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THE FANTAIL GENEPOOLE (THE WOODEN fantail PROFILE is dated 2000? or 19 hundreds !!!

THE DIXIE GENEPOOLE . {founded by JIM ERVIN...JIM - E} Historically, JIM has given us GENEPOOLE COLOURS; and has full filled our dream of TYPE PERFECTION, both IDEALISTICALLY, as well as their ability to WALK; today, we enjoy an understanding of the CHIRA STATE. CHIRA COMES of ATTITUDE, and attitude is a product of Genepool, as well a state of health and well being.

My Favorite Web sites

Angelfire Home Pages
Some of the 1990 lost URLS that show the History and developement of the Mellennium Fantail Odell #7 defines THE New TYPE
FANTALEbook 2007
THE CENTRAL FANTAIL CLUB 2008, web master Dani Falconi


We want the Symmetry of ROUNDNESS WITH the CARRIAGE and the MOTION

TO create these QUALITIES, these General REQUIREMENTS ; we found that :the POINT BLEND MATINGS Proposed by Modern Techno programing came from the AUSSIE Standard of Perfection, those being: CARRIAGE 25 points MOTION 08 points

We have also found that the proposed Leg setting,of A Personal MINDS EYE; comes of the KEEL shape( square), and about equal to the length of the DRUM STICK(65-70mms?, myalar measurement, after dial vernier caliper of the meat and the feather; graphically with Design Software for a double check, and giving a real range) the resulting LEG SETTING(S!)also enhances the VISION of ROUNDNESS from any angle of VIEW!

These idealisms for Leg setting, to create MOTION, and POSING, and in MOTION , are set to the DAT 20 TRI VIEW PROFILE/OUTLINE, as well its Bodee to top tail proportionments. ( all pix posted on Breeding the Modern Mellennium Fantail, called A TYPE THREE , before the enception of the TRI VIEW, BY BILL O'DELL Master BREEDER, MASTER SHOWMAN, and GENEPOOLER.

There remains a method where we can Visualize from the TRI VIEW how important it is to note the bulging Knee of the Leg; which best proposes taking the Ability to WALK, to the actual action of WALKING and POSING, POSING, POSING...We want to knowthey can walk, but we want to JUDGE them , and enjoy them in their POSING ..Posing. Walking tells us they have the better ROUNDNESS, and the CORRECTNESS of LEG SETTINGS

The TRI VIEW does NOT SHOW MOTION, but it does show SYMMETRY..A ROUNDNESS from all VIEWS, and THE TRI VIEW has THE USUAL VIEWS.; but none show an untrained EYE what gives the ROUNDNESS, and the Ability to Motion.

We noted from recent POSTS that Somebody wants MOTION, and another wants THE ROUNDNESS..and neither wants to give up ONE for the Other!: WE DON"T HAVE TO!

We can have both, the ROUNDNESS, and the ability to WALK; because the proper leg-setting, for the TRI VIEW {{A TYPE THREE, and called "NEW TYPE', before the inception of the TRI VIEW will yield more ROUNDNESS, while it sustains the correct Head Pocket( at the base of the tail, on the cushion); and Sustaining the Ability to Walk and POSE, POSE, POSE;!

Note that the TYPE ONE is the Canadian TYPES, and the TYPE TWO is the Mid West UP TYPE, both of OLD...}}

Where an ABILITY to WALK, can be Pre-cipita-ted by the MOTION POINTS(in the AUZZIE STD) where we also have the CARRIAGE , from the UNder-Carriage, Keel width, Drum stick length, amount of TIP toe, when coupled WITH the High POINTERS, that also have the General requirements ; and knowing that these are properly INter-faced by the Ability to Motion; to pose, to pose, to pose to Walking during their relaxing/SETTLING in the Show pen ("SETTLING")

At this point, it becomes an under-standing of WHAT drives the bird into walking, from a pose, Where the Carriage is maintained;while the MOTION is INITIATED, ...BY WHAT? ENERGY...that comes of the Hard body( athletic ability, from proper CONDITIONING and pen training))

Where the resulting "Settling will take on a SHAPE and THE Profile that looks like the TRI VIEW; but where the TRI VIEW does not show the Ability to WALK; nor does it show us the Engergy to do so!

From the Ability to Motion to the Actual Motion comes of the muscle and co -ordination found in individuals which are Rested, molted, and Conditioned..still if the PROFILE is NOT THAT OF THE O"DELL TRIVIEW, then we are back to the Other phenoTYPES..The UP TYPES, of which there are the short keeled, and the Long rectangular keel types; Each TYPE with their defined Keel shape, and Correct or Incorrect leg setting; when the TYPE TWO's are DEEP and BIGGER, taller too; still, they are less likely to have their Longer legs stretched out straight that the TYPE ONES. But the TYPE TWOS, will have the both the ability to Walk, and its in motion, but still, they do not drop between , if they had the squarer, and so, Wider Keel; Their Size, being taller, because of longer legs,(still straighter, without a drop down because of their Rectangular Keel,(body Height) and taller because of the longer STRAIGHT LEGS, so that when they relax, they are "APPLE on a STICKS?")

{1}How do we get them to drop down, between their Hips? How do initiate the Ability to Motion, to actual MOTION? How do we get longer legs of the UP TYPES , which we need to have the ability to WALK, ? How do we Push this ability into Motion, and maintain their Carriage? {1} Wider, squarer Keel {2} With the control of Muscle tone, (hard body) from the meat, to the MOTION...thru a natural tendency to SETTLE,/RELAX and drop down {3} Long drum stick of the TYPE Two's, will when straight, add to the look of tallness, but, if the Angles are changed around the Knee joint to the hip socket( where the Knee height is adjusted in the drop down; where the "TOE TOUCH POINT results from a pre determined Sheletal structure, with meat and its muscle to{4} initiate the Motion.

We already noted that THE "AMERICANS" want MOTION; but, confusing to everyone in our GROUP , is that THE AUZZIE wants his ROUNDNESS, and THE AUZZIE STANDARD is even More precise than the AMERICAN STANDARD on MOTION..and Carriage point designations.

The Canadian STANDARD, it seems is UNWRITTEN, and follows the CFC?
THE TRI VIEW sets its shape, it is the PROFILE; but, we must take the TRI VIEW, and create from it..THE MOTION , showing its Motion, the positioning of the Legs, not just at their hip sockets, but as it moves, as it poses, and as it WALKS.

THE GRAND CHAMPIONS over the WORLD are THE BEST of THE DAY, and of their DAY..Nothing said will place this Under..and if it does, it is in the MIND of ITS Breeder !

We noted that THE GRAND CHAMPION of the CFC SHOW ..THAT" ITS BREEDER is aware of ITS TAINTS......and will easily go Forward in his parenting...

What might be a CONCERN is the OLD THINKING, predominating the Method of Selecting mates for this Champion?; none the less, it is only that to maintain this Champion means Using the THINKING of the past.. OF THE FIGURE EIGHT", from the Start of this Maintance, of "Good"..ness ; that WE look to "THE SLIGHTEST TENDENCIES to FAULT, Tainted; and further.. that we go beyond the "Mentality" of the past Figure Eighting for mainance( which we Must do) but, we Must also go a ' mentality' beyond, where WE look at the Taints, and Faults seen in any Chamion, and what we mate to IT!

TO move it forward, towards the TRI VIEW, AND Towards the MOTION, and Carriage,(33pts) which creates the best symetry' of ROUNDNESS, and the "abilty" to walk; IF it can attain the PHYSICAL BALANCE; which should be specific to the Profile of the TRI VIEW, and not any other PROFILE, , which takes the "ABILITY TO MOTION to that of the ACTUAL DEFINED CARRIAGE and reslting MOTION, with the PROFILE of the TRI VIEW...

What gives the PHYSICAL BALANCE required to precipitate the Motion? THE structure of the Skeleton; The MEAT, not just the feather; and their natural tendency to relax and settle in their Show pens..must be with the P R O F I L E of the TRI VIEW, NOT THE TINY UP TYPES, or the taller mid west UP TYPES( no body depth,)

Where we come to under-stand, that THE OLD UP TYPES, must be modified/refined: 1. Keel shape,is squarer= wider Hips wide leg setting, allows for drop down 2. The length of the Legs, including the amt of tip toeing, and the Net length due to the direction, at each joint, from the Hip socket( thigh) to the drum stick, and tip toes..

After we get this Configuration of Skeletal Structure, and the Body "suspended between, the proper Lengths of legs,; that this resulting height will not be looking like the UP TYPES that can walk, that have not dropped between, to the degree that the up types haven't( if they have rectangular keels, this adds to Tallness, verses squarer keel) WHY DO WE START with the UP TYPES.....selecting the bigger deeper bodied styles? Why do we look for squarer keel shape?

WHY DO THEY DROP, when the Keel is more square? When their Drum stick is proportionate to their Keel length! Why do they look ROUNDER? WHY can they actually Walk, and POSE.....pose, pose.... ? AND WHY do they not drop at first cross of TYPES? And why do we KNOW which types, and styles to SELECT to go towards the TRI VIEW, and its projected Motion, and carraige from its charcoal lines of Knee protrusion ?

How do we POINT BLEND, and WHAT do we point blend.. ?
WE cannot expect to improve them, if we have ALL the same Phenotype, from a single Family.and .did we forget, all those Outside , unrelated, well bred , bought, borrowed from another LOFT..and another minds eye.. gave the most refinements..and, WE ask.. how certain we were, of what to de select.. and what to keep...when we did the figure eight to maintain, but forget to point blend the Taints, or add in that which will give the TRI VIEW... so that JUDGING is not so difficult.. but..mostly, That is opens a can of WORMS ,as to the Integretiy of the JUDGe, and of the BREEDER...

Let us pray.. that We can take this More complete FORMULA for breeding SHOW FANTAILS, like the TRI VIEW. so that we can stop this errosion of this Fancy.. because we don't recognize the GREATNESS OF THE FALCONI FANTAILS....OR, those of JOHN MCCLANAHANS'

And that we are ALL aware of what can be done to prepare a bird for show, and that when we JUDGE..we can JUDGE the outcome of that judgement on taped, verses plucked small feathers, verses the cut off flights, or complete removal.. and in the best interest of the Breeding stocks sold, that such defects be culled, as we go forward; but not until we have a fairness of what we sell, where one fanciers culls, are anothers oportunity to creat a winning family.. IF we Undertand a single extension of the " SIXER" MENTAILY ..

WE MUST ADD IN THOSE INDIVIDUALS that SHOW US all that is missing in the general REQUIREMENTS, and once we have these, can we address their LEGS and under-carriage; to where we can PERCEIVE, that this CULL, plus this CULL .. will place us one up on the best SIXER OUT THERE; and when we do that, , and we understand this single method of modifying the Figure 8 ; . SIXER MENTALITY....
We can take OUR PRESENT BREEDING STOCK, add in the CULLS, well bred, and consistant for what OURS are lacking.. and the problem today is that we don't keep those that have the qualities that we are Missing.
The chances of starting with a few top , well bred fantails, will not give us a complete genepool for us to approach the TRI VIEW....The closest we can get.. is in the use of several fantails from several sources known to be well bred, and to "a single Minds eye"
THE SAME LOFT, has the same taints, and faults, what is worse, is that in the complexiety of breeding the fantail.. we have set aside the color/marking.. and we have also set aside the phenotypes that not only give the profile of the tri view, but we have set aside the motion, without realizing that the FOUNDATION to ROUNDNESS and MOTION, is the carraige and the resulting Motion.
LEGS are the FOUNDATION, that we Must have to create the TRI VIEW....

WHAT IS phenoTYPE? It is A "PROFILE"; and that PROFILE is ONLY SUGGESTED in the AMERICAN STANDARD,in a still PICTURE; because there was such a POOR SHOWING of Representatives from the Fantail Community, and its Closed SOCIETIES? BUT, it is the largest STEP FORWARD ever displayed in the History of the Fantail.; due to a devoted CLICKERY of OUR BREEDERS.; who did not want to see The HISTORY, from FIRETALKS, thru out to this MELLENNIUM.

The problem is that We DID NOT THINK That THE NON ENITIES should have such a strong influence; even though , it got us to the TRI VIEW,and evidently backed by the GOD FATHERs , that remain; still, their perception, stopped with their Book BY HOUSE, and didn't include the Work of JEFF BATTON.Both Historically, as the breeding creation. Nor do we recognize THE GENEPOOLs created for Colour propagation? IE THE LEON STEPHANS ERA, and THE ERA of the DIXIE GENEPOOL.

How does this affect the Fantail Fancy in the past...? IN the present, and in the FUTURE? IN THE PAST it has ,destroyed The Fancy?

This did not happen because of the different "STYLES" seen @ any particular Regionion SHOW; it resulted , because of differences in INterpretation, and the resulting YOUNG from OUR Breeding stocks, as well the incompleteness in our Thinking("MENTALITIES?") on the personal MINDS EYE!

BUT, the main problem, as we see it, from reading back thru this Lists inception.Is: That Tho we must set aside colour and markings, in our initial endeavor to create a First High quality SHOW FAMILY. ; so why NOT Start a Color or Marking Family at the same time?


This fs is not only with tail feather length, it has great color penatrance. A very, very Valuble breeding BIRD.

We are turning this over to Harold : and a Fantale SKIT! Har: What do you see here? Bob, I SEE Negative TOP TAIL MCK: CORRECT, shall we move ahead to what Phenotype we can mate this one to refine its already unmistakenly TYPE THREE , TYPE PERFECTION(for JIM IN PHOENix THE O 'DELL DAT 20) HAR: What do we mate it too? A TIGHT BACKED ......HEN? Several mates? CONGRATULATIONS to ALEC ERVIN for his STENCIL CLASS WINNER.

May 2007

With the PROFILE SET, within the FORE and the AFT /caudally , which gives the "U N D E R - BELLY.." The KEY to ROUNDNESS from any Angle of VIEW; and we come to the Finally of ET TAL... THE WHOLE of TYPE PERFECTION!

Let us now embark on an understanding set forth by the FOREFATHERS, and THE FATHERS: That if we could express the specifics of THE resulting "TOE TOUCH POINT", Forward REACHING, and adding to the ILLUSION of ROUNDNESS within the meat and their Feather, while Maintaining their Ability to WALK..with IN MOTION, transposing from WALK to POSing, flawlessly , tight and with et tal properly INterfaced.

How do we Speak of the Under-carriage that will carry the PROFILE to the TYPE THREE, the DAT 20? Most assuredly this is seen only IN THE ....les! ; Without BREED Outcross;only the use of the CREEPERS, the Umbrellas, and the anomally's that came of both Champ, and Ostrander whites..

SIXER MENTALITY will rain longest with a CONTROLLED GENPOOLE of both LIKES.. as well...UNLIKE Phenotypes.

The UNDER-CARRIAGE...its SEEN with the various Pheno-TYPES un-ravels the understanding of why , even within the various Phenotypes.. THE under-carriage will make a Champion.. or BREAK ONE!

TO SEE what we asked Years ago.. is yet to be explained. "WHAT ARE GOOD LEGS?"

THOSE that DIE of TEFLON , and such is tragedy..BABY CAKES told us his storey..of NEW CARRIERS..SEE PLASTIC Manufacture..extruding agents etc.

Those here.. STRESS, and then SHOCK..with some, the burst Neck arteries ..... STRESS and POISON All POISON is not Ingested.. SEE BLACK MOLD dangers; Recall Carter, and TUTS TOMB.. Already weakened by AGe, and with respiratory pROBLEMS; cARTER, AND THE REST, INCLUDING THE fRENCHMAN 6 YRS LATER.. dIED OF SPORES FROM bLACK MOLDS?


MAY 2007

The PREFERRED TAIL COLORATION IS SELF!! and Marking as per STANDARD ..GERMAN or ENGLISH. And, what do we do with ALL those wonderfully typed FLASH GRIZZLES?; We breed them to SELFS, and we make any color TM we so desire to create as in TAIL MARKED.......... FANTAILS, because they are MARKED PROPERLY, and THEY ARE COMPETATIVE of the DAY!

Then we look to the bull eyed WHITE {zwh}..and where have they GONE?; Save Those in Ca? WHY NOT mate these Flash Grizzled TAILS to OUR bull eyed whites. March 2007 with reguards for COLOUR and it Marking, or to the PIEDS Markings..

WE look upon the WHOLE, as we have learned that for genetic STUDY, we create a Vaccum where we set aside , so that we can focus on the MUTANT to be studied.

THE REAL WORLD of FANTAILS, and so it Colorations and MARKING are looked upon , not as separate 'ENITIES ' but as the result of total Interaction of all that is INvolved, so that SELECTION maintains all that will re-create ? IE the original ice coloration, or the White Platinum , black edged lacing of the STENCIL(S) .

THE idea that LOOK a LIKES are always a possibilty; still, what if what we SEE' is what we get, if we create a GENEPOOL for a Shiny beetle GREEN BLACK SELF; and from ththis BLACK SELF FANTAIL, we see the Bettle GREEN transposed to the infamous Archangel Bronze, with the same Mimic Black KITE? base( instead of the Blue based of the blacks with purple sheen, and that the blue/ black base becomes a MIMIC BLACK base, thru the KITE to the ultimate we called MIMIC BLACK BASE) Mimic black base is what we see as the Black winged Archangel,,adding back in the grease Quills, adding the Suabian , German field Pigeons) for their Marbling( mckclature)about the head, neck, and hackle with a blue based toy stenciling. THE ARGENT is normal blue based, the icing on the Ices is the same as that marbling; it is not the blue base, or the Kite base ; a a separate group , in proper sequence( placed such, from a SIXER MENTALITY)

Archangel Bronze comes in the blue wings, the white wings are ASH, another Group and even a so called leb bronze, the invisable gene(s) in the blue base, but in rec red, or ash.. a penatrance that is likened to ribbon tail, adding fs//fs and we see that the OLD TIMERS..just selected in waht ever they saw, liked, and was heading in the direction of the colouration.IE we removed the Od from the UK FRILLS because , altho it gives a nice white with lacing in ASHES, but none in blue base; we removed it! because it did not support the black lacing we like in the toy stencils.

The dominant opal will express with PIED white...but, do we want pied splashes...better to use the OD as a bridge cross to see the ts , and separate the Familiy into the OD family retaining the ts1//ts1( modena bronze) and looking to the ts stencil, alone in the final recreation of the ultimate in lacing; tho the bars come first.. and are not , strong enough to carry the plat white to the laces in CT//CT. and it seem that kite base, and mimic black base will mask the penatrance of the Plat expression;( or some portion of it?)We see reduction in the nest feather, it molts SELF in the SHIELD...

We apply what is make the Lace tails without ts shield expression.. and it is the mimic black that seems to contain them; but I am thinking in time.. with continued Selection, we can go in a personal direction.. for what we feel is beautiful..

Never forgetting that it cannot be called a Saddle, fantail, if it doesn't have the TYPE of the DAY... or BETTER!!!

Sunday Feb 4th 2007

We had hoped to remove Obselescenceby this time; however; at this time it is not possible! TIME reorganizing etc, but more importantly Without Total Loss as it happen in the 1990's to 40 URLS under both netscape , as well Angelfire,. =======================================================


started with the DIXIE GROUP, and today is FANCY WIDE; it is JIMS wish that anyone who has contributed to the RARE Colourations be included.

Historically..and prior to the DIXIE GENEPOOLE URLS; came the California GENETICS GROUP. ALL, but forgotton, were these PGNL days, of JOE QUINN and His band of Legioneers..but more Importantly is our lack of knowledge on the History of this Ca GROUP. INFORMATION PLEASE?

The only mention has been of LEON STEPHENS...He made the first brown fantails we saw; in AL KREUTTERS LOFT. AL had made brown saddles from the LS brown selfs.

Hatcher had Grizzle, Indigo factors in upgrades; Was it this Ca. Genetics GROUP that initiated the Crosses?

Indigo was isolated by LEVI, from CARNEAU; Today, we know that INDIGO , and smokey, along with Spread can give some mighty fine yellow or red colouration.. with the homo CT pattern, Indigo CT's are bronzy, and a favorite of ELAINE E.

Their bronzing is enhanced by grease quills , as well ; {e//+}; when they come e//e.. you will see profoundness in any self Coloration.( that includes Blacks.) KITE DECember 2005.. re printed from previous POSTING.. the FAN LIST KITES do not exhibit any plum, or bluish tints. KITES are CT//CT pattern, Kites that show little Bronzing, are those that hide the penatrance of the stencils( shields. )

Black KITES, are also called "MIMIC BLACK KITES"; these are not SPREAD FACTOR. Mimic black is found in untainted Black winged Arachangels, and noting that the so called archangel bronzing about the neck and hackle are subject to other Gene pairs? Not, maybe those of the other bronzes so defined by JQ. ===================================================

RCBC continues to upgrade the rare color genes, and it is said that his Lofts are a specialty Candy Store.


PRODUCTIVETY is a KEY to SUCCESSES! Worming is number ONE! AIRFLOW is NUMBER ONE? SUNSHINE is NUMBER ONE? Spraying those walls and ceilings with disinfectant is NUMBER ONE? Maintaining a healthy Floor , with continued maintance, at first are number ONE Prioritys'? ======================================================


is a Disenfectant that can be sprayed around on the floors and walls. What is it? LIKE BLEACH...but so much slower, with its residual action! ======================================================

Sept 13th..2005 Modena bronze Kf , fantail bronze is the same as tippler, roller, pouter etc

====================================================== Kf , we once called the bronzing found under the good colored selfs of the past; fantails of sorts though! We saw grizzle from roller make Brander bronze, with one dose or two of grizzle.

We saw this so called bronze with milky wash the barring out completely, and loaded the milky, this Kf, added Qualmond, bar pattern, and ice to make a Lavender that beamed of silvers and platinums, but not barless.. just looking so!

We crossed Argents to fantails; and Bronze Modenas, T pattern, because we didn't have T pattern in any of the fantail colors; just checker?; then, Archangel bronzes were thought to be checkers; later imports led us to believe T pattern. 1. The key to Archangel is to know that the bronze is marbling effects of base color, coupled with feather structure( Gibson) and a lack of sooty?( Somerside) and the BASE for a Proper Archangel, enhanced by grease quills that run under the wings and down to the drum sticks; is a T-PATTERN squared, such that Black Kite is now called 'MIMIC BLACK( not spread factor)(RALPH (RCBC) SMITH of Mississippi}

The expected results , is mostly unexpected.. with ts1, modena bronze to pure fantails. the F3 family, the 6th outcross to t pattern modena bronze Sixer selected and inbred.. yields some strange ratios of bronze to no shows( crows..usually blacks, just not always?)

2005, saw a disreguard to color, altho the F3 mod bronze OH is very nicely vibrbriantly red; when crossed to a 14 inch, almost 9 high tail feather center; 50% came without out oil glands, wide spread, flat,tails( width??..bigger than her 17 scoopers..look to be closer to 14( the key is the point blending of this F3 Mod bronze hen to type in each generation for coloration..and altho she is an F# TYPE.. she will Breed phenotypes that approach the TYPE THREE Phenotype. THE POWER OF SIXER MENTALITY, coupled with a PLUM pudding starter POOLe?

The 1/2 with her T pattern, and her bronzing..dull, as it may be.. will be intereating to watch; along with tail size; bodee will be the result of custom point blending of the 6th OUTCROSS to Modtail up grade types. OR,

If this up grade male is not with any bronze in the shield, has noning left over from early infusions; then why do we see the same erratic production of bronze, like Kf, and the redder in the COLOR FAMILY?.

And, while we are saying that Cinnamon milky's are not bronze; then we are looking for an explanation, definetion of the mechanics of the 'z' loci..that Williard Hollander left in my hands...

Explain Directional mutation?; correlate the zwh, as an end point, starting with the blue black; conversly, covering the blue.. , yielding the 'MIMIC BLACK..calling this Brander; and calling blue black..Modena bronze..or un improved Kf.. fantail bronze.. that when milky is prescent,with this z bronze, precursor to z white it inflects its washing effects , plus those of milky...but then... milky, without bronze, which damescenes are free of it.. will have the best barring in both coarse and smooth spread ares of barring;noting that the primaries of Damescenes are not eboney black. but washed ice black....showing us that the mimic black kite base esaily produces the Mimic black flights of Brander, and black kite ; that an interuption of mimic black, of brander bronze, or kite bronze..(same, just pattern differences? coupled with base enrichments, from the cruddies...and blue black based color is not bluish black, but mimic black from the enriched base that easily produces the classical almond, the red, yellow, gold, selfs. =================================================== THE PROOF comes of the proper PUDDUN...of color.. ARCHANGEL , etc breeds; of TYPE PERFECTION..MODENA...If 4 back crosses will pull out those Calcutta onion layers.. from genotypic to phenotypic.. we look to the 5th, which was to the 6th; too see.. that we must reinforce the weakest genome.. a lack of genepoole for bodee depth; still we see a certain caudal(aft), coupled with a very specific frontal breast,that does not break upwards , as some fantails do today.. here as well. these are the weak link, they must be enhanced, these young replacing , but maintaining the VISUAL; while reducing the 'shoirt couple that seems not to give way to the front leaners, no matter waht we do with pure breds; so then to that finite' fouth family, the 6th outcross.. to finally place the short coupled genotype out; and make room for the new type.. the TYPE THREE...

It has come time to SIXER the an upgrading of COLOR, marking, to TYPE, which is already exposed to the tainted genomes from the Outcross for color; that comically, even ironically gave the type Three..

At the same time; should we the SIXERS..not defend our steps up the Pyrimid of learning; use all the pieces, set.. for a fadded minds eye; but as we shut out only partially, a flame of a minds eye; even worse, have we cut out the Life blood of the loyal SIXER...the foundation of our is not too late to use the many minds that we have placed aside for our own etching in granite... ====================================================== ====================================================== SEPTEMBER the molt places them in feathers , and more feathers; raked away QOD... WILL the TRUTH of Minds eye bring the CHIRA..TYPE THREES in the RARE COLOURATIONS seen in the past? A PRODUCTION , an ALBUM, PIX...


AUGUST 2005 looking to the completion of the molt

THE 25th Best of COLOR, and the Champion FRILL stencil tail lace (fs//fs)

# 414-2003

Dilute Modena bronze/Sulfur(TYPE TWO)
A 90's decade ma//ma or ts//ts bronze & a sulfur dilute OH, a piece of the ts complex
The Physical nature of our fantail is related on the Juditha page. here, we expound on Genepoole Projects. We wonder why we cannot get the brighter orange/red of brander? Missing pieces? e//+ and bronzy true KITE base? We ponder the laced youngster that moults darker instead of lighter into a lacing so often seen in the Oriental Frill. The wonders of the so called TRI COLORS in the Modena, become ever so inevitiable in the Fantail. Our favorites.. Indigo, brown..and the TRI of the modena bronzing. In bar..Bright rusty bars.. in the CT//CT pattern..the entire shield is an ausome combination of Bronze, brown color base and which the pattern makes the difference in total intensity. WE HOPE TO SEE JOHN ARENAS PAGE SOON with ULTIMA & INSPIRATION LEADING THE WAY.....SEPT,2005...

The Idea that each FAD, set in a single Sixer Family, stills leads us to believe that the betterment, can be sustained when we share fantails. Likewise, if we look upon John Arenas' Futura, these renderings, from meat and feather of the day; were "SPEARHEADING the Modern Fantail!; We recall the day we snapped the PIX above and top, of Jime' . Today, and likely yesterday , each one of our ELITE" took his own minds eye, and was lookiong for the Modern day Fantail; as seen in the Arena, INSPIRATION, his ULTIMA; O'dells Tri VIEWS, and looking at this NEW TYPE ,THE VISUAL of IDEAL; it shows the 'NEW TYPE; it was dated the week end of the 75th...

Can we then assume, that like we continue to combine the 'FADS" create TYPE PERFECTION;.that the New TYPE comes of the fads of each RENDERING!


, seen above,also, in the Arena Renderings; and the TRIVIEWS, and be darned if TREVOR JOSEPH didn't have one( see in on the pix for tools link EFC PA5 fantales. ) and what of Carl POGUE, that pix, in charcoal that hung alone here, in those gloreous days of the 70's, 80's and ninety's.

Then we look to color.. rich red color... and ROY POGUE..., definetly a Forefather. Was it not 'EACH ONE of these things that created A minds eye, that has given us the MODERN FANTAIL?

Like there are FOREFATHERS...there are FATHERS...IT is NOT any ONE FANCIER...we will look to our study of everything we can, could get our hands on, about Fantails! and it to the PLUM PUDDIN , knowing that if we SELECT from deeply embedded onion layers from the days of Calcutta; We find that pushing up the Genomes is best done with the Outcross, it heterosis, an open window, that every Sixer, must open by "STARTING OVER"

New matings, with the same genepoole, often will not open them up, because the genepoole is too small?

But save some of your good work, as a neucleus of powerful genome which will be held, while we add more pieces from another Stud, fadded, with the UNLIKES that will bring a point blending required.

May 27, 2004

Also note that altho some LINKS do not FUNCTION in the LOST URLS..many are viable! Enjoy!

Recently we found some of the URLS we started in the 1990's. The most proundness we think is the developement by: RCBC, RALPH SMITH, Gerald Ballenger and Jim Ervin of the Frill Stencils, and we think some of the the ts complex has also been carried along. Together, these make the Oriental Frill Stencil !

In looking over these LOST URL'S becomes clear to everyone that what the Original Membership of the GenepoolE (E for ERVIN)Gerald Ballenger and JIM ERVIN of LOOK OUT MOUNTAIN; RALPH SMITH, of old MISSISSIP, have not only transfered the stenciling found in the Oriental FRill, but TYPE PERFECTION.

We were lucky enough to use a Brown Self lace tail hen from the LOFTS of Gerald Ballenger. After we laced her once we knew, that excepting for tail size, she was all CLASS..her ATTITUDE became apparent.

As a babe' in her first year, we would lace her in the following years at MCKTASIA..The first year brough her dropping between..and remaining in a relaxed state that we dub : a CHIRA STATE( which term, we hope someone will bring down to something we can under-stand, but for the lack of a better KEY WORD?)

This year; 2004 ,she was laced with the browns. Our browns are very typy, with heterotic type genomes from Modena infusions(5) and 35 yrs of Selection.

This Genepoole hen is not just with a lace tail of decent penatrance,less than her babies; but she is A FANTAIL! If she had several more inches of tail, this would provide the VISUAL that we look for FIRST, in our fantails.

This so called VISUAL is a single Key WORD given to us, by PAUL POLLY from our own verbal description of Bodee Depth;width and height being equal( now with cobby genome from FRILL infusion, which is inherit in this hen,,in a most profound way, reducing the body height Dimension , which we feel helps the illusion of roundness within the meat & feather( RON Spencer key words) The Visual(IS THE STANDARDS KEYWORD "PROFILE") is defined as the bodee height to the top tail, and of course..the bodee depth dimension, as far from short coupling of many tiny up types, with improper shorter legs and pocket problems, which prevent the so called "sweet spot"with beak up, and head tight..."(bob Vincent) past this point? THEN LOOK TO THE REACH!!! A fantail with a proper REACH cannot be short coupled, which is an improper interpretation of a SINGLE... General Requirement. this resulting from out of context interpretation, and a 'patch' to correct, rather quickly, a misconcetion in breeding for certain big point Gen Requiremnts and forgetting colorations/ marking and.. EVEN, the ability to WALK.

THE position of the head in relationship to the circle of roundness; inside or outside; and the attachment position of the rump and tail,dictate whether an individual fantail will present itself as far as "ROUNDNESS from any angle " !

If we note that roundness in a front lean state; we would also not that, without the physical shifting of the bodee down between the legs, will preserve such roundness in an unlocked sequence of legs; It is this Chira state that preserves the roundness, rather than, the look of taller out of this chira state..

Legs, and the ability to WALK can be achieved on a variety of Pheno-TYPESBut it will be the ability of our BREEDERS, and OUR JUDGES to direct us in our endeaver for the IDEAL.

How will we handle the intermediate TYPES? At this point we must rely on our JUDGES!; but it will become apparent that we cannot substitute the so called good legs & WALKING ABILITY of the TYPES that prevent us from the ROUNDNESS DESIRED...??

THE KEY TO JUDGING for BREEDING is realively simple...While JUDGING is much more complicated. It is this complexiety; that produces so much variation in each of our interpretations?(SEE ARTICLE IN EFC FALL BULLETIN on BREEDING to the CFC STANDARD of PERFECTION.

We must separate our mind's eye from that of a JUDGE..We are looking for the good, the 'UNLIKES', the 'extremes', bits and pieces; while a JUDGE is looking for Balanced..and the most points...No matter how a JUDGE works this out in his own mind.. It is the Exhibitor, who must accept their calls!

We do not see our way clear to JUDGING FOR BREEDING , and so creating,the TYPE THREE, NEW TYPE as seen in any TRI VIEW . But, generally speaking we are looking for low rounders with athletic ability to WALK on widely set legs, with a round bodee and lines, proper pocket and VIsual.

TYPE PERFECTION cannot be achieved in meat & feather unless we have bodee depth, which is directly proportional to under belly line length. depth of bodee equates/ yields roundness; and with these Requirements in a phenotype ;Only then can we expect to judge the legs...!

A toy stencil pair, cock front, hen rear, once a pair that bred type and coloration; today, stand like silver studded Champions; and bred to upgrades from pure fantails in 2005{#6272 OC and 6255 OH, her sib bro Number 6343 breeds white bars in show type. their Ages...a decade??
JANUARY 10th 2006 below the brown laced tail is seen as a Low rounder that can WALK; below in her first year.. note the hock and her up typiness, up right? today.. a LOW ROUNDER.. and extensively Modtail bred..

As we look upon this blown laced hen, with two browns in the nest, from a black, bred modtail, from our lost and number one show modtail hen.. the first of the TYPE THREES; to a McColeman brown modtail bred ..exceptional bodee , a low rounder?

Anyway, today, looking upon her might easily yield an understanding of how they change from this pix, what of her in her first year, to TODAY...laced, tail almost 12 inches, short at top center, but flat; minimum fs pentatence, even as we look upon her low rounder or chira SHAPE in her space...

If we look to her Genome; we see toy stencils, bred with Modtails, because Gibson told us that modena bronze was part of the ts complexiety

Today she is a Low rounder that can walk.. further Proof, that ODELL was a Cross Breeder..., but today " He said this 5 yrs ago: "I AM < BUT A REFINER OF POINTS"...Moral of this storey.. Ya can't make a statemnet like this unless you have tasted the breed cross....

{{{THIS brown hen was bred by Gerald Ballenger of FT Payne , The year 2001 of the DIXIE 25th Anniversary SHOW; Today, we see a low rounder, that does not show the legginess in her baby feather ; today, in her relaxed state, she is a "LOW ROUNDER"; and , again, the point being that such hybrids, can ,and do, change their Phenotype in their maturity. Or This TYPE TWO, as a youngster, today is a Low Rounder.'A TYPE THREE showing that the cobbiness, from the FRILL, pulled same from out of those Batton Onion layers of History and yrs long gone

.If, she had another inch of TALE; she would be as Profound as the Inspiration that was created from the meat & the featherby JOHN ARENA.

NO DATE on THIS CAKE? THE O'DELL TRI VIEWS,(7-12 most noteworthy) may vary to each of us; but it will be our understanding that the meat & the feather, FOR the specific phenotype, that comes of lesser Short Coupling,longer legs; than can be displayed in the 'relaxed state( that CHIRA is defined as "the same structure,specific in its genotype{roundness with proper profile of bodee height to top tail}.... of Carriage and Motion; with a Roundness, which is the result of less 'short coupling';The abrupt breaking up wards of the frontal line, with little underbelly line; that this Phenotype, be it leggy, taller looking in babe' feather;enhancements/refinements to type two's, but retension of the type ONE Profile(visual of bodee to top tail, added fore, and aft or caudallly, not just frontal, as in front leaner; but an over-all longer fore/ aft dimension; but like leg length, enhanced only to that which will preserve the best roundness from any view....... can and will relax to another(physical shape in space, but without change to genotype..specifically point blended , that when a weaner, matures; it can relax settle , (drug induced paved the way, but we prefer, natural conditioning, athletic ability resulting from training/ experience in the show pens; a state of well being, produced by good Nutrition and management practices {not thru medications). state in which its Primary Phenotype will change to a LOWer looking, rounder looking fantail that looks like the O'DELL or Inspiration from John ARENA. THE TYPE THREE < NEW TYPES, are THE 'MODERN DAY MELLENNIUM FANTAIL'

THE three quarter view shows that roundness comes from a bodee with more depth than seen with short coupled individuals. Short Coupling can further be defined by looking to the position of the head; either it is outside and aft of the bodee circle of roundness like number 7-12 ; or it is inside, as in shortcoupling. Such fantails have their pockets on the tail. THIS ALSO REDUCES TOP TAIL, which is a vital part of the body to top tail conformation, that we call 'VISUAL' ! and the Revised Standard of perfection calls "PROFILE"

We are retaining the old Keywords, adding some new ones..THE EFC STANDARD, will as in 1975 be the most comprehesive document ever written; giving a text that is not a Judging check list, proper, however in its place in the Show room; but not to replace a comprehensive Standard of Perfection.

WE will: Utilize THE MODEL ; THE most recent Renderings, from meat & feather specimens , by JOHN ARENA, the ULTIMA, and the INSPIRATION. These TOOLS cannot be placed aside, as we seemingly have done with ideals of SOME of our Fanciers; due to their Minds eye interpretation, and if not; then in the spirit of Sixer Mentality , which is Foundation of a strong & Healthy Fantail Fancy;That, those that seek, a Master Breeder, must always place the Goodness of real illusion, not undermining with illusions that will degradate the thoughts and minds of the Forefathers!

AT THE SAME TIME..THE CLUB, has the Responsibility to provide a proper, and fundementally appropiate, AGENDA, that is condusive to a fairness, to all Members.In their quest for a Master Breeders awards.

The Membership , also has an individual responsibility to ALL other Members, especially the NEWBIE. ( THE JACOBIN CLUB.. has a unique method of creating larger shows and attendence..We should be breeding Jacobines in new colors today...

IT IS UP TO Chairman, as the Mother CLUB to continue that which, has given us the MODERN FANTALE of this Mellennium........

THE hands on under-carriage structure that LC used at this years (2005) CFC WINTER MEET in Michigan.

The editor interprets the short coupling , easily seen with an attachment of the tail inside the circle of roundness( bodee, ceramic feather, and wing refinements; proper pocket in a caudally or rear dimension that is missing in the typical short couple seen in certain TYPE ones)

Relating the Proper Profile by understanding the relaxed state ; that when such a state is the result of the proper under-carriage, will presnt a Profile , the Phenotype of which, is different from the same fantail; before the moult, and maturity, inclusive of a Conditioning, some pen training, plus a feeling of well being; resulting from having the Health of an Athlete'.

If we look at ERVIN's Yellow sadlle rendering: it clearly shows little the legs look longer because of fluff removal.; here again we must realize how little difference there is before conditioning, and health as far as basic 'build is concerned.

Or can we say that the thigh bone is at 60mm plus, and Jim's rendering is less? If the THIGH is longer, and if the individual is relaxed, healthy, moulted and athletic..could not this THIGH BONE become more parallel to the floor line?; could it also run upwards a few degrees from the hip socket?

What is the difference in the various PHENO-types? Conditioning and Althletic ability's? We often wonder if the differences are nothing but short coupling on the one type; and the other,,ditto, lacks in bodee depth, but taller; both the NORTH and the SOUTH have the same common.. inadequate bodee depth! In the South if they have the bodee depth ,..they lose because they are BIG..GER? IN the NORTH, if they have the bodee depth, they lose because they cannot WALK.. and purportedly have 'BAD LEGS'....SO, can we maybe get them a bit more BALANCED ....

We hopefully can utilize , wisely, thru point blending the likes, the unlikes, and the extremes; using usefuls,extremes and proper Selection of all that is good, rather than wholesale culling to reduce the numbers.....

At this point I would not use heavy and thick wings. WINGS are critical in the illusion of roundness. This is mostly passe' in most studs!

The key in todays breeding program is understanding short couple and what to use to increase bodee depth. IF we cull indiscriminately , all the bigger, deep ones: We must be able to see number 7, but we must also be able to see the good of it all in usefuls'! Taller ones, that can walk, without bodee depth fore/ aft; can be used to create number 7; in fact anything can be used! But we cannot INBREED indicriminately at any time, especially in the early stages of creating a neucleus of show fantails. ( you set the bad and the good; are unable to sort these out.. and so to heterosis and the use of heterotic Family combinations, that among them have et tal; but beware of inbreeding the toppers , without something heterotic, semi related, rather than complete outcrossing; we always crossed for TYPE BLEND, no matter the coloration or to ,though ; we must not totally disreguard color or marking by having either a Family for that color/ marking to maintain; for no matter how good they become, inbred or no; we must re point blend to keep the toppers coming...My problem has not been in creating from scratch,but it has been my inability to breed the BEST to the best , forget the rest, and get more of the BEST!...

The only place I would breed the Best to the best, would be from different Family's..and now.. we can see the F3 outbreeding the inbred PURE LINES that deteriorate each year.

AN F3 has no pocket, 18 tail feathers like a HINDI, good lines, bad legs, etc.. but when bred to a family member or otherwise semi fantail will give everything but tail size...

An F3 from mod quad and modena cross cock...for orange coloration...proves that best to best is one of the point blending...

Bred by bshek of IOWAY LOFTS, USA.


bshek has shown interest in the bronzing coloration. Wirey Willy has produced show types with the whiteside genetics. This was so long ago that we dare not date this feat. But, it was before our Genepoole.

JANUARY 2007 The FANTAIL FANCY THE KEY to its HEALTHY & UN-DYING FUTURE....It was O'DELL and Spockman that made the most HISTORICAL OBSERVATION that tied our THINKING ALTOGETHER..IE that white cock that was changing from TYPE TWO to TYPE THREE at a local MEET...!

With maturity, and with proper Conditioning and PEN training( those naturals, or, called Class ACTS..those long ahead of their time, etc noted by the "OLD GUYS" need nothing, but their Genome they come from the nest looking like a TYPE THREE, New TYPE( TRI VIEWS)here we have come to SEE not just the Phenotype, from Genotype point blend, prepotency Selection; but that When the POINT Blending of the UNLIKES to create the most Likable phenotypes/ to minds eye, and the New CFC STD of Perfection, with no notes in the Margins, save those for Personal under-standing; We clearly can INTERPRET the complex construction.. thru the final Phenotype, but see the underlying Attibutes that control the PHYSICAL BALANCE; and that PHYSICAL BALANCE yielding Youngsters, from those Parents and grands, who changed from a "TALLER LOOKING" to a LOWER LOOKING, ( low rounders that can WALK,pose, and maintain all said attributes of MOTION)( taller LOOKING is NOT TALL, Mid West, or KINGY TYPE TWO"S, These Taller lookers,(with or without extreme short coupling.or deeper bodied bodied due to meat, feather and skeletal structure, shape) have proper keel shape,ARE directional at the LEGS' joints; NOT coming from those old , old types seen in the OLD Paintings , we liken to Pouters' legs ; save that they are Directional.

THE SHAPE , THE RESULTING PROFILE, from this PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTION of a specific Genotype; controls the resulting PHENOTYPE( which is: the TRI VIEW Dat 20 or any of them from SEVEN series to DAT . and easily seen in the TRIVIEW CIRCLES of ROUND. ))

When we create the Taller LOOKING, with deeper body's, away from extreme SHORT COUPLE ; it will be these that soon will come from their nests as a SIXER DREAM.

Here tho, the mentality, must be Modified to include an understanding of this Physical process, as well maintance of the Proper POINT BLENDING of the GENOME.

We must always look to these LIKE BESTs, for the Taints, that will be common, among such a family, and look to counter, blend from something that is UNLIKE, ? but can maintain ;even enforce, enhance the tainted GR, or its pieces.

We must look to GENOTYPE(chemical) and TO the PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES of SHAPE in its environment, due to proper Conditioning, as well Showman preparation; and the attribute for the resulting Phyical Shape.

IE When they RELAX, and Settle Down in the SHOW PEN, dependent upon their Point blending; they can take on THE SHAPE of the TRI VIEWS!

THIS SHAPE comes of their Genome ,and ,of Physical Balance ; simply settling down! We define the proper ProFILE here, we also are specific in what we use for all THE GR's,, and paying close attention to a single family, which; will always show the same Taints, and weakneses.. so that we must maintain more than a single Sixer Family, but several, the size can be 2 pairs; maintained from USEFULS; but independently, and always safer than a complete outcross, wheter to another Cherry Picked bird from farmed out; or from the Breed Cross, which is the longest row to HOE.

The SHAPE, that comes of the PROPER PROFILE( not defined in the INTERPRETATION?)comes with a NEW KEY WORD: THE CHIRA SHAPE.

CHIRA is the SHAPE of the TRI VIEW, but often comes , only after maturity, and proper Conditioning. An Old bird may never show it, especially if we JUDGE them after a Breeding SEASON, prior to the REST PERIOD.( GERMAN KEYWORD)

CHIRA, here, is the SHAPE that the taller, looking take on with maturity,with conditioningand pen training, happy, heathy, and in a state of "well BEING; without Med inducements( THO STRESS TREATMENTS SHOW US THE WAY TO A NATURAL WELL BEING A Nurse FROM Forte PAYNE.

CHIRA is a specific shape that comes of a proper point blending , and maintance of ALL Pieces, from as few Individuals as possible , at best; it is the loss thru improper Culling, not seeing the USEFUL individual, be it for its COLOR, its Marking; or ITS TYPE pieces; and in the USEFULS ability to Maintain those tainted phenotypes; tho they are OUR BEST!

CHIRA is the KEY to SHOW TYPES which are Taller LOOKING, or otherwise!!; to SETTLE to the TYPE THREE SHAPE of the TRIVIEW..ANY TRI VIEW..until we get this basic PROFILE; we wil not be able to refine the meat and feather until we SEE the PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES of MOTION., which is the SHAPE of things to come.

The communication of the Chairman of the INTERNATIONAL Fantail CLUB/BOARD has been phenominal; Everyone has been included, even Nationally! Yes, there has been several other events, such as the ERVIN RENDERING;and the CANUCK VISUAL'..IT has been a lot of Fancier and CLUB dedication...Even, to those that support our SHOWS...TRULY WE ARE NOT A DYING FANCY!! bob Mckee


THE DAMESCENE ICE (2005 ice {coming soon..molting} youngster

The ice blue damescene coloration with milky as my//my is likely what the Robinson/ Roeder UK imports displayed?

Those milky cinnamons plus the ice, and Qualmond give icey lavenders that cannot be compared to the typical lavenders of Milky and ash red.

This is purely descriptive and altho the Genepoole has been affiliated, and contributed to the GENETICS NEWS LETTER and the LISTS their of; We must also realize that this affilation was / is the results of Geneticst ...and the Scientific Community's involved. IE IOWA STATE UNIVERSITY..DOC HOLLANDER, retired and a yg ninety; his SON Paul; Wilmer Miller. OUR own PIGEON GIBSON,,Paul GIBSON. LARRY LONG, the founder of the gene E//E.

OCTOBER 2005..............
Following THE GOLD FUTURA series, and OUR misunderstanding of the significance ,of same, Series of Renderings from John Arena; the time lapse, was similar to our misinterpretation of the 'FAD' of each Minds eye; of using Meds to protect our fans from Shipping Stresses, and on to looking for a way to Push the 'RELAXED STATE of well being;

THE CHIRA STATE, A physical change in phenotype,due to a change in Balance point, caused by a relaxation into a different, shape, that enhances the ILLUSION of roundness; while maining the ABILITY to WALK...!

In these days, we had yet to come to understand the ability to WALK, with a Phenotype, that always seemed to be Taller, and bigger looking. In Pogues minds eye, his USE of tininess, with very large tails, his frequent mention of 'rump setting' brought forth the VISUAL of a PROFILE, defined of the Bodee height, to the TOP TAIL; the rump setting, as well, its shape and size to support the TAIL. ( unpside down V shape) But as seen in FRANTAILS white Champion( in a fan special) It had a low set rump, but, it had PROUNDNESS( extreme'!)in that it showed a very proficient REACH The idea, was to SELECT these ' UNLIKES, point blending in its highest state?; strong in each ; QUAD POWERD GENOMES from Family FADed , and separte enities; so that we have the power of Quad breeding, and not just that of a single bird; but that it had been, maybe a PREPOTENT individual for a single Requirement, made Prepotent , by Family mating( Sixer mentality) and then combined with another such recombant Family. Building first the pieces to a requirement; then to a family very strongly set; and then Families , each extracted from a Plum puddin( 100% , in totality, of every piece for TYPE PERFECTION, as well COLOR and or marking.

That when we said the FUTURA could never take a step from the nest; became in fact, the solution to those that could not, or better, those that Hocked, and colapsed against a way for balance...Each instance of thought lead to new perception of Countering said genome. Structual integrety, firstly, and then with a specific structure out of the nest;that matured, not only in colour changes, enhancements of babe' plume'; but that the taller, longer legged, bigger looking; especially when they where deeper in bodee, cvould also mature with a Bodee dropping between that, specific wide leg, and , not only LOOK rounder, from any View, the front being the hardest?; but because of the longer leg, of which is vague to the reader, where it states Moderatly short; when the leg length must be , as long as it must be to the proper foundation of the Individual. Moderately short, defining the proper Illusion of the legs in SHOW STATE relaxed mode,the result of Meds, or of Conditioning and pen training; and CHIRA is the Change from stilty? looking, taller, bigger looking etc, to a low rounder, that illusive ,as it may be, at first; will come of a specficely POINT blanding, of UNLIKE BESTS who have their own Family of inheritance; set, by the Sixer mentality; and know, that the dainty Queen, is not as in other breeds.. her proper construction requires a regular maintance, as if we were just build her from a few individuals; which, among them, had Phenotypes, inclusive to everything we want to see in the final product, which; here, includes color and proper marking as well as TYPE PERFECTION!

So as before, each critique by a student Fancier, even in the elite', can be well taken. In this case the Standard of Perfection, the new one; is stating the look of the legs, and that LEGS are to be,that which is what they become illusively in the proper state of RELAX mode in the SHOW PENS, as a result of their point blended Genomes!( likes, and unlikes, bits and pieces, to a family, then to families, so we don't cut the Plum puddin that keeps the window of creation open, even, to specific sequences, that are inclusive of all that is needed to maintain type show TYPES; so we don't have to start over, and lose each of our own minds eye, no matter how immature.. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Descriptive observation of

Damescene ICE:

At Hatching, the babes' are white skinned, beaked, and feet. A sort of frosty white ? Save for the beak ring and toe nails ; these are eboney BLACK.

As they mature to pin stage, they darken. THE SKIN and pins are dark as seen with DIRTY. If the beak and toes stay frosty white..these will be your best Ice coloration; which is defined in the Damescene STD as completely one smooth, no dark under-feather break from the frosted icey white coloration, head to foot!

The Standard's colour defined, is the most difficult to attain; still, at Juditha LOFTS we prefer the green sheen glowing between a break from Azue blue white to the black under feather; which is residual blue-black base; the tips of the feather being reduced to azure blue ice.

The barring, both coarse and smooth Spread areas are uneffected, as with Milky as my//my; being eboney black. We have noted that with the Standards coloration defined; that the PRIMARY's- flights are NOT BLACK, but clearly showing the effects of the ultimate colouration that Bronson requires.

Gary has mentioned that, along with SMitty; that Partial Dominant is a weak description of the ice genetics. They feel we are dealing with maybe three pairs of genes...Add Paul's study of Hackle frosting and we think it is number three or FOUR...

Gary prefers to keep milky out of his Genepool ; and we have come to agree, as he has, but due to up-grading with pure blue bars, or checkers; we may have had to use the Pdr milky blues instead of re introducing the 'CRUDDIES" from the Pure Stocks of FANTAILS.

The combination of ICE BLUE, MILKY will give the ROEDER/ROBINSON? coloration of the original imports back in 1900's? ! If we add the CINNAMON barred Fantail, which is milky(my//my) and Qualmond bar pattern; we can look upon a favorite of Jim's since the beginning of time; Azure, blue white Lavender( 10 shades lighter than any other lavender) with beetle green and frosted hackle.

The one thing that we learned when Bronson offered his original Damescenes..was I want F3 homo. If I would not have had the 12 yrs in them already (clean blues to TYPE) I would have ruined their coloration and spent another decade or more clearing out those Cruddies. They said that dirty does not mask ice! It does with the crosses. That is maybe why we never saw a single intermediate. Gary did see one! But he also used Warner stocks that had some clear, clean blues.. or whomever?

SOOTY is out of my ices and bars; still i cannot comprehend it's genetics. Sooty vary's from extremely black fill, but not checker pattern; to a sprinkling which was called flecked , but not checked with powder in the old Pdr silver/ pdr blue color definetion. We removed it from the color definetion in a discussion with Kvidera.

This has been brief, but we hope it helps. We would like to see the colors of ice take hold and be shown. A Breeder in NC will use them to clean up his Bars!! This would be of great benefit to the ice that the cruddies' will already be removed and we should see INTERMEDIATES with the first crosses to barred fans.

The GENEPOOLE was established in 1967 by Jim ERVIN. IT was established to show appreciation of Colour and of Pattern! That, anyone can produce SHOW TYPE FANTAILS in any color or marking. See our EFC page for TYPE REQUIREMENTS and OUR interpretation of the Standard of perfection; not less than the accumulation of Knowledge of past, present and the proof with meat & feather in the FUTURE. JOHN ARENA , the Auzzie, has given the WORLD of FANTAILS the Wonderous Renderings, that has contibuted to our own insights of MINDS" EYE! We will not be open to Critique! Only those that SHOW are open to CRITQUE at that time, that minute or even that hour of a JUDGES DECISION.
SUNDAY December 21st 2003 ON JUDGING TODAY

This OPINION, is based on THE HOBBY TODAY with the transitions and intermediate Phenotypes. This OPINION has nothing to do with we have not been at any SHOWS. What this is is a session or bout with the Problems discussed with the Chairman'.

We are wide open here. It is a PROBLEM we face today? JUDGING the Extremes presented in the SHOW PENS..?? The situation is such that we MUST be able to TEACH in the Judging pens more than JUDGING is not SELECTION FOR BREEDING? I think we are past this POINT?

THE PROBLEM is THE CANUCK VISUAL TYPES(2003) with improved under-carriage, but still they seem to let down and the JUDGES are SELECTING the old UP TYPES. Please don't get upset here. I have attended but one SHOW.. and only briefly &I remain a NON ENITY !

This is nothing but proposing the PROBLEMS we face today in JUDGING? Again, do we pick the older TYPES THAT CAN WALK over the lower ones that let up? This is to the CHAIRMAN..AN ARTICLE IS NEEDED.??

Without the TYPE THREES in my LOFTS..I do not see my way clear to make a call on this; but our JUDGES are maybe taking some Flack ??

We have TWO CHAIRMAN'..of the GENEPOOLE ,as well, the NATIONAL BOARD!! Does the Mother CLUB have an AGENDA?

THE JUDGING RESPONSIBILITY is not an easy TASK. It could be if we considered the STANDARD as written? LOL...There can never be CONCENSOUS? ; or we have not seen it in our Lifetime! A Proper Judging is a common sensical one; based on the "COMPARISON of those ENTRIES; at that TIME, and at that Place, by that JUDGE... Critiquing by the Audience is rude and is undermining the hard work of the JUDGE , as well the FANTAIL CLUB involved. We need to however, learn from our mistakes and the use of Grand Champions, Excessive Show preparation, the use of STRESS DRUGS has been a positive thing for our own Breeding Programs; and , yes, we tape every individual at McKtasia'!( a SPRING TRADITION here at JUDITHA LOFTS.) The taping shows us many things in detail..of what could be and how to move toward the IDEAL fantail from OUTCROSSING of other breeds for color/ marking; but also TYPE, even magically, has come along when coupled with proper SELECTION & POINT BLENDING. )

THE USE of any meat & feather will be with permissions only. It is not a disgrace in any way to the BREEDER, but really a compliment. It is only those who have the improper AGENDA, which is not condusive to the enjoyment, fullfillment of breeding Skills which is prohibitive of a healthy Hobby.... We will continually strive for the positive improvements of TYPE and coloration/ marking. ___________________________________________________ THE GENEPOOLE IS based on the PHILOSOPHY's of its FOUNDER. We share our fantails of sorts, because it is the Quickest way to make a new Color/marking. _____________________________________________________ May peace inhabit your heart.. __________________________________________________ GOLD Fantails with kite base are clearly almost red; blue base Golds are as variable as lemon drops?; in fantails tho, yellow pales are as dilute recessive reds.

We don't have time for the Genetics LISTS, but we have noticed recently that the questions and discussions relate to the basic contents. We were thinking that the EFC Standard of Perfection was written, copied and colour definetion defined by the Writer shortly after the Revision.

It becomes apparent that when we speak of 'cruddy coloration!; We hear that we called Gary Bronson's fantails "CRUDDY"! Luckily, somebody understood what our genetic definetion referenced. IE that certain factors, little understood, still; make a cruddy looking barred self.

We also were delighted when somebody wanted to know what BULLS ( a type of fantail build) and bull fights have to do with fantails. All this seems to hing on an eagerness to learn! So we will address some of these topics as time permits.

This will start out with the definetion in the EFC Standard, as yet the EFC Standard being slightly different in color definetions; and really with no other corrections. We must address the improper use of the "THIGH" showing....and make correction to its improper usage.

The color definetions in the EFC Standard, which has unofficially been lost in light of the USE of the CFC STandard. Altho, We would be interested in the date of the Minutes of the Meeting, where same was the CFC Standard...

If we define the bar classes clearly; it might reduce the queries on what is 'clear, clean, body coloration, free from flecking, but not checking with various colored powder..." If we recall that sooty was the culprit in the pdr blues; then called the pdr silvers...It was a yocum IOWIAN ? Mid Western Boy that prompted the change.. it was Ostrander and Kingkinger that addressed this correction...very efficiently and almost immediately from a Letter addressed so!

The barred fantail, a pattern gene, should be a clean, clear, blue-grey, free from sootiness! We cannoy allow sooty barred to be shown in the checker classes...this was solved by culling all good and bad checkers and with all the new rare colorations we make little distinction of patterns...becayse it is masked by many of the mutant color genome.

Still, we like a nice milky blue (pdr blue class)free from sootiness and flat black barring. To effectively create this flat black barring, both smooth and coarse spread areas; we must get the blue areas as light and clear as possible.

Since we do not understand the inheritance of (so) ; we wouldn't just cull all the sooty blue bars. It would be like culling out show type splashes, when we can use them to make good whites. Even saddles will work..Since we do not understand pied, saddle, magpie, bald, etc.. How can we cull anything out; rather use the typy ones to make colors.. especially if we can see that saddle TM's lead to TM's and to BM's. Simply 'set' what you want...but, run the TYPE !

Look to the 'cut in the blue areas of the tail..on a bar , it should be the same coloration as the body. Now, look to the SELFS.. a KITE, which is not the least bit bluish, or plummy anywhere, especially the rear end fluff and the tail blue areas of the norm; should be bronze..or black( just not spread factor..) we know about Spread, but the bronze.. who knows" not even the Shadow.

KITE is not simple, but we like to think that it most profound in untainted Bk wing Archangels. i am told that SF TUMBLERs produce Agates and the Ka does not.. Disagree.. not here...never..ever...

There is no such thing as an AGATE!! It is merely descriptive! The best Classical Almonds are with a bk wing Ka....tho?

We have seen the bar pattern to the T- pattern... They said Spread maskes all bronze..yet we have spread black with bronze wings...of the ts genome..

Point might be that we know the definetions, and understand what makes a clean, clear, bar with distinctive black barring, brown, ash red etc..but, we do not know what Kite is?? Why not print the EFC STANDARD of PERFECTION so the people who want to know about proper bar coloration can see it for themselves.

One Genepooler says he wants to cross ices into his bars to make these clean ,clear and beautiful barred colorations.. the way they were defined years ago in the Color definetions of the EFC accepted Standard of Perfection...Does anyone have a copy...??


The tail shot is not 414 YC, but #969-03 A January hatch! He is the result of a dozen years of GENEPOOL'E'BREEDING The Grand-damn on either side ,is a brown lace tail, type two ,with smaller tail, but with the ability to WALK and show the Physical changes seen in a CHIRA STATE. This is an example of 'LUCK' for sure; but certainly, an example of upgrading with a show type Modtail, of the old MOD Quad Family( and an understanding that the MOD QUADS were not only ts1//ts1, but as much Type Perfection as ever existed..IE et tal!

This is #414-03,YC, also a January hatch. He was mated but Old black hen was non productive.She of the spread ts1 mods of more recent vintage. She would have been a great addition to the fs Families'because she is also ts1//? ! her TYPE, her depth, her tail size, her pocket, her lines and her ability to roll down between 65mm length of THIGH. ( from the Pivot Point on Jim's Rendering/yel saddle; we need to incinuate that the angle of line to knee point is elavated more so than in this rendering; which is prohibitive with a shorter THIGH bone.Roll down coupled with increased THIGH Length gives more underbelly; which is condusive to roundness, roll down gives the low rounders with the ability to WALK! #414 has a definete head position, but looks too bully of neck here..still ,if he had the lower bodee of 969 and his tail....(Would such a black be eligable to compete for that CFC TROPHY? NOT a BLACK RIGHT? Dom Opal Lace wings are not Saddles either?, but splashes are OK in the saddle classes...We might think of an agate self in a rec red Class, before it moults white, but we would definetly not cull it for this whiteness...?)# 414 was bred from a different mating; Here the Damn was directly from a top modquad; The Sire, a second year moult showed some fs penatrance.


We note firstly that the Stencil is plural. We see toy stencil, a complexity of pairs to at least three; we see fs//fs, or frill stencil as a reccessive. That means that Frills are ts and fs!

Toy stencil in platinum white reduction with its black edging is the ultimate in marking; altho the apparent white side with ts is the most powerful ts genome and is the cloice for an outcross.

At the opposite end of the white side , best with Spead black, and rec red...for the Power seen so much enhanced, by homogenation of the ts1,2,and, of three.

Three is the so called INVISIABLE GENE; so called because it shows only when ts1 and ts2 are all loci! We also think that Leb bronze is the illusive ts3!!!

Now that's the Genetics stuff; but we like to think that TYPE is most important ; still, we cannot ponder enough at the sight of a TYPE TWO DIMension with delicate lacing on the shield, but maybe not the neck. We have been thanking extreme sooty(so) for that inhibitation!

The hypothesis set forth is maybe unfounded..but, definetly not open to right or wrong; maybe just a stepping stone to more understanding; til then,though;can we slip away unseen, and un-noticed, by seeking the truths of observation.

One might sum this up in a single paragraph, even, a single sentence? It is only the Family relationships, or the alignnments of the individuals in that FAMILY which will best supply the pieces required, if not culled prematurely , or without a certain test mating ! ; that we will see the one in four of fs//fs produced from carrier parentage.

Tim long since has said, along with others , that there was really never a 1:4 fs//fs produced from carriers...several things become apparent? The genetics follows a statisical control? Which means that we may not see the ONE in FOUR fs//fs until we produce 16 or more youngsters...

We have noted that if the OUTCROSS is consistant with retentsion of all them pieces required; which is modena bronze(ts1); Leb bronze, the ts3; and ts two in at least the heterozygous state! It is still greater than one in four that we will produce our first completely Homozygousity for all four pairs. Two is 1 in 16? 4 prs is ??, when they said they saw one in 178 which was ts plat expression..

Here is why ERVIN, in the past Decade set the fs//fs and certainly some of the ts seemed to be linked, and dragged along ! At this point we want to upgrade for TYPE. What to use?

We should use Modtails with everything in the 'new type phenotypes; They will have the ts1//ts and we are better at looking to see the one in four in fs//fs; but, then there's those three other ts pairs...But not , but two prs with modtail upgrade; and then, if seeing is believing and ts3 is leb bronze, or not!, we still have what ever it is in there.. now we look for but one pr.. and it is also there; now go for it.. heck, it's just homozygosity for 4 pairs ?? And, what the TYPE get us? ....

We refuse to accept the possibilities..we move for that one with color/marking; and we move also for that TYPE PERFECTION. We pack the pieces for both; we pad the deck?We look for that one in 264 or more!!

WE mate to secure the Modtails; we mate to secure the color; we move that the fs//fs is the best 'bridge cross to push the ts thru to platinum expression. We use ts/modquads crosses for TYPE TWO DIMENSION, as well we use Modena bronze, the ts1//ts1 and the ts from lark for ts2 and ts3. Where three is also part of the modena genome? Leb bronzing is a factor, maybe a fourth?..but necessary...

Babble, babble...ts to fs; and modtail to ts; and, ts to pure modquints( browns with KING bred Modena) THE GENEPOOLE calls it "pretzel Breeding".."EVERY WHICH WAY WE CAN,WITH WHAT WE GOT, and not culled, even a single piece, until we have better ; for hind sight, should only be used in case of emergency of improper culling, and one sided, 'like' breeding practices; Maintaining a COLOR , TYPE and even a combination of Color and TYPE....But do not LOCK up each family , with inbreeding, that it will take you another decade to upgrade the TYPE....

PRETZEL BREEDING is the answer? The beginning of a Project is not the same as down the road! Thinking must be more critical to identify the pieces as they appear; same pieces together, otherwise additive, or synergistic; is a key to proper POINT BLENDING, SELECTION and CULLING.

PRETZEL BREEDING to the Genepoole is breeding most everything until we see that genome is not part of the mind's eye picture? JE has called it every which way we can.." Mate backwards, forwards and combine, and maintain the TYPE pieces , as well the COLOUR.

If we, for a moment, think, that we can call out what any pair will produce before we evaluate every youngster produced..NOT! The "OLD GUYS", used to say: "THAT the UNTRIED YOUNGSTERS are a RISK; still, if we are to go FORWARD, it lies within them to do so. At the same time to destroy, Farm out, or cull certain Useful Old ones is falacy.

Did you ever notice the years' cycle and when you evaluate; you see a bunch of 'LIKES' (same phenotypes, with the same taints and Faults) , Nothing to push you Forward ? The 'UNLIKE individuals comprise the ' EXTREMES' often seen ; or, just a different 'build' from the ground up. It is the Point Blending of such individuals that produce the 'HETEROTIC' basis for moving FORWARD! Those so called 'sports' or that individual that: is so far ahead of their time.

SIXER MENTALITY is defined in several ways, depending on the WRITING, or the WRITER. But, the bottom line is it is KEY in the Health and Well BEING of the Fantail HOBBY. O'DELL defines it as the "REFINING of POINTS".

Individual Fanciers are well known for their Leg work with CARRIAGE 'in' MOTION....But each time an individual runs it by us; we have to study, re-read, and get their prospectus. This is a positive thing; it is prefered over an instant reply : LIKE he's incorrect..or it isn't the way I see it!

That is a correct reaction, just that if we take the time to learn something from such statements; that we can continue such inputting, called 'brain storming sessions' and continue the good work of every Fancier..Newby, or Old Goat. ( We should know if we belong to the "OLD GOAT CLUB"!! LOL...)


(When the 'E' is on the spelling, let it be known that E stands for Jim ERVIN, our MASTER BREEDER. OUR FOUNDER, and our MENTOR. It is not only Jim's Mentorism's; but, his Philosophy's of LIFE and HOBBY that has built a FOUNDATION for the FANTAIL GENEPOOLE... or GENE POOL EEE....

The FRILL STENCIL I used came from Ballenger . A coloured individual with white flights, The white flights have proven to be a pain; still, we used him. The idea that we must start with all the pieces for TYPE and coloration/marking; is also the idea that if we are not making lace in saddles; then we shouldn't use saddles or original crosses with WF's!

White Flights, Pied seem to be disliked? Like Checkers and Splashes rec reds ...I really don't think that these are much different than boots,peaks and the like. But, to accept , more than once thick wings, or a lack of pocket in fantail breeding is a longer row to how , because you miss the roots on some weeds; and they come up again....

Spending time getting rid of WF's or pied or other 'z' locus genes is like rooting out the crop your weeding. IE Someplace it says..we don't weed until no harm can come to the main crop...maybe after we produce several that among them have the colour, the marking of Stencils, and the TYPE.

THE TYPE is free of wing problems, and head pocket problems from the beginning's of any PROJECT. But we must be aware that thick wings is a CULL..everytime..excepting one time! and it's mate MUST be perfection! Tight pocket is a multiplicity, and so we must address it from the standpoint , that only experience teaches; Or What pieces are necessary? Mostly I would say all pieces that is to include, stiltiness, even apple on a stick; crouching, straight legs. etc. I have not had any problems resetting anything; but, we maintain already developed MOD QUADS and these from highly selected pure fantails from the best stocks. Plural.

Refining of points is necessary in separate Family's. These are THE BEST! The Best are always used to make the RARE COLOURS. The Mode Quads, Mod Quints and now the SIXER MODTAILS ( or six outcrosses for both color and TYPE enhancements) Understand, this is not achieved in several years, or even a decade , as with the complicated ts or ice .

THE FRILL STENCILS will bring the enhancement required without another outcross..The Genepoole, has shortened the process. Modena was used to make TRI COLOURS, it magically carried some heterotic genome that pushed pure fantails ahead of their time. The ma//ma is ts1//ts1; a fact that was given to us by Paul Gibson; and one of many! We now look to rcbc,gb and gb. THE TWO GB's and rcbc.....(having FUN, I am)

more coming on this breeding season and hopes of Starting two more stencil breeders this Fall... If we want to see stencils exceed has to be a TEAM effort..THE GENEPOOL TEAM...

The frill stencils finally bred that one in four youngster..actually one in two..but with the next clutch ; We will bet on the one in four..then 1:6 ETC. I guess, that is why we always said... if the possibility is valid on producing a specific combination , be it 1:4, or 1 in 264...I am only interested in the ONE! (It is like a CONSENSOUS of ONE?)

I expect that this one is LUCK partly?; but the alighnments of the mating are Quads! (Quads is a software term that can create an 'exception report with a preferred mating listed. It is the ability of the program to see which individuals have the specifiv genome to reach a goal, or improvement with the selection of the best male and female..point blending with the most pieces! (the only problem is that we cannot identify all of these pieces? Further, tho, the idea that the birds have the answers is substantiated. IE THE GENEPOOLE started with FRILLS; well laced,as well, a white side black or rec red; but not a BLOND, if not for saddle breeding; but a Sattinette..for selfs; since worming does not eliminate white flights or other pied and /or'z' loci??

THE TYPE PERFECTION we are seeking is that of FUTURA, which is a TYPE THREE DIMENSION. Which, comes of the TYPE TWO DIMENSION. It, however is not stickly a GENOME variation; but an ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONING, coupled with certain 'fatso types', which genome sutlely reinforce the TYPE TWO PHENOTYPE , dipicted on both the Spock and Mck URL's. THIs is a summation of the expected process; however the KEY WORDS..CONDITIONING,and, fatso Genome has been defined..In these definetions lies the understanding of just how TYPE TWO PERFECTIONS become TYPE THREE PERFECTION with a relaxing roll down, between the legs!We have left a more complete explanation to 'E' in GENEPOOLE..and it is simply stated.. HOW and WHY!

The one has a peak...another has boots! What does this tell us? LINKAGE?? Maybe? maybe just that align ment of genome on both sides of a mating that carries with it certain unknowns, without which..we can never re create the original FRILL STENCILING....

Instead of a SIXER dividing each into component parts they look to the 'whole phenotype'...contrare' to genetic thinking and is not all right, as we first thought! It is the ability of a BREEDER to perceive first and then place what is perceived into a single mating or two or three..........OR SIX... that which contains, Genome that is of the so called 'QUAD' Each Quadrant, each of their inheritance and that of their parents, at first, and minimally must come of all the pieces and not any being culled, ;in order to substantiate the prescence of all the pieces we need to create the ORIGINAL COLOURATION and it's proper marking/lacing. In order to become a refiner; we must first think Genepool, and set the genome with all those pieces. Culling before we know what the birds know is self destructive...and the leading cause of Fanciers leaving the Fantail Hobby for another Breed. It is not POLITICS as first suspected; as we can teach our Fanciers to be the best they can be in this MELLENNIUM..with what makes up the BREEDING, and THE SHOWMANSHIP of it tal ?? If not for such things we would stand still.and live in total complatency??

To unlock the meaning of A MOdest Proposal, ENGLISH LITertature, Poetry..we must first seek out the POET, his time and his personal weaknesses; only then can we understand that a MODEST PROPOSAL was superficially a sickening Poem..uncouth, rude and not acceptable by any means! STILL, after study of said POET we understand clearly what was being said..what was the POINT!!

12/19/2003 Update status GENEPOOLE .
The O'dell number '7' drawing shows the 'new type' Fantail. The new type' is a cobby' low rounder with the ability to WALK..a proper Visual with body to top- tail conformation; which shows a roundness of body so desired; tight pocket and lines; widely set (longer) LEGS and of course ,this number '7' shows a TYPE THREE PHENOTYPE that is expected with a Taller Type before the moult, and depending on CONDITION and HEALTH the'bull'phenotype.(increased bodee depth over the old up types. )

We have said that a 4-6 inch cube, with the corners knocked off gave us the Bodee depth,Bodee height,(not to include leg length) and the body widths as close to equal as possible.

Imerging from another year of breeding; coupled with the notable 'cobbiness of the Frill infusion; we have been able to create a modified mind's eye.

Recalling that we spoke of the 'rotation' of the bodee between the longer' Legs as a solution to the total height problem!

We now refresh our thinking by thinking that we can further reduce the height with the 'cobby trait' of the frill crosses. This fact can be explained in a negative body height dimension, which will allow further ilusion of ROUNDNESS within the meat & feather!

We, of course, will have to SELECT from a variety of phenotypes, otherwise defined by the 'SIXER Mentality as CULLS.... Since the Sixer wants to be able to create Toppers and COMPETE from year to year?; We are suggesting that we create a side Family. of semi outcross alignments so that we can enjoy each yr of breeding.

Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:04:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "jeff batton" View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by Learn more Subject: Ice Page To: "RT McK" Mckee What is good about your page - you spelled my name correctly. What is not so good - Type Three (the Baller) would be great if we ever wanted to go bowling, but as a Fantail it is a ball with legs, wings, tail, and a head pasted on. Reminds me of a bird with a bad case of gas. Also, the Drawings showing the hip socket, knee, drum stick, ankle, and shank are all wrong. There locations and there very short lengths are all wrong. In reality they are much longer - the socket to knee bone is longer and angles upward more before the bones starts downward. Grade school work. Buy one of those plastic pigeon skeleton models that show up on ebay from time to time - it will help correct this. What is good - the Ultima by Pogue/Arena. Why! Because the head placement is higher on the bird to give the tail stem a higher setting, which allows for more top tail. You can't have a head at 9 o'clock like some want, when that puts the tails base at the ass holes location on the ground. Those are dollar birds - long high bodies with low set tails that just peak their tips over the breast, but are still loved for those every large tails. Before the 75th these tall types won in the heart land, except at Central when the Canadians showed up. There are those that still dislike Canadians for introducing small round birds into tall country. But the truth be known that the center stage showboaters were buying all the small rounders they could as they judged and picked the tall types. They know what is good but prefer to be the ones at the top at the big top. But what is important about Ultima that is not being highlighted enough is the legs. They are not out like some stupid Baller's glued on, but the are out front. Ok time for history to take over. The Dundee mother of all of todays Fantails and the English triple-tier tail monster that House used to create the Dancer both had legs under the body like homers or rollers. As House put a dash of Dundee blood into his English birds to get their carriage off the floor and raise that huge tail back up from the lids covering two things happened. Much to the discern of the English followers of John Moore's ideal the dominant short neck of the Dundee sharted to lower the long English necks. At first the neck shortened but remained course from the course English feathers and still held its upright position. These are called the "Interim" Fantails in the late 1870's press in both England and America. House used the Hybred method, as a break through came it was inbred and not bred back into the original stock, which would have degenerated the break through. But another thing was happening that no one saw coming, as the English body started to rise up their legs came along with it - moving out from under the body. The Dundee had a high breast setting like todays Fantails, but its legs were still under the body like the homer and rollers. In the final stage House created the Dancers. They had the English triple-tier lace tails (a course broad feathering) but the body of the Dancer had Dundee fine tight feathering. You see the feathering qualities and even bones on the different parts of a Fantail are not necessarily related to each other and can be independent of each other - ie. it does not follow that long tail feathers have to cause long wing feathers. Once you get this anything on a Fantail is possible. The Dancers had the round Dundee bodies that were even more broad and rounder than anything seen before. But most remarkable was the legs, which were out front much more than anything seen today. Yes you can have far out legs and the bird can still walk very well on them - those that say they can't are full of shit, are stupid, and more than likely are incharge today. The Dancer's legs when combined with the Motion of the Dundee (a nervous condition that caused the Scot to walk backwards) on the Dancer's farward legs cause the birds on their high four toed stance to turn in circles like little ballerinas - hence my term Dancers. They were the greatest Fantail of them all, but also the shortest lived. The Dancer won back the championship for the English that they had lost to the Dundee when their birds went to pot before 1870, but their notorietiy was their undoing. Everyone wanted them, and in America breeders like Major Frank M. Gilbert imported them by the crate. Sadly even the greatest American breeder of the 19th century was as stupid as our Fantail breeder are in the 21st century. He did not believe in inbreeding and crossed the Dancers back into his loft of Dundees - we followed the shows in England and had been importing the show winning dundees since 1876. Thank God the forward legs held and did not go back under again, but the English tails were lost to the Dundees edge-to-edge tight feathering. The new birds that appeared in the 1890's are the Modern Fantails that you are working with today. At first the bodies - at least on some of them - went long and up. This is the origin of the tall type that is represented by the Majors great 1890's champion and its 1920's look alike - the Sully's Cock. As the 19th century went on the body of the Modern Fantail started its downward trek. The mid-bodies are the tall type that you speak of today and the low rounders are the Canadian type. Now it is true that the body drops down between the legs, but stop right there. It is ok for the body to drop, but it is not ok to let the leg go back. The Ultima of Pogue/Arena is best because it has the legs out front. God help us if those fools ever let the legs start their journey back under the bird, as the Engliah and Dundee ancestor had them. The Fantail is unique in the pigeon world because of those forward legs and they should be potected at all cost. But we today have stupidity leading apathy down a path to nowhere, and please paste this posting on your home page dear MckBreeder friend. Skinner RT McK wrote: SEE my WEBPAGE in black any comments