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Comparison between Dashan'gar and Taimandred

1: Introduction

The aim of this theory is to show that the type of evidence used in Taimandred theory is identical to the methods used in Dashan'gar theory (Dashiva = Oran'gar). Hopefully as a result I will dispell some of the contempt for the methodology employed by Taimandred theorists such as my humble self, as well as scoring a few more points for said theory.

In general, assuming Taimandred is true, Osan'gar was like a less effective impersonation of Demandred: he had very similar aims but gave himself away and was generally more obvious. As we shall see there are many important parallels between Taimandred and Dashan'gar. Where Osan'gar makes a big slip up, Demandred would make a smaller one, or not a slip but still be suggestive of Taimandred to the reader.

Before book 9 when Dashan'gar was still doubted by some, techniques similar to those used to argue for Taimandred were used to attempt to prove it, and were scorned as much as they are now. But now that we know Dashan'gar is true we can only assume that these were deliberate insertions by Jordan, and so we look for similarities in Taim's scenes.

2: Contempt for Swords

Book 7, "Hill of the Golden Dawn",
He [Dashiva] tugged his sword-belt straight, which it did not need. Supposedly they trained with the swords as much as with the Power, but Dashiva did not seem to know one end from the other."

book 7, "Ta'veren"
...even Dashiva resplendent with the red-and-gold Dragon on his black collar, though he still managed to handle the sword at his hip as if constantly surprised to find it there.

c.f. from Taim,
Book 6, "Lessons and Teachers
"What good are swords?... I can barely avoid stabbing myself, and I've never felt the lack."
Now, one could come up with dozens of legitimate justifications for the above passages for either person, and ordinarily i would have to concede the point. But knowing Dashan'gar is true, this was a Jordan hint to us, and we should look for something similar in Taim, which, surprise surprise, we find.

3: Liberal use of the Old Tongue

book 8, "Floating Like Snow"
[Dashiva] muttered angrily under his breath. In the Old Tongue, which he spoke and read as fluently as a scholar. Rand knew a little, though not enough to understand what the fellow was mumbling.

Book 7, "The Butcher's Yard"
"The Old Tongue...I read a great deal on the farm. Every book the peddlers brought by."

c.f. From Taim, the creation of titles such as M'hael and the other additions with extra words attached, such as tsorovan'm'hael and baijan'm'hael.

Case in point. Whereas Osan'gar doesn't have enough self-control (especially when having to keep up his act for long periods of time on the Seanchan campaign) to keep the Old Tongue to himself, Demandred would feel fine making Old Tongue titles, and then that one small slip-up.

4: Leaks from the Age of Legends

Book 7, "Into Cairhein"
"All it needs is one man with a... a bow or a knife, and you don't see him in time."
c.f.
Book 6, "Threads Woven in Shadow"
[Sammael:] "An arrow may not be a shocklance, but it can still kill you."
c.f. from Taim,
Book 6, "Lessons and Teachers"
"Who can know what these so-called Aiel will do?"
One of the most dubious quotes from Dashiva, knowing Dashan'gar it is obvious that he was going to say "shocklance" or something similar from the Age of Legends, but thought better. In light of this it is highly understandable that Demandred would give himself away, though knowing he is more disciplined it would be harder to detect, as the above quote is.

5: Ironic Surprise

Book 8, "A Time for Iron"
[Rand:] "Nobody stands nose-to-nose with the Dragon Reborn.... The Forsaken could tell him [The Seanchan commander] that, whoever he is. Right, Flinn? Dashiva?" Flinn nodded uncertainly. Dashiva flinched.

Book 7, "A Crown of Swords"
[Rand:] "You're all going to help me kill Sammael today." Only Dashiva looked startled; the other men just nodded.

c.f. with Taim,
Book 6, "A Woman's Eyes"
[Rand:] "Keep a watch out for any student who learns to fast. Let me know immediately. One of the Forsaken might try to slip in among the students."
"One of the Forsaken!" It was almost a whisper. For the second time, Taim looked shaken, this time well and truly taken aback.
I don't know if you could do any better than this. The situations are so similar I almost suspect Jordan of setting this up deliberately. Same with the point after this.

6: Reaction to Cleansing Saidin

Book 8, "Message from the M'Hael"
Rand had not realized he had spoken any of his thoughts [about cleansing saidin] aloud. Narishma's eyes, and Morr's, and Hopwil's, belonged in one face, shining with sudden hope. Dashiva looked poleaxed.

Book 6, "A Woman's Eyes"
"Cleanse saidin," Taim said softly. "I think that would take more power than you can imagine."

Not as obvious as the last quote, but just as important with consideration. What gives with Taim's comment, more power than you can imagine. What would make Taim say that - surely he would not know any more about it that Rand. But then, we see Osan'gar's reaction on book 8, utter surprise. Surely it would spark similar thoughts with Demandred, and we have a perfect match in these two quotes, almost two good to be true coupled with part 5.

7: Contempt for Modern Aes Sedai

Book 7, "Blades"
Flinn knows what he is about. Already he can do things you Aes Sedai never dreamed of.
c.f. with Taim's general contempt and lack of fear of Aes Sedai. "Kneel... or you will be knelt" sums up his attitude to Aes Sedai nicely. It's no surprise that we see such as obvious reflection in Dashan'gar.

8: Weirdly Suggestive Writing

Book 8, "A Time for Iron"
It was something of a shock when Dashiva awkwardly booted his slab-sided mount ahead of the rest.... It was more than something of a shock when he seized saidin as soon as he reached Rand and wove a barrier around them against eavesdropping.... "There's something askew with saidin here, something amiss," Dashiva said, sounding not at all vague. In fact, he sounded...precise. And testy. A teacher lecturing a particularly dense pupil.
This comes completely out of the blue for Dashiva, who had ordinarily been, as Rand describes, very vague. Note that he was shocked when this happened (at what was happening to saidin) and so he forgets to keep his guard down. However, Jordan goes more further than this, really pushing us on, in the last 2 lines there. Just like the Age of Legends Aginor, a renouned scientest, bookworm and lecturer, as we know from book 9.

This is exactly the kind of point which most critics of Taimandred have the most bones to pick with. But the fact that Dashan'gar is true clearly shows that Jordan does in fact employ this technique. Compare with the following passage:

Book 6, "New Arrivals"
Bashere took advantage of the silence. "You say you're Mazrim Taim?" He sounded doubtful, and Rand looked at him in confusion. Was this Taim or not? Only a madman would claim that name if it was not his.

[a few pages later] If Bashere's men and the Aiel decided to kill Taim, the man would have a hard time escaping that courtyard however he channeled, unless Rand helped him. Yet Taim paid the soldiers and the Maidens no more outward attention than he did the collonades' columns or the paving stones beneath his boots. Bravery, real or feigned, or something else? A kind of madness?

Please note here, I'm not worried about the fact the Bashere seems doubtful! The important part is that which I have italicised. In the space of two or three pages the same thing is repeated, Rand wondering whether he is mad. Both times, you'll note, he is commenting on Taim's daring; not caring about the danger he is in, or (assuming it was an imposter) being bold enough to claim Taim's name.

So what? Well, this in only the second chapter after the prologue, where Demandred announced his bold, daring plan to his fellow conspirators. I argue that Jordan is using the same suggestive technique, because it is very similar to its occurence in Dashan'gar. Demandred, surely would seem almost mad to attempt to imposter Taim, and Jordan is trying to make that connection to us, just as connecting Dashiva to a teacher.

The End