mimi: TO ONLY JOIN THE ALTERNATING RINGS TO EACH OTHER Mimi: SO YOU GET 2ROWS OF RINGS Mimi: PATTERN IS AT http://www.georgiaseitz.com/classes/henchicks.jpg AKTATTER: now once there is a little slack keep pulling until you can open the ring AKTATTER: remember to always pull back to the start to get slack in the ring Shanan: I do like that pattern it is so pretty AKTATTER: then you can do the frog stitch to fix the problem Mimi: TUTORIAL IS http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/HandCTutorial.pdf SHOWING STEP BY STEP PHOTOS AKTATTER: got it ok ? Mimi: OF WHAT THE WORK LOOKS LIKE IN PROGRESS Mimi: PATTERN STARTS WITH A SMALL RING Shanan: That tutorial was a huge help!!! Margaret: that is where I have difficulty opening a closed ring -- I can get a short piece of thread but can't lenghten it Mimi: CLOSE, REVERSE WORK, THEN MAKE ANOTHER RING Mimi: THIS TIME A LITTLE LARGER WITH 3 PICOTS AKTATTER: Margaret can you try again and concentrate on where you are pulling the thread Mimi: THESE 3 PICOT (OK 1 JOIN 2 PICOT) RINGS WILL ALL RUN TOGETHER ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE LACE Mimi: NOW YOU HAVE A FLOPPY 2 RING STRUCTURE AKTATTER: but in needle tatting it should be easier thatn shuttle tatting Thelma: that's good to hear Mimi: MAKE A LARGE RING 4 DS, JOIN TO THE SMALL RING, THEN COMPLETE WITH 2-2-2-2-4 AND THEN CLOSE THE RING Mimi: GIT Mimi: OOPS Mimi: YOU'LL REVERSE WORK AGAIN Margaret: I have not had much experience in opening closed rings in needle -- more in shuttle Mimi: THE 3-PICOT RING IS ON TOP AND HAS THE FORWARD SIDE UP Mimi: BELTS ACROSS PICOT LEGS) AKTATTER: you can also use the point of your tatting needle to loosen the last ds made and continue around back toward the start Mimi: SO YOU'LL MAKE 4DS, JOIN TO THAT 3-P RING, 4-4-4 AND CLOSE Mimi: RW Mimi: SMALL RING 4DS JOIN TO THE LAST P OF THE GREAT BIG RING, 4DS CLOSE Mimi: RW Mimi: 3-P RING Mimi: AND SO ON Mimi: THERE IS A NEW SYMBOL IN THIS PATTERN AKTATTER: you can also unthread the needle and work the thread backwards Mimi: THE SIGN OVER THE - SIGN Margaret: I found that when retrotatting chains in needle, I could just lift up the one thread that runs straight across Mimi: THAT'S FOR BREVITY IN THE DIAGRAM Mimi: AND PATTERN Mimi: IT MEANS THAT IN THE FIRST INSTANCE (WHEN THERE'S NO WORK YET) YOU'LL MAKE A PICOT AKTATTER: yes ! it is the same process in the ring Mimi: BUT FOR ALL OTHER RINGS IN THAT POSIITON IN THE REPEAT Mimi: THERE WILL BE A JOIN Mimi: IF YOU CAN READ DIAGRAMS AKTATTER: are you working with just the needle or with needle and ball? Mimi: THEN YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE THAT RING AND UNDERSTAND HOW THE NEXT REPEAT JOINS TO THE FIRST Flupigirl: I sorry Georgia. I got mixed up with Mimi's directions. Shanan: that makes sense kempbarb from x.x.x.218 joined the chat 20 minutes ago AKTATTER: :) Mimi: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT HENS & CHICKS, THE MOST CLASSIC ANTIQUE EDGING? Shanan: I don't think so Flupigirl: laid my work on th etable and spread apart my picot's leags. Then what do I do? Margaret: in the lesson on hiding tails, it says "for needle tatters, ... input from Katia" but nothing else and no link Mimi: LAST PART OF THE LESSON IS ABOUT DEALING WITH THREAD ENDS AKTATTER: grasp the bare core thread you see there Mimi: KATIA NEVER WROTE IT, SORRY Mimi: WE HOPE TO HAVE A VOLUNTEER TO WRITE SOME ABOUT IT IN TIME Mimi: SHE ALWAYS DID SAY THAT AKTATTER: pull some thread toward the start of the ring Mimi: YOU CAN TAT OVER TAILS WHEN NEEDLE TATTING Flupigirl: I've got it. Mimi: I HAVE NOT ACCOMPLISHED IT YET Mimi: BUT I BELIEVE THAT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO CAST ON EACH HALF LOOSELY Mimi: THEN GUIDE THE THREAD END INTO AND THROUGH THAT HALF AKTATTER: http://www.georgiaseitz.com/classes/ends.html Mimi: SO THAT IT FOLLOWS THE PATH OF THE NEEDLE AKTATTER: http://groups.msn.com/NeedleTattingTwo/addingonthreads.msnw AKTATTER: www.georgiaseitz.com/classes2001/fall2001/addthread.pdf AKTATTER: http://www.georgiaseitz.com/classes2001/fall2001/drakemt.html Margaret: Georgia, is that thread that runs straight across in chains in needle tatting, the 'bare core thread'? AKTATTER: http://www.georgiaseitz.com/rodgers/carnation.html Mimi: MARGARET DID YOU EVER TAT OVER TAILS WHEN YOU SHUTTLE TATTED? AKTATTER: yes Margaret that is exactly right AKTATTER: those are all links to hlep with hiding ends Margaret: no, I tried but was never successful. tape failed -- attached to shuttle Mimi: MY FAVORITE TECHNIQUE TO AVOID ENDS IS THE SIMPLEST: Mimi: DON'T CUT THE SHUTTLE FROM THE BALL AFTER WINDING! Mimi: THEN YOU DON'T HAVE ENDS! Mimi: PRETTY SIMPLE AKTATTER: lol you bet! Mimi: BUT SOMEONE (JUDI??) INVENTED A BIG NAME FOR IT Mimi: AND GAVE IT A 3-LETTER ACRONYM TO BOOT: CTM (CONTINUOUS THREAD METHOD) Margaret: when a pattern says to start by tying two ends together, can you start with CTM? AKTATTER: or use two shuttles with one acting as the ball thread Shanan: I tat over the ends by poking the ends thru my loops as I flip them Mimi: DEPENDS ON THE PATTERN MARGARET AKTATTER: http://members.aol.com/SLWelker/ctm.html Mimi: THAT'S TATTNIG OVER TAILS SHANAN AKTATTER: ah great minds Maragaret Mimi: IF YOU ARE USING BALL AND SHUTTLE, THEN YES Mimi: IF YOU HAVE 2 COLORS, THEN YOU CANNOT START CTM Mimi: IF YOU ARE USING 2 COLORS AND 2 SHUTTLES, TRY WINDING THE 2ND SHUTTLE Mimi: WITH A LENGTH OF THE SAME THRAED Mimi: SO THAT THE 2 SHUTTLES ARE CONNECTED BY THE SAME THREAD Margaret: I have also been unsuccessful in poking the ends up and down through the loops Mimi: SOMETIMES YOU FORGET TO TAT OVER TAILS Mimi: OR YOU HAVE THE 2 THREADS AT THE END Margaret: do you have to tie a knot first or is this to prevent having to use a knot? Mimi: WHAT YOU DO WITH THOSE ENDS IS A MATTER OF PERSONAL PREFERENCE AKTATTER: Margaret have you ever done the split ring? Mimi: PERSONAL PREFERENCE MARGARET Margaret: oh yes, AKTATTER: knots are to be avoided I think Mimi: MANY OF US TRY TO AVOID EXTRA KNOTS TO AVOID UNSIGHTLY LUMPS IN THE WORK Mimi: BUT SOMETIMES YOU HAVE THREADS LEFT Mimi: THIS IS ONE WAY TO SEW THEM IN: http://www.frontiernet.net/~TammyRodgers/lilys_way.html Margaret: I tatted Tatman's mortarboard pattern for my nephew's BA graduation last June -- split ring in that AKTATTER: if you hold your thread tails just right you can cover them by direct tatting whcih is just wrapping the thread on not tatting it on Shanan: I need a much smaller needle to do this. I tried but the needle was too big Mimi: DEPENDING UPON THE USE OF THE ITEM, YOU CAN LEAVE THEM CUT AND GLUE THEM TO THE BACK (EEK BUT IF NO ONE IS GOING TO SEE, WHO WILL KNOW) AKTATTER: look at these photos later Margaret they may give you ideas Mimi: I USUALLY KEEP SIZE 24 AND 26 TAPESTRY NEEDLES HANDY Mimi: I CAN GET UP TO SIZE 20 THREAD THRU AKTATTER: http://www.georgiaseitz.com/2003/encap/encap.html Mimi: AND HAVING THE BLUNT END KEEPS ME FROM SPLITTING THREADS Mimi: IF YOU USE LILY'S WAY YOU DO HAVE TO WATCH THAT YOU DO NOT PUT THE NEEDLE THROUGH A THREAD, ONLY BETWEEEN Mimi: THE SUCCESS DEPENDS ON TEH THREAD SNAPPING BACK TO THE INSIDE OF THE STITCHES WHEN YOU TUG THE END Margaret: I need to chat with you Georgia after Mimi returns to work about RW, turn, etc. Mimi: IT'S GOTTEN TO 1 PM Mimi: SO I' NEED TO WRAP UP MY PORTION Mimi: SORRY TO MISS THEQ UESTION ABOUT ONE OF TODAY'S PATTERNS Mimi: CAN YOU TYPE IT IN NOW WHILE I GIVE INSTRUCITONS FOR NEXT WEEK? AKTATTER: thank you so much for your hard work here Mimi you're a real trooper! Mimi: NEXT WEEK'S LESSON IS : http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/lesson3.html Shanan: Thank you Mimi AnneB: Thank you Mimi! Mimi: PLEASE READ IT OVER IN ADVANCE, AND IF YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAT SOME OF THE ITEMS, PLEASE DO Margaret: thank you, Mimi, was this your lunch hour? Thelma: Thank you Mimi,,I believe my question was answered Mimi: YES IT IS, I'M USING THE OFFICE COMPUTER (EEK) Mimi: REALLY THELMA?? I'M SO GLAD AKTATTER: that is very nice of them Mimi: DON'T TELL :) Mimi: Y'ALL BE NICE TO ANNE AND GEORGIA WITH THE REST OF YOUR QUESTIONS Margaret: did you get to eat? AKTATTER: ok mum's the word Mimi: IF ANY OF YOU WILL ATTEND TONIGHT Mimi: I HEATED UP LUNCH BEFORE I LOGGEDI N Mimi: TONIGHT JANE WILL BE TEACHING Margaret: Eborall? Mimi: JANE ARMSTRONG FROM NORTH CAROLINA AKTATTER: oh is this her first "solo"? Mimi: YES IT IS, A LITTLE BIT EARLY Mimi: BUT SHE HAS BEEN PREPARING ALL WEEK AnneB: I'll be fast asleep Mimi: SHE'S THE ONE THAT REMINDED ME TO FIX THE FOLDED JOIN JPEG AKTATTER: 9PM ET? Mimi: YES YOU WILL ANNE Mimi: YES 9PM ET HERE Mimi: SAME CLASSROOM AKTATTER: ok then thanks again Mimi Margaret: I will be here and I can practise between now and then Mimi: THANKS AGAINF OR ATTENDING ALL Mimi: SEE YOU NEXT WEEK Mimi: HAVE A GOOD ONE! AKTATTER: NOW IT IS TIME FOR "STUMP THE TEACHER" Margaret: thanks, Mimi, back to the grind!!! Mimi from x.x.x.11 left the chat 7 minutes ago Thelma: For needle tatting is the true ring the basic ring we make?? Almost forgot about that AKTATTER: AKTATTER IS TAKING ANY QUESTIONS Flupigirl: Thank you Mimi and everyone. You've been really helpful. AKTATTER: RINGS ARE RINGS, IN SHUTTLE TATTING WE FORM THEM ONE WAY Shanan: Flupie did you get your ring open? Margaret: the way I read Barbara's book, I learned the true ring first, and after that most rings are SCMR but not if following a single shuttle pattern Flupigirl: I am going to cut my ribbon and start all over. AKTATTER: IN NEEDLE TATTING YOU HAVE THE OPTION OF FORMING THEM 2 WAYS Shanan: oh no!! AnneB: Allmost forgot this: A nice way of adding new thread (you'd need that from time to time): http://sharonstattedlace.blogspot.com/2008/11/adding-in-new-thread.html Flupigirl: I can't get it open. I don't know why. I tried and tried. AKTATTER: RINGS MADE WITH A CUT THREAD ARE "TRUE" RINGS Thelma: oh ok AKTATTER: NEEDLE TATTED RINGS WITH A SEPARATE CORE THREAD ARE REALLY SELF CLOSING MOCK RINGS Margaret: in this lesson (2) there is a pdf from Katia about making true rings off the ball Shanan: is that last ds locked? Sometimes the last half of the ds will flip and then it wont open Shanan: what size thread to you have flupie? Flupigirl: Size 20 AKTATTER: any other questions? Margaret: yes, Shanan: If it's not soo small of a size you might be able to look and see if that last ds looks like the others AKTATTER: ok AKTATTER: ps a magnifying glass is a handy tool for the TBK, tatter's basic kit Shanan: great point! Margaret: in Barbara's book, RW is turning from right to left, as if turning a page in a book AKTATTER: yes Flupigirl: Shanan, I think I did the stitcheds correctly because I was able to close the ring. It's no big deal. Maybe something is wrong and I can't see it. I 'll try again. Margaret: then what is a 'turn' for needle and 'rotate' AKTATTER: ah Shanan: ok. I know how frustrating it can be to get part way thru a project and have to scrape it Margaret: I have a pattern (shuttle) that I would like to make, (needle) but it uses 'turn' and I don't know how to do that with a needle AKTATTER: rw = reverse work in needle tatting happens, when you move the ring so that the front is the back and the bottom becomes then top Shanan: Well, I need to go. I have a couple of little boys needing a snack, lol Margaret: bye, Shanan, good to have you here Shanan: Good luck Flupie! Flupigirl: I had just about seven rings on it. It looked pretty good for a beginner.. Shanan: Thanks Margaret AKTATTER: turn = moving the ring like it was a page of a book from right to left to form the pear shaped opening into which you insert the needle and tie off Flupigirl: Thanks Shanan. I have to take my girls to dance. Thank you all. See you next week. AnneB: Flupigirl: sometimes the last stitch "unflips" as you have just closed the ring. Shanan from x.x.x.22 left the chat 91 minutes ago AKTATTER: rotate = taking a completely closed and tied off ring and moving it for example so that the bottom of the ring (like a clock face) which is at 6 oclock moves to the 9 oclcok position Margaret: now I am confused. Barbara on page 17 uses reverse when she refers to threads crossing and forming the tear drop AKTATTER: so that the next tatted element can begin in a direction other than normal AKTATTER: it is all one process, to rw/turn like a book in the closing of a ring needle style Margaret: I understand rotate -- no problem AKTATTER: ok Margaret: so in needle then, RW and turn are the same? Thelma: I don't think they would be the same Margaret: if I am following a pattern for shuttle that says turn, what do I do with the needle? AKTATTER: basically, but there is oftern confusion because some tatters use one term and others and other term for the same action AnneB: This is why it is imprtand to descibe the phrases, two people can mean different things using the same word. AKTATTER: if the shuttle pattern says turn, then consider first what type of tatted element comes next AKTATTER: so true anne AKTATTER: is it saying turn because you are supposed to close the ring and go on to another element Margaret: I would like to tat the flat butterfly in Monica Hahn's book, "Christmas Angels and Other Tatting Patterns' but it is downstairs, and with this injured foot, too difficult to climb 14 steps down and up just to get it AKTATTER: does it want you to turn as in front/back style tatting where you would work on the back side of the work in reverse half stitch order? AKTATTER: let me look at the pattern i have it here AnneB: Ups - forgot that I have to empty the wahing machine and hanging up the clothes before going to bed! Margaret: k AKTATTER: ah the 3-d butterfly? Thelma from x.x.x.240 joined the chat 85 minutes ago AKTATTER: or the flat butterfly? AKTATTER: good night anne AKTATTER: do you recall which it is margaret? Thelma: good night anne AnneB: I might be back next week, but am not sure as I'l be way south until Wednesday and will be going to a school outside town on Thursday - it might be a bit too much... AKTATTER: have a super and safe trip Thelma: stay safe Margaret: flat butterfly AKTATTER: we'll look forward to seeing you soon, oh btw I've added another dragon to the 2009 index page :) AKTATTER: flat ok AnneB: Thanks! See you in one or two weeks! Bye all! Thelma: bye AnneB: leave/ AnneB from x.x.x.219 left the chat 83 minutes ago AKTATTER: ok the butterfly begins with a round center ring AKTATTER: but i suggest making it a split ring instead Margaret: I am going to write this down AKTATTER: teh second rounds i salternating large and small rings AKTATTER: the small rings join to the picot od the round center ring AKTATTER: the large rings join to each other EXCEPT AKTATTER: the 4th and 5th large ring do not and the 1st and last larger ring do not AKTATTER: that makes the separation for the wings possible Margaret: I remember AKTATTER: the last large ring anchors to the bottom of one of the small rings at the top AKTATTER: and one more ring is made that = the head AKTATTER: for the wing AKTATTER: one side at a time AKTATTER: join to the first picot on the upper large ring (it has 3 free standing picos on it) AKTATTER: and begin and alternating ring and chain pattern around AKTATTER: joinin to the middle picots on the large rings AKTATTER: then rw AKTATTER: and tat back the way you came AKTATTER: all chains with picots AKTATTER: chain over to where the "neck" of the head ring is AKTATTER: doa capture join AKTATTER: then chain over the the first picot of the large ring on the opposite side Margaret: for me, that RW would be to turn from right to left as turning a page in a book, forming a tear drop and putting the needle through? AKTATTER: repeat wing pattern Margaret: what is a capture join? AKTATTER: and you will be working back the way you came and not continuing on in the same direction in this case AKTATTER: tp://www.georgiaseitz.com/2007/alligatorjoin.html AKTATTER: opps http://www.georgiaseitz.com/2007/alligatorjoin.html AKTATTER: it is not a join at all AKTATTER: like the jaws of an alligator, take one thread over the "neck" and AKTATTER: one thread under the "neck" AKTATTER: make the next ds a strangle hold and continue the chain AKTATTER: the antennae are make separately and attach to the picots on the head ring AKTATTER: any other questions? Margaret: yes AKTATTER: ok Margaret: in this lesson, I looked at that pdf about true rings off the ball. It was confusing to me. Margaret: can I go from a true ring to a SCMR when using off the ball? AKTATTER: in Mimi's lessons or in the book from BArbara? Margaret: in lesson 2 of the beginner's site -- the one we did today Thelma: It was a pdf file AKTATTER: yes you can complete a regular ring and follow it with a scmr Margaret: there was a section to/from true rings -- a pdf by Katia Margaret: so you don't have to have a piece of thread CUT from the ball to make a true ring? AKTATTER: ah i took your question out of context AKTATTER: in tatting a pattern, using 2 or more threads, either shuttle or needle style AKTATTER: yes you can go from a regular ring to a scmr AKTATTER: in the situation where you are using only one thread, a cut thread AKTATTER: then no I do not believe you can go from a ring to s scmr becasue the scmr requires two threads to create it AKTATTER: a cut thread can be used in two ways Margaret: then on page 12 (Barbara's book) one shuttle is very important to always working with thread CUT off the ball AKTATTER: you can either have a very one cut thread and long core thread thru the eye AKTATTER: and that would be just like having a ball to work from, and thus rings and chains are possbile AKTATTER: is the case you bring the closest part of the thread up tot he needle to begin wrapping AKTATTER: but AKTATTER: with a shorter cut thread and shorter core thread thru the needle's eye AKTATTER: you bring the very tail end of the cut thread up to the needle AKTATTER: and you literally work the thread back towards the eye AKTATTER: yes in that instance the cut thread would = one shuttle work Margaret: this is something I have just not been able to master Margaret: in the first part of Barbara's book, she is using cut thread and then talks about adding thread. I have not been able to master this AKTATTER: it is becasue you are working back toward the eye of the needle it makes it awkward perhaps? AKTATTER: if you have a pattern you are working as a sample of this Margaret: it is page 13 AKTATTER: scan it and send to me AKTATTER: I will be happy to help you get through it AKTATTER: I do not have that book on hand sorry Margaret: I am just trying to follow the book and have reached the end of my thread in the bookmark and don't know how to add more so I can continue so the bookmark will be a good length AKTATTER: just leave long tail hanging AKTATTER: cut another piece of thread and begin the patter where you left off AKTATTER: afterwards you can hide the end in the completed work AKTATTER: that is one shuttle type work right? all rings? Margaret: in needle tatting, I have used a tapestry needle, threaded the end and slipped them under the ds. Is this okay? AKTATTER: yes a perfect way to do it Margaret: yes -- one shuttle, all rings AKTATTER: ok AKTATTER: any other questions? Margaret: I guess I will have to reread that pdf from Katia. I found it confusing Thelma: I will probably have some more next week for you...thank you so much AKTATTER: I will go read it also and we can talk again about it. OK? Margaret: will you be here next week? or tonight? AKTATTER: tonight but yo can email me any time AKTATTER@aol.com Margaret: I have your email address in my favourites AKTATTER: :) Margaret: how do I sign out of here? AKTATTER: type /bye Margaret: good night and thanks for the extra time Margaret from x.x.x.214 left the chat 60 minutes ago AKTATTER: goodnight Thelma: yes thank you so much AKTATTER: Thelma did you have any other questions? Thelma: I am going to reread what you were telling me at the beginning of the lesson. I think I will understand what you were telling me Thelma: on the Hen and Chicks AKTATTER: ok well email me any time then take care goo dnight AKTATTER from x.x.x.6 left the chat 58 minutes ago Thelma: bye Thelma from x.x.x.240 left the chat 58 minutes ago ============================================================ Created at Chatzy.com