I hope we ALL know what we (or maybe you) are here for put a few **** by your names so i can notice them from other babble :) <`Orion> or this * cmad is now known as __cmad__ <__cmad__> k? * `Orion sets mode: +m <__cmad__> yes <__cmad__> : <__cmad__> P * __cmad__ is now known as cmad * :P if anyone has a question, pm it and we'll paste it here http://www.thejediacademy.net/show_profile.php?f_id=5485 wtf wrong -Zero1- DCC Chat (212.10.123.52) what Zero1? just pm okay Welcome to the JA Science Departments C++ Programming Course now as you have read or should have read in the class plan the first few classes are gonna be an intro to programming orion and I agreed to dedicate some time of this first class to introduce ourselves since orion is having a chat with someone atm, i'm gonna start and he's gonna continue when he's available <`Orion> :P BTW: for any questions, plz pm unless we got +m off orion (Ryan Hummer) and me, cmad, (Chris Mantoulidis) believe that through this course, we can make you start off with programming by no means will you be some bad ass programmer when you "graduate" :D hmm for intro let's take +m off * cmad sets mode: -m now some info about ourselves * MOTREC has joined #ja-cpp hey MOTREC ah ha found j00 lol okay shhhh :) Orion is gonna tell you about him when he gets back * Squibit coppy pastes all of intro so far for MOTREC so About me: I am 14 years old, from Greece and ummmmm I have been programming for some years dunno what more I should say lol * cmad waits for orion <`Orion> lol greatest achievments <`Orion> ok embarrasing moments lol <`Orion> before i start i need to do this :P * bubu was kicked by `Orion (NO sleeping in class! 12‹212›) * bubu has joined #ja-cpp LOL <`Orion> :P lol! tee hee admin abuse ! :p i'm awake! ... <`Orion> hahah <`Orion> anyways <`Orion> I my self, im 20 years old, i recently graduated from a game design and development school with an associates degree in game design and development :P * Ecepeexo has joined #ja-cpp o_o; sorry for being late <`Orion> i have been programing for a few years, but have spend the last year and half in C and C++ <`Orion> np *cough and a good guitar playercough <`Orion> lol <`Orion> totally irrelivate! <`Orion> :P <`Orion> so <`Orion> lets get started i guess lol! lol yeah :P <`Orion> as cmad, said these first few classes are a into *intro <`Orion> no coding or teaching and of they syntax to C++ aka only theoretical stuff aka boring stuff :P <`Orion> yeah <`Orion> lol <`Orion> all programming languages boils down to teh same thing <`Orion> solving a problem well ummm <`Orion> ? i'd say, solving a problem quicker than you'd do by hand <`Orion> ;p that's what makes M$ products, something other than programs :D they're slow as hell lol <`Orion> hehe <`Orion> but there is a small kind of twist to this kind of problem solving <`Orion> let say your problem is to get to point a from point b <`Orion> and in your head, or what ever helps you solve problems. etc you have it figured out, no biggy its easy <`Orion> now you must be able to take that solution and code it out, make it work in the programming language you use * MOTREC has left #ja-cpp <`Orion> thats where the differences of all the programming languages show omg we scared him away :O <`Orion> lol <`Orion> anything u wanna add cmad? hmm in this class we won't really focus into algorithms or the clever, mathematically, ways to do stuff; unless that's required in an excercize of some sort class , or course ? *course :) sry <`Orion> hehe revenge for [19:15] *intro we're mostly gonna focus on "how to do it with C++" haha :P <`Orion> haha pwned :| :) [19:21] yeah i have to pick my daughter up she is sick at school <`Orion> he told me excuses :P lol <`Orion> and a note, bare with us, as this is our first time teachin the course :P yup, we're teaching newbs and it's all Katan's fault :P <`Orion> and most programmers dont make the best teachers :P you planning to do it again when u finished with us lot ? :) <`Orion> its not gonna be a 1 time thing i dont think indeed it all depends on if the ppl are interested * Squibit goes off and comes back when teachers are more experianced Just kidding :P <`Orion> lol okay, some examples of how and why a program is useful let's say you have a... bookstore or something when do we get to saber someone and you wanna write down what ppl buy and then make graphs and statistics of what ppl mostly buy Ecepeexo: i hope that was a joke <`Orion> lol yeah it was ^_^ so back to the example * `Orion gives Ecepeexo a F <`Orion> :P you would DEFINITELY not wanna do that by hand :P * FiZZ[JAK] senses +m again * cmad gives Ecepeexo a Z lol * cmad notes that Fizz is really strong in the Force * cmad sets mode: +m :P you would DEFINITELY not wanna do that by hand :P a program would be your best bet it would do the job quicker and the chances of making a mistake in some calculations would be minimal (it all depends on the programmer) a computer doesn't do wrong calculations (nowadays) it's all the programmer's fault; could be caused by carelessness <`Orion> or just a typo, since were humans :) yeah <`Orion> and thats why we have patches :P :P <`Orion> majority of programs written are there, to help the end user in some way, either it be to organize your finances, organize your mp3s, or what have you <`Orion> they are there to help make better use of your time <`Orion> key word majority, since some people like to write viruses :) haha well viruses could be useful <`Orion> no we wont teach you to write a virus :P <`Orion> yes let's say you're bored to destroy your computer :P <`Orion> some actually write them, and send them off to the authors of the application to show the exploit or hole in the application and some times, the author just HAPPENS to be M$ it's all a coincidence ;) <`Orion> lol so let's move to actually what a program is shall we? <`Orion> haha <`Orion> i guess <`Orion> :P so a program could be described as a bunch of machine cmds (aka machine code) that makes the computer function in a desired way <`Orion> true and i like to refer to programming, as the... "art" of making a program <`Orion> hehe if painters are artists, then programmers deffo are :P <`Orion> also, a computer is stupid, it knows nothing <`Orion> they only thing a computer knows what to do is follow directions/instructions that are given via a program something like Flash, you know :P LOL he's on IRC :o <`Orion> they only thing a computer knows what to do is follow directions/instructions that are given via a program <`Orion> ? that means that if you give the computer wrong instructions it gives you wrong results <`Orion> to a human its wrong <`Orion> but not to a machines <`Orion> machine* <`Orion> simply because the machine did what it knows, execute instructions and the programmer did what he knows best, typo umm now <`Orion> ah you certainly don't write programs in 1's and 0's (the 1's and 0's are what the computer understands) <`Orion> happy no netsplits hit us :P you write the program in the programming language you choose yeah lol :P * `Orion knocks on wood ? ah :) <`Orion> lol the source code you write is translated into object code with the compiler and the object code is turned into machine code by the linker more technical info will be given later :) <`Orion> most programming errors occur over lack of sleep :P and over lack of IQ :P The programming language we chose to teach you in this course (note for squibit :D) is C++ that means we're gonna write C++ code and the compiler and then the linker are gonna take care of it :) anything to add orion? <`Orion> u could :P ok <`Orion> 1 = on 0 = off yeah that's what the computer understands it only knows of 1 and 0 aka the binary system, as we like to call it :) we have 1 if there's electricity and 0 for the opposite * Jedi_Pimp[JASE] is now known as Ihated * Ihated is now known as hatesbeingsilen * hatesbeingsilen is now known as Jedi_Pimp[JASE] :P * Squibit is now known as HUH * cmad sets mode: -m * HUH is now known as Squibit but be quiet :) <`Orion> that last comment from cmad, may have gone over a few of your heads, but its something you will learn soon :) which one? <`Orion> lol <`Orion> so all the things we type in the c++ language will be taking and made to 1 and 0 <`Orion> hehe even though real guys write in 1's and 0's <`Orion> there is much more we could go an talk about for programming right fizz? :P <`Orion> like the binary system <`Orion> the hexdecimal system and stuff yeah if you are gonna take programming for real you must have a good understanding of the binary and hexadecimal system the octal system is lame IMO :P <`Orion> for basic getting to learn programming, there is not a whole lot of need for the huge knowledge of a pc <`Orion> once u step in to the relem of more advanced topics there comes a need to know how memory works, and how its structures and other things :P <`Orion> for those types of things we would need much more time to teach, so thats why we will try to keep it simple that's why some langs as Java and C# are weird, no nice memory handling <`Orion> lol no segmentation faults :( <`Orion> no real guys write in assembler ;P no, real guys write in machine code :D oh, about assembler <`Orion> lol it's something inbetween something between machine code and a recent programming language it relies a lot on memory handling and it's a pain in the ass to write a decent program in it :P (at least for me) <`Orion> lol <`Orion> shh <`Orion> lol <`Orion> feel free to ask any questions <`Orion> :) what's that language cmad just mentioned called? <`Orion> assembler? oh is that different than assembly langauge? <`Orion> na samething ok <`Orion> the assembly language that is used today commonly was developed by Intel <`Orion> i personally dont know assembly well i can read assembly <`Orion> but when i go back to my college <`Orion> i have a course with it but i could never write an entire program in it <`Orion> lol btw: this first class will become 1.5 hrs instead of 2hrs do you use assembly sub-routines? atari basic used that a lot since it's really theoretical who do you refer as "you"? orion and me? <`Orion> in c++ you can set off parts of your code, to be assembly yes like asm { <`Orion> for example //.... code here } <`Orion> __asm :P same thing both as lame :P <`Orion> lol <`Orion> anyway <`Orion> the JK2 and JKA SDK's both have some assembly code in them :o <`Orion> the jk2 and jka sdk's are written in c yeah ;) ANSI C to be precise <`Orion> they do that because some things are exectued faster with assembly than c++ (c1 told me that) <`Orion> c or c++ <`Orion> yeah <`Orion> its all ansi c <`Orion> ANSI is a standard * Akselii has joined #ja-cpp Hi! since assembly is closer to machine code than any other programming language going ;) ... * Akselii has left #ja-cpp <`Orion> that sets rules for the languages <`Orion> like if u see on a site that , this complier is ANSI compatible, that means it means those Standard requirements that the organization set forth <`Orion> justlike on the JASite how u see those 2 links at hte bottom whats the difference between C and C++ ? C++ focuses on objects <`Orion> C++ is object orriented objects being ? with one "r" <`Orion> thats for later in teh crouse <`Orion> course* <`Orion> its a way to organize things it's a memory part being treated in a special way by you and the compiler and it's gonna be taught in the 3rd part of the class * Cyb| has joined #ja-cpp kkk <`Orion> C is more straight forward and to the point <`Orion> C++ is bascially C with objects and a few other things :) C++ can be as straight forward in some cases <`Orion> yeah Some people believe that C's object type (struct) is enough for them well most times it's not those are the basic C and C++ differences Any other questions? I have a question! Yes? Hello? How come that programing exists for over 20 years now and we still didn't develpe a program that makes programing as easy as nothign? nice question :) Artificial Intelligence hasn't grown as much as we would like it to <`Orion> programming has been around since the first computer For example sections of artificial intelligence are now being researched by top scientists like Neural Networking oh and zero, humans have been on earth for millenia of years, how come they haven't done something to produce stuff as easy as nothing (i.e. really quickly/easy) well, but wouldnt it be easyer to make a program which has big buttons and a "programing for dummies" manual? 4,1mungiisi did a CTCP VERSION on you. <`Orion> there are languages that make it "easier" * BadgerJedi{WT} has C++ for dummies <`Orion> Visual Basic Forexample VB makes it uglier as well <`Orion> lol phone <`Orion> Visual Basic, is based of the old language BAISC :) <`Orion> its a very easy language to learn but, its not as powerful as some other languages, like C/C++ VB is the paradise of a win32 virus writer I learn very basic VB yeah I heared VB is easier but it is actually crap... but you say you also need visual studio 6.0 for this course, so you can also program c++ with visual studio then? <`Orion> yes visual studio has a c++ compiler you can ! cool ! oh lol I removed it <`Orion> Visual Studio is a development suite better reinstall then heh <`Orion> it has a C/C++, Java, J#, C#, and VB complier and other tools VS could prove useful yes it has many stuff cool <`Orion> yeah <`Orion> I have Visual C++ .NET 2002 but I found a program called "multimedia builder". kind of a programing tool for multimedia use, whitch was very easy to use. <`Orion> wich means its just the C/C++ compiler oh ic <`Orion> which* I have this question. Why have you joined this class? I mean what do you plan on doing in the future with C++? And if not C++, with some other prog. lang.? <`Orion> the entire Visual Stuido package is very expensive :P me? <`Orion> lol was that a q for all of us? yes for all the students of the course all? *all* sorry I didnt enroll.. just found out i'd possibly like to do it for a living I joined this, because I wanted to learn some basic C++, maybe that would help me later on, it's free, and cmad is teaching me I like to find out what programming is <`Orion> lol and I like to program Well im doing VB computing at college (2 years after school) , and planning on doing computer sciences at uni later (more than 2 years after school), and everyone said VB sucks so .... :) sorry I didnt enroll.. just found out it doesn't matter :) can't make a living with atari basic ;) :D <`Orion> lol lol :D <`Orion> how about u cmad :P lol :D * JumpinJedi has quit IRC (Quit: Rebooting, brb) how is it with the visual part of a prog (how it looks) is that also set in the programming behind it? <`Orion> Squibit, most college's universities teach Java <`Orion> yes <`Orion> but C++ at its core is not graphical ic indeed <`Orion> all the applications we will do in here will be console based graphical stuff are OS dependent oh linux kinda thing? (at least in C++) <`Orion> yeah ok :) yeah :) why does everyone say shell=linux? :D <`Orion> u gonna answer the q cmad? <`Orion> hehe <`Orion> it is though :P well if you want your program source to be OS dependent <`Orion> hehe you can take some nice GUI libs and then implement them place a window here, a button there, a text box on the other side and you got a nice looking window :) but that's all OS dependent I did with server administrating things like kill -9 pid and cd [dir] and ./start_game and that kinda things.. that is shell? <`Orion> yes yes hey, by the way... I made once my own mini game in what lang? C++ Visual mm isnt that very tiem rubbing to learn all those commands? Cyb|: the shell commands? linux commands <`Orion> man pages are your friend :) no not really (for the time) it all depends on your will to learn it made my own tic tac toe game:) mm yeah Cyb|: C++ programming is easier than using the linux shell and guess im asking too much questions :P but if I want to install linux then where is best to get it? but I have found a bug in the game easier... oh shouldnt be that hard then "where"? there are several linux distributions <`Orion> u gota have good problem solving skills with programming :) yes I could also ask which one <`Orion> or u will have good ones by the time u are a developed programmer :P the O or X player selection doesnt work proberly <`Orion> hehe <`Orion> ive writen about 10 games Zero1: we can talk about that later <`Orion> in the past year ok i hate writting games :P i do programs to do my work for me :D <`Orion> lol cool... why dont you go in with the ja reloaded mod? <`Orion> ? who was the referred to cyb? say orion LOL you 2 lol... or is chosen already back in bussiness? <`Orion> no <`Orion> the jar project is mine Cyb|: orion is the JAR lead programmer LOL oh you already are ok nm :P <`Orion> lol <`Orion> its not that big of a project to need more than one developer i'm busy with other stuff atm :) :) all hail `Orion !!! lol <`Orion> lol a conspiracy, you teach us the basics and get us lot to do the boring bits ! lol <`Orion> lol well we haven't mentioned this in the classplan doc file but in the end we're gonna do a course project we haven't decided yet what it will be, we are open to suggestions how 'bout jk4? ;) lol lol hehe <`Orion> haha I know what! a port scanner An expansion for JK3 yeah that would be cool lol BadgerJedi{WT}: there are lots of them :) aka a client side mod? yes I know tarp and I are gonna work on a client side mod soon :) no, a real full conversion expansion for what game? JKA yeah cool Zero1: it's not as easy as it sounds ;) * BadgerJedi{WT} doesn't have jka :'( oh I know oh, are the mods written in a programming language? or is it it's own language? an IRC bot how long would it take untill you learned enough but c++ to make a mod? but we could make it as a final project :D <`Orion> they are in what ever language the game is written in <`Orion> most video games are written in C how come they write them in C cuz C is the most suitable lang it's quick <`Orion> because the C compliers are optimized insanly and to the point <`Orion> and c code runs fast <`Orion> but the C++ compilers are getting there ah <`Orion> for example <`Orion> from what i hear doom3 is in C++ plus, there are no sharps or flats ;) <`Orion> lol :P BadgerJedi{WT}: i'm working on an IRC lib for C++ ;) what is a "lib"? library? like a dll? yeah I was wondering exactly what a lib was <`Orion> yeah <`Orion> execpt the user doesnt need the lib <`Orion> once you ship the exe or distribute it it will be a .so actually :P <`Orion> lib is for coding only <`Orion> lol linux only library <`Orion> .so = shared object file but i bet it can be used on bsd <`Orion> its a linux version of a dll ah hmmm....then why does win need so many dlls? * DM[PlanetSide] has quit IRC (Signed off) the good thing in dlls is that they can be used by many programs <`Orion> yeah so if you make good code that would be useful <`Orion> because each dll does one thing specific it would be best to give it as a dll <`Orion> yeah <`Orion> the best tip so many other programs could use it, instead of rewrite the code <`Orion> is write code that can be reused <`Orion> reuseable code = tiem saver do NOT reinvent the wheel ahhh...kinda like a "universal" sub-routine? <`Orion> hehe kinda * Zero1 has left #ja-cpp thanks for the answers mate... class always same time same day? yes I hope you enjoyed yourselves :D cuz i found it really boring :D lol <`Orion> hahah <`Orion> its theory type stuff <`Orion> everyone knows thats boring :P and everyone knows it's katan's fault :D okay class dismissed see you all next week :) and bubu no sleeping in class * bubu was kicked by cmad (bubu) :D <`Orion> hahaha there :P