Subject: Prime Minister : interview
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:10:56 +1000

17 June 2002

TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER
THE HON JOHN HOWARD MP
ITERVIEW WITH ALEXANDRA KIRK - AM, ABC RADIO

	Subjects: Iraq; excision of Australian territories; trade; International Criminal Court; Senate opposition to budget measures

E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………

KIRK:

Mr Howard, welcome.

PRIME MINISTER:

Good morning.

KIRK:

You've just back from the US where you did talk about the war on terror and so far Australia's been very supportive of the US approach. Does it surprise you to hear this report that President Bush has signed an order directing the CIA to undertake a covert operation to remove the Saddam Hussein?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well it's only a report. I don't know even whether the report is true or false and if you want to find out I guess you have to ask the White House. But there's no doubt that Americans are very focussed on Iraq. There's no doubt about that. But as I said in Washington and I repeat here, and I've said before in Australia, we haven't received any approach to provide support for American action against Iraq. If we were to be so approached then we'd consider it on the merits, at the time, in the circumstances.

KIRK:

But would Australia's support for a US led war against terror extend to this modus operandi?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well it's not for me to sort of pass judgement on speculative reports that may or may not be correct about what US intelligence agencies might say and I don't intend to do so.

KIRK:

But would you support a covert operation...

PRIME MINISTER:

Well I've just given you the answer to that.

KIRK:

On the issue of free trade which you discussed with the Bush Administration Mr Bush is making positive noises but now it's all up to Congress to give him the powers on trade. Are the Americans putting any demands on Australia as a quid pro quo for a free trade agreement such as for example US content in our media?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well that certainly hasn't ever been raised with me. It certainly wasn't raised last week. Look the situation in America is that before the President can negotiate with anybody, any trade agreement, he's got to have what's called Trade Promotion Authority from Congress and I understand that's quite close and I believe that if that promotion authority is granted then the Americans will seriously address negotiations with Australia. I think negotiations will start, but it will be very difficult and they will drive a hard bargain and we will drive a hard bargain.  Let there be no false illusion. It's going to be very hard and it may not come off. I've said that all along. I've always been very measured in what I've said about this and I've kept the expectations reasonable but it is worth trying because this is the biggest economy in the world and if we can lock further into it then that will be of enormous benefit to Australia's long term future.  But in the process of those toug!
h negotiations we are certainly not going to give away vital Australian interests particularly in the farm sector.  But if you don't try you'll never know and you may well pass up an opportunity of getting an historic economic agreement that will be of enormous long-term benefit to this country. Bit it will be tough and we've got to keep a reign on expectations.

KIRK:

You've seen that the US argument on another issue which is signing up to the International Criminal Court, you regard the US argument against it as powerful. In the face of substantial opposition within your own ranks to Australia signing up your Foreign Minister Alexander Downer is proposing a compromise, that is ratification but with a declaration that Australia can veto the appearance of its own citizens before the court. Is that possible? Would it have any legal standing whatsoever?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well our position at present, the Government's formal position is there is a disposition to ratify. That is our current position. Now there have been concerns expressed amongst some of our Members and Senators and as a result I'm having a process of extensive consultation with the Party Room and I'm quite open about that. It's the sensible thing to do. When that consultation has been completed Cabinet will consider the matter again and until that happens I'm not going to take the matter any further except to observe that there are some strong arguments on both sides. It's not an easy issue. We all want to capture the butchers and the murderers. We all do.  We all want to catch Pol Pot, and we all want to catch the others. The question of how you do it effectively and you do it in a way that doesn't endanger people doing their duty and so forth is of course the issue on the table. But we're still talking it through and when that process has been completed, and not before, the m!
atter will go back to Cabinet for a final decision.

KIRK:

But do you think it is possible to reach a compromise?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well you're inviting me to sort of speculate about the outcome and I'm listening ever so carefully to what my colleagues on both sides of the argument are saying and until I've completed that listening process I'm not saying any more.

KIRK:

Would it be a bit embarrassing for the Government after having supported the ICC and allowed Mr Downer to go out and convince other countries....

PRIME MINISTER:

Next question Alex.

KIRK:

...for the past six years not to sign up?

PRIME MINISTER:

Next question.

KIRK:

Right well on a domestic front you've got a number of challenges this week and one of them is the excision powers that the Government is seeking and the Senate is saying basically no.  Labor has joined the Democrats and the Greens in saying that they don't want to support these powers and they will vote to disallow them. The boat which was coming from Indonesia, that was the report which supposedly prompted the Government to go for these powers, what's happened to that boat?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well Alex this is an important issue, a very important issue and what the Labor Party's attitude as announced by Mr Crean indicates is what I believed all along and that is the Labor Party is soft on border protection. The islands have been excised by regulation under an Act of Parliament which the Labor Party supported last year.  When Labor voted for this legislation last year they were voting to give the Minister the power by regulation to excise islands and how on earth can you reconcile an intention to disallow this regulation with the decision last year to support the excision of Christmas Island and Ashmore Reef unless you are going soft on border protection. We are doing something under an Act of Parliament which the Labor Party fully supported last now. Now they have.....

KIRK:

But what.....

PRIME MINISTER:

.....this is very important. See this is not a new Act of Parliament.  This is a ministerial regulation, a government decision by ministerial regulation under a power given by the Parliament with full Labor Party support and that means the Labor Party has gone back on the support that it claimed to extend to the Government last year.  So we're not proposing any extension of a power and if it's all right to excise Ashmore Reef and Christmas Island then why isn't it all right to excise these other islands.  I mean all this talk about Tasmania is a complete red herring. It was never an issue. And this phoney argument of Mr Crean's that they'll be attracted to the mainland because you excise the islands, well if you believe that why did he vote for the legislation last year?  I mean if they're going to be attracted by the excision of these islands in the Torres Strait to go to the mainland why weren't they attracted to come to the mainland by the excision of Ashmore Reef and Chri!
stmas Island.  And the fact is through the excision of Ashmore Reef and Christmas Island they haven't been attracted to the mainland, they haven't come to the mainland. In fact they've not really come anywhere. So why on earth would the Labor Party vote against the extension of an extraordinarily successful border protection policy unless they were really soft on border protection?

KIRK:

Well if they say as you say if they haven't come anywhere near Australia why the need to excise the extra islands anyway.....

PRIME MINISTER:

Well because....

 KIRK:

.....and if this excision was prompted by this supposed boatload coming from Indonesia which we haven't heard anything more about why do you need to do it?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well Alex you will understand from your experience that you don't give running commentaries every day on intelligence reports you may have received. There were reasons given in the discussions for the Government's action, reasons given to Mr Crean and his colleagues. I mean he's chosen to say that he doesn't accept that. Well that's his political decision. But we have reason and we gave a broad outline of that and in a situation like this although we've been very successful we can't be certain more boats won't come and what I'm saying to the Australian people is that all we are endeavouring to do with this is to maintain and extend a policy that has been remarkably successful in deterring boats from coming to Australia and the Labor Party is going to vote against that extension.

KIRK:

The other problem that you have in the Senate this week is your budget measures and the challenge to those. The Democrats are saying that they will write to the Treasurer this week and say that they are still opposed to your changes to the disability support pension, increase in the cost of prescription drugs, and also cutting the superannuation surcharge. So they're also saying that they would look though at other measures, for example means testing the health insurance rebate if it's proven necessary that you need to raise the extra revenue.  Would you do that?

PRIME MINISTER:

Well no because it's not our policy. I mean Alex seven months ago we had a thing called an election and, you know, the Coalition did win that election. It wasn't a draw. And one of our policies in the election was to make improvements and reforms to superannuation. We're implementing that mandate. As far as Pharmaceutical Benefits are concerned and Disability Support Pension we are only doing in relation to the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme what the Labor Party itself did in office and that is from time to time adjust the patient contribution.  Given the soaring cost of this it's an eminently reasonable proposal. Nobody likes it, I mean nobody likes it. But if you've got something that's, you know, ballooning out of control as far as cost is concerned you've got to do something. On disability we are looking at some options there and Amanda Vanstone flagged them the day after the budget and we'll continue to do that and I'm quite happy to talk to the Democrats about that. But !
it's on the basis of what the Government elected at the election has put on the table.

KIRK:

But the Democrats are saying no to those things.

 PRIME MINISTER:

Well we'll see. I mean they often say no at the beginning and then it, you know, it blends away into an intelligent compromise and I hope that proves to be the case. But in the end in our system of government you have an election every three years and the government that wins has got an opportunity of putting up proposals and oppositions should respond sensibly and I believe in the end the Senate will be sensible about most of these things. I hope they will.

KIRK:

John Howard, thank you.

PRIME MINISTER:

A pleasure.

[Ends]

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