~Banges
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| Virtual Hogwarts .net > Dumbledore`s Office > Should 'The Gutter' stay. |
| Posted by: Dumbledore Jul 9 2003, 08:13 PM |
| OOC...OK.. I have received several messages about postings in the gutter. Just a few points. It is a locked forum and can only be viewed by users with the password. It is in the off topic section and is not as such a part of VH although it is on the same forum. It was originally intended as a place where I thought older users could post and mix with similar users. It seems to have become something other than I originally thought it would. Please vote and the outcome of the vote, along with a discussion with the teachers and most importantly Hagrid, will decide the future(or not) of this particular forum. Thankyou. |
| Posted by: Cien Mashuga Jul 9 2003, 08:18 PM |
| The Gutter, quite frankly, is getting to big. It has already began spreading around the school and chat. If there is a way to TOTALLY confine it to its locked forum I vote for that option. For now, "No." |
| Posted by: CassieXanthe Jul 9 2003, 08:21 PM |
| I chose 'yes' because I don't think it's the Gutter to blame, it's the fact that members of it aren't using the Gutter, but doing their activities outside of it. |
| Posted by: MariaRiddle Jul 9 2003, 08:24 PM |
| I chose "yes" because the Gutter is original...its where people can do what ever they want, its not the gtter to blame, it just the way it is being used and where... |
| Posted by: PhilipL Jul 9 2003, 08:27 PM |
| The gutter is not at fault here. For this reason (and many others) i chose yes. |
| Posted by: Sebastian Kafka Jul 9 2003, 08:28 PM |
| I am a member of the gutter, although I cannot comment on what happened in the chat, as I don't know myself, I don't feel that it is as bad as people have gotten in there minds. The last new topic in the gutter was the terribel jokes thread started by snape, not exactly a mind warping subject. I have appologed for my dancing and strip in the great hall which I tried to keep innuendo free and age appropriate and I have appologed countless times for that now, I do not feel the gutter is to blame for this, it has meerly become a scape goat for some pointless posts by some of its members. *Dumbledore...Mr Kafka has PM`d me on this subject and the post has been removed from the common room. |
| Posted by: Meg Jul 9 2003, 08:34 PM |
| I dont care. I think its up to AJ since the Gutter is hers. She made it she should choose whether or not to get rid of it. *Dumbledore Not to put too fine a point on it..it is up to me. I run this site and ultimately take responsibility for it. |
| Posted by: Persephone Blackwing Jul 9 2003, 08:40 PM |
| yes, it should stay. try and contain it as much as possible if there are problems. however, as i have stated elsewhere, if people don't want to see/read it, they can (and should) ignore it. |
| Posted by: Miriam Shumilova Jul 9 2003, 08:41 PM |
| I said no because people like me are interested in getting in and a lot of the time we aren't allowed in. So i beleive it is unfair to people like me that we have to hear about it and not be part of it. Also this has nothing at all to do with VH. VH is supposed to be a PG site i beleive. So i have no clue why the "gutter" was created. If people want to talk dirty, they can outside of VH. I hope that people hear me out. |
| Posted by: Persephone Blackwing Jul 9 2003, 08:41 PM |
| yes, it should stay. try and contain it as much as possible if there are problems. however, as i have stated elsewhere, if people don't want to see/read it, they can (and should) ignore it. |
| Posted by: Cien Mashuga Jul 9 2003, 08:52 PM | ||
I do not want to start an argument in Dumbledores office but I would like to say Persephone that you can't ignore things that are very sexually related... |
| Posted by: Persephone Blackwing Jul 9 2003, 09:10 PM | ||
| I know, and I agree. I'm also rather inclined to agree with Cassie's earlier post.
|
| Posted by: Kiara_Draten Jul 9 2003, 09:10 PM |
| I said yes. Even if I wasnt involved in last nights events, I still would say yes. Its a place for people to express things in a very odd way, and when it spreads other places, punishment is definantly needed, and I am glad we were punished. Im sure since such a thing has happened as the gutter possibly closing, NOBODY will spread it outside there again. Maybe its a threat like closing it that will make people listen. |
| Posted by: Mami Jul 9 2003, 09:11 PM |
| I have no idea what the gutter is and it's not like anyone will tell me! it's really not fair and i'm completely confused on how the other people found out! Clues from previous posts leads me to this opinion:If it's something dirty, i say what's the point of it? People have e-mail address, get it form one another and do your thing. If it really is something sexually related, i would say no because it's just a waste of space. I'm completely stumped to what it is so i suppose my opinion is irrevelant! |
| Posted by: Mr. Banges Jul 9 2003, 09:13 PM |
| Urm, no... I'm actually getting an outside opinion on the Gutter here at Hogwarts right now. I will be PMing the link to Dumbledore later, to see if it will help in anyway ~Banges |
| Posted by: mike stevenson Jul 9 2003, 09:16 PM |
| This is so disgusting so... NO!!!!! |
| Posted by: Pidget Ko Jul 9 2003, 09:27 PM |
| I am not a member of the gutter and so I do not know exactly what happens in the 'gutter' and whatnot. However, I voted "NO" on this particular poll. The reasons are simple. This site is a Virtual Hogwarts site, and therefore when coming to this site, a person would assume that they are coming to a place to role play as if they were attending the school created by JKR in her Harry Potter series. They would not expect to come to a prostitution house filled with sexually crazed students. I feel very strongly that the gutter should be disbanded. When the gutter first began I didn’t like it and I still don’t like it today. It might be fine if they would keep their actions out of the public eye, but on many occasions (not just the one last night) they have not. I know that I am not the only person to have felt uncomfortable, disgusted, or in the very least, left out when the gutter has been on full-steam. I hope this helps you make your decision Dumbledore. |
| Posted by: Sariss Jul 9 2003, 09:27 PM |
| I can honestly say that I tried VERY hard to ignore the gutter. You can't ignore something that's EVERYWHERE. So I choose a firm NO. And if you have an ounce of responsibility for the people who love Harry Potter in you, you'll do so too. VH is a Harry Potter site. The Gutter is not HP. The Gutter is off-topic. Then why are off-topic ramblings carried into the chat and into VH and treated as if they were being canon? Now you might want to say: "Oooh! What a canon fanatic!" Well, excuse me! But if we're not trying to adhere to canon at all... then why did we have to replace Professor Black with Moody? Answer me that! Shouldn't it be our goal to keep VH as close to JK Rowling's wonderful world as possible? Frankly, I encounter enough of this sickness in real life. I came here to escape all this stuff. Any comment on my prudeness? That's what I really expect from you guys now. Go on. I'll be happy to throw things back into your faces. I'm fuming. And I'll be happy to dish out a few cleverly disguised insults. |
| Posted by: McGonagall Jul 9 2003, 09:42 PM |
| Admin, I voted "no" and I will keep it that way unless there is a EFFECTIVE way of keeping all Gutterness out of chat and every other place on the boards besides their locked forum. So if there are solutions to it..I will gladly consider my vote if I see that it is worth it... I have my own reasons and thoughts on why i chose no myself. I am a friend of AJ's and others in the Gutter but that doesn't mean I'm going to pick something that I don't want. Everytime we have an argument over whether the Gutter should stay or not. Some body almost always have to say. "Well, this site was created for all ages so we should be allowed." Yes, YOU are allowed here as a person, but unacceptable behaviour along with it shouldn't be anywhere where younger users can see. I am young myself you know but I know those things and isn't exactly very ignorant on that subject. This site was created first in Chat 1 where we all were having RPs with canons, and this idea was thought up. It was brought to you of course you agreed to it and put it under construction. The purpose of this site was to create a free,safe, Virtual Environment like Hogwarts in the books. the feel, classes, and activities. The Gutter has nothing to do with VH though alot of us do know about it, some in it, and created in our chat. It still isnt HP related..that's why it is in the non Vh stuff... Of course, the Gutter was closed before from all the chaos but brought back, only now in its own forum. You (admin) have given your money to this site and so much more time and effort, with the big help from hagrid and all of us professors trying to help. You were kind enough to give them their own forum even when it had nothing to do with HP so they can enjoy it. You gave them their freedom in there but they didn't value that and crossed the line by doing it in chat under a professor's nose when they KNOW for a fact, gutter isn't allowed there..nor any other sexual, inapproiate activity..But doing it under a Professor's watch shows disrespect against the teacher and the guidelines set for them. Then, having the nerve to do it on the boards in the Great Hall. (btw...it isn't only Gutters..this involves others too) I admit that I may have done wrong things too..but not anymore.... We have told them before and before..but it never works.... They got their own forum..so why not bring this activity in there. Haven't you given them enough freedom? This site wasn't created for this kind of stuff so why should it be allowed on our boards? If they love it as much as they do then they should've followed the rules or pay for their own boards where they can put effort into. . . There is many young people on this site, and one slip up have caused this much trouble already. It we keep forgiving will it keep happening> Yes, most likely it would. I have even seena nd heard a 11 year old girl ask to be in the Gutter when I asked <will not say name> about it <no name> replied that even though she's young..they have to give everyone who's interested a chance... Admin, would you want your kids to go in the Gutter? We didn't put hard work in this site for this.. The people could at least apprecaite the kindness you and hagrid have given them with their locked forum... If they truly cared for the gutter, then the rules shuldn't have been broken so easily like that..also, it seems as if they use this site as a place fot it..I mean, they can easily find another site or pay their own money to have the Gutter..can't they? Those are my reasons...and if anyone can list benefits of having the gutter ..try... We have made a compromise before...and it seems as if the Gutter don't think they have enough... So send me all the hate PMs, spiteful words, call me harsh..It doesn't matter if you do..It matters if you can back the goodness of the gutter or not. Lil (Professor McGonagall) Oh, and I love this site...and most of the people here...I do not want anything happening that will harm our reputation....because this will be the best RP site...no not best cyber site..the Best RP site! |
| Posted by: Starmia Jul 9 2003, 09:50 PM |
| I vote yes, because even though I am disgusted by the actions of the "gutter people", I think it would be an even worse situation if they didn't have anywhere to vent what they feel is needed. At least with the gutter being present they have someone to discuss that stuff, without it, it would almost certainly be across the entire span of VH... |
| Posted by: McGonagall Jul 9 2003, 09:56 PM |
| Starmia, we have had a compromise....but they keep breaking it...do you honestly think it won't happen again? So....you mean if I was in a house with my kids..I am allowed to do sexual activity with my husband in front of my child and get away with it right? let me evaluate what I mean here....The Locked Forum is their Gutter home...and if you had a child enter there...wouldn't it be like that situation? Would you want your child in a forum where things as such are discussed possibly..and with online people... They can't even be satisfied with letting their crude humor in the locked forum....they want more... |
| Posted by: Juliana Wood Jul 9 2003, 10:02 PM |
| *Juliana Wood cringes. Okay guys, I love the gutter and I'm a member. I've been around since it was created and even before. The thing is that the success of this site is more important to me than any forum or thread. The things that are happening with the members of the gutter are offensive and way out of control. The moderators have tried to do their best to control these things and it is just not possible apparently. I know it sucks that it's all going to be ruined by people who can't control themselves and keep it all in the gutter, but I think that the best course of action would be to disband the gutter. I know that I'm probably going to catch alot of flack over this and don't get me wrong....but I think that the gutter not only gives the wrong idea to new members, but it also is undermining the autority of the moderators so I'm going to have to cast my vote for getting rid of it....sorry AJ, you know I love you. |
| Posted by: Joshua Parker Jul 9 2003, 10:04 PM |
| I think it should stay, but only if we can manage to confine it to its locked forum. |
| Posted by: Starmia Jul 9 2003, 10:08 PM |
| I see what you mean, Professor McGonagall, and you do have a very good point. |
| Posted by: McGonagall Jul 9 2003, 10:14 PM |
| Manage to confine it to its own forum? haven't we already tried that Josh...For months now, we have been trying to control it..so what makes you think it would be different... You better give some good backing to it...How do YOU suppose we do it? Do you know how hard the people around here work for this place? Don't give me any lousy excuse that you didn't think the rules weren't official in that chat btw to those people...If you are under your VH name in a chat we set up for VH and under VH professor watch then you will follow the rules....and to hear that a professor was amongst this...*growl* |
| Posted by: Sebastian Kafka Jul 9 2003, 10:14 PM | ||
Oh please, the gutter is a closed forum so I know people don't know whats happening in it, but to assume it is a "prostitution house" is a bit ludacris. It has some things that aren't suitable for younger studenst, that is why it is closed and in the 'off topic' bit. I deeply regret that 'gutterish' acts penetrate the chat and thread in VH and I have appologised for any action I had in them but it is not the gutters fault but the studenst, and we have been punished accordingly and will be refraining from doing anything simular again. |
| Posted by: miranda Jul 9 2003, 10:16 PM |
| I just wanted to point something out... about the 11 year old girl... Yes, the Gutter should be locked and no, little kids should not be allowed into it but think about it: Don't you remember being a little kid and being denied certain things because you were too young? I know that I hated it and felt like I was being treated like a baby. I still am treated that way sometimes! The Gutter, as it stands now, is a forum visible to everyone and locked to many. Now, to me, the forum is like dangling meat in front of a shark or something. As Miriam stated, there are many people who want to at least see the Gutter and it's unfair to deny them it. BUT, due to the content inside the Gutter (I don't know exactly what is in there) obviously it is not appropriate to just let anyone in there. So basically what I'm saying is this: Everyone should be allowed in the Gutter, but at the same time NOT everyone should be allowed in the Gutter. Therefore, my opinion is that there isn't a fair way for the Gutter to exist. My vote is no, though I also think this is all becoming more trouble than it's worth.  |
| Posted by: McGonagall Jul 9 2003, 10:17 PM |
| RIGHT SEB THANK YOU! It is OFF TOPIC! THEREFORE IT DOES NOT BELONG HERE! |
| Posted by: Kiara_Draten Jul 9 2003, 10:19 PM |
| On second thought. Kiara doesnt want it to stay. Tori does. Gah. |
| Posted by: McGonagall Jul 9 2003, 10:20 PM |
| And Miranda, you are right.... DID ANYONE SEE THAT POST "PORNO IN THE GUTTER" by goku or something? huh? I hate to edit the title to P**** so it wouldn't look so bad.and the reason I didn't delete it was I wanted people to KNOW what the KIDS THINK ABOUT IT. He even asked for the password to the Gutter.. Is everyone trying to let Vh become something we didn't want? over careless mistakes and decisions you can be effecting vH's future.. and i WILL NOT let Vh go down. |
| Posted by: Professor_Vector Jul 9 2003, 10:21 PM |
| But not everything on Vh is "on topic", so can you really say that since something is off topic it sould be gotten rid of? You have very good point minnie, the students screwd up royally but they are paying for it. It's not the gutter's fault that some of it's memebers lost control. I'd also like to point out that it wasn't just the court that recieved point loss. |
| Posted by: Jinx Jul 9 2003, 10:23 PM |
| Only in the free world can we argue for or against verbal pornography. The site is a financial drain for Admin and I would prefer to see all things taken off that are not related to VH. I also think we lead by example. There are many sites where verbal and visual pornography are available. I visited the gutter when it was first started. It was humurous and fun. I have not been in it since but it sounds like it is a little out of hand and a line crossed that Admin set. I don't believe that was AJ's intent. Even in the virtual world, there are rules, that if broken, have concequences. This is a concequence of breaking the rules, you lose the gutter. I vote to take the site out. The question really is, do we need an adult only forum (pornography). |
| Posted by: Seb_Darwin Jul 9 2003, 10:24 PM |
| it's all quite simple really. So WE didn't see their things, they'd get one place to post. a private place... yet it still leaked out! What was the point of getting the closed topic to begin with? They abused the right to have the gutter, so take it away! |
| Posted by: Kiara_Draten Jul 9 2003, 10:25 PM |
| (Right-o erm, Im too lazy to log out, so I will do this oddly..) Kiara: Gutter shouldnt stay, because it enforces wrong to the other places of this site. And Im very sorry to have been involved in this mess, its not the real me when I do things like that. And I have stopped being like that. Gutter should close. (heres where it gets wierd) Tori: Gutter should stay. It was me acting in it last night, but through Kiara, unfortunate for her. I am unsorted, and Im looking foward to staying here, and seeing things like the Gutter staying. |
| Posted by: ShelleyBeachdweller Jul 9 2003, 10:25 PM |
| I voted NO! Point being is this is a Harry Potter based website and rude, crude behavior doesn't have anything to do with Harry Potter. If people want to 'snog' and have 'ice cream', they can instant message each other or maybe get a boyfriend or girlfriend to do it with in RL or, better yet, seek counseling. Their parents shouldn't allow them to use the computer for a year. It's just plain creepy... My impression of this site is so that people can role play and pretend to be at Hogwarts learning how to be good witches and wizards, not have cybersex.  I'm sure there's plenty of websites out there where people can be that way.  Gross....Mom B |
| Posted by: Jennifer_Royal Jul 9 2003, 10:26 PM |
| I'd like to point out that the gutter is no where near porno status it contains adult information, but hence the lock bit. I mean really have you ever been into the gutter? Snogging happens, ince-cream on the other hand does not, it is a word we use when we talk about sex. plain and simple. Plus there is no cybersex, i wouldn't be a part of it if there was |
| Posted by: Victoria Lopez Jul 9 2003, 10:29 PM |
| I think the Gutter is a place for the more adult students here to hang out. And they have every right to do so, as long as its alright with the admins of the site. When it gets out of hand, punishments should happen, much like they did last night. But just threaten to take away the Gutter, and Im SURE they would cooperate to your every rule after that. |
| Posted by: McGonagall Jul 9 2003, 10:29 PM | ||||
| And I believe in my post, I did mention that other students were involved..the Gutter members ofabused their rights..and those students have done wrong..so both needs to be punished... But as Gutter members, they should KNOW what is allowed and expected of their behavoir out of there.
cassie....The point is...the activities AREN'T allowed elsewhere....they have their own forum but it isn't enough..so now..we all should start giving the Gutter the whole site? Give them the freedom to snog elsewhere? and then all of us should hide in their forum, right?
That is the cowardly way of doing it. You cannot ignore it..so that gives the Gutter a hige advantage over us and make the old compromise an unfair one for VH... They can just start posting and going in chat...acting that way..and all of us..will just ignore them...and ignore the little kids that see this activity also... |
| Posted by: Pidget Ko Jul 9 2003, 10:31 PM |
| If people want to 'snog' and have 'ice cream', they can instant message each other or maybe get a boyfriend or girlfriend to do it with in RL or, better yet, seek counseling LOL Shelly- you're officially my hero |
| Posted by: Kittie Jul 9 2003, 10:32 PM |
| I chose that it should stay, but I'm not revealing my reasons. I don't need all of you people jumping all over me, trying to prove me wrong. My email is full of letters from that already. |
| Posted by: McGonagall Jul 9 2003, 10:33 PM |
| Well...one thing...why don't you guys have your own site for the Gutter, huh? Decent behavior is expected of everyone around here....and everytime..something always happen once there's a compromise... |
| Posted by: Kiara_Draten Jul 9 2003, 10:34 PM |
| Anyone else noticed people who used to be friends now hate each other because of this? Either way, with or without the Gutter, theres going to be a load of angry people. But they will have to get over it, for either situation. |
| Posted by: Bobby Malone Jul 9 2003, 10:36 PM |
| i vote no, i think it's a waste of the site |
| Posted by: Jinx Jul 9 2003, 10:37 PM |
| I think Professor Dumbledore is going to be surprised about how intense the posts are on this thread. The man paying the bill has the power. It was nice of Admin to ask but in the end he will make the choice. We need the band width for VH, not other things. With the number of young people on this site with enomous amount of computer time, I still suggest the gutter be out of VH and moved into another site. Sort of like adult book stores do. |
| Posted by: McGonagall Jul 9 2003, 10:37 PM |
| I don't hate anyone because of this..disappointment is more of the word.... I still love AJ and most of them..but highly disappointed and tired of it... |
| Posted by: Seb_Darwin Jul 9 2003, 10:38 PM |
| Hate is such a strong emotion. We're just having a difference in thoughts, that's all. |
| Posted by: Jinx Jul 9 2003, 10:42 PM |
| We will agree to disagree. Friends are not good friends if they can't agree to disagree. I am sure if alex was here, her opinion would be different then mine. I feel sure that Admin will make the decision on what is best for the site. We will all have to support that decision.(and still do hw) |
| Posted by: ShelleyBeachdweller Jul 9 2003, 10:53 PM |
| Another thing...I originally joined this site so Shelley could act like Hermione and pretend to be at Hogwarts and I won't even let her look at the screen when I'm here because you never know what's going to scroll across the screen!! She's only 9, but can read at lightning speed. I think the Gutter only encourages 'icky' behavior and the students, if they have the time for The Gutter, should spend more time on their homework. And I can't count on one hand the times I've gone to chat and seen a girl or two 'advertising her wares' to all boys in chat. It's disgusting. I usually leave my cookies and milk and run away back to my kitchen and pretend I didn't see anything. Mom B  PS...I LOVE EVERYBODY!! I JUST DON'T LIKE PEOPLE BEING WEIRD...  |
| Posted by: rosa_tyve Jul 9 2003, 11:02 PM |
| i think the gutter is great and it should stay. granted, it's big, but that's the great thing about it. it's part of v.h. and i would really miss it if shut down. truth be told, it's one of the reasons i keep coming back. it's great! it's a place where a bunch of people can go and be silly. that's all. don't get ride of it please!! ~rosa tyve~ |
| Posted by: Adrianna Lupin Jul 9 2003, 11:17 PM |
| Now, I don't want to make any enemies or anything, but I just wanted to state my opinion. I have nothing against the "Gutter Court" themselves, but exposing the children that log on here to such...antics is just, well, not good. I'm 14 years old, and I think it's quite disgusting to read about these "dares" and all the other things that have gone on outside the locked forum. As Seb Darwin, I belive, pointed out, they had the privliege and they abused it. The great Dumbledore giveth, and the great Dumbledore taketh away. If the adults on the site think having a forum for adults is a good idea, why not check out Mom B's idea for the "Retro Room"? Good, clean fun! If the adults on the site wish to talk about dirty things, why not PM each other? There's plenty of other places to do that other than here, where minors can be corrupted. A. Lupin P.S. I love you too, Mom B! *hugs* |
| Posted by: Seb_Darwin Jul 9 2003, 11:39 PM |
| Rosa, if you wanted to be silly, you could easilly do it in the Third Floor .. but as your silly and all OUR silly are completely different...... Really, you got the gutter so none of your "silly"ness gets out to us here who don't want it, so why?! I don't get it. You got what you wanted, your own gutter. Is this the case of "Grass is greener on the other side"??! ... Yeah it was me, Adrianna.. |
| Posted by: Kittie Jul 9 2003, 11:52 PM |
| why is everyone getting on each other and contradicting their opinions?! this is exactly why im not going into my decision! why can't people believe what they want without about 3 people leaping all over them, telling them how their beliefs are wrong?! |
| Posted by: Sariss Jul 9 2003, 11:57 PM |
| Mum Beachdweller, you're my hero! And Rosa... *wants to say something that would do the gutter court proud* ... as a matter of fact the word I want to use has been used various times in a certain thread in North Tower. Apparently real life has become too busy for you to make tiny little attendance posts. But is has not become too busy for you to return to the gutter. As to being silly... I don't know... I struck me that we were silly enough in our various RPs... If you have no better argument pro-gutter than "It's where I can be silly (hem hem) and it's the reason I'm coming back", then I really pity you. Because if the only thing that you value on this site is the gutter and everything related to it, you're not even aware of how many things you're missing out on. |
| Posted by: Kittie Jul 9 2003, 11:59 PM |
| *Kittie repeats her last post. |
| Posted by: Weegie Jul 10 2003, 12:00 AM |
| I think the gutter should stay up as long as gutter talk stays in the gutter. I did see the point's taken off for the gutter being brought up in the chat, but points were already taken off for that and I think that the students learned their lesson and will keep gutter talk in the gutter. Plus, people who find the gutter offensive should just stay away from it. No one is asking them to go there or read the posts that they make, it's just common sence to stay away from it if you find it disturbing. I voted for the gutter to stay. Weegie |
| Posted by: Professor Faith Tiernay Jul 10 2003, 12:04 AM | ||
| I have not yet answered this poll, however I am currently in a mindset that would probably have me put "Don't care." But that is not because I don't care. I cannot decide if the Gutter should remain or leave, because there are pros and cons to the situation. The truth is that I really do care, but I can see either side of this debate. On one hand, we see the the Gutter Court members defending their right to do this at the site. They say as long as it's kept in a locked forum, it's okay. They say that it's just for acting silly, making jokes and the likes. And I can see that though they may use sexual terms and provocative language, they do not mean it seriously--as in, they would never mean anything by "snogging" someone, or the likes. On the other hand, we see quite a lot of students who are apalled at the Gutter. It is not canon to the Harry Potter books, and not exactly appropriate for a site that should be for all ages. Also, many people here are saying that the Gutter is alright as long as it's contained in the forum. It is not being contained in that forum. What happened in the chat last night is NOT the first time this has happened, it is the THIRD time! Thinking over the evidence, I'd have to agree that the Gutter has gotten out of hand. I think that if you would like to have the Gutter, go on--but take it from VH. Create a Yahoo group, or make a Tripod website for it, but don't bring it here to VH where young eyes are subjected to that sort of thing constantly. About what happened in the chat: I'd like to add to this a fact that has been quite overlooked by everyone in this debate. I'm not happy about it, and I'm certainly not proud of it. I myself was there in the chat at the time all of this happened, and yes I did see everything that went on. The difference, however, between myself and Hagrid and Professor Villareal, is that I did not put a stop to anything in the chat. I didn't think about what I was allowing to happen. But now looking back upon everything that happened, I can see how truly wrong it was. Perhaps, if I had put a stop to it at the time, Slytherin might have 225 more points--maybe not. Maybe it wouldn't have ended. I know that when Professor Villareal arrived in the room, it took a while for her orders to take effect on the members in the chat. But whether I could have stopped it or not, I feel partly to blame here. I apologize to everyone for not putting a stop to it. I need to remember: this is a children's site. Children as young as Shelley Beachdweller, age 9, peruse the corridors of VH. Students, I will however not take the whole blame for this situation. While I did not enforce the rules upon you as I rightly should have, you know the rules. You know there should be no Gutter in the chat. If anyone wants to defend that the Gutter is simply a place to "act silly", as Rosa said, I would 100% disagree with you. I was there the night, before VH, when the Gutter was invented. I tell you now, the Gutter is not made for innocent jokes. If you're still not convinced, I can quote the things that happened last night in the chat that happened--most certainly not innocent. I will add again, though, that I do take part blame for this. In review of everything that has been said and done, I will once again apologize for not putting a stop to what was happening in the chat. But I must also now put "No" for my answer to this poll--The Gutter was fine at first, contained and made only for those who willfully put that material before their own eyes. But it has grown, and it's time to put an end to it. ~*Faith Tiernay*~ P.S. Rosa, if I may quote you--
If being silly is the profane things that happened last night, I don't want it in VH. |
| Posted by: Seb_Darwin Jul 10 2003, 12:07 AM |
| Weegie - bit late for it STAYING in the gutter, don't you think? |
| Posted by: Snape Jul 10 2003, 12:12 AM |
| In my opinion, as long as the gutter does not exced its boundaries, it should stay. it is just like SLASH – if you don’t like it, don’t read it. in the same vein, if you don’t want to experience the gutter, don’t go in there. As long as gutterishness remains in its proper place (take note Rosa, Darcie, kittie Cash and Jennifer) then I see no problem. As long as it can be enforced, would you rather such dirty happenings punctuated the site or just one small corner where only those who wanted to read it would? Professor Snape |
| Posted by: Weegie Jul 10 2003, 12:14 AM |
| Ga! Hey, don't get mad at me, I don't use the chat, I was simply saying what was on my mind at the time, you don't need to throw a fit! But after reading the Professors post I'm also leaning towards the nuetral side. EVERYONE who participated in the chat incident did lose points from it, and I've seen how sorry they are with what they did. Maybe you all like to ignore others asking forgiveness, but I don't! Sorry that I look over the whole thing as a learning experience for the gutter stuff to stay in the gutter. Sheesh! |
| Posted by: Lockore Jul 10 2003, 12:15 AM |
| Hands down, I think the gutter has no place on this website. Take a look at the affects it is having! I've got a class mate wearing a dress for crying out loud! I don't know how much it is related to the gutter or not, I don't want to know either. The recent events in the great hall sealed their doom. I know there may be complaints about many people having to pay for the actions of the few, and that it isn't fair. My only response is that life isn't fair! The real world does not work that way! They were given their own forum, but things went beyond it, so it's too bad. Ignoring it will not make the problem go away, nor will giving them what they want. As any historian could tell you, that's exactly what was done before WWII. It was thought that if Hitler was given what he wanted, that would be the end of it. For anyone who slept through that lesson in school, it didn't work! Concessions that were made to Hitler during peace-time, made it a lot easier for him to get what he wanted once war finally broke out. Don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing members of the gutter, or its court, to Hitler. The point I'm trying to make is that appeasement will not work. They will keep coming back for a little bit more, again and again. Though no one stepped forward then, I'm going to do so right now. I say enough is enough! They had their chance, but threw it away by the actions of one of their own. Those who know me will tell that I'm always fair, but a line was drawn, and it was crossed. I know all of them didn't do it, but enough did. Now they will all have to face the consequences of the actions of some of them. Do not think that I'll be glad if it goes though. It seems that some people, for some bizarre reason, enjoyed what they had there. I regret that the actions of some people, cost them that place. O.o.C. Speaking as a professional, and as one who has seen the gutter, I can say that it really isn't all that healthy. |
| Posted by: Argus Filch Jul 10 2003, 12:17 AM |
| Severus has a valid point. With the gutter, there is a place for people to post things that are not normally allowed in polite coversation. If we were to disband it, wouldn't that simply prompt them to post elsewhere on the site. At least presently they can be moderated in a closed enviroment. |
| Posted by: Cimber Metallus Jul 10 2003, 12:19 AM |
| Basically, I don't care. All I want to happen is that the people have done these offensive things get what they should. |
| Posted by: Professor_Villareal Jul 10 2003, 12:20 AM |
| Surprise, surpise, I voted no. Perhaps I should explain why. Being one of the few people on this site who is actually over the age of 21, the legal age of adulthood, I feel that I have some opinions on the gutter. First, I don't care what you are into offsite. I don't care about sexual orientation, whatever. You have every right to live your life the way you choose. The same for onsite, if there is a same sex couple here, so be it. Date, court, and have a good time. I'm glad you've found one another. The Gutter is not about this. It is about tasteless jokes, loaded with sexual innuendo, and inappropriate ideas for a PG site. That is the point and always has been. This is a PG site, and the very connotation of the word gutter often means "dirty, disgusting and unclean." But in the wisdom and patience that I obviously lack, Hagrid and Headmaster Dumbledore saw fit to create a locked forum for the people who inhabit the gutter, where they can continue to have their fun and protect the younger children of this site. I've came to understand that what Hagrid and the Headmaster had done was indeed wise. And that gutter had seemingly disappeared from the chat. So yesterday, when I entered chat as Professor Vi, I was extremely angry. What most do not realize that my alter ego, a student here, was already logged in, and so they had seen everything that had been in fact going on. My only regret is that I did not intervene sooner. I apologize for that. I was in part hopeful that maybe they would stop. And part worried about stepping on another Professor's toes, who was in fact present. The ones involved claimed that they didn't this chat was official, and thought they were allowed. And so I felt bad for them, and I wasn't going to take off any points. Except for the 15 off from Casseus for his smart mouth. But then, I began to think about it and I changed my mind. I'll tell you why. This stuff about the chat not being "official" is what got me. When I came in the chat, one of the members said a swear word, and indicated that they knew they would have to quit now that I was there. That told me that they knew they were wrong. And that they just hoped they wouldn't get caught. So then I changed my mind, and I decided to take the points. I discussed it with Hagrid, and he gave me the go ahead. I am tired of this. I'm tired of coming into the chat worried about having to take off points for inappropriate things. I'm tired of being treated like the bad guy, or the big meanie. When they have a locked forum where they play gutter until their heart is content. The rule was, keep it OUT OF THE CHAT and OUT OF THE OTHER FORUMS. I like to think of myself as a fair and empathetic person. But I guess I'm not. I have taken points away before for this. 'And then I was "overreacting or being too harsh." You know the rules, you break the rules. You pay the price. End of story. If you can't control yourself and keep that type of behavior in one little forum...then how sad are you. If they can KEEP their garbage to themselves, then please keep the Gutter, but so far they have proven that they can NOT. |
| Posted by: Seb_Darwin Jul 10 2003, 12:24 AM |
| I agree Professor Villareal! Some gutter members have had more than 2 warnings already. It's proof enough that they can't keep it in the Gutter, and thats why it was made!!! To stay IN there! |
| Posted by: Sariss Jul 10 2003, 12:25 AM | ||
I believe you're missing the point, Professor. With all due respect... It is blatantly obvious that the gutter exceeds its bounderies on a regular basis. Remember how many times points were taken away? Remember the suspensions? Remember how you ranted at Rosa and Darcie? I think it's a bit rich coming from you now that you're actually defending the gutter. And it's not like people could avoid the gutter. Face it. But then again, maybe you're terribly biased (for various reasons whose mentionings would be extremely low blows now) when it comes to the gutter? I dare you to take points away from me for saying this, because--as I've stated in various threads all over this place--if certain people don't care about house points, why should I? I'd also be very willing to serve a cruel detention that would do Umbridge proud, just to prove my point. |
| Posted by: McGonagall Jul 10 2003, 12:29 AM |
| And I will happily serve the cruel attention for Sariss..or would people rather take me to a corner and whip me while the professors and other students watch and attempt to ignore? you choose. yes..the dark secrets of VH....I get whipped as a punishment for being a bad professor.. |
| Posted by: Jennifer_Royal Jul 10 2003, 12:34 AM |
| I give up, i really do. s much as i love the gutter it's up to dumbledore. And i will respect your choice. Jennifer Royal |
| Posted by: Lockore Jul 10 2003, 12:38 AM |
| Lockore steps near to Professor McGonagall. Standing straight, he is an imposing sight indeed as there are many upper level students who have to look up to look him in the eyes. "Anyone even considering such a thing would have to go through me. Nor will I listen to others call her a "bad professor." |
| Posted by: Miriam Shumilova Jul 10 2003, 12:39 AM |
| I agree with Jenni. It would be nice to take away the gutter but as she said...let dumbledore decide. |
| Posted by: Snape Jul 10 2003, 12:46 AM |
| But what i am trying to say is this: Cigarettes are a real problem in western society. But if you ban smoking, you would only experience more problems with black market dealing and the like. It is better that we kep the guuter and have a zero tolerance policy on those who bring the gutter outside its walls than have no gutter and puddles of smut around the site. (Sariss take note that i have just expelled Darcie from Slytherin) |
| Posted by: Sebastian Kafka Jul 10 2003, 12:51 AM |
| *Sebastian Kafka agrees with Snape (OOC poor Darcie!! what will happen to her?) |
| Posted by: Sariss Jul 10 2003, 12:55 AM |
| I doubt that ZERO TOLERANCE will work. I mean, just take into account everything that's happened. People being rewarded for spreading the gutter all over the place with a forum all to themselves. And they didn't even realize that it was a privilege! I'll stop now. I've been ranting since 10 am. Now it's 1 am. I haven't done anything else but demolish stupid argumentations as to the positive effect of the gutter (because there are absolutely none). The gutter people (and I'm labelling you guys fully on purpose now) have proven quite convicingly that they're not mature enough to have a forum for adults to themselves. I leave it to the powers that are to decide whether this is acceptable. PS: I'd say that we already have a black-market situation here... PPS: I registered that you expelled Darcie. |
| Posted by: Snape Jul 10 2003, 12:59 AM |
| Darcie's expulsion from Slytherin is just the beginning of Zero Tolerance. Keep the gutter........expel the perpetrators...once people realise the serious consequences of their ctions, they may be a litte more thoughtful when it comes to unloadig their minds.... Professor Snape |
| Posted by: Miriam Shumilova Jul 10 2003, 12:59 AM |
| Miriam sighs at Seb and agrees with Sariss |
| Posted by: Rysa Evans Jul 10 2003, 01:00 AM | ||
Professor Snape, We DO have the zero tolerance policy. That is why this is happening in the first place. The people who got certain privileges did not cherish them correctly. If we had strictly followed the policy, I do not believe this would have occurred the 3rd time. And in this Western society and also in Asian countries, smoking in public is banned due to its health hazards. I hope I need not to elaborate on my point in following your example in smoking. Obviously, I have voted "No", with every single cell of mine behind the decision. And I will continue to be with Professor McGonagall, Mother Beachdweller, Professor Villareal, Azraele Malfoy, Alison Fitcher, Seb Darwin and Sariss Ravon. |
| Posted by: Sebastian Kafka Jul 10 2003, 01:01 AM |
| whats the sighing for? I've done nothing wrong. And I stand by that |
| Posted by: Snape Jul 10 2003, 01:02 AM |
| you can smoke in public in england here's a "better" example smoking in Heathrow airport is banned, except for in designated "smoking" rooms. Therefore you are only damaging your and other smoker's health when partaking in a cigarette. Result = happy smokers + happy non-smokers. See? |
| Posted by: Miriam Shumilova Jul 10 2003, 01:14 AM |
| But if stuff leaks out from the guttter then it should be banned. Having a forum like that is a privilge and it has been abused. |
| Posted by: Snape Jul 10 2003, 01:16 AM |
| ban the people that leak breach the walls of the gutter, and problem solved. |
| Posted by: Rysa Evans Jul 10 2003, 01:18 AM | ||
I'm sorry if I am being a dunderhead, sir. But I fail to "see". And perhaps I need to elaborate. Here is a "better" version of my elaboration. No, actually, I just need to present a model. Keeping the smoking inside the smoking room = Keeping the Gutterish stuff in Gutter This didn't work too well so far, did it? I repeat myself, this would not have happened if what this has been happening all along. |
| Posted by: Professor Faith Tiernay Jul 10 2003, 01:18 AM |
| So Severus, what you're suggesting by that is that if we keep the Gutter contained, then everyone is happy. But as you see by the results of this poll and by the events that have happened before and did last night, it's like if everyone smoked in public instead of using the rooms, even though they were expressly asked to remain within them. The Gutter is no longer contained, Severus, and there's no use in pretending it can be--The members have already proven themselves that they can't keep it within an entire FORUM they have to themselves. |
| Posted by: Seb_Darwin Jul 10 2003, 01:19 AM |
| quite frankly, smoking has nothing to do with the gutter. They were warned more than three times. They still went out and disobayed the rules. They knew what would happen, and it's happened. I don't know if they're seeing how far they can push, but they know it all should stay in there. Back to your smoking, if, inthe airport they went outside of the smoking zone, they would be told to stop smoking. If it was a shopping centre *how off topic here..* and no one was taking the smoking rules seriously, they'd ban it full stop. |
| Posted by: Miriam Shumilova Jul 10 2003, 01:19 AM |
| if you ban the people that leak out of the gutter... there will hardly be any memebers left of the gutter... so therefore... shut it down. |
| Posted by: Tanya Rose Jul 10 2003, 01:20 AM |
| I voted yes, for heavens sake everyones acting like they committed a federal offense! Its just for fun and you all are acting like its the worst thing possible. I for one think everyone is over reacting about this, i mena people are ignoring the people who talked outside the gutter adn lost ponts i for heavens sake grow up people! |
| Posted by: Miriam Shumilova Jul 10 2003, 01:23 AM |
| grow up? Dumbledore awsked for our opinon therefore we are expressing it. So there is no reason you should tell us to "grow up" |
| Posted by: Sebastian Kafka Jul 10 2003, 01:23 AM |
| not all members of the gutter 'leek' out, what happened in the chat was wrong but it wasn't the gutters fault, it didn't do to the chat and say those things. |
| Posted by: Tanya Rose Jul 10 2003, 01:24 AM |
| Im saying grow up because people who did it are being ignored because of it, there is NO excuse for that |
| Posted by: Snape Jul 10 2003, 01:25 AM | ||
Rysa......
I admit it hasn't worked so well thusfar, so that is why I am suggesting this change. Keep the gutter, in order to keep the rest of teh sire clean, and anyone who is stupid enoguht to disobey clear warnings from mods and admin can be banned to oblivian. Simple as that. |
| Posted by: Kittie Jul 10 2003, 01:26 AM |
| I'm going to say this again. In bold, since you seem to be ignoreing my first posts. KNOCK IT OFF. People have their own opinions, so why is it when they post their opinions, you have to jump all over them and contradict them? Dumbledore asked for our opinions. Not a huge debate. |
| Posted by: Snape Jul 10 2003, 01:27 AM |
| I am defending my opinion, and also, in a sense, you. |
| Posted by: McGonagall Jul 10 2003, 01:29 AM |
| NO! You don't ever dare to tell me to grow up! You have to think about the situation throughly. Excuse me? Would you want a ten year old daughter of yours PLAYING WITH HANDCUFFS WITH ONLINE PEOPLE? Are getting virtually whipped? This is not over the people in the first place. It is about the GUTTER AND WHETHER IT SHOULD STAY, LITTLE GIRL. They haven't commited a federal offense..but they are going to harm something I love and some others love to..and thats VH..and if you don't like it, make a different site for your whip cream and chains. VH is important to it and I will not let the Gutter ruin it. NEVER. I don't want it to harm any of this site's repuataion. Furthermore, again and again, they have crossed the lines. Overreacting? Yeah, come on, CALL ME HARSH AND EVIL. I gotten it from people before. You know why? BECAUSE ITS THE TRUTH. They don't accept that they are wrong so they put blame on others. I adore VH and if you truly love VH then you will be doing something worthwhile and choose the right decision.... I do not want to see this site under Mature Content when I search on Google.... You want me to grow up, right? So let's see.... How about I act like a Gutter..that is what maturity calls for I suppose. *gets whipped* |
| Posted by: Tanya Rose Jul 10 2003, 01:32 AM |
| Oh no, Im nnot saying the Gutter is mature, because I dont htink its meant to be. What is however immature, is the fact that people are baing ignored for what they did, anyone heard the phrase forgive and forget. Someone once told me that this place was for fun and for people to loosen up Gutter is the same thing, it fun for adults, |
| Posted by: Professor Faith Tiernay Jul 10 2003, 01:33 AM |
| Excuse me Tanya, but you are telling US who do not want there to be a place for perverted and profane comments about sexuality to be here at a children's site that WE need to grow up?! Go to the Gutter and examine a few of the last threads there, then tell me who's more mature: Us sitting here trying to make this a cleaner site, or you making comments about body parts and sexual jokes! |
| Posted by: Hagrid Jul 10 2003, 01:34 AM | ||
I'm willing to wager you are a staunch believer in "guns don't kill people, people kill people"  |
| Posted by: McGonagall Jul 10 2003, 01:35 AM |
| WE AREN'T IGNORING THEM. GET THAT THROUGH! We are debating whether the Gutter should remain or not. Jeez |
| Posted by: Rysa Evans Jul 10 2003, 01:35 AM | ||
Miss Rose, I really see no reason to "grow up" according to your reasons. Perhaps I need to be enlightened. |
| Posted by: Professor_Villareal Jul 10 2003, 01:36 AM |
| *Professor_Villareal feels very old and very tired. All right, if we can't discuss nicely without personal attacks then we shouldn't be discussing this at all. Ms. Rose, by telling people to "grow up" shows about the same amount of maturity you claim the people that others aren't affording to the "gutter people who lost points" People can discuss, and defend their arguments. People have a right to ignore who they choose, that is why that button exists. This is a pointless argument. If you have an opinion or if you are defending an opinion post here. But lay off the personal attacks, and telling people to "grow up." Thank you. |
| Posted by: Sebastian Kafka Jul 10 2003, 01:37 AM | ||
I'm afraid you would have lost that bet my dear man. I am horribly opposed to guns and violence and bombs. Its one of the main things I abhore. My life has been ripped apart enough by violence. |
| Posted by: McGonagall Jul 10 2003, 01:38 AM |
| *McGonagall sighs and sits down a bit on her sore butt from gettin whipped. "Honestly..how can these children do these things..." |
| Posted by: Hagrid Jul 10 2003, 01:39 AM |
| But it wasn't the gun's fault Sebastian, it didn't ask to be used. There is always someone pulling the trigger. Is it not them solely responsible for the destruction caused by the weapon? |
| Posted by: Rysa Evans Jul 10 2003, 01:40 AM | ||||
*Rysa Evans blinks in confusion. I must have missed something again, Professor. I see no change. The policy has been that way, just not enforced properly. I am not sure if I am willing to count on the strict enforcement again. |
| Posted by: Professor Faith Tiernay Jul 10 2003, 01:40 AM |
The things you can do armed with RAGING HORMONES, Minnie!  |
| Posted by: Snape Jul 10 2003, 01:42 AM |
| What I am trying to say, Rysa is that now is the time to pull up our socks and bust the people who dont abide with school rules (i/e/ Darcie no longer resides in Slytherin) Professor Snape |
| Posted by: Sebastian Kafka Jul 10 2003, 01:44 AM | ||
i agree my good man, but then how did the person choose that action in the first place? were there pressure from sociaty that forced them? was it their 'fate' to commit these acts? if their is an onipotent god should they have stepping in and stoped the destrustion? I am not disagreeing with you about the gun thing, i am meerly saying that things are more complicated then they seem. (OOC I've got all angry now (not with you Hagrid)  grrr to stupid people who plant bombs in buildings next to me when i was little...) |
| Posted by: Tanya Rose Jul 10 2003, 01:45 AM |
| Ok whatever, after being called little girl, Im gonna forget even trying to say anything because Im obviously not gonna be heard One of my friends said that she is being ignored by her house mates, sent hate mail and told snide remarks about how she should get off the site that she's worthless to it and if she knows what good for her toleave ,whether you beileve me or not I beileve her , and that is just stupid and cruel no matter what you guys say As for the whole gutter thing I think this whole hub bub is silly, but its your peoples choice, all Im saying is that when you tell someone NOT to do something what generally happens? they do it anyway os I dont think it will remedy the situation it might just make it worse Ive said my dues and thown my ideas out, whether or nto you wanna listen me, hear it is |
| Posted by: Hagrid Jul 10 2003, 01:49 AM |
| Very true Sebastian, things are always more difficult to figure out than they would appear to be at first glance... So, that being said, let's put the gun metaphor away for the moment. What is it, you feel, that was the motivating factor in the actions that people took last night? |
| Posted by: Sebastian Kafka Jul 10 2003, 01:57 AM |
| I cannot speak for them as I was not there, But I feel that they got out of hand, something I now feel they regret terribly. I don't think 'extreme gutterishness' has a place at VH but most of the stuff that actually happens in the guter is harmles when it is confined to the gutter, the last thing I posted in their was in the terrible jokes thread! As for what happened last night in the chat, I don't really know what to say because I don't know what happened, motivating factor? I think they were just having fun, it got out of hand, |
| Posted by: Hagrid Jul 10 2003, 02:03 AM |
| You needn't inform me what does or does not go on in the gutter, I have the password and can come and go as I please. Having fun that got out of hand... yes, I can assure you that that was indeed what happened. I was in the chat while everything was happening. So people's goal last night was to have fun. Are there not any other ways to have fun without resorting to activities which are against the rules? What was the influencing factor in causing them to choose that particular avenue of fun? |
| Posted by: Miriam Shumilova Jul 10 2003, 02:07 AM |
| ugh! SEB! fun!? you call being dirty fun? this is a HARRY potter site. do you know any other harry potter site that has a section for gutterness? for snape: having a smoking section in a resturant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool |
| Posted by: Rysa Evans Jul 10 2003, 02:09 AM | ||
I am grateful that the head of a House finally feels so strongly about the zero tolerance rule now. I have long been hoping for it. I will consider this as your permission to fully count on you from now on, sir. And I personally wish this had happened sooner so that I didn't need to hear an insult towards Hufflepuff. Good thing Professor Sinistra took care of it and we've gotten apologizes. |
| Posted by: Sebastian Kafka Jul 10 2003, 02:12 AM |
| ahh I'm not speaking for them remember, I don't know what their motives were or what happened for that matter, (I just like debating ) These things can happen with just one suggestion, I know it should have been confined to the gutter, but its too late for that now. It has happened and with all that has happened in its wraith i really don't think anything of a simular nature will be occuring again. I know they shouldn't have floaunted the rules. I am sorry they did and I am sorry for my actions in the great hall yesterday, I also know that appologies sometimes aren't enough, but believe me after what happened to Darcie and all the hate mail in PM's and not to mention emails some of them have been recieving alot of the gutter members are considering leaving VH so it may not even be a promlem, although I hope it is not the case that people leave over this. *sigh* |
| Posted by: Sebastian Kafka Jul 10 2003, 02:15 AM | ||
yes i do but I won't mention them here, I didn't mena it in a huge way, they were just talking to each other, which was fun, and it got out of hand. You can hardly talk Miriam, before all this happened you were begging me for the gutter pass word.  |
| Posted by: Miriam Shumilova Jul 10 2003, 02:19 AM |
| as i told you seb.... i'm a hypocrite and i changed my mind fully plus i wasn't begging i was simply asking cause i wanted to know what the gutter was all about. |
| Posted by: Hagrid Jul 10 2003, 02:20 AM | ||
Perhaps I can make their decision a bit easier for them by voting: yes, I would like the Gutter removed. |
| Posted by: Professor Longbottom Jul 10 2003, 02:24 AM |
| It simply isn't my cup of tea at all. |
| Posted by: Sebastian Kafka Jul 10 2003, 02:25 AM |
| not because of the gutter leaving, but by the actions of those they considered friends. One slytherin recieved 8 anonymous emails I belive, none of them very complimentary I can tell you, and she wasn't even in the thick of what happened in the chat. I just don't like the way people can act towards each other, it can be extremly damaging, more then people realise, when people tell them over and over again that they are 'worthless' and things that I won't put here. |
| Posted by: AlliePotter Jul 10 2003, 02:28 AM |
| I voted in the either way area because I am not too sure on the thing. I was never affected by any wrong doings so I have no reason to be against it and yet I am not active in it so I can't say I support it. Whatever is decided is ok with me, I just hope people remain with VH and don't leave over this issue. I hope everything works out either way and that people aren't to offended by either outcome possible. |
| Posted by: Monica_Moctezuma Jul 10 2003, 02:35 AM |
| I'm very sorry to hear people are treating each other that way. Hate mail, especially anonymous hate mail is cowardly and unacceptable. Yes, some people seriously misbehaved, but they have been/are being punished. And the further existence of the gutter is being debated. Express your opinion, then let the teachers handle it. Let's treat each other with some respect. If we don't, this site's not going to be much fun anymore. |
| Posted by: Persephone Blackwing Jul 10 2003, 02:39 AM | ||
now, i only saw about the first 3,4 pages of last night's incident. i have stated my view before, and i would now like to say i agree with snape. his point on smoking was very true. and he also said something along the lines of keep the gutter as it means stuff will stay out of chat (i'm pretty sure). now, in my experience, making something forbidden only increases the appeal. yes, people behaved inappropriately, yes they didn't keep it to the gutter, however it should stay as it is. and i agree with the last part of seb's comment. he's right. |
| Posted by: Rowena Feline Jul 10 2003, 03:07 AM |
| As a shopkeeper doing my best to serve Hogwarts, I voted "No" on this particular matter. VH is a school, and I hope it stays that way for years to come. |
| Posted by: Professor_Villareal Jul 10 2003, 03:07 AM | ||||
*Professor_Villareal agrees full heartedly with Hagrid. Hear, hear. |
| Posted by: Sebastian Kafka Jul 10 2003, 03:13 AM | ||||||
I would just like to say, as Hagrids original quote was from me, people aren't considering leaving because of the gutter but because of the actions of people they considered friends, One slytherin recieved 8 anonymous 'hate' emails I belive not to mention PM's, none of them very complimentary I can tell you, and she wasn't even in the thick of what happened in the chat. I just don't like the way people can act towards each other, it can be extremly damaging, more then people realise, when people tell them over and over again that they are 'worthless' and things that I won't put here. It is not a case of the gutter to me now, frankly with all the hoohar thats has been raised, maybe it will be better if it goes,  I'm just amazed at the actions of fellow students. |
| Posted by: Rayya Jul 10 2003, 03:16 AM |
| I'm staying out of it. If I start, I could be here all day. |
| Posted by: Sariss Jul 10 2003, 04:05 AM |
| I've been here all day, Rayya. I doubt you could add anything that hasn't been repeated ad nauseam already... |
| Posted by: A_Dragonsbaby Jul 10 2003, 04:15 AM |
| i think the gutter should stay.. |
| Posted by: Samantha Prewett Jul 10 2003, 04:17 AM |
| As a professor and frankly a mad old bat, I can not say that I approve of the gutter, however as long as it is contained I see no reason not to let the older students.... do what they do, so long as it is supervised and STAYS contained. I have voted yes, however, so far it has not STAYED in the locked forum that was created for it, unless this changes I will not continue my support of this cause. ~Carpe Diem~ Professor Prewett |
| Posted by: Harriet White Jul 10 2003, 04:25 AM |
| My Opinion is no.The Gutter is spreading out of the locked forum.This is supposed to be a PG rated site,and I dont think whips and whipped cream and handcuffs are very PG.There are many young children on the site,I being one of them,is startled by things related to the Gutter.There are plenty of websites out on the net that except things such as the Gutter,so I suggest you create a website about the gutter.Please do not try and force me into saying yes,this is just my opinion. |
| Posted by: Coraline Jul 10 2003, 05:13 AM |
| As a member of the gutter, I'd love it to stay, but it was more fun when it was small and exclusive. It just sort of feels like everyone's trying to get in on the act now. Promiscuity does not equal maturity, people! Just the opposite, really... |
| Posted by: Kathryn Jul 10 2003, 05:18 AM |
| I agree with Harriets opinion and I voted no. THIS IS A PG SITE! Do you think whips, handcuffs and whipped cream is PG rated?!?!?!?!?! There are young children at this site, and exposing this stuff on the chat and on the boards is wrong! The amin. spends a lot of money running this and you have to do crap like that! I really hope the gutter is taken away. There are plenty of sites like the gutter why dont you join them instead of bringing it here to VH! Also I don't care if people are going to hate me or anything this is my opinion and its gonna stay the way it is! |
| Posted by: Hagrid Jul 10 2003, 05:55 AM |
| I feel that at this time I must defend the Gutter, as it has taking a veritable shellacking today. The Gutter was originally started some months ago by AJ Archer, as she wished to have a place to call her own here at VH. It's purpose was not to be a place where people were free to do whatever they pleased, but instead a place where people of a similiar mind could share inside jokes. Unfortunately, we ran into trouble right off the bat. The main location for the Gutter originally was in the first chat VH ever had, and it rapidly took over, encouraging many people to act in a manner that was disrespectful towards other students and professors. Through no fault of AJ's, the gutter quickly spiraled out of control. Several specific users abused the idea of the Gutter to the point that they were banned from the site. But that in and of itself caused a ruckus the likes of which have only been topped this very day. Without going into precise specifics, I had three Professors threaten to quit, two of them actually doing so, and a petition goodness knows how long in the Great Hall asking for the banned individual to be reinstated. After this, all was quiet on the Gutter front for a while. A thread was started for it in the Third Floor Corridor, despite the fact that absolutely nothing in there had to do with role playing. Everybody was happy for a while, but ugliness again reared its ugly head. Though I do not recall the exact incident, something prompted me to ban the Gutter from VH entirely. I closed the thread and banned any talk of the Gutter in the chat. This, surprisingly, caused very little uproar from the VH community. Hardly anyone missed it other than AJ, who was understandably very depressed. As a personal favor to AJ, and for no other reason, I allowed the Gutter to come back onto the boards under the very direct stipulation that she place a warning at the beginning of the thread, and that there be no further discussion of the Gutter in the chat room. Once again everything was well and good. But soon everybody wanted a piece of the gutter. There were inquiries from people of all ages into whether or not they could join, and as a result of people joining who were substantially less mature (and thus unable to handle the responsibility of keeping themselves in check), the content of the Gutter went from innuendo to full on frontal nudity. At this time, I approached AJ about setting up a private forum for the Gutter. This was my idea, I take the blame for it. She was all right with the idea, and actually was pretty excited about it. I forwarded my go ahead on to Dumbledore, who obliged willingly. The password was given to AJ, and she let people in as she saw fit. Which brings us to the current situation. The Gutter forum, locked as it is, was intended to keep the nastier elements (and don't try to tell me that they aren't nastier elements) away from the general public. To a certain extent it succeeded, but in a far broader sense, it failed miserably. The content in student's signatures alone is far more than a PG rating would ever allow, let alone their behavior. Two students were suspended for making out in the Astronomy tower, A large amount of points were taken off a group in the chat a few weeks ago for having a conversation about the gutter and for doing gutterish things, and then the same thing happened last night. I just realized something... I started this post as a way of demonstrating that the Gutter is not really as bad as everyone makes it out to be, but failing that, I have succeeded in convincing myself just why I want it gone in the first place. The truth of the matter is it isn't really all that bad, but since it has been here it has been nothing but a thorn in the side of this site. I have attempted in every way possible to make the site's goals and The Gutter cooperate with each other, but I no longer believe that this is possible. For too long I have tried to accomodate everyone's wishes fully realizing that it just isn't possible to do so, but now I feel that the time has come to do what is best for the website... I must ask that Dumbledore remove the Gutter. -Hagrid |
| Posted by: Coraline Jul 10 2003, 07:29 AM |
| I suppose that's the last word then. Guess we have to spread it now. |
| Posted by: commanderlooney Jul 10 2003, 08:32 AM |
| I believe this is driving a rift down the student population, but i have to say, as i was there in the chat last night and being quite new to the site, the things i saw, were to put it lightly, distasteful. I would say that keeping it locked up is fine and that it should stay, but please remember, we already have enough people hating Harry Potter as it is, religous fanatics and others, and whther you like it or not, while you're on this site, you represent a part of not only virtual hogwarts but of JK Rowlings entire world to others. What happens if the password leaks out again and a child gets a hold of it? and then before you know it it's on the news that a site promoting Rowlings world allowed such things to happen? I know its the worst case scnario and it might not ever happen. But my point is this, the things that overflow out of the gutter don't belong, if the gutter wishes to continue, which i'm sure it will, it just needs to move to a different site, where those who enjoy it may use it to their fullest extent. Wouldn't those people also like the fact that there's not professors breathing down their backs all the time anyway? Have those that wish to continue the gutter do so, please, there are many here who wish it to, but do not let it continue to share the same bandwidth as VH. thanks. sorry it was so long. |
| Posted by: Cien Mashuga Jul 10 2003, 09:05 AM |
| Well said, Hagrid. |
| Posted by: Professor_Sinistra Jul 10 2003, 11:39 AM |
| I think it is pretty common knowledge on what my stance is pertaining to the Gutter. Firstly, let me make it clear that I hold no grudges against the people who wish to cavort in the Gutter and relish in meaningless posts tinged with sexual nuances, which make them sound as if they were 15. (No offence to you 15 year olds out there; 15 is a common age to associate with raging hormones and sexual frustration). I do however hold a grudge against people posting or chatting about it. I have no time for people who share their sexual exploits and wishes in public and people who seem to gain some kind of sexual gratification from it. However, your behaviour is considered normal, and yes, it is considered the norm to openly discuss such feelings, desires and wishes to friends, lovers, etc. It is, however, not acceptable on this site. I admit, I was once part of the Gutter. A long time ago, when it was formed, it was harmless fun. I left shortly after people began incorperating sado-machoism and openly declaring their 'lust' and etc. You do know what sado-machoism is commonly associated with? Paraphilias. Paraphilias are a form of sexual deviant behaviour. Now, before I start going technical on you all, I could give care less if those activities were incorporated into your every day life. But unfortunately, this is not real life. And according to Dumbledore himself, the Gutter was never intended to be used in this way. Everyone was happy either way when you got your own forum to use. That way, the people who did not want to be a part of it, did not have to see it, and the people who did want to be a part of it, could. But then it started to slowly encroach into other parts of VH. Instead of being confined to the forum, it sprung up in the form of signatures, in posts, and in the chat. I have a personal vendetta against the Gutter. I do not wish my 8 and 12 year old cousins to accidently stumble across any form of it, knowing that I could have done something to prevent them from seeing it. And before you all start whinging about how this site is for everyone, yes I agree. It is for everyone, but the reason why people come here is to RP in the world of Harry Potter. The Gutter has no relevance whatsoever to this site. I think that the point of Virtual Hogwarts has started to elude us all. Are we not here to share in a common purpose? To have fun and to enjoy ourselves? To relish the privelege that Dumbledore has provided for us free of charge? Although I may be vocal in my opinions, they really do not matter. After all, it is Dumbledore who decides the fate of this site. And please note, that I am exerting my right to express my opinion. You do not have to agree with me, you just have to respect it, just as I respect yours. I am 100% behind Hagrid. Although the gutter at first was a bit of harmless fun, it has now developed into something which has torn the VH comunity apart. And anything that threatens the harmony of this site, must eventually be purged and gotten rid of. Professor Sinistra. |
| Posted by: Spikey Jul 10 2003, 04:42 PM |
| i agree with the profeser |
| Posted by: Alison Fitcher Jul 10 2003, 05:14 PM |
| Well I would like to say that what Hagrid said was corect, and I like the gutter when it was still a place where we could share inside jokes but then everything went out of control anf got worse after it came back again. I'd like to say that I like the old gutter but as for the new one, I can't bring myself to like it at all. So I'd like to say that I voted "NO" |
| Posted by: Kittie Jul 10 2003, 06:10 PM |
| I think we should just drop this and move on. Listening to you say 'Oh, it's so much better now. Yippee da' Isn't doing anything. The people who wanted the gutter out got it. The ones who wanted the Gutter to stay, got it, but not in Vh. It's over. *Dumbledore..as the old saying goes...'It aint over till the fat admin sings'...Or something like that |