Van Disc Brakes

Joyrde's

Power Brake Thoughts

(4-wheel disc)
(UNDER MAJOR CONSTRUCTION)
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This page and all the links are a record of my experience, for my personal use.
Nothing here nor in the accompanying links are intended to be a "how-to",
a guide, recommendation for anyone, other than myself.

Updated - 3.25.2014
updated from 3.8.2008

many P/Ns have been changed or
are no longer offered from the sources cited.
I did find all the brake parts available
through either
Autozone, NAPA, or Summit Racing.

Long Download

All of the following work is not for the inexperienced or under-equipped. I am an ASE Master Tech, taught high school Auto Tech for 30+ years, have had an automotive repair shop for a number of years, and have 50+ years automotive experience. Although my, present, shop is a "hobby" shop, it is a well-equipped. If I did not have the machining tools needed, I had the work professionally done. All the fasteners are Grade 8. There are no shortcuts or easy methods. All the parts are either new or professionally rebuilt. Neither is this retro-fit inexpensive or a quick "kit" installation. I have at least 100 hours of hands-on, parts runs & on-the spot fabricating in this project. As for cost, a rough estimate for all new/rebuilt parts, brackets, etc., is at least $1,000.00+ invested in this project. Many of the parts were purchased over a six year period. The bulk of the rear components, and a few of the remaining components were bought from "big box stores" that run sales on eBay. I also live close to Summit Racing's original store. Whenever I am in the area, I often "shop" their clearance section for parts. When the Van is back on the road and the bugs worked out, I will crunch & post the numbers. There were NO "used" parts used in this retro-fit. Only new or professionally rebuilt components were used. Reasoning So. . . as geezers, pre-geezers and folks looking to improve our vannin' experience there is a "need" for an effective, "simple, cheap & easy" method to install disc brakes (power ???) in our first and second generation vans. Before moving on, I must thank BZ, RipVanArkie, M1Dadio, & BvrWalley and for their research, work, planning, input, direction and completed and working (power) brake conversions - - they are all great!!! Some conversions are front disc/rear brake others are 4-wheel disc brakes. As always - - - I am just looking for "cheap & easy". As I will be installing 4-wheel disc brakes, I am concentrating on that set-up. Many of the pictures are "borrowed" from others & most of the "imagineering" has been done by others. I will credit them all as time permits. I am just assembling many parts into one place so I may better complete a virtual build. The following is my experience. Yours may be different. Some upgrades may take more modifications, others less.


Following is the install on my '67 GMC Van The procedures are based on the work, successes of others, as well as, my 50 years+ work experience in the automotive field.
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Unexpected When I disassembled the front brakes, I found both kingpins were not within specifications. I removed them, bought a king pin bushing kit, with metal bushings, from Rare Auto Parts. As of this 2/22/2014, there are 3 kits in stock. Following are the "general" instructions I followed to check & install king pins. Factory instructions My Experiences

Front Brake Disc Brake Install
Whatever brackets you use for the install, PLEASE, read & follow the instructions completely. I swapped several e-mails with M1dadio before purchasing the brackets he recommended for my application. m1dadio & I also swapped several emails during the build. If you like the install below, Please contact M1dadio for more information.
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Stock Front Brake note shock position does not change Click to Enlarge	Brake Parts removed Steering Spindle Click to Enlarge	Stock Front Brake Click to Enlarge	Stock Front Brake Click to Enlarge
Stock Front Brake Side view Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Adapter Side view Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Rotor Side view Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Caliper Side view Click to Enlarge
M1dadio Bracket Hub work 1 Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Bracket Hub work 2 Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Bracket Hub work 3 Click to Enlarge	Rotor installed Need to file/grind/machine hub (this is a Firebird rotor) specific instructions included with M1dadio brackets Click to Enlarge

Please note, the Van is running after market wheels designed for vehicles with disc brakes (Camaros & Novas). 14" X 6" wheels in the front 15" X 8" wheels in the rear. Even so, portions of the front calipers needed "clearanced"
Wheel 14" front 15" rear Click to Enlarge	Front wheel Clearance Measurements Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Caliper stock fit Click to Enlarge.	M1dadio Front Brake Caliper after grinding Click to Enlarge
Using non-recommended heavy duty brake pads NAPA SS-728-A-M Click to Enlarge	Using non-recommended heavy duty brake pads - pad ears ground to fit - Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Caliper fit Wheel Installed Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Adapter & Caliper painted Click to Enlarge
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Stock Front Brake Front view - right turn Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Adapter Front view right turn Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Rotor Front view right turn Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Caliper Front view right turn Click to Enlarge.
Stock Front Brake Front view Left turn Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Adapter front view left turn Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Rotor Front view left turn Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Caliper Front view left turn Click to Enlarge
Stock Front Brake Rear view left turn Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Adapter Rear view left turn Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Caliper Rear view left turn Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Caliper Rear view left turn Click to Enlarge
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Stock Front Brake Wheel Installed Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Wheel Installed front Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Wheel Installed left turn Click to Enlarge	M1dadio Front Brake Wheel Installed left turn Click to Enlarge
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On my 1967 GMC 108, G 10 Van, when installing calipers designed for a 1980's Firebird, both stabilizer axle mounts need to be moved inward. On the driver's side the stabilizer mount also needs to be moved upward to clear the steering arm. Below is what I did to accomplish both. As has been mentioned throughout this site. all the modifications, design changes installations & removals are what worked for me. Nothing on this site or links are meant to be recommendations. Stabilizer Bar Mounting Options Options
.	Stock Sway Bar Mount Front Click to Enlarge	Stock Sway Bar Mount left turn Click to Enlarge	Stock Sway Bar Mount right turn Click to Enlarge
non-modified Sway Bar Mount (left side) for M1Dadio Caliper Bracket left turn Click to Enlarge	Modified Sway Bar Mount for M1Dadio Caliper Bracket Design Click to Enlarge	Modified Sway Bar Mount (left side) for M1Dadio Caliper Bracket left turn Click to Enlarge	Modified Sway Bar Mount (left side) for M1Dadio Caliper Bracket right turn Click to Enlarge
Modified Sway Bar Mount (right side) for M1Dadio Caliper Bracket left turn Click to Enlarge	Modified Sway Bar Mount (right side) for M1Dadio Caliper Bracket right turn Click to Enlarge	Sway Bar Mount (top) for M1Dadio Caliper Bracket left turn Click to Enlarge.	Sway Bar Mount (rear) for M1Dadio Caliper Bracket left turn Click to Enlarge
Master Cylinder Updates
Stock Master Cylinder Click to Enlarge	Stock Pressure Differential Valve Installed Click to Enlarge	.	.
Corvette Master Cylinder Click to Enlarge	New Disc/Disc Valving Installed Side view Click to Enlarge	New Disc/Disc Valving Installed Bottom view Click to Enlarge	Power Bleeding using a Moto Power Bleeder Very difficult to fit !!! parking brake pulley must be removed Click to Enlarge
Floor Paint MUST follow instructions exactly Click to Enlarge	Finished New Disc/Disc Valving Installation front view Click to Enlarge	Finished New Disc/Disc Valving Installation side view Click to Enlarge	Finished New Disc/Disc Valving Installation bottom view Click to Enlarge
Thread sealer The residual valves have National Pipe Thread (NPT). Adapters must be used to convert the the NPT to the 3/16" brake line fitttings, Be sure to seal the threads of NPT ends of the couplers NOT the brake line ends of the couplers. I used Rectoseal TruBlue Which can be purchased many places.
.	which comes in variety of sizes	Click to enlarge	.
Installation Suggestions - - scroll to end.
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Front Disc Brakes Parts needed (with rear disc Brake Upgrade)
Master Cylinder Chevrolet Truck disc/disc Summit Racing Click for info	Proportioning Valve Wildwood Summit Racing Click for more info INSTRUCTION SHEET	Residual Valves (3) Front/Rear/Trailer Brake Controller Summit Racing Click for more info	Proportioning Valve History/"one" source Click for info
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using Midadio's caliper mounts Parts used in my retro-fit. Your retro-fit may have different requirements. These part #’s are from a variety of sources. Because I live close to Summit Racing, I buy many of the specialized parts from Summit. I also comparison shop other parts, using Summit as a baseline. I often "shop" their clearance section, watch for sales, and use their free shipping option. The remainder of the parts are from either AutoZone.com or NAPA (some p/n changed - same parts). M1dadio has requested that the instructions for the caliper mount not be reprinted, or shared. For the most part, the reasoning for not sharing instructions are based in potential lawsuits, and copyrights, not to mention his 100's of hours of work, planning & money spent developing his front disc brake mounts. If you decide to complete this retro-fit, and buy M1dadio's mounts the instructions are very detailed and complete. Contact M1dadio If you do not have either extensive training and/or brake experience, please do not attempt this or the rear disc retro-fit. One mistake, or short cut can cost lives. All the fasteners are Grade 8. M1dadio caliper mount - # M1D80TA (complete with detailed instructions & parts list) '80 Firebird front rotor - 2pcs . . . . . . P/N - BEN-PRT5206 Summit Racing ‘67 GMC G-10 Van grease seal - 2pcs . P/N - D8705S NAPA '80 Firebird caliper semi-(loaded) Right - SE 4571 - NAPA '80 Firebird caliper(semi-loaded) Left - SE 4572 - NAPA '82 Firebird brake line (right) - 38102 - NAPA ‘82 Firebird brake line (left) - 38102 - NAPA Master Cylinder - DBMC05 -Manual Frt/rear disc brake (truck) - Summit Racing Proportioning Valve - - Summit Racing Residual Valve (3 my app only) - - Summit Racing Fasteners needed to attach caliper adapter & steering arms - 7/16"- 20 by 1 3/4“ long grade 8 bolt - 4pcs - Fastenal 7/16"-20 lock nut - 4pcs - Fastenal 3/8" I.D. washers or spacers that are about 1/4" thick - 2pcs - Fastenal ½"-13 by 4-1/2" long grade 8 bolt(if you don’t move the upper shock mount) - 2pcs - Fastenal spacer for top shock mount ½"-13 lock nut - 2pcs - Fastenal (if you don’t move the upper shock mount) - 2pcs NAPA spacer will fit in upper shock mount ,bolt will pass through mount and spacer ,shock will be positioned in front of shock mount
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BvrWalley's experience - (using BZ's caliper mounts) Remove tire, brake drum, wheel hub, backing plate, brake line, steering stop bolt and shock. Reuse bottom bolts that hold control arm to spindle, oriented in the stock position.(head of bolt on rotor side) Use two 7/16"-20 by 1-3/4" long grade 8 bolts to bolt the bracket to the back of spindle, oriented the same direction as the bottom stock bolts. Before you tighten the bolts down, position some flat washers or a spacer about 1/4" thick between the bracket and the back of the spindle where the steering stop bolt goes through the bracket. Or you can grind down your jamb nut to fit in this space. If you use washers or a spacer, tighten the bolts that hold the bracket to the spindle, then pass the stop bolt through the bracket and washers/ spacer and tighten the jamb nut after you set the travel of your turn. If you grind your jamb nut down, then just screw the stop bolt through the jamb nut while it is sandwiched between the bracket and spindle. Then tighten the bracket mounting bolts, and jamb nut. Put the new inner bearing in the back of the rotor and install the new grease seal, slide the rotor on the spindle and put in new outer bearing, keyed washer(stock from your van) and castle nut(stock from your van) tighten to spec and replace cotter pin, and dust cap(stock from your van) Slide caliper over rotor and position on bracket, slide mounting pins through bracket and caliper and tighten. Replace brake line and bleed system. Replace shock, relocating it to the front of the axle, using the stock bolt on the bottom mount, and using a spacer in the top mount and a ½”-13 by 4-1/2" long grade 8 bolt to hold the top. Or relocate the top shock mount and use the stock bolt . (Notes) The brake line should work ,but I have not verified it. “Twovanman” said he thinks that was what he used.The nova bearings and grease seal are the same as a 1st gen van, if yours are good you can reuse them.The rotors I got were not identical, one had a small step turned on the hub, no big deal, I can turn the other to match, it’s easier than shipping one back, but if you get them local ,you might want to check them before you leave the store."Using M1dadio's brackets...you can omit the Nova Rotors/hubs and use S10's instead.B.W.
Good thing I decided to upgrade
Less than 10,000 miles Leading shoe	Less than 10,000 miles Trailing shoe	.	.
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As with the front disc brake installation, the following is meant to be ONLY a record for me. If you decide to complete this install, there are several after market manufacturers who have rear disc brake kits available. Please use one of these kits. ALWAYS follow the manufacturer's recommendations and instructions. KIT Search Although I purchased the 1979 - 1985 Eldorado/Tornado/Riviera mounting brackets & calipers from an on-line kit company - CPP, both the brackets and calipers are available in many wrecking yards. After pricing rebuild kits, & pistons for the Caddy calipers AND the amount of work and time needed to clean and prep both calipers and brackets, buying new and refurbished was actually cheaper. The following is NOT an instruction procedure.
Rear Disc Brake Thoughts
3/9/2013 Words of Wisdom from m1dadio who has completed a rear disc brake conversion I have four wheel disc brakes on my 1st gen. I did not use that ('79 - '85 Eldorado/Tornado/Riviera) rear disc set up, but I believe it is the best option for early rear disc set up. That ('79 - '85 Eldorado/Tornado/Riviera) rear disc set up is available cheep in parts yards. Found on all those front wheel drive Cadillac Eldorado and Oldsmobile Tornado. I used the Camaro/Firebird rear disc set up which is drum because the calipers are the same both sides so they put one forward of the axle and the other behind the axle, but the main reason the Cadillac rear disc brakes are better is because the caliper piston size is smaller which makes for better proportioning on these vans . The Camaro caliper pistons are a bit too big and I have my proportioning valve maxed to one end and I still think I have too much rear brakes. You see a lot of hot rods with rear disc and the disc itself looks rusty all the time. This is shameful to see at hot rod shows not because of the rust or dark look but because it tells you the proportioning is wrong and that a the rear brakes are hardly being used at all or not at all. That is a seriously dangerous situation because if you have to slam on the brakes in an emergency, you front brakes are going to lock up and the rear wheel drive keep pushing from behind. Any of you out there who have driven on ice before know what I'm talking about. Its important to reduce the rear braking so they don't lock up on regular braking but its a very dangerous situation if the rear brakes are not used enough and the fronts lock first. A properly set up four wheel disc brake set up will have shiny rotors all around and will be producing corrosive brake dust and rotor fillings to stain your mags equally all around. So yea I've been there/tried that, I think that ('79 - '85 Eldorado/Tornado/Riviera) rear disc set up is the best choice. Don't forget you have to have your axles flange machined down to smaller dia, so they will fit into the rotor hat section. That's what GM did when adding the rear disc option. http://www.vcvc.org/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002368-2.htm
Before you start What others have experienced
Jay Kopycinski	Speedway Motors	MP Brake Systems	Classic Performance
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Rear Disc Brake Information
Summit Racing partial Parts available If not using CPP kit. These are the caliper parts you will need. Fasteners: (grade 8) 3/8" X 24 X 1.75 - grade 8 bolts - 8 pcs 3/8" - flat washers - 8 pcs 3/8" - grade 8 lock washers - 8 pcs 3/8" X 24 - grade 8 nuts - 8 pcs Calipers - CCP 1979 - 85 Cadillac/Tornado/Rivera * Seville ('79 - '85 Eldorado/Tornado/Riviera) rear with internal E-brake (with pads and hardware) * Optional Sources * Wagner L- 107094 R- 107095 * Autozone - P4138 (Pair loaded) with all caliper parts Rotor '80 Cadillac Eldorado - NAPA Hoses Left - - NAPA Right - - NAPA Banjo bolts - - Remainder of caliper parts (if not included with caliper kit) * from GM Cadillac parts counter Return Spring bracket & bolt GM 18005312 (l) GM 18005311 (r) Return Spring (2) GM 18005822 E-Brake Levers GM 18003044 (l) (see brake hose pics below) GM 18003045 (r) Brake Hoses Depends on YOUR design Used on this REAR disc brake conversion ‘74 ½ ton Chevy van FRONT brake line (right) - 77021 (see brake hose pics below) ‘74 ½ ton Chevy van FRONT brake line (left) - 77020 (see brake hose pics below) These have been used on other conversions (Ford application) SAE J1401 (2) 15MM Banjo Bolts Rotors Stock Caddy ( some installations have required a flat washer installed on each wheel stud behind the rotor to fit properly.) My install did NOT require wheel spacers or washers. From Bob Johnstone's site
Caliper Mount Brackets '79 - '85 Eldorado/Tornado/Riviera Click to Enlarge	Rear Rotors '79 - '85 Eldorado/Tornado/Riverea Install on "machined" axle flanges Click for more Info	Rear Calipers '79 - '85 Eldorado/Tornado/Riviera These are from CPP Click to Enlarge	Long Wheel Lugs 7/16" - 20 X 1.75"

Stock Rear Brake Axle Removed click to enlarge	Rear Disc Brake Bracket Axle Removed Click to Enlarge	.	.
'67 GMC Van Stock Rear Brake Side view click to enlarge	'67 GMC Rear Disc Brake Caliper Bracket Side View click to enlarge	'67 GMC Van Rear Disc Brake Rotor side view click to enlarge	67 GMC Van Rear Disc Brake Caliper side view click to enlarge
'67 GMC Van Stock Rear Brake Rear view click to enlarge	'67 GMC Van Rear Disc Brake Caliper Bracket Rear view click to enlarge	'67 GMC Van Rear Disc Brake Caliper rear view click to enlarge	'67 GMC Van Rear Disc Brake Caliper top view click to enlarge
'67 GMC Van Stock Rear Brake Front view click to enlarge	'67 GMC Van Rear Disc Brake Caliper Bracket front view click to enlarge	'67 GMC Van Rear Disc Brake Caliper front view click to enlarge	.
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Right side Brake hose - rear click to enlarge	Right side Brake hose - top click to enlarge.	Left side Brake hose - Axle Mount click to enlarge	Left side Brake hose - top click to enlarge.
For the rear brakes to operate properly the parking brake MUST operate fully, correctly AND properly. I modified the stock parking brake cable by: adding a spacer bracket & a 1/2" X 3" pipe to hold bracket in place cut 2 1/2" from the return spring on the brake cable . . . at the adjuster end threading the central "pull" bracket an additional 3" Adjustments MUST BE CORRECT - - - period There are a number of methods that have been used o properly adjust the parking brake(s) . The factory suggested method is the "one" correct method. Below are others that have allegedly worked.
Most Informative (worked for me)	Speedway	Master Brake Inc	sort of worked
Right side Parking Brake rod re-thread click to enlarge	Right side Parking Brake - central 1 click to enlarge	Right side Parking Brake - bottom central click to enlarge	Right side Parking Brake - click to enlarge
.	Parking Brake Cable Bracket & spacer Click to Enlarge	Parking Brake Pulley Mod needed to clear Master Cylinder Click for more info	Parking Brake Pulley Mod needed to clear Master Cylinder Click for more info
For the rear brakes to perform properly the following instructions MUST be followed * note steps # 17 & 18 * Rear Brake Adjustments & Bleeding Instructions another method Late '70's Cadillac rear Disc Brake Troubleshooting Site Site link A word of caution from a brake specialist "One of the biggest problems with adding rear disc (brakes) to these "C" clip type rear ends is axle end play. Most factory vehicles with rear disc brakes have the axle type that bolts to the flange so it has almost zero end play. Check your rear end (axle end play) with a dial indicator. If you have .050" end play or more you need to do something to tighten that up. New C clips, spider gear shims and or spider gear pin. Too much axle end play will play havoc with your disc brakes constantly pushing the caliper piston in as your turn corners and the axles/rotors slop back and forth. Some times resulting in constantly needing an extra pump of the brake pedal to take up the slop. There are kits that convert your axles to a flange mount type. M1D
Classic Performance Kit Installation
The end play in my Van 0.045
Stock Master Cylinder & Pressure Differential Switch Click to Enlarge	Stock Master Cylinder & Pressure Differential Switch Click to Enlarge	Stock Master Cylinder & Pressure Differential Switch Click to Enlarge	Stock Master Cylinder Mount Click to Enlarge
.	.	.	Enlarge the master cylinder opening using the white line as a guide.
Replacement Master Cylinder & Proportioning Valve Click to Enlarge	Replacement Master Cylinder, Residual Valve Proportioning Valve Click to Enlarge	Replacement Master Cylinder, Residual Valve Proportioning Valve Click to Enlarge	Parking Brake Pulley Mod Click for more info
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courtesy of RipVanArkie http://www.vcvc.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004168.html (dead) http://vintagevans.forumup.jobs/viewtopic.php?t=5028&highlight=&mforum=vintagevans Must be a member

Click to Enlarge
Troubleshooting
Late '70's Cadillac rear Disc Brake Troubleshooting Site Site link	Wildwood Brake FAQ site	Wildwood Brake Troubleshooting Site	Wildwood Brake Tech Tips.
Possible used parts source e-Bay - Jeff_Vette Store- (fixed)
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Finishing thoughts
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.	Main Page	Vintage Chevy Van Club	.

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