The Newsletter for Ancient and Medieval Historians and Wargamers.
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We now have a new SAGA website that caters to all the SAGA interests and publications. It is at http://www.saga-publishing.com/ Check it out!
As the AW/MW and RW gaming systems near completion, a light can be seen at the end of the tunnel! Other than the army list work and minor rules clarifications, these systems are either completed or near completion. This has been a long process and the group must be commended for their continued support and help in the development of these rules.
We will continue to keep very active in rules support as well as subsequent work on the scenario and tournament books. In the meantime, we are beginning to put together a new set of rules covering a period of the 19th century, from 1859 to the late 1870's. We call these the Later 19th Century Warfare Rules.
A new discussion group has been formed to facilitate the playtesting and development of this set of rules. Later this week I will have a playtest version of these rules up on the new discussion group under Files. In the meantime, welcome and please write in to let us know what you would like to see in these rules and what we can do to make a better gaming system.
These rules will encompass the period from the Franco-Italian War of 1859 through the ACW, the Maximilian Mexican 'adventure', the Franco-Prussian War and up through the Plains Indian Wars of the late 1870's. They will use the basic format of our other rules systems, but will be period specific to this era.
These will not be a Foundry product, but a SAGA publication in conjunction with a couple of figure manufacturers and distributors. Thus, we can ensure an orderly and timely development phase.
To join, send an email to Later19thWarfarefirstname.lastname@example.org and subscribe to the list.
In the meantime, please keep sending in your rules questions in respect to AW/MW. We are still working on the final tweaking of AW as well as RW and need the input. Bruce Taylor will be getting back to the NapWar rules shortly as well. All told, it should be a very busy and productive year ahead.
It's been mighty quiet here lately, must be everyone is happy with the rules and army lists.... As far as the army lists go, I've finished the MW lists and all my current input is now in Perry's capable hands. The AW lists will be next up on the work bench. One army I'd like to work on is the Aryans. What little information we have on these semi-nomadic Central Asians has them invading Iran and northern India circa 1500 B.C.E. By 900, they had conquered most of the territory they came in contact with. The Indian Vedic hymns preserve bits of their 'oral history', but that's about it. Perry is planning to include quite a number of new AW armies as well in the army lists. The Tactical Supplement looks to be another project that should be done very shortly. This will (hopefully) go into the Foundry edit of MW when (!) it is finally ready to be published. Again, if anyone has anything they'd like to see included, please send it to me. Another long-term project has been a series of three articles for Wargames Illustrated in the U.K. These will introduce MW in the form of a rules introduction using examples and explanations of the rules as well as historical scenarios. I've completed two of these so far, but the time lag between sending a piece in for publication and actually seeing it in print might even rival Foundry! I hope not. One thing I've been meaning to work on but never have the time is a Siege Warfare supplement for both MW and AW. If anyone would care to take this on as a joint venture, please email me. I have a few ideas, but neither the 'fortress' nor the siege machinery to even start on this. Finally, the current version of AW, October 2001 will be up on the list for revision for another three weeks. After that, major decisions have to be made. The rules have been sold to Foundry. Once they ask for the final revised set to be sent in to them, they will be a done deal. So get those cards and emails coming. That's it for tonight. SAGA is finished and should be out by the end of next week.
I wrote the following for the ancmed group in response to a query about different rules philosophies. I thought I'd put in up on our own list for newer members who might like to see where this all started!
"Reading the various emails on the ancmed group re: rules and rules philosophy prompted me to write a brief piece about how our Medieval Warfare rules came about.
I spent many years doing research, in my case it was the early Medieval period, primarily because of my book, Neglected Heroes. After eight years of research, the book was published by Praeger in 1995. At that point in time, I had left ancients wargaming because of personal dissatisfaction with the DBM/WRG style of play. For a short while, I playtested ARMATI, contributing some army lists and a couple of rules to the final product, but tired of that as well.
Working with Steve Phenow, the ACW rules, Mr. Lincoln's War were developed and it was at this point that Bruce Taylor and I began to experiment with writing a set of Medieval rules.
When we started out, we basically knew what we wanted to replicate; small scale Medieval battles. These would be tactical battles, where the figures would represent what they appeared as on the wargames table. This meant a return to armor classes, morale types, weapon factors and a heavy dose of psychology by way of both combat and morale results. Putting all of the research into the rules proved a daunting prospect. Trial and error…and I do mean error…, took us a year of constant playtesting before we felt comfortable enough to take the rules to Historicon in 1997 and put on our first demo game.
MW stresses those aspects of Medieval battle that my book built upon; the often neglected aspects of strong, decisive and tactical leadership, as well as the psychology of warriors in battle. Added to this were the tactical nuances of close combat and missile fire situations. All of the various situations in the game were first tested as to their historical accuracy…as much as we could easily bring into the simulation anyway. As playtesting proceeded, we tried to opt for the 'Simplicity is Best' rules. Certain morale situations had to be left in such as the foot in the open having to test their morale if being charged by non-skirmisher mounted and any troops being attacked by a better armor type…these situations were psychological as much as physical and could not be ignored in our game.
The bottom line, though, came to be playability. The games had to be playable and winnable in a three to three and a half-hour time frame. The results had to make sense historically…could your heavy cavalry charge uphill into thick ranks of long spearmen and win? 95% of the time no, but there had to be a slim chance of it succeeding. Again, we were not playing chess here, we wanted a FUN game that would allow the different players to learn by themselves how difficult it was to command and control their armies, and to learn tactics in the field, by trying them out, as their Medieval counterparts did.
We have been awarded the Origins Award for Best new Historical Miniatures Rules for 1998 and have since that time run tournaments using MW at our three main East Coast game cons. At Historicon in July, we had over twenty players, and at Fall In, we have twenty-two signed up to play both in Ancient Warfare, our new rules set, as well as MW. We must be doing something right!
Playability does not have to be sacrificed to historical accuracy, but you do have to walk a fine line between the two. In the end, I believe that keeping the game easy to learn and to play can be done, while still satisfying me as to its historical purpose, to replicate battlefield behavior and results.
Our rules discussion group can be accessed at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoreAMwar where we have 365 members, free Fast Play rules, all of the army lists for both rules sets, full color markers for play, and much more."
SAGA # 81 is now in the mail. Anyone wishing to subscribe, please do so, still $30.00 per year for six issues.
Historicon 2001 update:We have the following demo games being put on at Historicon later this week: Ancient Warfare - Thursday night, 7:00. Mitch Abrams and Bruce Taylor will put on this 15mm demo game. Medieval Warfare - Friday 12 noon - The Battle of Northallerton, (F-20) Terry Gore, Bruce Taylor, Paul Schneider and Ken Brate will be running this 25mm 'Fast Play Medieval Warfare' game. Medieval Warfare - Friday 4:00 pm - The Battle of Liegnitz, (F-55) this huge 16 player game will use 25mm figures and be presented by David Bonk and Jeff Ball. Medieval Warfare - Friday 6:00 pm - The Battle of Hastings, (F-77) put on by Bob Eldridge and Sylvian Durand. Medieval Warfare - Sunday 10:00 am (tentative) a WoR 25mm game put on by Alex Aimette and Ken Portner. Renaissance Warfare - Thursday night, 7:00. The Deluge (T-20), 25mm put on by Dave Bonk. Renaissance Warfare - Friday 10:00 (F-54) and ECW game run by Jeff Ball. MW Tournament - All day Saturday starting at 9:00 with both a 15mm tournament and a 25mm tournament, sponsored by The Foundry and umpired by Terry Gore, Bruce Taylor and Mitch Abrams sanctioned by NASAMW and held in the Lampeter Room. I have virtually sold out of the MW rules again, only two sets remaining with all the army lists. With no date in sight yet for the Foundry version, I have had another SAGA printing of the rules done up utilizing all the updates/clarifications, etc., but with only 30 of the most popular army lists included...from our most recent revisions. This still runs to 108 pages! There is nothing new in here that isn't included on the July clarification sheet under Files, it's just all included in the appropriate sections. We also sold out of RW last March, so we've reprinted these as well, but they are radically different from the previous set. Jeff has opted to use the easier style of the 'Fast Play' system as the main body of the rules with the advanced rules as options. There are also 50 army lists included. AW has been reprinted as well, but there is no change from the previous edition. We just sold them all out! Anyway, we will have copies of all the rules at Historicon for anyone interested as well as back issues of SAGA.
Lance emailed me today from the Foundry to give me an update on Medieval Warfare. It has been a very slow go, no thanks to me sending in rules clarifications and such! The MW rules will be the first ones out of the block for Foundry and they want to get all the production and publication bugs out...we're the prototype for many more rules sets, including our own AW and RW down the road. The photo shoots are being prepared along with some additional line artwork. I will be receiving some galleys from England so that I have an idea of what the final product will look like. So far, I've only seen rough hand lettered pages for layout. The Foundry staff are eager to include more 'How I use my MW army' articles, so if anyone would like to submit something, please post it to me and I'll send it on. You've seen what these look like. The recent Norman and Saxon articles in SAGA # 79 and the upcoming Burgundian Ordonance and WoR ones in SAGA # 80 are what they are looking for. Time wise, it's looking slim that these will be published in time for Historicon, but I'm still hopeful! Meanwhile, I still have 9 copies of the SAGA edition for anyone interested. As always, I'll keep you updated on the progress of the rules.
Besides the Medieval Warfare 25mm and 15mm tournaments at Historicon on Saturday, we have the following demos scheduled as of May 5, 2001:
1. Dave Bonk will be running a RW game Thursday evening.
2. Mitch Abrams and Bruce Taylor will be putting on an Ancient Warfare demo Thursday evening.
3. Jeff Ball will be running a RW English Civil War game Friday morning.
4. The Battle of the Standards (Horthallerton), Using Medieval Warfare and being run by myself, Ken Brate and Paul Schneider on Friday afternoon.
5. The Battle of Liegnitz, Jeff Ball and Dave Bonk's fantastic MW game Friday evening.
6. Bob Eldridge along with Sylvian Durand will be playing the Battle of Hastings Friday evening using MW.
7. The MW 15mm and 25mm tournaments will run all through Saturday.
8. Peter Hess will be running a RW game Saturday.
9. Alex Aimette and Ken Portner will be doing a MW War of the Roses battle on Sunday.
If more items are planned, I'll keep you updated.
I've also had to have another print run of the SAGA edition of MW published to fulfill orders. These are the 112 page spiral bound sets sold at the last two conventions and include all of the army lists. Email me for details.
We have fourteen players signed up for the 25mm and six for the 15mm Historicon 2001 Medieval Warfare tournaments, so we have room for six more players in either scale. I've tried to keep in touch with all of our 'regular' players, several of whom will not be able to attend Historicon this year, so we do have the room. If you feel that you may be uncomfortable playing, don't! We are a pretty mellow bunch, and I'll put rookies against the rules writers (Bruce, Jeff and myself) so that we can teach you the game as you play. It's really a great way to learn the system. UnfortunateIy, I don't have any additional armies to 'loan out' this time around, as we have figures and terrain for the demo games taking up a lot of room in our van, but anyone who would like to bring an extra army to loan, please let the group know so perhaps someone can get to play who just doesn't have a proper army yet. Besides the tournaments, we have demos of the Battle of the Standards (Horthallerton), being run by myself, Ken Brate and Paul Schneider, Jeff Ball and Dave Bonk's fantastic Liegnitz game both running on Friday, and Mitch Abrams will be putting on an Ancient Warfare demo Thursday evening. Bob Eldridge as well as Alex Aimette may also be running MW demos, more about these as we firm up plans for July. Scott Holder has asked those of us running the Historicon tournaments to provide him with a description of our games, so here is what I sent him: Here is what we have so far: Medieval Warfare Tournament - Saturday, July 21. Three Rounds of 3 1/2 hours each starting at 9:00 a.m. You only need to play in the first two rounds, the third is optional. MW 15mm - being umpired by Mitch Abrams. Table size is 6' x 4'. MW 25mm - being umpired by Terry Gore. Table size is 8' x 5'. Format: Each army is one list only, 525 points total. We are using Priests as well as the Supply Unit rule, though you are not required to purchase either, if you have a tendency to roll poorly (like me) or have a number of missile units in your army, it is advisable to use both. Lists will be drawn from the currently available MW lists, which can be downloaded from our rules discussion site at http://group.yahoo.com/groups/GoreAMwar Groundcloth and the terrain pieces you are going to use along with measuring devices, dice and order markers must be provided by each player. Optional Rules to be used: Priests Supply Units Uncontrolled Mounted Charge (lance-armed cavalry) Fire and Flee (Feigned Flight) Mounted Breakthrough Mounted Fire While Charging (rear ranks) Tournament Scoring: - 1 point for winning the game (enemy army reached breakpoint of 1/3 units lost) - 1 point for each enemy general killed, left the table or in rout at the end of the game - 1 point for having a non-skirmisher unit on the enemy half of the table at game's end (not on ships) - 1 point for each 1-50 enemy points lost The maximum number of victory points that can be awarded is five. For more information, check out our rules group at http://group.yahoo.com/groups/GoreAMwar or email me at email@example.com 2/19/01
It's been a while since I've been able to get into the website because of some password confusion, but all is well once again. SAGA #78 is now out. All paid subscribers should have received their copy by now. Please note that the new subscription price is $30.00 per year.
Also, we are having three tournaments at Cold Wars next month. Alex Aimette is running the MW 'mini' 25mm tournament on Friday, starting at noon while Mitch Abrams is running the 15mm AW on Sat. and I'll be running the 25mm AW. We have prizes and plaques available for the winners, so sign up now!
Our rules discussion group now numbers over 290 members. It's time you joined! Take a minute to go to http://group.yahoo.com/group/GoreAMwar and join us.
We have been put back a bit again by the Foundry. Insofar as I have the final edited rules for both AW and MW finished, I've printed them up in a spiral bound edition. Each has over 100 pages and numerous army lists, examples of play and much more. To order either set, send $25.00 to me and I'll ship them out the next day.
12/18/00 SAGA # 77 is now in the mails. We are also wrapping up the editing of Ancient Warfare. The rules will be going in to the Foundry before the first.
Cold Wars is only a few months away and we have several things planned. First off, Alex Aimette will be running a 25mm MW mini-tournament on Friday. This will match 350 point armies on a 4' x 6' table.
Saturday, Bruce and I will be putting on our AW tournament, 525 points on 5' x 8' tables. Mitch Abrams will be running a 15mm tournament as well.
Jeff Ball will be hosting a Renaissance Warfare tournament! So you can see, plenty to play for.
11/9/00 We are back from Fall In and another great convention it was. Jeff Ball won the 25mm Aw tournament with his Seleucids, Alex Aimette won the 25mm MW tourney with Anglo-Normans and we had Perry Gray and Kevin Boylan tie in the 15mm MW with Perry winning the tie-breaker.
Here are some additions to the latest edit of AW I've put up on the egroups list.
Recent changes/clarifications to Ancient Warfare (through November, 2000) 1. The Strength of a unit has been redefined and clarified. 2. Use of Shields section (pg. 8) has been expanded and clarified. 3. Stand sizes for WRG mounting now includes Small and Medium depths as well as Large. 4. A new section has been added to Organization, dealing with Losses and Stand Removal (pg. 11) 5. Casualties Amongst Generals has been expanded and clarified. The major change is that if the General is with a unit and the unit suffers as casualty lost, you must roll a d6. If you roll a '1', the casualty is the General and he is killed. This would be a good time to have a Priest, I think. 6. Clarified that Light Woods block visibility (you cannot see what's on the other side of them) as well as provide cover from missiles as the canopy would block many shots (pg. 16). 7. Put in some graphics for formations (pg. 17). 8. Clarified how wedges fight (pg. 20). 9. Clarified Flank March arrivals (pg. 21). 10. Added text to each of the Phases in the Sequence of Play (pgs. 23-25). 11. Clarified orders sections (pgs. 26-27). 12. Added section on Countercharges (pg. 29). 13. Clarified Retreat order section (pg. 31). 14. Changed HCh movement to the same as loose order foot (pg. 33-34). 15. Added Chariot and Cavalry runners to Elephant escorts under allowable interpenetrations (pg. 37). 16. Ruled that elephant crews could fire over base-to-base friends in front, but not other elephants (pg. 46). 17. Clarified that a firing unit must roll it's unmodified To Pass morale to fire at close range if being charged (pg. 46). 18. Put in a charge response section, depending on orders (pg. 50). 19. Clarified casualty determination (pg. 51). 20. Put in that mounted chargers take the -d6 roll only vrs. foot Lsp/Pike, not elephants or chariots (pg. 52). 21. Included example of Close Combat (pgs. 53-54).
That's all for the moment.
The latest AW edit is going up on the egroups list this weekend. It is edited extensively and contains many new clarifications and rules additions. Please sign up on the list for a free download.
With Fall In fast approaching, there is plenty to do insofar as getting prepared for the latest tournaments. We will run three this time around. In addition, John martin will be running MW in Atlanta later in November.
We now have over 220 members on our egroups list, the more the merrier!9/20/00
With my daughter's wedding finally over, I can get back to the hobby again. SAGA #76 was mailed out today. Subscribers should be receiving their copies within a day or two. We have also just put another revised edition of AW up on the onelist for free downloading. Added to this is a new QRS as well. These rules have really progressed of late.
We are in the process of updating the database for gamers using our rules. Anyone interested should email me at home. I have a dozen copies of the new MW spiral bound edition left for $25.00 postage paid as well. Send to T.L. Gore, 890 Janes Road, Rochester, NY 14612.
Check out the articles in upcoming issues of MWAN, Slingshot and the Courier on AW/MW. Jeff also has an article in Reiter on RW. We are trying to keep the rules out in front, and any help is appreciated. Buddy Davis is helping us with the technical aspect of rules presentation and look for the AW army lists to be appearing in the familiar 'block' form shortly.
Fakk In is not too far away, so sign up NOW for the tournaments.
I've just put all of the latest AW changes and clarifications up on the egroups list. Next week, I will redo the AW rules booklet and list it under the files section of the egroups list for downloading to members.
We've been playtesting extensively lately, trying to work out all the potential kinks before our Fall In tournament in November. Many interesting developments, but you can only download them from the egroups list (hint, hint). So join today!
SAGA # 76 is being worked on and should be out in three weeks. I will be raising the subscription price with issue number 79. The price will increase to $30.00 per year. Also, I've had to reprint Medieval Warfare. This is the Foundry edit with ALL of the army lists included. Price is $25.00 for 112 pages.
Back from Historicon a couple of weeks ago with plenty of news. The RW booklets have sold out already. Jeff and Peter's demo games were a huge success. I have also posted the latest august version of AW along with all the army lists on the egroups list... GoreAMwarfirstname.lastname@example.org
For Fall In, we are looking at running both sets of rules in both scales IF we have enough interest.So far, 25mm is fine and 15mm for MW is a go. Anyone who might be interested, PLEASE get back to me asap as space is limited.
The winners of the Historicon tournament were: 25mm MW Jeff Hady (Russ). 15mm MW was a tie between Mitch Abrams and his Early Byzantines and John Martin's Mongols.
SAGA 75 is out and anyone who wishes to subscribe should do so now before the price increase goes into effect.
The RW booklets are completed and they look great. We will be running four demo games of them on Saturday at Historicon along with our AW and MW demos. Please note that there are still two 15mm tournament openings on Friday. We will be bringing two 15mm armies for those who would like to play but do not have their own MW armies. Anyone who signs up to play in the tournament will be sent by email a copy of the Foundry edit of MW that I sent in two months ago.
SAGA # 75 will be back from the printer's on Tuesday. Anyone who would like to subscribe better hurry as I will be increasing the subscription price very shortly to cover added printing and mailing costs. This is a very good issue with a very diverse number of articles. Morcar will be putting it up on the SAGA page shortly.
It's been a long two weeks, but we finally have Renaissance Warfare done and going to the printer's. This will be a spiral bound 86 page rules booklet, half of which will be army lists. The cost will be $25.00 postpaid in the U.S., $5.00 more for airmail overseas.
I've completed work on my 25mm Ancient Germans, and they look great. They are a combination of Foundry and Old Glory figures.
SAGA #75 is being worked on and I NEED ARTICLES! Please send me anything you have.
After three battles with the Early Byzantines, they have a 2-1 record...not bad for me! The next army up is for Ancient Warfare...Early Germans. We are re-doing some of the army lists, and this is one of them. What with the interest in Gladiator (the movie) and the opening battle, I am looking forward to completing these guys by Historicon.
We are also actively seeking new army lists from interested persons. For the requirements, email me.
There are now eight of us involved in rules, scenarios and list development here at SAGA. The family is growing as new projects are started and old ones (MW) are finished. Remember, we now take charge cards for SAGA subscriptions and rules.
I'm rapidly completing my 'new' Early Byzantine army. Still several units left to paint, but getting there. These guys fought their first battle Satuday, defeating the army of Mongols sent against them. An auspicious beginning! Belisarius and Narses...how can you go wrong?
The new address for the onelist group is http://www.egroups.com/group/GoreAMwar
AW is proceeding very quickly. The initial 25 army lists are done and the rules editing is going quite smoothly. Received the artwork for MW from the Foundry. It is going to be quite a breathtaking set of rules, very visual and up to the highest standards of publication.
Still time to get into the 15mm Historicon tourney! Email me.
Where to start.... The latest issue of SAGA (Number 74) is being mailed out Monday. This issue features the usual plethora of great articles and reviews, including army list development, a review of Barbarians Within the Gates of Rome, part 2 of the 2nd Punic War, and much more. Time to subscribe or re-subscribe before the price goes up. I haven't had a price increase in years, yet my printing costs continue to rise. I'm going to have to do something, but haven't decided what yet.
The Foundry edition of MW is now in production...and out of my hands once and for all. There are still some SAGA editions left as I just reprinted more in anticipation of the Foundry edition being at least two months away from appearing on the shelves. The SAGA edition has all 94 army lists. The Foundry edition will have 30.
I've been working on getting my Early Byzantines ready for Historicon. So far, I have two units of skutatoi and two cavalry units done. Much more to do, as you can see. I'm really looking forward to the MW torunament this year. We have ten signed up for 25mm and six for 15mm...can use two more 15mm players!
The April issue of SAGA is LATE! Too many things on my plate, but it's about ready to go to the printer's. Take the opportunity to subscribe if you haven't yet.
I'm cancelling the AW tournament at Historicon...only eight signed up for both scales and I needed at least 12. Instead, on Saturday we will be doing demo games starting with RW in the morning, AW in the afternoon and MW at night! An all-day affair.
Also of note is that Perry Gray has taken over the editing of the army lists for AW and MW. We are adding army lists and Perry will check them out before sending them back to me.
Check out the lists on the army lists on the onelist
We are now able to take charge card orders for SAGA publications. It is a simple procedure. Go to www.paypal.com and register. Use Bruce Taylor (SAGA's agent) for the receiver of funds. His email is email@example.com. Once you are signed up, you will be able to order MW, AW, SAGA subscriptions, any of our forthcoming scenario booklets and more over the internet!
Scenario booklets! Jeff Ball and I are working on the Wars of the Roses. This booklet will include thirteen scenarios, full color maps, a brief background of the war and each battle, a painting guide and o.b.'s for each army. there will be both an historical setup as well as an 'open' setup.
Mark Bloom, Jeff and I are also working on The Arthurian Wars booklet, that will include at least 15 battles from the post-Roman period of British history. Same format as WoR. We envision selling these and future booklets either of two ways. You can purchase the 'hard copy' printed version for $20.00 (we pay postage) or an email version for $10.00 (you download it and print it up yourself).
We are also adding an aggression factor the the MW army lists for tournament play. This will allow technologically restricted armies to 'buy' better terrain as they are fighting on friendly soil (usually!) I'll keep you posted on this or join the discussion group at GoreAMwarfirstname.lastname@example.org for more information.
T. L. Gore's Notepad Archive