The Persecution Paradox

[Clay] In the section entitled, “Apostles 95-1000 A.D.”, Nate has attempted to align 2x2's with those early Christians who were persecuted for their faith in history. He seems to be reasoning that the presence or absence of persecution is what determines the true apostolic nature of the faith, saying "this seems to symbolize the TRUE CHURCH as being Driven Underground by PERSECUTIONS". He enlists the aid of Broadbent and McCabe by assuming that those who were persecuted were 2x2 precursors tracing their origins "back to apostolic times" who "never degenerated from the New Testament PATTERN". He writes:

According to the Apostolic Church Fathers/ History. (Persecutions continue on!) Romans Emperors Persecuted Christians:

His efforts are in vain, however, for 3 primary reasons:
1) Broadbent and McCabe think these "primitive New Testament Christians" were Plymouth Brethren and Baptist, respectively, NOT 2x2's!

2) He doesn't ever discuss the actual doctrines of these groups; therefore, he has made unsubstantiated assumptions about these groups' belief systems.

3) Most ironic of all, the Christians "persecuted by Roman Emperors" whom he lists WERE CATHOLIC.

Let us examine now the beliefs of the specific martyrs Nate lists who, according to him, were notable for their "NEVER having degenerated from the New Testament PATTERN as had the Roman, Greek Orthodox, and some others, but having ALWAYS maintained, in varying degree, the Apostolic Traditions. From the time of Constantine the Emperor there had been a SUCCESSION of those who Preached the Gospel and founded the churches, UNINFLUENCED by the relations between the Church and State existing at the time"

[Nate] "Polycarp (A.D. 67- 110). Pupil of John the Apostle ordered by the Emperor to be arrested and brought before the Governor, and it was said of him that when offered would be offered his freedom he would curse Christ, but, he replied "Eighty and six years have I served Christ and He has done me nothing but good: how then could I curse Him, my Lord and Savior?" He was burned alive!"

[Clay] Polycarp was burned alive for holding beliefs that were quite Catholic in nature; for example, he believed in infant baptism (Martyrdom of Polycarp, 9) and he accepted the authority of the Catholic Church:

"[A]ll the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the Catholic Church which is in Smyrna. For every word that went out of his mouth either has been or shall yet be accomplished." (Martyrdom of Polycarp, 16:2)

[Nate] Ignatius (A.D. 67-110). A pupil of John the apostle. The Emperor Trajan, on a visit to Antioch, ordered Ignatius to be arrested. He presided at the trial, and sentenced him to be thrown to the Wild Beasts at Rome. Enroute to Rome, he wrote a letter to the Roman Christians begging them not to try to procure his pardon; that he longed for the HONOR of dying for his Lord, saying, "May the Wild Beasts be eager to rush upon me. If they will be unwilling I will compel them. Come, crowds of wild beasts, come tearing and mangling, wracklings, of bones and hacking of limbs. come, cruel tortures of the DEVIL, only let me ATTAIN unto Christ.

[Clay] Like Polycarp, Ignatius believed in such Catholic distinctives as the Real Presence of Christ in the bread and wine (Epis Smyrnaeans, 7,1), the sacrament of confession (Epis Smyrnaeans, 9) the veneration of the Virgin Mary (Epis Ephesians, 7) and the authority of the Catholic Church:

"Where the bishop is, there let the community be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church' (Epis Smyrnaens 8)

"Be not deceived, my brethren: If anyone follows a maker of schism [i.e., is a schismatic], he does not inherit the kingdom of God; if anyone walks in strange doctrine [i.e., is a heretic], he has no part in the Passion [of Christ]. Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup in the union of his blood; one altar, as there is one bishop, with the presbytery and my fellow servants, the deacons" (Epis Philadelphians 3:3-4:1)

"Indeed, when you submit to the bishop as you would to Jesus Christ, it is clear to me that you are living not in the manner of men but as Jesus Christ, who died for us, that through faith in his death you might escape dying. It is necessary, therefore--and such is your practice that you do nothing without the bishop, and that you be subject also to the presbytery, as to the apostles of Jesus Christ our hope, in whom we shall be found, if we live in him. It is necessary also that the deacons, the dispensers of the mysteries [sacraments] of Jesus Christ, be in every way pleasing to all men. For they are not the deacons of food and drink, but servants of the Church of God. They must therefore guard against blame as against fire" (Epis Trallians 2:1-3)

[Nate] Papias (A.D. 70-155) Another pupil of the Apostle John. He suffered martyrdom at Peg mum, about the same time as Polycarp, Ignatius, Papias, form the connecting link between the apostolic age and later.

[Clay] The great historian Eusebius tells us that Papias submitted to the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church: "Papias [A.D. 120], who is now mentioned by us, affirms that he received the sayings of the Apostles from those who accompanied them, and he moreover asserts that he heard in person Aristion and the presbyter John. Accordingly he mentions them frequently by name, and in his writings gives their Traditions [concerning Jesus]. . . . [There are] other passages of his in which he relates some miraculous deeds, stating that he acquired the knowledge of them from Tradition." (Fragment in Eusebius, Church History 3:39)

[Nate] Justin Martyr (A.D. 100-167) Born at Neapolis, ancient Shechem, about the time John died. Studied philosophy. In youth he saw a good deal of persecution of Christians. He became a convert. He wrote a Defense of Christianity addressed to the Emperor. one of the ablest men of his time. Died a martyr at Rome. Here is Justin Martyr's picture of early Christian worship. "On Sunday a meeting is held of all who live in the cities and villages, and a section is read from the Memoirs of the Apostles and the writings of the Prophets, as long as time permits. When the reading is finished, the elder, gives admonition and exhortation to IMITATE those noble things. After this they all arise and offer a common prayer. At the close of the prayer, as we have before described, BREAD and WINE and THANKS for them according to his ability, and the congregation answers, "Amen". "Quote from early church fathers about the doctrine of the Triune God: Justin says, " The Father of the Universe has a Son, who also, being the first-begotten World of God, is even God".

[Clay] And here is the rest of Justin’s picture of how these “meetings” should go – he believed in infant baptism (First Apology,15:6), the Real Presence of Christ in the bread and wine (First Apology, 66), the veneration of the Virgin Mary (Dialogue with Trypho,100), and the sacrifice of the Mass (Dialogue, 41)

[Nate] Iranaeus (A.D. 130-200). Brought up in Smyrna. Pupil of Polycarp and Papias. Died as a martyr. Here in his reminiscence of Polycarp: "I remember the discourses he delivered to the people, and how he described his relations with John, the apostle, and others who had been with the Lord Jesus, how he recited the sayings of Christ, and the miracles he wrought; how he received his teachings from eyewitnesses who had seen the World of Life, agreeing in every way with the Scripture. Iranaeus taught about Triune God: "God the Creator, who made the heaven and the earth, and all things that are therein... He is the only God, the only Lord, the only Creator... For the Creator of the Word is truly the Word of God: and thus is our Lord, who in the last times was made man.

[Clay] Irenaeus believed in infant baptism (Against Heresies, 2,22:4), the Real Presence of Christ in the bread and wine (AH, IV:18,4), the sacrament of confession (AH 1:13), and the veneration of the Virgin Mary (AH 3:22). He denied the Protestant notion that the Bible is the sole rule of faith (AH 3,1-30), choosing instead to acknowledge the authority of the Catholic Church, saying "But the path of those belonging to the Church circumscribes the whole world, as possessing the sure tradition of the Apostles, and gives unto us to see that the faith of all is one and the same ....And undoubtedly the preaching of the Church is true and steadfast, in which one and the same way of salvation is shown throughout the whole world...For the Church preaches the truth everywhere..." (AH V, 20,1) and he warns against rejected the Church, “and But those who cleave asunder, and separate the unity of the Church, [shall] receive from God the same punishments as Jeroboam did" (AH 4,26:2). Here are some more of his statements that prove that he was Catholic, not 2x2, in theology:

“For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolic tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere." (AH 3:3:2)

"[N]or does it consist in this, that he should again falsely imagine, as being above this [fancied being], a Pleroma at one time supposed to contain thirty, and at another time an innumerable tribe of Aeons, as these teachers who are destitute of truly divine wisdom maintain; while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said." ( AH 1:10,3)

"But [it has, on the other hand, been shown], that the preaching of the Church is everywhere consistent, and continues in an even course, and receives testimony from the prophets, the apostles, and all the disciples--as I have proved--through [those in] the beginning, the middle, and the end, and through the entire dispensation of God, and that well-grounded system which tends to man's salvation, namely, our faith; which, having been received from the Church, we do preserve, and which always, by the Spirit of God, renewing its youth, as if it were some precious deposit in an excellent vessel, causes the vessel itself containing it to renew its youth also. For this gift of God has been entrusted to the Church, as breath was to the first created man, for this purpose, that all the members receiving it may be vivified; and the [means of] communion with Christ has been distributed throughout it, that is, the Holy Spirit, the earnest of incorruption, the means of confirming our faith, and the ladder of ascent to God. 'For in the Church," it is said, "God hath set apostles, prophets, teachers,' and all the other means through which the Spirit works; of which all those are not partakers who do not join themselves to the Church, but defraud themselves of life through their perverse opinions and infamous behaviour. For where the Church is, there is the Spirit of God; and where the Spirit of God is, there is the Church, and every kind of grace; but the Spirit is truth." (AH 3:24)

"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such as volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul-- that church which has the Tradition and the with which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. For with this Church, because if its superior origin, all churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world. And it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the Apostolic Tradition." (AH 3:3:2)

"[The spiritual man] shall also judge those who give rise to schisms, who are destitute of the love of God, and who look to their own special advantage rather than to the unity of the Church; and who for trifling reasons, or any kind of reason which occurs to them, cut in pieces and divide the great and glorious body of Christ, and so far as in them lies, destroy it--men who prate of peace while they give rise to war, and do in truth strain out a gnat, but swallow a camel. For they can bring about no 'Reformation' of enough importance to compensate for the evil arising from their schism. . . . True knowledge is that which consists in the doctrine of the apostles, and the ancient constitution of the Church throughout all the world, and the distinctive manifestation of the body of Christ according to the successions of the bishops, by which they have handed down that Church which exists in every place [i.e., the Catholic Church]" (AH, 4:33:7-8)

[Nate] Clement of Alexandrea (Died about A.D. 215) taught the Triune God saying, " The Word itself, that is, the Son of God, being by equality of substance, one with the Father, is Eternal and Uncreated. And I understand else nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third, is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made.

[Clay] Clement also believed in the Catholic doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the bread and wine (The Instructor of Children, 2), the veneration of the Virgin Mary (Instructor, I:6), and the communion of saints ( Miscellanies 7:12). He denied that the Bible alone is the sole rule of faith (Stromata 1, 11; 7,104) and accepted the authority of the Catholic Church:

"Even here in the Church the gradations of bishops, presbyters, and deacons happen to be imitations, in my opinion, of the angelic glory and of that arrangement which, the Scriptures say, awaits those who have followed in the footsteps of the apostles and who have lived in complete righteousness according to the gospel" (Miscellanies 6:13:107:2)

"And that you may still be more confident, that repenting thus truly there remains for you a sure hope of salvation, listen to a tale? which is not a tale but a narrative, handed down and committed to the custody of memory, about the Apostle John. For when, on the tyrant's death, he returned to Ephesus from the isle of Patmos, he went away, being invited, to the contiguous territories of the nations, here to appoint bishops, there to set in order whole Churches, there to ordain such as were marked out by the Spirit." (Who is the rich man that shall be saved?, 42)

[Nate] Tetullian (Died about A.D. 230) Also taught Triune God saying, "I ask you how it is possible that a Being who is merely and absolutely One in singular, to speak in plural phrase, saying, "Let US make man in OUR own image, and after Our likeness" ... it was because He already had His Son close at His side, as a Second Person, His own Word, and a third Person also, the Spirit in the Word, that He purposely adopted the plural phrase.

[Clay] Tertullian also taught the Real Presence of Christ in the bread and wine (Against Marcion, 40), the sacrament of confession (Modesty, 1), veneration of the Virgin Mary (Flesh of Christ, 17), the sacrament of confirmation (The Resurrection of the Dead 8:2), purgatory (The Soul 35) as well as the pre-eminence of Peter the first pope and the apostolic origins of the Catholic Church:

'Let them show the origins of their churches, let them unroll the list of their bishops,(showing) through a succession coming down from the very beginning that their first bishop had his authority and predecessor someone from among the number of Apostles or apostolic men and, further, that he did not stray from the Apostles. In this way the apostolic churches present their earliest records. The church of Smyrna, for example, records that Polycarp was named by John; the Romans, that Clement was ordained by Peter. In just the same way, the other churches show who were made bishops by the Apostles and who transmitted the apostolic seed to them. Let the heretics invent something like that' (Prescr Ag Heretics 32)

"Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called the rock on which the church should be built,' who also obtained the keys of the kingdom of heaven,' with the power of loosing and binding in heaven and on earth?'...Where was Marcion then, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus then, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those menlived not so long ago,--in the reign of Antoninus for the most part,-- and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity,with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled." (Prescr Ag Heretics, 22,30)

"[T]his is the way in which the apostolic churches transmit their lists: like the church of the Smyrneans , which records that Polycarp was placed there by John, like the church of the Romans, where Clement was ordained by Peter" (Demurrer Against the Heretics 32:2)

[Nate] Hippolytus (Died about A.D. 250) saying, about Triune God. "I do not mean that there are two Gods, but that it is only as light of light, or as water from a fountain, or as a ray from the sun."

[Clay] Hippolytus, like the rest of the Christian martyrs Nate lists, held very Catholic views of the Real Presence of Christ in the bread and wine (Fragment from Commentary on Proverbs), infant baptism (Apostolic Tradition, 21), the sacrament of confession (Apostolic Tradition, 3), the veneration of the Virgin Mary (Treatise on Christ and antiChrist, 4), and the sacrament of confirmation (Apostolic Tradition 21). He, too, rejected the idea that the Bible was the sole rule of faith ( Refutation of All Heresies 1, Preface) as well as affirming the authority of the Catholic Church:

"But we who hope for the Son of God are persecuted and trodden down by those unbelievers. For the wings of the vessels are the churches; and the sea is the world, in which the Church is set, like a ship tossed in the deep, but not destroyed; for she has with her the skilled Pilot, Christ. And she bears in her midst also the trophy (which is erected) over death; for she carries with her the cross of the Lord. For her prow is the east, and her stern is the west, and her hold is the south, and her tillers are the two Testaments; and the ropes that stretch around her are the love of Christ, which binds the Church; and the net which she bears with her is the layer of the regeneration which renews the believing, whence too are these glories. As the wind the Spirit from heaven is present, by whom those who believe are sealed: she has also anchors of iron accompanying her, viz., the holy commandments of Christ Himself, which are strong as iron. She has also mariners on the right and on the left, assessors like the holy angels, by whom the Church is always governed and defended. The ladder in her leading up to the sailyard is an emblem of the passion of Christ, which brings the faithful to the ascent of heaven. And the top-sails aloft upon the yard are the company of prophets, martyrs, and apostles, who have entered into their rest in the kingdom of Christ." (Christ and AntiChrist, 59)

[Nate] Origen (A.D. 185-254) The most learned man of the ancient church. A great traveler; and a voluminous writer, employing at times as many as twenty copyists. Two-thirds of the New Testament is quoted in his writings. He died in Palestine, where he died as a result of imprisonment and torture under Deices Emperor. Also taught Triune God saying, " For who else was He which is to come than Christ? And as no one ought to be offended, seeing God is the Father, that the Savior is also God; So also, since the Father is called Omnipotent, no one ought to be offended that the Son of God is also called Omnipotent. From all which we learn that the person of the Holy Spirit was of such authority and dignity that saving baptism was not complete except by the authority of the most excellent Trinity of them all i.e., by the naming of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

[Clay] Origen was indeed highly influential – he taught the Real Presence of Christ in the bread and wine (Homilies on Numbers 7:2), infant baptism (Homily on Leviticus, 8:3), the sacrament of confession (Homilies on Leviticus, 2:4), veneration of the Virgin Mary (Commentary on Matthew, 10:17), the communion of saints ( Prayer 11) , and the authority and apostolicity of the Catholic Church:

“The Church's preaching has been handed down through an orderly succession from the Apostles and remains in the Church until the present. That alone is to be believed as the truth which in no way departs from ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition" (First Principles 1,2)

"Although there are many who believe that they themselves hold to the teachings of Christ, there are yet some among them who think differently from their predecessors. The teaching of the Church has indeed been handed down through an order of succession from the Apostles and remains in the churches even to the present time. That alone is to be believed as the truth which is in no way at variance with ecclesiastical and Apostolic Tradition" (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:2)

"And Peter, on whom the Church of Christ is built, against which the gates of hell shall not prevail..." (Commentary on John, 5:3)

"If someone from this people wants to be saved, let him come into to this house so that he may be able to attain his salvation . . . Let no one, then, be persuaded otherwise, nor let anyone deceive himself: Outside of this house, that is, outside of the Church, no one is saved; for, if anyone should go out of it, he is guilty of his own death" (Homilies on Joshua 3:5)

For an extended view of the history of Catholic Persecution, click here.