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Ditto Mega Janeway rant Wednesday, 11-Aug-1999 18:36:42
Archivist says- Well here's number 2 and we start off not talking about P/T at all and then it turns into, well, our favourite subject. That's all I'm going to say – I give you Brighteyes. MEGA JANEWAY RANT!! Sunday, 08-Aug-1999 16:24:57 195.99.59.251 writes: What the hell is the matter with Janeway this year? I'm mean if your name's not Seven of Nine or Naomi Wildman Captain Kate doesn't want to know. It's no secret that I don't like Chuckles but even I've noticed (of the few season 5 episodes I seen, cause I live in the UK) how horrible she's being too him. What happened to the Captain Kate that was stuck on that planet with him. And what about B'Elanna, I'm mean come on, you don't mess with a half-Klingon, Captain Kate may be the Captain but I'm extremely surprised B'Elanna hasn't decked her one yet. In Extreme Risk, she poked her nose where it wasn't wanted (okay B'Elanna could have killed her self but that's not the point.) And in the one where that bug attaches it's self to B'Elanna, she'd just gotten out of sickbay and It would be pretty obvious she'd be pretty annoyed, Tom and the Captain disobeying her wishes and the whole Marquis thing. Janeway didn't have to go in and have a go at her while she was recovering! And then when she demoted Tom! (Which I still disagree with so if anyone starts I will RANT big time) and chucked him into the brig for 30 days, oh yeah and trying to kill him in the Delta Flyer to try and stop him. Now seriously if I were B'Elanna I would defiantly have gone beserc by now. She's really picking on her, directly and non directly. (Besides, DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GO WITH OUT TOM PARIS FOR 30 DAYS? 'There's no one who doesn't know when you're having intimate relations. Have I made my point?) And then there's Tom. Her so called PERSONAL RECLEMATION PROJECT! It's coming across to me that she doesn't give damn about him, unless he steps out of line and then she comes down on him like he's an Amada or Borg Cubes. And as for the P/T relationship, does Janeway care about her crew?? The only time she bothers about their relationship is when they're showing her up in public because they have a better sex life than she does!!! Okay hang on almost finished! What I'm trying to say is I want the Janeway of season3-4 back, she was nicer then and she actually cared for all of her crew not just Seven of Nine, Naomi Wildman and Harry to an extent. Okay that's it I've done but please don't start on the Paris demotion subject because I don't want to have to hurt people over it :) Anyway Rant over :) Brighteyes Re: MEGA JANEWAY RANT!! Sunday, 08-Aug-1999 16:41:48 208.251.249.124 writes: I agree wholeheartedly!!! What about that comment to Harry during Disease about "I would expect this from Tom Paris but not from you." OUCH!!!!! How could she be so deliberately cruel? I mean come on, Tom has been in a loving committed relationship for quite some time(it's hard to tell how long, the show is ambiguous about that) and would never do anything like that. She seems to think that she knows how everything should be, and if you disagree that's too damn bad. I'll grant you this is necessary in command situations, but not in personal matters. When she ordered B'elanna to forgive her in nothing human that was too much-she had better stop being mega-bitch this year or I'm going to space her myself!!!!! And BTW-how could anyone disagree with you about tom's demotion. I understand that he had to be punished, but it was not just, it was a prodigious payment for a forgivable crime. Just the brig would have been too much, but the combination of the 2-aaaaargh!!!! Avillion Re: Re: Exactly Avillion Sunday, 08-Aug-1999 17:43:01 195.99.44.246 writes: COMRADE!!!! Exactly, thank u, thank u, someone with taste :) !!!! Brighteyes Ooh the Paris demotion thing, shall I tempt fate? Sunday, 08-Aug-1999 17:11:18 195.92.194.21 writes: Ooh, I like all this ranting, lots of fun. I myself am a Janeway fan, or to say that more accurately I *was* a Janeway fan. Being a fellow Brit I can discuss with you what we've seen so far. Janeway has practically been schizophrenic this year. From the sensual Janeway of Counterpoint and Timeless to the mega bitch of Thirty Days, Latent Image (she's even mean to Neelix in BoC) and then after all that she goes careering off into BORG space to go and get Seven. All the time she's ignoring her lapdog, her moral compass, her reclamation project and her sparky Klingon engineer. Janeway thought she was doing Torres a favour in Extreme Risk - Old Cap'n Kate would have subtly mentioned to Chuckles that something may be up and not gone ranting into sickbay making a bigger mess LIKE current Janeway. I am not a big ER fan (that's the Voy ep, I LOVE the medical drama) as the P/T was handled dismally but from Night onwards Janeway has just been horrible. Ok, now I was angry after Tom became an Ensign but I remember reading Jim Wright talking about it and he made some valid points about how Tom was having more and more and more lee-way and that Janeway's demotion was more about "tough-love" than actual disciplinary measures. J/P has always been an interesting relationship since Caretaker and the scene where Action Kate threatens to kill him if he does anything to her crew and then when she gives him his field commission. I'm still in love with Thirty Days the ep though, it had possibly the BEST ever Voy teaser and gave us real Tom angst (Lark, when she gets back can tell you about my love of angst) and I really enjoyed it. It had action and decent P/T and even THE DELANEY SISTERS!! Dramatically the demotion and everything worked really well. Brighteyes, I await your reply to that with interest. Anyway on with Janeway. In "Nothing Human" I LOVE the scene where Tom and Chakotay were arguing over B'elanna's life. It was a classic scene from another good ep. But we lost the B'elanna/Janeway hate that should have come from that episode. Latent Image presents us with the worst depiction of Janeway. She's just unbearable and even though at the end she tries to help, it really isn't a fun episode Janeway wise. In fact that ep isn't really fun at all but anyhoo. I thought "edgier" Janeway would be good when I saw Night but it has just been a complete disaster. I hope they really do something with her next season that shows her overcoming all this "survivors guilt" that she has going. I DON'T want soap opera Voy and the feminist 'I can do anything' Janeway was a tad unbelievable esp in Seasons 1 and 2 but she got a lot better in seasons 3 and 4. But I want Janeway to start caring about her crew again. All of them - not just those who seem to need it. She seems to have lost her people skills and although she hasn't lost any of her determination she's doesn't inspire as well as she used to. She seems to just be 'doing the job' rather than caring about it. But then the poor woman hasn't had a holiday for the past 5 years and that's why I believe the character change is believable but bloody annoying. As for the Chakotay and Janeway I think she's just annoyed with him and AOTW all the time. I mean this guy even dates 47s - that's just plain weird!! I'd like to see more of the Janeway in Counterpoint - that episode showed a really 3D person not your run of the mill "Woman in menopause" and I think THAT is how Braga sees Janeway. I knew the character was going to loose something with Taylor's departure but I didn't know how much. I mean she might have been Taylor's Mary Sue but at least you cared about her. I've enjoyed Season 5 but the Janeway characterisation has been poor at best, at times I've even cared about Chuckles more (and coming from me that's saying a lot). My fave Janeway moment is "Message in a Bottle" when the doc comes back and Janeway says something like "Well, 60,000 lightyears seems like a lot closer to home today." and she's got a tear in her eye. That is the Janeway we all know and love. I WANT HER BACK!! Kat Re: Ooh the Paris demotion thing, shall I tempt fate? DON'T Sunday, 08-Aug-1999 17:57:57 195.99.44.246 writes: Okay let's look at the Paris demotion LOGICALLY !!! We have people like Chuckles, Tuvok, Harry and B'Elanna who all break the rules sometimes far worse than Tom ever did and they don't even get a slap on the wrist for it. I mean after all Tom if Janeway's PERSONAL RECLAMTION PROJECT and she has extremley high expectations of him, she's for years wanted him to believe in something and when he does she nails him for it. I remember I read a fan fic a while ago and the person wrote Chakotay saying something like. 'Because you think of him as a son you come down on him harder than anyone else.' And if you think about it Tom may be having more leeway this year but he's just making up for the seasons that he's followed the rules letter by letter. How many times has he saved Janeway's life and the lives of the crew? He went undercover for her in Investigations and blew all the hard earned respect that he's worked so hard for since coming aboard. And that comment in Disease (which I haven't seen yet but I've read the reviews) where she slags off Tom to Harry was just soo uncalled for. Tom is Harry's role model he admitted it himself in season 3 what was it called ? Anyway Harry gets off lightly compared top Tom. I think that aside from B'Elanna who doesn't count because she's involved with him, the only person who is acting like a parent to Tom Paris is the Doctor! They both look out for each other. Tom helps the Doc and the Doc sticks up for Tom, all the ribbing aside! And Tuvok's coming close too. But anyway! I don't think Tom deserved to be demoted. If they ever get back to the Alpha Quadrant I think Janeway deserves to be dressed down big time by the Admirals for all the time's she's gone off on her own and broke the Prime Directive because it's standing in the way of something SHE believes in. Anyway the Janeway thing... I want the Janeway from season 3-4 and I want to see a massive confrontation between B'Elanna and Janeway. Brighteyes I'll try and pull myself out of a big hole :-) Sunday, 08-Aug-1999 18:36:37 195.92.194.13 writes: I think the reason Janeway came down hard on Tom was because as much as she likes him, he needed to learn that there will be consequences to his actions. Yes, he found himself a cause and it was a good cause. But, it wasn't HIS cause much in the same way that the Maquis weren't his cause either and you know all the trouble that that got him into. Tom has a bit of a destructive personality with low self esteem that he hides with jokes and a 'devil may-care attitude' that has actually been to less of an extent recently. I think Janeway feels that a cause is the last thing he needs. He has a lot of emotional baggage and needs to sort himself out first. Janeway thought that she could TRUST Tom. She pulled him out of jail and she came to like him and guide him. She trusted him to allow him to play off his own attitude in Investigations. When he disobeyed a direct order I think it hurt Janeway more than anything else. She thought SHE'D turned him into the perfect officer. So, consequently she reacted badly or even over reacted because she was upset but wouldn't admit it. Much the same way that in Prey Janeway did the same to Seven. Some would argue that Seven got away lightly compared to Tom and considering the gravity of their offences BUT Janeway treats Seven more patronisingly than Tom. I think she views Seven as a 'daughter' figure and Tom more as a younger brother. But that's just my opinion. Janeway doesn't need people going against her. She's under enough pressure as it is. Basically Janeway was pissed off and so over-reacted but it's in her nature to do that sort of thing. But anyway I read an essay recently on Tom and it was quite interesting. It said that Tom was the 'counselor' of the ship but there is no-one there to counsel him. He's a great listener and he looks out for his friends. Like with Neelix in Fair Trade (when Neelix thinks he's useless) The Doc in Real life (where doc's holographic family dies) and Tuvok in Gravity. But Tom never has anyone to go to. Even in Hunters he doesn't ask for B'elanna's help only offers support when she tells him about the maquis. He really has become very independent and insular. Although I think the Doc looks out for him more than Tom realises. But then taking Tom's exemplary track record into account you'd think she'd either demote him or chuck him in the brig not the double whammy. Now, I'm partially defending Janeway's decision because it made for good dramatic story telling but the demotion hasn't done anything. TPTB could have got the same quality ep without the demotion - just the Thirty Days in the brig. I thought TPTB would use the demotion to greaten the rift between Janeway and Paris in later episodes but they failed to use that opportunity. So, ok I've tried to suss out WHY Janeway threw Tom in the brig and demoted him. I liked the brig idea from a dramatical point of view and the demotion could have been good but was wasted. As for the dressing down of Janeway by HQ. I think that would be great. Actually I'm currently working on a fanfic that has part of that in it. It's my first foray into something totally P/T less though so I'm having a bit of a tough time. But when Voyager gets home the big people at the Fleet HQ are less than happy with her methods. Well anyway I'll share it when I'm finished and you'll understand then. BTW the Disease line was not only cruel but inaccurate. Chakotay is the one with all the women. We'll be able to see it for ourselves tomorrow though. I agree that that *was* totally out of order and just plain mean. Oh and Brighteyes - check your mail on the 11th. I'm just going to be cryptic from now on... Kat Re: I'll try and pull myself out of a big hole :-) Sunday, 08-Aug-1999 19:06:34 195.99.60.160 writes: Okay, I think you're right about the fact that Tom listens to everyone else's problems but no one listens to his and I think you right about Janeway wanting Tom to be the perfect Officer. But, if you think about it, he never will, as far as people are concerned no matter how well Tom does, people will always think of him as a Paris and will always compare him to his family and his father. Urm, the fact that Tom is always supporting B'Elanna is something I think she's come to take for granted, he's always there for her, when and if she needs him, but in truth when is she there for him? I can partially understand how he was feeling in Vis A Vis because like I said it doesn't matter what he does it won't change anything. I think the only people to really support Tom have been the Doc and Tuvok to an extent. I think the Doctor has come to understand Tom better than the rest of the crew, including B'Elanna, he knows when he's feeling down and when he needs encouragement and he knows when Tom's hurting. As for his demotion (again) I'd love to see a scene with Tom and Janeway discussing it and Tom telling her that no matter what he does he won't be able to live up to her standards. And I'd like to see B'Elanna actually stick up for Tom for once. I can actually understand why he hasn't told her he loves her yet, if you think about it it's a one way relationship. Brighteyes Brighteyes, I think you've hit on something... Sunday, 08-Aug-1999 19:40:57 195.92.194.21 writes: Janeway does put a lot of expectation on Tom that he just *isn't* ever going to live up to. It's probably a higher expectation than she places on most of her crew. It would most definitely be a great scene if Tom told Janeway that. It would really make her re-evaluate her relationship with him and how she should treat him. I think she expects him to be something he's not. As for the Doctor. He does look out for Tom but in a way that he doesn't really expect anything back in return. It's a good friendship and I think Tuvok does the same. Although Tuvok will tease him a little (If Vulcan's can tease) he is far more willing to listen to Tom's opinion on something than say Harry or Chakotay who he tends to dismiss. It's quite depressing actually that when Tom gets home his life is going to be really hard. Far more hard than anyone else on the crew. Cos the last time the AQ saw Tom Paris he was a womanising ex-con with a good, Star Fleet up-bringing. He's changed a lot now but the attitudes of the people he left behind haven't and he's going to have to start all over again. As for P/T - I think although she hates the way he fusses she has come to expect him to be there for her. But in ER she pushed him out of her life because she didn't feel anything for him anymore. I think she didn't go to Tom in that ep because it would have been a very selfish action. She wasn't going to give anything back to him. So, she had to go to someone less involved. All of Season 5 we have seen the one way relationship with all of it coming from Tom. I know she's depressed and everything and he must care deeply about her to stay with her through the hard times. So I think Tom does love B'elanna. But she's so indifferent towards him and has only ever *once* told him how she feels that he may feel if he tells her (the three magic words) then she won't reciprocate. As for DOH I don't think he was sure how he felt, he felt pressured into it. But, Tom has shown commitment to B'elanna and has been there for her. Tom's issues with his father have taught him that it's horrible to love someone and to realise that they don't love you back. It has less to do with commitment issues because I think he is committed to her and it's more about he's scared how she'll react. He doesn't need someone denting his self-esteem. So, until B'elanna starts to believe in Tom (as she sort-of-did in Thirty Days - Did I mention I liked that ep?) and stands up for him and trusts him with *her* problems and is willing to help him through his own. Then and only then will Tom say "I love you" to B'elanna. He needs to know that she'll be there for him long-enough so that those words will actually mean something. In a big about turn I think he's actually worried about *her* commitment problems. So, what we want is Tom and B'elanna about to die and Tom tells B'elanna that he loves her and B'elanna smiles and reciprocates. Cue: smoochies and a Voyager rescue. But that's only what I'd do if I was one of those elusive TPTBs. :-) Thanks Brighteyes, you've really got the old grey matter ticking over! Kat Re: Brighteyes, I think you've hit on something... Monday, 09-Aug-1999 01:47:23 208.251.249.82 writes: While these are valid arguments I can't say that I agree. I don't believe that the P/T relationship is one-sided, I think that there have been few opportunities to show B'Elanna caring for Tom due to the nature of the episodes. In 30 days she supported him fully, but there were few other chances to show her doing so. I think that you have 2 individuals who have been hurt numerous times in the past and are both afraid to share themselves with anyone. Over the past 5 years they have both been breaking down the walls they had built around themselves, but this is a long and arduous project. They trust each other, and only each other, with the deepest corners of their hearts, but both are still afraid. I think that after Janeway's reaction to them in Scientific Method the 2 have been very careful not to show any public displays, and I think for these 2 most anything is considered a public display. They are both intensely private people, and the reason that we don't see B'Elanna supporting Tom is that they are too quiet about their relationship. I'm not sure if that mini rant made sense, but it's awfully late and I'm tired:-) Avillion Re: Re: Brighteyes, I think you've hit on something... Monday, 09-Aug-1999 09:47:14 12.78.117.130 writes: I don't think the PT relationship is one sided at all. They both seem to do little things for each other. I think they have a well-balanced relationship. (It could be better though, I'd love more PT episodes) AS for the big D (demotion) I think Tom deserved some kind of punishment, but solitary confinement AND demotion to ensign is extremely harsh. In 30 days I was very disappointed in the amount of PT. I mean if you boyfriend was in jail wouldn't you send him a letter or something? And one last rant, Janeway is going DOWN! Dana Re: Re: Re: Brighteyes, I think you've hit on something... Monday, 09-Aug-1999 12:59:27 208.251.249.36 writes: I doubt that B'elanna had the opportunity to visit tom/send him letters. As he was in solitary Janeway probably wouldn't allow these luxuries. While after much pleading I'm sure she was willing to let Harry see Tom, she was too busy being mega-bitch extraordinaire to allow B'elanna that same chance, after all, she would have known how important it was to them to see each other. Avillion Re: Re: Re: Re: Janeway's going down Monday, 09-Aug-1999 14:23:45 195.99.43.37 writes: Okay so most of us agree that Janeway's being a mega bitch and that Tom didn't deserve to get demoted. And okay maybe the p/t relationship isn't al one sided but all we ever get to see is Tom supporting B'Elanna (aside from 30 days, and I don't think she visited him because Janeway didn't let her) But anyway I still don't think Tom's demotion was fair, and that Janeway's being a mega bitch and B'Elanna needs to show Tom some affection before he'll say those words we all wanna hear. Brighteyes Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Janeway's going down Monday, 09-Aug-1999 14:27:47 195.92.197.37 writes: Yeah but I still maintain that that *incarceration* was good for Tom's character. But Mama Kate has turned into the mega BITCH from hell! Kat Yet again I'll try and defend my position... Monday, 09-Aug-1999 14:25:46 195.92.197.37 writes: Poor old Janeway. Obviously the whole Mark thing just put her against romance. As for the whole one sided relationship thing. Oh dear, nobody seems to really agree with me here BUT I was talking about the way the relationship was shown. I agree Avillion that they are both intensely private people who really keep themselves to themselves but on the roving security camera that we see everything through (and yes, I know it's a TV show) we never see anything showing them coming closer together on a deeper level. Many P/T fans have often asked why Tom hasn't told B'elanna that he loves her on screen. Just to let TPTB off for this enormous over-sight I tried to think my way around it and was quite happy with the outcome. I DO think that Tom loves B'elanna and I think that she loves him too. BUT the relationship that we've seen of late has been terribly one sided. Here's a theory - Season 1 "Faces" and "The Cloud" - Tom shows more interest in B'elanna than she does in him. Season 2 B'elanna shows more interest in Tom - "Dreadnaut" Season 3 Tom does all the chasing with the notable exception of "Blood Fever" Season 4 It's B'elanna all the way again - DOH Season 5 And we're back to Tom with Gravity and the like. So, following that TPTB couldn't be bothered to think so we'll see more of B'elanna going after Tom in Season 6. Balance!! All I want is balance! Anyway enough of the silliness. Back to the semi-serious matter at hand. I want the P/T that we had in Thirty Days back. I like to feel that they're getting something more from the relationship than just good sex. I read an interview with Roxann Dawson about P/T - As you can tell I was really excited when she read that. And she said she had *asked* the producers for more depth between the characters. Now the writers toned down P/T in season 5 because a majority of the fans said it was juvenile. I'm sure they wouldn't mind if we had some really good character development running off from the relationship in Series 6. It's not as though the characters are disliked - they are both very popular with the fans. So, in conclusion, because the characters could really benefit from a deeper relationship that's how I want it in the show. I'm not saying I wouldn't mind another "Scientific Method" or "Blood Fever" but I'd far prefer another "Hunters" of "Thirty Days." Anyway so with toned down P/T the writers turned it into Tom angst and it really gave the impression that he was the only one who cared anymore and you could kind of understand in a roundabout way why he hadn't told B'elanna he loved her yet. But then this is all speculation, I don't think the writers have a clue why either. As my Mum said to me today on the phone. Excerpt from Hughes phone call 9/8/99 Mum: So, are you going to watch Voyager tonight? Kat: Yup. Harry gets an STD. Mum: Oh really? That's sounds interesting. Does he get it from a Delaney sister. Kat : No, an alien Mum: (sighs) Harry gets to have all the sex. Kat: Nah, that's Chakotay. Mum: But just look at Tom and B'elanna. Aren't they meant to be having a passionate affair? When was the last time we saw them kiss? Sorry, I just think that was an incredibly cool thing of my Mum to say. BTW Mum was the person who got me into Trek. Watch out, I'll start going on about my first TNG experience in a minute. I'm getting all nostalgic... Kat P/T FOREVER!!!!!!!! THERE STILL TOGETHER......AND HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Monday, 09-Aug-1999 16:28:23 207.181.100.224 writes: I just think that they should show more of the fun loving couple that has been shown in season 5 despite what you all think (and I know some of you haven't seen everything) it turned out ok. As for the one sided-ness it was for like three episodes and for those of you who have seen them there were eps. Like STWOM and 11:59 where they had no mush for those who complain but a normal relationship. In STWOM there was the whole scene at the beginning; they were eating in the mess-hall and Seven was watching them. B'Elanna walked over and grabbed the padd which had recorded there life which involved there love life and even though they had fought they made up (alot! If you remember Seven's explanation on how she new they made up! lol) Anyway Tom stopped her but despite all that B'Elanna was sticking up for her relationship! And hello? In 11:59 the party and the whole hug! Even though it was just a little hug....more of a hold it was in a photo which means they are ok with a little public knowledge and even though B'Elanna pulled away she wasn't mad and she even laughed! And got on with everything...Besides a picture will last forever! And they smiled and looked very happy *together*!!!!! What about Warhead....the p/t wasn't direct... B'Elanna wasn't even there but they were celebrating their anniversary and it had to be 'perfect'! So despite the horrible lack of P/T in the beginning they brought the relationship back to normal and since it was at the end of the season there's no need to believe the trend will end! At the beginning everyone seemed all depressed but in the end P/T were together even flirty in Equinox and aside from their early problems they ended up happy! So you see I'm even making myself better...its just they have been showing the depressing eps lately but whenever you feel down remember STWOM, 11:59 and Warhead!(an ep where even B'Elanna seemed back to normal...well except for the crazy Doc) Despite TPTB major depression in the fall and winter, come spring the flowers are out and P/T came back!!!!! See! Look how long that was I just better not get started on Captain PMS anytime soon!!! BTW when is she actually going to congratulate p/t from the way she has acted it almost would appear she doesn't care at all!! One last thing the picture? In 11:59 is like a family picture for them to all share and everyone is smiling and p/t are together.....so whenever you feel like p/t is in a horrible one way lifeless slump remember the end of season 5 and the happier eps!!! And for those of you who have yet to see those eps. Have faith....p/t does come out on top!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) Keep Smiling!!!!!!!!! LOL Thanks LOL Monday, 09-Aug-1999 16:43:05 195.92.197.37 writes: Yup, thanks LOL. Personally I CANNOT wait for those episodes but I was just going on what I'd seen so far and how those episodes made me feel. But fear not fellow fans I still believe that P/T rules and will await STWOM, 11.59 and Warhead with anticipation. So, after some over-analysing there I have still got faith. Hmmmm, still it was fun to rant! Kat Re: P/T ! My turn :) Monday, 09-Aug-1999 16:47:02 195.99.46.195 writes: Okay now its my turn, okay so I haven't seen all the season 5 eps yet but i've just seen Disease and that comment from Janeway about 'treating all her officers equally?!? Where did that one come from? The only people she treats with any respect are Chakotay (cause she wants to get it on) and Tuvok because they're close friends!! And how come Harry only got a permanent thingy put in his file when he disobeyed the Captain's direct orders loads of times and Tom got demoted ?!? NOT FAIR Anyway P/T! Okay so in STWOM (which I haven't seen yet) B'Elanna sticks up for their relationship and the one with the photo, she doesn't mind being hugged by Tom, but how come every other time she makes a big fuss about it ? If she's that cool about their relationship in public, why don't the writers give us some nice scenes between them, such as at a party or something! Okay end of rant! For now. Oh and Kat! Tell ur mum she's cool :)) Brighteyes Re: Re: P/T ! My turn :) Monday, 09-Aug-1999 17:07:25 207.181.100.224 writes: I know the writers need a swift kick in the a$$ but I wanna look at the bright-side. I mean just cause they don't make out in public doesn't mean they're uncomfortable. Janeway is a powerful influence in their lives and I bet her reprimand still makes them stop themselves in public. But I just think they're acting like senior officers and doing what they think is right...They hopefully get to do things like party together in their off time and its not either character's fault. I just think it's the stupid writers fault for not giving them much. Something I noticed in season 5 was the lack of resolution at the ends of episodes. Usually something will happen in a ep and at the end all is resolved but because of there relationship phobia they have sort of left us hanging and that is why we are left with this whole. "are they mad?" "don't they love each other" hence the abundance of fanfic trying to explain the gaping holes they leave at the end of eps. They *need* to smarten up and stop being so scared to do anything remotely adventurous instead of the "well it worked for TNG or TOS, or DS9 we better stick to all that!" LOL Re: Re: Re: P/T ! My turn :) Monday, 09-Aug-1999 17:15:54 195.99.48.131 writes: Okay everyone's probably right and every one is entitled to their own opinion, and mine is: I think we should stop this rant cause it's getting out of hand :) Lets all just hope that Janeway comes to her senses in season 6 and stops being a bitch and that the writers give P/T something creative to do, so we don't have to keep finishing the story for them :)) Brighteyes Good Idea!! So this is the last one!!! But still tell me if you like my idea! I was just going to say you were right when the absolute most perfect scene came to mind so PLEASE READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Monday, 09-Aug-1999 17:47:32 207.181.100.224 writes: :) Keep Positive, I'm sure if Janeway continues to be such a bitch B'Elanna will punch her sooner or later!....and I hope we get to see that..... I could just see it now. Janeway enters in super bitch mode at a senior staff meeting. Everyone is up and edgy cause she's pissed at Tom so she excuses everyone we don't like or isn't important to the scene. (Seven, Neelix, Maybe the Doc) So it's down to harry B'Elanna and Tom against Tuvok Chuckles (although we could get rid of him maybe Tuvok too...they may try to stop B'Elanna) Yeah so It's Janeway Harry Tom and B'Elanna, Janeway is in super bitch mode B'Elanna is doing her fair share of bitchin back. Tom is hurt by Janeway's accusations Harry is speechless and B'Elanna hits her right in the face!!!! She then turns to Tom grabs his hand and leads him out the door!!!!! Harry can't help but laugh when they get out in to the hall before he reports to the crew who had been standing by the door eavesdropping that the Captain may need a hand while B'Elanna proceeds to sort of bring Tom's face to hers and kisses him square on the lips (and yes we're talking tongues!!!) in front of the entire senior staff who then go to see if the Captain is all right!!! Later when they both go for a breather Tom comments on how B'Elanna's sticking up for him was really sweet and how much he appreciated her support but before he can babble for too long she says that maybe that'll teach Janeway for messing with her Man! Which promotes a wonderful laugh from Tom and the most amazing, loving smile. But before this hallmark moment can continue everyone floods into the hall and Chuckles says that Janeway wants to see Tom—alone. Tom goes in and B'Elanna is kind of held back by chuckles who is giving her a look like "bad girl...don't mess with this anymore" to which she gives a look back like "I'll mess as much as I want" though she doesn't go in. Then the Doctor comments that that was one hell of a bruise on Captain Bitch. Inside Janeway's only comment is "You have one hell of a girlfriend, Mr. Paris, who seems to be the most logical person on board....talking never worked to get to me maybe I just needed someone to yell back at me and give me a good hit to knock some sense into me. I'm sorry." (what she did...eh I don't know something bitchy no doubt) "Dismissed" When he enters the hall he cracks a joke to get all the eyes off him "You've got one hell of an arm B'Elanna" everyone laughs and goes their own way (Chuckles probably goes to see his precious Captain but who cares?) B'Elanna and Tom walk down the corridor away from the others hand in hand discussing the events of the day..... Gosh I just loved that whole Idea if I made it longer and wrote a whole fanfic around it do you think you would like it? I hope so I just think Its such a fun cool idea and leaves plenty of room for a whole lot of kisses and thank yous from our favourite couple!!!!!!!!!! :) LOL Why the Voy crew need to let their hair down and PARTY!! Monday, 09-Aug-1999 17:29:10 195.92.197.37 writes: If Voyager's ratings are ever going to improve in the U.S (BTW, Voyager a top rated show on Sky in the U.K) it needs to be more adventurous. Whereas with season 4 we could expect closure with P/T in season 5 we have been left hanging. Even non P/T eps have left us hanging and you always feel that the episodes need far more tying up. Although I felt that Disease was tied up nicely. (Sorry, but I've got that ep on my mind) But Voyager has been soooooooooooooooooo depressing recently. B'elanna's depressed, Janeway's depressed, Tom's in the brig, Harry's lovesick, The Doc's mad, Seven is being kidnapped and bribed and Tuvok is trying desperately not to have any emotions. Oh yeah and Chakotay - well he just gets to have sex a lot and bat his big brown eyes at Capt P.M.S. So what does Dr Hughes prescribe? More parties!! In season 3 we saw them relaxed and sort of enjoying the fact that they were out in the DQ lightyears from anywhere. Even if they are only little scenes - it would still allow for a lot of character interaction. Happier episodes we've had have some form of celebration. STWOM has a party. 11:59 doesn't but it has a kind of get together at the end and Warhead has the anniversary. So, basically I think Voyager is often at its funniest and most interesting when they throw in a party. They have a luau in "Alter ego" the one where Harry falls in love with the hologram and we get some great P/T there "Smashing dress." I agree the Janeway reprimand does stop them somewhat from making their relationship public and now that Janeway has a huge downer on romance it doesn't look like we'll get any open affection scenes. That still doesn't mean we can't have any quarters scenes does it??? But this is Braga we're talking about here people. His attitude is "Continuity? Pah!" So, he might have them kissing in public. P.S Brighteyes - I then proceeded to tell my Mum how cool she was and what we were discussing on the board. Kat That's all well and good but did you like my scenario???EVERYONE READ ME I'M DIEING FOR ATTENTION!!!!!!!!PLEASE I'M BEGGING YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Monday, 09-Aug-1999 18:09:49 207.181.100.224 writes: Yeah!!!!!! What the title says!!! DID you like it? I worked so very hard....should I take the silence to mean it was no good??:( Look after all my giddyiness you made me do a frowny face:( make me smile!!!!! sniff sniff if anyone actually liked my little scenario please comment...I feel so hurt by Kat's neglecting me sniff sniff.........I'm still giddy but less there has been a dramatic decrease in my giddyness!:? LOL I know what Voyager needs Monday, 09-Aug-1999 18:47:20 195.99.48.131 writes: I know what Voyager needs :))) A NEW CAPTAIN :)))) THEY COULD PUT JANEWAY INTO STORAGE (ALONG WITH CHUCKLES TO KEEP HER COMPANY)UNTIL SHE'S FINISHED THE MENOPAUSE AND THEN WHEN SHE COMES BACK SHE WON'T BE SOO BITCH :)) OKAY SO YEAH LOL I LOVE THE SCENE THING AND I ACTUALLY THINK YOU SHOULS MAKE IT INTO A FAN FIC :)) Brighteyes OOOh I agree!! Monday, 09-Aug-1999 18:49:23 195.92.197.37 writes: Let's have a maquis mutiny. But I used to be a Janeway fan. Not anymore!!! Kat Re: OOOh I agree!! Tuesday, 10-Aug-1999 13:15:58 62.6.12.141 writes: Yeah a Marquis mutinay :)) But not lead by Chuckles :(( Chuckles can ger thrown out the airlock :) Brighteyes Kat |
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