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Friday, 23 September 2005



In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger(s).


Pages: (1-2 introduction, numbers of pages according to Word, Verdana, size 8)

3-22 QURAN AND SCIENCE, WHAT KIND OF GOD CREATED "SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST" (p.21-22 “deserts green”/”Islamic manifest”)?
17-22 GEOLOGY / PROPHECY (f.ex. flood of Noah in Koran+ Alexander the Great + Mongols, “Gog and Magog”)
25 ENDING OF SCIENCE-SECTION (about 72 prophecies from Judgment Day, and proof that Bible told more different nations than just Jews have got prophets)

26-27 JESUS PROPHESIES ISLAM AND TOLD ABOUT “PEOPLE OF THE BOOK”-RELIGIONS AND TIME AND ORDER OF THOSE: (Luke.5:36-39, why new religion is necessary instead of change of old religions
+Luke.13:6-9, one "year" in prophecy is 600 years from Abraham to Islam=4 "years" 2400 years, 3 "years" before Jesus and 1 "year" from Jesus to Islam=600 years, when "tree of Judaism", and with it sects of Judaism, Jesus and so Christianity, is cut down by Allah with "gardener" Jesus from way of Islam,
+Matt.20:1-16, one "hour" is 200 years, "first hour" is Abraham, Jacob and Jews 1800-1700 BC, "third hour" is Sabians 1200-1100 BC, "sixth hour" is beginning of prophecies about Messiah 600 BC and "ninth hour" is Jesus coming 1 AC, "eleventh hour" is Islam 500-700 AC [After Christ] ).

28-30 ISAIAH PROPHESIES CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM (Isa.7:5-6,13-17 earthquake killing 250 000 people in Christian Syria 526 AC+Islam Isa.9:1-6)

31-?? (?=final translation) “APOSTLE” PAUL, SATAN ("BEAST IN LAMBS CLOTHES") HIMSELF! Compare Matt.24:23 and 24:26 how Jesus warned about Paul’s "revelation of Jesus" in road to Damascus and in prison as mark of false messiah and false prophet, compare Matt.24:24 to 2.Corinth.12:12, where Paul himself used same words to describe himself as Jesus used to describe false prophets and false messiahs. (p.??-?? Paul, warning to Muslims),


??-?? WORLD/ HISTORY/ ISLAM WITHOUT CHRISTIANITY? (end of p.?? about woman’s rights)



?? CRUCIFIXION, ILLUSION? (compare Luke 24:30-31 to Matt.12:38-40, Deut.13:5/21:22-23 ,Hosea 6:6,Matt.12:7,Matt.9:13, and Matt.7:7-11, Luke.11:9-13, Matt.26:39, and Luke.20:36-37,Luke.24:38-39 to Koran 4:157)

Best proof on behalf of Islam will be that “god-Jesus” or “Messiah” for Jews will not appear before year 2028, as Bible and Torah prophesied to happen for that generation (80 years in Bible) that SAW (can child see it?) foundation of Israel, it is on Matt.24:32-34, and it can only mean that one generation, not Jews generally, as only they were to witness birth of Israel that is described as fig tree (metaphor about Israel) putting forth its leaves in the parable. Muslims have to spread this information, as those who help others have heart of a prophet. Then we will see that Bible is corrupted or that Jesus came as Muslim, so Muslims can let time and Allah to prove their religion, there is no reason to kill because of it:

41:53 “Soon will We show them our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?”

Although Jesus might seem like for non-Muslims "unsuccessful" prophet of Islam (which he was not, more of that on page ??), shall we never forget that everything we have now has been given to us through him (very important for Islam/Koran also). Let us think more deeply of his position and role in the world, Jesus also came for Muslims. So lets think world as a whole, what was meaning of Jesus, can actions of God be seen in the world? Was earthquake and tsunami (26.12.2004) just unfortunate "accident" after “birthday of Jesus” for God, or might it have something to do with fact that every countries suffering damage had (have had recently) either Muslims fighting with each others (Sumatra, Somalia) or others fighting against Muslims (India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Myanmar)?

Luk.9:84 "...Whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me..."

22:17 "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for Allah is witness of all things."

4:159 "And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-"

Prophet Mohammed (peace upon him) said that reason, intellectuality, is one of the greatest gifts given to us, so let’s use that gift. At the same time we shall get to know better Islam and its view to prophet Jesus. In Islam is teaching about how you should choose your religion, through proofs (like science/Koran and history/Bible), NOT through "feeling", "ritual", "experience", "revelation" or any other (religious) extremism, because how could then we know which one of religions is right one (when for example Hindus and Christians both declare that with these "proofs", did God want us to guess?)? Is it not certain that at least some of these (all) are in great error, or can all of them be correct? As long as your faith is not based on evidence, it is on constant defending-position, and that is when biggest risk to lose it is near, so that is why Muslims (and Koran) give more weight for learning and knowledge (in fact orders into it, and so on to study everything connected to those from our world) instead of searching for ("supernatural") experiences, cause humans are grown (ordered by Allah’s) environment and society, destiny that can not be avoided, only changed to better. According to Islam, Allah orders where we are going to be born and raised, right place just for us, as according to Koran for some Allah gives their reward in this world, for some in next, and that was what Jesus said, that some get their part in this world, some in next (two parallels about “rich man”, salvation for him as hard as for camel going through eye of a needle, and rich man in hell who got his part in this world, “rich man” describes generally rich western countries who has over 80% of wealth in world and even quite easy and beautiful nature around). Allah does not need our prayers, but we do, what you can notice from physiological and physical pleasure and peacefulness, when religion has done what it should do (in prayer). Islam does not concentrate on soul (although it is mentioned, might be same way of describing our most inner self, what we really are now and in hereafter, like when talking about "heart"), but to new creation, that we and our brains shall be created again from nothing (in other dimension?) as we were created before, from nothing, and that for example in hell it will be our body, and especially skin burning and created again time after time, (not flesh, skin has almost all of our receptors for sensing, founded out only recently), not “soul”. So meaning of brains is important, religiousness and "after death experiences" (perhaps been described in Islam as possible later test after death or satans plots before death) are all from brains. So Islam (and other religions) is "Opium to the people", not from man, but from God, He directs by it (also) us like apes. God does not put to hell from bad guess, but from abandoning (prophets who brought) evidences.

4:78-79 YUSUFALI: "Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" If some good befalls them, they say, "This is from Allah"; but if evil, they say, "This is from thee" (O Prophet). Say: "All things are from Allah." But what hath come to these people, that they fail to understand a single fact? Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah; but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. And We have sent thee as a messenger to (instruct) mankind. And enough is Allah for a witness."

We just should accept God as He is, and not to try make Him like us, like humans.

As Islam is test for non-Muslims (to accept it and have "clear table" again with old sins forgiven), it is also test for Muslims (to follow it right and NOT forsake it), Islam is not responsible if Muslims do not follow their religion, like in case of hurting innocents and their property which prophet forbade strictly even in the case of war, or in the case that according to Islam it is not allowed to start a war without clear aggression from enemy, and when peace according to Islam have to be always done by fair terms offered. Prophet (puh) said: "whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years", murder according to prophet is listed as second on major sins, after Muslims worshipping other than Allah. Even equal democracy was introduced in Islam, when both men and women voted for first caliph after death of prophet. Tolerance is most important, Muslim can not cut a tree without permission in non-Muslim areas. Even Islam now needs Israel, assimilation of Jews were high on Europe and America, in hundreds of years would be difficult to explain for Asians and Americans what "Jew" and their teachings means in Koran. Of course Israel have to admit Muslims full rights and citizenship, possibility to move live there as Islamic area shaped like a bird or an angel has in the world always offered last refugee for Jews and Christians, even for Chinese before communism as economic prosperity in Malaysia, as ordered to allow them to come in Koran 9:6. Freedom, tolerance and not being judgmental is important, because what Allah has not given, one can not be expected to act so), there is lot of problems with Muslims not knowing or following their religion, as there is problem with numerous "scholars" teaching with great contradiction against others and basics of Islamic teachings, even claiming that they only know what some parts of Islamic faith (Koran/hadiths) means. Answer to this could be helping people learn to read, so that they would be (instead of some few scholars) those that are mentioned as "people with (more) knowledge”.

Islamic countries have been like testing grounds for different things, like for wars between different religions, imperialism and court based punishments (with demand of witnesses and professional judges). But where is pain, is also gain: Africans are 50% Muslims (Asians 33%), and refugees from Muslim-countries spread Islam to non-Muslim areas as far as Finland, and non-Muslims have moved also to countries with lots of Muslims (f.ex. Nigeria, Kenya, Tanzania, Sudan), in that kind of environment religion is on mind a lot and change of religion is not that difficult, and some will later bringing back home Islam. Even (dry periods of) Sahel drive Muslims more south. Islam has reached every country (/land area with/of some state), with internet light of Islam has reached finally rest of the world (after entering every country in Asia and Africa), but it has reached countries also through difficulties, like South- and North-America (+Caribbean) in slavery of few African Muslims and Cuba with Guantanamo-base of USA (it has been part of Cuba, and Latinos are from Spain). So we shall see the evidence. Koran suggest to search, study and get knowledge. So instead of putting birth of everything to credits of caused by only for example gravity, matter (its behavior and properties), movement of continental plates and evolution (mutation) SOLELY, can’t we see behind them remembering who has created and caused those all (inevitable consequence from creation of God almighty, all knowing), and with those laws directed (all happening and) development so that result is now we humans for example, who now with intellectual consciousness search space that has no intellectuality but gave our birth. Science, evolution-theory and darwinism (with yet unexplained great leaps in evolution) then does not prove against Islam (or Koran with beautiful descriptions, over 750 going like science told, also covering evolution-theory), but just told us how (by what way/ what means and tools) Allah could have created world (f.ex. with laws of nature), so it is only search for His "Fingerprints". It does not matter if it looks like from human perspective predictable or randomly formed creation, when even random things have their own reasonable form, behavior and construct (what you can see from stability of universe for example, we are still here) and only Allah can know what is happening and why, where forming of energy ties in to place and time, necessity that one could notice when going back in time, because even if you could see to the future and try to change it, then change would become that real path of the future, what was affected by possibility of alternative future. Jesus gave us that kind of change(p.??).

Besides text below, About evolution more shortly in these links too:



Allah creates WHAT He wills and HOW He ever wills. Good example from this all is "Adam and Eve", because DNA-tested people all over the world have conformed that we all humans have common ancestors (at least same mother according to tests, “Hawwa” is translated as “original mother” from Quran, there had to be male too), as far as 200 000 years. It does not matter how they came here (like for example from leap of evolution, in Koran might be advice to think other earlier [and those lived with us] human-like also, were they humans or not, in fact it is said in 6:133 that we have been raised from "posterity of other people", 3:59 says that "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: “Be”. And he was", which can only mean that similitude is on both coming from womb they were created without [HUMAN!] father, as in 16:40 is said that Allah created ALL by word “Be” too, “Be” is not quick necessarily, Jesus grew slowly in womb) when Koran renounces that humankind, so Adam especially, was created from water, clay (/ground/dust f.ex. in 23:12) and semen. Allah said that mankind has been created from single “soul”/”person” (4:1/39:6), but that person could be not only Adam (Adam is not mentioned there), but earlier human-like relative from who’s sperm (body of) Adam (and also Hawwa?) were created, if they had at least one common parent from earlier human-like (and prophet, pbuh, mentioned creation from "male" and "female", that can also mean both ways).

How this could be fitted together but by evolution starting in and from water (sea), leading to semen that grow from eating food (86:6-7 “between” = stomach), grown from ground, then from there to womb that semen requires? In fact it can not mean anything else, as 37:11 is speaking about all humans created from ground in general level, not just about Adam, and he has not been excluded from parts of Koran where mankind has been created by semen (/sperm-drop, “nutfah”), in fact it can be ONLY about Adam if in the future humans are cloned from cell, other than sperm-drop (although cell can be seen as "semen" as well).

So we can connect this development also to other species living before, turning to "ashes" even then, coming building blocks for us too, and Allah says in Koran that He created those also from water (f.ex.21:30) like "all living things" on earth (evolution started from water, in all living water is important and in searching for life in space water is priority), which continued on land as same family coming from water. So Adam is most accurately described to be created from water, the ground and from semen, animals overall from water (=by evolution) as scale is larger, and biggest scale of opportunities for creation is when “jinns” (other than human/animals) are said to be created from “fire without smoke”, from (early died and exploded) stars (producing material for everything) as in space fire has no smoke due to lack of oxygen. In Koran Allah says that He created EVERYTHING (even not living) as pairs (pair-like structure of atoms, matter/anti-matter). In Koran might be advice to think other earlier (and those lived with us) human-like also, were they humans or not, in fact it is said in 6:133 that we have been raised from "posterity of other people".

Scholars were not wrong as according to hadith they said that Allah "shaped with His hands" humans from BOTH water and ground, as we have been shaped from fish to reptile, then from four legs to two legs, to our molt nowadays. Koran only mentions Adam as first VICEGERENT on earth, there is no denying that same kind of species could exist on other planets, or that other kinds of earlier human-like species were created earlier on earth (who were not "vicegerent", maybe because they were unable to be it due lack of some properties like higher intelligent). 38:72 says that when Allah created Adam He “breathed” His spirit into him (notice that according 2:34 immediate command to bow down after that happened only after Adam was told name of things, so maybe his spirit was created before he came to body in earth, explaining how according to Bible Jesus said he was before Abraham was on earth) , which can be seen as one thing making difference between modern humans and earlier humans/animals, maybe it is mostly capability to believe in Allah that was given to first modern human coming from womb of earlier human (in leap of evolution).

17:99 "See they not that Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth, is able to create the like of them. And He has decreed for them an appointed term, whereof there is no doubt. But the unjust refuse but disbelief."

Neanderthal-human disappeared suddenly from Europe when humans came (Neanderthals=Romans=Christians?). Koran even have parts where is given information about past and still on going evolution, creation of Allah, that is not finished yet according to Koran (that we can see by science):

29:19-20 "See they not how Allah originates the creation, THEN REPEATS IT. Verily, that is easy for Allah. Say: ´Travel in the land and see how Allah originated the creation: SO WILL ALLAH PRODUCE A LATER CREATION: for Allah has power over all things." (Notice that Darwin did exactly this, traveled in land and studied how creation could be in future)

24:45 "Allah has created every animal from WATER: of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. Allah CREATES WHAT HE WILLS; for verily Allah is able to do all things."

25:54 "It is He Who has created man (/mankind) from WATER: then has He established relationship of lineage and marriage: for thy Lord has power (over all things)."

76:1 "Has there not been over man (/mankind) a long period of time, when he was nothing (even) mentioned?"



(Remember, all this is eventually interpretation, Allah knows best)

In western (Christian) societies has been long war between science and religion. This same battle has not affected Islamic world, because science is viewed to be able only to tell about how Allah created world, and what meanings shorter descriptions in Koran had. And science explains Koran well, Koran is full of miraculous, modern science confirmed knowledge. And Koran has not changed in test of time, it has been made sure by fact that thousands and millions of Muslims from time of prophet until now have memorized Koran with 100% accuracy even from part of its sound, rhythm, melody and dialect (of Arabic’s, even breathing techniques) as Mohammed said it, so any changes would have been noticed right away widely and we would now know about bloody revolts after that (and spread of Islam and Muslims were so dramatic that there was no way to change all Korans without original text surviving it). Allah promises in the Koran that He makes remembering Koran easy, and it has been proved by numerous Muslims. Shortly after death of prophet Koran were added vocal signs for pronouncing Koran exactly like Mohammed did, because Arabs spread from Arabia to wide area very fast and their dialect started to change. First editions of this first official Koran are still with us in Istanbul and Tashkent (recitations of Mohammed were stored originally for example in animal skins, stone tables and by memorization as Arabs had long traditions for that), and Koran (in Arabic’s) is even now exactly same everywhere in the world.

In the Bible "forbidden tree" of Paradise was seen as tree of knowledge, so Europe fought for centuries should knowledge coming from Muslims be approvable, when backwards Arabs started to flourish in culture, trade and science after accepting Islam, as Islam emphasized knowledge and learning. Koran is not book of natural science, but still it has over 750 places which have connection for different scientific phenomenon. Koran and hadiths of prophet advices (both woman’s and man) to education and learning, searching (world of Allah), studies (in school) and teaching others, according to Islam everything, including culture and religion (of your children’s), is based on "brainwashing"=education. So Islam and Muslims saved science, learning and freedom (of academics f.ex., Muslims were first to separate "state and church" when caliphs were given power in earthly matters only, and religious power to scholars) after Europeans abandoned it and heritage of ancient Greece, and practically all we have now is because of Muslims, even renaissance started after Europe began to be interested from ancient heritage and learn about it trough (stored by Muslims in) Arabic writings from areas of Sicily and Spain (where Muslims were greeted as liberators from dictatorial church, and then later expelled).

Posted by moon2/koran at 3:51 PM EEST
Updated: Thursday, 16 February 2006 2:51 PM EET
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Topic: 2: ASTRONOMY 1
ASTRONOMY: (Allah knows best)

Besides text below, About evolution more shortly in these links too:



Let us start with age of universe in Koran:
22:47 "And surely a day with your Lord is as a thousand years of what you number."

Meaning that a Day with Allah is 1000 years for us in our reckoning in relation with the revolution of the Moon around the Earth ( it is the Hegire year) or the revolution of the Earth around the Sun ( Gregorian year).

70:4 "To Him ascend the Angels and the Spirit in a day the measure of which is fifty thousand years."

In this verse of the Sura 'The way of Ascent' ( it is the Way which take the Angels from the Earth to the Heaven after having executed the duties necessary for the Life of our Planet and the Cosmos). We can note that Allah doesn't say "fifty thousand years of what you number" because the day in question in this verse is a time measure of a Gods day (which each day is 1000 years in our reckoning) and this day is the age of the Universe which all events of our life from heaven to earth ascend to Him.

Let's convert these God's Years in our norms :
50,000 * 365.2422 (days in human year) = 18,262,110 Allah's Days. One Day by Allah is corresponding 1000 years of our reckoning, therefore the Age of the Universe is :
18,262,110 * 1,000 = 18,262,110,000 years, that's to say that the age of the Universe is around 18, 1/4 Billions years (calculated with moon-year it is less). After more than 14 centuries, Science and particularly Professor Jean-Claude Batelere of the "College de France" states that it is now a certitude that the Universe is 18 billions years old. Note that others secrets are hidden in these two verses, and note this is only interpretation, not statement of Allah.

21:30 "Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece (/as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder (/then We parted them)? We made from water every living thing, Will they not then believe?"

This passage not only just describe "Big Bang" (common origin of earth and heaven) and beginning of evolution from water, as Allah said that He created us from soil of the earth, from which our food, origin for semen and growth is, that soil has formed from died animals and plants originated from water.
And Adam is according to Koran created from water, clay (/ground/dust) and by semen (=from womb, it could be only Adam and beginning of humans, past form “CREATED”, as clones would not be from sperm, although “semen” can mean cloned cell), how this could be fitted together but by evolution starting in and from water (seas), leading to semen (“nutfah”) that grow from food in stomach (between “ribs and backbone” 86:6), grown from ground, then from there to womb that semen requires? More accurately about evolution and Qur´an in "HUMAN DEVELOPEMENT"-link.
Also "heavens" and earth can be seen as being said to be separately "joined together", and continental-plates have parted from Pangaea-continent for example (we can see it in continents fitting together like in a jigsaw). According to latest theory "Big Bang" was created from crash of (out of our known borders) two other "embryonic" stage seeds of heavens, which came together and then formed two (or more) universes/dimensions (or two or more on different/same "levels", according to Koran stars are in lowest heaven=other universes same level/with laws of nature as ours). “Together” it were also in stars (fog)/asteroids.


Interesting is also part that told about creation of "all living things from water", because elsewhere in the Koran (36:36, 43:12, 51:49) Allah says He created (notice, in PAST form) EVERYTHING (means also other than living) as "pairs", I think it is telling about pair-like structure of an atom, and matter/antimatter kind of double standards. “Everything living from water” may be one of those direct messages for Mohammed and people of his time (“unbelievers” mentioned), meaning everything living that they can see on earth (“earth” was mentioned), as we now know that all living in this planet has come from water (life on other planets may be different thing, as we did not have to know about it back then). Koran is at the same time revelation partly for people (and Mohammed especially) of that time, also scientifically correct for people until this day, and all between. All of Koran is not mainly for people of this time, as many advices were given considering only situation of that time (as for example fighting against Arabic-pagans), but it still considers us also through knowing and understanding history. But if not speaking only about earth, it is probably that this same evolution is happening also in other planets, not just on earth as described here:

3:59 "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was."
”16:40 For to anything which We have willed, We but say the word, `Be´, and it is.”
6:133 "Thy Lord is self-sufficient, full of Mercy: if it were His will, He could destroy you, and in your place appoint whom He will as your successors, even as He raised you up from the posterity of other people."

If Jesus was created by "Be" to womb of her mother (possibly using seed made by Allah, as by some mechanism from some state Jesus grow in it normally as others), then could be that Adam had mother (from earlier "human"-species/other planet)? “Similitude” can only mean that, as Allah has created everything else also by word “Be”, so only reason for mentioning it can only be evolution really, as both were created without (human) father, in fact 38:72 says that when Allah created Adam He “breathed” His spirit into him (notice that according to 2:34 immediate command to bow down after that “breathing” in 38:72 happened only after Adam was told name of things, so maybe his spirit was created before he came to earth into human body, explaining how according to Bible Jesus said he was before Abraham was on earth, “go ye down!” could describe expulsion of spirits of Adam/Hawwa from paradise to body on earth in womb or after womb), which can be seen as one thing making difference between modern humans and earlier humans/animals, maybe it is mostly capability to believe in Allah that was given to first modern human coming from womb of earlier human (in leap of evolution).
Allah said that mankind has been created from single “soul”/”person” (4:1/39:6), but that person could be not only Adam (Adam is not mentioned there), but earlier human-like relative from who’s sperm (body of) Adam and/or Hawwa (Eve) were created by leap of evolution, or then “single soul” was their mother/father (even femine-form of arabics is used in creation, Hawwa is not from ribs of Adam in Quran), or it refers to Adam/Hawwa and to their parents BOTH, or then Adam and that same mother got children, Hawwa (before body of Adam received its spirit from paradise, Allah knew about expulsion before).
In fact it is said that we have been "raised from posterity of other people" in 6:133. These words combined with parts saying that mankind was created from both "WATER" (25:54, through evolution starting from water, also animals are created from water in 24:45) and "GROUND" of the earth (23:12, through that all we are has grown from what we eat, that has its origin in the ground even through animals eating from there, even our/other animals sperm, in fact it can not mean anything else, as 37:11 is speaking about all humans created from clay in general level, not just about Adam, and even parts mentioning creation of man from semen, “nuftah”, does not exclude Adam from that, in fact cloned humans might not be from sperm, even though cell could be “semen”, and so creation from semen could describe beginning of mankind, evolution), will tell about evolution, how Allah created us, otherwise it would contradict each others (water/clay/semen?) and science. I think this all fine and easy but complete description about evolution is more easier to understand through description about "jinns" (aliens), who were created from FIRE FREE OF SMOKE, and what that might have meant (that their material came from stars that died), and how more general description it needed as scale for (amount of) them is larger, as even animals in Koran is only said to be created from water (not from ground or by semen from it as humans, as some animals are not), from evolution.

This is not how scholars have fit these parts together, and this theory will be refused by many, but while Muslims gave the utmost respect for those individuals, we do not consider them to be free from error. They were human beings and did not have the scientific knowledge to understand the Quran correctly and so used whatever theories were around at that time to interpret the Quran. Now that we know they were wrong, we can safely reject their interpretations and use the scientific knowledge at our disposal to interpret the Quran. Actually they were not wrong as according to hadith they said that Allah "shaped with His hands" humans from BOTH water and ground, as we truly have been shaped from fish to reptile, then from four legs to two legs, etc. The Quran’s claim to being a perfect revelation is not in the least affected by imperfect interpretations of it by mortal human beings, varying different times as knowledge increases. Once even sun was thought to travel around earth, but now we know that sun travels around center of our galaxy, from where this "traveling/swimming/floating" in Koran is. We also have to remember that when in hadiths or in Koran is said that Allah "shaped" us from these earlier mentioned elements, it can not be taken too literally as many other parts in Koran neither (which was understood by everyone in those times even), but as describing creation powers of Allah, as "sent down water from the skies" hints for the clouds (tools for Allah’s actions), not into space. Time or way it took place is not relevant.

Although "created from ground of the earth" probably means that we are what we eat, it can also be fitted into other part of evolution (which would still not contradict with creation from water, as it had important part in beginning of life and life rising from there to earth):

Although "created from ground of the earth" probably means that we are what we eat, it can also be fitted into other part of evolution (which would still not contradict with creation from water, as it had important part in beginning of life and life rising from there to earth): Clay's matchmaking could have sparked life/19:00 23 October 2003, news service, Philip Cohen:Two of the crucial components for the origin of life - genetic material and cell membranes – could have been introduced to one another by a lump of clay, new experiments have shown. The study of montmorillonite clay, by Martin Hanczyc, Shelly Fujikawa and Jack Szostak at the Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, revealed it can sharply accelerate the formation of membranous fluid-filled sacs.


17:49-52 "They say: "What! when we are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?". Say: "(Nay!) be ye ROCKS or IRON, "Or created matter which, in your minds, is hardest (to be raised up),- (Yet shall ye be raised up)!" then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say, "When will that be?" Say, "May be it will be quite soon!
"It will be on a Day when He will call you, and ye will answer (His call) with (words of) His praise, and ye will think that ye tarried but a little while."

We all know what kind of rocks fossils are, but also iron is our future, all our atoms will turn to iron in long time.

Both earth and heavens had their own six periods ("days" could be false translation) of creation, here is phases for creation of the heavens (in parts below explaining how you can notice this difference in Koran, point is that there is no dots in Arabic Koran, and we can not know where there should be, it can be only way to explain “eight” days in 41:9-12).

This was one possible meaning for these six "days"/"periods of time" in creation of universe:

1."Big Bang", 2.Hydro- and helium-atoms core/centre forming couple of minutes after it , 3. 300 000 years from Big Bang Hydro- and helium-atoms formed completely and background radiation is formed, 4. First stars and galaxies are formed, building blocks for universe from stars exploding, 5. Our Milky Way-galaxy is born, and so building blocks for our sun system, 6. Our sun system is born and our planet is "brought together" from meteors finally.

Here is spoken about creation of earth in six "days", later about (earlier but late) creation of heavens:

41:9-10 "Say (Mohammed): Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance)."

He gave us blessing even this point, continental-plates and with them beginning of evolution on mountains, although even before that there were higher formations on earth. At that early stage mountains may have not be yet so "high above ground" as now, but as soon as those started to develop it was beginning of it, leading into it, and still more higher than other parts of earth. So " set high above" may be later time than this two "days"/periods from creation of earth (maybe it has been last four days or all six, still going on), because when Allah will "set" something to happen, it is, has been and will be, Allah has known always He will do it (and that is answer for those "who ask").

Above here is spoken about six different "day" of creation (of earth) than in these two "days" below.
So here is about creation of heavens (in these verses about our galaxy and sun-system, happening partly same time with formation of earth, “moreover”):

"Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) SMOKE (/hot gas, "Dukhaan"): He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye TOGETHER, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience." So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge."

These two "days" (periods) above are different from ayats 9-10, obviously last two "days" in ayat 11. ("smoke"= 5.formation of our milky way-galaxy, "come ye together"= 6.birth of our sun system from our galaxy). "To it and to earth" may also mean both separately or both coming together, or then both, as in heavens/earth (in pieces of meteors) forming from gas "smoke"), an then in meteor-bombing of earth. As we know, star fogs forming galaxies especially in the early stages of universe (more recently our own galaxy and its star-system of sun, which both "sky" could be here) have been plenty of looking like smoke filling the space before higher amount of stars and planets, and look like smoke even now (in more younger systems). "Dukhaan" (in Arabic) in Koran means smoke/HOT gas. These "circles of clouds" formed for example planets, so "sky" did come "together" WITH ITSELF. Matter of Earth has been born from stardust before our star developed, and so it is originated from explosions of earlier stars and their "smoke/gas", also more harder rocks and dust were brought "together" to form the earth, formed from gas ("smoke") coming together. Moon of earth were born from collision of Earth and planet size of Mars, so "sky" (our galaxy and star-system) and Earth BOTH coming together most likely means that (and bombardment of asteroids). If Bedouin back then realized that earth and sky have same origin, it is BIG miracle itself. Later Earth came "together" ALSO WITH ITSELF when it cooled down and were divided into different layers, and when continents formed super-continents.

Think that in these "AND" word will split the sentence, like dot (as in arabics there is no dots, so we can not know if there should be), and you see that both earth and heavens, and all between them (=heavens), each had their own six days of creation:

"We created the heavens and the earth -----------------and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us."


"He it is Who created the heavens -----------------------------and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do."
"It is Allah Who has created the heavens -------------------------and the earth, and all between them, in six Days, and is firmly established on the Throne (of Authority): ye have none, besides Him, to protect or intercede (for you): will ye not then receive admonition?"
"Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens ----------------------and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things. No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been obtained). This is Allah your Lord; Him therefore serve ye: will ye not receive admonition?"
"He Who created the heavens and the earth -----------------------------and all that is between, in six days, and is firmly established on the Throne (of Authority): Allah Most Gracious: ask thou, then, about Him of any acquainted (with such things)."
"He it is Who created the heavens ---------------------------------and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!"
"Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens -----------------------------------and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!"

In Koran Allah says that He created heavens and earth each in 6 PERIODS OF TIME (6 "days" can be even seen as false translation, it speaks about unknown periods of time which is commonly seen as days), with a difference compared to Bible that "all that is between" and "no weariness", He did not sleep/relax. "Day" could be understood as "God time", before sun or planets.

Relativity of time (according to A.Einsteins theory of relativity) can be seen in Koran at least in 32:5, 22:47, 70:4, 17:52, 10:45 and 23:112-114, in some circumstances/situations one of our days is described to be (for us with Allah) like for example "1000/50 000 years", one place where it is told to be like this (that time is relatively and for us might feel that we were on earth "day or part of of a day", 23:112-113) is the end of all, Judgment. For example big gravity slows down time beyond our understanding, people on the planet near black hole might seem for us not moving at all, but they live normal time.

One miracle of Koran proving it is not from man is that Allah does not say that sun will set to west and rise from east, as it does not do so in north at summer, it sets and rises more closer to north than west/east. He only says that He is lord of (two) east and west. Only Abraham is said to have spoken in argument (2:258) that "But it is Allah that caused the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West.", which might prove that prophets are not all-knowing, which is proven by two different statements by Allah and Moses in 55:17 and 26:28, as Moses spoke only about one east and west, and Allah about two of both (think about earth divided by lines on both sides, both line has own west/east).

6:125 "Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He opened their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.

This is about painful pressure in avoid of space.

21:32 "We builded the heaven maintained and protective roof; yet they turn away from its signs."

As we know, our atmosphere protects us for example from meteors/space. Could be otherwise, Mars lost its atmosphere. Our universe protects us from hostile emptiness around it, if this means it.

76:1 "Has there not been over man (/mankind) a long period of time, when he was nothing -(not even) mentioned-?"

(Earliest) Human-like have been on this universe less than 6 seconds from "24 hours" of age of universe, modern humans less.

65:12 "It is Allah Who created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). His command descents between them (heavens and earth), that you may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah surrounds all things in His knowledge."

Now we know that our atmosphere has seven layers ("..and of the earth the like thereof", for example stratosphere, but similitude in our athmosphere is only in numbers, not that stars would be in lowest heaven), but here (and from other parts talking about 7 heavens) you can possibly undestand that universe / universes (and their dimensions) have also 7 different layers/dimensions. First layer of heaven could be (night) sky seen by us (and either milky way, our whole universe or even several universes in same "dimension level"), because when seen from space, it does not look like the earth would have any atmosphere ("heaven") between it and space. "7 heavens" can also be translated (at least in 23:17) also as "7 paths/tracks".


Posted by moon2/koran at 3:49 PM EEST
Updated: Thursday, 16 February 2006 2:52 PM EET
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Topic: 3: ASTRONOMY 2

51:47 "With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, we are able to extend the vastness of space thereof."

Here is spoken about "heaven" in single form, obviously from our own universe. As we know, our universe is expanding still. According to Koran Allah will also roll up heaven in the end of all (21:104, 69:16, can mean collapsing, or expanding to emptiness and to black holes, and Allah says there that He will "repeat creation" as He "began the first creation"). Maybe mankind has time up until then.

79:30-31 "And the earth, moreover, hath He formed in round shape (/egg shape, "dahaha", round LIKE the ostrich's egg with flat sand around covering the egg from predators). He draweth out there from its water ("ma-aha") and its pasture."

79:31 Says (remember that in some translations interpretation of words is totally different, as arabics give opportunity for it, and so people living in times of “flat-earth” did not forsake Koran because of this part in it) either that water was draweth from earth creating pasturage for animals (that use pasturage) like dinosaurs (as it does from under surface, after rains/near oceans or rivers for example), or that land (=pasturage) was draweth from water along with water. Later would be case if earth was very "flat" after meteor bombings and forming of oceans (from water in meteors), and so covered by oceans before land started to rise through usual "easing up" after high compressing pressure (from meteors/molten planet/water) and formation of continental plates (colliding together, lifting ground). Sea level has also been 600 meters higher 450 million years ago, and water has came from pieces of earth (pasturage), meteors/comets.

Result from continental plates, only continent of Pangaea and it stretching to pieces, as dry paint stretches in balloon getting bigger, is mentioned on next places (remember that Suras in Koran are not in order as given, Sura 96 was given first), forming of mountains is mentioned in each after these:

80:26 "And We split the earth in fragments (/cleaving it asunder/clefts),"
This told us that earth has been once as one continent, but has been divided with continental plates as in many parts. It is connected into next part:
13:3 "...spread out the earth (/expand the earth, "madda al-ard")..."
15:19 "...the earth we have spread out (like a carpet, "maddadnaha"= "We expanded" or "We spread out"-"madda", which means "to stretch" or to "to expand" or "to spread out".)..."
20:53 " a carpet spread out (="mahda" literally means a flat road, or a road that is easy to walk on. It is similar to our highways today. They are easy to drive on.)..."
88:17-20 "....stretched the earth ("sutihat", stretched)..."

Here is demonstrated motion of the earth in space:
77:25 "Have We not made the earth a fast moving object ("kifaata", like bird/horse whose traveler can not control it) with den of storage?"
55:10 "And the earth, is a running object ("wada´aha", like running camel or man) for the creatures"
78:6-7 "Have We not made the earth as a cradle ("mihaada", as cradle in motion) and the mountains like pegs?"
101:4 "It is a day where on mankind will be like moths ("farash") scattered about."
2:22 "Who has made the earth flying ("farsh", like flying insect / also couch), ..."

Earth is like running object/ cradle/ a flying insect which is proving motion of the earth.

80:26 above is connected into next part:
27:88 "And you see the mountains, you think them to be solid, and they shall pass away as the passing away of the cloud-- the handiwork of Allah Who has made every thing thoroughly; surely He is Aware of what you do."

Here is told many things: how mountains move with continental plates ("passing away", and actually clouds do not move but by movement of the earth as clouds are pushed by wind forward, which is affected by rotation of the earth creating winds, so mountains move because inner core of the earth is molten, which is also depended on rotation of the earth), and how mountains will eventually vanish from our sight (to ground level) by erosion as clouds will pass ("pass away") beyond horizon. We have mountains because our planet is not old enough, in billion years it will seem very different. Very interesting in this part is this:

15:19 "And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance."

Although "immovable" is interpretation of translator, this part can be understood in such way. If someone think that this is just writings of ordinary man, why would this man put so much contradiction between these two parts (anyway no "contradiction" if 27:88 is understood only as telling only about erosion or about movement of earth under clouds/mountains, as it is actually Earth moving, not those, and causing for example winds, but man from 7th century were not able to know that and would have meant movement of clouds), as he surely were able to keep other contradictions away? Answer is simple, mountains does not move but earth under them is moving, confirming 27:88. It can also hint for movement of the Earth in space, mountains moving along with it.

78:19 "And the heavens shall be opened as if there were doors,"

In the end universe will be full of black holes. This can also hint for wormholes.

70:8 "On the day when the heaven shall be as molten copper"

This could describe situation near (any habituated) planet when star near it is dying, perhaps in expansion period. Also global warming can lead Earth being hot like Sauna, with methane from seas in atmosphere, into fate of Venus that has yellow/orange sky from view of person looking from surface.


31:10 "He has created the heavens without any pillars that you can see..."

Koran gives a hint (or says NO to it all) that heaven could have "pillars" (which you can not see if there is not any). Science has noticed that space is full of gravitation-disorders, kind of small dots which form wide network of gravitation-behavior what may keep our universe from collapsing. And if some object goes in space certain distance to one direction, then goes same distance to another direction, mass of object stays the same when going to different directions. That is because this object has its own gravity-point, where from pressure to all directions is same. Without this property whole university would collapse. Koran mentions quality of universe:

50:6 "Do they not look at the sky above them? How We have adorned it, and there are no flaws in it? "

Small looking things keep our universe not collapsing or turning to total chaos, small change in Earth orbit would freeze or fry us. Usually in other star-systems big gas-planets have moved closer to sun, and have swallowed small rock-planets. We have got as close to borders of our universe as we can, but beyond certain limits we are not able to see simply because there are not (yet born) anything that could send us any information. Only youngest stars cover sky in its limits, rest in our knowledge is guessing (expanding, birth of stars). We can only imagine what is near or beyond border, can it be crossed?

67:3-5 "He Who created the seven heavens one above another: no want of proportion wilt thou see in the creation of The Most Gracious. So turn thy vision again: seest thou any flaw? Again turn thy vision a second time:(thy) vision will come back to thee dull (/tired) and discomfited, in a state worn out. And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest (/nearest) heaven with lamps, and We have made such (lamps) (as) missiles to drive away satans, and have prepared for them the chastisement of the blazing fire."

"One above another" could mean both closely and distant from each others. Vision coming "back" could mean theory that if universe is roundly shaped, light would come back to place where it left (like our eyes) faded ("worn out"). Could "nearest heaven" mean our whole universe or just our own "Milky Way"-galaxy, that can be seen as a belt at night? Could "lowest" mean furthest border in our universe? Rest we will maybe understand more clearly later (ins Allah), there is lots of options what "jinns" mean in Koran exactly, but we can not know even if "thin" area would be area of "forces of evil", as stronger good "central powers" (allied creations) drive them further away from older center in expanding space, to areas of new-born stars (lambs) which make navigation difficult, moving with instability (with out certain permanent, for any but God to know, course or orbit) very fast across space like "missiles"?

Biggest miracle here is that Allah uses word "lamp" to describe (for our eyes) small (further) stars, but in other places calls those stars for example "constellation" (25:61) and simply "stars", but with them also in same place says our own sun as a "lamp". So Allah made clear that stars are also same kind of "lamps" like our own sun, only further away.

69:17 “And the angels will be on its (heavens) sides, and eight will, that Day, bear the Throne of thy Lord above them.”

This might be meaning that our universe or other heavens (universes/levels/dimensions) above it might have eight corners, as square or as rectangle, or even as a saddle (as scientific research now suggest)

57:25 "We sent down iron, in which is great might, as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help..."

Rocks containing iron bombarded ("sent down") our planet, that gave its final form. Iron has come instrument of war, but also important for development after industrialization, as one benefit for mankind.

6:65 "Say: ´He has power to send tornment on you from above or from under your feet, or to cover you with confusion in party strife, and make you to taste the violence of one another.` See how variously We explain the signs in diverse ways; that they may understand."

This part reminds mostly from meteors, hurricanes and floods (above), plus earthquakes and volcano eruptions (below). Also wars are too common. Bedouin from semi nomadic-desert population knew those (with not much wars by strict tribe-hierarchy, definitely there are no hurricanes/floods/earthquakes/tsunamis/volcanoes in Arabian desert)?

Humankind brought (after their death) to judgment are described (in hadith of prophet,puh) to have sun "close" to them, describing sounds same as predictions about our sun as a "red giant" (before it swallows the Earth), but it is impossible to know if it happens in this planet, world (/dimension) /time as we humans understand them. For gravity affects time, but it does not affect Allah. And judgment of mankind might not be end of “Judgment Day” for other species in space, until universe disappears.

25:61 "Blessed be He Who has placed in the heaven big stars (constellations/star mansions/star groups), and placed therein a great lamp and a moon reflecting (/giving) light."

When Bible talks about sun and moon as two different light giving object of sky, Koran does difference between them using different descriptions: Light (“nur”), when talking about moon, and torch (siraj), when talking about sun. First one is dead rock that reflects shine of light, second one is formation of heaven, with lots of fuel to burn (like in a torch) in a constant state of burning giving both heat and light (like a torch). Word "star" (najm) is completed by other word, that describes star as burning and moon (reflecting light) when its (stars) light forces its way through shadows of night: this word is "thaqib". Moon is not said to produce light, only reflecting it. Same way Islam can only reflect small proportion of shine from light of Allah, not all in any case.

In Koran "kawbab" seems to mean definitely planets, that are formations of heaven which reflect light and does not produce light like stars. Now we know how structure of heaven is balanced by ordered orbit of stars and stability in (changes of) gravity, which are connected to their mass and speed of own movement.


But isn’t this just what Koran describes when mentioning this basics for this balance of heaven in 21:33 with words, that were understand not before our time:

21:33 "It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon: all (celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course (/each in an orbit floating)."
55:5 "The sun and the moon run on their fixed courses (exactly) calculated with measured out stages for each (for reckoning).

As we now know, sun goes around centre of our galaxy. Koran uses (for example 36:40) words "swim" and "floating", that sounds familiar with theory of space and time, how gravity affects in it by making a "hole" size of mass of celestial object (f.ex. sun), and how this "hole" in space-time field makes other bodies orbiting it to stay on their courses (bigger mass=bigger hole= more further away others have to be on "lower steps", so that too deep downhill in gravity will not swallow it, if too close). When in Europe they "knew" that sun is orbiting earth, this description could have been accepted even through their "science" (37:5 mentions "points of sun’s risings", 365, one for each day).

36:38 "And the sun runs unto a resting place (/runs on its fixed course for a term appointed), for him: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in might, the All-Knowing."
81:1-2 "When the sun (with its spacious light) is folded up (/sun is wound round and its light is lost and overthrown); when the stars fall, losing their lustre;"
82:1-2 "When the sky is cleft asunder; when the stars are scattered;"

Koran says that sun travels place appointed to it in time appointed, and also mentions "wrapping up" (like scroll of papyrus) of everything (f.ex. 82:1-2) in the end of all (sun is wrapped before?), could these describe (sun) going to black hole? Theory is that universe either collapses, or it will get wider until it becomes empty, full of black holes swallowing everything. Prophet Mohammed said in hadith that "the sun and moon will be folded up (or joined together or deprived of their lights) on the Day of Resurrection".

39:5 "He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night"

Koran uses same verb to describe changes of day and night as is used in Arabic for rolling turban around head, when sheets goes over and over around. This should make impression about round earth, because our heads are also. Ibn Tamiyah said 1328 AC all "celestial bodies" are round, because in 21:33 (for example) word "falak" is means spinning wheel (floating in orbit), also used as describing young girls round breasts.

7:54 "..He draweth the night as veil over the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession.."

Change of night and day, and those being on opposite sides of the earth, gives impression about being "hidden" and "seeking" of others continually. Darkness of night really looks like veil covered when looking from space.

3:94 "Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create: but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.) He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible."

Most interesting thing in Astronomy is: Are there other intelligent life-forms in space. It is BIG space, is it waste of space? This part of Koran seems to give certain answer to it, here Allah directly ask that why should he take son from humans, because there are much more developed and intelligent life-forms (whom He is more pleased than to us) that He has created, if He wanted (to conceive) a son? What could Bedouin mean with that 1400 year ago? Camel ? Dog ? Apes thousands kilometers away?

Posted by moon2/koran at 3:49 PM EEST
Updated: Friday, 7 October 2005 1:20 PM EEST
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4:133 "If it were His will, He could destroy you, o mankind, and create another race; for He hath power this to do."
17:99 "See they not that Allah, Who created the heavens and the Earth, has power to create the like of them? And He has decreed for them an appointed term, whereof there is no doubt. But the unjust refuse but disbelief."

According to Islam humans are not "image of God" like Bible teaches us. In the beginning (1:2) Koran says "Praise be to Allah, the cherisher and sustainer of the WORLDS". In Koran Allah has created us and "(other) things of which you have no knowledge" (16:8). Humans are not said to be created first, before us Allah created "jinns", which sound like other species in space (all those yet unknown for us?), some of them live in same world (universe/earth) with us, some of them even eat same food as us, are invisible (by technology?) or can be seen, are good and bad, and some resemble humans, even have intelligence (not all of the jinns are said to do or be so, but at least some or many of them):

55:15-16 "And He created jinns from fire free of smoke: Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?"
72:6-12 "(jinns said:) ´True, there were persons among mankind who took shelter with persons among the jinns, but they increased them into further error. And they (came to) think as ye thought, that Allah would not raise up any one (to judgment). And we pried into the (secrets of) heaven (/we have sought to reach the heaven); but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires. We used, indeed, to sit there in stations, to (steal) a hearing; but any who listens now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush. And we understand not whether evil is intended to THOSE ON EARTH, on whether their Lord (really) intends to guide them to right conduct. There are among us some that are righteous, and some the contrary: we follow divergent paths. But we think that we can by no means frustrate Allah throughout the earth, not can we ESCAPE Him BY FLIGHT.` "


Jinns are told to be created from "fire without smoke" before humans. When you think where fire does not have any smoke, it is in space without any oxygen. There is huge "torches" (of Koran), stars that are in constant state of burning and fire, and (without oxygen) there is no smoke. When first stars exploded, all material for planets and even for us were born, so would not any possible alien-species be also from the stars? Wideness of description from creation, unlike with humans (water/clay/semen), makes it possible that in space can be all kind of alien-life, not just carbon or water based, as all material has come from stars, that is probably why Allah took first stars as point in their creation, as creation from water is definitely valid to describe life on earth, but for all planets it might not fit. Jinns have been traditionally understand by interpretation as "spirits" or "ghosts", but from their description we have a hint from other more developed civilizations, which have for example capability to fly, to travel with developed ways (even among us unnoticed, f.ex. invisible or as a human/animals according to hadiths, in hadiths jinns are also said to live on same world with us, in same universe or even some on same planet, but not ALL jinns are said to mach these descriptions, they are just general descriptions about [some of] them, because such interpretation that all jinns are on earth is in contradiction to parts of Koran where is talked about flight and passing of borders of heavens by jinns). Jinns are even told to have been sitting on borders of heaven (universe) seeking way to get ("hear"=search for information, with radio waves?) pass it, but noticed that it can not be done. If there is nothing behind border, where to cross it? What kind of natural phenomena’s there could be close the border of heavens, universe and dimensions, where we can not get any information yet? "Guards" and "flames" (meteors and electric flows? Other dangerous flame-like phenomena’s? New-born or dead stars wondering in high speed without orbit around galaxy?)? So does jinns mean aliens, both the spirits and alien-creatures, or are spirits in fact alien-creatures? Jinns said (72:12) that they are not able to escape Allah even by flight, so is it not clear that they live or are (in future at least) capable of living outside our planet?

According to Islam satan (Iblis) was originally a "Jinn", who was promoted to an angel (and began rebellious, knowledge brings responsibility), even that points to a very long life and development with an invidual / species that finally got "promoted" clearly above his own level in "mega-evolution". In Koran (21:30) Allah said that He created “everything living” from water, but it may be only about species on earth (as ayat says “didn’t UNBELIEVERS know..” and "earth"), everything else can be classified as “jinns” who were created from (“fire without smoke”) stars long before possible evolution from water (or from other elements, as material for the planet came from the stars). It is only interpretation that “good and bad” jinns means that there is also Muslims and other religions (like Christians) among them, they might have their very own understanding, mission and judgment, as obedient angels do (who were created from light, so satan was clearly only jinn promoted to an angel, although there is possibility that all or some other jinns were already originally created to be fallen angels, satans, and so from "fire without smoke").

14:19-20 "Do you not see that Allah has created the heavens and the earth with truth? If He wills, He can remove you and bring (in your place) a new creation! And for Allah that is not hard or difficult."
42:29 "And among His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures He has scattered through them: And He has power to gather them (heavens & earth / creatures) together when He wills."

We are young species, and with all probability there is lot more older species (intelligent creatures) than us, even though habitable planets would be even more rare than we think, it is VERY BIG space. These creatures also act (knowingly/unknowingly/accidentally) according to will of Allah (even used as tools or instruments by Him), that has been defined when the rules of nature have been decided and created. Rules of nature by Allah dictate also everything happening here, even us, because it has made us what we are. And Allah can also put humans and other species to meet when He wills. He can also create through us new species as robots, which could be also understand as “jinns” (metal on them is created in stars before fire). It would still be creation of Allah, as He created us and ordained all that we will do:

6:101 "To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: How can He have a son when He hath no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things."

"Primal origin of creation" is that even if man or jinns would create even planets, Allah is real creator behind it, as He created them before it to do so.

55:33 "O ye assembly of jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! Not without authority (/permission) shall ye be able to pass!"

Here is also hint that "jinns" have been able for space-travel before humans. Fact is, that if we will not get to other planets soon, we will be extinct species sooner or later. If we are able to pass atmosphere of our planet or border of universe, then we have had permission for it. For Muslims living in space would be easier, pilgrimage to Mecca is not necessary if there is no change for it, and in prayer it is possible to bow in any direction when no certainty about direction.

One great evidence behalf of Koran is that it does not declare that each and everyone of us is going to die on earth, in this planet, but will leave it open that are we going to travel on other planets as we now see might be possible someday, although Koran speaks generally (many times as quotes of other than Allah) about humans living/who lived here and about general life in here, which will not lose its meaning even for generations possibly on other planets as home of mankind. Mars could be easily and quickly habituated by giant domes build on lopes of mountains, where circulation of water (brought by pipes from northern polar cap) would go from lake/sea in the bottom of dome to upper hills of mountain, raining down (even as snow on top) and forming rivers coming back to lake/sea under it. This could be done also on mountains on Earth above clouds in case of nuclear winter (nuclear war/meteor). Destruction of Columbia-shuttle (with for example former fighter pilot of Israel, who were leading attack on Iraq nuclear-facility in 1981) in 1.2.2003 has its own message, as war on Iraq were already decided on that time, it urges mankind to do more co-operation on space-programs, and reserve of now 1,5-1,7 billion Muslims is far too large to be wasted. Muslim dominated Kazakhstan (then autonomic Republic in Soviet Union) were and will be country from where human first time got to space.


6:100 "Yet they make the jinns equals with Allah, though Allah did create the Jinns; and they falsely, having no knowledge, attribute to Him sons and daughters. Praise and glory be to Him! (for He is) above what they attribute to Him!"

In Koran is already answer for beliefs that other species from space would be responsible for religions (Hindus and Christians? WHY??) and birth of humans (proved by evolution, would have been VERY slow unnecessary process for other than God).

72:11,13-15 "There are among us some that are righteous, and some the contrary: we follow divergent paths.".."And as for us, since we have listened to the Guidance, we have accepted it: and any who believes in his Lord has no fear, either of a short (account) or of any injustice. Amongst us are some that submit their wills (to Allah), and some that swerve from justice. Now those who submit their wills - they have sought out (the path) of right conduct: But those who swerve,- they are (but) fuel for Hell-fire´-"
6:130 "O ye assembly of Jinns and men! came there not unto you messengers from amongst you, setting forth unto you My signs, and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say: "We bear witness against ourselves." It was the life of this world that deceived them. So against themselves will they bear witness that they rejected Faith."

So there are those who reject fate (by choose if knowledge/intellectuality) brought to them on jinns (by their own prophets?), and those who have accepted it. If they are moving around universe (if I remember correct, even in hadiths is mentions about them visiting on different planets), message can be brought for them even for another planet to find. Allah only knows, Arabic words on Koran could have also another meaning on some other language, maybe that is why Allah said that we will never understand all from Koran. Maybe that is reason if aliens are "studying" us as claimed by some. That would ensure also that Koran will not vanish, even if mankind would, memorization of Koran might not be limited for mankind, it can be traveling with telepathic skills, at least Koran is traveling on radio transmissions by humans in space, and even we were raised from early human-like (so who is coming here after us? Notice how near to 6:130) :

6:133 "Thy Lord is self-sufficient, full of Mercy: if it were His will, He could destroy you, and in your place appoint whom He will as your successors, even as He raised you up from the posterity of other people."

7:19,24-25 "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish: but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."... "(Allah) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time.". He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."

Here is one of the great miracles in Koran. Only Adam and Hawwa (Eve) is said to die on earth, but NO ONE ELSE OR MANKIND IS NOT SAID DIRECTLY TO DIE ON EARTH, although it could have appeared certain for people living long time ago. Of course, Koran is words of Allah mostly for Mohammed and people of his time (fitting also with people after that through understanding of that time), so even interpretations of such that humans would die on earth will fit without problems. Descriptions about earth and mankind in it (in other parts) is almost like from traveling advertisement, description about life and living (and dying) on earth on early days of mankind, as these years on earth will not certainly lose importance even on distant future on far away planets as a birthplace of mankind. This is confirmed here:

31:034 "Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does any one know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: NOR DOES ANY ONE KNOW IN WHAT LAND HE IS TO DIE. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things)."

We can always try to guess where we are going to die, but no certain knowledge we have from it. Even if some would decide not to move from his country anywhere until he dies, he can not know if aliens from space or other humans are going to come to get him, for certain.

Here is some earlier mentioned descriptions about earth as in "traveling advertisement" (for interplanetary traveling):

57:4 ".........He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do."
40:64 "It is Allah Who has made for you the earth as a resting place, and the sky as a canopy, and has given you shape- and made your shapes beautiful,- and has provided for you Sustenance, of things pure and good;- such is Allah your Lord. So Glory to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!"
67:15 "It is He Who has made the earth manageable for you, so traverse ye through its tracts and enjoy of the Sustenance which He furnishes: but unto Him is the Resurrection."

14:48 "One day the earth will be changed to a different earth, and so will be the heavens, and (men) will be marshalled forth, before Allah, the One, the Irresistible;"

Although this part told most likely about Judgment Day (different than judgment, before it and we can not know time scale), it could also hint for living on other planets (where even constellations of stars look different on heavens), maybe it is reality on this Judgment Day when all people (except "people without knowledge", young and mentally limited) are required for accepting Islam (when Islam and Koran is so spread that no other member of other religions can not avoid it, even from intelligent species in space, and when Koran has been proven totally accurate on all ways as said on 41:53 "Soon will We show them our Signs in the [furthest] regions [of the earth], and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?").
This "marshalled forth" can be happening on long time scale as people and planets die and pass away, until all is finished and they finally get their punishment or reward they have been waiting (on their graves or elsewhere after destruction of planet, resurrection is anyway happening even our atoms were scattered all over galaxy), descriptions about judgment and punishments are only after this part, so this could be early part of the "day" (that could be billions of years).


14:43 "They running forward with necks outstretched, their heads uplifted, their gaze returning not towards them, and their hearts a (gaping) void!"

Yes, this is earlier than 14:48, but there is clear distinction and cap between them as Allah is for example speaking about messengers in couple of parts. So this could also describe both judgment or that "Day" (14:42) before it. Some scientists believe that humans evolution will eventually lead us with body similar as space-aliens are described to have, big head with long neck and thin foots and arms, also genetic engineering will be very likely (maybe destroying religious part from our brains, causing this "void in hearts"). On that judgment they as well might have same long neck, and "heart full of emptiness" as going to be judged, no light and so no gaze (or when brains are just too big not to even care about Allah). So this part also may have dual meanings. Warnings of risks might well carry on, along describing judgment:

4:47 "O ye People of the Book! believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hind wards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be carried out."

This might be about Judgment. But who knows, maybe "aliens" visiting here are us from future, "beyond recognition". Description about fire that can be put down by water or earth may say that humans have advance, maybe it is our bigger willing to believe or our feelings (genetic engineering changed jinns?) that gives us advantage in some things.

27:65 "Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except Allah, knows what is hidden: nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgment)."

Finally ending this section, here is possibly a question inside answer:

2:30 "Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

Why "vicegerent" on earth? Koran only mentions Adam as first VICEGERENT on earth, there is no denying that same kind of human-like species could exist on other planets, or that other kinds of earlier human-like species were created earlier (who were not "vicegerent", maybe because they were unable to be it due lack of some properties like higher intelligent). How did angels know properties of man as Allah made Adam to teach to them all names of things in human-language, and angels said (2:32) they know nothing that Allah has not given them? For me it hints that human species (Adam) might not have started from earth, but from other planet(s) (with different language), as it is said also in other part (7:24) for Adam and Eve that "get ye down" (from paradise?). If that is the case (it might just be speaking unliterally or with descriptioning way, about expulsion from paradise-like state of mind and being on earth already, as earth and obviously paradise too is said to be created/opened again later elsewhere on Koran, and Koran has been with Allah even before Adam), and 3:59 "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: ´Be´. And he was." has a meaning that as Jesus was from womb of woman and so was Adam (all parts of their semen eventually originating from organic materials from ground of any planet, "dust"), then body of Adam before receiving its spirit from paradise may have been (as genetically engineered to fit) implanted into womb of woman (as Jesus was implanted by Allah) from earlier human species to speed up evolution by Allah (perhaps using as a tool some like angels or some other ways, as still Allah would be one to orchestrate and organize everything as creator of them and as all knowing and almighty their actions too), as most likely also Jesus was implanted to his mother by Allah as a SEMEN, as all living things need to grow from somewhere (it does not matter was he created as semen or embryo). Notice, even though Allah would have created semen inside mother of Jesus, it would not make Allah as biological father of Jesus as Christians almost claim Him to be.

Posted by moon2/koran at 3:48 PM EEST
Updated: Friday, 7 October 2005 2:47 PM EEST
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Besides text below, About evolution more shortly in these links too:



24:45 "Allah has created every animal from WATER..."
25:54 "It is He Who has created man (/mankind) from WATER..."

Science has found out with global DNA-tests (going with those "back in time") that all humans (from all over the world) have same mother and father they all originate from (in fact in tests only mother can be seen, but there had to be male too), "Adam and Eve", in Islam "Eve" is "Hawwa" that means "original/first mother". Human-like that preceded modern human are hinted in Koran (if in the future, why not before?), in fact it is said in 6:133 that we have been raised from "posterity of other people", were they related to us or not, were there leap of evolution or not, humans were created from "earth ground/clay" meaning cycle of nature that from all our cells have grown, previous species are also part of that, in fact it can not mean anything else, as 37:11 is speaking about all humans created from clay in general level, not just about Adam, and neither in some parts said creation of mankind from semen does not exclude (body of) Adam out, in fact it could be ONLY about (body of) Adam/"Eve", beginning of humans, if there will be human clones that are not from sperm, even though “semen” could be cell also. Allah said He CREATED man from semen, in past form, body of Adam could have been created on Earth for spirit that were casted out from paradise.
And semen requires womb, by human or non-human, and so that single “soul”/”person” (Quran) from who we all come from, could have been non-human, invidual "soul"/"person", not Adam/Hawwa, if they had at least one common parent from earlier human-like (and prophet, pbuh, mentioned creation from "male" and "female", that can also mean both ways):

6:133 "Thy Lord is self-sufficient, full of Mercy: if it were His will, He could destroy you, and in your place appoint whom He will as your successors, even as He raised you up from the posterity of other people."
17:99 "See they not that Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth, is able to create the like of them. And He has decreed for them an appointed term, whereof there is no doubt. But the unjust refuse but disbelief."
14:19 "..If He so will, He can remove you and put (in your place) a new creation!


Really, those human-like had time appointed at them, none of them survived to this day (although apes did). Allah say in Koran (5:60) that He can create man to apes, so why not other way round, (eventhough according to evolution-theory man is not from apes but from common acestors)? Still after that man would have been created from soil (and from water in beginning of evolution), as were apes before us and those before them, eating and growing with what comes from soil of the earth (and material for soil came from water by another dead plants and animals, as evolution came from there), and by semen, “nutfah”, that came from food (86:6-7, between ribs and backbone is stomach) and grow in womb. In fact this is only way how Adam came from all these three. Allah said that mankind has been created from single “soul”/”person” (4:1/39:6), but that person could be not only Adam (Adam is not mentioned there), but earlier human-like relative from who’s sperm (BODY OF) Adam and/or Hawwa were created (“Eve” WAS NOT according to Quran created from ribs of Adam). There actually is femine-form in arabics, so who was first? Are we from offspring of Adam/Hawwa or (ALSO) from their “father/mother”? Did they have one common parent from earlier human-like?

As you already know, Koran says that Allah created both all animals and mankind (/man) from water (24:45/25:54), and that is where evolution started according to theory. In other places is said that man is created from ground of the earth (23:12, and earth is where all we eat is coming from, that way also producing sperm for us and animals, and everything else in growth and what we are, in fact it can not mean anything else, as 37:11 is speaking about all humans created from clay in general level, not just about Adam, and Adam is not neither excluded from creation according to Koran by “nutfah”, semen, too), so either there is contradiction or man was created from all (water, clay, semen). Well, many say that Allah "shaped" man from both water and clay with His "hands", but can we take it so literally (as many descriptions in Koran and hadiths we can not)? Would that not happen even if Allah started our evolution "shaping" from water through other animals to two-legged animals, then to earlier human beings, then to modern human through (genetically engineered and changed, leap of evolution) sperm of this earlier human species (Neanderthals?), into molt and shape of nowadays?

3:59 "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

If Jesus (and his seed/embryo) was created into womb of a woman by saying "Be", so in what womb of what human species was Adam created? It could be that this "from ground of the earth" meant that semen drop that grow from what someone got from food (Allah made him to eat by "Be", and so created, 86:6-7 said that semen is developed between backbone and ribs, from food in stomach), then grow as (body of) Adam (in fact it might be only Adam and beginning of humans, as clones might not be from sperm).
“Similitude” can only mean that, as Allah has created everything else also by word “Be”, so only reason for mentioning it can only be evolution really, in fact 38:72 says that when Allah created Adam He “breathed” His spirit into him (notice that according to 2:34 immediate command to bow down after that “breathing” in 38:72 happened only after Adam was told name of things, so maybe his spirit was created before he came to earth in human body, explaining how according to Bible Jesus said he was before Abraham was on Earth) , which can be seen as one thing making difference between modern humans and earlier humans/animals, maybe it is mostly capability to believe in Allah that was given to first modern human coming from womb of earlier human (leap of evolution).

So this "dust", ground, is just recycled. When earth was created, so was that ground, and basics for that ground were created even earlier from stars that died. Those stars were created from (earlier stars and) beginning of universe after big bang, when atoms were created.

According to 21:30, heavens (with heavens?) and earth were together before big bang. "Everything living from water" described how on earth evolution (and so animals and plants, and so eventually dead material on top of rocky ground producing fertile soil, producing later also food and so food eating animals, sperm and eventually humans) had its BEGINNING in water. And so water had its beginning in "nothing" before.

Same pattern is also in description of creation of jinns before creation of humans, they are told to be created from "fire without smoke", and from (earlier) stars (that died) atoms were born, but that does not mean that (at least some) jinns could not be created from water or later than humans, it is just telling about larger SCALE of possibilities in creation, and common "start point" for all those different creations is this "fire without smoke" (and so as it is mentioned, and as humans were mentioned to be created from something that came after stars, from view of Allah creation of jinns happened before humans even though there would be earlier species in space), for all animals most latest common "starting point" for creation is from water, as all animals do not eat food from ground or reproduce by sperm. Common for all humans is at least creation of Adam/Hawwa from sperm.

No matter how you think Jesus was given birth, when Jesus were created into womb, he were definitely created in some mechanical stage of human development, nobody comes from nothing, Jesus was not spirit but man in flesh. So if it were virgin-birth, either God created that sperm into womb directly (from something that Mary ate?), or then Jesus was created already as an embryo/child into a womb, using same materials that exist in our food, and so in ground too.

Matt.22:45 “If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he (Jesus) be his son?"

Only possibility could be that spirit of Jesus were born before David, and so Jesus was in “high rank” compared to David (Jesus is most mentioned prophet in Qur´an). Idea about Jesus being son of David, from descent of David, refutes idea about actual “son of God”, as if Jesus had no human father, then he did not have genetically background in David that was from family of Joseph. So why would God be his genetic father then, if even David was not? So Jesus confirmed evolution (see my writing Human development, Evolution and there about Jesus saying he was before Abraham), and that he is “son of God” as Jews understood it, but not son of Allah...

7:24 told that Allah said to Adam and Hawwa "go ye down!", that can be understood as expulsion from paradise to be born in human body from womb, or then unliteral description about state of expulsion from paradise-like place or state (after he was created to paradise on Earth from womb), but it can also have meant that Adam came from different planet, as a seed/embryo to womb (experiencing expulsion trough new birth in earth) or then as a grown man (understanding his existence).

I think this all fine but complete description about evolution is more easier to understand through description about "jinns" (aliens), who were created from FIRE FREE OF SMOKE, and what that might have meant (that their material came from stars that died), and how more general description it needed as scale for (amount of) them is larger, as even animals in Koran is only said to be created from water (not from ground or by semen from it as humans, as some animals are not).

35:1 "Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs): He adds to Creation as He pleases: for Allah has power over all things."

Evolution is said to be continued, Allah can add into it what He wills.

37:11 "Just ask their opinion: are they the more difficult to create, or the (other) beings We have created? Them have We created out of a sticky clay!"

This ayat shows that we really are basically normal animals, we even share 98% of our genes with chimpanzees. So if simps were easy to create, so are we.


Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should not hurt (trouble) his neighbor. And I advise you to take care of the women, for they are created from a rib…” Sahih al-Bukhari

First of all, ADAM IS NOT MENTIONED IN THIS HADITH !!! We can not say who’s ribs are we talking about here ! Couldn’t it be that this "creation from rib" is figure of speech, showing how similar both man and woman are in genetic-structure, or describing area (of/around stomach) where sperm had its origin from food eaten (86:6-7 "sperm from between ribs and backbone" = stomach)? Even our bones produce essential products for our body, never forget that. Second of all, mention about creation from ribs IS NOT IN QURAN, and so for it could be not even right hadith as said by prophet (pbuh) himself. There is even risk, that in some point story of creation from bible could have been mixed here, maybe some enemies of Islam could have (tried) even deliberately twist remembering of these hadiths, as Islam were new and powerful competitor for them.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Human beings are the children of Adam and Adam was created from Earth. Allah says: ‘O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female

Earth is again food we and our ancestors have eaten, forming our cells. "We have created you from a male and a female" could be referring into previous fact that (BODY OF) Adam/Hawwa (TO EARTH) were created from sperm (coming from food) of earlier "human-like" (NOT MODERN HUMAN!), as dna-tests show this kind of leap of evolution about 200 000 years ago. Notice that "male and female" are not mentioned to be (modern) humans. And notice that these could also mean offspring of Adam and Hawwa (for example if they had different "human-like" parents, or if body of Adam was not father of Hawwa, before spirit of Adam was given to that body from paradise).

“O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women.”

[Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 1]

So what if "al-Hujarat:13 - We have created you from a male and a female" meant offspring of Adam and hawwa, and :

"created you from a single soul"

What if this is that earlier human-like from who´s sperm Adam/Hawwa were created, there is only mentioned "single soul/spirit/person", it is not mentioned that "single" were (modern) human/Adam.

"and from it created its mate"

(Body of) Adam and Hawwa had propably same father or mother (may be that another one were different) from these earlier human-like species, from who this creation is said to have happened (culmination point was either one, father or mother, sperm or womb, that both had common in creation eventhough other one might not have been).

"and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women"

"Them" is then Adam and Hawwa who were created from that earlier human-like.

Other human developement/properties:

96:15-16 "Let him beware! If he desist not, We will drag him by front of the head ("naseyah"), a lying , sinful front of the head ("naseyah")!

This Sura (given first) told what we now know, that in front part of our brains we make almost all of our moralistic and religious decisions. "Naseyah" means front side of head, sometimes it has been translated as a forelock. This area is developed among last ones in our brains, after/in the end of our puberty (often much after 20 years), so it is easy to understand why according to Islam Allah does not punish those who die young. But Allah knows our weaknesses in case of punishment:

4:56 "Those who reject our signs, We shall soon cast into the fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the chastisement: for Allah is Exalted in power, wise."

Why here is nothing about burning flesh? Because almost all of our receptors of sense and feeling are in the skin, not in our muscles. Bedouin from 7th century could not have known this even by mutilating himself.


But next is even more convincing, what you can see only by microscope in laboratories:

23:12-14 "Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay); then We placed as (drop of) "NUTFAH" (sperm) in a place of rest, firmly fixed; then We made the sperm into a clot of "ALAQAH" (leech-like structure/something that is clinging like congealed blood), and then We changed the "ALAQAH" into a "MUDGHAH" (chewed-like substance/fetus lump), then We changed the "MUDGHAH" into "IDHAAM" (bones, skeleton), then We clothed the "IDHAAM" with "LAHM" (flesh, muscles), then We caused him to grow and come into being as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the BEST to create!"

"Alaqah" means in Arabic several things. One is "leech-like structure", what embryo resembles in age of few days/weeks. Another is "bend form of thing/attached", that we can notice after embryo is firmly fixed (well attached) in wall of mothers womb, when it is bend like a hook. Third is "congealed blood", and in that stage of "alaqah" cells of embryo begins to form blood-cells going in their vessels. Because blood is joined to its vessel, embryo resembles "congealed blood" (plus previous leech-like structure).
"Mudghah" means "chewed-like substance", and it describes totally appearance of embryo (like chewed gum, that it resembles when it can be seen only by microscope). As known, bones develops under this structure inside of flesh-mass and then (real/final) flesh is put top of it (flesh and bones forming structure). This is what means words "lahm" (unbroken flesh).

The above Ayah explicitly states that the bones are formed first and that this is followed by the formation of flesh or muscles which take their position around the bones (clothing the bones). In fact the primordia or precursors of both the bone and muscle (in the form of myotomes and selertomes) are present together with those of bones and other tissues and organs in a collective primitive structure are formed during the first 40 days and is found in the Mudghah. However, in this stage the primordia of muscle have not yet differentiated into definitive bones and muscles. As they do not have the shapes or forms of bones or muscles, the whole embryo at this stage does not have a human appearance.
During the seventh week- the skeleton begins to spread throughout the body and the bones take their familiar shapes. The embryo then starts to acquire the human appearance. At the end of the seventh week and during the eighth week the muscles take their positions around the bone forms, "definitive muscles of trunk, limbs and head are well represented and foetus is capable of some movement". (Dr.Omar Abdul Rehman)
Embryo goes to a stage, where parts of it is shaped to same size what they are later supposed to be, compared to adults size, and other parts are yet not final size. Maybe this is what is meaning of Sura 22:5, that goes:

22:5 "O mankind! If ye have a doubt about the resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, PARTLY FORMED and PARTLY INFORMED, in order that We may manifest (Our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much). And (further) thou seest the earth barren and lifeless..."

15:26 "We created man from sounding clay, from mud molded into shape;"

As we know, we really are originated from dust/dirt of ground, from there grows everything that grows us (including our sperm), shape is in that food we eat or then it describes general forms of humanoid, hands/legs/head/body.

25:54 "It is He Who has created man (/mankind) from WATER: then has He established relationship of lineage and marriage: for thy Lord has power (over all things)."

Evolution started from water, this can only mean that because in other parts Adam is said to be created from mud/dust/dirt/clay of the (dry) earth, and from sperm, Mohammed would not have any reason to be so contradictive. Besides from our body 70% is water, which would be impossible to know or even guess for 7th century Bedouin.

Attachment of woman’s egg into a wall of womb is described perfectly in many places with a word "alaq", that is also name of this Sura given first:

96:2 "Created, out of a leech-like clot:"

"Clot" means also something that is clinging/hanging on. Sometimes used "like congealed blood" is used because of description of hanging on.

33:4 "God has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body.." -Yusuf Ali
"Allah has not made for any man two hearts within him..- Shakir"

First of all, this was in past-time form. As should be obvious from the above translations, the above verse is actually saying that God has not ‘made for’ any human being two hearts in their body. There can be no doubt that a person cannot possibly survive with two hearts, even if he is born with them due to some abnormality. The words ‘made for..’ indicate that no human being is suited to having two hearts, and this is a fact that nobody at all can question or deny. The Quran says that no human being is ‘made for having two hearts’ not because this might not ever occur, but because a human being could not survive if it did (from which I have not at least ever heard of, one kind of miracle is that it is so rare also). With transplant of new heart there is still only one (active) heart, some could try transplant two hearts (with catastrophe?), although it may not have anything to do with these verses as Allah is not one to create new heart(s) (or has created another heart for some another human originally/ if heart is artificial human-creation, then it would not be created especially for certain human but a separate creation from that), although if He would let someone to place it against His advice.

Other parts in Koran not to take too literally, but as romantic descriptions more likely:

47:29 " whose hearts is a disease, ... "
50:37 "....any that has a heart and understanding ....


3:154 "They hide in their minds what they dare not reveal to thee,........ ; but (all this was) that God might test what is in your breasts and purge what is in your hearts. For God knoweth well the secrets of your hearts."

Descriptions about heart should not be taken too literally, as neither many other parts of Koran, because anyway here also is mentioned our minds (and even back then connected to brains) brain functions. Of course our heart have their own nerve impulse-network , as it does have its electromagnetic field, that influences our other cells, but real effect from our hearts to our brains come from blood that it pumps into our brains.

21:34 "We granted not to any man before thee permanent life (here): if then thou shouldst die, would they live permanently?"

So even if we could transfer our minds into electric data or into robot brains, even that will not last forever as universe will end some day. Also accidents and all kind of bad luck will probably be very possible in time of millions of years.

2:96 "Thou wilt indeed find them (wrong-doers), of all people, most greedy of life,-even more than the idolaters: Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years: But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For Allah sees well all that they do."

Here we are informed that some day we might be able to live for thousand or more years, and with genetic engineering and new medicines it might be possible. Words "grant of such" can mean that we are allowed to pursue longer life through genetic engineering, if common intrest of mankind demands for it (as in space travel). Although Koran advices us not to touch into creation of Allah (His religion), "there is no force in religion" ayat and rules like that one does not have to go for pilgrimage if that is not possible, or that Muslim can even renounce his faith in case of threat, give us permission if it is necessary (but after achieving goal possible damage should be repaired). But longer life will also increase possibility that one could know Islam better, and opportunities to accept it. In western world people live double from that some in Africa. Wonder why...

36:68 "If We grant long life to any, We cause him to be reversed in nature: Will they not then understand?"

Here is told probably about reversing and decreasing in mind / intellectuality when getting old, but it could also be warning about results of genetic engineering (and long age achieved by that), for example our religious activity is inside our brains, so can we be sure that it part(s) of our brains will not be damaged?

75:3-4 "Does man think that We cannot assemble his bones? Nay, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers."

This part of Koran revealed that each human have unique finger tips (finger prints).

12:103 "Yet no faith will the greater part of mankind have, however ardently thou dost desire it."
12:106 "And most of them believe not in Allah without associating (other as partners) with Him!"

Although Muslims are now 33% of Asian population and 50% from African population, and increasing, these ayats are probably speaking only to Mohammed ("thou dost desire") about people in his times. But as you can see, is it not wonder that religion with this much evidence, and truly only world-wide monotheism, is still not yet even biggest religion in the world (officially, religion seems to be more important for most of Muslims than to most people of Christians, which might reflect words of prophet Jesus about "rich man getting his share here in this world" or that "blessed be poor").

"He (the Holy Prophet) said: The reproductive substance of man is white and that of woman (i. e. ovum central portion) yellow, and when they have sexual intercourse and the male's substance (chromosomes and genes) prevails upon the female's substance (chromosomes and genes), it is the male child that is created by Allah's Decree, and when the substance of the female prevails upon the substance contributed by the male, a female child is formed by the Decree of Allah." (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Menstruation (Kitab Al-Haid), Book 003, Number 0614)"

Most of the time, an embryo growing in the womb fully develops into either a male or a female with all the appropriate body parts and, many scientists believe, a mindset programmed according to its gender. What determines its gender -- in most cases -- are its sex chromosomes: two X chromosomes (another for female from man) in the nucleus of its original egg cell and it will become a female; a Y and an X chromosome (another for male from man) and it will become a male.

32:8 "And made his progeny from a quintessence of despised (/lowly) fluid."
86:6-7 "He is created from a drop emitted- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs."

Now we know that sperm is originated from where urine is produced, between backbone and ribs. Many people even think that sperm or that area is despicably/lowly. And we cannot forget that also our sperm is produced from what we eat (from ground), nothing comes from nothingness in us, and so it is originated also from our stomach’s (between backbone and ribs). And a man's seed is the quintessence of his body. It is therefore said metaphorically to proceed from his loins, i.e., from his back between the hipbones and his ribs. His backbone is the source and symbol of his strength and personality. In his spinal cord and in the brain is the directive energy of the central nervous system, and this directs all action, organic and psychic. The spinal cord is continuous with the Medulla Oblongata in the brain. Spinal cord also has essential importance for male sexual capability.

16:4 "He has created man from a sperm-drop, and behold, this comes open disputer!"
18:37 "..Dost thou deny Him Who created thee out of dust, then out of sperm-drop, then fashioned thee into a man?"

This "dust" means either ground or those atoms in food from ground which from this sperm is formed.


Posted by moon2/koran at 3:48 PM EEST
Updated: Thursday, 16 February 2006 2:56 PM EET
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Topic: 6: HISTORY

HISTORY: (Allah knows best)

Think about it: Black Death-plague arrived after crusades to Europe in trade-ship through Venetsia, that prospered because of trade from crusades. Andalusia brought renaissance, and after expulsion of Muslims from Spain it produced hundred year wars with protestants and Catholics by reformation of faith. Napoleon got to power because of his former conquest of Egypt, even though he lost to Turks, because he knew how to speak. World Wars began because of colonial-invasions, and rivalry about it, from Austria-Hungary colony of Muslim-Sarajevo. Russia invading and oppressing Muslims in Central-Asia came communist, after Muslims allied with Bolsheviks after they promised Muslims autonomic republics. Finland had opportunity to conquer St.Petersburg in 1919 when Bolsheviks were weak (Lenin himself said that if Finland had intervene even a bit, Bolsheviks would have lost a war) and former servant of tsars Mannerheim were eager to do that after civil war between red-white in Finland, but opposition of war in Finland won. Without communism may not have been Hitler in power (fear of communism was big issue), but Muslim-countries (and others) would still be under colonization, also Central Asian Muslim-countries by Russia, who knows if there would be any Muslims left now (communists had church as target, not Muslims).

8:30 "Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah. "

Koran is amazing even as a book of history. For example name of "Pharaoh" (as in the Bible) is corrected in Koran (hundreds of years later) as Fir´aun, and archaeologies have founded out that his name really were that. Not only that, but Koran says about drowned Pharaoh:

10:92 "So this day We shall deliver your (dead) body (out from the sea), that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! But verily, many among mankind are heedless of our signs!"
This pharaoh were found 1898, and his body had no signs of being long time in water.

5:14 "From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: Therefore We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done ."

After bloody history of past Roman Europe until WWII, Christians in western countries and in Africa have took this curse to be well proved, and Africans have even continued wars after their independence. 5:13 informs that Jews have been cursed by Allah, and this curse is easy to see in history, mostly executed by people of "Christians" (as majority from these people), and they are also said to have "change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them", and changes in their writings are almost legendary (proved by for example recently found Qumran scrolls, where in Deut.32:8 is said that God has provided nations "according to number of sons of God", that Jews were not only ones to receive prophets as they and Christians claim, questioning their whole faith. Before this discovery this part said "provided for each nation own god", which is far away from original meaning).

8:73 "The unbelievers are protectors, one of another: Unless ye do this, (protect each other), there would be corruption and oppression on earth, and great mischief."

Although this does not deny completely that unbelievers could protect Muslims, in history those moments are rare (really not majority from "unbelievers" or Muslims to be "protectors/protected"): Germany tried to protect itself in first World War by alliance with Ottoman Empire (now Turkey), and Croatians protect themselves against Serbs by alliance with Bosnian Muslims. This might be also mentioning only for Mohammed and Muslims at his times, as all allied against him. Koran is at the same time revelation partly for people (and Mohammed especially) of that time, also scientifically correct for people until this day, and all between. All of Koran is not mainly for people of this time, as some advices were given only concerning situation of that time (as for example fighting against Arab-pagans), but it still considers us also through knowing and understanding history.

34:15-16 “There was, for Saba, aforetime, a Sign in their home-land - two Gardens to the right and to the left. "Eat of the Sustenance (provided) by your Lord, and be grateful to Him: a territory fair and happy, and a Lord Oft-Forgiving! But they turned away (from Allah), and We sent against them the flood (released) from the dams, and We converted their two garden (rows) into "gardens" producing bitter fruit, and tamarisks, and some few (stunted) lote-trees.”

Also from cities destroyed there is interesting mentionings, it is possible that in Koran is described "plenteous garden" that located in Saabah (now Yemen), which had dam that provided living for over 30 000 people until dam collapsed at time of birth of prophet Mohammed (around 570 AC). On that area sabians main god (worshipped as only god by some) were moon-god, that had own giant temple build by c.a. 1200 BC.

It is also easy to see how Christianity has served Islam. It has made Islam much more closer religion in history, belief systems and theology for hundreds of millions of people (and for Muslims eventually to move live among them), compared to what would have been situation otherwise in ruler-gods Europe, Africa and America. Some say that Christianity stopped Islam from Europe and in these other now Christian areas, but in fact even in Africa most pagans did not accept Islam, and pagan-Rome was greatest world power, and if Christianity would not have broken Rome with arguments about balance of power between rulers and church into two parts, into East- and West-Rome, Rome could still control Middle-East too.


Posted by moon2/koran at 3:47 PM EEST
Updated: Friday, 7 October 2005 1:21 PM EEST
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GEOLOGY/PROPHECY: (Allah knows best)

In Koran is prophesied battle that took place exactly were it was said to happen, in lowest place on surface of earth. Palestinian area really has lower plains that is most lowest place in the land from sea-level, near Jerusalem. That is where Byzantium and Persia fought, as Koran predicted:
30:2-4 "The Romans have been defeated- in the lowest (/nearest, "adnal-ardh") land, but they, (even) after their (this) defeat, will soon be victorious- within a few years, with Allah is the command in the past and in the future: on that day shall the believers rejoice."

"Adna" means both words, lowest and and nearest. And this is what happened, after loss of Jerusalem and battle on "lowest land" (614-15 AD) and giving of this prophecy (615-16 AD), it took seven years (622 AD) until Romans had victory at Issus, and two years more (624) until Heraclius carried his victorious campaign to the heart of Persia (and Quraish pagans in Mecca were beaten off at Badr), and this is generally accepted as a "few years" (that does not mean any tight amount of years, although it has been interpreted as 7-9 years after following time-schedule of Romans victories). Heraclius were lazy and into luxurious way of living until almost destroyed his empire, but then he suddenly rose like only to make prophecy of Koran to come true, just to sink back to be nothing after defeating Persians. After Romans lost totally before prophecy, no human could not have predict this kind of turn, and Muslims were openly mockered by Arabian pagans from this prophecy. And how Mohammed could have known that this area (even close to Arabia) is lowest point on land (not under water)?

55:17 "(He is) Lord of the two Easts and Lord of the two Wests:"

This is one very strong proof that author of Koran knew that earth is round. In equator both day and night is 12 hours, and when sun is rising in other side of the globe, it is setting on the other side. There is two sun rising in a 24 hours, for both sides of the globe their own, as there is two sun settings on earth inside 24 hours (imagine sun rising on Europe , and then later on Hawaii when it is dark on Europe, it is still inside 24 hours of date-line in pacific). Also almost half of the earth is covered by Pacific Ocean, so other half is dominated by land mass (as it was stretched or bend into more crescent-like form over earth from more "flattened" single continent), so from view of Hawaii (centre of ocean) west is on eastern coast of China and east is on coast of western America, and so from around Mecca (centre of land concentration) it is other way around, west is on coast of western America and east is on coast of China.

Ibn Tamiyah 1328 AC said that it is opinion of Muslim scholars that earth and all "celestial bodies" are round, because in 21:33 (for example) word "falak" is means spinning wheel, also used as describing young girls breasts. He wrote that people on other side of the earth are not below us (upside-down), as we are not below them, because "celestial bodies" are surrounding central point (markaz), and so north is not upper than south. In Muslim maps north was down and south was up.

57:17 “Know ye (all) that Allah giveth life to the earth after its death! Already have We shown the Signs plainly to you, that ye may learn wisdom.”

Here might be only description about earth reviving after long time without water (rains), but it could also describe how earth has gone through mass-genocides of species, when almost all life was terminated. Earth was also “dead” after it had cooled down from lava and fire-ball it was (in constant movement).


According to Koran flood of Noah only involved people of (prophet) Noah, whole world is not said to have sunk (as in the Bible). Strongest candidate for "people of Noah" might be developed nation found from bottom of Black Sea, which people did not have time to escape when masses of water from Mediterranean Sea flow into it after straits of Bosbor (in place of modern Istanbul) collapsed thousands of years ago. Another good candidate is "lost Atlantis", that has been with high probability (descriptions of "Atlantis" match) located from southern Spain, as it sunk into sea on the coast. Another possibility is plains of Mesopotamia in Iraq, as ground is flushed to sea from very many times larger area than rivers there. Map from near sea-level area looks like there was much erosion hundreds of kilometers from rivers:

3:33 mentions Noah as important messenger among others like in 4:163 and in 6:84. 7:64 (and 21:77+25:37+37:82+53:52) mentions that (only) those who rejected message of Noah (people he was sent to) were drowned, no other except Noah is mentioned to have had "sign" then.

Inheritors of Noah in 7:69 (and in 37:77 "offspring") are only part of people on earth, ancestors of people of Israel. 10:73 people from ark that "inherit the earth" (37:79 "salutation to Noah among the nations") really got it as religions of Abraham (relative of Noah) cover over 50% of worlds population.

11:40 (and in 23:27 "valley overflows"+54:12) "water came forth from the valley" (Shakir translation) could describe how Bosbor-straits broke, also some heavy rain (54:11) and fountains (Yusufali translation) from ground might have gushed forth at same time, "(take) of each kind two, male and female" does not really mention all species of animals or plants in world, it does not mention animals/plants at all, only humans (his family and those who followed Noah), 26:119 mentions only filled ark ("with all creatures" is interpretation of Yusufali), can be it with humans and food and some animals.

11:43 Noah’s son mentioned going to mountains, but he never got that far as waves "came between them", no mention of flood covering mountains. 11:44 earth "swallowing" water and sky "withdrawing" can not be very much water in any sense.

11:48 confirmed that "there will be" (= they will be introduced to) other people that were not in Ark. 17:2-3 confirmed that descendants of Ark are people of Israel, through son of Abraham.

In 29:14 "(Noah) tarried among them a thousand years less fifty" can mean that Noah was with his people for 950 years, or that he was with them last 50 years from millennium, or even that he was with them for time of "thousand years" from view of prophet with Allah, so according to Koran (22:47) “one day" in Allah’s sight (as Noah was prophet and belongs with Allah), it can be only reason why this "less fifty" is said and not 950 years mentioned straight, so almost one day (if 50 means 5%, 95% from day,


if "fifty" means 50% then half day) trying to preach them (as according to Koran there is only few descriptions about his sayings, 29:18 "duty of the messenger is only to preach publicly", maybe after that day he began to build ark).

In 69:11 interpretiating "you" into mankind is only from Yusufali translation, it could be Noah, or more likely his offspring and so "you" could be addressed to prophet Mohammed who was also offspring of Abraham (so "you" in 69:12 is also maybe addressed to prophet Mohammed only). In 71:25 Allah spoke about certain people of Noah mentioned in aya´s 1, 7 and in 23 with their gods.

Notice, in 11:46 Allah told for His prophet that he is "acting like ignorant" despite counseling of Him, so was Prophet Noah sinless? In 71:26 Noah requested that no single one of unbelievers would be left on earth, but Allah gave no answer to that.

18:8 "Verily what is on earth we shall make but as dust and dry soil (without growth or herbage)."

This final drought will be reality at least when sun makes this planet too hot for anything to survive, but scientists also say that if oceans warm too much, methane on bottom of oceans will rise to atmosphere, causing greenhouse-effect that will eventually in time make earth hot like sauna.

99:1-2 "When the earth is shaken to her (utmost) convulsion, and the earth throws up her burdens (from within),"

This also demonstrates that earth is not flat, and it describes maybe earth either crashing with other planet (moon?) or being swallowed by the sun and teared apart by huge gravity, both in distant future, or perhaps it told us use of such terrible weapon that earth will literally burst its inside into space (into orbit, if gravity is not lost).

Posted by moon2/koran at 3:46 PM EEST
Updated: Wednesday, 28 September 2005 5:44 PM EEST
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To make it clear in the beginning, it is only interpretation that other nations but Jews did not have prophets from times of Moses to times of Jesus. When in Quran Allah state that He favoured the Bani Isra'il over other peoples (of that time), it can mean also that only among Jews monotheistic religion (that were not astray over acceptable limits and compared to demands of that time) gained power over other religions. About claims that Alexander was pagan and not upright as described by Islam: History have errors, but Islam gives permission to even pretend to leave/forsake Islam, if forced, to “hide deen”. Sin goes to one who has forced. If one WANT´S to do good thing (to be Muslim), it is counted as so (hadith). So Alexander had to pretend he was pagan because otherwise he would not have got to power (to foreshadow Islam, like Jesus, even as warning example what can happen when people go astray, but in case of Alexander without certain knowledge of prophet-position, for judgment of destined to be pagans it had no affect anyway), and he would have not accomplished his mission (to unite Hellenistic and Asian cultures, to make road for Christianity/Islam). Jesus had to go along with "son of God" thing, because in Jews scriptures (Old Testament) almost all prophets are called (even by God) as so, and Jews expected that from all who claimed to be prophets. But "son of God" was FIGURE OF SPEECH in Hebrew, it means very important person for God (usually prophet). Jesus also wanted by “father” to make distinction to Jewish God, as he knew God is Allah, so that people would not fight because of His name. Interpretations from hadith´s tell us that “Gog and Magog” should come around time of Jesus, but what if Jesus in second coming will tell who they really were, bringing them so back from forgotten people, into “same time” to public debate, revealing even biggest mystery in Quran?

83. They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain [or Dhul-qarnain]. Say, 'I will rehearse to you something of his story.'
84. Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends. 85. One (such) way he followed, 86. Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: 'O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.'
87. He said: 'Whoever doth wrong, him shall we punish; then shall he be sent back to his Lord; and He will punish him with a punishment unheard-of (before).
88. But whoever believes, and works righteousness,- he shall have a goodly reward, and easy will be his task as We order it by our Command.' 89. Then followed he (another) way, 90. Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.
91. (He left them) as they were: We completely understood what was before him. 92. Then followed he (another) way,
93. Until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them, a people who scarcely understood a word. 94. They said: 'O Zul-qarnain! the Gog and Magog (People) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them?'
95. He said: '(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): Help me therefore with strength (and labour): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them:
96. Bring me blocks of iron.' At length, when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain-sides, He said, 'Blow (with your bellows)' Then, when he had made it (red) as fire, he said: 'Bring me, that I may pour over it, molten lead.' 97. Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it. 98. He said: 'This is a mercy from my Lord: But when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, He will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true.'

18:86 Is not description to take literally (as Koran has those in other places too), as sun can not even in anyone’s wildest dreams go from place were there is no hole in the ground (as all water in lake would go from it), and it is not said to pounce back to east from west. According to Islam, hadiths, sun goes from west to east only on Judgment Day, and it is sign from that Day (what even may have began, as sun goes from west to east in northest part of the world in summer time at night, and there is even Muslims now to prove it even though there is no Muslim-state in north, that is why signs are given so that as Muslims realize those, it is sign. Another way to see this sign is connected to part of Koran that says about two west and two east, Islam and Muslims have reached also Hawaii and sun there rises from western coast of America and will set on eastern coast of China).


To the west of the town of Lychnis is a lake 170 square miles in area, fed by underground springs that issue through limestone rocks and give out murky water. Both town and lake are now called Ochrida, about 50 miles west of Monastir. The water is so dark that the river which forms the outlet of the lake to the north is called the Black Drin. Looking at the sunset from the town, the observer would see the sun set a pool of murky water (18:86).

So these are (in one direction) borders of kingdom of Alexander. It was a question before the boy Alexander -- the dreamy, impulsive, fearless rider -- whether he would put the barbarous Illyrians to the sword or show them mercy. He showed true discrimination and statesmanship. He punished the guilty but showed kindness to the innocent, and thus consolidated his power in the west.

There is another reason too for Alexander of Macedonia to be Dhu-l-qarnain. In Arabian tradition Kings with vast empire were commonly known as Dhu-l-qarnain, in Yemen and Persia some kings were known to be Dhu-l-qarnain. Dhu-l-qarnain literately means ''Two horn one'' but in Arabic literature it also means time and era. If there was a king with vast empire spreading from east to west ruling long time, he will too be known as Dhu-l-qarnain.

18:90 Mentions people who Allah had not "offered protection from the sun", meaning people of Central-Asia where they live on plains and desert, where Alexander visited Bukhara and Samarkand. He did not went to conquest Central-Asia, but "left them as they were". So these are (in one direction) borders of kingdom of Alexander.

Then he arrived area 230 kilometers south-east from Bukhara, where he build Iron Gate to protect people who did not speak his language (Turkish) as protection against "Gog and Magog"-people (Mongols), between Transoxiana and Mongolia of that day. As Allah had promised, this gate was later destroyed in this narrow canyon. Yet on 7th century Chinese traveler and 985-986 Arabian traveler reported and wrote about this gate made of iron blocks. So these are (in one direction) borders of kingdom of Alexander, showing that “Gog and Magog” are Mongols and person here Alexander.

Another but less probably possibility could be Tiemen Pass (also called Iron Pass or Iron Gate Pass), only 8 kilometers north of Korla, lies at the mouth of a 14 kilometer (9 mile) long valley. It was of strategic importance in history in ancient China and is listed as one of the 26 famous Passes. Tiemen was at the throat of the Silk Road and the traffic junction between northern Xinjiang and southern Xinjiang. Nearby, there are still traces of an ancient barracks and military activities. But this is maybe only in case that there really has been (destroyed) iron gate and that Alexander visited so north in plains of Xinjiang or if Zul-qarnain is not Alexander the Great.

21:96-97 "Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier), and they swiftly swarm from every hill. Then will the true promise draw nigh (of fulfillment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay, we truly did wrong!"

Section 21:96-97 is from my view of point telling "Gog ja Magog" nations (as described in 18:93-96, Mongols) new destructive wave of attack, it does not describe future but is already happened prophecy from 1200- and 1300-centuries about everything destroying, killing all (Muslims) in the way from east to west coming Mongol invasion. All cities (including Baghdad) were destroyed completely, and from their (Muslim) inhabitants skulls were made towers and hills. This wave reached from Himalaya-mountains trough Centre-Asia, Afghanistan an Iran’s "all hills" (that area has A LOT because of differences in altitude) reaching all the way to Damascus (were before they were finally stopped) destroying Baghdad on the way, destroying completely Caliphate, symbol of Muslim prosperity and unity, even getting many (non-Muslims mostly) to believe that end of Islam is at hands. Mongols attacked also over hills of Ural (to Muslim-areas of Volga, who accepted Islam at 10th century before Mongol-invasion), until they finally after advancing long inside modern Russia- and Ukraine- areas accepted Islam as Koran informed and predicted. Just like Allah promised (/”prophesied”) in 96-97 (“Promise”: "Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay, we truly did wrong!"), they were terrified and on horror about destruction they had made (to Islam, their own and only right religion, its another wing in form of bird/angel were severely injured back then), and they spend long time and big efforts in trying to repair damage they had done, with for example prospering arts and other kind of cultural activities of Timurid-Empire, trying also to reach Islam for Russians by Golden Horde-state beyond Ural and Volga and unite Caliphate again. “Promise” in 96-97 might not be hell, as it is mentioned in 21:98 only, after these, it might not have any connection to “Gog and Magog” as in some other ayats it has no connection passages around it. Also connection might be that only some/many of them went to hell (by black plaque).

According to hadiths there is going to be more people in Gog and Magog than Muslims (now only followers of prophet Adam) put together: Mongols conquered China and most from Asia, before they attacked Islam, accepted Islam and stop attacks against Muslims. Perhaps Magog was Mongols and Gog rest of Asia they conquered (like China), or other way around. That was around 1200/1300, so there were only some tens of millions of Muslims, but in China alone (in Mongol rule) was hundreds of millions of people at that time. And remember that hadiths can contain errors, if there was hadith that "Gog and Magog" will have more people than offspring of (/or rightful followers [like Jews/Christians/Muslims] of prophets like) Adam all together (those could be only aliens), as some hadiths say they are from offspring of Adam. There is also hadith that Allah will cause them (Gog and Magog) to die to terrible disease, and then birds will carry their bodies (after eating them) out to the sea. In fact black-death plaque began in area of Mongolia at 14th century, at time when their power was in peak. It came through their territory in modern Russia/Kazakhstan (and other Central Asia) to shores of Black Sea, from where it arrived to Europe. It brought fast and certain death. And bodies eaten by scavengers might end to seas (in pieces), and all land will anyway someday be on sea, if remains end from birds to land and not at sea (and it could be about SOME bodies, not all of them). And hadith about arrows reaching sky (high enough=not to be seen) landing blooded (after hit) and idea of “winning heavens” (=Muslims/Allah, as they did not know that even they are doing will of Allah) fit. That was “last from them” as were said in hadith, no attacks on Muslims after that (“LAST we hear about” because Mongols also invaded Christian Europe in period of 400-500 AC). And remember that Mongols ruled (in Islamic world) from beginning of 1200-century (13th century) to end of 1400-century (15th century), and only little over last hundred years they were Muslims, so black death-plague in early half of 14th century killed many of them before they redempted and accepted Islam, bringing judgment for many.


"...The name (i.e., Gog and Magog) stands for wild and lawless tribes who will break their barriers and swarm through the earth. This will be one of the prognostications of the approaching Judgment."

Mohammed (puh) said that Mongols will come again (after times of Alexander and invasion in Europe on 400-500 AC), and that they will "swarm through the earth" as waves, as they did conquering most of biggest continent in the Earth, Asia (even China was conquered). In another hadith is said that it will be last from them, and (pagan) Mongols have not invaded anything after last time. Breaking through barrier can be coming (from view of Muslims, or Mecca/Medina) behind Great Wall of China (in west passage called “Iron gate”), or behind Iron Gate Alexander build (Transoxiana/Mongolia). Remember that "approaching Judgment" is not far away for Allah even in hundreds or thousands of years, Christians waited Jesus back in their life-time, and Muhammed told that distance from him to Judgment is short.

"Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: "The Prophet said 'The people will continue performing the Hajj and 'Umra to the Ka'ba even after the appearance of Gog and Magog.' Narrated Shu'ba extra: The Hour (Day of Judgment) will not be established till the Hajj (pilgrimage to the Mecca) is abandoned. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Pilgrimage (Hajj), Volume 2, Book 26, Number 663)"

Mongols did not advance to Mecca, that is why pilgrimages continued normally, in east people had even more reasons to get there from way of Mongols.

"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: "The Last Hour would not come until you fight with a people wearing shoes of hair and the Last Hour would not come until you fight with a people having small eyes and broad snub noses. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book Pertaining to the Turmoil and Portents of the Last Hour (Kitab Al-Fitan wa Ashrat As-Sa`ah), Book 041, Number 6958)"

Beginning of this prophecy has at least finally now come true, as soldiers "wearing shoes of hair" are now in Iraq, meaning shoe-lazes of their army boots (also Mongols had lot of hair in their boots). This does not mean that war should be continued or spread, peace should be made when offered as Islam requested. And it does not mean that "Hour" (Different time-section than) is yet any much closer than in times of Mongols, just "close".

"Abu Sa'id reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: "Allah, the High and Glorious, would say: O Adam I and he would say: At Thy service, at thy beck and call, O Lord, and the good is in Thy Hand. Allah would say: Bring forth the group of (the denizens of) Fire. He (Adam) would say: Who are the denizens of Hell? It would be said: They are out of every thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine. He (the Holy Prophet) said: It is at this juncture that every child would become white-haired and every pregnant woman would abort and you would see people in a state of intoxication, and they would not be in fact intoxicated but grievous will be the torment of Allah. He (the narrator) said: This had a very depressing effect upon them (upon the companions of the Holy Prophet) and they said: Messenger of Allah, who amongst us would be (that unfortunate) person (who would be doomed to Hell)? He said: Good tidings for you, Yajuj and Majuj (i.e., Gog and Magog in English) would be those thousands (who would be the denizens of Hell) and a person (selected for Paradise) would be amongst you. He (the narrator) further reported that he (the Messenger of Allah) again said: By Him in Whose Hand is thy life, I hope that you would constitute one-fourth of the inhabitants of Paradise. We extolled Allah and we glorified (Him). He (the Holy Prophet) again said: BY Him in Whose Hand is my life, I wish you would constitute one-third of the inhabitants of Paradise. We extolled Allah and Glorified (Him). He (the Holy Prophet) again said: By Him in Whose Hand is my life, I hope that you would constitute half of the inhabitants of Paradise. Your likeness among the people is the likeness of a white hair on the skin of a black ox or a strip on the foreleg of an donkey. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman), Book 001, Number 0430)"

According to this prophecy, only one out of thousand Mongol-invaders got to paradise (at least without going to hell first). Every (Mongol conquered area) child came "white-haired", because also their skulls were put into these (white) towers/hills to be burned by sun and sand. Pregnancies of woman’s were aborted understandably, as they all were killed. People were "in state of intoxication" either from fear or shock (Muslim-civilians), or either from hatred and lust for murdering (Mongols). Increasingly rising numbers of Muslims proportion in paradise means that it is open (in principle, even as determined, but not informed by declaration), hopefully high as possible. In any case Muslim is in this world (among of thousands of gods come to earth etc. worshipping religions) as easy to spot like "white hair in black donkey".

"Narrated Thauban: "The Prophet peace be upon him said: 'The nations shall gather and team up against you (i.e., Muslims) as the predators gather and team up against their preys. A questioner asked: 'Is it because of us being low in numbers at that day?' The Prophet replied: 'No, you that day shall be in great numbers, but you will be as powerless as the foam of the water on the surface of the river, and Allah shall remove any fear from your enemies toward you, and He shall put in your hearts a corruption.' A questioner asked: 'O Apostle of Allah, what is the corruption?' The Prophet replied: 'The love of life's amusements and the fear of death.' (Translation of Sunan Abu Dawud, The Book of Fierce Battles - The Gathering of all Nations against Islam, Book 37, Number 4297)"

In times of Mongol-invasions Muslims were suffering in all directions, enemy really came from all directions, "nations together". Half of Asia were attacking Muslims from east, Indians and Mongols (who controlled China also), from west there came enthuastic Christian-missionaries to "crusade" towards Jerusalem, Spain was pushing (all ready for centuries in "reconquista") like as in last days towards south, Granada, to get their hands on Muslim-maps of America (Granada surrendered on January 1492, Columbus found America in 12th of October 1492), just born in sub-Sahara huge Muslim-states of Mali and Songhai were neither so thrilled with southern pagan-states of Africans (which were surprisingly strong and big also), Russia started to wake up from Mongol-invasion. That means that almost all of Asia and Europe were (as crusades were hobby of whole continent as football now) and half of Africa non-Muslim areas (it was not much easier either on African east coast for Muslims) were attacking together against Muslims, "without fear".


Posted by moon2/koran at 3:44 PM EEST
Updated: Friday, 4 November 2005 2:12 PM EET
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Here is prophecy I personally thought some way to happen:

Book 005, Number 2208:
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour will not come before wealth becomes abundant and overflowing, so much so that a man takes Zakat out of his property and cannot find anyone to accept it from him and till the land of Arabia becomes meadows and rivers.
SAHIH MUSLIM, BOOK 25: The Book on General Behaviour (Kitab Al-Adab)

1.DESERTS GREEN? (Allah knows best)

If mankind is on earth during next ice age (signs from it already there, like Golf-stream slowing down 20% in last five years period, some scientist predict that Britain might have climate of Alaska in next 20 years), deserts of Arabs (Sahara+Middle-East) is going to be green, as they were during last ice age when black Africans inhabited even nowadays deserts of Libya. This has been mentioned in prophecy and hadith of prophet Mohammed (puh), as he said that "deserts of Arabs will once again be filled with rivers and gardens". Noticeably here is for example satellite pictures taken from Saudi-Arabian desert, In these pictures anyone can clearly see old river streams going under desert, and from there founded remains of gardens and agricultural activity. So Mohammed knew without proofs that during last ice age area was green, And so it will be during next ice age after change in climate and rainfalls. But this prophecy does not exclude possibility that humans themselves could make them green, as their actions would anyway be originated from Allah, and it could happen this way:

In Sahara there is these huge "pools", higher ground surrounded lower areas which are these huge "pools" on desert, that some has even big areas under sea-level in bottom of these "pools". These pools mostly are located very near coast-line, and with pumps and pipes of few hundred kilometers these "pools" could be filled with sea-water, until vaporizing (increasing while wideness of "pools" would expand) would match water flowing in, when surface of "pools" would stop rising and around them would be coming huge oasis’s (as sand filters salt from sea-water, when few meters from coast of these "pools" would be easy to get fresh water with dwells and pumps), and these oasis’s could reach kilometers inland as water travels far away in sand. For agricultural activities and inhabitation there would be huge areas to be used, these "pools" would be biggest lakes in the world.

But real meaning of these pools would be elsewhere, because vaporizing from those would be huge in world’s warmest areas with most heat radiation from sun (without clouds). Water-steam would for clouds filled with water, that would be going with major winds to south and east (for example as turned by coriolis-force) into mountains middle of Sahara and mountains west in Arabian peninsula, forming rains at least finally there. It would form rivers and lakes into area, from which there is obvious signs around mountains in middle of Sahara from past times (from last ice age, when Sahara was inhabited by black Africans).

Reason why these "pools" would change situation so radically is that air-masses rise to upper layers of atmosphere from equator, until arriving to north and coming down at 30´-line east-west (at coast of Libya/Egypt), and go from there as winds we notice to south and north, leaving winds going south without moisture from Mediterranean Sea, as winds going to north (Europe) will have all of it. So only way to get moisture to Sahara is to move water-masses from Mediterranean Sea to these "pools" under this 30´-line to vaporize (Mediterranean Sea will have water more through Gibraltar straits from Atlantic).

Only bad side this could have would be destruction of unhabited waste-land desert, when besides worthless deserts there would be lots of land suitable for agricultural and living use, providing living for millions of unemployment workers and people without land (believe me, deserts will be green as long as they get enough water, seeds for plants have come there by wind, in nature-document water was poured in top of dune and green plant rose from it, dying without water until it got more water and got back to life). Here would be huge opportunities for profits, buy worthless desert and change it for agricultural use, even possibly oil could be trilled from bottom of these pools and transported to coast by ships (cheaper than by trucks) or by underwater-pipes (no danger of sabotage). Also water pumping from under Libyan desert would get more fresh water below desert sand from these pools. These ideas can be expanded by even redirecting rivers just before it will end into oceans, so that fresh water of it will not be “wasted” but used to water deserts. Examples from this kind of possibility is end of Euphrates and Tigris, that could go through Kuwait and eastern Saudi-Arabia by channel to south on low lands. Another example could be rivers of Siberia turned to water Central-Asia instead of flowing to north, as global warming is reducing risk that Ice-Sea could be frozen without these rivers flowing into it.

2.ISLAMIC MANIFEST? (Allah knows best)

How would sound like successful society without need and poverty with prospering corporations and business, where one could get rich also by normal work? This is what prophecy of Mohammed told us above. I thought about ideal society, and realized where it could be done first: In Saudi-Arabia. Basics is oil, (In Saudi-Arabia about 80% of worlds oil reserves), so that system can be made running. Saudi-Arabia was able to offer each of its citizens "citizen’s salary" even at 1990´s, that was back then around 330 euro per citizen. Now oil prices have gone five or six times higher from that, so why not pursue for more?

What if government would pay for corporations and business-makers all products and services bought by citizens (in certain limits of reason perhaps in the beginning, maybe favoring domestic companies)? So every citizen would get basic living standards (basic commodities like food, clothes, medicine, education health care, etc..) completely free of charge, and car and apartment with certain limits from which more expensive part they should pay with money coming from their own work/business/investments/savings (for example apartments 1/citizen, car each 10 years, and if you want to buy more or more expensive going beyond limits agreed, then you need to make your own money for it or sell old ones in exchange).


This kind of explosive increase in spending (when nobody would need to think in shops what they can afford, just what they want and need) would get companies, employment and economics to prosper, and so on as people would not need to use even their smallest incomes into basic living, they would have change to invest by them selves (into foreign countries/domestically) or to found (even small bazaar) business that they could larger with even more investments and risks, as there would not be risk from total collapse of living standards even in case of bankruptcy (that would be unlikely due to higher domestic spending). There would neither be any "traps" preventing from taking jobs with lower salary, as all one could earn would be only plus (when staying only on social security could achieve only certain level of living without hope for better, but almost all people are so greed that they always want more). This way working would come REAL way to wealth and even for getting rich if salary is invested right. Founding business would be easy as government would pay expenses in the beginning.

Of course this system could be risked by some efforts to take use of this system, like that (foreign) companies would try to sell too expensively with rip-off prices increasing inflation (to regulate prices government could found own government businesses into all areas of economics, with 50% of shares distributed evenly to all citizens, and took government payment-guarantee from companies trying to exploit system, then ordinary people should favor state-companies getting some money back instead of government losing it, and they too through government/government-companies shares loosing, and favor other their favorite companies so that those selling with too high prices would be forced to lower their prices and not to lose governments payment-guarantee, when customers would have to pay from their favorite commodities/services from their own money, salary), until this system would expand even further to other countries (first to other oil-countries like Iraq and Libya). From these countries wealth and investments would spread by through totally welcomed workers from other countries (with their families), who would be given from (at least for quite regular) working same benefits, when they again could invest their money further (into own countries for example), increasing wealth there too.

Soon situation could be that state and people would have got so rich even only from their investments in shares and owning in foreign companies/lands, that state would make so much profit they would not have to stop system even when oil runs out, and so positive circle of investments and increased spending would go on. This system would work in political multiparty-system, where people would monitor state actions in putting recommended reasonable prices and policies in running people-owned business (if state would try to make prices too low, income from shares for people would suffer, and their other own/favorite privately owned businesses might end).

As a sign from "Judgment Day" is given also (in hadiths) that sun goes from west to east (and said that after that "no repentance will be accepted", from those who die in chosen state of non-Muslim or after abandoning Islam [twice], except "people without knowledge" who will not be punished from their sins according to Islam, mentioned for example in 16:25, 9:6 and also indirectly in 2.120 "...Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against Allah."), and that is exactly what it does in the north summer time as "midnight sun", when it does not even set on all days but can be seen over north pole on opposite side of earth whole night, going from west to east. Muslims have reached this north only recently (I, as local-born Finnish male accepting Islam from Rovaniemi, first known case in mosque, in 2003), and we have to remember that Koran and hadiths have been written and given for Muslims, so this is a new "sign" for Muslims (sign is sign only after somebody who it has been meant will see and understands it). Maybe new period of more demanding in people living north has began, as knowledge has reached also us. If it is a sign, it can also mean time when there is Muslim-dominant nation in the north (of midnight sun), perhaps in Siberia after oil runs out/comes obsolete and Russia has no use for this area, if they care to make a deal.

And when Koran says that on "Judgment Day" (different than "Judgment"? Same as "Hour"? Does Judgment come at some point of that "Day"? Length of that "Day"? Is Earth destroyed before universe on that "Day"?) Islam will be "only religion accepted", does it mean on the judgment or after some time limit (after beginning of "Judgment Day"-period, that could be period of prophet Jesus coming back and more challenging future for humans after his death, when Koran has been made easy to understand and accept after progress in science and information)? It means anyway (according to 3:85) that to be punished you have to "desire/seek other religion than Islam", meaning that you had opportunity to receive Islam (and compare its message for example founding’s on modern science, and found it proven as truth) but you did not, as Allah says in Koran that He will punish only those who have been given Islam but then refused it. Allah does not punish without warning, and that is why Allah says in Koran (Sura number 2) that "good People of the Book" (f.ex. Jews and Christians) will be saved (+in Islam also "people without knowledge"), because before 20th century opportunities even to read Koran translated into own language (if even knew how to read) were few. But now might be time when Jews and Christians should at least accept Islam, now when in 20th century lived more people than on all earlier centuries put together (in 21st century even quicker), Allah still would have spoken true if He meant by punishing non-believers (democratically) majority of them.

In Islam is prophecy that "light of Islam" will penetrate every land (/country) before Judgment. In Asia Islam has entered every country, even (communist North-) Korea has had numerous Korean Muslims as refugees in (northern) China for centuries. It has now done it also outside Asia and Africa (where refugees spread Islam), and through internet. Latin Americans have had prosperous Islamic history of Andalusia for hundreds of years in Spain, and Portugal, and after expulsion of Muslims (at same time when America were founded) there were small part of Muslims from slaves brought to America, and after that Iberians had to choose religion of the slaves to find Truth (in Cuba Muslims are even now prisoners in Guantamo-base of USA, that has been part of Cuba). In Latin America there is also possibility that Muslims found it first, as there has been found old Arabic writing (for example "Allah") from Brasilia, and signs in what Christians did to Indians in whole continent. Big sign for them is also that Catholism with its praying for saints is also closer to Hinduism than monotheism, Hindus just did not conquer another continents.


Posted by moon2/koran at 3:44 PM EEST
Updated: Friday, 28 October 2005 3:40 PM EEST
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CLOUDS: (Allah knows best)

24:43 "Seest thou not that Allah makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a heap? Then wilt thou see rain issue forth from their midst. And He sends down from the sky mountain masses (of clouds) wherein is hail: He strikes therewith whom He pleases and He turns it away from whom He pleases. The vivid flash of its (/those, hails and clouds) lightning nearly blinds the sight."

Cumulous-clouds are formed when wind drives smaller clouds together, and as they come together rain is formed. Also description about clouds as mountains on the sky is excellent, cumulous-clouds are size of from 4.7 to 5.7 miles (7-9 kilometers), totally size of biggest mountains (on earth). Biggest miracle here is that lightning’s are told to have origin in hails ("its lightning"), and modern science has found out that lightning’s are produced by effect of hails in clouds.

7:57 Says about (from water) "heavy" clouds that Allah lets move and rain down, over 300 000 tons of water is HEAVY. Also here and in 45:5 is spoken about winds as a sign, because only very fine and complex system prevents (other planets like) giant storms in earth when difference of temperature between poles and equator is over 120 degrees of Celsius.

30:48 Also describes mechanism how rain is produced, how clouds come together and from their midst comes rain. Not obvious things (clouds/hails/rains) in the Saudi-Arabian desert.

72:16 "If they (the Arabian pagans?) had (only) remained on the right way, We should certainly have bestowed on them rain (/water/stands for all kinds of blessings) in abundance."

Here is good question to think. Could it be that next ice-age would had come earlier if there had not been need for (spreading of) Islam? Anyway it would have come to Arabs as certain as it is coming to us for them also, were there Islam or not. Satellite pictures have found old places of rivers under Saudi-Arabian desert, so we know that in times of ice age climate is totally different there. This could also mean that if people in times of ice age had not gone astray, ice age would not have ended and deserts of Sahara and Arabia would still be green.

MOUNTAINS: (Allah knows best)

16:15 "And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and ways: that ye may guide yourselves."
78:7 "And the mountains as pegs"
79:32 "And the mountains had He firmly fixed."

Koran in Arabic’s gives more better describing word than "pegs", like pillars or hook of a tent. Shape of a mountain always has bigger mass under ground (like icebergs under water), and shape of mass going kilometers underground is like mountains upside down pointing to centre of earth. And where mountains are born, there continental plates are in collision, resulting as mountains forming between plates making collisions softer and reducing earthquakes (in numbers and Richter’s) a lot.

18:47 "And the day on which We will cause the mountains to pass away and you will see the earth a leveled plain and We will gather them and leave not any one of them (mountains) behind."
27:88 "And you see the mountains, you think them to be solid, and they shall pass away as the passing away of the cloud-- the handiwork of Allah Who has made every thing thoroughly; surely He is Aware of what you do."

We know that erosion will eventually level mountains to ground, our earth is still so young planet that it has not yet completely happened, in billion years it will look completely different in here.

69:14 "And the earth is moved, and its mountains, and they are crushed to powder at one stroke,-"
73:14 "One Day the earth and the mountains will be in violent commotion. And the mountains will be as a heap of sand poured out and flowing down."
19:90 "At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,"

In these three ayats is perfectly described effects of erosion by words like "powder" and "heap of sand poured out and flowing down". And in 69:14 is described even what will allow this erosion to level huge mountains which are growing from crashing of continental plates, with informing movement of continental plates (and mountains moving along above them) that will eventually lead into end of mountains growing, as continental plates moving under others are finally under them and there will be no more collapses forming mountains (other plates are moving away from each others towards huge oceans), when erosion will start to "kick in", in other words when erosion will consume mountains more than they grow. This "day" in 18:47 and 73:14 describes well how time is different for Allah, He is not tied into our time-system based on going around sun, and that "day" may also tell us about length of "Judgment Day" before judgment (or even be that "day").

Posted by moon2/koran at 3:43 PM EEST
Updated: Friday, 28 October 2005 3:48 PM EEST
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BODIES OF WATER: (Allah knows best)

55:19-20 "He has let free the two seas (/bodies of water) meeting together"
25:53 "It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: one palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition (that is not to be passed) (for water)."

World as a whole has two kind of waters, salt water in oceans and sweet water fed by rain.


When those meet (f.ex. at end of rivers Yangtse-Kiang, Amazon, Mississippi, Nile) they will not mix in amount of salt (even in tidal rivers with sea-water coming several kilometers up their estuaries at high tide, or fresh water of Amazon several kilometers from the coast), but are kept always (even by gravity) apart and distinct (even in difference of species of both). Also (even little) different kind of seas have this border, partition, where they meet with different amount of salt (like Atlantic Ocean and Mediterranean Ocean in Gibraltar Straits, or in Red Sea and Indian Ocean, and in Baltic Sea) and have unique species of animals (and stability in amount of salt).

24:40 "Or (the unbelievers´ state) is like the depths of darkness in a vast deep ocean, overwhelmed with waves (/layers/billow) topped by waves (/layers/billow), topped by (dark) clouds: depths of (layers of) darkness, one above another: if a man stretches out his hand, he can hardly see it! For any to whom Allah giveth not light, there is no light!"
13:16 "..Are the blind equal with those who see? Or the depths of darkness equal with light?.."

Darkness of seas is progressive, you have to go very deep to notice reflection of light, but in depth of 200 meters is almost total darkness. This is because different layers (by temperature, current and salt) of waves locate on certain depths (without mixing, above another), reflecting light with different way each. Even layer of clouds above waves reflect light increasing darkness, to know this (especially on desert without much clouds) you had to know that light is in form of rays, particles, which can reflect. And did Bedouin from desert dive into ocean 200 meters deep? He did not know how to read, did he know how to swim? Did he ever went to beach from Arabian inlands even?

13:17 "He sends down water from the skies, and the channels flow, each according to its measure.."
39:21 "Seest thou not that Allah sends down rain from the sky, and leads it through springs in the earth?

From where could have Bedouin from desert know about cycle of water? How did he knew that rains create rivers and springs from the earth (with pressure from above), why he does not say that springs are created by water from underground/rivers/ocean?

31:27 "And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing): for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom."

This part does not exclude other oceans, only mentions seven of them. It can also be romantic-like phrase maybe from worldview of people at that time, to get message through. Still we can notice seven larger bodies of water from oceans (word is same with sea), that are clearly limited by something. These are Pacific Ocean (Indonesia-America), Indian Ocean (southern Africa peninsula-Indonesia), Atlantic Ocean (America-Africa/Europe), Ice-Sea (Iceland/Greenland- Beringinstraits), Mediterranean Sea (Gibraltarstraits-Bosborstraits in Istanbul), Black Sea (Bosborstraits), and Baltic Sea (Copenhagen). Ocean around Antarctica is part of Indian-, Atlantic- or Pacific Oceans, depending which is north from location of part of it (because these are most biggest bodies of water, in south they do not need such straits to split them on different seas, only south-north line from southern capes of America, Africa and Australia). If Ice Sea is considered to be same sea with Atlantic-Ocean (because Iceland is not so clear border as beringinstraits is with Pacific Ocean and Ice Sea), then seventh sea would be Red Sea (different from Indian Ocean by straits between Africa and Yemen, highest salt-concentration from all seas). Caspian Sea is salt-lake, Persian Gulf is gulf (in Indian Ocean), and Caribbean Sea is not really clearly limited by straits from Atlantic Ocean, only with small islands (that way Ice Sea have to be counted as same sea with Atlantic).

ANIMALS: (Allah knows best)

16:66 "And verily in cattle there is A lesson for you. We give you to drink of what is inside their bodies, coming from a conjunction between the contents of the intestine and the blood, A milk pure and pleasant for those who drink it."

To understand the Qur'anic verse concerning the above concepts, it is important to know that chemical reactions occur in the intestines and that, from there, substances extracted from food pass into the blood stream via a complex system; sometimes by way of the liver, depending on their chemical nature. The blood transports them to all the organs of the body, among which are the milk-producing mammary glands. In simple terms, certain substances from the contents of the intestines enter into the vessels of the intestinal wall itself, and these substances are transported by the blood stream to the various organs.

39:6 "He created you (all) from a single person: then created, of like nature, his mate; and he sent down for you EIGHT head of cattle in pairs..."

In this ayat is told about eight kind of useful cattle-animals we have been given (if it does not inform how many animals were given to us to form basics of our breeding, which I doubt because it could then inform about 16 animals or 8 female and 8 male and not "heads", and we really can not be sure if this "sent down" would even mean that cattle has been brought here from other planets). One way to count them would be this:

1.Ox-animals (like cow or jacks), 2. Lamb and lamas, 3. Birds (like chicken, turkey or emus), 4. Camels (for milk), 5. Horses (for meat), 6. Fur-animals, 7.Deer-/reindeer-animals, 8. Pigs. Last, pigs, may not include here as Allah has not given for us permission to eat them (as neither dogs, both intelligent animals that should live free), instead of them could be fish, even though even raising fish in pools is called fish-farming.

Even camels and flies are mentioned as signs. 16:68-69 says about bees and their superior navigation skills, and about healing powers of honey, how it is good for health. Arabian horses were protected from mixing with other horse-breeds by order from prophet, and so they kept their special properties, like high amount of red blood-cells to help in strength, and prophet said that these horses have secrets in its belly and honor in their backs (fast Arabic conquest).


MATHEMATICS: (Allah knows best)

Let us end with mathematic codes that can be found from Koran. Islam or Koran does not tell to look for those, but clearly can be seen that those are there and that it also confirms as one more evidence (after Muslims ability to memorize it) that Koran has not been chanced even by a one word:
As example when Allah says in Koran that some things are alike, like that similitude of Jesus is same to Adam (3:59), He confirms it by mentioning both names 25 times in Koran. They were equally important, both had no father and Adam did not (at least according to bible) have even mother (should that make him bigger than Jesus for Christians?). When Allah makes difference (for better and worst) He mentions another word once less, like in "Borrowing" (money) is mentioned 8 times and (taking too much of) "interest" only 7 times. This goes on. One great miracle is hints for distribution of water and land, Koran mentions about "land" 13 times and "sea" 32 times, combined 45 times: when calculated 32 out of 45 is 71.111% and 13 out of 45 is 28.889%, and those numbers are exact distribution of sea and land on earth. Here are some few other examples:

Life/Life after death:115/115 Angels/Satans:88/88
Living/Dead:145/145 Man/Woman:24/24
Test/Giving thanks to Allah:75/75 Useful/Harmful:50/50
Loudly/Publicly:16/16 Brains/Light:49/49
Month/Day:12/365 Magic/(Some) things leading astray:60/60

It is interesting also to get to know prophecies of prophet (puh), there you can find for example (from 72 signs of Judgment Day) descriptions how (some) man will become woman’s and (some) woman’s will become man (like transvestites), and other human biology, behavior and character related prophecies. You can find description about drunks who cause lots of destruction on roads, Arabs had to wander what it meant, when camel-driver is drunken camel still goes straight.

Some more wonderful scientific and mathematic miracles of Koran (like calculation about speed of light found in Koran) can be found for example from

Koran (in Arabic’s) is like singing, its Suras each have different melodies and rhythms (through Arabic words and their order/places in Koran, pronouncing and dialect, even by pauses ordered to certain places and breathing techniques), from which you can notice even melodies and rhythms of modern music. It truly is greatest song in the world, and even many non-Muslim musicians have noticed it with respect (f.ex. song of Tenacious-D, Tribute, could well be made of it).

Very interesting is also fact that although Mohammed clearly tried to bend Arabian pagans, Jews and Christians to accept Islam, he still never tried to adopt or go with their views and writings/teachings/interpreting. From Islam can not be found world views or beliefs of Arabs or Bible (like flood that covered "whole world" that from there are no signs), but it says it will correct mistakes of those. And for example parts concerning creation in Koran goes in right order conformed by science, as in the Bible everything goes in wrong order, light before stars, sun before sky (/heaven/space), birds before land-animals. In fact even that is miracle that in Koran Allah says to have created us from nothing...

4:82 "Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy. "


Posted by moon2/koran at 3:42 PM EEST
Updated: Friday, 21 October 2005 1:04 PM EEST
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(These two "hidden prophecy" are connected to Luke.5:36-39, why new religion is necessary instead of change of old religions.)

1 "hour" = approx. 200 hundred years, from Abraham/Jacob 1800-1700 BC (and so Jewish-religion 1600 BC->) to Islam 632 AC = 2400 years / 12 hours = 200 years

Matt.20:1. "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner (God) who went (send prophets) out early in the morning (before "first hour" of 12 hours of day in Jewish calendar, so Abraham/Jacob 1800-1700 BC and Jews as a religion after them in "first hour" 1600-1400 BC) to hire men (believers) to work (for His glory) in his vineyard (Earth). 2. He agreed to pay them a denarius (paradise) for the day (world history) and sent them into his vineyard.

3. "About the third hour (1300/1200-1100 BC Sabians/Zarathustrians, even in Bible there is two "Sabians" in opposite directions, another possibly in South-Iraq) he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing (Judaism had not spread much outside their own Jewish nation). 4.He told them, 'You also (besides Judaism) go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' 5. So they went.

"He went out again about the sixth hour (600 BC beginning of prophesies about Messiah) and the ninth hour (around 1 AC Jesus were born) and did the same thing (created Christians and Christianity, notice simple description as Jesus is speaking about religion most connected to himself).

6. ABOUT (not exactly 400-600 AC) the eleventh hour (Prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him: 570-632 AC) he went out (send prophet) and found still others (Arabs) standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing (Arabs had not had religions through prophets, only polytheism-paganism)?'

7. " 'Because no one has hired us (Arabs were so despised that even Byzantium or Persia did not want to conquer and convert them),' they answered."He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.'

8. "When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages (what they deserve), beginning with the last ones hired (Muslims) and going on to the first (Jews).'

9. "The workers (Muslims) who were hired about the eleventh hour (500-700 AC) came and each received a denarius. 10. So when those came who were hired first (Jews), they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner (God). 12. 'These men who were hired last (Muslims) worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day (persecutions, slavery, occupations).'

13. "But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14. Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous (you want to keep God for your nation only, as a "chosen people")?'

16. "So the last (Muslims) will be first, and the first (Jews) will be last."

[Prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him, said that even though he was last of prophets, and Muslims are last of believers, they will be first to enter paradise, "last will be first"]


1 "year" = approx. 600 years, from Abraham / Jacob 1800/1700 (and so later Jews) to Islam 632 AC = 2400 years / 4 "year" = 600 years

Luke.13:6. Then he told this parable: "A master (God) had a fig tree (symbol of Israel in Bible), planted in his vineyard (Earth), and he went to look for fruit (results) on it, but did not find any. 7. So he said to the man (Jesus) who took care of the vineyard (Judaism "only true religion"/least corrupted religion in the world in times of Jesus), 'For three (3*600 = 1800) years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil (why not to do better religion)?'

8. " 'Sir,' the man replied, 'leave it alone for one (1*600) more year(s), and I'll dig around it and fertilize it (make world ready for Islam, also in Middle-East, "around" Israel as in [Christian] Arabia/Egypt/Syria). 9. If it bears fruit next year (in 600 years), fine! If not, then cut it down (Judaism and so also its sect/branch Christianity, from way of Islam, after that “year”, 600 years, passed after Jesus to death of Mohammed, pbuh, almost excactly 600 years later in 632AC).' "


There is no mentioning if workers came in what part of each "hour"

("about") 11th = 400-600 AC, Islam 570-632AC (to beginning of 12th)
10th = 200-400 AC
9th = 1 AC-200 AC (Christianity 32 AC ->)
8th = 200 BC- 1 AD
7th = 400 BC-200 BC
6th = 600 BC-400 BC (Messiah prophesied)
5th = 800 BC-600 BC
4th = 1000 BC- 800 BC
3th = 1200-1000 BC (Sabians / Zarathustrians)
2nd = 1400 BC-1200 BC
1st = 1600 BC-1400 BC (Early Jews)
"0-hour" = 1800 BC-1600 BC. ("Early in the morning he went", not actually INSIDE first hour, Jewish religion was practically born only after Jacob etc. in 1600 BC-1400 BC)

Well, Jesus did not go to practice math in schools. This is not math-exam, but for people to understand some idea. And maybe he being just a human, who makes errors and has somewhat limited knowledge, is reason also to why there is least "error-marginale" (+ - inside 200 years) in places of parallel connected to himself and Christianity.


Maybe Israel AS AN OFFICIAL STATE (eventhough part of Rome and so not state) was "cut down" 70 AC, but Jewish religion and its sect Christianity did not "expire" as a (right) religions before Islam came 600 years after Jesus (Jesus 32 AC - Mohammed 632 AC) from point of Islam. Israel itself as a state have no importance for God without its religion, do you Christians agree that from Bible?

Israel (that "tree") is not subject anymore after its cutting down (in 600 AC), but ground around it. "Ground around it" is symbol for spiritual, geological, historical and religious connection between semitistic Islamic and Jewish religions. But before it (before Islam, those last 600 years that were given extra-time) Jewish-tree has opportunity to grow fruits "next year". Obviously it did not do so as God created Islam. All that tree produced during that "year" (600 years) was form of Christianity that worshipped Jewish prophet as a god. From Jewish view those are not good fruits.

Could be said that after "Tree of Judaism was cut down" according to Jesus, he became only a prophet of Muslims, and so now he (with Bible) is kind of "mole/spy" of Islam in areas where Islam was not to be spread so much (as in India or China for example). All those areas are under "hidden" power of Islam through Jesus now (there is in hadiths prophecy of Mohammed, be be upon him, that he saw power of Islam stretching from west to east in the future).

More questions for Christians refusing this interpretation:

Some would say that verses in Matt.20:1-16 question actually point to divine generosity that transcends human ideas of fairness. Yes it can do that TOO (although first group complaining about payment because of extra-work and master getting furious about it does not really support it), but it is far more complex and long for that alone. It would have just be easy to say that master gives denar for workers, and that’s it.

Most popular Christian interpretation is that here Jesus told how disciples were hired in "early in the morning" and in "third" hour as apostles (it does not make sense at all, as all disciples were "hired" at once by Jesus, not in two time periods, and why would apostles be unhappy about later Christians entering also paradise, even before them, as they were one to convert them?), and that from "sixth" to "ninth" hour is about apostle Paul (again, why it would have been said to happen between these two time-periods, and not just in one?), and that in last hour is talked about all later Christians (who will come "first even though they were last", why would they enter paradise before apostles, and especially why would apostles go mad about them going one second before them into paradise, as all mentioned in parallel are saved anyway?).

Some say this Luke.13:6-9 is just numerical games. So tell me more reasonable and as compatible explanation. Fig tree is symbol of Judaism generally in Bible. Also when Jesus cursed fig tree in Matt.21:19 by words "may no fruit ever come from you again", he probably stated that no more prophets are going to come from Jews. And why time schedule fits so well in both of these religions, did Jesus not know about coming of Islam or did he not care how these will look?

More about Bible:

Luke.12:51-52 “Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.”

So house of Abraham is divided because of different beliefs on Jesus, mainly to 3 Christian religions (Orthodox, Catholics, Protestants) and to two Islamic religions (Sunni and Shiite). And it has NOT been denyed that these could battle even with other sects among themself, but most commonly conflicts have happened between Islam and Christianity.
Some Christians say this is about sacrifice inside real families (as in elsewhere there is used words as "mother against daughter") in case of "conversions" to another religions. Otherwise good explanation (in fact differences/similarities between "household" and f.ex. "daughter" can be seen to tell us that comparation between households and relationship with followers of other religions), but there has not been much such controversity and diversity in Christian-countries since emperor of Rome declared Christianity as only allowed religion. After that invaded areas in America, Africa and Asia have been efficiently converted, so giving protection for "converts" even from their own family. In modern secularism atheistics/traditional-believers usually could not care less if their child would like to celebrate (by singing etc.) Jesus. But in (now dominantly) Muslim-countries shift from Christian majority to Muslim majority took centuries, and so made accepting Islam very hard (even though only real dispute with Christians is position of Jesus, it might be reason why Jesus gave these words of comfort for those who are accepting Islam). Also "terrorism" and generally bad public image of Muslims has made even secular parents to panic if their children/partner finds Islam (yes, my mother too did so...).

Matt.12:26-27 Jesus told us that Islam can not be from satan, as it directs worshipping and bowing to God of Abraham, reason why satan fall from heaven, and so would never tell to do so. Even Jesus spoke about God of Abraham, “Father”, not about Jehovah for example. And “I am truth, way, and life” does not mean Jesus was god, but a prophet who taught TRUTH in monotheistic teaching about one God (f.ex. Mark.12:29 and Luke.4:8), who gave us WAY and example in worshipping on knees face to ground (Matt.26:39) and being totally submitting to God, and all this will give LIFE (comfort and paradise). All Muslims have to believe in Jesus TOO to be Muslim (Jesus said, no Muslim will be saved but through (ALSO) him (as trough all prophets).

Matt.21:43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”

As Jesus told (to ALL people who were there, so “Christians”, his followers, also, not just to priests who even might not be there then anymore, but left him after he answered theirs question much earlier), Jews (and its sect Christianity as it is based only to Jewish nation) lost kingdom of God when it was given to Arabs, ONE nation (Christianity is not based on other single nation but Jews).

More debate about this:

Here Jesus announced that He has been send to direct those few chosen (usually) Christians by Bible to Islam and eventually to Muslim-countries:

John.10:16 ”I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen (offspring of Ishmael, not Isaac-Jewish). I must bring them also (Jesus in Quran and monotheism/prophesies in Bible). They too will listen to my voice (same message), and there shall be one flock and one shepherd (monotheistic believers and prophets teaching about one God, now only Islam).”

Matt.18:12-14 “What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the MOUNTAINS and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. In the same way, my Father in heaven does not want one of these little children to be lost.”

Luke.15:4-7 “What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the DESERT (open pasture) and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbours, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost! I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. “

Here words (leaving other sheep’s at SAFELY HOME in) “MOUNTAINS” and “DESERT” describe general nature in Muslim-countries near Christian countries.

Some Christians may say that these are Christians who are "directed to home by death of Jesus", but here Jesus confirmed that if Christians (99+1 sheeps) are in "true religion", then he did not come for them in general, but for (future) Muslims (that +1):

Matt.9:12-13 “But when Jesus heard this, He said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are SICK. But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” Luke.9:56 “for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.”

So Jesus WAS (prophesied) king, Messiah, he divided Rome to east and west by religious differences (about power), Muslims got East Rome because of that, Byzantium. And he “sacrificed” for sake of both Muslims and Christians, but he did not need to make it to forgive all sins of mankind, but perhaps only in describing way (for example that all who will find Islam get to start with no sins again). If Europe, America and Africa had remind in paganism and with ruler-gods, persecution for Muslims would have been much worse than it was for Christians, who did not have such strict demand for total monotheism. With saints for example Christianity were able easily to be one to replace pagan-god´s in Europe (god was replaced by saint, holidays with Christian holidays), America and Africa, and so did bring them again closer to Islam (by Bible and prophets, even by nominal "monotheism"). In Africa f.ex. Islam did not make much advance in rainforests before colonial-time and Christianity, and many Africans accepted Islam even as a protest against colonial-powers.

12:39 "He answered, ´A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
40. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.´

Jesus was understood to be dead by all but God as he said that he will be "gone", so "dead" for disciples f.ex., and so came true prophecy about his "death" (human-view), and also words of Qur´an about him not dying into crusificsion by Jews (what Allah knows). So in fact Jesus gave for some part of people in the World "postponed"/"delayed" judgment as a "people without knowledge" (like illiterate people dictated by church and interpretations of priests about Bible, translations from Qur´an came for Christians mostly in modern times), until Islam and knowledge reached them too (f.ex. by internet and immigration, immigration of Muslims into Christian countries accepted also because even Jesus immigrated too and told to "invite others in").

There is reason for existence of Christianity, and there is reason why Jesus is coming back: To direct his "owns" back into Truth again. Over 50% of world population are either Christians or Muslims, and only real difference between them is about position of Jesus. In Africa 50% of population are Muslims, in Asia 33%, there lives most poor people, and even Jesus and Qur´an both told that some have their share in this life, and some in next life (and some in both). Could be said that after "Tree of Judaism was cut down" according to Jesus, he became only a prophet of Muslims, and so now he (with Bible) is kind of "mole/spy" of Islam in areas where Islam was not to be spread so much (as in India or China for example). All those areas are under "hidden" power of Islam through Jesus now (there is in hadiths prophecy of Mohammed, be be upon him, that he saw power of Islam stretching from west to east in the future).

Matt.22:45 “If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he (Jesus) be his son?"

Here only possibility could be that spirit of Jesus were born before David, and so Jesus was in “high rank” compared to David (Jesus is most mentioned prophet in Qur´an). Idea about Jesus being son of David, from descent of David, refutes idea about actual “son of God”, as if Jesus had no human father, then he did not have genetically background in David who was relative of Joseph. So why would God be his genetic father then, if even David was not? So Jesus confirmed evolution (see my writing in link "Human development / Evolution", and there about Jesus saying he was before Abraham), and that he is “son of God”, prophet, as Jews understood it (look at link "Jesus warned about Paul"), but not son of Allah...

More about Jesus, Paul, Bible (and also about science in Qur´an) in (each in its own link in right-hand side of page):


ISAIAH PROPHESIES CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM in Isa.7:5-6,13-17 earthquake killing 250 000 people in Christian Syria 526 AD+Islam Isa.9:1-6
These two prophesies describe both, Christianity and Islam, more religions themselves than prophets, and describe conditions when they appeared, and it is connected to Islam by earthquake in Syria 526 AC, that killed over 250 000 Christian Syrian’s, and by warm climate of time. Time of earthquake in prophecy is connected to time when Christianity was (most near to be) right religion before Islam came to direct into "choosing good and abandoning evil", as (most) Christians in Syria and elsewhere in Middle-East and north-Africa did, accepted Islam (in long period of time).

Then was over time when Immanuel (=Christianity, Immanuel="Lord with us", describing Christians who believe that God was with them on earth), so Christians, got to eat "curds and honey" (describing especially warm centuries before coming of Islam and easy faith without much expectations like regular praying) and came time when Christians had to choose between "choosing good and refusing evil" as Islam came. That is when easy salvation , for some without knowledge, even by worshipping Jesus as a god were to end, and more demanding times came.

10. Then the LORD spoke again to Ahaz, saying,
11. "Ask a sign for yourself from the LORD your God; make it deep as Sheol or high as heaven."

12. But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, nor will I test the LORD!"

13. Then he said, "Listen now, O house of David! Is it too slight a thing for you to try the patience of men, that you will try the patience of my God as well?

14. "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Immanuel is Christianity/Christians, "Lord with us" describes how Christians will believe, that God came to Earth among them. Nowadays Christians can not change this belief into any other form, as if they would deny that Jesus was not god, they should become Muslims. This is how Allah made sure that Christians believe like Quran describes and how prophesied even in Bible.

15. "He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good.

Warm and agriculturally plenty centuries were just before Islam, wine was grown even in Britain that time (besides description of few nuclear-winter’s in 6th century, when sun shined only couple of hours in a day, perhaps because of big meteor that hit Earth, it could be from words of Jesus how before end of times there will be "signs in the sky", just before coming of Mohammed who began "end of times", countdown for Judgment Day). Then when Islam came, about one third from Christians in world learned how to chose good and abandon evil, in Middle-East and in North-Africa.

16. "For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken.

So before Islam came and Christians learned to choose good, Syria (mentioned "land whose two kings you dread" in 7:5-6) and its lands were forsaken (in some translations "will come empty") when earthquake hit 526 AC and killed 250 000 Christian Syrians (almost total population of Syria that time).

17."The LORD will bring on you, on your people, and on your father's house such days as have never come since the day that Ephraim separated from Judah, the king of Assyria."

This could be again coming back in time to time just after Jesus, and this could describe for example destruction of Jerusalem by Romans (but also other same kind of events).



Birth and Reign of the Prince of Peace
1. But there shall be no gloom to her that was in anguish. In the former time he brought into contempt the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali; but in the latter time hath he made it glorious, by the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations.

"Zebulun and Naphtali" who were treated with contempt earlier is Arabia, these border areas of Israel describe areas beyond borders ("on the other side of Jordan"). Arabs were so despised that Byzantium or Persia did not even want to conquer it, or to convert them to their religion. "Way of the sea" is Red Sea and Persian Gulf surrounding holy places of Muslims, (temple of even Abraham in) Mecca and Medina, and also offering connecting short sea route between Mediterranean and Indian Ocean. "Other side of Jordan" is deserts of Arabs behind Jordan (Arabs have lived there centuries before Islam), confirming that Arabs are mentioned here.

2. The people who walk in darkness
Will see a great light;
Those who live in a dark land,
The light will shine on them.

"People who walk in darkness" is Arabic pagans, without monotheistic religion. "Light" is Islam and Word of Allah, "dark land" is waste lands in deserts.

3. You shall multiply the nation,
You shall increase their gladness;
They will be glad in Your presence
As with the gladness of harvest,
As men rejoice when they divide the spoil.

Nation of Arabs and lot of spoil to divide multiplied when Arabs conquered Middle-East and North-Africa. "Increase their gladness" is about Mohammed, as Jesus himself said that he has not come to brought peace bur sword.

4. For You shall break the yoke of their burden and the staff on their shoulders,
The rod of their oppressor, as at the battle of Midian.

"Break yoke of their burden" is sin that is abolished, Quran and Mohammed gave numerous complete instructions in hadiths what is wrong, and how to avoid it. Breaking "staff on their shoulders" is slavery, that was reduced dramatically because of Islam, as it encouraged Muslims to let slaves free (reward is better benefits in paradise). Breaking "rod of their oppressor" is destroying power of satan.

5. For every boot of the booted warrior in the battle tumult,
And cloak rolled in blood, will be for burning, fuel for the fire.

Islam brought centuries of peace into Middle-East (except crusades started by Christians) and to North-Africa, and peace is also what Islam means as a word. Overall Muslims have had (against each others especially) much less wars than Christians, and those few wars have been much less bloody than in Christian countries. Also Islam gave liberty and peace for many persecuted minority Christians in Byzantium, who were not accepted by official state church (as they refused to believe into trinity or into Jesus as god for example). Of course this can also describe how sins are wiped out from those who accepts Islam (bloody clothes are burned).

6. For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

As Jesus, also Mohammed (puh) were given to us, although in case of Jesus focus is much more in his birth. Government will rest on shoulders of Mohammed, and on Him who send Mohammed and ordered him to act and to do as he did, in founding of government. This is not about Jesus, he did not found government. "Wonderful Counsellor" describes amazing Quran and numerous hadiths, over two million of them, and amount of information on those for nearly all aspects of life. "Mighty God" and "Eternal Father" describes God of Islam, Allah (not Jesus-loves-you-all-god), from Whom Mohammed (and also Jesus) preached about, and how Allah will be eternity and will not change a bit . Prince of Peace is about Allah, Islam and Mohammed together, their common affect on world and about peace they brought.


7.Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.

"Kingdom that have no end in government and peace" and "reigned from David’s throne" (throne of religions of Abraham) is Islam that spread through THREE continents from Spain to China and India in under 100 years (compare to Matt.13:33 where Jesus told that "kingdom of heaven is like leaven, that woman took and hid in THREE pecks of flour, until it was all leavened"). "Justice and righteousness" is describing what Islam emphasizes very much in its doctrine. "That time and forever" is about Islam that will never change. Zeal (from Jews and Christians going astray) of Allah will accomplish this.

From this following passage in New Testament (Matt.4:13-17), that many will try to use to deny my interpretations, can be clearly seen that writer has interpretated himself that Jesus so fulfilled another prophecy, and twisted prophecy by fitting it into frames of this:

13. and leaving Nazareth, He came and settled in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the region of Zebulun and Naphtali.

14. This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet:

17. From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

First of all, these are not words of Jesus but later added prophecy by Isaiah fitted into visit of Jesus on area fitting into prophecy (in prophecy this border area of Israel is just describing areas beyond borders, lands of Arabs, not just lands of Zebulun/Naphtali exclusively, in fact Jesus were only near these areas for a LITTLE TIME).

In Isaiah prophecy were in future-form, here in past-form. According to Isaiah lands of Zebulun/Naphtali were "treated with contempt", and only LATER they will be given PERMANENT light (Jesus spend there only little time, Christianity little longer, but Islam is still there), so that whole land will come from dark into shining (describing deserts, which it came permanently only by Islam).

So would it not have to mean that these people on these lands did not accept Jesus and his message and so were kept in darkness, or that they started worshipping prophet as a god when they at least lost rest from their glory and were in contempt. In this case Islam was one to come to clean and purify that all.

Jesus himself did not require faith for “salvation through death on cross” even in Bible, it is invention of others (mainly Paul’s), although he recognized that those events have to come pass (even as fake crucifixion) because of its importance for world and in foreshadowing Islam to bring salvation closer to (otherwise) pagans who were not mentioned to receive Islam (until some time limit on some amount, which is going on now). Jesus even stated that he will be those three days like Jonah on stomach of whale, and Jonah was ALIVE inside whale.


Posted by moon2/koran at 3:40 PM EEST
Updated: Friday, 31 March 2006 2:54 PM EET
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Why did Jesus call false prophets as "wolf´s in sheep´s clothes"? Of course because they will be hard to spot, they claim to follow Jesus and act as supposed to, and their teachings do not appear to be (so badly) wrong. But it is not so much WHAT you teach, it is also HOW (and to WHOM) you teach it:

Notice how Jesus described false prophets as Paul described himself, by words (doing) “SIGNS” and “MIRACLES”:

Matt.24:23. “At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24. For false Christ’s and false prophets will appear and perform great SIGNS and MIRACLES to deceive even the elect (disciplines) - if that were possible. 25. See, I have told you ahead of time (told YOU, disciplines, as a warning). 26. "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' (Paul’s "Jesus revelation" on road to Damascus) do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' ("Jesus-revelation" in prison) do not believe it (Mohammed did not claim to have seen Jesus in desert/house, nor say to be Messiah/Christ, but Paul "prophesied" for example about persecutions of Christians in future, that were already reality and so not prophecy at all, and even claimed to be wittness to resurrection of Jesus, so God soon killed him as He promised to do in Deut.18:20-22 for ALL false prophets)….28. Wherever the corpse is (new religion), there the vultures will gather (satan strikes).”

2.Corinth.12:12. “When I was with you, I certainly gave you every proof that I am truly an apostle, sent to you by God himself. For I patiently did many SIGNS and wonders and MIRACLES among you.”

And if Jesus warned (in 24:23,26) about that "call" ("revelations" of Paul), about somebody claiming to have seen Jesus, WHY DID HE DO IT? And how can going to hell be depended on that, when Jesus warned about it?

Jesus HAD TO KNOW that revelation "there on the desert" (road to Damascus) and "here inside house" (Ananias, Paul in prison) will be understood as warning about Paul, as it fits totally into him (and to Ananias). Did not Jesus warn that even "ELECT", disciplines/apostles, are going to go astray? Who from history of Christianity could be more "ELECT" than them?

Why did not Jesus order to follow Paul, or why he did not clearly warned about Mohammed (pbuh), if there would have been need for that?

From Dead Sea scrolls of Qumran, it can be clearly seen that Deut.32:8 declared that Jews were not only nation to have prophets, as Christians and Jews claim, but that ”sons of God” have been given to numerous nations as Islam teaches. This is how this part went in Greek text:

"When the Most High assigned lands to the nations, when he divided up the human race, he established the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of (Qumran: ”sons of God”) angelic beings."

As in Dead Sea Scrolls, which read of the sons of God, and Greek version, which reads of the angels of god. Can word of God have so great conflict in matter so important, dividing religions? Problem really is in interpretations and understanding past times. Old Testament (Jewish) Bible is full of "sons of God" (son written with big first letter is Greek invention, as Hebrew does not have small or big letters), and so is called almost all prophets in Bible, even Adam (who had not even mother according to Bible, Koran does not deny even that he had mother/(HUMAN!)father, see beginning of astronomy/human development links and introduction). But times of persecution Matt.24:23-28 is talking about, came:

Thing is that it is FIGURE OF SPEECH for Jews, words describing someone very important for God (even Jesus himself answered accusations about using word "son of God" that "doesn’t your writings say: ´they were gods´?"). Adam, Jacob, Saul, David, Salomon, Jesus.... and many others, enough examples? Just write "son of god" into search engine on some Bible-site and you see. Jews understood that, as according to acts of apostles Jews allowed Christians to use synagogues even though they knew how Jesus was called, as Jews themselves have had prophets who were accepted by many other Jews but not by all. Jews never would have let Christians to worship Jesus as god in synagogue, so that is proof that early Christians thought him only as prophet. In fact EVERYTHING is figure of speech, as speech has only meanings that has been given for it. That is why in Islam Allah has 99 extra-names. He just shows that He makes us to call Him as He wishes. Jesus called Allah as "Father" because he wanted to make distinction between Jewish names of God and coming of Islam, to reduce conflicts on that. But situation changed:

As Paul had permission from apostles to teach pagans (Jesus himself said in Matt.15:24 that "I have not been sent but for lost sheep’s of house of Israel", and in the end mission-order meant "nations" of Israel, as there had been 13 of them), and had permission not to "bother" them by Torah or law, most pagan-Christians did not understand correctly "son of God"-term. After Jewish Christianity was almost totally wiped out by Romans in destruction of Jerusalem, pagan-Christians did came as dominant sect of Christianity and modern churches are based on their beliefs.

Paul tried to kill ALL Christians, he had army for that, but noticed that Christians just flew to other towns ("turn other cheek") and spread their message. So he understood that only possibility is to destroy threat to Judaism from inside, spreading twisted form of faith to large areas until it overcomes rest. He even send Ananias ("new Christian" according to Bible) before him to confirm his "revelations of Jesus" to another Christians, and so got credibility among Christians. That is evil. What gives more credibility to Paul than for example to Mormon-prophet Joseph Smith, who also claimed to have seen Jesus? Of course that was will of Allah too, but there is a time-limit until full responsibility is over People of the Book (Quran 2:62, and in 65:7 “Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him”.), that separates them from pagans who are not judged only if they are "people without knowledge (about Islam)", and have not be introduced to Islam (as it is almost everywhere in Asia and Africa introduced, but still lack of literacy and information, like internet, is limiting knowledge about Islam there, as it has arrived so to west especially).

Until (late) 20th century Koran was not even translated to most European languages, and there were only few Muslims in Europe. In Asia Islam has been for thousand years everywhere (33% population Muslims), but in China and Vietnam/Laos communism and relatively small/local Muslim-populations postpone knowledge about Islam and so full judgment on "pagans", in Africa (50% Muslims) nearly only rainforest and southern areas were animistic (now Christian) where Islam had not arrived. So in fact pagans have either knew about Islam, accept it or not and be judged, or not knew about it. Christians have always KNEW ABOUT ISLAM as it has been their rivalry and very close to them, but they have NOT KNOWN what ISLAM IS ABOUT (for People of the Book this matches same as total lack of knowledge for pagan).

When that time is up, and knowledge of Islam has come for everyone (like in internet), no Christian has no excuse why they did not learn about Islam, then curse of Paul has its full affect, and many are going to hell because of him. On the other hand, Jesus told about shepherd who got that one lost sheep out of hundred back to safety in desert/mountain (depends on evangelium, both describe very well dominative natural conditions in Muslim-countries), that represents those few chosen one’s from Christians who through Bible understood that Islam is right religion (like me), and possibly move to Islamic country in safety (no need anymore for that in secularism, but in middle ages definitely, if pagans had ruled in Europe/America/Africa, then not one had got alive into Muslim-world).

As you see, Christians can be accepting Islam through Bible, even if they thought that it is corrupted, if given good and accurate enough explanations and descriptions. Proofs against Paul as evil who messed Christianity is important.


Also remember Matt.5:17-20, there Jesus told that law will not change even a bit until heavens and earth will vanish, and that whoever will teach otherwise will be called "most least" in heavens (=by those on heaven), meaning lowest hell where he is.

Paul taught that law had end into Jesus, even though Jesus claimed exact opposite as you see from part above, Jesus did not claim to "fulfil law". Jesus did not even claim that for salvation belief into crucifixion is needed, and he did not even say it is going to happen for real or ask to call him "son of God". Paul even taught (Gal.5:2) that who is going to be circumcised, cannot be saved (although Jesus himself was circumcised and as a "god" did not order before his birth not to circumcise, to give an example).

Jesus even told that satan is thief, killer and liar and will never change (and that those who have killed even one of followers of Jesus are ALWAYS going to be astray), and Paul was all those, stealing crops of Jesus by killing and lying, Paul even claimed that he had witnessed resurrection of Jesus as his "gospel is witness for it". Jesus even told he was send only for "lost lambs of children of Israel", and told about people who will go beyond seas into far away lands to get even one convert, so that they can make him even more certainly food for fire of hell than what themselves already are, that sounds what Paul (and even modern missionaries) did.

Claims that he became good have no basics, as we see result of his plan, and can see how much his teachings were in contradiction against Jesus (even though he claimed to be in his work, best way to get trust), and especially as we can see how Jesus warned about Paul and how Paul did his "mission" to destroy Christianity that threatened Jewish-religion (Paul was fundamentalist Jew when he was killing Christians) from inside, and how he did that by using pagans that understood Christianity completely in different way than Jews who were thought by other apostles (in many ways with similar methods and teachings, even though some of it was affected by Paul into wrong direction). If you would be trying to get somebody astray from teachings of Jesus, would you try to twist and use those teachings for it, or would you try to deny those completely and try teaching something completely new?

Paul saw that Christians can not be killed even with army, they just flew into other towns and spread their faith, this realization is recorded in church-history too. Paul understood that Christianity can not be wiped out unless it will have competition (and as a "bonus", competition that is not danger to Judaism, as worshipping prophet as god is not). So Paul saw that game could be lost already in Middle-East, as Christianity were spreading among Jews.

What to do? Only threat to Christianity could be VERY SIMILAR religion, because much different would not be accepted easily, and so in fact would compete among many different religions (also Judaism), and so from different people (as certain people WANT TO believe into religion Jesus founded). So Jesus had to be in plan too (it was only bonus that Jews were against him).

What could be more powerful than Israel full of Christians? Of course pagan-Rome that is controlling it. Usually result in history when two powers and religions collide, is that more different religions, more difficulty will be to assimilate/convert that minority. And so usually more less-willing head of state is to do that, as in his interests is peace and stability more than uncertain attempt to try something that simply will not work, maybe only turn against itself. Roman Christianity (= head of state also head of church in Byzantium) finally had bloody persecutions for centuries against Christians who did not accept divinity of Jesus or trinity. Arabs conquered Middle-East and North-Africa so quickly because of these oppressed minorities, who did welcome Muslims as liberators.

Paul was both Jew and Roman citizen, even proud of it. He had saw what happens when two religions mix together in Rome (there was LOT religions in Rome), logical end for all this plan was to go make Roman-pagans Christians (Rome was hated among Jews, so less danger to Judaism, and Romans did not appreciate Jews to bother to know about their religion), Paul knew well that it will form totally new religion, especially if foundation of this new religion (Torah) is forbidden and lost.

Jesus also made sure (even because of pagans) what "son of God" meant when he told (Joh.20:17) for Maria Magdalena that he is going to his father, and to theirs (Maria, disciplines, etc.) father, to his God and theirs God, or when he answered Jews accusing him claiming to be god "does not your scriptures say: ´they were gods`", meaning that it was usual that Jewish prophets were called "sons of God". He also confirmed this all by saying that God has given life to him (John.6:57).

Here is evidence how Christianity were twisted very fast after Paul founded congregations among pagans, and how "trinity" began to have its form/birth, as pagans did not know (after Paul persuaded disciplines that they do not need to be "harassed" with Torah or laws) that "son of God" is meaning somebody important for God, notice how among disciplines and Jewish Christians there were not teachings anything like this, like among these Christians with pagan background (except little in "Letters of John" as some of this is from there, those letters had no known and certain authority, Paul could have written them even by himself and order them to be send):

Ignatius of Antioch

"To the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God" (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

"For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit" (ibid., 18:2).


Justin Martyr

"We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein" (First Apology 13:5–6 [A.D. 151]).

Theophilus of Antioch

"It is the attribute of God, of the most high and almighty and of the living God, not only to be everywhere, but also to see and hear all; for he can in no way be contained in a place. . . . The three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity: God, his Word, and his Wisdom" (To Autolycus 2:15 [A.D. 181]).


"For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit" (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).

And here is about most common "evidence" used by Christians about divinity of Jesus: Beginning from gospel of John is almost straight copy from text of Pthylo of Alexandria, Greek philosopher, who lived in 15 BC -30 AC. Only words "Word was God" is not in original text but in form "Word was God’s", that is in Greek small letter-error between two similar letters. Jesus even said that nobody (so certainly not disciplines he was talking to) has EVER heard voice of God or seen His face, and even though Jesus said that he is one with father, he also said that disciplines are one with him and God as well, so does Christians have 15 god’s? Also words of Jesus about nobody entering paradise but through him is true, according to Islam we have to believe ALL prophets to be saved, and in front of all prophets we will be on judgement. Jesus as being "way" (example of worshipping only one God, and being loyal servant of Him), "truth" (as Jesus teached about God and stated in Mark.12:29 "Hear o Israel: Your God is one God") and "life" (what you get when you do what Jesus, and also Mohammed pbuh said), is only again matter of interpretation. And if I say "I am who I am", it does not make me god!!!

Jesus himself did not say that for salvation is needed to believe into his death and resurrection through cross, or that it is required to believe into him as a god. Why would "god" not make that clear if that is most important thing? In Bible NOWHERE God said that all of the Bible is his Word, or that He will protect it from corruption, so should we count in our salvation especially for something that is not even mentioned there by Jesus/God himself? Would it not be QUITE big mistake, especially from view of Muslims, not to mention most important doctrine in religion (belief into resurrection/divinity of Jesus to be saved)???

As a small (kind of) joke in the end of all for all Christians: Christmas is for Christian shareing, and (Turkish) substitute of Jesus lives in village of Santa Claus in Rovaniemi, not in Rome. So why did not Jesus share salvation with all of the people, if he made himself to die for it, for forgiving all sins of all mankind? Why did he put stupid exception there, that one have to believe into a STUPID (not even any clear and undeniable evidence from Jesus himself) belief about Jewish prophet as a god to receive this "deed" Jesus did? Really, think about it, there is no sense of any kind...


Posted by moon2/koran at 3:39 PM EEST
Updated: Friday, 2 December 2005 3:52 PM EET
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Johannes Kastajan TODISTUKSESSA (John.1:19-27) juutalaiset kysyvät kirjoitustensa (ennustustensa ja kuvaustensa, joita oli selvästi KOLME erillistä) pohjalta Johannes kastajalta kolme kysymystä (sillä he odottivat vielä kolmea merkkihenkilöä) joihin hän vastasi kaikkiin KIELTÄVÄSTI:

1)Oletko Messias?
2)Oletko Elia?
3)Oletko SE luvattu profeetta?

Montako Jeesuksen jälkeen tullutta PROFEETTAA kristityt tietävät? Paavali ei ollut profeetta eikä edes väittänyt niin, sillä hän tiesi hyvin että olisi "kärähtänyt" ja hänen varsinainen tehtävänsä, kristittyjen harhauttaminen, olisi vaarantunut.

John.1:21 kohdassa kysyttyyn "Oletko se luvattu profeetta?"-kohtaan on sivun alalaidassa "linkki" VT:n 5.Moos 18:15-22 ennustukseen profeetasta jota kaikkien on kuultava tai Jumala "vaatii hänet itse tilille", mikä selvästi tarkoittaa VIIMEISTÄ profeettaa koska juuri HÄNEN hylkäämisestään Jumala vaatii tilille (katolilaisten Raamatussa sanotaan Jumalan KOSTAVAN sille kuka ei häntä kuule), kohta menee näin, jaoin sen kolmeen "aihealueeseen" (laitoin sulkeisiin selventämään eri kohtien tarkoitusta):

(5.Moos.18:15-22) 15."Herra, teidän Jumalanne, antaa veljienne (Ishmaelin kautta Kedarin arabit) joukosta nousta profeetan, joka on minun (Mooses) kaltaiseni (valtion päämies+profeetta). Häntä teidän tulee kuunnella... 18. Siksi minä (Jumala) annan heidän omien(?->eng. Raamatussa ei lue "omien"..) jälkeläistensä joukosta nousta profeetan, joka on sinun (Mooses) kaltaisesi; minä panen Sanani (Koraani) hänen suuhunsa, ja profeetta puhuu (resitoi) kaiken, minkä minä hänen puhuttavakseen annan. Jos joku ei kuuntele niitä sanoja, jotka hän minun nimissäni (Suurat ja muslimit aloittavat "Armollisen Jumalan nimeen..") puhuu, minä itse vaadin tilille sen miehen."

"20.JOS TAAS JOKU PROFEETTA JULKEAA MINUN NIMISSÄNI PUHUA SELLAISTA, MITÄ MINÄ EN OLE KÄSKENYT HÄNEN PUHUA, TAI PUHUU VIERAIDEN JUMALIEN NIMISSÄ, HÄNEN ON KUOLTAVA (Muhammed sai 23 vuoden tehtävänsä täydelliseen päätökseen ja koko arabian yhdistettyä ja hyväksymään Islamin, viimeinen Koraanin kohta "Tänään Minä olen täydellistänyt uskonne.." tuli juuri ennen hänen kuolemaansa)."

"21. Jos alatte kysellä mielessänne, mistä tiedätte, mikä sana ei ole lähtöisin Herralta, muistakaa tämä: Jos se, mitä profeetta puhuu Herran nimissä, ei toteudu, se ei ole Herran sanaa vaan väärän profeetan röyhkeää puhetta, älkää kuulko häntä." (eli ettei väärän profeetan ennustuksista YKSIKÄÄN toteudu, Koraanin ja Muhammedin ennustuksista ovat toteutuneet KAIKKI jotka ovat ajallisesti katsoen jo voineet toteutua)

Kristityt sanovat tämän SELVÄSTI VIIMEISTÄ profeettaa (koska Jumala vaatii tilille sen joka ei häntä kuuntele) kuvaavan ennustuksen tarkoittavan Jeesusta, minkä kumoaa täysin se että profeetta on KUIN Mooses (eli aluksi kansansa hylkäämä ja lopuksi hyväksymä valtionpäämies-profeetta, Jeesusta juutalaiset eivät ole hyväksyneet vieläkään profeetaksi, eikä Mooses ollut syntynyt neitsyestä eikä varsinkaan ollut "jumala"!!!). Lisäksi "Minä panen Sanani hänen suuhunsa" ei viittaa Jeesukseen koska hän ei kirjoittanut ainuttakaan sanaa evankeliumiin (eikä resitoinut), vaan ne ovat vasta kauan hänen kuolemansa jälkeen MUISTISTA kaivettuja MAHDOLLISESTI Jeesuksen (siis ei välttämättä täysin kirjaimelleen niin kuin kirjoitettu) sanontoja. Mikä sitten on OIKEAN SANAN mitta? Se on virheettömästi kirjoitettuna ja säilöttynä, jolloin siitä ei ole tullut IHMISEN sanaa.

Toisekseen kyseinen ennustus vie pois mahdollisuuden että Muhammed olisi väärä profeetta, sillä hänen ennustuksensa toteutuivat KAIKKI, ja Jumala otti hänet luokseen vasta kun viimeinenkin Koraanin säe oli tullut ja koko arabia yhdistetty ja saatu hyväksymään Islam juuri ennen Muhammedin 23 vuotta kestäneen tehtävän loppua. Lisäksi Muhammed puhui koko 23 vuoden ajan Aabrahamin Jumalan nimissä (ja VAIKUTTAVASTI puhuikin!) sekä taisteli lukuisia itsepuolustus-sotia joissa Jumala olisi voinut "lunastaa lupauksensa" ja tappaa hänet tuon ennustuksen mukaisesti. Jos joku väittää ettei Muhammed puhunut Aabrahamin Jumalan nimissä, tuossa ennustuksessa Jumala lupaa tappaa myös vieraiden jumalien nimissä puhuvat, eli se siitäkin väitteestä.

Jeesus sanoo vielä Matt.21:43 ”Tämän takia minä sanon teille, että Jumalan valtakunta otetaan teiltä pois ja annetaan kansalle joka tekee sen hedelmiä.” (Huomaa että ”kansa” on yksikössä, juutalaisuuden lisäksi kr.usko ei perustunut yhteen kansaan, Islam perustui täysin arabeihin.)

Mutta kuten Jeesus sen Raamatussa sanoi (Matt.13:13): "..he näkevät mutta eivät näe, ja kuulevat mutta eivät kuule, eivätkä he ymmärrä."

Posted by moon2/koran at 3:37 PM EEST
Updated: Wednesday, 28 September 2005 5:18 PM EEST
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Mitä jos kristityt olisivat taistelleet vainoissa, ja Rooma olisi koventanut niitä moninkertaisesti, ja koko kr.usko tuhottu?
Mikä oli siis Jeesuksen ja kr.uskon todellinen tarkoitus Jumalan suunnitelmassa? Sanoihan Jeesus (Matt.20:28) "Ei Ihmisen poikakaan tullut palveltavaksi, vaan palvelemaan ja antamaan henkensä lunnaiksi kaikkien puolesta". Islamin mukaan Jeesus oli viimeinen juutalaisille lähetetty profeetta, ennustettu "juutalaisten kuningas" (odotettu Messias, Kristus, joita nimityksiä myös Islam käyttää Jeesuksesta, Jeesus myös sanoi Raamatussa Matt.15:24 "minua ei ole lähetetty kuin Israelin kansan kadonneita lampaita varten"). Käytännössä vain Jeesuksen OMIEN sanojen (=Islamin mukaan evankeliumi) tulkinnassa muslimit eroavat kristityistä (Paavalilla ja yleensäkin muilla kuin profeetoilla ei Islamin mukaan kykyä/lupaa luoda oppeja, varsinkaan Jeesuksen/Jumalan opetuksen vastaisia), Jeesushan mm. sanoi (mm. Matt.9:12) etteivät hurskaat/terveet tarvitse parantajaa, vaan sairaat, ja tämän muslimi voi tulkita tarkoittavan että Jeesus toi Aabrahamin Jumalan ja profeetat sekä Raamatun (todisteineen Islamista) sinne minne Islamin ei ollut tarkoituskaan levitä pääuskonnoksi tai edes suureksi vähemmistöksi (Koraanissa sanotaan mm. että muslimit ovat "keskellä", sanalla monta merkitystä arabiaksi), sanoihan Jeesus myös (John. 10:16 "minulla on myös muita lampaita, sellaisia, jotka eivät ole tästä tarhasta (ei Iisakin, vaan Ishmaelin ”jälkeläisiä”, muslimit) ja niitäkin minun tulee paimentaa. Ne kuulevat minun ääneni, ja niin on oleva yksi (Aabrahamin) lauma ja yksi paimen (Allah, Jumala)”.

Luuk.9:50 ”Joka ei ole teitä vastaan, on teidän puolellanne.”
Koraani 8:30 ”He juonittelevat ja suunnittelevat, Allah myös suunnittelee, mutta on paras suunnittelijoista.”

Pitää huomioida että yhteensä Aabrahamin Jumalan uskonnot (juutalaisuus, kr.usko, Islam) muodostavat yli 50% maailman väestöstä, ja ovat kaikissa maissa Japania lukuunottamatta vähintään 5% suuruinen osa kansasta viimeistään yhdessä, Islamin ollessa vähintään 10% suuruinen uskonto valtioissa joissa asuu yli 75% maailman ihmisistä (siellä lähes kaikkialle levinneenä). Mielestäni on typerää uskoa ettei Jumala kelpuuttaisi Aabrahamin Jumalalle suunnattuja rukouksia muslimeilta (joiden profeetta täyttää kirkkaasti Raamatun VT:n asettamat profeetan kriteerit ja on Aabrahamin esikois-pojan Ishmaelin sukua), jos kerran juutalaisten profeetaksi hyväksymä Johannes Kastaja opetti (Matt.3:9-10) "Älkää luulko että voitte ajatella: `Olemmehan me Aabrahamin lapsia`. Minä sanon teille: Jumala pystyy herättämään Aabrahamille lapsia vaikka näistä kivistä. Kirves on jo pantu (juutalaisuuden ja sen lahkon kr.uskon) puun juurelle. Jokainen puu, joka ei tee hyvää hedelmää, kaadetaan ja heitetään tuleen", ja vaikka juutalaisten profeettana hylkäämä Jeesus (ja täten hylänneet myös kristityt "Aabrahamin lapsina") opetti ihan samoin ja lisäksi (Matt.12:26) "Jos Saatana ajaa ulos Saatanan, silloin se on noussut itseään vastaan" (eli Aabrahamin Jumalaa palvelemaan käskevä Islam ei ainakaan ole Saatanasta). Siis juutalaiset hylkäävät muslimit ja kristityt Aabrahamin Jumalan lapsina, kristityt juutalaiset ja muslimit, kun todellisuudessa kaikki olemme Aabrahamin Jumalan lapsia. Islamin mukaan Allah asettaa ihmiset hänelle oikeaan paikkaan, aikaan ja elämään jossa saatu kasvatus ja ympäristö määräävät lapsen uskon (Matt.20:23 "...mutta minä en määrää siitä, kuka istuu oikealla ja kuka vasemmalla puolellani. Ne paikat ovat niille joille Isäni on ne tarkoittanut"), eikö ole aika loogista että saman uskoiset sijoitetaan samoihin yhteisöihin jotta läheisten kohtalosta murehtiminen olisi pienintä (niiden harvojen Islamin löytäneiden ollessa Jeesuksen vertauksen sadasta lampaasta se yksi eksynyt, jonka "paimen" hakee turvaan "vuorelle/aavikolle" eli Islamilaiseen maahan johon Koraani kehoittaa muslimeita muuttamaan jos tulee hankaluuksia uskonnon noudattamisessa), ja onhan Hänellä pelkästään siittiöissä satoja miljoonia vaihtoehtoja minkälaisen ihmisen luoda. Miten erilainen maailma olisi ilman tätä, siis kr.uskon vaikutusta? Kuvitellaanpa yksi mahdollinen historian kulun vaihtoehto (nykyisen Allahin luoman ylivertaisuuden ja tasapainon huomaamiseksi)….

Luuk.9:56 ”Ihmisen Poika ei tullut ihmisten sieluja kadottamaan, vaan pelastamaan.”
Juutalaisten diaspora olisi tod.näk. tapahtunut ja Jerusalem/Palestiina tuhottu, vaikka varmasti silloin vielä hyvin pienellä kristittyjen joukolla oli (pieni) vaikutuksensa tapahtumien kulussa. Tietenkin voi olla myös että sitä ei olisi tapahtunut ja juutalaiset jääneet palestiinaan, mikä ei olisi oleellisesti vaikuttanut historiaan juutalaisten pienen määrän takia (koska mm. rahamaailmassa ilman kirkkoa korollisen lainan antaminen tuskin olisi tullut kielletykseksi, jolloin juutalaisten todellisessa historiassa ollut asema lännen/katolisen kirkon kilpailijana/haastajana ei olisi ollut tarpeen).Rooman valtakunta ei olisi ajautunut niin räikeisiin, verisiin ja sitä sisäisesti repineisiin ja rapauttaneisiin (uskonnollisiin) vainoihin lähes koko Rooman kansan iloisesti hyväksyessä keisarin palvonnan vaihtoehtoisten uskontojen (jopa juutalaisten) puuttuessa. Rooma siis ei olisi heikentynyt niin vahvasti kuin se teki, sen voimahan oli juuri aikaisemmin ollut suvaitsevaisuus eri kieliä, kulttuureja ja uskontoja kohtaan (jotka myöntyivät keisarin palvontaan myös), mikä piti valtakunnan yhtenäisenä (kristittyjen alle 10% osuus väestöstä vielä 300-luvulla oli kuitenkin huomattava, ja vähemmistö-asemastaan huolimatta kr.uskosta tuli ainoa sallittu uskonto). Rooman valtakunta olisi voinut jopa pysyä yhtenäisenä laajoine rajoineen jopa Islamin tuloon asti, mikä olisi huomattavan hyvin estänyt Islamin leviämistä P-Afrikan, L-Idän ja Turkin/Euroopan alueella (varsinkin jos keisari-jumala olisi kokenut sen kilpailijana, tai pakanat muuten vaan pitäneet Islamia ”uhkaavana” heitä kohtaan).

Oletetaan kuitenkin että Byzantiumin (ent. Konstantinopol, nykyinen Istanbul) kaupungista olisi tehty Rooman valtakunnan pääkaupunki (kuten siitä tehtiin myös oikeasti jo ennen Constantinuksen valintaa kr.uskon suhteen, prosessi oli alkanut jo häntä edeltäneen keisarin aikana). Siis YHTENÄISEN Rooman pääkaupungiksi tuli Byzantium alkaen kehittymään kaupan ja hallinnon keskukseksi kuten oikeastikin. Hunnien aiheuttama kansainvaellus (300- ja 400-luvuilla) idästä olisi päätynyt kuten oikeastikin, ja Länsi-Rooman osat olisivat saaneet uuden väestönosan mm. gooteista. He olisivat mitä ilmeisimmin omaksuneet omaansa reilusti ylemmän ja kehittyneemmän roomalaisen kulttuurin ja paikalliset uskomukset (kuten kävi oikeastikin). Tietenkin on pieni mahdollisuus sillekin, että ilman ”käännä poski”- sääntöä pakanat olisivat taistelleet tunkeilijoita (ehkä hunnejakin) vastaan paljon hanakammin, kenties pitäneet heidät jopa poissa, varsinkin jos Rooma olisi pysynyt yhtenäisenä.
Kirkon puuttuessa sen valtapoliittiset riidat ja uskonnolliset tulkinnat eivät olisi jakaneet Rooman valtakuntaa keisari-johtoiseen Itä-Roomaan ja kirkon johtamaan Länsi-Rooman, vaan se olisi säilynyt yhtenäisenä (Byzantium uutena pääkaupunkinaan), vaikka voimalla. Sitten syntyisikin Islam (joka tietenkin oikeasti on yhteydessä myös kr.uskoonkin), ja oikeasti sen räjähdysmäisen nopea leviäminen selittyikin paljolti sillä että (kirkolliskokouksien) Jeesuksen jumaluuden ja kolminaisuus-opin hylänneet kristityt (joiden uskossa oli paino sillä että Jumala oli luonut ja lähettänyt Jeesuksen, aivan kuten aerolaisilla germaaneilla ennen frankkien kuninkaan kääntymistä katolilaisuuteen ja pakkokäännytystä katolilaisuuteen) olivat todellisuudessa (varsinkin Bysantin keisari-johtoisen) valtiokirkon verisien vainojen kohteena pitkään, jolloin muslimit otettiin vapauttajina vastaan, sillä mm. kristityille ja juutalaisille Koraani määrää uskonnonvapauden. Ilman kr.uskoa näitä aikanaan Bysanttia heikentäneitä ja alueet otollisiksi valloituksille tehneitä kapinoita ja vainoja ei olisi ollut. Islamin valta olisi kenties jäänyt Arabian niemimaalle.

Eli tilanne olisi ollut se, että aivan liian suuri, vahva ja yhtenäinen Rooma (joka vieläpä uskonnollisesti/poliittisesti olisi paljon kauempana muslimeista kuin Jeesuksen jumaluuteenkaan uskoneet kristityt ovat ikinä olleet) olisi estänyt Islamin leviämisen länteen, Euroopan ja Afrikan (ehkä myös Aasian) edessä olisi ollut todella suuri tulppa (tätä kenties Jeesus tarkoitti sanoessaan olevansa "kuningas", että hän jakaa pakana-Rooman kahtia Aabrahamin uskonnoille otollisemmaksi valloittaa kr.uskolle lännen ja Islamille Itä-Rooman, ja että John.18:36 "Minun kuninkuuteni ei ole tästä maailmasta. Jos se kuuluisi tähän maailmaan, minun mieheni olisivat taistelleet, etten joutuisi juutalaisten käsiin", eli että profeetan ja uskonnon puolustaminen on oikein mutta että Jeesuksen ja hänen seuraajilleen on annettu osa kärsiä Rooman vainoissa, mutta selviytyä niistä ilman uskonnon kokonaan tuhoutumista harrastamalla passiivista vastarintaa ja täten pitäen vainot huomattavasti pienempinä kuin että jos hajallaan olevat kristityt taistelisivat ROOMALAISIA vastaan), minkä heikentämiseksi ei olisi tiedossa ristiretkiä (lännen kristityt tuhosivat ja heikensivät Konstantinopolia niin että Balkan ja myöhemmin itse Konstantinopol joutuivat pian pysyvästi mongooleita ja Timuria paenneiden turkkilaisten muslimeiden käsiin) tai sisäisiä levottomuuksia (P-Afrikan ja L-Idän alueet olivat eräitä Rooman vauraimpia/viljavimpia/väkirikkaimpia). Uskonnollisesti muslimeiden pahimpia kilpailijoita olisivat toiset yksijumalaiset eli juutalaiset ja zarathustralaiset, joista jopa ensimmäiset olisivat vakavasti otettavia vaihtoehtoja uskontona ilman kr.uskon tuomaa ”säröä” maineeseensa (ja kilpailua).

Tälläinen valtakunta olisi saattanut vuosisatojen aikana ennen Islamia jopa ahmaista koko Persian (joka tuotti harmaita hiuksia mm. Bysantille, edelleen heikentäen molempia juuri ennen Islamin tuloa), jolloin Islamin leviäminen NOPEASTI olisi ollut estetty myös pohjoiseen ja länteen. Pelkästään Irakin hallitseminen (mikä onkin ollut osa Roomaa) olisi riittänyt siihen että arabit eivät tuskin olisi uskaltaneet ottaa riskiä maa yhteyden luomiseksi vallalleen länteen, koska pelkäisivät koko yhtenäisen ja VAHVAN (yhtenäisten vuosisatojen lujittaman) Rooman valtakunnan alkamista sotaan. Islam olisi (jos Rooma ei olisi päättänyt yrittää täysin tuhota sitä) levinnyt kuitenkin kaupankäynnin mukana (kuten oikeastikin pääosaan Afrikkaa/Aasiaa), vaikkakin edellytykset siihen köyhällä Arabialla olisivat olleet aivan toiset kuin oikeasti muslimeilla joilla oli mm. rikkaat Egypti ja Irak hallussaan, ja huomioiden sen miten Rooma/Persia olisivat ehkä pyrkineet estämään kauppaa. Eli Rooma oli pitänyt hallussaan Irakin (kenties koko Persian joka taisteli sitä vastaan kuten oikeastikin jatkuvasti Bysanttia vastaan), ja täten Islamin syntyessä hallinnut kaikkia maa-alueita arabian-niemimaan ympärillä kenties I-Afrikkaa lukuun ottamatta, blokaten täten hyvin tehokkaasti Islamin leviämisen (muuten kuin vähemmistöuskonnoksi) länteen, pohjoiseen ja itään.

Rooman hallitessa Mesopotamiaa Bagdadilaisia imaameja ei olisi päätynyt Volgan mutkalle Moskovan lähistölle 900-luvulla, eikä sinne olisi syntynyt Islamilaista yhteisöä. Islam ei siis myöskään levinnyt merkittävästi Kaukasukselle ja Krimin niemimaalle. Venäjän ja Bagdadin valloittaneet mongolit eivät olisi kääntyneet Islamiin, joten Uralin takainenkin alue (Siberia) jäisi hyvin merkityksettömäksi Islamin kannalta eikä siellä siis olisi mm. Islamilaisia Siperian tataareja. Venäjää hallitsikin vielä 1800-luvulla buddhalaiset mongoolit, kunnes Euroopan pakanat valloittivat sen (varmistaakseen väestönkasvulle ruuan saannin, Ukrainan ja Venäjän arot ovat hyvin tuottavia) kymmeniä miljoonia henkiä vaatineessa sodassa, kun Euroopan siirtolaisuuteen purkautumaton väestönkasvu vaatii "elintilaa".

Oletetaan siis että Islam levisi pakanoiden keskuudessa oikeasti tapahtunutta hitaammin useiden vuosisatojen kuluessa, aivan kuten kr.usko levisi hitaasti Rooman valtakunnassa ennen sen virallistamista ainoaksi sallituksi. Muslimeiden enemmistön asuinsijoiksi olisivat ilmeisesti jääneet nykyiset P-Afrikan ja L-Idän alueet, mutta kuten kristityt, muslimit olisivat olleet siellä pitkään vain vähemmistönä ilman poliittista valtaa. Tämän pitkän ajan kuluessa toisaalla (jo ennen Islamia alkanut) kansainvaellusten tuottama prosessi ja (ihmisten ja kulttuurien) sulautuminen olisi luonut Islamin synnyn jälkeiseen Keski-Eurooppaan uuden vahvan pakana-valtion (jonka me tunnemme vaikkapa frankkien valtakuntana). Länsi-Rooma olisi köyhtynyt Rooman itäisten osien imiessä rikkaudet ja vallan (kuten Konstantinopoliinkin), ja kansainvaelluksessa syntyneen uuden, Itä-Roomasta erilaisen väestön halu määrätä itsestään olisi kasvanut, jolloin se olisi saattanut irtaantua erilleen Byzantiumin Roomasta, kenties paljon myöhemmin kuin oikeasti (sulautuminen hidasta, lisänä Rooman vallan pyrkimykset yhtenäisyyteen). Tämä irtaantuminen olisi nostanut P-Afrikkaan ja L-Itään keskittyneiden muslimeiden osuutta Byzantiumin valtiossa, mikä olisi voinut johtaa muslimeiden vallanhalun kasvuun (ja raakoihin vainoihin/sotiin lähinnä ylivoimaisten roomalaisten puolelta). Tämän pelästyttämänä uusi Länsi-Rooma ja Euroopan muut pakanavaltiot olisivat tehneet Islamista kuolemalla rangaistavan uskonnon (kuten se oli kristityissäkin valtioissa käytännössä) estääkseen sen tulemisen sinne ja ”vallankaappaus halut”.

Oikeassa maailmassa Renesanssi alkoi siitä että kristityt alkoivat kiinnostumaan n. 1200/1300/1400-luvuilla Euroopan menneisyydestä, ja esimerkiksi kaikki Antiikin Kreikkaa käsittelevä tieto/kirjoitukset saatiin arabeilta, siis käännettiin arabiasta Euroopan kielille, kun ne oli aikanaan kirkon toimesta kielletty pakanallisina (mm. ”hyvän ja pahan tiedon puu”- esimerkillä kaiken tiedon vaarallisuutta perustellen). Ilman kirkon kontrollia antiikin perintöä ei olisi Roomassakaan tod.näk. ikinä unohdettu, ja he olisivatkin jatkaneet siitä mistä oikeasti arabit jatkoivat (mm. lääke) tieteiden eteenpäin viemistä. Tämä tarkoittaa siis ”aikaista renesanssia”, Islamin kulta-ajan sijaan tulikin (ajallisesti kenties jo ennen sitä alkanut) kukoistava Eurooppalainen pakana-aika. Muslimit olisivat hallinneet korkeintaan Arabian niemimaata, muualla he olisivat menneet kehityksessä enemmistön mukana roikkuen, jos Itä-Rooma olisi vielä kehittynyt eikä alkanut heikentymään sen kilpailijan Länsi-Rooman kehityksen kasvaessa. Onkin ilmeistä että sisäisten ristiriitojen (muslimien) heikentämänä taktisesti ja taloudellisesti keskeinen Byzantium-kaupunki olisi vallattu, mutta tekijänä eivät olisi olleet muslimit vaan vahva Länsi-Rooma (ristiretkien heikentävillä vaikutuksilla osansa miksi idästä tullutta painetta paenneet, ja Bysantin kanssa sotaan joutuneet muslimi-turkkilaiset aikanaan valtasivat sen).

Kehittynyt Eurooppa ei olisi kaivannut tuntematonta Jerusalemia tai aavikoita, eikä edes ennen rikkaimmat alueet Egyptissä ja Irakissa olisi niin elintärkeitä menestyvälle pakana-Euroopalle, jossa vallitsi vuosien 700-1300 aikana hyvin lämmin ajanjakso jolloin viiniä viljeltiin jopa Britanniassa asti. Täten he eivät halunneetkaan ongelmallisia (muslimi-kapinallisia) P-Afrikan ja L-Idän alueita, vaan tyytyivät valloituksissaan ulottamaan valtansa nykyisen Turkin rajoille Aasiassa, jolloin he saivat tarpeeksi suojaavat vuoristoiset rajat. Niinpä muslimit näkivät tilaisuutensa, ja ottivat monet alueen osista haltuunsa, vaikkakaan mistään yhtenäisestä valtakunnasta tuskin voisi puhua, tai edes siitä että muslimit olisivat enemmistönä (ja siten vallassa) kaikkialla näillä ”hylätyillä” alueilla. Näin Islam olisi saavuttanut ainakin osan todellisesta asemastaan alueella, vaikkakin monta vuosisataa myöhässä ja hajanaisesti.
Muslimeiden kehitys olisi laahannut pahasti perässä verrattuna todellisuuteen, idässä Persian ja K-Aasian mongoli-kansojen puolella veriset taistelut Islamin ja muiden välillä käytäisiin vasta nyt niidenkin ollessa ”itsenäistymis-hurmassa”, siellä (buddhalaisten keskuudessa) varsinkin hyvin suureksi kasvanut ja levinnyt zarathustralaisten joukko olisi ehdoton yhden Jumalansa, Azura Mazdan palvonnassa. Turvallisten maayhteyksien puuttuessa kaupankäynti idän ja muslimeiden välillä ei olisi kasvanut niihin mittoihin mitä se oikeasti oli jo satoja vuosia ennen tätä, ja Eurooppa olisi voinut jäädä ilman monta keksintöä ja ideaa, kuten nollaa Intiasta, sillä muslimit olisivat keskittyneet käymään kauppaa kehittyneen pakana-Euroopan kanssa (kuten eurooppalaiset tekivät kehittyneen muslimi-maailman kanssa). Siis Euroopassa olisi käytössä roomalaiset numerot vielä pitkään (jokainen voi miettiä mitä vaikutusta sillä olisi ollut matematiikan ja sen kautta mm. muiden tieteiden kehitykseen). Toisaalta myös muslimit olisivat alkaneet hiljalleen kehittyä omaksuessaan tietoa/keksintöjä pakanallisesta Euroopasta, kun oikeasti kävi juuri toisin päin.Mutta tiedon kulku olisi ollut hidasta,Mekan kautta vuosittain välittyi keksinnöt Espanjasta Kiinaan.

Sodat pakana-Euroopan ja muslimi-maailman välillä näyttäisivät ajan kuluessa todennäköisiltä, tällä kertaa ristiretkeilijöinä olisivatkin kenties köyhät (vaikka vain rikas voi lähteä pitkälle ristiretkelle) ja kehittymättömät muslimit ("barbaarit"), ”Roomaa vapauttamaan” lähdettäisiin koska siellä olisi suuri muslimi-väestö (aikanaan yhtenäisen Rooman aikaan sinne syntynyt/tuotu) joka on kohdannut vainoa yms., ja tarvitsisi vapautusta. Yhtenäisen poliittisen ja taloudellisen johtajan puuttuessa (muslimeiden irtaannuttua roomasta hajanaisesti) muslimit olisivat ottaneet kenties itselleen yhteisen henkisen johtajan, ”paavin” (vallalla tulkita uskontoa), joka julistaisi Rooman vapautusta ja lupaisi siihen osallistuville syntien anteeksiantoa. Vuosisatoja muslimeita kehityksessä edellä oleva antiikin perinnöstään ammentava Eurooppa olisi väestön määrältä (suotuisat olosuhteet mm. viljelylle pitkään jatkuneen vakauden, hyvinvoinnin, teknologian ja ilmaston suunnalta) ja sotilasteknologialtaan muslimeille ilmeisen selvästi liian iso pala, ja ristiretkien vaikutus jäisi tuhoisaksi ja lyhyeksi.

Euroopan pakana-valloilla ei olisi äärettömän tärkeiltä tuntuvia syitä (kuten kr.uskon levitys oli) pyrkiä laajentamaan valtapiiriään, joten merten taakse ei lähdetty. Vuonna 1692 arabi Ibn Al-Muttaqin purjehtii Amerikan rannikoille, ja löytää sieltä hyvin pitkälle kehittyneet intiaanien valtiot, joista suurimmat ovat Pohjois- ja Keski-Amerikkaa hegemonisesti otteessaan pitävä azteekit, ja Etelä-Amerikkaa rannikoita myöten hallitsevat incat. Muslimit mitä ilmeisimmin katsoisivat alueiden olevan liian kaukana ja vaikeasti valloitettavissa (ilman suurtakaan hyötyä), että sitä ikinä lähdettäisiin yrittämään valloittaa. Muslimit saisivat luvan perustaa kauppa-asemia Amerikkaan, mutta Islamia uskontona (ja sen levittämistä/leviämistä) tuskin katsottaisiin ollenkaan suopeasti intiaanien päällikkö-jumalien keskuudessa.

Teollistuminen sai alkunsa Kiinassa (osaltaan jo Intiassa), jossa ei seurannut ”pysähtyneisyyden aikaa” mikä tuli (”krapulana”) pakana-Euroopalle heidän monta vuosisataa jatkuneen kultaisen ajan tyssättyä Euroopan sisäisten luonnonvarojen puutteeseen/hupenemiseen jatkuvan väestönkasvun kautta (mikä ei päässyt purkautumaan Amerikoihin). 1900-luvun puolella rauhassa ilman kenenkään häirintää (siis mm. siirtomaa-aikaa ja oopium-sotia) kehittyä saanut Kiina alkoi katsoa lisää ”lebensraumia” eli ”elintilaa” räjähdysmäisesti kasvavalle valtavalle väestölleen, jolloin laajentumisen kohteeksi otettaisiin länsi ja mm. Keski-Aasian (jo nyt muslimi-enemmistöiset) alueet (zarathustralaisten vähemmistöllä). Kiinan ja Intian saastuttamisen ja elintason (kulutuksen) kasvaessa maapallo olisi lujilla.

Uskonnolliset olot Islamille eivät olisi kovin suvaitsevia, eikä Islam olisi levinnytkään kovin laajalle tai nopeaa (nythän se on levinnyt puhtaasti jopa Raamatun kautta siinä selkeästi Islamia käsittelevine ennusteineen ja todisteineen, ja mm. opissaan samasta Aabrahamin Jumalasta, Japani on ainoa maa jossa muslimeita/kristittyjä ei ole erikseen/yhdessä yli 5% väestöstä).Yleensäkin olisi varsin selvää että ennemmin tai myöhemmin kaiken keskellä olevia (ja selkeästi opillisesti pakanoita vastaan olevia) muslimeita vastaan liittouduttaisiin jokaisesta suunnasta, intiaanien, intialaisten, kiinalaisten, afrikkalaisten ja eurooppalaisten pakanoiden toimesta, ja olot muslimeilla voisivat olla varsin kuumat…

Turvallisen maa-yhteyden puuttuessa kontaktit vähäisten arabien (S-Arabia ei pystynyt tuottamaan ruokaa isolle väestölle) ja kiinalaisten sekä intialaisten (vuoristo erottaa näitä kahta) välillä jäivät vähäisiksi, vaikkakin kuten oikeastikin arabi-kauppiaita kulki Kiinan rannikolle jo 600-luvulla, tosin nyt heitä tietenkin oli ratkaisevasti paljon vähemmän eikä Islam saanut Kiinassa vankkaa jalansijaa. Myöskään Intiaa muslimit eivät valloittaneet ja pitäneet hallussaan, joten kaupankäynti rajoittui Intian rannikoille joilla hindulaisuudella oli vahva jalansija ja joissa Islam sai vain vähäistä kannatusta (oikeastikin Islam omaksuttiin laajasti lähinnä vain Keski- ja Pohjois-Intiassa). Intialaiset ja kiinalaiset muslimi-kauppiaat eivät saapuneet Malesiaan ja Indonesiaan, vaan sen tekivät arabit (pienissä määrin jälleen) 1600-luvulla satoja vuosia todellista myöhemmin, eikä Islam enää saanut räjähtävää menestystä vaan alueen tärkeimmiksi uskonnoiksi jäi (jo silloin hyvin väkirikkaiksi kasvaneet) buddhalaisuus ja hindulaisuus.

Itä-Afrikkaan Islam kyllä levisi arabi-kauppiaiden mukana, vaikkakin edelleen heitä meni sinne paljon vähemmän kuin oikeasti ja menestyskin Islamilla jäi siellä pienemmäksi. Ilman massiivista (kymmeniä miljoonia koskenutta) orjakauppaa Amerikkaan (paljolti yksijumalaisista) heimouskonnoista koostuvassa Länsi-Afrikassa, väkiluku ei romahda ja kokonaisia sukupolvia parhaassa työiässä ei viedä kehittämästä paikallisia yhteiskuntia, jolloin niiden kehitykselle on huomattavasti paremmat ja itsenäisemmät edellytykset, varsinkin ilman siirtomaa-aikaa. Länsi-Afrikan väkiluku on lähes kaksi kertaa sen minkä nyt (se oli HYVIN suuri osa silloisista afrikkalaisista jotka vietiin orjiksi), kauppa maanosan eri paikkojen välillä on vilkasta ilman keinotekoisia siirtomaa-rajoja, mutta silti Afrikan yhteiskunnat pysyivät kuitenkin pitkälle kehittymättöminä ja kaupungistumattomina heimoyhteiskuntina, joita piinaa HIV jota ei ole pystytty vastustamaan valistuksen ja avun jakamisen hankaluuden takia (ihmisten asuessa hajallaan ja ”yhteiskunnasta erillään”).

Viikingit eivät rauhoittuneet, vaan jatkoivat ryöstelyjään. He myöskin perustivat siirtokuntia P-Amerikan rannikolle, vaikkakin joutuivat perääntymään pohjoiseen ja rannikon saarille azteekkien hegemonian tieltä. Hekin lopulta 1900-luvulla alkoivat omaksumaan ”Eurooppalaisia arvoja” (Wanhan Rooman kultaisen ajan muisteluiden saatua pakanalliset tavat kuten kylpylät jälleen pystyyn), eivätkä enää AINA ryypänneet täyskännejä ja jopa peseytyivät joskus. Valistus ja monet muut ideat ja filosofiat (kuten demokratian syntyminen uudestaan sen jälkeen kun muslimi naiset ja miehet profeetan käskyn mukaisesti äänestivät ensimmäisiä kalifeja) jäivät syntymättä ilman niiden tarvitsemaa ”pohjaa”, eli siis kirkon kuritus-vallan ja yleisen kurjuuden puuttuessa kokonaan, jolloin ei ollut sellaista kritisoitavaakaan synnyttämään vastareaktioita.

Antiikin Kreikan ihailun humussa pakana-Eurooppa oli kokeillut kerran antiikin kreikan demokratian (vapaat miehet saavat äänestää) palauttamista, mutta sen ei todettu sopivan kunnollisten äänestämis- ja poliitikkojen sanottavan kuuntelun mahdollisuuksien puuttuessa (pienissä kaupunkivaltiossa asiat eri tavalla kuin kymmenien miljoonien valtioissa, alkeellista posti-laitosta ei oltu keksitty äänien kasaamiseksi).

Vuoden 2000 paikkeilla Islamilla olisi ollut kannattajia ehkä n. 500 miljoonaa, keskittyneenä enimmäkseen K-Aasiaan, L-Itään, Pohjois- ja Itä-Afrikkaan. Euroopassa asuu n. miljardi ihmistä (ilman siirtolaisuutta Amerikkaan), ja väkiluku kasvaa kiinalaisilta saatujen uusien lääkkeiden vähentäessä kuolevuutta syntyvyyden pysyessä korkeana. Afrikassa asuu n. miljardi ihmistä, (ilman orjakauppaa Amerikkaan), Kiinan ja Intian väkiluvut ovat molemmat räjähtäneet teollistumisen myötä yli 2 miljardin (elintason ja tekniikan nousu vähensi kuolleisuutta syntyvyyden pysyessä isona, Kiinassa ei ikinä otettu yhden lapsen politiikkaa käyttöön koska kommunismia ei syntynyt).

Kun Raamatussakin tehdään selväksi että kaikki mitä tapahtuu on Jumalan tahto (Hänhän luonut kaikkea ohjailevat ja rajoittavat luonnonlait), eikö ole aika selvä osoitus Islamin puolesta tämä mitä on tapahtunut? Kumpi kuulostaa enemmän Jumalan tahdolta, se että Jumala luo (muslimeille) harmittoman ”pienemmän pahan” (ja samalla testin) eli kr.uskon (muslimeille) käsittämättömine profeetan palvomisineen (mistä on helppo huomata ettei se voi olla se oikea uskonto ainakaan) joka lopulta auttaa Islamia leviämään, vai se että Jumala luo ensin kr.uskon, jolla oli jopa n. 200 vuotta aikaa ehtiä Aasiassa leviämään ennen buddhalaisuutta ja kaikkialle muuallekin koko maailman ainoaksi uskonnoksi (mikä olisi tehty Intiassakin vaikka pakolla), mutta joutui tyytymään 1600-luvulle asti ainoastaan Eurooppaan Islamin blokatessa sen leviämisen idässä ja etelässä, kun Jeesuskin sanoi että taivasten valtakunnassa on ihmisiä idästä, lännestä, pohjoisesta ja etelästä. Lopulta kysymys on myös siitä miten vakavina varoituksina Jeesuksen sanat ottaa, eli katsooko ennustuksen omaisena varoituksena mm. (Matt.12:39-40) "Tämä paha ja uskoton sukupolvi vaatii merkkiä, mutta ainoa merkki joka sille annetaan on Joonaan merkki. Niin kuin profeetta Joona oli meripedon vatsassa kolme päivää ja kolme yötä (elossa), NIIN on Ihmisen Poika oleva maan povessa kolme päivää ja kolme yötä", sekä (Matt.15:8-9) Jeesuksen siteeraama Jesajan ennustus "Tämä kansa kunnioittaa minua huulillaan, mutta sen sydän on kaukana minusta. Turhaan he minua palvelevat (eng. Raamatuissa "worship", palvovat), kun opettavat oppejaan, ihmisten (Paavalin ym. kirkonmiesten) tekemiä käskyjä (kuten kolminaisuus-oppia, jota ei ole edes sanana Raamatussa)." (jatkuen Jes.29:14) "Niin minä teen uudelleen (Jeesuksen ja Islamin kautta) tälle kansalle ihmeellisiä, hämmästyttäviä ihmetekoja, ja sen viisaiden viisaus häviää ja sen ymmärtäväisten ymmärrys katoaa (profeetan hylkäämiseen ja palvontaan?)". Samoin (Matt.21:43) "Jumalan valtakunta otetaan teiltä (juutalaisilta ja sen lahkolta kr.usko) pois, ja annetaan kansalle (yksikössä, arabit, kr.usko ei mitenkään perustu yhteen kansaan kuin juutalaisuuteen) joka tekee sen hedelmiä". Eikö Jeesus sano sitä sukupolvea pahaksi ja jonkin suuren tapahtuvan?

Joka tapauksessa lienee selvää että "Jeesus-jumala" olisi laittanut juutalaiset/muslimit mahdottomaan asemaan pelastua, kun pitäisi hindujen tavoin palvoa profeettaa (Jeesus muuten myös yksi hindujen hyväksymiä jumalia, V. Da Gamakin luuli Intiaan tullessaan hinduja kristityiksi ja temppeleitä kirkoiksi, tämän jälkeen hän perusteli Intian valtausta paaville/kuninkaalle sillä että ”pääse tappamaan maureja” eli Intian muslimeita, ja hän tuhosikin Islamin sisämerenä toimineen valtameren valtavat aseistamattomat muslimeiden kauppa-laivastot) vaikka tämä itse opetti puhdasta monoteismia, Islamia, noudattaen oppeja joiden lisääminen uskontoon on Raamatussakin kielletty ja jotka jopa kumoavat profeetta Jeesuksen oppeja (mm. laista, Tooran asemasta, Jeesuksen synnittömien "lasten kaltaisten" Paavalin "perisyntiin" ja mm. kasteeseen ja ehdolliseen joiden noudattamiseen Jeesus ei tulevia sukupolvia käskenyt vaikka niiden tekemisen hetkellä pyysi muitakin osallistumaan). Lisäksi voiko miestä joka sanoo (John. 5:37) "..te ette ole koskaan kuulleet Hänen (Jumalan) ääntään ettekä nähneet Hänen kasvojaan" ja (Luuk.18:19) "Miksi sanot minua hyväksi? Ainoastaan Jumala on hyvä, ei kukaan muu" pitää todella synnittömänä Jumalana rehellisesti? Kristityt perustelevat asiaa sanomalla että Jeesus sanoi olevansa yhtä Isän kanssa, mutta hän myös sanoi (John.17:21-22) että myös op.lapset ovat yhtä Jeesuksen ja Isän kanssa, eli onko jumaluuksia viisitoista? Lopultahan Jeesus itsekin sanoi HYVIN suoraan Maria Magdaleenalle (John.20:17) että myös hänellä on Jumala ja sama kuin op.lapsillakin, "minä nousen oman Isäni ja teidän Isänne luo, OMAN Jumalani ja teidän Jumalanne luo". Miksi Jeesus olisi viimeisinä hetkinään valehdellut valituilleen (juutalaisen uskon mukaan monoteistisesti Jumalaan ja profeettoihin uskoneisiin, josta todistaa ap.tekojen kuvaus miten juutalaiset antoivat heidän käyttää synagoogiaan), jos hänen jumaluuteen uskominen on pelastuksen edellytys? Raamattuun kannattaa tutustua, huomaa yhteistä Islamiin. Profeetta kielsi vahingoittamasta syytöntä (tai tämän omaisuuttaan) edes sodassakaan, mutta itsepuolustus on sallittua (sotaa ei saa muslimit aloittaa, tai [rauhan]sopimusta rikkoa). Jeesus sanoi ”ei ole suurempaa rakkautta kuin henkensä antaminen lähimmäisensä puolesta”, mikä tarkoittaa varmasti muutakin kuin vain luodin eteen hyppäämistä.

Islamin merkitystä läntisinä pitämiimme asioihin (joita Islamin katsotaan jopa vastustavan, vaikka ilman muslimeita kristityt olisivat unohtaneet mm. A-Kreikan demokratian, ja missanneet renesanssin) ei voi vähätellä, Allah on kääntänyt maailman kuin ylösalaisin niin että nykyinen tilanne muslimi-maissa Islamin noudattamisen suhteen on lähinnä surkuhupaisaa verrattuna Islamin oppiin (yhtenä syynä ilmeisesti siirtomaa-valtojen ja Koraani-koulujen sulkemisen jälkeen yleistynyt lukutaidottomuus). Kuka nykyään arvaisi demokratian naisten äänestysoikeudella syntyneen alku-Islamilaisessa pienessä yhteisössä, kun profeetan hadith eli käsky (jonka muuten shiia-muslimit ovat hylänneet katsoen valtion johtajan pitävän olla profeetan sukua ja virkamiesten imaameja) ”valitkaa johtaja itsellenne vaaleilla joukostanne” varmisti sen että niin miehet kuin naisetkin äänestivät samoin ensimmäisiä kalifeja Arabiassa (käytäntö jäi Islamin saatua nopeasti haltuun alueet Espanjasta Kiinaan, jolloin valtakunnasta tuli liian suuri vaalien järjestämiseen, eri ryhmittymien samalla kiistellessä armottomasti vallasta). Jopa muutkin naisten vasta 1900-luvulla lännessä saavuttamat oikeudet ovat olleet Islamin opissa jo 600-luvulta lähtien, 1300 vuotta ennemmin, kuten se että Koraani käskee kouluttamaan naiset siinä kuin miehetkin (yliopistoissa ennen yliopistoja Euroopassa), vaimo päättää ehkäisystä, oikeus avioeroon (erona mieheen ”varo-aika” mahdollisen lapsen isän selvittämiseksi), oikeus oman omaisuuden hallintaan (miehellä ei oikeutta koskea, vaan tarjottava elatus ettei nainen joudu sitä kuluttamaan) ja hankintaan (ainoastaan fyysisesti raskas/vaarallinen työ miesten velvollisuus, Koraanissa elatuksen hankkijoita ”hiellä ja verellä”), perintöön, oikeustoimikelpoisuuteen ja minkä tahansa naisen tekemän sopimuksen pitävyyteen (jolloin nainen voi harjoittaa miehen elatuksen takia säästyvällä perinnöllä/myötäjäisillä sijoitus/liiketoimintaa, kuten kauppa ja johtaminen). Profeetta myös kielsi IKINÄ lyömästä naista kasvoihin/päähän, muuten rajoitus KORKEINTAAN YKSI KEVYT lyönti avokämmenellä/sormin vaikkapa käsivarteen (perheväkivallan tuhojen rajoittamista, ei voi ikinä estää kokonaan) vihan purkamiseksi EHDOTTOMASTI VIIMEISENÄ KEINONA (puhumisen ja seksin kieltämisen jälkeen). Naiselle on taattu oikeus todistaa raiskauksesta ilman rangaistuksen pelkoa Koraanissa (24:4 VAIN MIESTÄ käsketään rankaista väärästä seksuaalirikos-todistuksesta). Muutenkin Muhammed/Koraani arvostaa ja ylistää naista, TUTKI!

Posted by moon2/koran at 3:34 PM EEST
Updated: Wednesday, 28 September 2005 5:21 PM EEST
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Ristiretket olivat juuri loppuneet, ja Venetsia oli hyötynyt niistä nousten kauppamahdiksi (mm. uudella saippualla L-Idästä), 1348 kauppalaiva toi Mustan Meren pohjukasta (Mongoliasta lähteneen) Mustan Surman Venetsiaan/Eurooppaan, lähes puolet kuoli (tauti ei levinnyt juuri muslimeille tiukan hygienian ja profeetan sairaille antaman karanteeni-määräyksen takia). Euroopppa alkoi kääntämään kielilleen arabien säilömiä mm. vanhoja kreikkalaisia tekstejä (varsinkin Sisilian muslimeilta valtauksen jälkeen), mikä johti renesanssiin, mikä johti verisiin uskonsotiin uskonpuhdistuksessa (mm. nykyisestä Saksasta kuoli 1/3 osa väestöstä, 5 miljoonaa). Napoleonin Egyptin sotaretki päättyi lyötyjen armeijan rippeiden hylkäämiseen, mutta (taitavan puhujan) sotaretken kansansuosion takia hänet nostettiin siitä parissa viikossa valtaan, joka johti koko Euroopan laajuiseen sotaan. Venäjän tsaarin ja kirkon yhteisesti harjoittama (vallattujen) Volgan ja Uralin takaisten alueiden muslimien vainoaminen/pakkokäännytys päättyi kun bolshevikit tarjosivat muslimeille itsehallintoa alueillensa vastineeksi liittoutumisesta tsaarin valkoisia vastaan (jolla oli länsi tukijana), bolshevikit voittivat sodan ja muslimit saivat varsin hyvin pitää moskeijansa ja tapansa kommunismissa, NL:iitossa kaikissa kirjastoissa oli Koraani muttei Raamattua (joka koettiin kapitalistisen lännen propagandaksi), ja muslimeita kulkeutui kaikkialle NL:ssä. Lännen siirtomaiden valloitukset ajoivat ne kiistaan keskenään (mm. Saksan, Ranskan ja Englannin kiistellessä kuka saa itä-länsi ja etelä-pohjoinen suunnissa yhtenäiset siirtomaat rannikolta rannikolle), kilpailuun ja toisia vastaan liittoutumisiin, jonka laukaisi muslimi-enemmistöisessä (Itävalta-Unkarin hallitsemassa siirtomaassa) Bosnian Sarajevossa tapahtunut salamurha, seurauksena kahdesta sodasta 20 ja 60 miljoonaa kuollutta, espanjantaudin tapettua surkeissa oloissa ensimmäisen jälkeen vielä 25 miljoonaa, vasta sitten siirtomaa-aika loppui. Rangaistukset ovat näkyvissä, E-Amerikallakin ehkä Espanjan ”painoa”.

Islamin levinneisyys on valtava, maissa joissa Islam on vähintään 10% kansan osan uskonto, asuu yhteensä 4,5 miljardia ihmistä (75% maailmasta). Näissä maissa voi olla varma että Islam on saapunut jokaiseen kaupunkiin, Kiinassakin on lähes kaikissa kaupungeissa ollut moskeijoita jo siitä lähtien kun kauppiaat heti Islamin synnyn jälkeen kulkivat siellä (rannikko/silkkitie), jolloin muslimit saavuttivat siellä edelleen voimassa olevan rehellisten kauppiaiden maineen. Vertailuksi kr.usko, joka on yli 10% osuudella maissa joissa asuu vain n. 2,5 miljardia ihmistä, ja suureen osaan näistä maista (Afrikkaan) se on tullut vasta 1900-luvulla pakanoiden käännytyksen lähdettyä käyntiin siirtomaissa. Sinne minne kr.usko on levinnyt, on aina kristitty armeija mennyt ensin ja lähetys-saarnaajat sitten, pari kertaa on käynyt niin että kuningas on valinnut kr.uskon ja käskenyt armeijan tukemana kansaakin omaksumaan sen.
Sen sijaan, mikä muslimiarmeija meni Länsi-, Keski- tai Itä-Afrikkaan? Mikä meni Venäjälle, Kiinaan, Malesiaan tai Indonesiaan? Kauppiaiden armeijat! Alueet minne muslimit ovat ennen menneet, ovat tulleet islamilaisiksi, joskus muslimien tuhoajat ovat tulleet muslimeiksi (kuten Bagdadin ja Venäjän valloittaneet mongolit, jotka kääntyivät valloitusten jälkeen Islamiin). Jotain nyky-muslimeista kertoo että minne he menevät, siellä heitä vihataan. Mutta Allah on tehnyt Islamin löytämisen kaikille yhtä helpoksi. Kristityillä on SELVÄT todisteet Raamatussaan (+pitkä elinaika etsiä totuutta, internet, jne.), kun taas idän uskonnoissa helppous on siinä että jo pelkästään Jumalaan uskominen antaa ainoaksi järkeväksi (ja läheiseksi) vaihtoehdoksi Islamin, eihän esim. budhalaisuudessa edes ole Jumalaa, paikalliset eivät välttämättä edes tunne termiä ”uskotko/uskon jumalaan”, mutta idän uskonnoissa (mm. kongfutselaisuus, buddhalaisuus) on kylläkin ollut hyvin paljon samanlaista filosofiaa ja arvoja joiden ansiosta Islam omaksuttiin nopeaa niiden alueilla (kuten Malesiassa ja Indonesiassa). Toisaalta kr.uskon saaneille testi ei ole edes niin rankka kuin aasialaisilla (huomioiden elintasonkin), heillä on sentään tuttu jumala-käsite. Silti vain harvat kristityt ovat löytäneet Islamin, kun Aasian väestöstä muslimeita on 33%, keskittyen Kiinaan (n.10-15% väestöstä), Intiaan (n. 15-20% väestöstä+Pakistan ja Bangladesh), ja Indonesiaan (n. 90% väestöstä).
Nähkää myös miten Islam kattaa kuivimmat alueet, ikään kuin Jumala haluaisi näyttää että muslimit eivät tarvitse kuin uskonsa, eivät mitään muuta. Muille on annettu enemmän upeaa ja monipuolista luontoa todisteeksi Jumalasta. Mutta eivät he lännessäkään tätä tajua, nykyajan teollisuusmaiden ihminen (jolla on yli 80% maailman varallisuudesta, 20% väestöstä) on Jeesuksen kuvailema ”rikas mies”, jonka on hankalampi päästä taivaaseen (=hyväksyä Islam) ”kuin kamelin mennä nuppineulan päästä.” Allah asettaa meidät syntymään siihen aikaan, paikkaan ja elämään mikä on juuri meille oikea ja määrätty, jo (siittämisessä tapahtuvan valikoitumisen lisäksi) geenit ja ympäristö määräävät lähes täysin mitä meistä tulee. Islamin mukaan muslimit ovat ”keskellä” (sanalla monta merkitystä), ja maantieteellisesti Allah on suurimman osan heistä niin asetellutkin (syntymään/”kääntymään”).
Lännessä on myös tieto (Islam) tullut kaikkien ulottuville lännen samalla saavuttaessa väkiluvussa ”maksimin”, sattumaako vai oikeudenmukaisuutta Allahilta että mahdollisimman monelle annetaan mahdollisuus pelastua, Islamin saavuttaessa levinneisyyden jolloin jokaisen (terveen aikuisen) olisi tehtävä valinta siihen, kun se on selkeästi tarjolla?
Jeesuksen vertaus sinapin siemenestä ja hapatteesta on Matt.13:31, ja Jeesus siinä kertoo kuinka "taivasten valtakunta (=Islamin alueet, Israelin jälkeen ainoa teokraattinen valtio) on kuin sinapinsiemen, jonka mies (=Jumala) kylvi maahansa (=Arabia, Aabrahamin temppelin, Kaaban paikka). Se on pienin kaikista siemenistä (Islam Medinassa), mutta kun sen taimi kasvaa täyteen mittaansa (=Espanjasta Kiinaan), se on puutarhan kasveista (=uskonnoista) suurin. Lopulta se on kuin puu (=Islamin ydinalueiden "kiinteä" ja yhtenäinen muoto, ”yhteys toisiinsa”, ei saarekkeina kuten kr.usko), niin että taivaan linnut tulevat ja pesivät sen oksille(="oksat" Afrikassa ja Malesiassa/Indonesiassa, linnut muuttavat etelään)." Jeesus jatkaa vertaustaan ja sanoo "Taivasten valtakunnan on kuin hapate. Kun nainen sekoitti sen kolmeen vakalliseen jauhoja (=KOLME MANTERETTA, Afrikka, Aasia ja Eurooppa johon Islam levisi HETI), koko taikina (=maailma) happani (=islamilaistui vähitellen, joka on nyt käynnissä).

Vaikka Jeesus sanoi (Luuk. 17:20-21) "Ei Jumalan valtakunta tule niin, että sen tulemista VOIDAAN TARKKAILLA.... Katsokaa: Jumalan valtakunta on TEIDÄN KESKELLÄNNE.", hän tarkoitti että Jumalan (Islamilainen) Valtakunta (=Islamin usko) tuli niin myöhään Jeesuksen ajan jälkeen ja oli niin iso ja levinnyt jo hyvin pian syntymänsä jälkeen, että SITÄ TODELLA EI VOINUT TARKKAILLA, ainakaan he jotka kuulivat Jeesuksen sanovan näin! Ei voinut sanoa että se on ”täällä” tai ”tuolla”, kun se oli joka paikassa (Espanjasta Kiinan rannikolle). Kun Jeesus sanoi että katsokaa, Jumalan valtakunta on teidän KESKELLÄNNE, hän tarkoitti että Jumalan valtakunta muodostuu uskovista, jokaisen valtion perusyksikkö on kansalainen. Jumalan valtakunta on aivan yhtä "jumalallinen" kuin sen kansalaiset ovat vahvoja uskossaan ja siinä miten hyvin he seuraavat sitä oikein. Juutalaiset muodostivat maailman ensimmäisen teokratian, jossa Jumala oli tärkein asia valtiossa. Juutalaisillakin oli siis mahdollisuus "löytää Jumalan Valtakunta" ja olla osa sitä ihan vain uskomalla oikein ja toimimalla sen mukaan. Juutalaiset olivat tosin harhautuneet, mitä Jeesus tuli korjaamaan. Mutta ymmärrät nyt varmaan mitä Jeesus tarkoitti."Minä avaan suuni ja puhun vertauksin, tuon julki sen, mikä on ollut salattua maailman luomisesta saakka." Eli olisikohan kyseessä yksijumalaisuus, Islam, jonka (lopullinen) tulo on ollut salattua maailman luomisesta asti, että edes saatana ei osaisi valmistautua siihen...? (25)

Onko Jumala oikeudenmukainen historiamme valossa? Onko Hän reilu? Koraanin mukaan Hän on Armollinen, mitä Allah on, ilman Häntä kukaan ei olisi syntynyt eikä varsinkaan kukaan pelastuisi ikuiseen elämään. Sekä Koraani että Jeesus Raamatussa sanoivat joidenkin saavan osansa tässä maailmassa, ja joidenkin vasta seuraavassa.

Koraanissa useissa kohdin joissa Allah uhkaa rangaistuksella "epäuskoisia" joille on "annettu/tuotu Islam", Hän uhkaa siis ainoastaan juuri niitä jotka Koraanin mukaan "hylkäävät Islamin/eivät usko Islamiin/eivät ota Islamia vastaan/kääntyvät Islamista". Eli siis niitä joille Islam on saatettu tiedoksi. Minusta aika reilua, tietämättömiä ei rankaista (siis myöskään nuorena kuolleita, aivojen uskonnollisista ja moraalisista päätöksistä vastaava etu-osa kehittyy vasta murrosiän lopussa/jälkeen).

Eli onko Islamin ja yleensäkin maailman etenemisessä nähtävissä jonkinlaista Islamin esilletuonnin nousua? Tälläisen evoluutiota ja kehitystä puhtaimmillaan olevan teorian minä historiasta olin löytävinäni:

Ensin oli ties mitä uskontoja valta-uskontona, kenties varoitus keisari yms. jumalineen. Sitten syntyi samoihin aikoihin yksijumalaiset zarathustralaisuus ja juutalaisuus, molemmat jäivät varsin pieniksi mutta silti kansojensa pää-uskonnoiksi, kuin testinä/varoituksena. Juutalaisuuden haarasta kristinuskosta tehtiin äärimmäinen varoitus harhaanmenon ja omien lisäilyjen vaarasta, eräänlainen pakana-uskonto oikean uskonnon sisään, mikä pitää vain tajuta Raamatusta. Sitten rymäytettiin kunnolla kerralla todella yksijumalainen uskonto. Evoluutiota?

Sitten päästään asiaan Islamin myötä:

Islamin eteneminen oli ennen näkemätöntä, 70 vuodessa sama sukupolvi Espanjasta Kiinaan ja Intiaan tuotiin uskonnon vaikutuspiiriin. Mutta kuten evoluutiolla käy, se ei jäänyt siihen. Voisiko olla "reilua Tuomiota" joka ottaisi huomioon eri lähtökohdat ja tasoittaisi peliä olosuhteiden muutosten mukaan? Siihen minusta viittaa nämä sanat:

YUSUFALI: Those who believe (muslims), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah (Jumala arabiaksi myös kristityille) and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Eli siis HYVÄT Kirjankansojen jäsenet pelastuvat (huomioikaa että Koraanissa "Kirjankansoista" puhuttaessa ei välttämättä tarkoiteta niiden uskovaisia, vaan yleensäkin niitä kansoja, eihän Allah edellytä väärää uskoa tietenkään keneltäkään jos se ei ole edes älyllisesti pitävää).

Kehitin teorian joka on ajan, tuomion, uskon ja ihmisen evoluutiota:

Tuomion "0-vaihe"= Lähes kaikki pelastuvat.

"1-Vaihe"= Pelastus rajoittuu lähinnä hyviin/tietämättömiin, ja niihin joita harhauttaa tietämättömyys/olosuhteet.

"2-Vaihe"= Pelastus rajoittuu lähinnä hyviin/tietämättömiin.

"3-Vaihe"= Pelastus rajoittuu lähinnä tietämättömiin (varsinkin hyviin sellaisiin ehdottomasti).

"Super-vaihe"= Pelastus rajoittuu entistä enemmän suppeammalle "tietämättömien" joukolle kuin aiemmin (tiedon ja mahdollisuuksien lisääntyessä), lähinnä juuri lapsiin/nuoriin ja (henkisesti) vajaisiin.

Historiassamme hahmottelin tämän kokonaisuuden menneen näin (muistakaa että yksittäinen henkilö voi enemmistöstä poiketen olla missä vaiheessa vain):

"0-VAIHE": ISLAMIN LEVIÄMINEN, n. 570-1100 jKr. (suurelle osalle Euroopan kristitystä väestöstä) / n. 570-1500 jKr. (Aasian/Afrikan väestöstä).

Tässä vaiheessa Koraani (ja mm. sen tieteitä käsittelevät kohdat) oli kaikista eniten hämäränpeitossa, tämän (eurooppalaisten) ajan aikana edes sen kaikki ennustukset ihmisten/valtioiden tulevista toimista eivät olleet vielä toteutuneet.
Yksilön saavuttaminen oli vähäisempää, lukutaidottomuus enemmän sääntö kuin poikkeus ja varsinkin alkuun myös kielierot valtavat (pitkään aikaan arabit eivät edes antaneet kääntää Koraania muille kielille). Muslimit myös pysyivät omissa oloissaan enemmän, Islamiin "kääntyneen" piti yleensä "adoptoitua" arabien perheisiin. Paikallisia "kääntyneitä" oli muslimien hallitsemilla alueilla paljon vähemmän kuin myöhemmin kertomassa uskostaan muillekin.
Tuomiota jossain määrin kuitenkin (niille joille Islam "annettu", mutta hylänneet sen) muslimien hallitsemilla mailla K-Aasiasta L-Idän ja P-Afrikan kautta Espanjaan ja Sisiliaan asti. Tuomiota myös hallitsijoille ja katolisen kirkon päämiehille ja papistoille, jos mahdollisuus tutustua Islamiin ja Koraaniin (ja varsinkin sen vääristelystä/pimittämisestä kansalle).

"1-VAIHE": RISTIRETKIEN AIKA, n. 1100-1500 jKr. (kristityt) / (Aasia/Afrikka) 1500-1800 jKr.

Tuhannet ristiretkeläiset saapuivat muslimien keskuuteen asumaan Lähi-Idässä ja Espanjassa valloitusten myötä (Espanjasta muslimit karkoitettiin n. 1500 jKr.). Myös niiden myötä Jeesuksen mainitsema "hedelmistään te puun tunnistatte" alkaa hahmottumaan selkeämmin kr.uskoa vastaan. Myös Musta Surma ristiretkien jälkeen nähtiin selkeästi Jumalan rangaistuksena (kristityille).
Jumalanpalveluksien kieli edelleen latina ja kansa lukutaidotonta, jolloin syntiä ei heille mennyt koska he eivät nähneet itsekään Raamatusta mitä valetta kr.usko on, mutta papisto jotka pelkäsivät Islamia ja siksi pimittivät Raamattua jo ihan toisessa asemassa. Samoin (ristiretketkin organisoineet) vallassa olijat EIVÄT ole "hyviä" uskonkiihkostaan huolimatta (jos Jeesuksen sanoista jotain sen suuntaista voi tulkita niin huh huh, vaikkakin Raamatussa on käsky "pakottakaa heidät sisälle" jolla paljon perusteltiin).
Vaihe käytännössä lähes päättyy koko Eurooppaa järisyttäneeseen uutiseen turkkilaisten Konstantinopolin ja Bysantin Balkanin valloittamisesta, ainakin lähtee loppuluisuun (ihmisten tajuttua ajan myötä sen olevan lopullista).

"2-Vaihe": UUSI AIKA, n. 1500-1970 jKr. (kristityt) / n.1800-2000 luvulle (Aasia/Afrikka)

Muslimien karkoitusta Espanjasta seurasi katseiden kääntäminen Amerikkaan seuraavana miekka-lähetyksen kohteena. Seurauksena kymmenien miljoonien ihmisten kulttuurien tuho. Yksi tahra lisää kr.uskolle. Lisää tuli: Uskonsodat sadaksi vuodeksi (Saksan väestöstä kolmannes, 5 miljoonaa, kuoli), ja myöhempinä vuosisatoina ihmiskunnan verisimmät sodat. Pimeä aika paremminkin kuin "uusi aika", massamurhan aika. Tasoa ja odotuksia/vastuuta oli jo nostettu.
Vastapainona Turkin ottomaanien imppeeriumin kukoistus (kulttuurissa, taloudessa, jne.). levinneisyys syvälle Eurooppaan ja voima.
Suurin muutos kristityille tapahtuu kuitenkin lukutaidon yleistymisessä ja uskonnon tulemisessa kansankielelle (ettei enää menty vain pappien valehtelujen/vääntelyjen/tulkintojen mukaan). Se nostaa jonkin verran ennestään hyvin matalalla ollutta rimaa. Teollistuminen lisää elintasoa, matkustamisen mahdollisuuksia (mm. muslimi-maihin) ja tuo sanomalehdet/kirjat yleisiksi, eli lisää tiedon määrää ja tasoa. 1900-luvulla Koraanin käännökset yleistyivät Euroopan kielille (suomeksi 1940-luvulla), jolloin poistui pelastuksen tuojana osaamattomuus kielissä.
Tämän ajan päätöksen voimme nähdä Vietnamin sodan aikoihin, massa-media televisioineen teki lopullista läpimurtoa länsimaissa ja ohjelma-tarjonta alkoi monipuolistua entisestään. 70-luvulla USA:ssa alkoi näkymään muslimeita huntuineen ja partoineen runsaasti katukuvassa, kuten Euroopassa hieman jo ennen sitä. Eli Islam oli tuotu näkyvästi myös heidän keskuuteen, Koraanin käännösten lisäksi. Öljy-kriisin myötä kaikki ymmärsivät muslimien määräävän myös heidän elämästään.
Tässä loppu-vaiheessa Koraanin tieteisiin liittyvät kohdat alkoivat olla jo selkeästi nähtävissä ja ymmärrettävissä tieteiden kehityttyä ja muslimeidenkin enemmän paneuduttua siihen. Tosin tieteen tutkimusten ja Koraanin yhtäläisyydet eivät olleet vielä yleisesti laajemmin tiedossa, vaikkakin asiasta tehtiin esitelmiä ja videointeja, jopa väittelyitä eriuskoisten välille videoille/kirjoihin (mm. moskeijoille).

"3-VAIHE": MUSTAVALKOISESTA VÄRILLISEEN MAAILMAAN 1970-2000 luvulle (kristityt) - 2000-lukua tulevaisuuteen tästä päivästä (Aasia/Afrikka)

Media ja tieto lisääntyvät räjähtäen. Videot tulevat uskontoa ja tiedettä käsittelevine ohjelmineen. Maailman kauneus tulee värillisestä televisiosta hienommin esiin.
Ateistinen NL kaatuu, ja monen kristityn tai vähemmän uskovaisen "kristityn" ei tarvitse enää stressata päätään että onko oikein (todistaako Jumalaa vastaan) että venäläiset entisten kristittyjen jälkeläiset eivät pelastu koska heidät aivopestään kommunismin ateismiin (muslimit puolestaan eivät edes halunneet lopettaa systeemiä, vaan K-Aasian valtiot halusivat pysyä siinä NL:ssa, kun vain Allah päättää kenen määrä pelastua, kenen ei, Allah kun teki toisista turkkilaisista kansoista itsenäisessä Turkissa maallisempia vaikka eivät olleetkaan ateistisessa valtiossa, vain sekulaarisessa).
Neuvostoliiton hajoaminen ja yleisen karttatiedon lisääntyminen paljastaa myös pitkästä aikaa Islamin enkelin/linnun muodon maailmankartalla, kun Keski-Aasian muslimi-valtiot muodostavat sen toisen siiven Afrikan siiven lisäksi (Turkki pää, L-Itä vartalo, Saudi-Arabia pyrstö). Nyt siis Islam on tuotu selkeästi myös hahmottamis-tehtäväksi, "sokeille".
Elintaso ja viihde-teollisuus (lisäten elämänlaatua) parantuvat huimasti, tietokoneet ja internet vain lisäävät mahdollisuuksia onkia kaikki tieto Islamista ja myös sen yhteyksistä tieteen tutkimuksiin. Tässä (loppu-)vaiheessa Koraanin ja tieteen tutkimukset ovat internetistä kaikkien saatavilla.
Koulutus on yleissivistävää peruskoulua jopa Suomessa, ei enää kansakoulua (olenkin sitä mieltä että monet kansakoulun käyneet kieliä osaamattomat ovat vielä edellisessä vaiheessa, ei heitä oikein voi edes syyttää Koraanin käännöksen hylkäämisestä kun ne kaikki suomeksi ovat enemmän tai vähemmän surkeita ja harhaankin johtavia). Kansainvälisyys ja matkustelu on yleistä, myös suvaitsevaisuus (ei ole enää "hail-hitler" mentaliteettia muita kansallisuuksia kohtaan).

"SUPER-VAIHE": 2000-luvun tulevaisuutta, lähitulevaisuutta länsimaalaisille kristityille.

Internet yleistyy jokaiseen talouteen, viimeisetkin Koraanin tieteisiin liittyvät kohdat selkenevät lopullisesti (asiaa tutkiville) ihmisille. Kehitys saavuttaa myös nekin vähemmän kehittyneet maat, joissa Islam ei ole vielä suuri uskonto.
Muslimit ja Islam edelleen yleistyvät, ja muslimi-vähemmistö Euroopassa pääsee samalle tasolle suhteessa enemmistöön jolla se on ollut Intiassa ja Kiinassa jo vuosituhannen (tosin paljolti omilla alueillaan). Uusi tilanne, muslimit kristittyjen hallinnon alamaisina kristittyjen omissa maissaan. Muslimit karkoittaneiden espanjalaisten jälkeläiset näyttävät valloitus-suuntautumisensa kansoittamalla USA:n.
Tulevaisuudessa kenties teknologia entisestään parantaa yleissivistystä ja oppimista koulutuksessa. Kiinan ja USA:n avattua Koraanin "taivaiden rajat" (joiden läpi meidän käsketään kulkea jos pystymme) ihmisille tarjoillaan luomisen kauneimpia näkymiä avaruudessa ja toisilla planeetoilla matkustettaessa. Koraanissa ei ole enää sellaista mihin se voisi kaatua tulevaisuudessa, jopa "oviaukot taivaissa" (mustat aukot/madonreiät) on mainittu. Mutta samalla epäilemättä myös maallistuminen tulee lisääntymään vastapainona...
Aivan kuten tulevaisuudessa joillakin uusilla mahdollisilla planeetoilla asuvat, myös amerikkalaisten voi katsoa olevan samoin nykyisiä eurooppalaisia varhaisemmassa tasojen vaiheessa, kuin suomalaisilla jotka vielä "kansakoulu tasolla", voi sanoa että Amerikkaan siirtolaiseksi meneminen (kauemmas Islamista ja muslimeista, alkeellisempiin oloihin) lykkäsi osan eurooppalaisten tuomioista yhdellä "vaiheella" alaspäin. Näin varsinkin espanjalaisilla Amerikoissa syntyneinä, joiden esi-isät karkoittivat muslimit Espanjasta (Espanjassa syntynyt ei voinut eikä edelleenkään voi sivuuttaa/olla huomaamatta maan Islamilaista menneisyyttä moskeijoineen ja rakennustyyleineen, nykyisin lukuisine siirtolaisineenkaan).
Kun katsoo useiden USA:n kansalaisten tyhmyyttä mm. televisiosta, tulee miettineeksi että millähän tuomion "tasolla" ne vieläkään liikkuu, yleinen tietämättömyys näyttäisi olevan sitä luokkaa.

Kaupungistuminen on myös ollut tärkeää Islamille näissä kehityksen tasoissa. Nimittäin kaupungit keräävät ihmisiä laajoilta alueilta yhteen, ulkomaita myöten. Nämä ihmiset vaihtavat ideoita ja vaikutteita, siis myös uskontoja, ja vievät niitä takaisin omille asuinalueilleen. Kaupungeissa myös suurempi valinnan vara voi taata mm. uskonnon harjoittamisen ja levittämisen mahdollisuudet. Myös mahdollisuudet löytää uskonto ovat suuremmat keinojen ja valinnan mahdollisuuksien suhteen (yleensä kaupungista löytyy ainakin jostakin esim. kirjasto tai kirjakauppa uskonnollisine kirjoineen, moskeija tai netti-kahvila, edes muslimi-ravintola tai joku saman uskonnon kantaväestöstä erottuva jäsen).

Nämä kaupungistumisen vaiheet eri maissa voi myös jakaa suurpiirteisesti eri alueisiin (jätän käsittelemättä muslimien/suhteessa paljon muslimeita sisältävät maat ja alueet, koska niillä on paljon muslimeita sekä maalla että kaupungissa, jolloin nämä "tasot" menevät enemmänkin ylemmässä kirjoituksessa mainitun mukaan):

1. Kaupungistuminen pientä (7-50%, lukuunottamatta aavikoiden ja sademetsien kaupungistumista lisääviä rajoituksia) mutta kasvavaa, valtio ja ihmiset hyvin köyhiä (BKT. n. 0-5000 $/vuosi/asukas rikkaimpia ja suurtilallisia, sekä kansaa hyödyttämättömiä luonnonvaroja lukuunottamatta), maassa vain vähän muslimeita suhteessa väkilukuun (n. 0.1-1%, lukuunottamatta pohjoisen/itäisen Kongon 10% maan asukkaista) ja nekin vähät keskittyneenä suurimpiin kaupunkeihin.
Näitä maita pääsääntöisesti ovat Kamerunin, Keski-Afrikan ja Ugandan eteläpuolella sekä Tansanian länsipuolella sijaitsevat maat (lukuunottamatta Etelä-Afrikan vauraimpia alueita), samoin monet latinalaisen Amerikan maat ja Bhutan, Laos ja P-Korea Aasiasta. Näissä maissa kaiken järjen mukaan "tietämättöminä" ja "hyvinä kristittyinä" pelastuvia on valtavasti, Islam on harvan ulottuvilla. Pelastuvien lukua kasvattavat mm. nälän, malarian, AIDS:in ja tsetse-kärpäsen miljoonat vuosittaiset nuorena kuolleet uhrit.
Muuten samanlaisia mutta pohjoisessa/idässä paljon muslimeita maalla sekä kaupungissa omaavia maita on Länsi-Afrikan etelä-osissa ja Itä-Afrikassa. Länsi-Afrikassa muutto yleistä etelän rannikon ei-muslimien kaupunkeihin, Itä-Afrikassa ihmiset muuttavat muslimien rannikon kaupunkeihin.

2. Yli puolet väestöstä kaupungeissa (50-90%), niiden kasvu kovaa, teollistuminen ja vaurastuminen nousussa (BKT n. 5000-10000 $/vuosi/asukas). Tekniikka ja internet leviävät. Maassa vain vähän/jonkin verran muslimeita (n.0.1-2%, lukuunottamatta mm. pienen Surinamin 25%), keskittyen kaupunkeihin.
Tälläisia maita ovat monet Latinalaisen Amerikan maat, ja kenties vauraimmat Afrikan ja Aasian kehittyneimmät kehitysmaat (joissa vähän muslimeita), kuten E-Korea. Brasiliassa on n. 1,5 miljoonaa muslimia, Argentiinassa 0.5 miljoonaa, lähinnä kaupunkeihin pakkautuneena kuten muukin väestö (alueen köyhimmissä maissa ollaan lähempänä kohdan 1. kuvailtua tilannetta). Täällä 2.vaiheen (kaupungeissa) ihmisillä alkaa olemaan jo paremmin mahdollisuuksia tehdä valintansa, myös kristinusko vähemmän animistisena kuin Afrikassa tuo heidät lähemmäs Islamia.

3. Väkirikkaimmat kehitysmaat (BKT 1000-10000$) joissa varsin paljon muslimeita (n.5-20%), muslimitkin liikkuvat maalta kaupunkeihin samassa maassa, kaupungistuminen 30%-80%. Teollistuvia ja vaurastuvia. Tekniikka ja internet leviävät ainakin kaupungeissa.
Näitä ovat Aasian enemmistöltään ei-Islamilaiset maat (lukuunottamatta Pohjois-Korea, Laos ja Bhutan, jotka kuuluvat 1.vaiheeseen). Näissä maissa Islam on ollut jo kauan. Islam kuitenkin tavoittamattomissa lukuisissa paikoissa maalla. Muistuttavat kahden edellisen vaiheen maita paitsi muslimien suuressa määrässä.

4. Teollisuus-maat, vauraita (BKT 10000- yli 30000$) ja Islam/muslimit (n.0.5%-10%) keskittyy kaupunkeihin kuten n. 80%-97% muustakin väestöstä. Teknologia ja liikkuvuus ulottavat Islamin myös maalle. Suuri mahdollisuus tehdä valinta.

Näillä mittareilla katsottuna onko ihme että vaurastuminen on alkanut Kiinassa ja Thaimaassa, joiden muslimi-vähemmistö on pienimpiä (n.10%) Aasian 3.ryhmän maista suhteessa muuhun väestöön? Seuraavaksi loogisin askel olisi Intian vaurastuminen (15-20% muslimeita), ottaen huomioon maan valtavan väestön (jolloin sen liikkumisen ylöspäin asteikossa nopeasti luulisi olevan tärkeää Allahille).

Posted by moon2/koran at 3:33 PM EEST
Updated: Wednesday, 28 September 2005 5:23 PM EEST
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Arabit mahdollisesti löysivät Amerikan ennen viikinkejä ja Columbusta (jopa satoja vuosia ennen molempia), voi kuulostaa villiltä arvaukselta, mutta faktat puhukoot puolestaan:

Kun Islamin synnyttyä ja profeetan kuoltua alkoi Arabien ekspansio johtuen sodasta Bysanttia vastaan, he etenivät Marokon ja Espanjan rannikoille muutamassa vuosikymmenessä. Siihen mennessä arabit tekivät laivoillaan jo idässä kauppamatkoja Intiaan, Indonesiaan ja Kiinan eteläiselle rannikolle asti (lähinnä Canton). He siis ymmärsivät että maailma jatkuu myös idässä horisonttia pidemmälle, miksei siis lännessäkin. He näkivät erilaisen tähtitaivaan ja huomasivat mm. että pohjantähti häviää taivaanrannan taakse. He olivat taitavia tekemään karttoja ja mittaamaan etäisyyksiä/kulmia, ja olivat varmasti huomanneet maan pyöreydestä hyviä merkkejä. Myös Marokon ja Espanjan rannikolta taivaanranta näyttää kaartuvalta, mikä viittaa pyöreyteen, eivätkä he varmasti halunneet pysäyttää etenemistään Marokon/Espanjan rannikolle.

Maan pyöreyteen viittaa (39:5) mm. Koraanin kohta jossa kerrotaan Allahin "käärivän" maan yöhön ja päivään, ja kyseinen verbi tarkoittaa turbaanin käärimistä. Kun katsoo avaruudesta maan yön ja päivän vaihtelua, se on kuin turbaanin liinojen pyörittämistä pään ympäri, miten yön ja päivän alueet liikkuvat.

Siksi siis arabit lähtivät tutkimaan (Allahin kunniaksi riskejä ottaen), heitä ajoi Amerikkaan lisäksi purjehtiminen Länsi-Afrikan rannikkoa pitkin, josta lähtee sopivasti (espanjalaisten ja portugalilaisten myöhemminkin käyttämät) merivirrat jotka vievät Brasilian ja E-Amerikan rannikoille.

Miksi mitään merkkiä tai tietoa heidän löydöistään ei jäänyt meille? Kuten tiedämme, arabit tunsivat "näkymättömien pieneliöiden" (bakteerit ja virukset) kautta tarttuvat taudit jo 700/800-luvuilla, 800-luvuilla lähes jokaisessa paikassa oli (usein Moskeijoiden yhteydessä) ilmaisia sairaaloita joissa jokaiselle taudille oli omat osastonsa tartuntojen välttämiseksi, myös profeetta oli asettanut hadithissaan "karanteenin" eli kiellon mennä muihin kaupunkeihin sairaana.
Kun arabit saapuivat Amerikkaan heille kävi samoin kuin Kolumbukselle, joka saapuessaan ensimmäiselle Karibian saarelle tietämättään/tahtomattaan tapatti "vanhan mantereen" tauteihin kaikki saaren asukkaat. Espanjalaiset eivät ymmärtäneet mistä oli kyse tai kiittivät kr.uskon Jumalaa, mutta arabit totesivat kaiken edistyksen (uskonnon/kaupan/politiikan puolesta) Amerikassa mahdottomaksi alkuperäisväestön kuollessa käsiin.
Niinpä Amerikan löytäneet arabit sopivat ettei löydöstä puhuta kenellekään, edes toisille arabeille, koska he halusivat suojella "intiaaneja" (Islamin mukaan heidän pelastumisensa Islamista "tietämättöminä" oli käytännössä varmempi kuin edes muslimeiksi syntyneillä, joilla on riski hylätä Islam). Arabit varmasti lisäksi arvasivat aina sotaisten ja valloitushaluisten kristittyjen innon uutta manteretta kohtaan, jolloin oli moninkertainen syy pitää asia salassa (jolloin Allah Islamin mukaan palkitsee enemmän kuin teoillaan kehuvaa). Arabit kenties pelottelivat jopa eurooppalaisia ”merihirviöillä” ja ”maan reunalla”, Granadan linnakkeen sortuminen 1492 on myös kuin symbolista.
Arabit siis epäitsekkäästi auttoivat Incojen, Mayojen ja Atsteekkien (+niiden joista tiedämme vähän kuten Amatzonin miljoonat ihmiset yhtenäiskulttuurissaan) kulttuurit kukoistamaan, kunnes espanjalaiset tulivat ja tapahtui juuri mitä pelättiin, yli 95% intiaaneista kuoli (ei pelkästään sairauksiin joita levitettiin tarkoituksellakin, vaan myös sotiin, käännytykseen ja orjuuteen).Tarinan opetus on siis tämä:

Arabit totesivat kämminsä, olevansa väärässä paikassa väärään aikaan (aivan kuten monesti "mustassa Afrikassa" keihäitä väistellessä) ja lähtivät sieltä. Mitä espanjalaiset tekivät? Näkivät häikäilemättömästi mahdollisuutensa. Kirkon ja hallitsijan, ja ennen kaikkea oman edun. Kirkon koska he eivät uskoneet Jumalan pitävän huolta kaikista lapsistaan, vaan heittävän ne helvettiin kasteen puuttumisen takia. Jälki oli karmivaa, ja lapsia kasteen jälkeen tapettiin jotta heistä ei tehtäisi enää pakanoita (nykyisin mm. Guatemalassa ristit kannetaan jouluksi ulos ja alttarille tulee uhrituli).
Onkin hyvä siis kysyä väliin että ovatko Amerikan ”löytänyt” (ja samaan aikaan muslimit maastaan karkottanut) Espanja ja nykyinen ("länsimainen") sekä tulevaisuuden sekulaarinen yhteiskunta (haditheissa mainintoja että tulee aika jolloin vain 1/100 tai 1/1000 [aikuisiksi valintaan kykenevistä kasvaneista] pelastuu suoraan, ainakin ilman helvetissä ensin käymistä, tietenkin se voi olla jo nykyiset länsimaat kuten Suomi joissa vain harvat löytävät Islamin, AIKA JA PAIKKA OVAT SIDOKSISSA TOISIINSA, tai tulevaisuutta toisilla planeetoilla, tai ydinsodan/meteorin tuhojen jälkeen suojassa selvinneet lähinnä ei-muslimit) millään tavalla mahdollinen vertaus ja opetus Allahilta (kuten vaikkapa ristiretkien ja "mustan surman" yhteys tai moni muista)? Natsien nostaminen valtaan ja muutamat muut (sekulaarisen-)demokratian ilmeiset ongelmat vääjäämättä antavat ikävän kuvan mitä hirvityksiä saatamme vielä luoda joskus jossain, kommunismi ja natsit kuulostavat ehkä silloin enkeleiltä. Tulevaisuudessa kun saatamme asua useimmilla planeetoillakin, jonka esimerkin, Amerikan asuttamisen, voi nähdä kuin Allahin armona (muslimit Espanjasta karkottaneiden jälkipolville) laittaen tarpeeksi kauas Islamista pelastumaan ”tietämättömänä” (tai sitten Raamatun, ei Islamin, mukaisena Jumalan rangaistuksena tuleville sukupolville ”isien pahoista teoista” vieden vielä kauemmas Islamista, tiedostaen sen 800-vuotisen Islamilaisen historian omaavana kansana). Nykyään vaikuttaisi että P-Amerikassa on mahdollisuudet tutustua helposti Islamiin, E-Amerikassa jopa lukutaidottomuus on yleistä (joten pelastus on todella ”köyhien ja vähäisten”).
Todellinen pointti eli opetus on siis lopulta oikeastaan tämä:

30:41 ja 7:31 Allah varoittaa meitä mm. saastuttamisen ja korruption (taantumisen) vaaroista, ketäkö se koskee?
(13:15) ”Ja kuka tahansa joka on taivaissa tai maassa tottelee Allahia ainoastaan, halukkaasti tai haluttomasti, ja niin myös heidän varjonsa aamulla ja yöllä”
(3:83) ”Toistako kuin Allahin uskontoa he etsivät (seurattavaksi), ja Hänelle alistuu jokainen joka on taivaissa tai maassa, halukkaasti tai haluttomasti, ja Hänelle tulevat he palaamaan.”
(45:3) ”Todellakin, taivaissa ja maassa on merkkejä heille jotka uskovat.”

Joku varmaan kysyy että väitänkö seuraavaksi arabien menneen kuuhun ensin (vaikka se heidän lipuissaan olikin)? Ikävä kyllä en, koska siirtomaa-perilliset (lähinnä jenkit) lähetys-saarnaajineen saivat kunnian aloittaa avaruuden valloituksen. Ei ikävää ehkä heille, mutta kyllä varmasti niille joita he löytävät, jos vanhat merkit pätevät.

(17:95) Vastaa: »Jos olisi sopivaa, että maan päällä vaeltaisi enkeleitä, olisimme kyllä lähettänyt heille enkelin sanansaattajaksi.» (26)

Posted by moon2/koran at 3:22 PM EEST
Updated: Wednesday, 28 September 2005 5:25 PM EEST
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"minä menen ylös, minun Isäni tykö ja teidän Isänne tykö, ja minun Jumalani tykö ja teidän Jumalanne tykö." (Joh.20:17)

John.8:28 "Sitten kun olette korottaneet Ihmisen Pojan (jumalaksi), te ymmärrätte, että minä olen se joka olen (profeetta,ihminen) ENKÄ TEE MITÄÄN OMIN NEUVOIN (vain siis Allahin luvalla), vaan puhun niin kuin Isä on minua opettanut (ohjannut/käskenyt)."

John.6:57 "Isä, joka elää, on minut LÄHETTÄNYT, ja niin kuin MINÄ SAAN ELÄMÄNI ISÄLTÄ, ..."


"Ensimmäinen [käsky] on tämä: 'Kuule, Israel: Herra, meidän Jumalamme, Herra on yksi ainoa; ja rakasta Herraa, sinun Jumalaasi, kaikesta sydämestäsi ja kaikesta sielustasi ja kaikesta mielestäsi ja kaikesta voimastasi.... Oikein sanoit, opettaja, totuuden mukaan, että yksi hän on, ja ettei ketään muuta ole, paitsi hän. Ja rakastaa häntä kaikesta sydämestään ja kaikesta ymmärryksestään ja kaikesta voimastaan..." (Mark.12:28-34)


Ja hänen sieltä tielle mennessään juoksi muuan hänen luoksensa, polvistui hänen eteensä ja kysyi häneltä:
"Hyvä opettaja, mitä minun pitää tekemän, että minä iankaikkisen elämän perisin?"
Mutta Jeesus sanoi hänelle:
"Miksi sanot minua hyväksi? Ei kukaan ole hyvä paitsi Jumala yksin." (Mark.10:17-18)


Jeesus opetti että Jumala on ainoa ylistyksen arvoinen. Ketään muuta ei saa asettaa hänen rinnalleen. Ainoastaan Jumalaa tulee palvella ja kumartaen palvoa.

"Ja isäksenne älkää kutsuko ketään maan päällä, sillä yksi on teidän Isänne, hän, joka on taivaissa." (Matt.23:9)

"Silloin Jeesus sanoi hänelle: "Mene pois, saatana; sillä kirjoitettu on: 'Herraa, sinun Jumalaasi, pitää sinun kumartaman (/kunnioittavan) ja häntä ainoastaan palvoman (worship eng.Raamatuissa).´" (Matt.4:10)


Jeesus ei toiminut oman tahtonsa tai omien halujensa mukaan, vaan hän noudatti kaikessa Jumalan hänelle antamia käskyjä (Joh. 5:30, 6:38, 10:18, 12:49, 15:10, Luuk.22:42, Mark.14:36).

"minä en kysy omaa tahtoani, vaan hänen tahtoaan, joka on minut lähettänyt" (Joh.5:30)

"Sillä minä olen tullut taivaasta, en tekemään omaa tahtoani, vaan hänen tahtonsa, joka on minut lähettänyt." (Joh.6:30)

Jeesus siis palveli Jumalaa, ja oli alamainen Jumalalle, mutta Jumala ei palvele Jeesusta. Islam tarkoittaa alistumista (submissiota) Jumalan tahtoon.


Jeesus uskoi kaikkivaltiaaseen ja kaikkivoipaan Jumalaan. Ei ole mitään mitä kaikkivaltias Jumala ei voi tehdä:

"Jumalalle on kaikki mahdollista" (Mark 10:27)

"Jumalalle ei mikään ole mahdotonta" (Luuk 1:37)

Jeesus opetti että hän itse ei ole kaikkivaltias, vaan ainoastaan Jumalan palvelija (Joh.5:19, 5:30). Jeesus ei aina pystynyt toimimaan kuten halusi (Mark.6:5). On olemassa myös Raamatun kohtia joista voidaan päätellä että Jeesus ei ole kaikkivaltias myöskään taivaassa (Matt.20:23, 1Kor.15:28).

"Poika ei voi itsestänsä mitään tehdä, vaan ainoastaan sen, minkä hän näkee Isän tekevän..." (Joh.5:19)

"En minä itsestäni voi mitään tehdä." (Joh.5:30)

"Ja hän ei voinut siellä tehdä mitään voimallista tekoa, paitsi että paransi joitakuita sairaita panemalla kätensä heidän päälleen." (Mark.6:5) + (Matt.13:58) ”Ja koska he eivät uskoneet häneen, hän ei tehnyt siellä montakaan voimatekoa”

Jumala yksin on kaikkitietävä, mutta Jeesus itse ei ollut kaikkitietävä sillä hän sanoi:

"Mutta siitä päivästä tai hetkestä ei tiedä kukaan, eivät enkelit taivaassa, eikä myöskään Poika, vaan ainoastaan Isä." (Mark.13:32)


"Te kuulitte minun sanovan teille: 'Minä menen pois ja palajan jälleen teidän tykönne.' Jos te minua rakastaisitte, niin te iloitsisitte siitä, että minä menen Isän tykö, sillä Isä on minua suurempi." (Joh.14:28)


Kristittyjen tulisi pitää Jeesusta esimerkkinään (Joh.13:15, Matt. 11:29) ja seurata hänen elämäntapaansa (Joh.14:6). Toisin sanoen, kristittyjen tulisi seurata profeetan sunnaa.

Kristityt rukoilevat istuen kädet ristissä istuen tai sängyssä makoillen. Jeesus sensijaan rukoili kuten muslimit. Jeesus rukoili polvillaan, kumartuen kasvoilleen maahan Jumalan tahtoon alistumisen merkiksi, kts Luuk.22:41, Matt.26:39, Mark.14:35, Matt.4:9, Ap.t.9:40. Islam tarkoittaa alistumista (submissiota) Jumalan tahtoon.

"Ja hän vetäytyi heistä noin kivenheiton päähän, laskeutui polvilleen ja rukoili" (Luuk. 22:41 )

"Ja hän meni vähän edemmäksi, lankesi kasvoilleen ja rukoili" (Matt. 26:39)

? Raamatussa on kohtia joista voidaan olettaa että Jeesus piti muslimien tapaan puhtautta hyveenä (Joh.12:3, 13:5,10).
* Jeesus paastosi (Matt.4:2).
* Jeesus tervehti muslimien tapaan sanoilla ”Rauha teille” (John.20:21, Matt.10:12)

Matt.15:9 "Turhaan he minua palvelevat (eng. Raamatussa "WORSHIP, palvovat"!), kun opettavat oppejaan, ihmisten tekemiä käskyjä."

Jos katsot alaviitteestä Jes.29:13, huomaat ettei Jeesus lainannut tätä kohtaa viittaamastaan Jesajan ennustuksesta. Siinä Jumala ei sano että Hänen palvelemisensa olisi turhaa, vaikka noudattaisikin "opittuja ihmiskäskyjä", sanoo vain antavansa tälle näin tekevälle kansalleen uudelleen ihmetekoja (viimeisen juutalaisille annetun profeetan, Jeesuksen, muodossa), jonka jälkeen vie siltä (ja siitä kasvaneelta Jeesus-kansalta) viisauden ja ymmärryksen.

Profeetan palvominen jumalana onkin jo aivan eri asia, silloin ei enää haittaa vaikka noudattaisi mitä tahansa käskyjä, ensimmäisessä virheessä on jo aivan tarpeeksi. Onneksi ”tietämättömät” kuten satoja vuosia ennen meitä eläneet eurooppalaiset ovat pelastuneet (mm. lukutaidottomina), toisaalta muslimeille testistä on tehty ilmeisesti sitä rankempi (taantumista entisestä kukoistuksesta) mitä enemmän todisteita (mm. Koraani/tiede) pystymme huomaamaan, ja muslimikin voi joutua helvettiin vaikkakin jokainen todella sydämmeltään muslimi (yksijumalainen) pääsee sieltä myös joskus pois kärsittyään oikeudenmukaisen (mahdollisen) rangaistuksensa.

Miksi Jeesus sanoi Jumalaa ”Isäksi” eikä ”Jehovaksi kuten muuta juutalaiset? Jumalaa ei voi sitoa yhteen nimeen, Hän on kuka Hän on, eikä kukaan voi ”Hän” tai ”minä olen” sanoilla tarkoittaa olevansa Hän koska Jumala on sen yläpuolella, Islaminkin mukaan Allahin lisäksi on 99 kuvailevaa nimeä. Jeesuksen äidinkielellä jumala on Al-Ilah, Ilah ja Allaahi, jotka ovat Jumala myös arabiankielessä. Jeesus ei myöskään varmasti halunnut jyrkentää Kirjankansojen tulevaa suhtautumista toisiinsa, etteivät he tappaisi toisiaan vain koska ovat erimielisiä Jumalan nimestä.

Ja niistä harvoista kristittyjen ”todisteista” Jeesuksen jumaluudesta (juutalaisethan odottivat kuningasta, hallitsijaa joka alistaa koko maailman juutalaisille):

Kun Jeesus sanoo olevansa ”TIE, TOTUUS ja ELÄMÄ”, ei tarvitse heti uskoa Jeesuksen siinä arvuutelleen ”jumaluuttaan” (aika moraalitonta ettei sanonut suoraan olevansa ainoa palvottava kun pelastuminen siitä kiinni), vaan katsoa sitä juutalaisuuden ja Islamin kautta. Jeesushan sanoi että kuka uskoo häneen, uskookin oikeastaan hänen lähettäjäänsä. Eli Jeesuksen ”TIE” on hänen esimerkkinsä (mm. otsa maassa polvillaan YHDEN Jumalan rukoilu, köyhien/heikkojen auttaminen, jne.), ”TOTUUS” on hänen opetuksensa yhdestä Jumalasta (mm. Mark.12:29 ”Kuule, oi Israel! Herra, Jumalanne, on YKSI Jumala.”) ja hänen oikeanlaisesta palvelemisesta, (iänkaikkinen ja täälläkin hyvä) ”ELÄMÄ” on sitä mitä saa kun tekee/uskoo kuten Jeesus opettaa.


Matt.8:9-13 Jeesus ilmoittaa ettei ole ”yhdelläkään israelilaisella nähnyt tälläista uskoa” kun sadanpäällikkö ilmoittaa VAIN OTTAVANSA ITSEKIN KÄSKYJÄ VASTAAN kuten Jeesuskin, eli kuten profeetta ottaa niitä vastaan Jumalalta, ei kuten ”Jumala itseltään” (rukoillen itseään?). Perään Jeesus sanoo Aabrahamin, Iisakin ja Jaakobin olevan taivaassa, mutta Paavali sanoo (Room.5:14) Aatamista Moosekseen asti kaikkien olleen ”kuoleman omia”, ja ”kuoleman” merkitys ei taida olla epäselvä huomioiden miten hän puhui ”elämästä kristuksessa”. Eli Jumala lähetti tänne profeettoja (jotka määrätty helvettiin) opettamaan ihmisille (jotka määrätty helvettiin) miten pelastutaan???


Joskus kuulee varsinkin kristittyjen syyttävän Islamin olevan ”saatanasta” (järjetöntä Jumalan tahdon/vallan aliarviointia, ”inkarnoituneen Jumalan” uskovat kääntyi siihen mm. P-Afrikassa ja Espanjassa, L-Idässä ja Turkissa?).

Matt.12:26-27 ”Jos saatana ajaa ulos saatanan, se on silloin noussut itseään vastaan. Kuinka sen valtakunta silloin voisi pysyä koossa?”

Eli SAATANAKO käskisi KUMARTAMAAN (syy miksi tämä enkeliksi korotettu ”dzinni” lensi pihalle aikanaan muutenkin, ei kumartanut Allahin käskystä) viisi (5) kertaa päivässä AABRAHAMIN JUMALAA??? Ja tottelemaan jo Raamatussa Jumalalta annettuja käskyjä (Islamissa monesti mm. vain sanamuodot erit) ??? Miksei Aabrahamin Jumala kelpuuttaisi niitä rukouksia??? Eikö Jeesuskin opettanut vain Aabrahamin Jumalasta, Isästä (ei edes Jehovasta)? (28)


Tässä muutama kohta missä muitakin profeettoja sanotaan Jumalan Pojiksi, ja perässä ketä kutsutaan niin ja miten:

2.Mooses,Exodus 4:22 (Israel[Jakob]) "...Israel (Jakob) on minun poikani, jopa ESIKOISENI.” (siis Jeesus ei ole ”esikoinen” tai ”ainoa poika”)

2.Samuel 7:13-14 tai 1.aikakirja (Solomon) "...Minä olen hänen Isänsä, ja hän on Poikani."

Jeremiah 31:9 (Ephraim) "Minä olen Israelin Isä ja Ephraim on minun esikoiseni." Eli kumpi olikaan esikoinen, Jaakob vai Ephraim?

Psalm.2:7 (Daavid) "...Herra on julistanut minulle (Daavid), Sinä olet Poikani..."

Aatami, jolla ei myöskään ollut isää eikä ÄITIÄKÄÄN, kuvataan UT:ssa Jumalan Pojaksi Luukas.3:38 :"...Seth, joka oli Aatamin lapsi, joka oli Jumalan Poika." (Aatamilla ei ollut isää eikä äitiä kumpaakaan, eikö se tee hänestä suurempaa “jumalaa” kuin Jeesuksesta?)

Lue nyt Hebrews 7:3 "...but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.". Vastaus kenestä puhutaan löytyy Hebrews 7:1 "Melchisedec, Salemin kuningas, ylimmän Jumalan pappi, joka tapasi Aabrahamin..." . Hän oli Raamatun mukaan ainutlaatuisempi kuin Aatami tai Jeesus, miksei häntä kutsuta jumalaksi?

2.Corianth 6:18 "... olemaan Isä teille, ja te tulette olemaan minun poikiani ja tyttäriäni, sanoi..."

Tavallinenkin kansa voi olla Jumalan lapsia, (5.Mooses,Deut.14:1 "Te olette Herranne, Jumalanne, lapsia.")+(Kirje roomal.8:29) minkä Jeesus vahvistaa Matteus 5:45/48:ssa, "että te voisitte olla taivaallisen Isänne lapsia" ja "Olkaa täten täydellisiä, aivan kuten Isänne taivaissa on virheetön.". Raamatussa Jeesus sanoo itseään (ja häntä sanotaan) profeetaksi, vain kahdessa kohtaa hän ITSE käyttää itsestään nimitystä Jumalan Poika. Hän on saattanut käyttää kyseistä vertausta tarkoituksella, tietäen että sitä ymmärtämättömästi tulkiten häntä tullaan perustelemaan Jumalaksi. Muistakaa että kr.usko on myös Jumalan tahto, jota Jeesus vilpittömästi toteutti.

Jeesus jopa kieltää sanomasta häntä Jumalan pojaksi, ensin demoneille Luuk.4:41 "...Sinä olet Kristus Jumalan Poika. Ja hän (Jeesus) nuhdellen näitä käski heitä olemaan puhumatta: sillä ne tiesivät, että hän oli Kristus."
ja myöhemmin omille opetuslapsilleenkin jopa Luuk.9:20-21 "Hän (Jeesus) kysyi heiltä (opetuslapset):Kuka sanotte minun olevan? Pietari vastasi: Jumalan Kristus (The Christ of God [eng. King James version]) , ja Jeesus välittömästi vastusti heitä, ja kielsi heitä sanomasta yhdellekään ihmiselle niin.". Islamin mukaan Jeesus oli viimeinen JUUTALAISILLE annettu profeetta (profeettoja lähetetty kaikille kansoille kaikkina aikoina tuhansia, aivan pienille kylä-yhteisöillekin), sillä Jeesus myös sanoi ettei ole ”tullut kuin Israelin kansan kadonneita lampaita varten”. On täysin idioottimaista kuvitella että Jumala olisi suosinut yhtä kansaa muiden yli, jopa niin pitkälle ettei ”Hänen kylässä käymisestäkään” omien sanojensa mukaan saisi kertoa muille kansoille. Ei, kaikki ihmiset ja kansat ovat tasavertaisia Hänen edessään.

Änkyttäjä, Paavali, oli se joka sotki juutalaisuutta tuntemattomille pakanoille Jumalan Poika vertauksen käsitteen tarkoittamaan profeetan sijasta Jumalaa: ap.teot.9:20 "Ja samantien hän (Paavali) saarnasi heille Kristuksesta synagoogissa, että hän oli Jumalan Poika.", mistä ilmenee että alkukristityt käyttivät synagoogia eivätkä kokeneet olevansa niin erillään juutalaisuudesta. Juutalaiset eivät ikinä olisi sallineet kenenkään palvoa synagoogissa ketään muuta kuin Jumalaa, opetuslasten JUUTALAISTEN keskuuteen perustamat alkuseurakunnat (lähetyskäsky: ..go to THE nations.. eli Israelin kansan 12 kansan luokse) siis pitivät Jeesusta profeettana eivätkä Jumalana. Tämä suuntaus tosin lähes tuhoutui v.66-70 Jerusalemin tuhossa ja vainoissa (viimeistään Islamin synnyttyä heidän siirtyessään seuraavaan profeettaan), ja vallitsevaksi jäi juutalaisuuden ulkopuolelle laajalle levinnyt Paavalin lahko.

Mutta koska juutalaisilla omiakin profeettoja kutsutaan kirjoituksissa ”Jumalan pojiksi” (Jeesuksen vastaus syytökseen että hän tekee itsestään jumalan: ”lukeehan kirjoituksissanne: `te olette jumalia´”), juutalaisten oli pakko ja velvollisuus itseään juutalaisiksi kutsuville Jeesuksen seuraajille antaa käyttöön synagoogia, vaikka he itse eivät hyväksyneetkään Jeesusta profeetaksi (oli muitakin profeettoja joita kaikki juutalaiset ei hyväksyneet, mutta silti heidät tunnustettiin juutalaisiksi), mikä on parhaimpia todisteita että juutalaiset Jeesuksen seuraajat pysyivät enemmistöltään vainoihin asti juutalaisina eivätkä lähteneet Jeesuksen palvontaan, vaan ottivat hänet profeettana (miten kr.uskon vaatimus pelastuksesta Jeesuksen jumaluuteen uskomisen kautta silloin toteutui, kun edes Jeesus ei käskenyt uskoa missään niin?).

Olen kääntänyt esimerkkini käyttäen apuna lähinnä englanninkielistä King James-raamatun versiota, koska se on laajimmalle levinnyt ja suosituin ja selvästi erilainen Sanan sisällön ja merkityksen kannalta kuin suomalainen käännös. Olen kirjoittanut koko kirjoituksen Word-ohjelmalla kirjain ”Verdana” (normal) ja koko 8, jos joku haluaa tulostaa ja levittää tätä tällaisenaan (pyydän rakkaat siskot ja veljet laittamaan tätä eteenpäin ja kenties kääntämäänkin tämän jos vain mahdollista, uskon tämän voivan auttaa monia, ins Allah). Muita mielenkiintoisia kohtia Raamatusta ovat jo monet muutkin Islamin ja Raamatun tuntevat oppineet tulkinneet erinomaisen loogisesti, joten pyrin pysymään kirjoituksessani niissä vertauksissa/ennustuksissa joita ei ole tulkittu vielä. Suosittelen tutustumaan (mm. netissä) näihin kirjoituksiin, sekä upeisiin Koraanin kohtiin joissa kerrotaan viimeisen parin sadan vuoden aikana tieteen selvittämiä asioita tieteen lähes kaikilta aloilta, varsinkin luonnontieteistä. Kannattaa myös hankkia Koraanin kokonaisuudessaan hyvillä laulajan/lausujan äänillä resetoivia cd-levyjä ym. vastaavia, sillä ilman arabian ymmärtämistäkin huomaa sen melodian ja äänirakenteet, joista koostuu tämä upea ”ohjekirja” jossa jokainen sana on paikallaan muodostaen juuri tietynlaisen melodisen rakenteen, sotkematta Kirjan ”juonta” (sanomaa), jollaista edes runonlausunnastaan ja tarinankerronnastaan tunnetut arabit eivät olleet ennen kuulleet, vaan tajusivat erittäin pian sen voivan olla vain Jumalalta.

Posted by moon2/koran at 3:20 PM EEST
Updated: Wednesday, 28 September 2005 5:28 PM EEST
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Koraanin mukaan Jeesusta ei juutalaiset tappaneet ristillä (eihän hän siihen kuollut, koska ”kuoli” [?] jo ennen sääriluiden katkaisemista Jumalan toimesta, ja roomalaiset teloittivat Jeesuksen, eli sikälikin oikein se kohta), vaan Jumala laittoi vain sen näyttämään siltä ja kaikki luulemaan niin, mutta pelasti hänet. Katso Raamatusta, löydät sieltäkin totuuden ristiinnaulitsemisesta. Eli Jeesus sanoo (Matt.12:38-40) että kyseiselle ”pahalle sukupolvelle” ainoa merkki mikä annetaan (asioiden ymmärtämiseksi, siksi merkit annetaan) on ”Joonaan merkki”, että ”NIIN KUIN Joonaa oli meripedon vatsassa niin Ihmisen poika on oleva maan povessa”, ja muista että Joonaa oli Raamatun mukaan valaan vatsassa 3 päivää ELOSSA, eli eikö silloin Jeesuksenkin pitäisi olla nämä 3 päivää elossa (jossain muualla (maan päällä?), eikä suinkaan kuollut tai helvetissä??? Eli Jeesus oli siis ”kuollut” op.lapsille ja kaikille muille vajain aistein näkevin ne välipäivät, paitsi Allahille ja itselleen.
Jeesus myös sanoi (Matt.7:7-11 ja Luuk.11:9-13) ”Joten sanon teille, kysy ja se annetaan… ei kait kukaan teistä ole sellainen ISÄ, että antaa POJALLEEN (vrt. ”Jumalan poika”) kiven kun tämä pyytää leipää, käärmeen kun tämä pyytää kalaa… Jos kerran te pahat ihmiset osaatte antaa lapsillenne kaikenlaista hyvää, niin totta kai teidän taivaallinen Isänne paljon ennemmin antaa taivaasta…”
Ja Jeesushan rukoili tuskanhikisenä (Matt.26:39) ”anna maljan mennä ohitseni” Jumalalta, siis ristin välttämistä, mutta ”ei niin kuin minä tahdon vaan kuten sinä tahdot”, eli kenties Jeesus olisi halunnut piiloutua etsijöiltään mutta Jumalan suunnitelma oli toinen, Hänellä oli toinen tapa sekä pelastaa hänet että toteuttaa tahtonsa rististä ja sen seurauksista. Eli jos Jumala ei kuunnellut Jeesuksen pyyntöä välttää risti, eikö silloin Jeesuksen lupaus ”auttavasta Jumalasta” tökkää jo siihen tärkeimpään ihmiseen, eikö silloin Jeesus olisi valehdellut (tai Jumala Jeesuksen kautta?)? Kysymys on samaa luokkaa kuin se että VT:n mukaan Jumala ei nuku, mutta Jeesus nukkui.
Luukkaan evankeliumeissa kerrotaan miten op.lapset eivät tunnistaneet elämänsä tärkeintä ihmistä ulkonäöltä 3 päivän eron jälkeen, vaikka nämä kaikki söivät yhdessä ja Jeesus oli vieraana oleva ”vieras”. Vasta kun Jeesus siunasi leivän, kiitti Jumalaa ja jakoi leivän op.lapset tunnistivat Jeesuksen tämän sanoista/teoista, jotka olivat täsmälleen samanlaiset kuin viimeisellä ehdollisella, ”ja heidän silmänsä aukenivat” (Luuk.24:31), mikä varsin hyvin todistaa että Jeesus sai uuden näköisen ruumiin ”sielulleen”/luonteelleen, ainakin op.lasten silmin (siltä näytti).
Ja Jeesus itse oli sanonut Raamatussa (Luuk.20:36-37) että kuolleiden "ruumiit" ovat henkisiä/sieluja, <<"36.He eivät enää voi kuolla, sillä he ovat ENKELEIDEN kaltaisia. 37.Ja sen että kuolleetkin nousevat ylös, on Mooseskin osoittanut kertomuksessaan..."!>> Englantilaisessa Raamatussa tämäkin kohta on kahta kertaa selkeämpi, että kuolleet ovat siis HENKIolentoja! Tätä vastaa hyvin selvästi myös Luuk.ev.(24:36-43) "38...Miksi teidän mieleenne nousee epäilyksiä? 39. Katsokaa minun käsiäni ja jalkojani, minä tässä olen: Koskettakaa minua, nähkää itse. EI HENGELLÄ (spirit) ole lihaa eikä luita, niin kuin te näette minussa olevan...", ja Jeesus vieläpä ilmaisee siinä nälkänsä ja syö !!!!
Islam ei kerro onko varmuudella länsimaista ”sielua” tai kuolemasta seuraavaa tilaa, vaan kertoo että kaikki luodaan uusiksi, ja että joidenkin testi on vasta kuoleman jälkeen (ja että myös haudassa voi olla palkinto/rangaistus).
Pitää muistaa että mm. ”epäilevän Tuomaksenkin” tapauksessa halutaan koskettaa Jeesuksen ”haavoja”, mutta missään ei edes mainita kyseisiä haavoja (tai että Tuomas kosketti niitä), Tuomas saattoi romahtaa maahan Jeesuksen näytettyä käsiään, ihan vain koska niitä haavoja ei ollut, tai koska uskoi sen Jeesukseksi.

Johanneksen evankeliumissa Jeesus uudelleen "ilmaantumisensa" yhteydessä (John.20:17) KIELTÄÄ Maria Magdaleenaa(!, nainen jolle Jeesus ilmestyi EKANA kaikista ihmisistä) koskemasta häneen <<(16..Maria kääntyi ja sanoi: "Rabbuuni" [OPETTAJANI, siis EI jumalani!]!... 17.Jeesus sanoi:" Älä koske minuun. Minä en ole vielä noussut Isän luo [kuollut!]. Mene sinä viemään sanaa VELJILLENI ja sano heille, että minä nousen OMAN Isäni ja TEIDÄN Isänne luo, oman JUMALANI[!] ja teidän JUMALANNE LUO.">>

Jos vieläkin uskot Jeesuksen kuolleen ristillä, lue Mooseksen Deut.13:5/21:22-23 joissa kuvaillaan väärän profeetan kohtalo, eli toisin sanoen Jeesuksen rooli vääränä profeettana jos hän olisi kuollut oikeasti ristillä. Mm. näihin kohtiin juutalaiset perustavat Jeesuksen hylkäämisen, koska he eivät pidä Jeesuksen kohtaloa kärsinyttä profeettana. Allah "huiputti" molempia, kristittyjä ja juutalaisia, ja niin jakoi Aabrahamin uskonnot Jeesuksella. Juutalaisilla ei siis ole enää syytä hylätä Jeesusta koska Islamin mukaan Jumala vain antoi heidän luulla, antoi sen näyttää ristiinnaulinnalta.
Jumala itse sen sanoo: (Hosea 6:6) "Minä haluan armoa, en uhrausta; ja tietoutta Jumalasta enemmän kuin poltto-uhria" ja Jeesus vahvistaa (Matt.9:13): "Mutta menkää ja oppikaa mitä tämä tarkoitti, minä haluan armoa, en uhrausta.." ja Jeesus kuvaa hyvin kristittyjen intoa tuomita muslimit(kin) helvettiin (mitä muslimi ei saisi tehdä KENELLEKÄÄN) (Matt.12:7): "Mutta jos olisitte tienneet mitä tämä tarkoitti, minä haluan armoa, en uhrausta, te ette olisi tuominneet syyttömiä..." (voisiko ”syyttömät” tarkoittaa muslimeita jotka eivät usko ”uhraukseen”?).
Mielenkiintoista on että Islam opettaa (mm. Koraani 4:157) että Jeesuksen ristiinnaulitseminen annettiin vain näyttää siltä, hänen tilalle ristille laitettiin toinen joka sen ansaitsi (hadith), jolle laitettiin Jeesuksen ”näköisyys” päälle (Jeesuksen ulkonäkö/hänen ruumiiseen?). Jos miettii kuka sen olisi ansainnut, tulee mieleen että Matteus ja Paavali antavat täysin erilaiset kuolemat Juudakselle (hirtti itsensä / suolet räjähtivät pellolle)..
Äläkä ihmettele kun Koraanissa Jeesus sanoo ”rauha minulle sinä päivänä kun kuolen/minut haudataan”, se tarkoittaa Jeesuksen seuraavaa tulemista (ihmisenä, ei salamoita heittelevänä maailman tuhoavana ”jumaluutena”), jonka jälkeen hänet haudataan muslimina ja maailma jatkaa menoaan vielä siitä eteenpäin. Jeesuksen jälkeen maailma alkaa jälleen menemään enemmän ja enemmän harhaan ja maalliseen, kunnes tulee loppu jonka ajankohtaa Jeesuskaan ei tiennyt Raamatussa (Mark.13:32). Mutta sen mitä Jeesus tiesi on tämä (perustuu varhaisimpien tallella olevien kreikankielisten Raamatuiden toiseen mahdolliseen, yhtä oikeaan, tapaan kääntää kyseinen kohta):
Matt.11:12 ”Johannes Kastajan päivistä asti Taivasten Valtakunta on ollut murtautumassa esiin, ja hyökkääjät tempaavat sen itselleen”
”Hyökkääjät” on täydellisesti arabien ja Islamin alle sadassa vuodessa (Espanjasta Kiinaan) levinneen vallan ja alueen symboli (valta varmin tapa varmistaa uskonnon jatkuvuus MUUTTUMATTOMANA), vaikka muslimit (ensin arabit ja idästä mongoleja paenneet turkkilaiset) eivät välttämättä aloittaneet sotia mm. aggressiivisen Bysantin kanssa.
Missä piilee lopulta Jeesuksen suurin merkitys tässä maailmassa Islamille? Se on siinä että hän muistuttaa muslimeita että Islam on lopulta kuitenkin rauhan ja suvaitsevaisuuden uskonto, kuten oli hänen viestinsäkin, ja siitä miten ihmisillä on taipumus tulkinnalla sotkea ja vääristää yksinkertaisinkin viesti. Ilman tätä muistutusta Islamin ja Koraanin tulkinta olisi voinut jo aikoja sitten mennä (paljon pahemmin ja laajemmin) siihen suuntaan josta olemme nähneet nykyisinkin paljon varoittavia esimerkkejä (väärinkäytöksistä),mikä puolestaan olisi voinut synnyttää erittäin väkivaltaisen ja suositun Islamin vastaisen ideologian, liikehdinnän. Ehkä sitä Jeesus tarkoitti puhuessaan rakkauden hukanneen kohtalosta ja viitatessaan rooliinsa siitä miten muuten ”yksikään ei pelastuisi”.....

Lisää myöhemmin:

Kristinusko on valloittanut ne alueet jotka (ennen ja jälkeen Islamin ovat olleet) Euroopassa, Amerikassa, Afrikassa ja Aasiassa (lähinnä Filippiineillä) ovat olleet perinteisimmin "ääri-pakanallisia", jos hindulaisuutta ja buddhalaisuutta ei lasketa perinteiseksi (äärimmäiseksi) pakanallisuudeksi. Nämäkin alueet on Raamatulla tuotu lähemäs Islamin näkemystä ja kulttuuria.

Miksi naiset voivat johtaa valtiota, jopa suositellusti? Profeetta sanoi hadithissaan että valtio ei yllä kukoistukseen/menestykseen naisen johtamana, joten eikö sellainen valtio pysy helpommin omien rajojensa sisällä, tarjoten kuitenkin mukavan ja kohtuullisen elintason? Mitä on ennustuksen "kukoistus"? Verrattuna mm. ensimmäisten kalifien (tietenkin aikaan suhteutettuna ja verrattuna äärimmäisen suuriin) valloituksiin ja Islamin tehokkaaseen levittämiseen, sekä tieteiden, kaupan, rauhan ja suvaitsevaisuuden uuteen sitä seuranneeseen kukoistukseen, yksikään HENKILÖ ei ole kyennyt samaan, eikä tule kykenemäänkään (todellisen) vallan oltua jo pitkään useamman kuin yhden ihmisen käsissä (ja vaikka kykenisi, kr.uskon levittäminen tuskin olisi sitä menestystä/kukoistusta mitä Muhammed tarkoitti, eikä Islamia juuri enempää voisikaan levittää enää).

Koira on "likainen" profeetan mukaan. Mitä hyötyä tästä kuvauksesta, oliko liian aikaista ymmärtää hygieniasta, kirpuista ja taudeista sekä siitä miten varsinkin musta koira nostaa (nuorten) ihmisten pelkoa jonka koira aistii, mahdollisesti siksi hyökäten? Onko kyse samasta aikaan sidotusta kuvailusta ja ohjailusta kuin käskyssä syödä oikealla kädellä ja käyttää vessassa vasempaa halveksinnan osoituksena sille että "saatana käyttää vasempaa kättään syömiseen"?

Hadith jossa määrätään kivitys rangaistukseksi aviossa pettämisestä yhdelle naiselle (ja naimattomalle huorin tehneelle pojalle raipasta ja maastakarkoitus) annettiin vanhan lain (mm. Raamatun ja arabien tavan) mukaan, koska Koraanin määräys 100 raipan iskusta aviossa pettäneelle tuli vasta sen jälkeen. Muuten nämä olisivat ristiriidassa, jolloin pitäisi mennä varmemman eli Koraanin mukaan.

Hinduismi on kuin kr.usko hauskemmassa ja oudoimmassa muodossa. Jos kr.usko olisi tullut 3000 tai 4000 vuotta sitten, se saattaisi olla hyvin samanlaista. Krishna-jumala koki Jeesus-lapsen kaltaisen pakolaisuuden hänen henkensä ollessa uhattuna ennustettuna tulevana hallitsijana, jolloin lehmästä tuli pyhä eläin tämän IMETETTYÄ "jumalaa" (!?!). Hinduismissa myös koirat huomaavat ja karkoittavat demoneja sekä ulvovat "kuoleman jumalan" ratsastaessa maan päällä hakemassa uhrejaan, apinat ovat kuulemma joskus tuhonneet demoni-jumalan temppelin, kobra suojellut Buddhaa demoneilta, jumalat ovat painostettavissa ja vaikka lintujen vietävissä, Brahman-jumala otti Shiva-jumalan sijaiseksi poissaolonsa ajaksi, vaikka tiesi tämän olevan huono sijainen, yms...

Posted by moon2/koran at 3:19 PM EEST
Updated: Wednesday, 28 September 2005 5:30 PM EEST
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FLOOD OF NOAH: (Allah knows best)

According to Koran flood of Noah only involved people of (prophet) Noah, whole world is not said to have sunk (as in the Bible). Strongest candidate for "people of Noah" might be developed nation found from bottom of Black Sea, which people did not have time to escape when masses of water from Mediterranean Sea flow into it after straits of Bosbor (in place of modern Istanbul) collapsed thousands of years ago. Another good candidate is "lost Atlantis", that has been with high probability (descriptions of "Atlantis" match) located from southern Spain, as it sunk into sea on the coast. Another possibility is plains of Mesopotamia in Iraq, as ground is flushed to sea from very many times larger area than rivers there. Map from near sea-level area looks like there was much erosion hundreds of kilometers from rivers:

3:33 mentions Noah as important messenger among others like in 4:163 and in 6:84. 7:64 (and 21:77+25:37+37:82+53:52) mentions that (only) those who rejected message of Noah (people he was sent to) were drowned, no other except Noah is mentioned to have had "sign" then.

Inheritors of Noah in 7:69 (and in 37:77 "offspring") are only part of people on earth, ancestors of people of Israel. 10:73 people from ark that "inherit the earth" (37:79 "salutation to Noah among the nations") really got it as religions of Abraham (relative of Noah) cover over 50% of worlds population.

11:40 (and in 23:27 "valley overflows"+54:12) "water came forth from the valley" (Shakir translation) could describe how Bosbor-straits broke, also some heavy rain (54:11) and fountains (Yusufali translation) from ground might have gushed forth at same time, "(take) of each kind two, male and female" does not really mention all species of animals or plants in world, it does not mention animals/plants at all, only humans (his family and those who followed Noah), 26:119 mentions only filled ark ("with all creatures" is interpretation of Yusufali), can be it with humans and food and some animals.

11:43 Noah’s son mentioned going to mountains, but he never got that far as waves "came between them", no mention of flood covering mountains. 11:44 earth "swallowing" water and sky "withdrawing" can not be very much water in any sense.

11:48 confirmed that "there will be" (= they will be introduced to) other people that were not in Ark. 17:2-3 confirmed that descendants of Ark are people of Israel, through son of Abraham.

In 29:14 "(Noah) tarried among them a thousand years less fifty" can mean that Noah was with his people for 950 years, or that he was with them last 50 years from millennium, or even that he was with them for time of "thousand years" from view of prophet with Allah, so according to Koran (22:47) “one day" in Allah’s sight (as Noah was prophet and belongs with Allah), it can be only reason why this "less fifty" is said and not 950 years mentioned straight, so almost one day (if 50 means 5%, 95% from day,


if "fifty" means 50% then half day) trying to preach them (as according to Koran there is only few descriptions about his sayings, 29:18 "duty of the messenger is only to preach publicly", maybe after that day he began to build ark).

In 69:11 interpretiating "you" into mankind is only from Yusufali translation, it could be Noah, or more likely his offspring and so "you" could be addressed to prophet Mohammed who was also offspring of Abraham (so "you" in 69:12 is also maybe addressed to prophet Mohammed only). In 71:25 Allah spoke about certain people of Noah mentioned in aya´s 1, 7 and in 23 with their gods.

Notice, in 11:46 Allah told for His prophet that he is "acting like ignorant" despite counseling of Him, so was Prophet Noah sinless? In 71:26 Noah requested that no single one of unbelievers would be left on earth, but Allah gave no answer to that.

Posted by moon2/koran at 3:18 PM EEST
Updated: Wednesday, 28 September 2005 5:16 PM EEST
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