Interview with Madonna Wayne Gacy on December 4, 1995 for Gaston
D.S.: How has the road treated you so far?
Pogo: Good, as Always.
D.S.: I was at your show last Thursday in Winston Salem, were
you aware that the barricade broke during your 1st song?
Pogo: I don't know, I wasn't really paying that much attention.
D.S.: Would that have affected you in any way?
Pogo: Not me. As long as people don't get on stage too much.
We like to see people break shit, it's good, it inspires
us to break things, like barricades, each other,
D.S.: Cool, Even though you have a full length album and a new
E.P., does it anger you that you get little or no
Pogo: It's kind of expected, I mean, we have always relied on
live shows. People find out about us by hearing our
albums or by word of mouth or because they have been to
a live show. Radio and MTV haven't made us therefore
they can't break us. That's the kind of band we are, we
do what we want, and maybe one day it will catch up to
us, but its not up to us what the fuck the radio wants or
what MTV wants.
D.S.: I know what you mean, I had to record MTV for three
nights just to get the "Dope Hat" video.
Pogo: Wow! I didn't even know they played it.
D.S.: Incredible video, by the way.
Pogo: Oh, well thanks.
D.S.: Are there any plans for Trent Reznor to do any more dance
remixes of your songs?
Pogo: I don't know.
D.S.: Would you like to see him do any more?
Pogo: That's up to him really. It depends on how much time he
has. It's good to have him as well as a lot of other
talented people he uses. It's just whether or not he has
the time really. Trent is a very busy man.
D.S.: Would you like to go on tour with him again?
Pogo: If he wants us to, sure, they are like our favorite band
to tour with.
D.S.: I love you cover of "Sweet Dreams" and "I put a Spell on
You." What other covers would you like to do?
Pogo: We've basically done all the songs we want to cover,
although there are a few other one's we've done in the
past like Deep Purple's "Space Tracking" and a few other
things like that. In fact, we have never really done any
covers until the EP. So basically we never were a cover
band, we're original, with the exceptions of the few
covers we played live. People wanted to hear them on
record so we decided to put them on there for the fans.
D.S.: Will any of your demo songs (such as White Knuckles and
Dune Buggy) show up on AC Superstar?
Pogo: I don't believe those songs will, but there might be some
earlier stuff, maybe "Suicide Snowman."
D.S.: I have read where one of your band's messages is to be
yourself and not to be a follower, yet your band has a
lot of followers, does that make you feel like your
message is not getting across?
Pogo: It get's across to those who need to get it. I mean, 10
different people can read the bible and interpret it 10
different ways, so that's why there are so many
diversions of Christianity, so you might as well do the
same thing to us. I mean, we know what our message is,
but they can interpret it however they want, that's the
whole point of it. If they want to be a follower that's
fine, we don't promote it, but, you know, we can't
control that. But it's like that in any case, like
Satanism. We do our own rituals that most people
wouldn't understand what the point or message of it was.
People are all into the bullshit magic aspects of it,
black masses and all that stupid devil worship crap.
Satanism is all about individuality and doing what you
need to do, so once again stuff gets misinterpreted and
as long as you get something out of it that they enjoy,
then why not, you know, it doesn't all have to be the
D.S.: It seems like the band has a lot of different messages,
what is the most important one that you would like to get
across to the people?
Pogo: Kill the Chicken!! That is the first and most important
message that needs to be taught. I have an utter hate
for everything mediocre. It has to be either really bad
or really good. The stuff in the middle sucks.
D.S.: Could you explain a little bit more about the chicken?
Pogo: The chicken now has become a figurehead for a much
greater cause. To kill the chicken does not mean to
literally kill a chicken, but it has become a metaphor
for a much greater cause related to smashing everything
that deserves to be smashed. Not allowing, especially,
once again, things that are mediocre, bland, and boring.
You know, people who are content don't kill the chicken,
people who are exciting, people who have something to do,
the Kill the Chicken, they get something done, they
change something. So there is a certain amount of
D.S.: After seeing the size of this place (picture your
livingroom), would you ever like to start playing
amphitheaters, or would you rather stay in clubs?
Pogo: It's just whatever, I mean, I don't book the shows,
booking agents do that, that's what we pay them for, so
you know, I just like playing, it's all about playing.
Small places, big places, it's all good to me. To me,
being on stage is like jacking off, ok, you do it for
yourself, you know, you hear the music and you play the
music, so your at a concert but you're giving a concert
just like jacking off you having sex but you're also
giving sex, where you're the only person there, and the
person that matters too, It's like doing shows, I don't
really give a fuck what anybody else thinks, just as long
as I enjoy the show, everybody else can go to fucking
hell. I don't care if there is 5 or 5,000 because if you
have to worry about audiences then you're controlled by
them, and I'm not controlled by anybody, so I don't care
if they like me or hate me, whatever, as long as I'm into
it. That's all that counts.
D.S.: By the way, I have seen you perform twice, I love the way
you perform, it's very entertaining.
Pogo: Thanks. Well, see, there again, I don't play that way
because you like it, because if I rely on other people's
opinions, then I'm controlled by them and we're not about
being controlled, we do what we like, and if people don't
like it, fuck 'em!
D.S.: How much stuff on Revelation #9 is backwards?
Pogo: Well, there are 13 exact tracks on Revelation #9, it
consists of 13 tracks in which at least 6 are reversed.
D.S.: When we played it backwards, we heard things like
"Welcome to the other side"
Pogo: Oh yeah, there is all kinds of fan stuff on there, it's
playable in any direction. It is equally playable in any
direction. It has an equal number of tracks in each
D.S.: Unfortunately, I haven't seen your performance on the Jon
Stewart Show. How much damage did you guys cause?
Pogo: Smashed keyboards, lit the stage on fire, broke a lot of
stuff, I can't remember the magnitude of the damage
because I was on lipids at the time. I don't even
remember what happened. Manson is lighting stuff on fire
and it's all just crazy. So I don't remember too much of
it, it's all kinda fucked up.
D.S.: How do you feel about people bootlegging your show? Does
that bother you?
Pogo: Obviously, it should. I mean, I'm still a capitalist, we
all are. I mean, I could use the money they're making
off the bootlegs. Another thing is that the usually suck
because fans get a low quality product that hasn't gotten
the Marilyn Manson stamp of approval of quality. So your
ripping off the public and 2nd, I could use the money to
buy drugs with, and it pisses me off. So there are 2
good reasons why it sucks. I mean, right now they're
taking drugs out of my mouth everytime they do that. I
find that offensive.
D.S.: When is the video set to come out?
Pogo: It should be out sometime this next year, it is being
D.S.: What will the video consist of?
Pogo: All kinds of magical stuff, going ahead on revealing it
wouldn't be any fun, you know, it's like you have to wait
until you get inside the Chocolate factory to see what
it's like. That's what makes it fun. It's like getting
a golden ticket when the video arrives. There you go,
but until then, the outside of the factory is all you get
D.S.: Anything you would like to talk about?
Pogo: Yeah, just learning to speak Chinese.
Pogo: Yeah, to annoy Spanish people in line at supermarkets.
You know, they're always talking about me in Spanish, and
it annoys me when they don't use English in public so I'm
learning to speak Chinese so I can talk about them and
piss them off back. It's fun.
D.S.: Why were you originally not going to play tonight?
Pogo: Because the stage ain't too fucking big!
D.S.: When you're not touring, what do you usually do?
Pogo: I don't know, really, this is all I do. make sounds,
play music, get fucked up, get on the bus, and do it
again. It's good and I like it, it's very exciting.
D.S.: Have you ever had any formal training in the keyboard?
Pogo: Hell no. I had never picked one up until I joined this
band. I'm not about musicians, I hate musicians. I'm
all about entertaining, you know. That's why I have more
in common with a stripper than fucking Billy Joel. I'm
more worried about entertaining than writing art and all
that stupid shit. It's not about art at all, it's about
giving something fun and putting on a show. Not standing
around in shorts and playing fucking cool songs and just
being utterly boring like fucking Helmet. I love
Helmet's music, but to watch them live I fucking fall
D.S.: What other music do you listen to?
Pogo: Old Bee Gees, AOR rock, we're into classic rock because
all the classic rock stations have become alternative
stations and now they suck so the only alternative is AOR
rock. Now all we listen to is bad Journey, bad
Aerosmith, and shitty stuff like that we used to hate,
but now that that's the alternative, that what's not on
the radio or MTV. So now the Bee Gees, and all this
other exciting stuff, that's what we're about, everything
is boring, for us to freak out we put on Lionel Richie
and throw on some jeans, it's great.
D.S.: Scary, sounds like my mom's music.
Pogo: Exactly, that's frightening, we put on Billy Joel real
loud, lie around in jeans, and just go crazy. Once you
get so crazy, very normal things become crazy. Like in
the crazy world, some things appear insane. So we live
in a crazy alternate universe which you can't explain
unless you're in it. So, like for us, the most insane
thing is Lionel Richie and Billy Joel.
D.S.: Scary, very scary.
Pogo: Exactly, completely wrong in the "normal" world.
D.S.: Are you online?
Pogo: I don't like the internet personally. To me it's just a
place for gossip and other bullshit. I mean, why tie up
all these beautiful telephone lines with nothing but
gossip, it's nothing more than just a big fucking party
line. Everybody in the world is now on the internet.
Do-Be-Do-Be-Da In like a year it went from nothing to
everything. The internet is useful for some things like
transacting bank statements and shit like that, but for
the most part it's just a bunch of bullshit. It's just
a bunch of hype too, everyone in the world has become all
mystified, except no one knows that the fuck they're
doing on the internet. They don't know how their
computer works. The old days when I had computers we had
to do programs ourself. You did everything yourself,
typed in the code, programmed everything. If something
went wrong you knew how to fix it, now if something
crashes, you don't know if something crashed in the
fucking DOS shell or did it crash in the fucking windows
shell or what went down fucking where and Do-Be-Do-Be-Da.
There are so many layers of shit it's become like cars,
you can't fix them by yourself anymore, you have to take
them to a mechanic. It's all a fucking scam to make you
dependent on a magical box. You press a button and this
magical information comes up, you don't know how the fuck
it does it. No one does. They just use it without
having any clue on how it does it. The fucking waste it.
Most people would die if all they had was 4 megs. 4 megs
is huge, now all these computers have 512 megs. I
remember 10 years ago when 1 meg was a lot, then it was
64 megs. People just waste it all. It's all wasted
data. Out entire show consists of less than 16 megs.
everything in all our albums put together is less than
half a gig, all the sounds we use, and that's nothing.
It's like why have a big filing cabinet, you're never
gonna have enough room, and closet space, no matter how
much you have it's never enough. It's because people
waste it. I'm so happy for that guy who wrote a program
that closed down the net a few years back. I hope he
writes another one. Anyone can claim to be anyone.
People have acted like me before, it's a bunch of
bullshit. I mean, garbage in, garbage out.
D.S.: About the only good thing I have found is that it's
easier to get info on you guys.
Pogo: But a lot of times it is inaccurate. What's the point of
information if it is not accurate? That's misinformation
and that is actually worse for you.
D.S.: Do you have any input into the "Official Homepage?"
Pogo: No, we don't have any computers except for our manager
who has one for business purposes, but as far as going on
the internet, no.
D.S.: How long have you been on tour?
Pogo: Two years
D.S.: Where is your home now?
Pogo: New Orleans
D.S.: How do you like Clutch?
Pogo: They're cool, I liked their 1st record a lot, they're
great guys, I enjoy partying with them, smoke a lot of
grass, it's all a good thing. They're very different
from us, which is good.
D.S.: I have heard where on one of your songs, if played
backwards, you can hear "Onward Christians Marching."
Pogo: Yeah, there is some pro-Jesus stuff on some stuff
backwards. Remember, if you get something devil and
backmask it, you reverse it and it becomes good. Devil
stuff backwards is actually good stuff. Therefore if you
want to make something good you say it in reverse. So if
you want to make something evil, you take a Christian
thing and play it in reverse. So when you play it
forward which is the way you would normally play a CD, it
is reverse so it is the opposite of what it means. So
something devil in reverse makes it good forward. So all
of out backward messages are about the lord, and we are
very excited about that.
D.S.: What religion do you follow?
D.S.: Do you believe that there is anything out there?
Pogo: No, this is it.
D.S.: So basically, have fun while you can?
Pogo: No, well, this is all there is, you can choose to have
fun or you can choose not to. It is your life to make it
as you wish. The main thing is to find what you want to
do, it's up to you. Everyone gravitates to where they
want to be. If you want to be led, then find a church
and a leader will lead them. People who want to be an
individual may become a Satanist or whatever. Everyone
comes to a philosophy. If you want all the answers,
then go to a religion with all the answers. Just go to
who you want to go. A lot of people go crying to God, ya
know. Just whatever.
D.S.: And to some people, you are God.
Pogo: Oh, that would be cool, I would be happy with that.
Hopefully they will give me offerings of drugs. So if
anybody does think that we are God, bring us offerings of
drugs. And we will get our divine greatness.
D.S.: Will there ever be a Marilyn Manson metal lunchbox?
Pogo: We tried a long time ago, there is only one company that
still makes them, but they aren't in the U.S. The
shipping and weight would be very hard to deal with. I
mean, 10 lunchboxes takes the place of 100 t-shirts.
D.S.: Did you guys have to pay at all to use the Willy Wonka
boat in "Dope Hat?"
Pogo: The boat is not exactly the same. It is designed
differently. You can make a reference to something, like
"SNL" can do a skit and make a reference to something.
D.S.: How long did it take you to grow the goatee?
Pogo: 4 years
D.S.: My friends were scared when they saw your picture.
Pogo: Good, that's how it's supposed to be. Mediocre sucks.
D.S.: Other friends thought that I would never return from the
Pogo: It's better to know whether or not people like you or
hate you. That's what we're all about. We don't care if
people like us or hate us, as long as walk away without
D.S.: Whenever I wore the "Beware of God" shirt, many people
told me I was going to hell.
Pogo: Cool. I mean, I don't know anyone in heaven so why would
I want to go there? I know none of my relatives will be
D.S.: You know, we will all end up partying in Hell.
Pogo: A "real" Christian can never even get into heaven.
D.S.: Why not?
Pogo: If you were really like Christ, ok, what did Christ do?
Christ, supposedly, died for all our sins so all of us
would not go to hell, right? Now, a "True Christian"
goes up to heaven and can supposedly see the torment in
hell La-Da-De-De-Da. Well, how can they be in heaven and
see someone suffering in Hell? They would be like "Oh,
I'll gladly go and trade places with this poor person and
let them go to heaven," just like Jesus supposedly did.
Jesus couldn't stand to see people suffering, it's
ridiculous. So what, is it a one shot deal only? This
is it, get saved now or never. It is completely
illogical. That's why it's religion. It makes no sense,
it's bullshit. It is based on faith, which is belief
without proof. Which is the exact opposite of what
Western Europen minds use this bullshit to lead to proof,
but faith said you shall have no proof. And all these
dumb assholes who go looking for Noah's Ark and all this
shit is defeating the purpose of religion.
D.S.: Do you thing that one day science will prove Christianity
Pogo: Even if it did, it still wouldn't stop the real
Christians. The whole point of religion is not to be
proved or disproved, it is just meant to be accepted.
D.S.: Do you like or hate Christians?
Pogo: No. Whatever works for someone else. If you want to be
a Christian fool, just don't try to make me one. That is
why I have more respect for Jews because they don't come
around to my fucking door everyday. But other religions
that try to make others like them, they can kiss my ass.
D.S.: Have you ever done anything cruel to like, a Jehovah's
Pogo: No, I just invite them to read my books when they come to
the door. They don't want to read my book, so I don't
read theirs. I even invite them into my house for a
debate. See, they don't want to do that. I might scare
them. See, I tell them to come back at midnight. So
far, none of them have come back.
D.S.: Do you like vampires?
Pogo: No. I hate vampires. You know, people who think they
are a vampire. Here is my challenge, let me walk up to
you and shoot you in the chest. No wait, shoot you in
the head to stay away from the heart, with a lead bullet,
not silver or anything, just regular lead. And if you
continue to live, I will believe you are a vampire.
People then say, "Well, I'm not that kind of vampire."
What do you mean, can you die!? You can't turn into a
bat, you can't control the weather, then what the fuck is
the point of being a vampire if you have no special
powers? You're just a regular person, FUCK OFF!! So I
don't believe any of that shit, you know. If someone
walks up to you and shoots you in the face and you live,
Woo, I'll be excited. Wow, a vampire! Rock on!
Otherwise, it's a load of shit because they have no
special powers. Just because you have fangs and drink
blood, so what? I can drink piss. Who cares?
D.S.: Do you have a favorite movie?
Pogo: Not a favorite movie. You know, if a movie is good, it's
D.S.: Did you like Dawn of the Dead?
Pogo: Yeah, that movie scared me. Night and Dawn of the Dead.
Carnival of Souls. Basically, I like everything and I
hate everything at the same time.
D.S.: Have you ever seen MST3K?
Pogo: Many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many,
many, many time. Many times. It is the Grandfather of
all pop culture.
D.S.: Well, thanks for the interview.