Session Start: Wed Apr 19 17:47:50 2006 Session Ident: #tatchat * Now talking in #tatchat Good evening! 06are you anita h, the instructor? 06hey, mimi yes i am hi mimi 06and mimi d, i presume... 06:-) That's correct... which Grits? 06charlene Hello then Charlene and welcome 06thanks! Which town in SC? 06rock hill * Tatter has joined #tatchat 06near the border of nc - near Carowinds 06do you know the area? Not very well, I'm afraid. I was just checking the map. You're closer to Charlotte than Columbia@ But I do love grits, grew up eating them in TX 06yes - 25 to charlotte, 85 to columbia 06do you know grits = girl raised in the south? * Tatter has quit IRC (Quit: Tatters 4 forever!) That's right, I'd forgotten. I'm in the Grits category then. 06still in TX? Nope, moved to Washington State 15 years ago... found I liked it a little cooler than Houston And a little less flat :) My husband is from up here. 06this is the first class; right? Yes, it is. Have you had a look at the lesson yet? 06yes That's great. Are you learning needle or shuttle? charlene did it all make sense or is there something in there you need help with? looks like you are the class tonight lol 06needle. 06wow - that's quite the ratio, isn't it? :-) hey you cant loose lol... That's right, 2 teachers, one student, you should get all your questions answered! i may not be able to think right at the moment but with mimi here too ;) 06you should go to bed ! been in bed all day couldnt sleep now if i tried Poor Anita! Got a bug? 06is the SCMR what i'm doing when the needle goes through the loop? caught my kids cold...... why they have to bring the bad ones home and not the mild ones i will never know Oh well, Let's sign in. Mimi Dillman, Snohomish, WA, ntrop@ix.netcom.com (this is part of the ritual, Charlene, that all attending sign in, t hen we start the lesson) anita hobden, london ontario, ahobden@hotmail.com 06Charlene Ogle, Rock Hill, SC, csogle@yahoo.com Ok, now to answer your question Charlene.... Yes :) SCMR you pull the needle through your stitches (which started out as a chain) and then pass your needle through the loop before you tighten the chain The needle tatter's ring is hte shuttle tatter's "SCMR" you dont often see a "true" ring in needle tatting it takes too much thread on your needle but the 'true' ring (ha, you can tell I'm a shuttle tatter first) is useful for needle tatters too for single thread tatting deffinatly :) but that's another lesson LOL So Charlene, you sound like you know some needle tatting already. What have you tried? charlene have you tried the patterns in lesson 1? 06yes, i made the dove - he's a bit tilted, but got the theory That's great!

needle. i know ds, p, ring and chain, but slowly you missed this part of our chat earlier mimi lol 06right now i think the biggest problem is keeping Ooops soory. Well, speed is not a requirement, only enjoyment. basically lesson 1 is covered 06the work going the same way that comes with practice ?? does it twist around your needle, is that what you mean? 06seems like it flips, even though i think i'm doing the shoestring thing as does the speed when using a needle you have to be more careful to hold the elements before you tighten your threads that is part of "forming" the chain or ring as you tighten them try making sure you have the last element you did pinched in your fingers as you work so they dont flip does this make sense? 06hold them between my middle finger and thumb as adding new stitches? With the thread running through the core of the stitches, sometimes over controlling like anita describes is the best way to keep control. 12yes Right Charlene. I call that "the pinch" Except at "closing time" the pinch is not as important to needle tatters as shuttle tatters. * Tatter has joined #tatchat And I use my index finger and thumb. But I'm self-taught and not very good at crochet 12welcome tatter Either way works, t hough * Tatter is now known as Craff Hey, Craffie!! * Craff is now known as CraffHi 12hi craff! We were just getting started with Charlene, another needle tatter. 06hey, craff We were talking about keeping control of the work - keeping it from twisting - when\ hi all tensioning - pulling the needle through, I mean finger or shuttle oic...just read back...lol 06i use my index to make the picots and hold the current stitches; right? * Tatter has joined #tatchat 12that is what i do yes 12you will find everyone has slightly different ways of comming up with the same thing..... This is my first class and first time in this type of chat Hello But the end look of the tatting is the same. Welcome tatter. Can you change your nick? 12ie methods of holding their stitches and such I can't contribute much tonight. I had to start some eye treatments and haven't done a thing about tatting Okay 12np craff I don't know how. My name is Kate hi tatter * CraffHi is now known as Craff 12kate type your name in the space at lower right corner and hit enter * Craff is now known as Craffi there we go..lol 00The lower right hand corner has Font and colors Good job Craffi even with eye treatments... your fingers still work 12kate have you had a chance to look at lesson 1 yet? 06class how to questions: do we just work along on something and ask questions as they come up? * Craffi is now known as Craff Usually yes Charlene, but with the late arrivals, we're a little bit discombobulated Usually either Anita or I will start the lecture, with students jumping in with questions. But since you were alone, we could just go straight to your question! 00I looked at the lesson but am so confused I haven't done anything 12especially since you knew so much already :) Also, since this is the first lesson, Anita and I need to know more about people's level of knowledge and if needle or shuttle Craff we met last week. She's done some needle tatting as a challenge. i do have a question...but maybe i just didn't read far enough To her self, that is Sure Craff 06hey, kate. i see that you typed something ini white - when you slide the qork off of the needle onto the thread coming from the needle 06click on one of the colors to change your text to another color 00Hello how long athread do you leave, as doesn't that determine how much work you can do 12kate i could only read part of the first message..... below "change nick to" is a white space 12type your name there Anita, what's your advice? Longest thread you cna stand for arm-length and tangle prevention? the length of the tatting, in other words? 12and hit enter You are correct, Craff, the length of your needle thread will determine how far you go before * Tatter is now known as Kate you have to tie in a new thread. ok,,thnx All right Kate! NExt, your font color 12i would suggest no longer than arm length at first 12you can try longer as you get used to it then you;d have to leave a lot more than my directions said to make a row of edging...right? 07,04Okay I think I have it I can certainly read that, Kate LOL. 00,04I'm sorry about this You'll get it. Not necessarily, CRaff. What happens is you'll tat to the end of your thread then tie on another needle thread 12thats good kate:) we can see you now 06k Anita, how do you deal with that when you only have 1 ball of thread? 12we will teach you how to hide your ends craff Do you wind some off the ball to hold as needle thread to be added later before starting the tattign? Or do you cut the whole thing off, tie on, and start again? 06no...never knew about that 12i tend to cut off a few lengths of thread if i am doing a large project 06should i not be working with thread attached to ball? 12that way i have a few extra just in case You thread the needles in advance? 06that's what i did, but only one time and didn't like it Or wind the threads onto a thread holder like an embroidery floss holder? 06i thot there must be a better way Yes, Charlene, you do work with a thread attached to the ball. That's the difficulty Because once you use up the needle thread, what do you do? Your tatting is attached to the ball. Where to get the new thread? 12i would use the main thread (one forming the knots) as your ball and the extra threads are spair "core" threads Another ball? From inside the ball? Or from some thread taken off the ball in advance? Those are your options. 06yes...that's what we need to know 00,04I would like to know the difference in a picot and false picot and a ring and a mock closed ring 12a picot is in the actual design.... eg 4-4-4 12a false or mock picot is a space of thread left at the end of a ring 12before starting the next 12used to climb out of a row The space of thread is left on both the working thread and the core thread 12we will go more into detail about that in a few weeks as well Then knot them together. It looks like a picot when done It's in another lesson, you're advanced :) Also, the ring vs. mock ring is next week too. 00,04Okay, thank you 12lol i think most of our students are mimi But if everyone has their questions done for this lesson, we can look at lesson 2 MOI? Oops, you mean ready for Lesson 2? (tired) 12this is the second set of students we have had who could skip lesson 1 completely :) 06when you end a ring, make a chain, then it says, rw 12yes 12needle tatters will do a SLT 06does that mean you just pull off the stitches and do the shoestring? 12yes Right, reversing work doesn't happen until after you've completed and tensioned the previous element So you close the ring, SLT, then RW 00,04What is a shoestring? Or you pull the thread through the chain, tension it properly to make a curve, then SLT and RW 12make sure you form the chain or ring before you SLT!!!! 06my bad terminology, i think 07oops....grits knows more than i do...lol 12you cant once it is done Stops the core thread in its tracks if you do it too soon. 12SLT is used more in needle tatting than shuttle tatting kate Actually, when we use "shoe lace trick" we mean to tie the 2 threads like they were shoe strings 12it it like tying the first half of a knot the first movement only 00,04okay The shuttle tatters are the ones that call it a trick 07k, i remember that now They didn't realize they could use it to good advantage to switch colors... a Lesson 2 maneuver 00,04I can only do needle tatting Needle tatters can teach shuttle tatters a lot!! Right Anita? 12lol definatly mimi ;) 06and don't put the needle through the loop of a chain - right? 12ugh remind me not to laugh...... it starts a caughing fit.... ouch :( That's correct Charlene. Otherwise it becomes a ring So pull the core thread completely through to finish the chain and pull the ds together so that they curve slightly just like you see in photos of tatting otherwise the chain will look floppy Make sense? 12all chains should have a curve to them! And the core thread should be all the way inside... otherwise... dreaded gapsosis occurs! 06yes 12<----- guilty lol All it takes is a little care to avoid the dreaded gapsosis when starting the next element check to make sure all is secure and not floppy. Then you'll be fine. 12that tends to be how i know i am getting tired.... gaps start forming Did everyone understand in the lesson the discussion about the structure of the stitch? The ds having 2 legs and a waistband, I mean It's important to know so that you can recognize the 2 sides of the tatting 00,04Yes and avoid twisting when connecting one element with another (ie. joining) Did anyone have a look at the Awareness Ribbon pattern? It's a very good pattern for being as simple as it is. 06that's what i'm doing now - have the first ring then gapped the chain so am taking out stitches Needle tatting is pretty easy to take out, isn't it. WE call that "retrotatting" 06that's my strong suit right now :-) Someone once told me that you know you're a good lacemaker when you retro as fast as you go forwards! 00,04Yes I did the awareness ribbon Great, Kate! 07not me Did you notice the pattern's special way of causing the tatting to curve? 00,04Yes If all the rings/chains had been the same size, the tatting would have been 3-D when curved into the shape of the ribbon But by making the Chains shorter and the rigns bigger, the tatting curves in a flat plane It's very clever, and helpful to know if you take up designing. When you have a chance Craff, it's a good pattern to try. 07ok..thnx Any other questions about lesson 1? 00,04No No problesm with the dove or butterfly? 00,04None 06i'm ready 07no How are you finding reading patterns. No major questions (other than why the heck can't writers all do it the same way???!) 00,04Yes that's the question 12lol the question with SOOOOOOOO many answeres lol No joke, and so many ways to write patterns. Reading patterns is sometimes tougher than the tatting itself. You have to be on your toes checking for a list of abbreviations And think critically about what you're reading and seeing in the photo. 12and it always helps to have a good photo or diagram to check with as well I rarely tackle patterns without a photo. I want to know what I'm going to make before I start. Concrete sequential I guess :) Anyway, if Anita has no objections and everyone wants to stay a little longer, we can look at lesson 2 12same here.... need a photo ro a diagram 12and i cant type lol 00,01That sounds good 12sounds good mimi Typos are allowed totally. Teasing about typos only sometimes allowed :) For time's sake, I'll tackle picot gauges first 07i'm in the right roomthen 07see....lolol This is about halfway downt he page of lesson 2 http://www.angelfire.com/planet/newtatters/lesson2.html The photos pretty much say it all There are times when one wants a picot of a certain size or, wants all the picots to be the same size A gauge is the best way to accomplish that Gauges can be like what Georgia used in teh photos -probably wood or plastic I have a friend that cuts up the fake credit cards that come in the mail to use very thrifty By holding the gauge in place when you make a picot you can keep the thread length the same each time. It's a little strange at first to hold both the needle and gauge in the right hand at the same time But particularly when the gauge is horizontal (photo on the left) 07in time, doesn't that come naturally...or do even veterans use that you can develop a rythym I go back and forth Sometimes I eyeball it and sometimes I use a gauge For me, it depends upon how many picots there are 12some patterns it will matter more than others how decorative they are 12also if you are showing the piece it may matter more or if they're just being used for joining rather than being pretty When I make something for the Fair, I normally use a gauge. Or many gauges, if there are picots of many sizes 06right now it's hard for me to make distinction in small, reg, large, etc Such as in the Dove. For beginners picot size is difficult to control IT comes with practice 12that is when guages are handy 12you can make your own with a piece of box board 12or use knitting needles Anything rigid that won't discolor your hand or thread One thing important to remember with gauges. When the gauge is held horizontal (parallel to the needle) The picot will be the same size as the gauge width BUT If you hold the gauge vertically (perpendicular - photo on the right) The picot will be 1/2 the height of the width of the gauge So be careful when creating your gauge - think first about how you will be holding it It can make your gauge versatile, too a 1/4" gauge can make 2 sizes of picots 1/4 " when horizontal, or 1/8" when vertical! Make sense? 00,01That's really good to know 06yes Well, It's nearly 7 oclock, so I won't go more into lesson 2 for now. any more questions? 00,01Not for me Go for it Charlene 07no thnx....you did good..lol 06i'm good for now 07now i'll have to find time to practice 06thank you so much, and i loook forward to next week! 00,01Thank you 12if you can.... everyone please look at lesson 2 and possibly lesson 3 for next week Great, have a look at Lesson 2. That's where we get into "True Rings" and also use of 2 colors 12we may go through alot if you all have no real problems with it And because you're so advanced, let me look quick at Lesson 3 for what we may have time for How about in order... joins first, and possibly think about how to get a ring to hang off the top of a chain instead of on the end of it. Mostly, though, I encourage you to try they Lesson 2 patterns 00,01okay They'll eat your needle thread but good, but that's all part of the learning rpocess! 06ok ;-) At the end of each lesson, I take the text of this chat (called a "log") and put it on the lesson page That way, you can read back over the chat if you need to Sometimes you forget the answers to questions, or just plain need a refresher Having hte log also helps you students keep your fingers on your needle and threads or on the keyborad rather than taking notes 12and if there is a queston through the week please email us You can do the notes later from the log if you like 07oh..that's great mimi Absolutely Anita, email anytime. But better write Anita. She may not be feeling well, but at least she'll be home. I'm leaving tomorrow for Spokane, can hardly wait 10th Annual Shuttlebirds Tatting Workshop!! 12or if you have MSN i am on messenger under anital76@hotmail.com I'll be back Sunday night. 12have fun mimi 12:) * Kate has left #tatchat I'll get to tell Georgia Seitz in person how well allthe students did tonight Another advanced crop 06have a great time... Thanks all. 06good evening! Y'all have a good night, and happy tatting! 07enjoy your trop mimi, and thank you both. 12night all!!!! 07nite * Anita has quit IRC (Quit: Tatters 4 forever!) * grits-sc has quit IRC (Quit: Tatters 4 forever!) * Disconnected Session Close: Wed Apr 19 18:59:36 2006