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From: Joseph Wheeler - Ship Builder

( The following part of the interview takes place just prior to the 57 minute mark )

…before I sign off there's one other thing I didn't tell you about the 15 western states. The United States are on a plane that floats on the Pacific Ocean and naval submarines can go under those 15 states anywhere around into those 15 states.

…I found it out completely by accident… driving back and forth between Las Vegas and Reno. Halfway between is a little town called Hawthorne and there's hardly anything there.

There's a Navy base called the Naval under sea training center. They have a little lake there it's 15 miles long (and) deep… what I found out is they have an elevator that goes down from the surface at Hawthorne down 3,400 feet to the level of a Pacific Ocean, and they have three or four entrances on the Pacific coast.

One of them is at Monterey Bay. One of them is (near/below) Malibu and they can just take their submarines, go in and go anywhere under these 15 states, like Lake Tahoe (which) is one of the place they can go.

Pyramid Lake is one of the place. There's probably 15 or 20. They can go To that Navy base, Norfolk or Edwards Air Force Base. They're all over the place but it's a really interesting operation and very few people know about it.

Now the reason they picked on Thorne Is because Hawthorne has traditionally been the place (of) a novela expert specific weapons and ammunition for submarines

…and before they found out about this Pacific Ocean underlying 15 other states they had to put north to Alameda or south to San Diego, and in addition to these they have the Navy high-speed tubes that can take maybe personnel or any other personnel all around the world in minutes, and this was not built by us. This was built (by) a prior civilization…

There have been (ancient civilizations) far more advanced… and that's why you find complete cities like it off the coast of Japan, under the Sahara Desert, complete cities that aren't used anymore and we're just in the middle of making another city there, but all that has been going on.

Okay very good as someone wants to know about the Dulce whistleblower Thomas Costello. They want to know if he survived. (Do) you know anything about that?

No I don't think so. I was the one that originally got caught up in that. I (was) there (at a meeting) for researchers in 1988 that met up in… Colorado and during that meeting Tom Adams from Texas came up to me and says, John I got this letter and I wondered if you'd handle it… see I just don't have the time and I'm not going to get to Las Vegas, so he gave me the letter that was written DM by Jerry Ankle.

Jerry Ankle was who I called Mr. X. There Was no Mr. X. It was Cherry, and when I got this letter when I got back from the conference there… I met with her in Henderson and she told me about Thomas Castello, and she showed me some of the drawings and the photos that he had made, and I was just talking about that today… with somebody on the Facebook, and I was the one that originally Wrote the Dulce papers and the information I got was from Cherry, whose friend worked as a security guard there.

Now when he decided to escape and get out of there because he didn't like the things that were going on, he made six packets of information. Each packet held 25 black-and-white photos, six minutes of videotape of a hallway (that) went up and down the… and 100 pages of information, and he took six packets of those and put them in (waterproof) containers (and mailed them) to 26 of his friends, and he said I'm gonna contact you every four months and let you know I'm okay, but if they find me (he said) I won't be able to maintain contact (with) you

If I miss (if she didn’t hear from him in) eight months, you can do whatever you want with that information.

So in 1996 he missed two meetings and I'm not sure exactly how it happened, but I think Cherry either led, or was involved in, three of the exhibition's… that she had been given, and he had (?) between Kingman and… Las Vegas.

She actually drove me there when i first Learned about it this. (It) would have been in (the year) 1988, she drove me there and showed me approximately where…

Now in 1996 I was busy flying (his Lear jet, invented by his father William Lear), so I didn't get a chance to look for it, but I know the guys that were there and they put on a good search, but they never did find it, and none of the other packages were found either, but yes… the Dulce story is true. I went there in 1988 and (Gabe) Valdez was the head of the Highway Patrol there, and I called him up.

I said… Mr. Valdez, you don't know me. My name is… he said, I know who you are John, you came here 20 years ago with Dean Martin. You know when Dean Martin was filming a movie here, and you brought his girlfriend… from Van Nuys (in) the Learjet. I was the one that met you there.

So anyway I told (of) my interest in that Dulce (base) and the other stuff what was Going on, and… he invited me to drive with him on his nightly tour, and we left… at 10 o'clock and didn't return till 6 o'clock in the morning, and it was such an interesting time and I kept close contact with Gabe Valdes until he passed away a couple years ago, so yes, Thomas Castello is a real guy. I never met him but I certainly was familiar with the information he gave to Cherry ( Cherry Hinkle? ) and I was the one that wrote the Dulce papers and I was the one that drew the pictures that are in the… Papers. Now those pictures Cherry drew in pencil from the photos that Thomas showed her.

I was the one that took those pencil drawings and we did them with a felt-tip pen so, they were easier to see, and the information on the front of the Dulce papers is easy to prove that it's mine because it was typed on an IBM executive typewriter that about in 1955 (I) always had with me. It's one of the very few that are still operating or were operating at that time, and the speed that's the type basis used there and the IBM executive was the first typewriter to use proposed proportional spacing, and so… I can prove that page one of the Dulce papers was mine.

Okay, was that who's Branton mentioned?

Yeah, he's the one that live(s) in Utah that wrote the Branton files…

The Dulce Matrix

which gave me so much information. I don't know how he got that much information, but if anybody can get it, I think you (can go) there on the web. I have a binder here, a three inch binder, just full of the Branton files which were tremendously informative and and interesting.

Yeah you know they've been wrapped into a book (published by) by a television producer named Robert Tisk. They're on the front page of my website

if anyone wants to buy his books there's three of them, at least three of them, excellent information. He just compiled all the information you could find… yeah, it's amazing… the information, yeah excellent stuff.

Well, I don't want to keep you too long, you've been a really, you know, very very good trooper sticking with us here John…