Discussion
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Posted 8:26 p.m.,
December 30, 2003
(#1) -
Lieber Stole Her
There was never a time, let alone a day or hour that R. Stevie Moores was the dominant songwriter of his day.
I'd go for a Kristofferson vs. Dylan analogy here, but jeez, cut Eck a little metaphorical slack...
Posted 8:30 p.m.,
December 30, 2003
(#2) -
Tim Buckley
A dominant songwriter, hmmm....
Posted 8:34 p.m.,
December 30, 2003
(#3) -
Uncle Fokker
What is it about the offseason that predicates all threads spiraling into musical threads? Not that I'm complaining, since I get all sorts of ideas about what music to get at the used cd store down the street from this site.
My favorite songwriter of today? Conor Oberst, aka Bright Eyes.
Posted 8:50 p.m.,
December 30, 2003
(#4) -
Matt Rauseo
I'm unconvinced that Eckersley is a Hall of Famer, please convince me.
Posted 8:58 p.m.,
December 30, 2003
(#5) -
Mariano Rivera
Unconvinced, what about me? 186 ERA+ regular season, and a post-season 0.75 ERA. 8 dominant seasons plus almost 100 rdiculous post-season innings.
Posted 10:00 p.m.,
December 30, 2003
(#6) -
Joey B.
Eckersley did it all
Except get out a one-legged Kirk Gibson. Not that I think it has any bearing on his HOF qualifications, but I couldn't resist.
Posted 10:18 p.m.,
December 30, 2003
(#7) -
Robby Alomar
He didn't get me out when it mattered, either.
Posted 10:26 p.m.,
December 30, 2003
(#8) -
Rick Manning
Ask my wife about what Eckersley did. She'll tell you.
Posted 10:33 p.m.,
December 30, 2003
(#9) -
Voxter
Depending on how you define "songwriter," I could toss out all kinds of dominant names. But in the narrow category of guitar-oriented music, I'd prolly have to go with Stuart Murdoch of Belle & Sebastian.
Posted 10:36 p.m.,
December 30, 2003
(#10) -
Today's youth
The mention of Rick Manning leads me to thoughts of Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich, which leads me to wonder, how the hell is Kekich pronounced? He was before my time, and I don't believe I've ever heard his name spoken.
Posted 11:10 p.m.,
December 30, 2003
(#11) -
Eck, Goose and Bruce
>what appears to be an HOF prejudice against closers.
It's about time MLB let the BBWAA know who they're supposed to vote for. Enough of this level playing field crap.
Posted 11:13 p.m.,
December 30, 2003
(#12) -
Fish Teaser
If we just go with pure lyricist rather than songwriter, I would pick John Prine. And the HOF bias against relievers is justified in the sense that there should be less representation from guys who pitch 60 innings a year than other positions. Eck might be deserving but I'm not really sure. By the way I really dislike people summing up someone's career with 3,000 hits or 400 saves. It would mean more to me to hear 8 200 hit seasons. Guys can hang on and add to career totals long after they are elite players... not that career totals don't mean anything at all.
Posted 12:11 a.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#13) -
Halofan
(homepage)
What Bob Dylan accomplished by bringing serious lyrics into the milieu of pop and rock music was the shattering of the sense that all this music and energy were just bubblegum.
Eckersley changed baseball by PROVING that it cold be reduced to an 8-inning game given the presence of a dominant closer. And unlike Sutter, taking a team to the World Series three times and the division a few othersm.
Posted 12:16 a.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#14) -
jwb
Today's youth: That's pronounced KECK-itch
Posted 12:36 a.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#15) -
severian
(homepage)
Holy f'in crap, I never expected to see an R. Stevie Moore reference here. Actually, I never expect to see them anywhere at all.
One of the true greats, IMO, especially from '77 to '86, when he churned out dozens of cassettes loaded with amazing song after amazing song. Stevie now offers the whole catalog on CD-Rs, so why not go to his website (see homepage) and help yourself to Swing and a Miss, The North, R. Stevie Moore Is Worth It, or any number of other goodies.
Posted 12:43 a.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#16) -
Varuna
(homepage)
Posted 10:33 p.m., December 30, 2003 (#9) - Voxter
Depending on how you define "songwriter," I could toss out all kinds of dominant names. But in the narrow category of guitar-oriented music, I'd prolly have to go with Stuart Murdoch of Belle & Sebastian.
Ah, nice coincidence, I'm listening to Dear Catastrophe Waitress now...
Posted 12:46 a.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#17) -
Repoz
(e-mail)
severian....I got to know R. Stevie when he was pooching records out of a Sam Goody store and then he turned up basically living in the back room at Maxwells in Bohoken. I remember him penning lyrics in the foam from a fire extinguisher than we would cover the floor with.
I never throw the word genius around and I'm not going to do it here...but what a friggin genius!
Posted 1:32 a.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#18) -
cfb
Eckersley changed baseball by PROVING that it cold be reduced to an 8-inning game given the presence of a dominant closer. And unlike Sutter, taking a team to the World Series three times and the division a few othersm.
that is part of the reason I think that voting for a reliever for MVP is justified. Even in games that the reliever doesn't pitch he affects the strategy that the opposing manager may employ because he knows it's over after the 8th, and even affects the strategy that his own manager may employ...if you are winning by one run in the bottom of the 8th, and you have an Eck in the bullpen, you may just decide to go for that hit and run or steal, knowing that even if you get the out it won't matter your guy has the game locked down, and if something good happens, well that is even better.
(of course I'm weird I'm not a fan of voting relievers for cy, or starters for mvp. I know that starters are eligible for the award, and that there could be some deserving candidate that are starters, but I think I put a small punishment on starters when looking at MVP picks...not that I get a vote or anything anyway)
Posted 9:14 a.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#19) -
William Wilson
Why, when talking about "songwriters," do people always leave out folks like Ned Rorem? His songs are stunning (and for this purpose I'm setting aside his big orchestral compositions). Okay, so they're sung by "classical singers" most of the time - but they're musically intricate, gorgeous, and lyrically great. (Admittedly he often sets poems, but even so...)
And then what about William Bolcom, who writes (and performs) great cabaret songs?
Do we only consider pop musicians to be "songwriters"? If so, how sad.
Posted 9:50 a.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#20) -
Ken E. Bunkport
Matt-
I think the argument goes something like this:
1. Eckersley was an incredibly dominant reliever over a period of 5-6 years. It was probably one of the greatest peaks for a reliever ever, and his best year (1990, when he posted an ERA of 0.65, which equates to an ERA+ of 606) may be the best year ever by a reliever.
2. While Eckersley wasn't dominant as a reliever for an extended period of time, he had a prior career as a pretty good starter. He won an average of 15 games per year during his first five years in the bigs, and posted some impressive ERA+ numbers during that time (146 as a 20-year-old rookie, 138 as a 20-game-winner at age 23, 149 at age 24). Even after that early peak, he was a fairly reliable starter; furthermore, because of his time as a starter, his career IP numbers don't look ridiculous (he had 3285.7, compared to 1042.3 by Sutter).
3. During his career, Eck allowed 204 fewer earned runs than a league-average pitcher (that's adjusting for league and park, and breaks down to 110 fewer earned runs allowed during his years as a starter, and 94 fewer earned runs allowed during his years as a reliever). That 204 number compares favorably with lower-level (to my mind) HOFers like Vic Willis and Joe McGinnity. If you believe, as many do, that earned runs "saved" as a reliever are more valuable than earned runs saved as a starter, you may give Eck some extra credit here.
Posted 10:12 a.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#21) -
r. stevie moore vs. jandek
(e-mail)
(homepage)
Put me in, coach. I'm ready to play Totie Fields.
Posted 10:12 a.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#22) -
r. stevie moore vs. jandek
(e-mail)
(homepage)
Put me in, coach. I'm ready to play Totie Fields.
Posted 10:34 a.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#23) -
Max
MLB: Eckersley did it all
Is he talking about drugs?
Posted 2:17 p.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#24) -
Homeboy
"That's why Eckersley -- the inimitably colorful character known as "The Eck"..."
In Fremont, he was just "Eck."
Posted 2:58 p.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#25) -
RMc's Burdensome Anonymity
(homepage)
R. Stevie Moore. The only man I'm afraid to meet.
"I Love You Too Much To Bother You"
"All Fall Long"
"Part Of The Problem"
"Topic Of Same"
"Don't Let Me Go To The Dogs"
"Dates"
"The Whereabouts"
"Debbie"
"Wayne Wayne (Go Away)"
"Shakin' In The Sixties"
"Alecia"
"Norway"
covers of "Cover Of The Rolling Stone", "Diary" and "Who Killed Davey Moore?"
Damn. Check the homepage. Now.
Posted 6:05 p.m.,
December 31, 2003
(#26) -
Joe Oliver
I owned him also
Posted 1:10 p.m.,
January 1, 2004
(#27) -
R. Stevie Moore
I played Little League for several years in Madison Tenn, circa early 60s. Was a foockin great first baseman, solid hitter and yearbook vendor. That is, until one evening, stretching to catch said ball thrown from shortstop after said grounder, the goddam runner knee'd my inner thigh, on purpose. Writhing in preteen legpain, my father Bob Moore caught it all on super 8, but I've never been able to unearth the legendary footage. Tony LaRussa said to check eBay. Alas, my Triple A prospects were snuffed out in that one defining moment long ago. I sold my bat and glove, and got my first guitarbaby. And the rest is faux history.
[Note: THIS IS A MIRROR PAGE OF THE ORIGINAL. LEAVE IT ALONE.]
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