This interview was first published by artist group N55, Denmark and is used here with permission.
Copyright Sture Johannesson Đ 1977, 2002.
Sture Johannesson: Have you been to Berlin?
JR: Yeah, I went there for a holiday, for a week, just to see what it was like. I had to go there, I had to see the wall...and it scared me. Those Russians, they terrified me. Horrible. I have written a song about it. It goes Holidays In The Sun.
SJ: Are you familiar with the West German political scene, the anarchist of Bader-Meinhof?
JR: Oh, Bader Meinhof, yes. I donīt know what they are into. I never bothered to find out. Because itīs like English papers didnīt print it. They started the stories but they never finished them. And I donīt have any other way of finding out. Unless I go to socialist meetings which Iīm not going to.
SJ: There have been written some glimpses about..
JR: She killed people, didnīt she? I bet, didnīt they?
SJ: Yes, they made attacks, it was in solidarity with the Vietnam people. They made attacks on the American headquarters.
JR: Yeah, but they killed people and thatīs no way to get your point across. Because they killed innocent people. They must have.
SJ: In a way you could say that. Because they were military people...
Unidentified Swede: They did a thing in Stockholm with the West German embassy, blew up the whole place.
SJ: I was at a literary meeting in West Germany and it was about literature that reflects changes in society and so is it with your texts and your songs...is it a reflection of the society and the political scene that you find?
JR: Well, it must be, because Iīm part of the society, you know.
SJ: but...
JR: I donīt know.... I avoid all that political stuff because itīs too heavy. You will get the flu off me, yes I got the flu and still I carry on like a brave young soldier.
SJ: I would like if you could make a short story, if you could tell a little about your background, it has been written some glimpses in the papers.
JR: Thereīs been a lot of rubbish written about us but.... You know like they say weīre like a record company owned band and they tell us what to do. Thatīs not true. We are total English working class. None of us have had what you could call an education. Because in Britain you donīt get one unless you got rich parents or know the right people. Weīre the first rock movement, since I suppose the 50īs, not the 60īs. 60īs had it very easy. It was like swinging London, you know, money was all over the place. Weīre much much closer to early rocknīroll. Thatīs where our energy comes from. Itīs the same kind of energy, except that our songs arenīt about long tall Sally. They are about being bored to death, nothing to, do nowhere to go after 11oīclock when the pubīs closed. In England they donīt like you to be entertained, because it means your brain would begin to think for itself and this they donīt like. Thatīs why they are trying to stamp out punk movement. Because itīs a whole generation thinking about everything.
SJ: Itīs a fantastic concept you have in your artwork. You have renewed the rock music; you have put it back to cellar clubs like this one.
JR: This is what we are about.
SJ: Yes, you have given it a provocative meaning to rock again.
JR: A lot of people donīt like us for that either. But I think thatīs because they donīt understand. They donīt bother. I think they should. We are about making people think for themselves once again - if they ever did. Just get up and do it. If you feel like you want to be in the band, you should. When we started, it was impossible in England to play in small clubs. Rock music had died and we started it up again.
SJ: But now your latest record is played on the radio stations.
JR: Not in England. No they wonīt touch it.
SJ: So itīs the group more than the record they ban?
JR: It is what we stand for, or what they think we stand for... yes, and..the next question.
SJ: In the 60ī s there was a slogan: ''when the mood of the music changes, the walls of the cities shakes''. Do you think that with your music you can change society or are you just commenting?
JR: (sighing) Change society, yeah thatīs difficult. You see, Iīm in a rockband, Iīm not a politician. What I am about itīs just letting people live the life they lead. Donīt judge people by their clothes but by what they do...
SJ: I read a quotation from you ''itīs not what you wear, itīs what you are that counts'', thatīs why I put my suit and tie on when I went to visit you today.
JR: Well, it is. I never judge people ever by their clothes. Our audiences in England are widely different. We get all of them, the lot, every kind of person. And thatīs the way it should be. Itīs not just about people who come in a safety pin jackets and stuff. Itīs not just what I miss for everyone, it is just to make people happy about music, itīs to be excited to sing in a live band, I mean it is an exiting thing, it is a good thing, itīs fresh. It is real, it doesnīt like come straight out of a studio and like you never see the people that play on the records. Thatīs horrible, you should. You should be given the chance. I hope we do give them a chance.
SJ: Yes, you have renewed this rock music to run again.
JR: And people say that we are negative. I think we are totally positive. Thereīs nothing negative in what we are doing. It is negative if they not accept us without even hearing us. You know in Sweden thereīs a lot of the gangs...I donīt know what you call them...they go around with their flashy cars.
SJ: Raggare.
JR: Apparently they donīt like us. But they've never seen us live, I doubt they have even heard the record. So what are they basing their opinions on? I think itīs very silly of them. I think they should come and see us...if they donīt like us, well, too bad .
US: It is because they think youīre.... That punk is imitating them in an ironically way.
JR: Itīs very silly.
US: Thatīs how they feel.
JR: But what are they doing? They do nothing. They drive around in cars forever and ever and thatīs getting them nowhere.
SJ: Have you seen them?
JR: Yes.
They are against themselves basically.
US: Yes, against everybody in society.
JR: Thatīs silly. Because theyīve got nothing to replace it with. They have no amusement...of their own. And if they want to drive around in their cars the rest of their lives, wonderful...
US: No, but they really like the old rock music but..
JR: So do I.
US: But they never understood that you are continuing that.
JR: We are just a different version of rockīn roll.
I donīt have a university degree. I think itīs very stupid of them. And if anything, they have got a better education than I ever had....the thing is, I question what I do, what I like, which I think everyone should do. I donīt accept things blindly...anyway Iīm bored with that subject, next one.
US: Thatīs the thing you tried today, the red thing, the wine, thatīs what they started to drink, Kir, instead of that.
JR: Thatīs quite nice, itīs got a nice taste.
US: Itīs a substitute. You see thatīs why everyone is getting drunk on it. You see, regularly red or white wine is quite hard to drink alone but thatīs very easy to drink.
JR: It tastes like blackcurrant juice. It tastes like fruit juice.
US: Itīs really strong.
JR: They just walk the streets. Hellīs Angels, we have no trouble from.
SJ: Your music is an art concept?
JR: I donīt know. I hate art. Itīs too institutionalized. Too much big business.
SJ: Yes, it is.
JR: It shouldnīt be.
SJ: We have a very small gallery in our town Malmo, opposite Copenhagen and we want to show ... the process behind the art, not the product.
JR: Itīs the same with us. Itīs not planned what we do. It comes natural; itīs what we feel. Thatīs the way it should be. Not all artists painted the way they felt, they didnīt do it just for money, some of them did, people like Van Gogh and alike...
SJ: Naturally, you have a concept that has influenced not only in music but also in attitudes...
JR: When I was in school they banned me from the art classes for what I used to paint, and for the way I used to paint.
SJ: Would you like to exhibit your paintings in our art gallery?
JR: No, I have no interest. No, I just do it for my own amusement.
SJ: Our idea was that we saw a man, a photographer in Helsingborg, when we went there and heard your concert. And we thought that this photographer was going with you all the tour. And our idea was to make a documentation of this Scandinavian tour that youīre making, because I think it must take some months before people realize how unique this thing is.
JR: Yeah, but thatīs always the way it is, isnīt it? I donīt know. I donīt know, people will appreciate this probably when weīre dead. When the plane crashes on the way back to England or something.
SJ: It will just take a couple of months before people start to realize.
JR: Yeah. Well, you canīt expect everything to be easy. You will always have to fight for what you believe in.
SJ: Iīve seen your portrait in Times, the magazine... thereīs a color picture of you in Time magazine.
JR: Whatīs that, is it English?
SJ: No, itīs American, Time international.
JR: No, I havenīt seen it.
SJ: Itīs on the front page. A special article on punk rock.
JR: Have you got a picture of it? Have you got one with you?
SJ: I didnīt take one with me. I thought you had seen it already.
JR: No.
SJ: It was published two weeks ago, I think, before you released your third single.
JR: No, I havenīt seen it.
SJ: I read about...
JR: I donīt read much press anymore, because most of it is rubbish and I just say let the music speak for itself and I hope you can hear the words.
SJ: Yes, but the establishment is watching you after only two single records.
JR: Yes, In England itīs very heavy for us. I cannot walk the streets without the police start hustling me. Even leaving England, they check our passports, leaving the country. Which is unheard of.
US: Did it happen in Sweden, that they checked the passport when you were leaving?
JR: No, I mean, like, they kept us waiting.
US: But the reason why they checked your passports here was to check that you have a passport.
JR: Well, they wanted to know, our names and addresses before we left and when we were coming back, you know, obviously so they can be ready for us.
SJ: But you have experienced a more positive attitude from the public and the people in Sweden than you have in England?
JR: No. In England our audiences are very big. We could sell out easy ten fifteen thousand every town. But we donīt want to play huge big cinemas and concert halls, because, the people at the back just donīt feel anything. I mean, whenever I used to go to big concerts I just didnīt feel anything. Itīs not on. I much rather play 20 nights a row than a huge auditorium. The only problem with that is my voice wouldnīt be able to take it. Already itīs gone, can you tell? From playing every night. Thatīs alright. I donīt mind. I donīt mind wrecking it. If itīs for a good cause I will do it. You only live once .
SJ: What are you going to do when youīre coming back to London again?
JR: (sighs)
SJ: What are your plans?
JR: God knows...(laughs) I donīt know. London...We are gonna rehearse a bit, we are gonna make a film. A proper feature film, since weīre not allowed to play in England ... we are gonna make a proper movie and have us playing live on the film and show around cinemas to people that canīt see us normally. I hope it takes off.
SJ: Are you going to produce the film yourself?
JR: Yes and ... Russ Meyer, have you ever heard of him? Well, heīs a loony.
We only like people working with us who have a sense of fun. Some of the songs are really serious, but they have a moment of fun at the same time ... because music is for fun, not sitting down and being miserable. Fun, itīs rockīn roll...itīs...get up and dance. Thatīs what I want. And as soon as we get to be boring out farts, then we quit, I quit, anyway. I mean Iīve done that very clear. I donīt want to be like Mick Jagger. You know the untouchable, who wouldnīt talk to you unless he has forty bodyguards around him. This I donīt like. I think itīs unnecessary and stupid. And, what creates a lot of trouble. We have to break it all down, bring it back to reality. Just make people happy. Iīm no superstar, I never will be, Iīm just like anybody else.
SJ: Youīre a superstar in your own way...
JR: I hope people understand that...it wonīt effect my lifestyle. I donīt want to clothe myself in loads of money and hide away, thatīs not me. I couldnīt live like that; Iīd gotten completely insane from the bottom of it. If I ever did have a lot of money, the first thing I would do is that I would buy probably a recording studio and let new bands recording there free, so they could hear themselves when they start. That is a good thing to do, I donīt see why the Stones donīt do that. They have the money - Led Zeppelin and all those bands, What do they do with their money? They donīt help new bands. They should. Thatīs music, thatīs what it is supposed to be all about. ...
It was like having a new family. They couldnīt appreciate or understand, because it was kids doing something for themselves. This always frightens any kind of government because they think...oh look, they are doing that for themselves, What are they really up to? What do they want?
US: You mean, instead of being commercialized something...
JR: We are totally anti commercial. When we had a number one single,that wasnīt even played on the radio and advertised very little. ...
SJ: It was only sold in the small underground.
JR: Thatīs where they sell most of our records, we sell hundreds of thousands but the charts werenīt acknowledged...
They sell a bit of reggae, a bit punk a bit rockīn roll, a bit of everything, music is music. Itīs only certain idiots who like separating it up to different categories that destroy it. Music is music either you like or you donīt. You shouldnīt have categorizations or limitations; you should be there.
SJ: But you have managed to provoke the society and knock them off at the same time, your record are the best sellers in England.
JR: Mm... Which is good... because times they are a changing. And letīs face it, they had to.
SJ: Very few artists can manage to do this today, to provoke the society...
JR: I think it has to do because they donīt try. We donīt set out to provoke society, we set out to do what we want to do and say what we say without people interfering, you should be allowed free speech. After all England claim itīs democratic. I think we have proved that wrong, it is not. It is a very very controlled state.
SJ: Would you say itīs a fascist regime?
JR: Yes, I would actually, yes. I really believe that. There are so many police on the street and gangs and kids that are...
Sture Johannesson hung out with the band for two days. He recorded this interview at Barbarella's and took several rolls of film. Most of his material has never been published. He now lives in Malmo, Sweden and is currently working on a book. I would like to thank him for letting me use this interview.
The rest of the SUMMER OF HATE fanzine has a lot more SEX PISTOLS articles, reviews, links and news. And tons of other Punk Rock stuff too!
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