Joyrde's
Power Brake Thoughts
(4-wheel disc)
Looking for Input

van
Updated - 11.31.2013
updated from 3.8.2008
many P/Ns have been changed or
are no longer offered from the sources cited.
I did find all the front parts available
through Autozone.


Long Download

So. . . as geezers, pre-geezers and folks looking to improve our vannin' experience there is a "need" for an effective, "simple, cheap & easy" method to install disc brakes (power ???) in our first and second generation vans.

Before moving on, I must thank M1Dado, BvrWalley and RipVanArkie for their input, direction and completed and working (power) brake conversions - - they are all great!!! Some conversions are front disc/rear brake others are 4-wheel disc brakes. As always - - - I am just looking for "cheap & easy".

As I will be installing 4-wheel disc brakes, I am  concentrating on that set-up.

Many of the pictures are "borrowed" from others & most of the "imagineering" has been done by others. I will credit them all as time permits.  I am just assembling many parts into one place so I may better complete a virtual build.

3/9/2013
Words of Wisdom from m1dadio who has completed the conversion



I have four wheel disc brakes on my 1st gen. I did not use that ('79 - '85 Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera) rear disc set up, but I believe it is the best option for early rear disc set up.

That ('79 - '85 Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera) rear disc set up is available cheep in parts yards. Found on all those front wheel drive Cadillac Eldorado and Oldsmobile Tornado.

I used the Camaro/Firebird rear disc set up which is drum because the calipers are the same both sides so they put one forward of the axle and the other behind the axle, but the main reason the Cadillac rear disc brakes are better is because the caliper piston size is smaller which makes for better proportioning on these vans . The Camaro caliper pistons are a bit too big and I have my proportioning valve maxed to one end and I still think I have too much rear brakes.

You see a lot of hot rod s with rear disc and the disc itself looks rusty all the time. This is shameful to see at hot rod shows not because of the rust or dark look but because it tells you the proportioning is wrong and that a the rear brakes are hardly being used at all or not at all. That is a seriously dangerous situation because if you have to slam on the brakes in an emergency, you front brakes are going to lock up and the rear wheel drive keep pushing from behind. Any of you out there who have driven on ice before know what I'm talking about.

Its important to reduce the rear braking so they don't lock up on regular braking but its a very dangerous situation if the rear brakes are not used enough and the fronts lock first.
A properly set up four wheel disc brake set up will have shiny rotors all around and will be producing corrosive brake dust and rotor fillings to stain your mags equally al around.

So yea I've been there/tried that, I think that ('79 - '85 Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera) rear disc set up is the best choice.

Don't forget you have to have your axles flange machined down to smaller dia, so they will fit into the rotor hat section. That's what GM did when adding the rear disc option.


Following are some research and thoughts I have:

Stock Front Brake
Drum removed
** note shock location **
front brake 1
Click to Enlarge

Stock Front Brake
  Hub removed

Front Brake 2
Click to Enlarge

Brake Parts removed
Steering Spindle

front brake 3
Click to Enlarge

Disc Brake Adapter
(BZ's ??? NOT an M1dadio)

Installed
frnt brake 4
Click to Enlarge

Rotor installed

**May need to file/grind hub **
(if using an S-10 rotor)
Front brake
Click to Enlarge

Caliper Installed
**Note Shock Location**
(moved
from rear to front)
Front brake installed
Click to Enlarge
Installation Instructions - - scroll to end.



Parts needed
Master Cylinder
C3 Corvette disc/disc
(Power Brakes)
Summit Racing
cpp master cylinder
Click for info

Option #2
(Manual Brakes)
Summit Racing
Proportioning Valve
C3 Corvette disc/disc


prop valve


Rear Disc Brake Information

Caliper Mount Brackets
'79 - '85 Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera

disc brackets
Click to Enlarge
Rear Calipers
'79 - '85 Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera

Calipers
These are from CPP
Click to Enlarge

Rotors

'79 - '85 Eldorado/Toronado/Riverea
Early '90's S10 Front
AutoZone #5550
vanbrakerearrotor.jpg
Click for more Info

Long
Wheel Lugs



'64 - '70 Chevrolet Van

Stock Rear Brake
van drum brake

click to enlarge

'64 - '70 Chevrolet Van

Stock Rear Brake Axle Removed
/vanbrakeaxleremoved.jpg
click to enlarge


'79 - '85 Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera
Stock Rear Disc Brake Caliper Bracket

Installed
'64 - '70 Chevrolet Van
/vanrearcalindtdndrild.jpg
click to enlarge

'79 - '85 Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera
Stock Rear Disc Brake Caliper Bracket

Installed
'64 - '70 Chevrolet Van
vanbrakebrakinstald1.jpg
click to enlarge

'79 - '85 Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera
Stock Rear Disc Brake Caliper/Rotor

Installed
'64 - '70 Chevrolet Van /vanbrakereardiscinstld.jpg
click to enlarge



brake diagram
courtesy of RipVanArkie
http://www.vcvc.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004168.html (dead)
http://vintagevans.forumup.jobs/viewtopic.php?t=5028&highlight=&mforum=vintagevans
Must be a member
Possible used parts source
e-Bay - Jeff_Vette Store- (Dead)


Front Brake Parts Needed
using BZ's Caliper mounts
Wild Bill's List: (joyrde modified 11/31/13)
"Parts you will need. these part #’s are from AutoZone.com  (p/n changed - same parts)
  • ‘73 nova front rotor - 2pcs . . . . . . P/N - 5514 
  • ‘73 nova outer bearing - 2pcs . . . P/N - SET 2     (same as 2nd gen Van)
  • ‘73 nova inner bearing  - 2pcs . . . P/N - SET 6     (same as 2nd gen Van)
  • ‘73 nova grease seal  - 2pcs . . . . . P/N - D8705S  (same as 2nd gen Van)
  • ‘74 ½ ton chevy van caliper(loaded) Right - RC4059
  • ‘74 ½ ton chevy van caliper(loaded) Left    - RC4060
  • ‘74 ½ ton chevy van brake line(right) - 77021
  • ‘74 ½ ton chevy van brake line(left)    - 77020
  • 7/16"- 20 by 1 3/4“ long grade 8 bolt - 4pcs
  • 7/16"-20 lock nut 4pcs
  • 3/8" I.D. washers or spacers that are about 1/4" thick - 2pcs
  • ½"-13 by 4-1/2" long grade 8 bolt(if you don’t move the upper shock mount) - 2pcs
  • ½"-13 lock nut
    • (if you don’t move the upper shock mount) -  2pcs 
      • spacer for top shock mount
    • spacer will fit in upper shock mount ,bolt will pass thru mount and spacer ,shock will be positioned in front of shock mount.
BvrWalley's experience
  1. Remove tire, brake drum, wheel hub, backing plate, brake line, steering stop bolt and shock.
  2. Reuse bottom bolts that hold control arm to spindle, oriented in the stock position.(head of bolt on rotor side)
  3. Use two 7/16"-20 by 1-3/4" long grade 8 bolts to bolt the bracket to the back of spindle, oriented the same direction as the bottom stock bolts.
  4. Before you tighten the bolts down, position some flat washers or a spacer about 1/4" thick between the bracket and the back of the spindle where the steering stop bolt goes thru the bracket. Or you can grind down your jamb nut to fit in this space. If you use washers or a spacer, tighten the bolts that hold the bracket to the spindle, then pass the stop bolt thru the bracket and washers/ spacer and tighten the jamb nut after you set the travel of your turn. If you grind your jamb nut down, then just screw the stop bolt thru the jamb nut while it is sandwiched between the bracket and spindle. Then tighten the bracket mounting bolts, and jamb nut.
  5. Put the new inner bearing in the back of the rotor and install the new grease seal, slide the rotor on the spindle and put in new outer bearing, keyed washer(stock from your van) and castle nut(stock from your van) tighten to spec and replace cotter pin, and dust cap(stock from your van)
  6. Slide caliper over rotor and position on bracket, slide mounting pins thru bracket and caliper and tighten.
  7. Replace brake line and bleed system.
  8. Replace shock, relocating it to the front of the axle, using the stock bolt on the bottom mount, and using a spacer in the top mount and a ½”-13 by 4-1/2" long grade 8 bolt to hold the top. Or relocate the top shock mount and use the stock bolt .
(Notes)
  • The brake line should work ,but I have not verified it. “Twovanman” said he thinks that was what he used.
  • The nova bearings and grease seal are the same as a 1st gen van, if yours are good you can reuse them.
  • The rotors I got were not identical, one had a small step turned on the hub, no big deal, I can turn the other to match, it’s easier than shipping one back, but if you get them local ,you might want to check them before you leave the store."
  • Using M1dadio's brackets...you can omit the Nova Rotors/hubs and use S10's instead.
  • B.W.




Rear Disc Brake Parts
If not using CPP kit. These are the caliper parts you will need.

Calipers 
1985 Cadillac
  * Seville ('79 - '85 Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera) rear
       with
internal E-brake (with pads and hardware)  
        * Wagner L- 107094     R- 107095
        * Autozone - P4138 (Pair loaded) with all caliper parts

Remainder of caliper parts from GM Cadillac parts counter
  • Return Spring bracket & bolt
    • GM 18005312 (l)
    • GM 18005311 (r)
  • Return Spring (2)            
    • GM 18005822
  • E-Brake Levers               
    • GM 18003044 (l)
    • GM 18003045 (r)
  • Brake Hoses  Depends on YOUR design
    • These have been used (Ford application) SAE J1401 (2)
      • 15MM Banjo Bolts
  • Rotors
    • Stock Caddy with - (flat washer on each wheel stud behind the rotor. With that done it's a perfect fit! -RipVanArkie)










Thoughts???

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