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I found this to be an interesting discussion thread on R

Caution-Wet Paint

I found this to be an interesting discussion thread on R.G.M.W. and felt like including it on my site, any replies I felt were OT I left out.

Travis Price
Question for the Ladies
1 of 195
Thu, 30 Mar 2000 03:13:07 GMT

OK here's the situation. My Lady Doesn't Play With Me!!!!!!!!!! (at least not Warhammer). She like to paint the pretty figures and she loves RPGs I just can't get her to motivated to get into the game.
I also realize that I love the game for some rather 'Machismo' reasons and am probably missing a few of the finer aspects of the hobby.
My question Ladies is then this.....what attracts the ladies to this hobby. I mean really it can't be restrooms at the local hobby shop or the throngs of prepubescent, foul mouthed, gangly goofs that seem to haunt the tables. What is then?
Thanx in advanced.

Kaine71
2 of 195 (In response to Travis Price)
Thu, 30 Mar 2000 03:39:21 GMT

I don't know about the other responses that you will get, but my wife thinks the whole thing is pretty much a silly waste of money. She has absolutely no interest in gaming at all. Come to think of it, most of the women I know have no interest in it. I guess it must be mainly a "guy" thing.
"Travis Price"

Aimee Love
3 of 195 (In response to Travis Price)
Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:02:54 -0500

Well, like your wife I'm more into RPG's. I was in the military and I do like some wargames for the tactics involved. I think the painting of the miniatures is what got me into the whole wargame thing. I painted Tyranids before I knew what they were and liked the otherworldly nature of these creatures. About the only wargame I play currently is Battlefleet Gothic, and it started with painting the miniatures too. I do enjoy the strategy aspects of these games, but seem to gravitate more toward the RPG's.
Another thing that I find annoying about wargames is the tremendous amount time involved (painting, planning, rules, schedules) which has limited me playing these games. I don't see how you guys have the time to get everything done and still have time to play so much. But I guess I play RPG's more, so.

GrimWulf
4 of 195 (In response to Aimee Love)
Thu, 30 Mar 2000 05:11:56 GMT

I don't see how you guys have the time to get everything done and still have time to play so much. But I guess I play RPG's more, so.
Some guys sacrifice things like hygiene so they can play.

Justin Taylor
6 of 195 (In response to Travis Price)
Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:39:51 +0100

It's a male dominated hobby, just get used to it.

SunnyLKoss
7 of 195 (In response to Travis Price)
30 Mar 2000 09:16:59 GMT

My question Ladies is then this.....What attracts the ladies to this hobby. The same thing that attracts you guys to the hobby. The problem for us is we don't get the chance to play. I show up at a shop to play and within seconds I have a crowd of boys hanging on me. Things are even worse now that the card games are so popular. Before that we had the shops to ourselves and not that many young people played back then, now......please the 10 year olds are starting to notice us and they flock to anything with breast.
Hey not that I am complaining mind you it's nice to have attention, sometimes it's even helpful to distract my opponent :) but more often than not it's over kill. Even among the older guys they look at us as objects to acquire. They think that just because we have games in common that I am willing to sleep with them!
On another point most of us prefer games more along the roleplaying lines, I can't really figure it out as I like both. I don't really think it's the violence because you get more of that in roleplaying games (more chance for guys to bring up sex to).
What did it for me was the figures, I love my Slannesh army. I can knock heads with the best of you guys and still have my pretty colors lol
The only advise I can offer is to get a few of your friends to drag their ladies along to watch. It's more comfortable for us in groups. It's hard being the only female in the group, how would you feel if you found yourself at a Tupperware party or something like that lol
I mean really it can't be restrooms at the local hobby shop or the throngs of prepubescent, foul mouthed, gangly goofs that seem to haunt the tables. What is then?
Thanx in advanced.

Polly
8 of 195 (In response to Travis Price)
Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:22:39 +1200

It is "If you can't beat 'em join 'em" for me. RPGs seem to have more creative scope 40k etc has too many rules. Mind you I am not sure you could really call me a "lady"
or the throngs of prepubescent, foul mouthed, gangly goofs that seem to haunt the tables.
And the above makes me NOT want to ever play at all.

Paul Lesack
13 of 195 (In response to Polly)
Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:32:31 -0800

It is "If you can't beat 'em join 'em" for me. RPGs seem to have more creative scope 40k etc has too many rules. Mind you I am not sure you could
You obviously don't play GURPS. . .
My wife plays both RPGs and wargames (although she hates 40K). She says she likes it for both the complexity of the thought involved, and the ability to play with nicely painted toys. It's too bad I'm the one who purchases and paints them, but at least I always have someone to play with.

Amin_Ibrahim
14 of 195 (In response to Travis Price)
Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:27:56 -0600

Get her some Sisters of Battle, and keep making sexist remarks until she feels the urge to hand you your ass on the gaming table. Beware though, it might backfire. If it does, you can expect to either get kicked in nuts or sleep on the couch.

Amin_Ibrahim
15 of 195 (In response to SunnyLKoss)
Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:37:29 -0600

I really don't mind the youngsters who play miniatures. I used to be one of those little brats, and they're really fine if you give them a guiding hand without the "better than thou" attitude most adults have towards youngsters. I frikkin hate the card game people though. Especially when little brats start arguing about fucking Pokemon. In all my years of gaming, I have only ever seen one lady playing a miniatures game, and she had a Brettonian fantasy battle army. The RPG thing is pretty cool, but, painting aside, I find that it takes more time than miniatures. I don't think I can commit to something once every week at a set time.

Chris Townsend
16 of 195 (In response to Travis Price)
Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:37:14 -0500

There's an interesting science called Sociolinguistics, Which is the study of how the sexes use language to communicate and how they play their games. One of the reasons warhammer fits to men is that it emphasizes competition, and men use language and games to establish rank. We use language to "put people in their place" and establish our superiority over them. We use the warhammer minis, and more importantly our dialogue that goes on while we play, to establish which opponent is better.
All the GW games have a very set rule structure, and while they are flexible, we adhere to them, even when we make up house rules, it's a definite change and we stick to it. Think of the games traditionally associated with boys, war, baseball, basketball, all have set rules and everyone follows them.
Painting minis, on the other hand, is a much more flexible system, with no set rules and the option for creativity. Many American girls enjoy playing "tea party" or "house" with no set rule structure and with an emphasis on conversation, which in women is used to establish intimacy. As such, some women translate this over to competitive sports as well. The only way I could get my sister to play a game of ping-pong against me was to play "just for fun", not keeping score and laxing up on the rules.
Your lady may see the rules as constricting or unnecessary. Or she may not be interested in the competitive slaughter-the-other mentality of the game. RPG's are by their very nature more flexible, and in a good chunk of the RPG's that I've played, the emphasis was always placed on problem solving and less on combat.
What to do? You could try "playing just for fun", and make up some different house rules, you could try mixing armies (my sis always goes, "So what CAN'T the Lizardmen have any allies? "Because they just don't is why!"), or something similar to that.
Now the science is called SOCIOlinguistics, so these traits, competition and the like, must be learned. I'm quite sure there are plenty of females out there who love the game and the competition, and males who just want to paint and not deal in that combat. But we do have very defined gender roles in the United States (another thing about Sociolinguistics is it's culturally relative) that affect how we use language and what we do.
Good luck and good gaming

Kenneth
17 of 195 (In response to Chris Townsend)
Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:56:29 -0800

That was a very nice piece on Sociolinguistics applied to females and wargamming. I think you lost a lot of your audience though, I enjoyed your commentary. It was nice to hear something other than the normal blithering opinions. (Not that I am saying that this discussion thread is getting blithering opinions. Quite the contrary, I especially liked SunnyLKoss's reply.)
There's an interesting science called sociolinguistics which is the study of how the sexes use language to communicate and how they play their games.

cjway1221
20 of 195 (In response to Travis Price)
Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:51:47 GMT

OK here's the situation. My Lady Doesn't Play With Me!!!!!!!!!! (at least not Warhammer).
She likes to paint the pretty figures and she loves RPGs I just can't get her to motivated to get into the game.
Mordheim Yes Mordheim
My wife had absolutely no interest in WHFB but when me and the buds started talking about "advance rolls", "experience", losing heroes, exploration, scarred and maimed heroes she was in. Now I have a permanent opponent, now if I can only convince her to try something other than the "Ratty Guys" ;-)

Trashcanma
26 of 195 (In response to Paul Lesack)
Thu, 30 Mar 2000 13:32:43 -0800

My girlfriend plays 40k with me and small group of our friends. She slowly was drawn to it because of the massive amount of time I spent with the hobby. She really perked up when the Sisters of Battle army came out and she discovered a HUGE talent for painting minis. She still will not play with any body else or even go to the hobby store because of the louts that hang out there. I tell her its just this local store, and not ALL gamers are sex obsessed geeks (or we can hide it well :-) Another problem she has is the price...I am content to pour my paycheck into the game, but she says she has to pay something called the rent or some odd dealy. But one word to you ladies out there...her support for my hobby, whether or not she was playing, means everything to me. So even if your guy seems to be lost in a fantasy world of little tin army men, give him a smile and tell him, "yes, its ok to miss dinner at my mom's so that you can stop the hordes of chaos...I understand" :-)
Then again, by on the flip side...you better support her right back and yes, even spend time with her, or she may not stay around to see you return as the Hero of the Crusade

Big Al
27 of 195 (In response to trashcanma)
31 Mar 2000 01:47:43 GMT

Robbie Matthews
29 of 195 (In response to Kaine71)
Fri, 31 Mar 2000 02:52:59 GMT

I know quite a few women who like Role-playing, and quite a number of them like collecting and painting the miniatures (my wife included) but I don't know many who actually play table-top games. It seems to be a pretty consistent pattern.

Robbie
PS: OTOH, all my female role-playing friends are sudden death when it comes to card games. And Rail Baron. Go figure.
I don't know about the other responses that you will get, but my wife thinks the whole thing is pretty much a silly waste of money. She has absolutely no interest in gaming at all. Come to think of it, most of the women I know have no interest in it. I guess it must be mainly a "guy" thing.

Robbie Matthews
30 of 195 (In response to cjway1221)
Fri, 31 Mar 2000 03:00:50 GMT

Mordheim Yes Mordheim
My wife had absolutely no interest in WHFB but when me and the buds started talking about "advance rolls", "experience", losing heroes, exploration, scarred and maimed heroes she was in. Now I have a permenant oppenent, now if I can only convince her to try something other than the "Ratty Guys" ;-)
Actually, that makes a lot of sense. A large part of the pleasure in RPG's is the building up of your character, and seeing it getting stronger and tougher (and occasionally weaker and with less limbs). WH40K does not lend itself to this sort of continuity, whereas it seems to be a central part of Mordheim.

SunnyLKoss
31 of 195 (In response to Kurt)
31 Mar 2000 05:38:20 GMT

It's not just the 10 year olds :)
Oh by no means just them, but they have a lot less tact than the older guys do. Not always mind you but they do come in larger numbers it seems.
You should try playing them and whipping them silly, that will sour their interest pretty fast.
Winning would not be hard at all, they are to busy drooling to play lol

SunnyLKoss
32 of 195 (In response to Amin_Ibrahim)
31 Mar 2000 05:50:18 GMT

I really don't mind the youngsters who play miniatures. I used to be one of those little brats,
I don't mind either, I am sure my brother could tell you all sorts of stories about what a pain I was, always tagging along to watch him play. But there is a marked difference between a young person that plays and one that plays only to get next to you, this goes for the older guys too.

When I show up to play I am there to do just that, if I wanted to go out to dinner or a movie then I would be doing that. Mind you I understand that there is nothing wrong with asking someone out, how else would you meet someone. But when your playing and between every dice roll you make someone wants to talk to you, that gets a little uncomfortable. What's really bad is I am not some super model, I am rather plain (but you did not hear that from me). Were this any other place I would not get anywhere near this many guys asking me out, so why do I? It's easy I play games and I admit that girls like me are hard to find so guys really dig it.

But it all goes back to why more of us do not play, simply put we feel uncomfortable in large groups of guys. I am polite (well most of the time) and it makes me feel bad to have to say no all the time, but they just keep coming. lol I suppose I am a bit of a hypocrite, cause if I showed up and I was ignored I would feel bad too. Personally I would love it if more of us played, even more so I wished that more people in general played. More people means more victims to plow :)

SunnyLKoss
33 of 195 (In response to Polly)
31 Mar 2000 05:56:10 GMT

for me. RPGs seem to have more creatrive scope 40k etc has too many rules. Mind you I am not sure
I always looked at it in reverse, in a roleplaying game you don't have half the limits as you do in a wargame, so a wargame is more clean cut. What rules there are tend to be easier to understand that a concept of character.
And the above makes me NOT want to ever play at all. I don't mind the foul mouth so much, not that i have one, but i grew up with brothers so that sort of thing is normal to me. as for the prepubescent youth, well admittedly I fit more in with them than the older crowd. I am 20 but look 15 so you can imagine the trouble that causes

RT Maitreya
35 of 195 (In response to SunnyLKoss)
Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:13:40 -0500

well admittedly i fit more in with them than the older crowd. I am 20 but look 15 so you can imagine the trouble that causes
MmmHmmm. Tough one, that. All the wee ones are busy buttering you up, and the adults are busy trying to keep their distance. . . Went out with a very young-looking lass once. We kept getting kicked out of bars and such even though she *was* twenty one. Gads what a pain for her to be carded when we bought some spray primer at an auto parts store.
THAT was embarrassing for all parties involved.

Vegetta
36 of 195 (In response to trashcanma)
Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:07:22 -0800

My girlfriend plays 40k with me and small group of our friends.
Man you are 1 lucky guy! Mrs. Vegetta only plays talisman (she is a complete bastard when she plays!!) But she shows no interest in Warhammer. My only hope is that one-day GW releases a set of minis she likes (with proper girly fluff) bring on the Amazons!!
She still will not play with any body else or even go to the hobby store because of the louts that hang out there. I tell her its just this local store, and not ALL gamers are sex obsessed geeks (or we can hide
I think this is a universal problem. My wife will go nowhere near any comic/game store. She said she feels like people will start trying to put dollar bills in her pants at any second.(can u say smokin bod)
Another problem she has is the price...I am content to
pour my paycheck into the game, but she says she has to pay something called the rent or some odd dealy.
OH another common problem...WHAT!!! did u not just spend 50$ last week?? OH GROW UP!!!IN this example you may think you are doomed my brothers, NOT SO!!! Simply REMIND her about all the (shoes, clothes, purses, jewelry, makeup, etc etc.)she has bought in the last month or so(I would not count Victoria's Secret ) If most of you guys are like me, you probably have had the same clothes for the last 10 years or so (LOL)
Remember you gotta be patient you can't expect anyone to learn all the rules right off If you have gaming friends your wife likes have them team up on you or vice versa.
"iroguro no yosei ichiban"

Thomas Stober
37 of 195 (In response to Aimee Love)
Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:25:14 +0200

Another thing that I find annoying about wargames is the tremendous amount time involved (painting, planning, rules, schedules) which has limited me playing these games. I don't see how you guys have the time to get everything done and still have time to play so much. But I guess I play RPG's more, so.
Hmmh, strange. My group started to play WFB when we realized that those RPGs were taking up too much time to prepare the sessions. Also you have to find an evening where all 4 or 5 persons in the recent adventure have time.
The biggest advantage of the wargaming to me is that you can arrange a battle and begin playing within less than half an hour and there are hardly more than two persons involved.

Paul Hoerner
42 of 195 (In response to SunnyLKoss)
Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:34:39 -0600

I'll raise my hand(s) proudly then. My wife doesn't wargame with me, unfortunately, but she does paint occasionally for me, more so before kids occupied our lives. To borrow your quote, she's no supermodel, but she's pretty with a light build. We'll be married 13 years in May, and I've seen her with makeup on less than 50 times. She doesn't even have her ears pierced and barely wears any jewelry (which is kind of annoying, it would make shopping for presents a lot easier if she did).

Amin_Ibrahim
44 of 195 (In response to SunnyLKoss)
Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:20:03 -0600

How about both?? personally, when I get married in the far, far future (I'm 19, lay off) I'd much rather have my wife play wargames with me than wear makeup. It will also hopefully keep her busy so that she doesn't go to town with my credit card. I'm just going to buy a few groceries my ass.

SunnyLKoss
46 of 195 (In response to Amin_Ibrahim)
31 Mar 2000 20:18:49 GMT

makeup. It will also hopefully keep her busy so that she doesn't go to town with my credit card. I'm just going to buy a few groceries my ass.
lol i spend 3 times more on games than i do on food, and about 1.5 times more than i do on clothes. I enjoy painting and building my armies up just about as much as i like going out on the town, depending on the company you understand :)

Amin_Ibrahim
47 of 195 (In response to SunnyLKoss)
Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:48:31 -0600

Rad. That's how it should be. Being a college dude, I have few expenses. A large chunk of my allowance goes towards miniatures. Dammit though, I just wish dates were cheaper. Even the ultra-basic dinner and a movie sets you back 30 or so bucks. Damn. It's not that I'm cheap, I'm just fucking poor, and don't want to work till I have to. Games Workshop needs to attract more girls to the hobby.

Kurt
48 of 195 (In response to SunnyLKoss)
31 Mar 2000 23:32:09 GMT

After being powerbombed through the Spanish announcers' table, SunnyLKoss was heard to utter...
REMIND her about all the(shoes,clothes,purses,jewelry,makeup,etc etc)she has bought in the last month or so(I would not count Victoria`s Secret ) Oh pleeeze, you guys expect a girl to look her best, that cost money and takes time, and as for Victoria's Secret :) Show of hands, how many of you guys would rather have your lay play wargames with you or spend all her time and money as VS LOL
I'd say wargames every time. I've been gouged by GW, and I've been gouged buying the missus a new outfit, and as bad as GW are they've got a lot to learn about extorting money out of poor suckers right before they get screwed.

RT Maitreya
Re: Question for the Ladies
Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:07:58 -0500

The Cheshire Cat wrote:
"Sure, baby, I can replace your headlight for you. No problem. You don't have to take it into the shop." Y'know, being all studly and stuff.
hey, does this mean im a stud cause i get my girlfriend to go gaming with me every monday?
It's KINDA the same idea, but kinda not. I think you are more studly for finding/converting/ seducing/whatever a woman who games rather than
for bringing her along now. . . The latter is more likely to gain you admiration from your peers, and particularly the juves/yoofs/ratlings, but it is more showmanship than true studliness.

At this point anything worthwhile seems to have been said and the discussion thread was overran by inane off-topic remarks by the usual people.

The End