1997
Subject: Class
action vs. Rover
From: "Carlos Stevenson" <adman@ultranet.com>
Date: 1997/01/09
Message-Id: <01b662f9$a3104ac0$1af27392@carlos>
Robert Fields (Discovery owner) is looking for buyers who are
dissatified
with Land Rover's
mechanical reliability who wish to be part of a class action that
He will
bring in the Federal District Court of Massachusetts.
Please respond by e-mail.
Path:
nntp.farm.idt.net!news.idt.net!disgorge.news.demon.net!demon!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!europa.clark.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!jump.net!grunt.dejanews.com!not-for-mail
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 05:41:36 -0600
From: hotchkiss@aeo.mts.dec.com
Subject: Re: Landrover Discovery Oil Leaks
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Message-ID: <865245011.13057@dejanews.com>
Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service
References: <33842C65.6F48@kiss.net.au>
<cw028212-ya02408000R2905971857340001@128.249.2.2>
<01bc6cee$02186260$4c0c2510@reosudrsv.REO.DEC.COM>
X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Jun 02 09:50:11 1997 GMT
X-Originating-IP-Addr: 204.123.2.68 (www-relay2.pa-x.dec.com)
X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/3.01Gold (Win95; I)
X-Authenticated-Sender: hotchkiss@aeo.mts.dec.com
Lines: 58
In article
<01bc6cee$02186260$4c0c2510@reosudrsv.REO.DEC.COM>,"John
Kennedy" <jd@nospam.com> wrote:
> C R Wright <cw028212@bcm.tmc.REMOVE.THIS.edu> wrote
in article
> <cw028212-ya02408000R2905971857340001@128.249.2.2>...
> > In article <33842C65.6F48@kiss.net.au>,
glen@kiss.net.au wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > I got a Discovery Tdi a few months ago - built '95
but only done 25,000
> > > Km. Its had a few warranty proablems (transmission
oil leaks and a
> > > leaking back door seal). The dealer is great, so
it's not a problem.
> > >
> > > I understand these are known problems, but what is
the reliability like
> > > otherwise - and do these things stay fixed once
they've been fixed.
> >
> > The best think I can tell you is a fundamental tenet of
Land-Rover
> > ownership: "If it's not leaking, it's out of
something."
> >
> > Charlie
|> > 1966 L-R 109 Diesel
>> I have a 1995 Discovery TDi which leaked quite badly
from new. The leaks
> came from the rear crankshaft oil seal (Diesel engine), rear
transfer box
> output shaft, left-side steering swivel, an
'inspection/access' plate on
> the transfer box and the power steering plumbing. It took
several attempts
> for the dealer to fix these leaks and don't be put off by
being told that
> they are very slight or 'normal'. The underside of my
Discovery is now
> completely oil free, and has been for quite a time (and
yes...there is oil
> where it should be;-).
>
> I still have problems, rust around the rear wheel arches
(the internal
> steel parts), rear bumpers (fenders?) rusting (this is a
design problem -
> check out the steel under the plastic trim strip that goes
between the
> bumper and the bodywork, there is relative movement between
the two which
> just removes the coating - I've got the bumper replaced by
the dealer but
> it will probably go rusty as well). I also have a constant,
high pitched,
> engine speed related metallic noise/rattle which has
defeated all attempts
> to rectify - any one else got this?
>
> Great vehicle, pity the build quality is so poor.
>
> - John.
>
>Yes, I have the same problems and more but after three years
from new
I have an admission from LR that four oil leaks,vibration and
overall
body rust are not normal and they will pay 50% of the parts and
labour. I will not be accepting this offer since the faults were
reported in the first year ( but this is normal,sir...) not will
I be using my local dealer, DUCROS of Annecy to do the repairs
since apart from being incopetant,have also been instrumental in
the 3 year delay to partial satisfaction. Great vehicle,great
company but crap quality and crap dealers.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Path:
nntp.farm.idt.net!news.idt.net!disgorge.news.demon.net!demon!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.250.118.17!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet
From: Timothy Walsh <vidpro@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: '97 Discovery XD Problems
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 23:45:17 -0700
Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc.
Message-ID: <338D25FC.5A42@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: vidpro@earthlink.net
NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust6.max8.phoenix.az.ms.uu.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
Lines: 58
I don't know where to begin. We leased a Discovery XD on April
14,
1997. And, after reading the majority of newsgroup postings, I
must
concur that LR has a major QC problem. This vehicle should have
never
left the factory in the condition it was in.
The dashboard had a razor like slash in it on the top right side
that
even went under the passenger air bag cover
The right side rear door was so out of alignment (about
1/2") that you
could see daylight coming through
The brush bar was a real joke. It was installed at a 45 degree
angle
leaning forward. This was soooooooo obvious I couldn't even
believe it
was let our of the factory. I walked the entire dealership and
not one
brush bar was that far out of alignment.
The plastic moulding that covers the drip guard was cracked and
had to
be replaced
The rear springs were out of tolerance and the vehicle tilted to
the
right. Both left and right springs had to be replaced.
The steering wheel was not straight. As the car was steered
straignt,
the steering wheel was rotated approximately 10 degrees
clockwise.
When this problem was fixed, we got the car back with the
steering wheel
mis-aligned again approximately 10 degrees counter clockwise.
This vehicle was on the show room floor and therefore was never
taken
out on test drives by other customers. Therefore, one can only
assume
that these problems should have been corrected at the factory.
Right???
We are thouroghly disappointed. When we had the vehicle returned
to us,
we noticed a severe pull to the right upon normal breaking. Back
to the
dealership (Land Rover, Phoenix). They claimed they could not
duplicate
the problem and had me go back to service to test drive the XD
with a
service tech (shop foreman). I took him on a freeway, got the car
up to
65mph and began to slowly break. The car left the lane to the
right and
went up the embankment. I got off the freeway and showed the tech
the
same pull on a regular street. He couldn't believe it. He then
drove
the vehicle and after a few tries, the vehicle started drifting
to the
right for him. Now he said they could try to fix it.
After a week or so, we call them and they tell us they have
replaced
most components of the brake system, swapped wheel positions,
swapped
pads, calipers and it still pulls right. They also said they have
ordered new calipers and they will put those on tomorrow. They
never
call us, we always have to call them, it is really irritating.
The next
day we find out the calipers didn't correct the problem, and they
have
put in a call to LR North America for advice, because they don't
know
what to do at this point.
What is really amazing, is that they tell us they have driven 3
other
Discoveries and ONE of them pulls to the right also. It's like
they are
using this as an excuse for the behavior and they know so little
about
the vehicles they have to drive others to dfind out if these
problems
are normal. What a joke.
Continued in next message.
Path:
nntp.farm.idt.net!news.idt.net!oksennus.binary.net!Gamma.RU!srcc!hermes.sovam.com!sovam!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.250.118.17!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet
From: Timothy Walsh <vidpro@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: 97 Discovery XD Problems Cont.
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:15:21 -0700
Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc.
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <338D2D09.5772@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: vidpro@earthlink.net
NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust6.max8.phoenix.az.ms.uu.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
So now LR NA decide it must be the booster modulator. They order
one, a
week later, they call us and say, "it's all fixed, come on
down and test
drive it". We go to the dealer and take it out on the usual
drive. At
first, it seemed to be fixed (on city streets). Once we entered
the
freeway, the damn thing started pulling to the right again! As
bad if
not worse than before. The Shop foreman and the Service Manager,
who
are both in the vehicle can't believe it. They swore up and down
that
when they drove it it didn't pull right. Now they begged us to
test
drive a brand new Discovery SE with 50 miles on it to see if it
pulled
to the right. We said OK. It puuled to the right just as bad as
our
XD. Now they are trying to say that maybe this problem exists in
all
Discoveries and is possibly NORMAL. We hit the roof and told them
not
to stroke us with that kind of crap. We want out of the deal and
you
can tell that to LR NA!
Now we call LR NA ourselves. We tell them we feel this vehicle
will
never be safe and we want our money back. The woman assures us
that LR|
will "do the right thing". Three days later, we get a
call from the
dealer stating: "we're flying in a field engineer to figure
out what is
going on with this car". They're still trying to fix this
vehicle.
Mind you this is 5 weeks after the purchase of the vehicle. They
say he
will be in next week, probably Tuesday or Wed. I call THEM on
Thursday
and find out the engineer has discovered the problem: "one
of radius
arms in the front is shorter than the other, or more
specifically, the
bushings are crushed and collapsed. Possibly from over-torqueing
of
defective rubber. Also, another bushing in the front end looks to
be in
the same condition.
To be fair, the dealer offered to make the first lease
payment, since we
only had the vehicle for 5 days, and weren't about to make a
payment on
a vehicle we hadn't driven.
Of course they have to order the parts and will have them
installed by
Friday. The Service Manager calls at 4:30pm on Friday afternoon
to
inform us the vehicle is still not fixed. The bushings did not
correct
the problem. I asked him what did the field engineer suggest to
do if
the bushings didn't work? His reply was: "He didn't know
what to do, he
was at a loss". So here it is, Friday night before a three
day weekend,
and we can't call LR NA until Tuesday morning. How convenient.
Tuesday morning we call LR NA and tell them in no uncertain terms
we
don't want this vehicle and we want ALL of our money back on this
deal.
The North American Rep. calls us back and now says he is going to
try
and find another XD for us, but it nay take two to three weeks to
locate
one. We don't want another Land Rover, we just want to put this
nightmare behind us and get some other vehicle.
Has anyone in this group ever noticed any braking problems? Try
slowing
down normally (like on an off-ramp) without your hands on the
wheel and
see if the car starts to drift to the right. Be careful, once it
starts
going, it will get progressively worse. I will be interested to
find out
if this is an anomally or a recall type problem. In our
experience, 3
out of 5 Discoverires pull to the right.
Sorry for the long post, but this is driving us crazy.
Tim Walsh
Chris Walsh
Path:
nntp.farm.idt.net!ppp-26.ts-2.min.idt.net!user
From: creg19@mail.idt.net (Craig Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Land Rover Discovery won't start
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:35:15 -0600
Organization: IDT
Lines: 70
Message-ID:
<creg19-2501971635150001@ppp-26.ts-2.min.idt.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-26.ts-2.min.idt.net
[sorry I can't thread this; original post expired from my host]
In article
<faurecm-0101971355340001@blv-pm107-ip1.halcyon.com>,
faurecm@halcyon.com (C. Marin Faure) wrote:
> If you hit the ceiling of the...garage, I can't see...Land Rover's fault.
[similar reaction from Clint Olsen <olsenc@kodiak.ee.washington.edu>]
I didn't say "Land Rover's fault," - just a problem
I had. But since you
ask, see http://shell.idt.net/creg19 for why this is an example
of poor
human factors engineering. Briefly, do you want a refrigerator
too large
to fit in the kitchen? Clearance information is printed on the
visor in
INCHES ONLY, while signs are denominated in FEET-INCHES. The
complexity
of the clearance information also played a role (three different
clearance
heights, depending on luggage-rack and sunroof configurations).
So did
faulty instructions from the parking attendant, poor signage, and
rush-hour traffic.
The irony is, there are many places this "go
anywhere" car can't go in
today's modern world, and precious few parking places if you get
there.
Besides, you assume I was driving the car. Perhaps you never lend
yours
out? - something else you can't do with the Disco! My point is
YOU NEVER
KNOW WHAT'S GONNA GO WRONG NEXT WITH A LAND ROVER.
> Lucas Electric is owned by Bosch...
That's like saying since Land Rover is owned by BMW it *must* be good.
> It's not a good idea to take a 4wd through a carwash as their big ...
Another place you can't go with a Land Rover: the carwash!
So THAT'S why they show ELEPHANTS washing the Disco on TV ;-)
> > the clueless dealer is Carousel Automobiles,
Minneapolis, MN
> There's your real problem.
I fault the dealer, sure. But I also fault Land Rover's lack
of quality
and concern for the customer. I called the 800 number many times
only to
be told "your local dealer will take care of any
problems."
> ... all the...faults...listed with Discoveries...are
repairable.
> today's mechanics...can fix the obvious problems ...
It's not the fixing, it's the FAILURE RATE that's so
bothersome. I prefer
things that don't break (at least not regularly). Land Rover
should apply
some of the modern manufacturing techniques you employ at Boeing.
That's
why air planes are reliable. Boeing understands the need, they
design it
in, they build it in, their vendors deliver it, and their
customers pay
for it.
> A vehicle is just a bunch of parts. There's no magic involved.
Just the magic of a good design, quality manufacturing,
competent service,
and a culture dedicated to customer satisfaction. Land Rover has
failed
to satisfy my most basic expectation: an engine that will start.
Dealers
like CAROUSEL in Minneapolis would just as soon profit from their
customer's problems by renting them replacements while taking
"a few days
to fix that" and ultimately failing. Your right about one
thing; there is
no magic at Land Rover: they suck.
---
Craig A. Smith <creg19@mail.idt.com>
author, Ten Reasons I Hate My Land Rover Discovery
http://shell.idt.net/~creg19/landrover_sucks.html
Path:
nntp.farm.idt.net!nntp-hub.idt.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: Patrick Kullenberg <KULLENBERG@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Discovery Fuel Door
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:57:36 -0800
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <32CBDAF0.11EC@worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.147.205.82
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; I)
I have seen postings that decribe a condition in cold weather,
that
causes Discovery fuel door locks to freeze. Has this been
improved or
corrected in later models, or does someone have a solution to the
problem, other than flaming the vehicle in this news group.
Path:nntp.farm.idt.net!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ag832
From: ag832@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Grant Wilkinson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Land Rover Disco vs. Tahoe/Yukon
Date: 15 Jan 1997 19:15:19 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <5bjac7$iu2@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
References: <32d9c45a.84483343@news.dc.net>
Reply-To: ag832@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Grant Wilkinson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet5.carleton.ca
X-Given-Sender: ag832@freenet5.carleton.ca (Grant Wilkinson)
MrRomance (biagio@dc.net) writes:
> Hi I am going to purchase one of these 2 vehicles soon and I
want your
> opinions. I want something that I can beat the living sh*t
out of off
> road. I know Land Rovers have a reputation for durability,
but I am
> concerned that the Disco's 182hp/233lb ft of torque is not
enough for
> serious off road. Tahoe has 255/330. As I say that I have
seen
> pictures of Discos doing some VERY serious off roading, more
serious
> than I would likely attempt. I am leaning toward the LR
unless
> someone can convince me otherwise. I also would be curious
if anyone
> has recommendations for upping the 182/233 figures on the
LR, via
> exhaust or some other easy, non-intrusive modification. How
much does
> an exhaust upgrade cost? Can it run Borlas? What size tires
should I
> put on either of these 2 vehicles if I want to do general
off roading
> (some mud, some rocks) and still have something I can drive
on the
> highway without earplugs?
You really should look at the archives of this list concerning
the poor
quality of Discos. The new ones may be better, but 1995 and 96
were much
less than banner years for LR. More than a few people on this
list, me
among them, have sold our Discos rather than put up with the
continuing
problems and lack of interest from LR.
--
Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa, Canada
grantw@freenet.carleton.ca
Path:nntp.farm.idt.net!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!ais.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!mr.net!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: superc0w@ix.netcom.com(Doccers)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4,rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Discovery vs. Grand Cherokee Limited
Date: 25 Jan 1997 17:39:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <5cdgge$p3l@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
References: <01bc0aa0$08a4e280$90242299@mikesenhome>
NNTP-Posting-Host: den-co8-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jan 25 9:39:26 AM PST 1997
Xref: nntp.farm.idt.net rec.autos.4x4:16439
rec.autos.driving:18422
In <01bc0aa0$08a4e280$90242299@mikesenhome>
"Michael A. Senske"
<mikesen@msn.com> writes: >
>I am in the market for a sport utility vehicle. I will be
moving to an
>area of the country which has significant snowfall
accumulations 3-5 months
>out of every year. I am just about ready to go out and
purchase either a
>Land Rover Discovery or a Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited. ...
I live in Colorado, we get a little bit of snow (grin) now and
then, I'm more impressed with the Jeep in the snow than I am the
Discovery.
End 1997
Back to index of posts
