Rick: No, It's great...I actually just spoke to my friend Kurt (Kurt Levee) and I think Kurt had dealings with you in the past.
Rob: Yeah. I spoke with Kurt, probably about 2 years ago when I first started the website. I approached him about being a part of it, but he's been really busy over the past couple of years so we haven't had a chance to do that yet.
Rick: He's been through quite a lot of changes in his life, but he was just saying that he would be really interested in doing something again with you guys if you'd like that.
Rob: Oh, definitely.
Rick: He was very positive about you guys and the work that you were doing. So I was even more excited to talk to you, you know?
Rob: So, what is the band up to at the moment? I hear that you're working on a new album?
Rick: Actually, it's all finished. Well, technically, we're a 70's band and we kind of grew up listening to all that wonderful "Glam Rock" during the early 70's. So what we've done is we've put together a collection of songs that really inspired all of us as kids, and you know, music that we grew up listening to; from Sweet, to David Bowie, The Kinks...I mean, all these just great songs that really lead us to where we are now and the kind of music that we play.
Rob: So that's kind of like what Rush just did with their last album; they put together an album of songs that they grew up playing, so that's basically the same idea.
Rick: Yeah...you know what, I didn't know about that.
Rob: Yeah, it came out sometime last year, I believe.
Rick: Oh wow...that's cool. I mean we'd already had, "No Matter What" as a single, which was kind of a taste of the covers record...and we were doing a song called "Rock On", an old classic by David Essex that we were playing live also. So, a lot of people that have been to the concerts have already got a taste of what this record is. The record itself is going to be called "Yeah"...and I think it's due to be released sometime I think around about the middle of May.
Rob: Oh, well that's great; we'll look forward to that.
Rick: So we're going to be out on tour supporting that starting sometime towards the end of June.
Rob: Well, actually we have a question from someone I believe you're aware of....Andrew Hewitt? He's a drummer with Cerebral Palsy from Australia. He was actually Raven Drum's Spirit of the Month in April 2004.
Rick: Oh yeah!... I remember that...that was a fantastic story.
Rob: Yeah, he was the second disabled drummer put on to the website. Well, anyway, he wants to know when you guys are going to be coming back to Australia. He said that you haven't been there in over 13 years?
Rick: Well, the thing was, we've actually been through a long drawn out situation, to make a long story short. We went through a long drawn out situation with our old management company and it seems as though, a lot of the territories that we built up over years, they weren't really promoting the idea of going back to some of those territories. So, we're with a new management company now called HK and what we're doing is building up those territories again. So, more than likely he'll be seeing us in the not too distant future.
Rob: Well he'll be glad to hear that. Well, seeing as you've been with the band for...it's almost 30 years now right?
Rick: Oh man, has it been that long?
Rob: ...1978 I think?
Rick: Yeah...around about November 1978, right about my 15th birthday.
Rob: Going back to that, what was your wanting to first playing and be in a band...your motivation for doing that?
Rick: Um...individuality? Being able to do something that nobody else could do...and also just to play music; the music, you know, it just really grabbed me.
Rob: So it wasn't more for, you know, some people get into it for fame...it was just strictly for the music for you?
Rick: Oh, I didn't know what fame was, you know? Well I guess I did to a certain degree, I mean, the first time I saw Mark Bolan with T-Rex, that was like...I wanted to be him, so I guess I was coming from that angle also. But really, waking up on a Sunday morning and listening to the Salvation Army Band, the marching band, going down the street and listening to the big bass drum and I'd put my clothes on, I'd run out and I'd literally march down the street with them next to the guy with the big drum. That was like...it just touched me in a really deep way, and I couldn't believe that someone could play in the street. I thought that kind of thing should be illegal...it was so loud, you know?...And then I set my drums up in the backyard and realized that it really was illegal. But that was really the motivation. Really the feeling of the drums and what it did to me and then popular music at that time.
Rob: What did you feel that role was as a drummer within the band?
Rick: I felt like I was the foundation. I always felt as though I was the foundation and that I could punctuate the songs in a way that supported the vocals in the best way possible, and really punctuated all the other instruments that were going on in the best way possible also.
Rob: You had a really unique playing style back then, at least I think so; You played with traditional grip, which wasn't something seen being used by a lot of rock drummers back then. How did that start?
Rick: Well a drum teacher that I was working with...actually my first drum teacher, a guy called Kenny Slade, and I guess he had a stint playing with Joe Cocker, and I used to go to this little music store called Musical Sounds in Sheffield, just out of my hometown. He got me going into this dingy room upstairs and showed me the basics in reading and I guess I just picked it up from him. I just saw the way that he was holding his sticks and I just picked it up...it just felt natural to me.
Rob: That's something that I always remember, I mean I was really young when you guys first came out, so I'd see only see the reruns of the videos on MTV, but I thought that was something really unique, so that got my attention towards you as a drummer.
Rick: That's really cool that you picked up on that.
Rob: Do you feel that after your accident, while how you physically played changed, that your style as a drummer did as well? Could go back and listen to drum parts that you wrote after the accident and notice a big difference between those and something that you think you may have written before you lost your arm?
Rick: I think that's a good point also... I started to use drum machines to write parts and interestingly enough, I think what comes out of your head is something completely different to what comes out of your heart. So, it was an interesting combination because what I'd do in the early days when I was still pretty ill, I would write the parts using drum machines and then I would go back and play over the top of what I just programmed, and what you think you play and what you play can sometimes be completely different. But I think the combination of the two really made me a better drummer because I could think the parts. I could actually write them down and have more time to, remember I said before about punctuating the song? I had more time to go back and really punctuate the songs in a way that was more calculated.
Rob: So would you say it was more of a combination between what you could physically do and what your brain wanted you to do?
Rick: Yeah, it was a combination of what I could think that I wanted to play and actually either write that down or program into a drum machine and then what I actually played when I sat down behind the drum kit would reflect how I felt and what came through me from my heart.
Rob: How did you start to even play again? At what point did you realize, "Hey, I might be able to do this again"?
Rick: When I came around after they...you know I lost my arm and they tried to reattach the whole thing again and before I knew anything it became infected and they had to remove the thing...I didn't know anything about it...I was in Twilight Zone. But when I finally came around, I broke my right arm really badly. I broke the shoulder ball off the top and I had a piece of foam down at the bottom of the bed that helped me to push myself up because I couldn't push myself up using my hand. I just started tapping on this piece of foam and realizing that I could play pretty basic rhythms, admittedly, but I could actually play and keep time. So, my brother was looking after me at the time; he was spending a lot of time at the hospital and sleeping in a chair...that whole bit. So he was always asking if he could do anything for me or get anything to make things more comfortable, so I took him up on it and said "Could you bring my stereo system in?" So he brought the stereo system into the room and I said "...and bring all my old records", you know, all the things I grew up listening to, and if he could set it up in the room for me, that would be great. So he brought the whole thing back and I started tapping my feet again realized that I could actually do this. I could perform basic rhythms and I could at least play pretty much all the main kick and snare parts. Then I grabbed a stick and realized that I could actually still keep time with my right hand and play kick and snare with right foot, left foot...and that was really the beginning of it.
Then an amazing thing happens at a certain point, and I'm sure a lot of the people that you've dealt with through your site will probably confirm this, but the information is in your brain and very quickly your brain is able to rewire itself and send that information to different places. I think it's called necessity...it's something that if you're really determined enough, it just kinda of happens.
Rob: Did you have any idea that you would be playing with electronic pedals or how did you come about that, to use trigger pedals to trigger the snare drum and other notes?
Rick: A friend of mine came to visit me in the hospital shortly after the story I just mentioned and saw what I was doing with my feet and said "I think we can help you". It just so happened that this guy was heavily into electronics and while I was in the hospital he came up with a prototype pedal: Just a simple trigger pedal with a foot plate and a spring and you know, it was great...it worked. It was something that I thought I could use. I think that the day I had the pin from my right shoulder removed...I came home and it was about 4 or 5 days and then I had to go get this pin removed. So as soon as I got this pin removed I went to his store, this little electronic store...this guy called Pete Hartley and he hooked this pedal up for me and I could play it. It was really cool; all the stuff I had been learning while I was in my bed with nothing to do, I realized that I could actually play all these rhythms that I grew up listening to.
Rob: Now, how long did it take you to really adapt to that and get to the point where it felt like it was second nature?
Rick: Hmm...that's a good question because I think the learning curve continued. You know, I learned new ways of doing older things. Some of the songs that I used to play with two arms, all of a sudden I find it easier, easier, and easier to play those songs. But, yeah, from the point of feeling comfortable I guess it took me a good 5 or 6 months.
Rob: Well that's actually really amazing when you consider that before you, I don't believe anyone was actually doing anything like that. So you really didn't have much to base your new playing on...you pretty much had to do everything from scratch.
Rick: You know, that's true. It's wonderful...this girl that was a huge fan of the band...she wasn't very old...probably about 7 or 8 years old, and she remembered me saying in an interview one time that I couldn't refer to the book of one-armed drummers. Then later on, she made up this book and it was all pictures of me, performing all kinds of different things, using one arm. So, that was a nice little story. But, yeah, it was difficult in those days, there weren't really many people that I could talk to. It was just a bit of a lonely journey, discovering all these things and ways that I could do them. But, people were very helpful, wherever they could be of service, they would help me as much as they could.
Rob: Were there any exercises or patterns that you worked on, or still work on now that help you play in this manner?
Rick: Yeah, really just working on, where I can't play things cleanly with my left foot, what I'll do is I'll add extra beats with my left hand. So, I just substitute beats so that I can play what say, in the past would be a consecutive number of beats on one drum. Now what I'll do is substitute beats within that measure with say, a kick drum, or with an extra beat on the snare drum, maybe adding double strokes on the hi-hat.
Rob: That's a good point, that even though you may not be able to add a snare hit there or a tom hit where you might want it, that as long as the count and basic feel stays the same, it doesn't really change it a whole lot.
Rick: Yeah, I mean, you listen to a piece of music, and you listen to the big picture...not focusing too heavily on detail. You can create something that is an accurate rendition without it being verbatim...without it being exactly as it was, and that's really how I approach the song these days; Either cover songs or songs I played in the past with two arms...I'll play a game of substituting beats.
Rob: One thing I've always wondered while listening to your music is that, I realized that you were still using your hi-hat foot and still using open hi-hat notes, and I just couldn't process how you were actually doing that. How do you still incorporate things like that into your playing?
Rick: On stuff like that, what I do is, I either do it electronically, so that I don't have to physically open and close. What I will do is use a sample that was the right "openness" for the tempo of the song. So instead of having to physically do it, I would literally hit a pad and it would just go (mimics open hi-hat sound) and then it would perform that better than I could.
Rob: Now that you're using a more acoustic setup, do you now only use electronic pedals or do you still have pads on your kit to do things like that?
Rick: It changes, I mean, last night for instance, I was playing with a friend of mine and that was purely all acoustic...a two hi-hats setup: one fixed hat, and another hi-hat in the conventional sense, a foot control hi-hat; then a ride cymbal, kick and snare...and that was basically the setup. But then when I go out on tour with Def Leppard I'll come up with a hybrid of electronics of acoustics and the two things work really well together.
Rob: I've read that you also use a sample of your actual acoustic snare with your trigger pedal.
Rick: I've done that in the past. The whole of the album "Slang", that was all done that way...half of "X" was done that way. Basically what I'll do is, in the morning when I go into play in the studio, I'll sample the snare drum, and then throw that on one of the pedals and then play a similar sounding snare drum with my left foot that I'm playing with my right hand. The only difference is, the right snare drum is real and the left foot snare drum is a sample of the real drum that I'm playing.
Rob: How do you handle that in a live situation. Is the snare triggered so that you can match up the same sound with your foot as with your hand?
Rick: That's slightly different...I tend to be very adaptable and try all kinds of different things. I'm not very pressed with things today...if it sounds cool, I'll use it. But live, there are only a couple of songs where I actually use JUST an acoustic snare drum and then other songs, what I'll do is, I'll trigger from the acoustic snare drum as well.
Rob: Why did you make the change to a more acoustic setup? Also, did you ever have problems that came up while using an electronic kit, like misfires and things like that?
Rick: Yeah, but I mean, the technology gets better, better, and better. But the acoustic drums...remember the story I told you about walking down the street with the marching band? That's where it all came from, it was the physical feeling of the drum. It was a complex combination of different things that made me passionate about wanting to play, but really it was sitting in a room or walking down the street with a real drum and the vibrations that it produced. So, it's great being able to play electronics, they're very convenient in a lot of ways; you can do a lot of things that you can't do physically on a real drum. But at the end of the day, it's nice to get back to my roots.
Rob: Definitely. That's where you started, so that's where you'd like to end up.
Rick: Yeah.
Rob: Would you say that you position your drums and cymbals in a specific spot that will make it easier for you to play?
Rick: Well it's all very close and if you look at the website, you can get an idea of how the kit is setup, and that may be a nice way to explain to people, if you want to sort of want to put that in as an example. (See Picture)
Rob: I've always been an advocate of setting up ergonomically. Have you always felt that way?
Rick: Yeah, I was always a stickler for detail.
Rob: Yeah, because it does help you play better, and especially if you have some limitation or hurdle to overcome it's best that you don't have to move anymore than you have to or reach any farther...why make it harder on yourself?
Rick: Exactly, yeah...and physically and everything, it makes it easier on your body.
Rob: I've read also that you like to use the heel-toe technique that Steve Gadd uses.
Rick: Well I use it more on the kick drum, more than the hi-hat. My left foot is coming along, but it's no where near as advanced as my right foot, and it's almost like, you imagine, on the downbeat, coming down with your heel, and then on the upbeat you come up with more toward your toes. It's more like tap dancing, like "ba-da ba-da ba-da", you know what I mean?
Rob: I've personally used that technique myself, the only problem is that when it came to doing 16th notes and going back and forth, I have a hard time going from the toe back down to the heel. What advice or exercises would you give anyone who is trying to learn this technique?
Rick: Everything needs to be started slowly...I think that's the best advice anyone ever gave me. Don't go straight into it...it's not just memory, it's muscle memory also. So just start slow, and that's a good way to really, really, establish the muscle memory also.
Rob: Have you always played using that technique?
Rick: It's just something that came naturally. It just kinda came and somebody said "Wow, that's something I've seen Steve Gadd do" and I was like "Oh Cool, I'm in good company".
Rob: So it's not something that you started using after your accident in order to help you do more with your feet?
Rick: No, I was just very fortunate that I fell into doing that.
Rob: You also play barefoot, and you have for a long time, why did you start doing that?
Rick: Um...for no other reason than falling out of bed in the morning as a kid, and being completely naked; I mean that was basically the only reason. It wasn't that I enjoyed being naked, it's just that I was lazy, and I didn't bother to put anything on in terms of socks or anything. I just started to get used to the feeling of just playing the drums that way and the fact that I felt so connected to the drums doing it that way.
Rob: Yeah it's more natural, I guess you could say.
Rick: Sure, and I can't imagine playing guitar with gloves on.
Rob: Getting away from drumming for a second, I was always wondering how being someone with one arm, how that affected you in your daily life; Things that you had to try and overcome or learn how to do differently.
Rick: Well I didn't really discover that until I got back to the home where I really grew up, and then things became really uncomfortable, because you know, I had been used to doing everything with two arms for so long and now all of a sudden I was thrown into this situation of living in a two armed world with only one arm, and that was really uncomfortable. I mean, the only really sort of obvious thing is like tying shoelaces and that sort of thing. But I was really fortunate, I met this guy, and he had one arm and he showed me a couple of things that I could do to get by and then I met a guy with one arm who showed me how to drive a stick shift car. So, there were all these sort of angels around me at the time, that sort of gave me clues as to how I could make things easier for myself. I think the other thing is, which I don't always do, is try to give myself a little bit more time to do things, as opposed to rushing.
Rob: That whole experience obviously changed you as a person, but did you feel that maybe you were rushing a little bit more before your accident and now this happened to force you to slow down?
Rick: Yeah for sure, it stopped me in my tracks, it really slowed me down and I think that was part of the reason why I had the accident in the first place. It was the fact that I was going too quick and you know, symbolically the car accident, but in life.
Rob: So you don't feel like if you could go back and change everything and not have had the accident, that you would?
Rick: For sure, I think that if the car accident hadn't happened, and I'm not saying that I know this, but I'm saying that there is a possibility that something far worse could have happened.
Rob: Do you feel like you were headed in a direction that you were almost saved from a little bit?
Rick: I think so...yeah, that's a good way to put it.
Rob: Obviously though, as I said, it did change you as a person and you're pretty spiritual now, is that where the Raven Drum Foundation came in?
Rick: Well yeah, the experience that I went through with the accident really showed me parts of myself that I had never visited before.
Rob: What can you tell us about the foundation, what you're all about etc..
Rick: We've been going for quite a few years now; we started in 2001 and it's just going from strength to strength. More and more people are really resonating with our ideas and the programs that we do.
Rob: For those who don't know, what sort of programs do you do?
Rick: One of the ones that I really loved, one of the ones that I started is working with a boy's penitentiary, a place called Camp Kilpatrick. I kept it going for as long as I could and then when things got really busy with the band, I had to hand it over to another teacher. Now there are a couple of teachers that go out there and work along side Raven Drum and they continue doing incredible work out there. Really instilling a sense of community with the boys, because a lot of the boys that we're working with are really related to gang violence and it's a mess, you know? When they come in there, they're really given a chance to turn their lives around and sometimes that time inside is really an opportunity for them to really look at what's going on in their lives and turn things around and Raven Drum tries to facilitate that. In fact, we do facilitate that and we're seeing success stories every day.
Rob: Do you have any future plans or aspirations for the foundation that you'd like to see it do or do you feel like so far you're achieving everything you hoped with it?
Rick: We're achieving everything that we hoped....Getting people to dig a little deeper into their pockets is a difficult one, but I guess as time goes on and more and more people start to realize the work that we're doing, I think that's going to change. I mean, it's changing now and we're seeing that we're able to get grants and companies involved that in the past wouldn't have gotten involved, so we're very fortunate...very fortunate.
Rob: Are there are any particular moments or experiences that you've had with running the foundation that you think stand out more than others?
Rick: Well the boy's camp is one of them; just seeing how you can make a difference in someone's life, just through the experience of drumming and how drumming can really give people al sense of community. To see that first hand and then for me to have the experience of speaking with some of these boys after they've come out and listen to their stories and realize that the experience that they've had of working with Raven Drum is one that went towards giving them hope on the outside.
Rob: A lot of people who have submitted questions for me to ask want to know just, what music and bands are you into at the moment?
Rick: Man, what can I say? Music is music...whatever mood your in. That's why god created iTunes, you know what I mean? You know, I don't want to sound like a journalist and pigeon hole music because it's one of those things, I enjoy all music. It's just really down to what occasion and how you feel.
Rob: Have you ever thought of doing an instructional DVD? Handidrummed has tried to have lessons on the website and I've been thinking of doing some more things in relation to videos and I know Andrew Hewitt will be contributing some. A lot of people have told me that they wished there were more instructional DVD's just geared toward the disabled drummer.
Rick: You know, we've talked about it a lot; doing something special like that with Raven Drum. But it's just a matter of getting the time. I have so many other commitments and responsibilities. I don't really have to time to do all the things I want to do sometimes.
Rob: Yeah, because I think, if you ever did have the time, just something that basically is more about you as a drummer that really illustrates your playing style and how you've adapted the unfortunate situation into something positive. Also, how you've used this new technology in your setup to help you play again. I think that's something people would like to know about more, in a visual aspect.
Rick: Yeah, and like I said, I would dearly love to do that...I guess cloning could come in quite handy. I just need more of me, you know? It's a great idea and I would love to do it, it's just really the time factor.
Rob: Going back to the band for a second, and this is probably an obvious question, but a lot of people wanted me to ask this: If the band hadn't been so big at the time of your accident, do you think you would've had the drive to continue playing?
Rick: I don't think the drive to go on came from anything to do with the band, I think that it's an inner strength that you tap into and it was important for my own development to do it. The support coming from the outside was great, but really the decision to go on has to be from the individual.
Rob: What other advice would you give to other disabled drummers?
Rick: Really, look at yourself as a unique individual and really, we all have something really special to offer. It's not about if you can do something exactly the same as someone else. Sometimes, the appeal to a person's musicality is really in the individuality and it's really that which I feel is the most important thing that we as an individual can offer to the collective. There are always going to be other musicians that are looking for something unique in a drummer; and that is the one thing that I think somebody that is challenged in any way and is looking for a direction, instead of looking at things to copy, just stay in that place of being unique.
Rob: I'm sure we're all curious, have you had time to check out the website for yourself? A lot of people are wondering what you think of it.
Rick: Oh it's great, I mean, I really like what you guys are doing. I mean, there are not too many sites out there that offer that kind of service and I think it's good that people have somewhere to go where they can explore themselves.
Rob: Well that's great. You know, we really appreciate your support of it, and again, I just want to thank you for taking the time out of your schedule to do this interview.
Rick: No problem. Just going back to what I was saying before, I think the most important thing is that people play from the heart. If you play from the heart than it's a pure expression.
Copyright 2004-2006 Rob Richard
