As always, the sender's mails are in bold with my responses in regular type and editing for clarity is in italics.  There were three 

different trains of conversation with the same individual, the three trains of letters are 

separated by hard rules.<p>

<b>Yes.  I disagree with your book reviews and opinions.  Just thought you  should know.</b>

<p>

Any thing in particular in the book reviews you'd like to discuss?

<p>

Did you go to my main page, and if you did, do you disagree with my opinion of spirituality's two common ideas?

<p>

<b>

I pretty much disagreed with everything...which is why I figured I'd let you  know.  If I had 

only disagreed with some, or pieces of what you said that would have been pretty normal...

very curious indeed.

<p>

Very simply let me demonstrate  my meaning in a short dialogue between Jim and Bob.

<p>

Bob:  I don't believe in God.<br>

Jim:  I don't believe in atheists.

<p>

I suppose that sort of sums up you and me.  I'll see if I can't find something more concrete to 

talk about on your web page.  I suppose we could start with your evaluation of C.S. Lewis' 'Mere 

Christianity' but I don't have my copy handy and I'd like to make quotes.

<p>

Take care, stay away from earthquakes.

</b>

<hr>

<b>

This won't really make any sense to you, but I recieved this e-mail a few days ago from a friend 

of mine.  We don't agree on everything but I just thought I'd shove it your way.  Its really 

nothing extremely exciting about it, nothing more than an honest rambling, but it exhibits a way 

of thinking so contrary to your own that I wonder what your reaction will be.  Here it is, 

quoted word for word.<p>

"Hi Russ,<p>

I must say your email has challenged me. I haven't ever gotten a response to an email quite like 

yours before. It really made me think a lot about the words I use to say things and how I 

communicate things to people. I guess I should think a little more before I speak or in this 

case write something. I wanted to make some additional comments about what I wrote.<p>

When I talked about hiding from the world I was meaning that in the most personal way, not to be

implied that Jesus hid from the world, what I should have probably written was that Jesus went 

alone to seek his fathers will. When I said surrender our hearts what I meant is to lay down all 

of my plans present and future, and seek God's will, to deny myself, and be obedient to what he 

wants me to do. To be still and know that he is God, to be sensitive to his Holy Spirit, to come 

to the Lord and rest in his presence, and to proceed in his power, with his fragrance still fresh 

on me. To have my mind renewed and cleansed from the filth of the world. Anyway, I still think 

its important to take time away from the world and pray, maybe that doesn't seem like surrender, 

but I know that there is more than one way to surrender, in the same way that there is more than

one type of sacrifice.</b>

<p>

He's immersed in magical thinking.

<p>

<b>

About dating, I don't think its a game. Cause I have played games and they are fun, and most of 

the time the only scars they leave are physical. I have seen my Christian brothers and sisters 

give each other so much needless heart-break and emotional pain. I have watched some of my best 

friends, get in a relationship and totally ignore everyone else including God and their families 

for someone that they don't even know. I have seen my sister try to figure out her life after her 

Christian boyfriend of four years broke up with her for another girl. I have watched my Mom try 

to salvage her life and finances after my father left without saying a word, and leaving only 

bills and confusion on his trip to California where he is living in his camper on his truck. And 

I don't think my Mom wanted to play a game when she accepted my fathers request for her hand in 

marriage. And I am not going to play games when I choose the woman that I am going to spend the 

rest of my life with.</b>

<p>

Life is tough, no argument.  Love is work, any relationship is work, but the loving ones are 

worth the effort.

<p>

<b>

Beyond all of that I want to keep my heart pure for my wife. I wish that I hadn't ever had a 

girlfriend. I wish I could stand on the alter someday and have my first kiss with the woman I am 

going to spend the rest of my life with, to only know the intimacy of her and my father. But I 

polluted my life with the choices I made, and the memories still linger like cancer. I don't want 

to make any more provisions for my flesh. So I want to keep any relationships that I have with 

women as pure as I can. And at least for me women were a huge stumbling block for me in the past 

and I think it would be foolish for me to date when I am not ready for marriage. Besides all of 

that I haven't been walking with Christ all that long as it is, and I know that I have a lot of 

maturing to do before I am ready to become a spiritual leader for a home.

</b>

<p>

He's starting to remind me of Paul.

<p>

Go live in a Christian Commune or something and let those who run the place choose your mate.  

On the theory that those who run the place are filled by the Spirit, they'll always make the 

right choice....do you remember the Branch Davidians down in Waco?  I think Hare Krishna 

communes are run on the same theory too.

<p>

<b>

About God's will, he definitely is concerned about our motivation behind what we do, but he is 

also very concerned about what actions are actually taking place in our life's. He wants to see 

the fruits of the Spirit. Paul said that he had a clear conscience about persecuting the Church, 

he thought he was doing Gods will, and he may have had all of the right intentions in the world, 

but he still got blinded for three days. God had a different plan for Paul's life than being a 

Pharisee, he wanted him to preach the gospel. So I think that its a combination, not just why we 

are doing something but what we are doing. Faith without works is dead. We aren't saved by our 

works but, if we are walking in the Spirit, then people will know that we are his disciples by 

our love and the other fruits of the Spirit.

</b>

<p>

Again, magical thinking.  And the basis of that magic is the relationship, or potential 

relationship, between the individual's spirit and the superspirit of god.

<p>

Why would anyone in a technological culture such as ours still believe they have an immaterial 

spirit thing in them?  What does a spirit do?  Let me point you toward Churchland's 

"Neurophilosophy" or Crick's "Astonishing Hypothesis" for background on how the brain does what 

spirits and Platonic forms are supposed to do.  The work isn't complete, but the direction the 

research is going seems clear.

<p>

What does a superspirit do anyway?  The most basic answer is, <i>it</i> is the prime mover.  But that 

prime mover isn't required, at least mathematically (or so I've read).

<p>

If we don't need spirits to live, love, and function; if the universe and what fills it doesn't 

need a prime moving spirit; then why indulge in this magical thinking? 

<p>

<b>

Anyway, I thank you for you challenging email. I appreciate your honest opinion. Have a great day.

<p>

God bless you"

<p>

What do you think about someone like this?  If you were standing face to face with them and they 

said these words to you, what would you say to them?

<p>

I'm just curious.</b>

<hr>

<b>

Would you satisfy my curiosity by answering me a question?

<p>

Do you believe in free will?</b>

<p>

If you plan on replying that we can't have free will if we don't have a 

personal agent, a soul thingy, please don't bother.  We do what we want 

because of our brain's functioning.  The whole free will argument is 

based on some stupid notion that we need souls to make us operate, but 

does god control those souls or not, are we made for a specific task? 

Do our souls have free will?  You have to start by assuming you have a 

soul to even ask the question.

<p>

Souls don't aid <i>free will</i> any more than brains do, it moves it back a 

step from the body to the soul.  The question only makes sense if you 

have a god made soul.

<p>

Now, my question still stands: why should I believe I have a soul? 

Don't put your free-will supposition of souls as proof and don't put 

your soul-affirming literature (that supposes a soul to talk to god 

with) as proof.  The brain's activity can be measured...how do you 

measure a soul?

<p>

<b>

Here's my take on the issue.  Ok.  So I think at least on a basic level that 

you're right.  I can't show you a soul.  I can't point to it, I can't 

measure it, I can't tell you what color it is, what its made of, if it has 

parts, who put there or anything about it really.  Fine.  So my question is 

this.  If this is the case, and I think most people agree it is, why do so 

many people still believe in a soul/spirit?  If its so frieking obvious that 

no such thing exists then why do people continue to struggle with the issue. 

  Why do people believe they have a soul to begin with?

<p>

If I told you that I had a tail you wouldn't believe me because you can't 

see it, can't point at it and I can't wag it for you.  I can't show you my 

tail.  But the point is, unless I'm delusional, I'm not going to think that 

I have a tail and I'm not going to tell you that I have one.

<p>

Yet, throughout the history of mankind and throughout today, EVEN with our 

modern technoloical discoveries and whatnot, people still continue to 

believe in the existence of souls.

<p>

To simply say, I don't believe in a soul because there's no proof or 

objective reason for me to do so is simply evading the question.  You're not 

saying anything new or interesting at all.  You're just simply shoving the 

issue aside and ignoring the strange phenomenon.

<p>

"Truth IS stranger than fiction".

<p>

In order to truly grasp the issue you need to be able to answer the question 

of why smart, intelligent, educated people still believe in the existence of 

spirits and souls and what not (to use your terminology).  If you can come 

up with a reasonable hypothesis to explain the phenomenon then I would be 

more interested.  But a flat refusal of belief is rather boring.

</b>

<p>

You answer this question yourself near the end of your response:

<p>

"...but there's one thing that I've learned from experience that 

there's really very little to argue about.  Its very simple.  Jesus Christ 

changes people's lives.  Whether He's real or not that's a fact.  I have 

personally witnessed remarkable change in myself and in many of the people 

around me.

<p>

People often ask the question, "what is the difference between Christians 

and non-Christians?"  there are a lot of answers people give but in short 

there are 2 things that I believe.   The first is that people who know 

Christ are changed from who they once were.  They're not necessarily nicer, 

smarter, less sinful, better, happier or anything like that.  But they are 

changed and that change brings them closer to the truth of who they are. (or 

objectively who they think they are).  the second thing is that they have 

hope.  What hope has the man without faith?  Hope of death? old age? 

mistreatment? the daily grind in a survival of the fittest world?  Hope of 

riches that can not buy you health or love?  Hope of love based on brain 

chemical reaction and evolutionary strategy?

<p> 

A man hopes not for what he already has.

<p>

I should say that I don't think non-Christians are totally without hope. 

But whatever hope they have lies within this world or is make believe.  And 

it pales like a candle to the sun of the hope people have in Christ Jesus, 

savior of humanity, son of God, son of Man, born in humility and crucified 

in shame for the forgiveness and salvation of the human race.  Prince of 

Peace, King of Kings, Lord of the Heavens, Redeemer, Teacher, the Servant 

King.  He who loves me, regarless of my faithlessness and sin."

<p> 

In short...people believe in souls and gods because it feels good.  The 

claims you make for Jesus above are the same claims every other religion 

makes for its earthly revelator and the effects of that religion upon 

its followers.  You've answered your own question, the phenomenon of 

belief in souls gives meaning to some people's lives.

<blockquote>

<b>

Ok.  Fine.  While I wouldn't say that the claims of Christianity are the 

same as every other religion (quite the contrary actually...but a seperate 

topic) I see that in a VERY general sense that is true.  But from your 

perspective that doesn't matter.  Either religious claims are true or they 

are not.  The fact that Christianity's claims are similar to those of other 

religions says nothing about whether religious claims in general are true or 

not.  If we have A and B (both boolean-True or False) and we say C is 

similar to B, that doesn't say anything about the validity of B at all.

</b>

<blockquote>

This is the reason I look at the commonalities of spiritual systems.  If 

the commonalities are worth investing time in then a more thorough 

investigation is warranted.  I can only find two commonalities.

<p>

It sounds like you agree with me that looking at any particular religion 

individually does not answer any questions but only begs comparisons. 

But more to the point, looking at the claims individuals make for their 

religions does not prove anything conclusively about that religon as 

religious people make similar claims.

</blockquote>

<b>

Then you say that the phenomenon of belief in souls gives meaning to some 

people's lives.  Right, that is a small portion of an answer to my original 

question.  The question the is this reason a valid one for believing in 

spiritual things?  

</b>

<blockquote>

Is the question "why do smart, intellegent, educated people still 

believe in the existence of spirits and souls" ?  I don't know about 

smart people but I believed it because I was taught to believe it and 

letting go of the notion banged up against some notions that, upon 

examination, looked and then proved to be (at least in my experience), 

flimsy. 

</blockquote>

<b>

Its certainly not an objective, testable, scientific 

reason.  

</b>

<blockquote>

Which is what I've tried to communicate through my website.

</blockquote>

<b>

But that doesn't mean it doesn't hold validity.  

</b>

<blockquote>

Yes in deed, but faith is a matter of faith.  If it feels good to hold 

it, then hold it to yourself.  You can't spread it around as factual and 

objective.  You can spread it for what it is: magical thinking that 

feels good sometimes.

</blockquote>

<b>

Does life have 

meaning?  

</b>

<blockquote>

"Life" generically or individually?  Individual's meaning for life is 

individual.  My meaning is my kids and wife, I enjoy my jobs, and I get 

some satisfaction from my web site.  Generically?  I don't see a need 

for an existential meaning to life from viruses to men.

</blockquote>

<b>

If you answer 'no' to this question then this would not be a valid 

reason to believe in souls.  But, of course, with that kind of perspective 

your life will inevitably suck (I could expand here but I don't want to get 

too riled).  (note:  I don't think that you should accept a premise just 

based on a desired result...but I don't want to get into arguing about 

whether or not life has meaning or not)

</b>

<blockquote>

Which meaning of "life" do you mean: life generically or individual lives?

</blockquote>

<b>

If you start with the premise that 'life does have meaning', then in order 

to satisfy that statement logically you must be able to back it up with a 

cause for meaning and exactly what that meaning is.  Since no other 

explanation for meaning in life exists in science or anything like that 

(unless you're an idiot and believe in subjective meaning...which is really 

the same thing as self delusion...) then it would be 'reasonable' to believe 

in souls as the only means available to establish your starting premise 

(Sherlock Holmes).  

</b>

<blockquote>

So I guess souls are the cause of meaning you write about above?  What 

about saying "exactly what that meaning is"?  I don't see that in your 

letter.

<blockquote>

<b>

The question then is what is the soul, which religion is 

true...etc....which is where the differences in Christianity from everything 

else become important.</b>

</blockquote>

<b>

I don't believe in Unicorns...but nobody else does either.

<p>

As for the free will thing...as I said, I was just curious.  But you didn't 

answer the question.  I was sort of hoping for a yes or a no.

</b>
<p>
I answered in a convoluted way because I have seen that question asked 

as a trap.  The trap is based on soulish thinking as I tried to explain.

<p>

Yes...I do what I want.  My "will" is free.  The question about will 

being free or not, however, is based on the notion that god made 

everything, set it in motion...so are we really free to make our own 

minds up since god set the whole thing going?  Do we really do what we 

want if the clockmaker set us up?

<p>

It's a silly notion, free will.

<blockquote>

<b>

Actually that's not the angle I was taking.  Maybe I should have asked you 

the question, "do you believe in agents?". 

</b>

<blockquote>

Whether you call it an agent, a disembodied mind, or a soul doesn't 

matter as they are the same.  If brains take in inputs and decide 

outputs how does inserting an agent change things?  Now the agent takes 

inputs and decides outputs.  What little I know of this problem comes 

from an essay in Brittanica's "Great Books of the Western World" in one 

of the volumes called "The Great Ideas", it's an index and topic guide. 

But as I recall, primarily Kant I think, the idea of freewill comes up 

because if god created everything...started the clockwork universe and 

the souls that populate it...then it can only work a certain way.  If 

you apply the idea above to a universe without a god you still get 

determinism.  If you apply the ideas of chaos theory, that one little 

undetermined happening would occur and spread even more chaos.  Thus 

freewill.  Chaos also applies to a god created universe...thus 

freewill...but suddenly god can't be omniscient and Christians can't be 

elected sons and daughters of Jesus (bummer!).  For this reason I write:

<br>

Only from a theistic perspective.

<br>

and you responded:<br> 

Not really.

<p>

I have answered your "not really" to my satisfaction and won't say 

anything more about it.

</blockquote>

<b>

Let me explain.  If the human 

brain is soley responsible for a person's personality, memory, decision 

making, etc... and the brain is a purely biological/chemical organ that 

functions based on cause and effect (like the rest of the universe made of 

mass, electrons, etc...) then wouldn't it be fair to conclude that a 

person's brain/personality/decisions are really just a complicated chemical 

reaction?  There are a lot of inputs that go in and then the brain does 

outputs.  We call these outputs 'choices', but, if this were true, that 

would be a funny and inaccurate descripion as their was no choice involved.  

The brain does not ever decide between different actions it simply 'reacts' 

chemically (lots of neurons and what not).  Were this true, it would be fair 

to say that if you were all knowing, you would be able to predict exactly 

what a person would do before they did it...in fact, you could predict the 

entire history and future of the universe without actually experiencing it 

just by following out all of the cause and effects either backwards or 

forwards.

<p>

To me personally I think that's a bunch of B.S.  I start with the premise of 

free will...the future is not an effect of the present...but depends upon 

our choices.  Nothing else makes intuitive sense...and once again, I don't 

know enough (not ever will I) to disprove my intuition.  This again, would 

then require something to establish the 'choice' we intuitively have in 

making decisions...thus, reason to believe in 'something else'...a soul for 

no better name.

</b>

</blockquote>

<b>

I suppose my reason for asking the question was not really to prove the 

existence of the soul.  If that could really be done, at least in a way that 

was so clear and obvious that none could refute it...scientifically let's 

say.... then it wouldn't be an interesting topic anymore because no one 

would debate it.  My point was more simple than that.  I asked the question 

because its a hard question.  My point, which I think I proved by your 

evasive answer, was that you, or I, really have no frieking clue.  We don't 

know, we can't know, we probably never will know.  

</b>
<p>
Only from a theistic perspective.

<blockquote>

<b>

Not really.

</b>

</blockquote>

<b>

Thus, I question the conviction of your decisive atheistic conclusions in the lack of full 

knowledge.

</b>
<p>
I don't have to know everything to know when something doesn't make sense.

<blockquote>

<b>

Really?<p>

Counter example:  Is light a particle or a wave?  It doesn't make sense that 

it could be both.  But it is.

</b>

</blockquote>

<b>

I know a few things from real life that aren't very scientific.  In case you 

haven't guessed (I was trying not to make it too obvious) I am a Christian.  

Maybe there's an alternative explanation for everything I have experinced in 

my life, but there's one thing that I've learned from experience that 

there's really very little to argue about.  Its very simple.  Jesus Christ 

changes people's lives.  Whether He's real or not that's a fact.  I have 

personally witnessed remarkable change in myself and in many of the people 

around me.

<p>

People often ask the question, "what is the difference between Christians 

and non-Christians?"  there are a lot of answers people give but in short 

there are 2 things that I believe.   The first is that people who know 

Christ are changed from who they once were.  They're not necessarily nicer, 

smarter, less sinful, better, happier or anything like that.  But they are 

changed and that change brings them closer to the truth of who they are. (or 

objectively who they think they are).  the second thing is that they have 

hope.  What hope has the man without faith?  Hope of death? old age? 

mistreatment? the daily grind in a survival of the fittest world?  Hope of 

riches that can not buy you health or love?  Hope of love based on brain 

chemical reaction and evolutionary strategy?

<p>

A man hopes not for what he already has.

<p>

I should say that I don't think non-Christians are totally without hope.  

But whatever hope they have lies within this world or is make believe.  And 

it pales like a candle to the sun of the hope people have in Christ Jesus, 

savior of humanity, son of God, son of Man, born in humility and crucified 

in shame for the forgiveness and salvation of the human race.  Prince of 

Peace, King of Kings, Lord of the Heavens, Redeemer, Teacher, the Servant 

King.  He who loves me, regarless of my faithlessness and sin.

<p>

I ask you, am I a 'magical thinker'.  

</b>
<p>
Yes, apparently you are.

<blockquote>

<b>

Funny.  Didn't I just explain that Christianity has 'real life' effects.  If 

by 'magical' you mean 'real life' then I guess you're right.

</b>

<blockquote>

You agreed these "real life effects" are shared by all forms of theism.

The claims you've made:<br>

"They're (Christians) not necessarily nicer, smarter, less sinful, 

better, happier, or anything like that.  But they changed and that 

change brings them closer to the truth of who they are...they have 

hope."

<br>

can also be made for psychoanalysis, art, work, or scholarship, and 

undoubedly other activities.

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<b>

Is sin not a real thing?  

</b>
<p>
No, sin is not real since sin is a wrong against god's will and there is

no god.

<blockquote>

<b>

That's a circular argument.  How about hurt, pain, betrayal, lust, theft, 

selfishness, are those real?

</b>

</blockquote>

<b>

Is  forgiveness a magical thing.  

</b>
<p>
Yes and no.  Divine forgiveness is magical.  Forgiveness between people 

is real.

<blockquote>

<b>

Circular again.

</b>

<blockquote>

You can't separate god from wrongs against god.  Sin is a wrong against 

god.  Without god, you only have wrong.  Same with god's forgiveness.  I 

don't find these circular I find god to be part of the defintion of sin 

and god's forgiveness.

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<b>

Is death on a cross an event not recorded in 

the history books?  

</b>
<p>
No, it is not recorded in history books.

<blockquote>

<b>

Sorry, I shouldn't have used the term 'history books'.  They didn't have 

'history books' back in 30 AD. However, I would challenge you to show 

historically that the gospel accounts are inaccurate.  I think you'll find 

that they pass any and all criteria used for evaluating the validity of 

historical documents.

</b>

<blockquote>

I've got a review of Strobel's Case for Christ.  I don't take on all of 

Strobel's evidence, I discuss what he calls "the clincher":<br> 

https://www.angelfire.com/pa/ebrownle2/strobel.html

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<b>

Does the story of Christ, even if it is not true, not 

completely and utterly captivate your imagination? 

</b>
<p>
Yes, but so what.  See Joseph Campbell's "Masks of God" series or his 

"Hero with a Thousand Faces" for other, equally touching and moving, 

stories.

<blockquote>

<b>

I haven't read them.  But I doubt they are equally touching and moving...if 

they were wouldn't their have to be millions of 'hero' followers around the 

world.  Or if they are, its probably because they've copied things from the 

life of Jesus (eg  The Matrix)

</b>

<blockquote>

There are stories with deep roots in culture.  If the Matrix, Star Wars, 

Grapes of Wrath, Epic of Gigamesh, the story of Siddhartha under the 

Tree, or the Mahabharata reminds you of Biblical stories it is because 

the roots of these stories go deep and spread very broadly.  These same 

roots also feed the Bible.

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<b>

That you should be saved, not for the benefit of God almighty or because of your merit, but 

quite the opposite.  To share, In relationship with your Maker, Creator, Father, and Giver of 

Life.

</b>



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<script type="text/javascript" src="https://scripts.lycos.com/catman/init.js"></script>

<script type='text/javascript'>
 var googletag = googletag || {};
 googletag.cmd = googletag.cmd || [];
 (function() {
   var gads = document.createElement('script');
   gads.async = true;
   gads.type = 'text/javascript';
   var useSSL = 'https:' == document.location.protocol;
   gads.src = (useSSL ? 'https:' : 'http:') +
     '//www.googletagservices.com/tag/js/gpt.js';
   var node = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0];
   node.parentNode.insertBefore(gads, node);
 })();
</script>


<script type='text/javascript'>
 googletag.cmd.push(function() {
   googletag.defineSlot('/95963596/ANG_300x250_dfp', [300, 250], 'div-gpt-ad-1450207484070-0').addService(googletag.pubads());
   googletag.enableServices();
 });
</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>
 googletag.cmd.push(function() {
   googletag.defineSlot('/95963596/ANG_above_728x90_dfp', [728, 90], 'div-gpt-ad-1450207484070-1').addService(googletag.pubads());
   googletag.enableServices();
 });
</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>
 googletag.cmd.push(function() {
   googletag.defineSlot('/95963596/ANG_below_728X90_dfp', [728, 90], 'div-gpt-ad-1450207484070-2').addService(googletag.pubads());
   googletag.enableServices();
 });
</script>


<script type="text/javascript">
(function(isV) {
    if (!isV) {
        return;
    }

    //this.lycos_search_query = lycos_get_search_referrer();
    var adMgr = new AdManager();
    var lycos_prod_set = adMgr.chooseProductSet();
    var slots = ["leaderboard", "leaderboard2", "toolbar_image", "toolbar_text", "smallbox", "top_promo", "footer2","slider"];
    var adCat = this.lycos_ad_category;
    adMgr.setForcedParam('page', (adCat && adCat.dmoz) ? adCat.dmoz : 'member');

    if (this.lycos_search_query) {
        adMgr.setForcedParam("keyword", this.lycos_search_query);
    } 
    else if (adCat && adCat.find_what) {
        adMgr.setForcedParam('keyword', adCat.find_what);
    }

    for (var s in slots) {
        var slot = slots[s];
        if (adMgr.isSlotAvailable(slot)) {
            this.lycos_ad[slot] = adMgr.getSlot(slot);
        }
    }


    adMgr.renderHeader();
    adMgr.renderFooter();
}((function() {
    var w = 0, h = 0, minimumThreshold = 300;
    if (top == self) {
        return true;
    }

    if (typeof(window.innerWidth) == 'number' ) {
        w = window.innerWidth;
        h = window.innerHeight;
    }
    else if (document.documentElement && (document.documentElement.clientWidth || document.documentElement.clientHeight)) {
        w = document.documentElement.clientWidth;
        h = document.documentElement.clientHeight;
    }
    else if (document.body && (document.body.clientWidth || document.body.clientHeight)) {
        w = document.body.clientWidth;
        h = document.body.clientHeight;
    }

    return ((w > minimumThreshold) && (h > minimumThreshold));
}())));



window.onload = function() {
    var f = document.getElementById("lycosFooterAd");
    var b = document.getElementsByTagName("body")[0];
    b.appendChild(f);
    f.style.display = "block";
    document.getElementById('lycosFooterAdiFrame').src = '/adm/ad/footerAd.iframe.html';

    // Slider Injection
    (function() {
        var e = document.createElement('iframe');
        e.style.border = '0';
        e.style.margin = 0;
        e.style.display = 'block';
        e.style.cssFloat = 'right';
        e.style.height = '254px';
        e.style.overflow = 'hidden';
        e.style.padding = 0;
        e.style.width = '300px';
    })();


    // Bottom Ad Injection
    ( function() {
        var b = document.getElementsByTagName("body")[0];

        var iif = document.createElement('iframe');
        iif.style.border = '0';
        iif.style.margin = 0;
        iif.style.display = 'block';
        iif.style.cssFloat = 'right';
        iif.style.height = '254px';
        iif.style.overflow = 'hidden';
        iif.style.padding = 0;
        iif.style.width = '300px';
        iif.src = '/adm/ad/injectAd.iframe.html';
        
        var cdiv = document.createElement('div');
        cdiv.style = "width:300px;margin:10px auto;";
        cdiv.appendChild( iif );
        if( b )
        {
            b.insertBefore(cdiv, b.lastChild);
        }
    })();

}


</script>

<style>
#body .adCenterClass {
  margin:0 auto;
  display:block !important;
  overflow:hidden;
  width:100%;
}
#body .adCenterClass #ad_container {
  display:block !important;
  float:left;
  width:728px;
}
@media (min-width: 768px) {
  <!-- For 300px or less ads ONLY -->
  #body .adCenterClass #ad_container {
    width: calc(100% - 372px);
  }
}
@media (min-width: 1110px) {
  <!-- For 728px or less ads -->
  #body .adCenterClass #ad_container {
    width: calc(100% - 372px);
  }
}

</style>

<div style="background:#abe6f6; border-bottom:1px solid #507a87; position:relative; z-index:9999999">

    <div class="adCenterClass">
        <a href="https://www.angelfire.lycos.com/" title="Angelfire.com: build your free website today!" style="display:block; float:left; width:186px; border:0">
          <img src="/adm/ad/angelfire-freeAd.jpg" alt="Site hosted by Angelfire.com: Build your free website today!" style="display:block; border:0" />
        </a>
        <div id="ad_container">
            <script type="text/javascript">document.write(lycos_ad['leaderboard']);</script>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>

<!-- ///////////////////////////////////// -->
<script type="text/javascript">document.write(lycos_ad['slider']);</script>


<div id="lycosFooterAd" style="background:#abe6f6; border-top:1px solid #507a87; clear:both; display:none; position:relative; z-index:9999999">
<div class="adCenterClass" style="display:block!important; overflow:hidden; width:936px;">
	<div id="aflinksholder" style="float:left; width:186px;">
        <a href="https://www.angelfire.lycos.com/" title="Angelfire.com: build your free website today!" style="display:block; border:0">
            <img src="/adm/ad/angelfire-freeAd2.jpg" alt="Site hosted by Angelfire.com: Build your free website today!" style="display:block; border:0" />
        </a>
    </div>
    <iframe id="lycosFooterAdiFrame" style="border:0; display:block; float:left; height:96px; overflow:hidden; padding:0; width:750px"></iframe>
</div>
</div>


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