updated 6/10/99
WANT TO TRADE FOR: (ALL LISTED GEN WOULD
BE MY COPY, MEANING YOURS = 1 LOWER)
-80 MIN CD-R COPY OF "SUICIDE SOLUTION?"
-80 MIN CD-R COPY OF "ROMA"
-80 MIN CD-R COPY OF "BANNED FOR LIFE"
Date | City | Venue/Demo/Bootleg | Number of Tracks | Time (In Minutes) | Source History | Grade |
??/??/?? | ?????, WA | Montage of Heck | 1 | 36 | T3-CDR | |
4/17/87 | Olympia, WA | KAOS Radio Demo | 9 | 31 | CD | 3/4/3/10 |
??/??/87 | ?????, WA | Party | 10 | 45 | T1-MP3-CDR | 3/4/2/9 |
12/??/87 | Tacoma, WA | Community World Theater | 13 | 48 | CD-RMCDR | 3/4/2/9 |
12/21/88 | Hoquiam, WA | Hoquiam Eagles Lodge | 14 | 60 | low-CDR | 2/2/1/5 |
12/28/88 | Seattle, WA | The Underground (tape, CD) | 10 | 37 | CD-T1/CD-CDR | 3/3/4/10 |
6/23/89 | Westwood, CA | Rhino Records (tape) | 11 | 35 | low | 4/2/1/7 |
7/7/89 | Chicago, IL | Club Dreamerz | 13 | 50 | CD-CDR | 2/2/3/7 |
7/12/89 | Philadelphia, PA | JC Dobbs | 15 | 57 | VID3-CDR | 3/3/1/7 |
9/13/89 | Denver, CO | Gothic Theater | 16 | 52 | VID1-CDR | 2/3/2/8 |
10/8/89 | Omaha, NE | Lift Ticket Lounge (tape) | 13 | 45 | low-med | 3/3/3/9 |
11/18/89 | Hanau, Germany | Ku-Ba Club | 13 | 45 | CD-CDR | |
11/22/89 | Vienna, Austria | U4 Club | 14 | 61 | DAT-T1-CDR | 2/3/4/9 |
12/3/89 | London, England | Astoria Theater | 14 | 52 | T2-CDR | 3/3/2/8 |
1/6/90 | Seattle, WA | HUB East Ballroom | 15 | 46 | CD-CDR | 2/3/3/8 |
1/20/90 | Tacoma, WA | Legends | 15 | 53 | VID2-CDR | 3/4/2/9 |
2/9/90 | Portland, OR | Pine Street Theater | 10 | 37 | T2-CDR | 3/3/3/9 |
2/15/90 | Hollywood, CA | Raji's | 13 | 42 | CD-CDR | 3/2/3/8 |
3/??/90 | Olympia, WA | Evergreen State College music video shoot | 4 | 14 | VID2-CDR | 2/1/2/5 |
4/90 | Madison, WI | Smart Sessions (Upgrade from Chad Channing's 2nd gen Tape! Better than "Into The Black"!) | 8 | 31 | T2-CDR | |
5/2/90 | Charlotte, NC | The Milestone | 18 | 72 | T3-CDR | 3/3/3, 2/8.5 |
5/6/90 | Atlanta, GA | The Masquerade | 16 | 53 | CD-CDR | 2/3/3/8 |
5/13/90 | Lincoln, NE | Duffy's Tavern | 17 | 50 | CD-CDR | 3/3/3/9 |
8/17/90 | Hollywood, CA | The Palladium (From the Digital Master!) | 3/12 | 51 | DAT-CDR | |
8/20/90 | Sacramento, CA | Crest Theater | 12 | 42 | DAT-T1-CDR | 4/2/3/9 |
10/24/90 | London, England | Astoria Theater | 19 | 67 | T1-CDR | |
11/25/90 | Seattle, WA | The Off Ramp Cafe | 19 | 67 | CD-CDR | |
3/8/91 | Vancouver, Candada | Commodore Ballroom | 15 | 45 | TM-DAT-T1-CDR | 4/3/3/10 |
4/17/91 | Seattle, WA | OK Hotel | 19 | 64 | VID3-CDR | 4/4/2/10 |
6/18/91 | Santa Cruz, CA | Catalyst | 14 | 45 | DAT-T1-CDR | 4/2/4/10 |
8/23/91 | Reading, England | Reading Festival | 13 | 41 | CD-CDR | 3/3/2/8 |
8/25/91 | Hasselt, Belgium | Pukkelpop Festival | 10 | 35 | TM-DAT-CDR | 3/2/3/8 |
8/27/91 | Bremen, Germany | Aladin | 13 | 45 | 12"-T1-CDR | 2/3/2/7 |
8/27/91 | Bremen, Germany | Aladin (MP3, CD) | 13 | 44 (all copies missing end of "Endless Nameless") | T1-CDR-256kMP3 T1-CDR | 2/3/3, 3&1/7.5 |
9/20/91 | Toronto, Canada | Opera House | 16 | 61 | T3-CDR | |
10/12/91 | Chicago, IL | The Cabaret Metro | 17 | 57 | CD-CDR | |
10/21/91 | Austin, TX | Liberty Lunch | 18 | 68 | CD-RMCDR | 4/3/2/9 |
10/23/91 | Tempe, AR | After The Gold Rush | 18 | 66 | TM-DAT-T1-CDR | 2/3/3/8 |
10/25/91 | Hollywood, CA | The Palace | 18 | 63 | CD-CDR | |
10/29/91 | Portland, OR | Fox Theater | 21 | 73 | TM-DAT-T1-CDR | |
10/31/91 | Seattle, WA | Paramount Theater | 19 | 72 | CD-CDR | 4/3/3/10 |
11/16/91 | Muggia, Italy | Teatro Verdi | 18 | 52 | CD-CDR | |
11/19/91 | Rome, Italy | Castle Theater | 18 | 56 | CD-CDR | |
11/23/91 | Ghent, Belgium | Vooruit | 21 | 81 | T1-DAT-T2-CDR (2 CD's) | 1/4/2/7 |
11/25/91 | Amsterdam, Holland | Pardiso (complete, in order, NOT from any of the various cut CD's!) | 17 | 56 | DAT-T1-CDR | |
12/4/91 | Manchester, England | Manchester Academy | 15 | 45 | CDR-CDR | 2/3/2/7 |
12/28/91 | Del Mar, California | O'Brien Pavillion | 13 | 42 | CD-CDR | 4/2/4/10 |
12/31/91 | San Francisco, CA | Cow Palace | 13 | 47 | DAT-T1-CDR | 3/3/3/9 |
1/10/92 | New York, NY | MTV Studios | 9 | 41 | VID1-CDR | 4/4/4/12 |
2/1/92 | Melbourne, Austrailia | The Palace | 7 | 23 | CD-CDR | |
2/6/92 | Sydney, Austrailia | Selina's Coogee Bay Hotel | 17 | 69 | DAT-T1-CDR | |
10/30/92 | Buenos Aires, Argentina | Velez Sarsfield Stadium | 17 | 57 | CD-CDR | |
10/23/93 | Chicago, IL | Aragon Ballroom | 24 | 101 | DAT-T1-CDR (2 CD's) | 2/4/3/9 |
1/4/94 | Vancouver, BC, Canada | Pacific Coliseum | 22 | 90 | TM-DAT-CDR (2 CD's) | 3/3/3/9 |
1/8/94 | Seattle, WA | Seattle Center Arena | 25 | 102 | CD-CDR (2 CD's) | |
2/14/94 | Paris, France | Le Zenith | 23 | 86 | CD-CDR (2 CD's) | 3/3/3/9 |
2/16/94 | Rennes, France | Salle Ominsport | 25 | 94 | CD-CDR (2 CD's) | 3/3/3/9 |
2/22/94 | Rome, Italy | Palaghiaccio di Marino | 22 | 76 | CD-CDR (2 CD's) | 4/2/4/10 |
2/25/94 | Milan, Italy | Palatrussardi | 22 | 79 | CD-CDR (2 CD's) | 4/3/4/11 |
------- | ------------ | Outcesticide: In Memory of Kurt Cobain (Ultra-Rare Blue Moon 14-R Remastered Version with Krist and Courtney's Eulogies added) | 23 | 78 | CD | Varies |
------- | ------------ | Outcesticide 2: The Needle and the Damage Done | 21 | 74 | CD | Varies |
------- | ------------ | Outcesticide 3: The Final Solution | 23 | 74 | CD | Varies |
------- | ------------ | Outcesticide 4: Rape of the Vaults(Blue Moon Re-release, different picture disc) | 23 | 77 | CD | Varies |
------- | ------------ | Outcesticide 5: Disintegration (semi-rare, KAOS demo, plus more) | 22 | 72 | CD | Varies |
Q. What should I get as my first one?
A. As I'm sure many of you looking at this page haven't traded much or at all before, your head is probably swimming at the number of shows there are, and which one to get (maybe not so much on mine, but on other lists), so you'd like a recommendation. Early on, KAOS, the party show, 1/23/88, and 12/28/88 are great shows all around and it's really interesting to hear the band that early (KAOS was 4 1/2 years before Nevermind was released!) In the Bleach era, 6/23/89 and 10/8/89 are two superpowerful shows from front to back, even if the quality is a tad low on the June show. In 1990, 8/17/90 is very intense and has a great track list (with the soundcheck of Floyd the Barber/In Bloom/In His Hands) and the quality is superb. Then there's 11/25/90, which is my favorite show ever, insane setlist (even without encore), the band's best performance in my opinion, and good recording quality. It doesn't get any better than that show. In 1991, 10/21/91 is one of my favorite shows of all time, and 12/28/91 is both the highest quality and most consistent performance (i.e. closest to the records) in the same bootleg, even if the tracklist is a little short and mundane (none of the drop d songs like Negative Creep and Been a Son). In 92, 1/10/92 is a great disc (video is even better though) and 10/30/92 is awesome with its peformance of "Beeswax". In 1993, 10/23/93 is a must have for the only surfaced recording of "You've Got No Right," not to mention a funny intro from Bobcat Goldwaithe. In 1994, 2/25/94 is my favorite, an audience recording that sounds better than most SOUNDBOARDS and uncommon performances of Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge On Seattle and Verse Chorus Verse are it's high points, much better than the more popular "ROMA" disc from 2/22/94 in my opinion. The Smart Sessions are a great disc of studio work and Montage of Heck is an extremely weird and cool addition to anyone's collection, with sound collages and two songs, one commonly called "The Landlord" and an odd cover of Cher's "Gypsies, Tramps, and Thieves." For a hodge-podge of rare songs, I recommend the new remastered Outcesticide 1. Everything is great quality, with the new additions of the eulogies by Courtney Love and slightly rarer, Krist Novoselic. That is probably the one best compilation disc out there, I haven't seen any one disc that comes close.
Q. Hey! This guy has this show at 60 minutes, and that guy has it as 45 minutes, which is it?
Athough I only post the tapes/cd's that I have that are of the most complete, best quality version you can get, not all traders are like that, so if you're thinking about getting a show, check out other pages and see if the info about that one you're looking at is the same. There are some outdated versions of tapes, but also, it could be, "well, his is the full show at C+ quality, but mine is 35 minutes of it at A-" and then it's just a preference issue. Do you like quality, or the whole show better? Most experienced traders like myself like the whole show, because we've already got a few A+ quality shows, so that issue doesn't matter as much (some of the more "anal" traders have both versions!).
Q. I got this tape, and it's not a B+ at all, more like a D+! I got ripped off!
A. Not neccessarily. Grading is a personal thing, and varies from trader to trader (and tape to tape). If you can't hear the guitars as good and the vocals are loud, or vice versa, well, some people like that and give it a higher grade than someone who likes loud drums and bass, etc. Generally, the traders with more than 20 bootlegs are pretty consistent on this, but be skeptical if somebody with three tapes has a show listed as A- and everybody else has it at C+. Ask if somebody has an mp3 or wav file of the song they can send (and if you don't have an mp3 player, shame on you! And go to http://www.winamp.com right now!) NOT real audio, that is not CD quality, or anywhere close for that matter, so you won't be getting an accurate representation of the sound.
Q. I sent this guy my stuff, and I haven't gotten mine. It's been a couple of weeks. Have I been ripped off?
A. Possibly, but not likely, IF they have a good reputation to begin with. Most people have lives outside the computer, and shit happens, your car can break down, you know, stuff that delays the mailing of the tape. Nice people let you know when this happens, but if the problem is that their computer is busted and the source of your tape is in mp3, they can't mail you about it or make the tape, can they? If you trade and haven't gotten your tape after a month, give them one final chance and mail them, and if they don't respond, bring out the big guns. Post to UseNet, tell every webmaster that trades bootlegs that you can find, and this con artist will probably never be able to trade again!
Q. This guy has xx/xx/xx but will only trade it for rare trades. Why?
A. Although a lot of times what they have isn't even rare and they are being quite uppity (like for instance, the party show 87, and videos like 2/14/90 and 8/24/90 have been common for months, but still appear as rare on many lists), the reason is, that's the way the trading community gets more shows. There weren't always 250+ shows available to you, somebody had to find them/buy them/trade for them. And having a rare show is usually the only way to get other rare shows. And once you get one, if you play your cards right, you will always have a rare show that will get you other rare shows. Just be patient, wait a few months and it should be common, like what happened with the KAOS demo in 1998.
Q. Nirvana played here, then, but I can't find a tape of it. Why not?
A. There are many reasons. If it's an early show, probably because five people were there and nobody bothered to tape it. If it's a later show however, in a lot of cases it's being hoarded because it has a rare song or three on it, and they are looking for other rare things, and not even letting people know that they have it! Another example is, people have it, but just don't want to trade it, because they feel that trading is illegal (but obviously they don't think taping is!). Or the taper stuck it in the attic with the 150 other shows he taped that year and no one knows he has it. Shows like all but the first scenario are known as "unsurfaced." One example of an unsurfaced show is 8/6/93. It was bootlegged, but does anyone have it? Not to my knowledge. And a TON of rare songs were played that night, so people want that more than say, that unsurfaced europe 89 show where they played "School" for the zillionth time.
Q. IS bootlegging/taping illegal?
A. It depends
on the specific act you are performing. Trading tapes where cash
is not involved is NOT illegal. Selling bootleg CD's IS illegal.
This is different from PIRACY, where it would be like somebody making a
copy of "Nevermind" and selling it for 5 bucks. This is bad, NEVER
buy a pirated CD, and try to avoid buying bootleg CD's, though that isn't
nearly as bad as pirating, because a record company can't lose money on
something it hasn't released, can it?
1. When one side of a tape ends/CD-R
runs out of space before a song is over, ALWAYS RESTART THE SONG ON THE
NEXT SIDE/DISC!!!
2. I am interested in the following
types of shows: Complete shows, the most complete version of a show
surfaced, and higher quality but less complete (than a different version)
shows. I have in excess of 50 shows on cassette but I don't post
a lot of them because I won't trade them, simply because you can get a
better copy somewhere else. Either they are cut, or they are like 10th
gen copies, etc.
3. Always use brand new Maxwell
XLII-S tapes, verbatim DataLife plus CD-R's, or an unlabled brand of CD-R,
always send cases (unless we agree otherwise), always label the tapes,
and always put a setlist with it (either on provided j-card or with a J-card
computer program)
4. Strech the tape before recording
on it, and right before you mail it. This involves the simple procedure
of fast forwarding the tape all the way and then rewinding the tape back,
only takes a couple minutes.
4a. After stretching it, use one of
the four labels that comes with the tape to secure the gear in place, to
prevent slacking while shipping.
5. If there is a delay for some
reason, please inform me, I will be understanding because I have been delayed
before myself and will do the same for you (inform you of delays).
Do not rip me off!
4. Send in a thoroughly padded,
and thoroughly closed (go nuts with the clear tape on any openable side)
envelope or box. The Post Office likes to break/open/steal/lose things!
5. Inform me when you send your
side, and when you receive mine. I will of course do the same.
6. I will do 2:1's on tapes
OR CD-R's. All I ask is that my tape be an unopened Maxwell XLII-S
90 or 100 minutes, or 6 of those normal bias Sony tapes, 90 min, and that
you send $3 dollars shipping for every 4 tapes with cases, 6 tapes without.
You can also buy tapes from me for $6 ($5 apiece for more than 1). CDR's
should be any brand without labeling on the face (the top is blank) and
comes in a jewel case. Verbatim Data Life Plus is ok too. You can also
buy a CDR from me for $6 ($5 apiece for more than 1). Or send 2 XLII-S
tapes for 1 CDR. I'm flexible!!!
6a. U.S. FUNDS CASH ONLY!!! NO CHECKS!!!
This is not a rip off enabler (see references below), but a convienience
measure. With checks, I have to give them to my mom to cash, and
that is a HUGE drag. I will not rip you off. Just make sure that
the cash isn't visible, if mailing in a white envelope wrap in a sheet
of notebook paper, if in a package with CDRS or tapes put inside the case.
7. I will no longer trade FOR
tapes, unless it is rare, but I will still send them out 2:1. All
tape copies come from my Pioneer CT-W606DR, which uses Dolby HX PRO and
has the highest frequency response out of any consumer audio cassette deck.
I can use Dolby B or C upon request, but don't otherwise. CD copies
come from a Philips 2x2x6 CD-RW and a Mitsumi 32x CD-ROM drive. I can put
tape onto CD-R now, and the 2 sec gap in CD-R copies is fixed.
*NEW* 8. I do NOT want any show
sourced from .mp3 file, unless it's rare. Analog or uncompressed
digital sources please!
ire32land@aol.com
hppyface@swbell.net
SPICERPUBL@aol.com
ifyoumustk@aol.com
Iveryape@aol.com
Evad195@aol.com
PacoFoo@aol.com
bbarker007@hotmail.com
ku2tcobain@aol.com
ksproul@fit.edu