Voting: Reasoning & Tactics
The Taoist "True man"
Voting: Reasoning & Tactics
(Shann)Dan recently asked me if I'm voting for Gore or Nader, this seemed kinda interesting, so here are my thoughts on the subject:
My aunt recently explained to me that she is voting for Nader despite his not having a chance of winning because she feels that even w/o her vote that Bush will lose in her state. By voting for Nader she feels she can at least let the democrats know that there is support more left-wing ideals. My concern is that if the democrats become more left-wing (yeah, right) they will not have the support of the majority of voters and I feel that a moderate is better than a conservative.
another interesting point, my aunt's husband is registered republican (though he's not one) so he can vote for the least of the evils in the primaries.
so people, does one vote matter? only close elections or in certain states? is voting for what is unpopular throwing your vote away? (I know Alan, Lisa and I are all thinking of the Simposons where Aliens out to enslave earth replace the Dem. and Repub. canidates and one of them gets elected because "its a 2 party system")
who's voting, for who and why?
(Kat)In the primaries I registered republican at the door & voted against Bush
(for McMain). You're allowed to do that in MA. Immediately after you vote,
you ask that you be unregistered, and it's cool. McCain ended up winning
the MA primary, not that it did us anti-Bush folk any good.
In the last two elections, my mother voted for that big-ears guy,
whatzisname, because in both cases she thought the major party candidates
were scum. Not that she would've liked it if the guy she voted for won, but
that never would have happened. Go figure.
I haven't decided yet whether I should vote in MA or DC for the nat'l
election. I think it should be DC since MA traditionally votes more liberal
and DC is a swing "state" -- but then, DC has like 1 vote in the electoral
college, so it doesn't really matter anyway. What's up with the electoral
college? It really doesn't make any sense ... National elections are
actually kind of daunting when you think about them. Say you live in
Montana, and you vote democrat, which is futile because republicans take the
state by a landslide, but that doesn't matter either, because Montana
doesn't have enough population to make much of a difference in the final
outcome no matter what. Or say you live in California, which has like a
zillion electoral points, and it's a really close race. Half the zillion
are conceded to the party that won the state, even if it only won by like
2%. It doesn't seem fair. I'm sure voting technology has progressed to the
point at which it's possible to tally individual votes ...
But if I vote in DC I'm definitely voting for Gore, 'cause he needs the
help. And if I vote in MA -- I'm probably voting for Gore too. Because
he's not Bush and it's possible for him to win.
(Dan)Here's something that get's me riled up: when people are like "Democrats and Republicans are the same so it doesn't matter who you vote for, so we might as well go with Nader." Whatever! Democrats and Republicans are the same? Yeah if you kinda ignore basic civil rights, economic relief for the poor, and a FUNDAMENTAL ECONOMIC PHILOSOPHY BY WHICH THE FATE OF ALL FORMS OF SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE DECIDED. The only similarity is their style of politics, which, i admit, sucks - but which, i also admit, is the product of the one political environment in which they operate. Like it or not, Gore has had to deal with asshole republicans for years, and I can understand (although not entirely accept) the fact that he has had to adopt some of their tactics (ie: the sleezy way he sabatoged Bradley in Iowa - i miss bradley).
(Joseph) there i was again being browbeat by my faux liberal/moderate
friend. he was giving me an upbraiding for daring to concede
nader's appeal and ruminating on whether i should cast my vote
for him instead of socialist candidate david mcreynolds. trust
me: i've already heard the talking head rigmarole: "you're stealing
vote from gore; you're putting bush in the white house."
my friend, a staunch democrat and queer, was not letting
clinton's mealy-mouthed "support" of homosexuals cloud his
bold election 2000 desire to see gore move into the white house.
he was fighting me on this one, but most of his back-up data
came from cnn and npr agit-prop.
yes, i've heard the insults. yes, i read dan savage's nader-baiting.
yes, i'm aware i'm american indian and i find nader's running-mate
an appealing choice, yes, i'm aware that most media outlets portray
nader rallies as something akin to a shitload of lost phish concert-goers
who've stumbled into a well-lit arena, half-blind from the halogen
lights and killer ganja.
it's all bullshit, i say. cast your vote for who you think forwards
your own personal conviction. screw this "lesser of two evils"
nonsense--it gets us nowhere but here all over again. is bush
gonna exercise a rollback policy? doubtful. is gore going to take
the office, drop the populist rhetoric and jump straight back into
bed with soft money? you'd better fucking believe it.
(Kat) The fact is, though, Dan Savage is right. The only candidates who have the
slightest chance of winning this election are Gore & Bush. If Gore doesn't
get the votes, Bush *will* become pres., and that scares me like little else
can. I'm casting a vote to keep Bush out of office. Maybe that's not the
way democracy should work, maybe I'll have to take a deep breath before
checking the box by Gore's name, but voting for someone who can't win won't
keep our government out of the hands of a dangerous idiot. This is shaping up to be a real close race, so why are the talking heads
predicting the lowest voter turnout in 80 years or somesuch? That doesn't
make sense to me.
(Dan)i appreciate the fact that you know how to write sentences. i also
appreciate the fact that you are actually thinking about this election.
gonna exercise a rollback policy? doubtful."
you must be joking. of course he will. I'm sick and tired of people being
all "there's no difference between democrats or republicans." There IS! The
democratic party is NOT, i repeat, is NOT broken beyond repair. It's hardly
even broken. Yes, money is involved. Until campaign finance reform happens,
it HAS to be involved for them to defeat the republicans. The other option
is having only multi-millionaires run for public office, which is a
ridiculous idea. Gore is not a good candidate. He is not a good politician.
But, when he's not at a podium, and when he's not writing speeches, he makes
pretty damn good, realistic policy. He says he's against gay marriage, but
that's only because it's IMPOSSIBLE to be elected president if you say that
you support it. When the issues are so vital to our own lives (abortion, gay
rights, etc), we can't afford to be wishy washy. This is not the time for
blind philosophy. Even a hardcore progressive like ani difranco said at a
concert on monday, "It's ok to pull that lever against bush, as long as it's
in the spirit of solidarity."
Things are not so terrible. This is not the time to give up on the
Democratic Party. It will work, because it has to. The other option is the
disenfranchisement of the sexual minority and the destruction of a woman's
ownership of her body.
That's a much worse prospect than a slightly commercial, yet intrinsically
good man in the oval office.
The Taoist "True man"
(Shann)discussion: is the taoist "true-man" best embodied by a)the dali lama b) pre-fall adam or c)george w bush?
(Morticia)The "true-man" is not troubled by the world and the Dali Lama is. The mythological Adam was not troubled because his world (Eden) had no troubles. I'd say Bush.
What's with all these idiots celebrating halloween on the WEEKEND?!
Halloween is TUESDAY!!! TUESDAY!!! Morons.
Halloween is everyday for some people... if people decide to dress up on more than 1 day a year, cool, one less day where I'm singled out for wearing what I do. I 'd like to encourage the average person to use their imagination on more than 1 day a year
(Dan)i changed my mind - i agree with you.
(Kat)observation for the day: high school really wasn't that bad, you know? I
just watched part of an anime series called "His & Her Circumstances" and it
makes me miss Newton South. And even RM!
(Danny)As a highschool student i would have to disagree with high school being good.
I freeking hate high school, im a junior, and i find it more and more
diffficult to get along every day. You cant tell any one that there an
asshole because youll have to fear of getting shot, or mamed, EVERY SINGLE
TEACHER FROM HERE TO THE END OF THE COUNTRY, has to be, "politically correct"
in order to keep from getting the pants sued off of them. Teahcers cant even
say the word god, or call a black kid black, but "African American" whithout
being culturally biast. Its freekin stupid, high school is a waste of time.
(Shann)For me, it depended totally upon who I was with. Violence and PCness and the rest are a factor where-ever you go, and everyone knows that just because public school is not a fascist institution, it doesn't mean the teachers & administrators don't want it to be. Its pretty fucking close sometimes. But at least (some of) it was better than middle school or elementary. I was in more physical danger then, and no one was PC so there I was I bi-sexual, bi-racial, pagan female...
Its not "high school" in general, its society, and who you're with.
(Dan)i liked high school. parts of it. there were smarter people there than
there are here. it was more diverse too. but i think that was just our high
In regards to Danny political correctness and the separation of
church and state are FAR from the most problematic things in high school.
want me to think of a problem with high school? okay, let me think for a
(Daniela)If you ask me, school in general is a conspiracy against human kind. No one ever said that education was essential to our lives except those that thought it necessary for us to live our lives competing against one another. And why exactly are we competing for? A good job? A good life? What exactly does that all mean anyway? We are living our lives they way it was portrayed for us, not the way it was really meant to be. We are living in some one else's world, not our own. If it was our own, would we be killing it? School is a just another way to brainwash us into soldiers fighting against each other, and as we are doing it, we are watching everything die, but are unaware of it because of our manipulated minds. This was my thought throughout my high school years. As I look back, I realize that it wasn't so great. You had to keep you eyes to yourself, because if you so much as glanced wrongly at someone (usually the same sex), they would immediately assume that you want to start something. We has bomb threats at least once or twice a month, gang fights, and cops constantly there. My last year, we moved and I graduated in a different high school. The change was dramatic! I went from a ghetto school, to prep society, and to be totally honest, I really don't know which was worse. But I hate school all together! I don't hate learning, I just hate that they have a need to constantly feed you lies, and you have no choice but to take it all in, because that's how this world was designed. I could go on forever, but I think I'll just leave it at that for now.
(Dan)um, i think i appreciate where you're coming from, but i also think you need
to take a few steps back. you say you don't hate learning. therefore,
"school," as a concept is not a conspiracy against human kind. School, just
like any institution, or any group of people for that matter, is only as good
as the people involved. So if teachers suck, and your classmates suck, odds
are your school experience will suck too. So if those people do indeed suck,
it's your responsibility to make the best of it. I know, I know, no one
wants to hear this Polyanna bullshit, but if you love learning, then that's
your only real option.
As far as teaching you lies, the education system in America has weeded out
SO many horrible lies in the past few decades, and I must say, if anything is
getting better in schools, it's the disintegration of those lies. Granted,
history classes still teach you some pretty biased stuff, but it's getting
better. Considering where we came from (segregation,
Genesis-as-a-history-text, the Lord's Prayer after the Pledge of Allegiance),
and where we are (a universally biased history curriculum, the threat of more
religion in schools, the Pledge of Allegiance), I'm pretty optimistic about
That's what I think. It's fun to be an ex-radical :)
(Daniela)I see where you're coming from, and don't get me wrong, I didn't mean that it all together sucks, as I may have insinuated. My enviornment might have "sucked", but I did make the most of it. I drowned myself inside my mind, and began to live in a made up world, which has saved me from insanity (being a vegan has built a lot of hatred towards humanity, and a lot of pain in my heart, but that's another conversatin in itself). But like I said, I made the best of my surroundings, and turned the negative into a positive, and learned to cope with reality. I still stand by my theory, only cause I haven't come up with a new one. I'ts the only thing in life that I'm still not quite clear on. As far as the fucking pledge of alleigance shit, I'm so outraged on that subject, and I can't fucking believe that they still do that shit in school! I want to protest against it, and to be honest, if I'd had known, I would have NEVER stood up for that. Not that I would want to show any disrespectfor the country that took me in from a hellish country, but that whole "god" concept, it's rediculous!