The Magic Cafe Forums - Would a real cheat write this?
Posted: Apr 30, 2004 4:23am
I don't know if someone is being sarcastic, or showing of or just arrogant here. I was looking for reviews and tables of contents for "phantoms of the cardtable" and this is a review someone wrote, I laughed because of it 
Quote:
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I would like to tell who ever might be interested in gambling to buy this here book. This book is really a 10 on a scale of 1 - 5. I know this to be true because Ive been a student of Walter Scott for over 13 years now and Im the real thing. Next to Gazzo, Im the best at this technique in the country.
Steve Forte whos the best all around cheat in the country wrote in this book that he never seen anyone do Walter Scotts punch deal in play until he met me. Since this book was already in the process of being published when he actually saw me do this technique, he couldn't change his statement.
Im the only known gambler today who actually uses Walters technique in play. don't get me wrong, other cheats do this move but they do not use Walter Scotts Punch or Technique.
So I said all that to say this, since Im one of the top 10 cheats in the country and Im living Walter Scotts life at the moment (as "The New Phantom of the Card Table)," you can take it from me, everything that he says about cheating and the life we live in this book is true.
Im sorry to say that this book is so good and informative that I don't want you to buy it because of what I do for a living; but hey, it has to be told that this is an excellent and I mean excellent book. If you cheat, you want this book on your shelf as part of your gambling collection.
Im going on record to date and saying that if anyone don't like this here book after reading it and don't think that this is true, you don't know what real gambling is and you don't know what youre talking about.
D.O.C.
Dealer of Cards
The New "Phantom of the Card Table" Has Spoken
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Do you guys think a real cheat would
a. know himself to be one of the best in the country
b. show off about it?
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JasonEngland
Loyal user
Santa Barbara, CA
249 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 4:29am
Doc is absolutely the real thing. He's a funny guy, and no doubt you've caught him tooting his own horn a bit, but make no mistake, he's for real.
A few of us on this site have seen him work, and he does some things better than almost anyone else in the world.
Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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scafidi7
Elite user
Canada
453 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 7:31am
I have had correspondence with Doc (or Dice Or Cards, as I knew it) before. Now I've never seen him or met him, but he is very knowledgeable and has helped me out a lot. He used to post video clips of some of his moves - until some one downloaded them and posted them elsewhere, against his expressed wishes. They were very good moves. I'm convinced that he's exactly what he says he is. Why? Because of detailed advice that he's provided me with on things like 2nd deals, etc. I go back to those notes all the time.
Doc tells it exactly like he sees it, which sometimes led to clashes on other web boards, but he always kept things interesting, and always helped people out when he could by offering advice, notes, etc.
I haven't heard from him for a while, so I hope he's ok! I was just wondering if he'd pop back around on the 'net sometime soon. I hope he didn't get caught, though I doubt he did.
Among other things, Doc is certainly a unique person!
T. Joseph O'Malley
T.Joseph O'Malley
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George Devol
Veteran user
362 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 7:40am
One of the best in the world.
(I wish he'd stay away from magicians).
AW
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"
--------
A magician on the Genii Forum
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scafidi7
Elite user
Canada
453 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 7:54am
(I think maybe you're getting your wish, George!)
He was good to magicians on some other boards and lists, but then someone stabbed him in the back by downloading some of his c__d de__ moves and posting them elsewhere. After he'd told people not to do so. Idiots. Haven't heard from him much since then.
T.Joseph O'Malley
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Pekka
Regular user
Finland
162 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 8:10am
What is the book he is talking about?
Cheers for help
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JordanB
Loyal user
dallas, tx
247 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 8:16am
I read that too and thought it was a little strange to be honest. Is Walter Scott even still alive? If you guys know him, what region is he from...ie Pacific NW, Midwestern, etc..
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scafidi7
Elite user
Canada
453 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 8:22am
I won't tell you where Doc is from. He might not want people to know.
Walter Scott is not alive so it doesn't really matter where he was from because you won't find him anymore.
The book is "Phantoms of the Card Table" by Gazzo/Britland, not to be confused with the original "Phantom of the Card Table" penned by Eddie McGuire (sp?). Actually the title was mentioned in the first post...i'd recommend reading it in order to follow this thread accurately.
I cannot recommend this book enough (well both books).
T.Joseph O'Malley
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Welshwizard
Loyal user
Wales
292 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 8:46am
Phantoms of the Card Table is a brilliant book, even without the techniques at the end.
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Tielie
Veteran user
333 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 8:47am
This books is on my huge "to buy" list
But I thought it was kind of strange to see this.
I thought cheats didn't want to be known, this guy seems like searching the attention.
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JordanB
Loyal user
dallas, tx
247 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 10:37am
I'm not doubting his credibility, just it was a very strange thing to see on the Amazon web site. I was thinking maybe he was foreigner or from somewhere with a heavy accent like Texas or New England b/c of the wording of some of the sentences. The book was a very enjoyable read. I like reading about Vernon and it gave a lot of info about Vernon that I thought was interesting.
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Mr. Z
New user
NY
99 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 10:40am
He's an odd duck, that's for sure.
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scafidi7
Elite user
Canada
453 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 10:42am
Keep in mind that while you're probably correct about cheats not wanting to be known, do you know what Doc looks like? Do you know his real name? Do you know where he lives? He's still unknown to you and most people out there. Heck I've had correspondence with him several times and I still don't know what he looks like. I *think* I know his real name but who can be sure?
T.Joseph O'Malley
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Firedice27
Inner circle
Chicago, IL
1404 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 11:49am
So I take it that his glowing comments on his own skills are being said a bit tounge-in-cheek? Or is this guy really bragging? Having the skills is one thing, letting everyone know you have the skills is another... and letting everyone know you have the skills GRACEFULLY is even more! Just wondering.
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LeConte
Special user
Bay area
579 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 4:07pm
As a working cheater just how often do you get to bask in any kind of glory for your success? You would wind up dead most likely. Some stray post on the Internet seems like a good way to "toot your own horn" a bit as it were in relative safety. Besides, DOC only claims to be one of the ten best so that leaves room for many other great unknown cheats to join him at the world championships of card cheating.
Drive Carefully
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ursusminor
Regular user
Norway
185 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 8:03pm
True or not - Bragging or not -
Now I HAVE to get that book!
Bjørn
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them
pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened."
- Winston Churchill"
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Jive-Turkey
Special user
Chicago
576 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2004 10:47pm
Either way the guy is a cheat and being a cheat doesn't lend credibility to his word and specificially to his review of a book. If he wants to hide in the shadows, then that's fine but until he's credible, his words are just a spiel from a used car saleman.
Mike Walton
Try not. Do or do not. There is no try.
YODA
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Partizan
Special user
London UK
523 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2004 1:17am
Mmmmm, a credible cheat. Now there's one I gotta see.
His review made me laugh. and if people are backing up that he has the moves then good for him.
Btw. I made number 14 on the top 10 pokemon cheat all timers.
There is something to be learned from a rainstorm.
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Firedice27
Inner circle
Chicago, IL
1404 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2004 12:22pm
Ah... yes... pokemon... now THERE'S something to brag about!
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Elknase
New user
30 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2004 7:04pm
Quote:
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Do you guys think a real cheat would
a. know himself to be one of the best in the country
b. show off about it?
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Probably only if he is about to retire from the cheating business or being convinced that he is 'The New Phantom of the Card Table' — his identity not being revealed to the public. That is, the public will neither identify him nor get a chance to perceive that they have been fleeced by 'the phantom' when they played a little game of poker.
Given D.O.C. is about to retire, he might write a book about his expertise and experiences from the world of cheating or do some consulting business in the casino world.
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Jonathan Townsend
Inner circle
Ossining, NY
4598 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2004 7:27pm
It's a nice literary pose.
Much like Mrs Mary Shelly wrote 'Frankenstein' under as Anonymous.
As to the veracity of ANY competent cheat writing ANYTHING about what they do... please... that is just too funny. Have you noticed that even the reformed hackers never write about exactly how their old code worked, and instead just use vague metaphors like 'virus' and 'trojan' and 'worm'. So it is, and so it was. The folks who write exposes are almost always wannabes. Not that what they write is anything less than entertaining and perhaps thought provoking... just less than exact and accurate in terms of how the stuff REALLY happens.
So, who else suspects 'expert at the card table' was written by a temperance leader writing from notes taken from confessions of broken gamblers?
...to all the coins I've dropped.
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Tony Noice
Regular user
105 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2004 7:45pm
Jonathan,
As usual, your post is literate and stimulating.
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Elknase
New user
30 Posts
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Posted: May 2, 2004 8:30am
Very good point. But that doesn't mean that a former cheat is not for real because a book doesn't expose everything about his expertise.
A successful cheat will probably not have the motivation to write an expose, except the 'expose' is part of a successful scam or he is about to retire with the idea to make some money with an expose containing just enough material to make it sell.
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Chris Keppel
Loyal user
Kansas City MO
217 Posts
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Posted: May 2, 2004 3:18pm
Here is the way I look at it. When you think you're the best, you normally are not. There is always going to be someone better, tougher, more good looking, better at sports, has a nice car, etc. It's a big statement to say "I'm the best in the country." I'm suprised with that attitude he didn't say the best in the world. I haven't seen his stuff but I have indeed heard of him. Yes I heard some good stuff, but that doesn't mean go around trying to portray yourself as the MAN. If that's the way he wants people to look at him, as he is good, you're not, then that's cool. Let him enjoy his time of fame, if that what you want to call it.
Chris Keppel, aka THE SHOCKER, aka KEPP DADDY
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Unknown419
Regular user
164 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2004 8:09pm
Hello Mr. Jason England. This is Doc. how are you doing? I hope all is well with you and your family and thanks for hooking me up with Damien Namen (to those who don’t know – the writer and director of the movie "Shade.")
Gentlemen at this forum who don't think that I can back up what I say, just put some money on the table and play me; and as you walk away broke all you're going to hear me saying in a small still voice to the onlookers, "And the Legend Continues".
You call me a wanna be but I'm not, I am an "I am." I posted that review because once I place my signature on it (recommending it) you can rest assured that you can take that to the bank. I've have met some of the top card men in the country that spoke at this forum like Wesley James, Darwin O, Andrew W, and others who may not Gene Maze, Frank Garcia, Doug Edwards, Harry Lorayne, Tony Mouley, Ken Krenzel, Herb Zarrow, Meir Yedid, David Ben, Mark Mitton, Bill Kalush, Russel T. Barnhart, Vinny Sabbatino, Briant (last name not known), Carl Polaris, David Ferst, Sal Piacente, Ricky Jay and his managers, Darwin Ortiz (from his books) and a host of others who names I can't remember from Reubin's (NYC) who has been my teachers over the years.
My newest teachers in the last 2 years have been Sal Piacente, Rod the Hop, Jason England (he taught me stuff over the phone), the famous Andrew Wimhurst (who is the best middle dealer I know with the Kennedy Grip Variant), Darwin Ortiz, Allan Ackerman, Damien Namen, Sam Case from his notes, Dr. X - Terri Roses, John Radford, Tom Landon, Walter Scott (from The Phantom of the Card Table Book(s), a host of hustlers throughout this country who I will not name), soon to be Paul Wilson and the most talented of us all and the best I've ever seen Mr. Steve Forte. If I was good before meeting these guys with no gambling help, imagine what I’m going to be like after I study what they taught me.
So any of you who doubt my skills or want to go up against me, I just wanted to let you know that you will be going up against part of each and everyone of these guys who were my teachers throughout my life except soon to be Paul Wison. And as far as Cold Decking, I might be "the best in the world." So if you thought that I was blowing off steam as far as my punch dealing technique well the pipes just busted with my Vanishing Dice Switching Move and My Cold Deck Move(s).
Andrew, regarding your statement about staying away from the magicians, The magicians are my friends even though which some are correct when they said that I toot my horn. But If I didn't to those who said it, would have never heard of me... There's a method to my madness.
Andrew, if I did what you said, I would have never met you (who is one of my teachers) through Darwin nor the other experts like Jason England, Damien Namen and so on... I can't excel without the help of ya'll. Most may not know the pschology behind gambling but like someone said that doesn't mean that they don't know how to execute the moves.
If I've offended any of my teachers such as those I've named in my previous posting, I very much apologies and please forgive me.
Doc
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rawdawg
New user
Southern California
43 Posts
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Posted: May 22, 2004 2:36am
So...
...how much is the buy in?
bowwowwow!
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J Wessmiller
New user
VA
71 Posts
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Posted: May 22, 2004 5:06am
You are a lucky man Doc. Any plans for publishing anything? Also, can you give us additional recommendations for literature? I remember reading that post on amazon, and it infulenced me to purchase the book.
Take Care,
J. Wess
"The best index to a person's character is a) how he treats people who can't do him any good, and b) how he treats people who can't fight back."
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Unknown419
Regular user
164 Posts
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Posted: May 22, 2004 5:20am
I just posted something on the Strike Second if you care to read it. Thanks for your comment. I'm not all that; I'm just a regular guy if you get to know me who wants to help. You took my Phantoms of the Table comment just the way I want everyone to; just to influence you to buy the book (not to brag) if you're a gambler or intend to be.
As far as books are concerned, there are things that I know but not allowed to tell or post because it was given to me in strict confidence by the world's best cheats, some of whom you already know or heard of. This is why when you read my stuff you will see comments from some of the best telling me to shut up in a polite way and don't give out too much info.
In a nutshell I'm just pre-advertising.
Thanks for writing me.
Your New Friend
Doc
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marmaduke
New user
61 Posts
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Posted: May 22, 2004 6:03am
Welcome Doc.
I always admire fellow egomaniacs. If someone brags that they are the best in the world I usually find that they are just exactly that.
Remember Cassius Clay?
Furthermore anything that upsets magicians has to be a very good thing indeed.
I always approve of it.
I have an odd sense of humour.
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Unknown419
Regular user
164 Posts
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Posted: May 22, 2004 6:17am
Hey Marmaduke how ya doing. You know I had to give you a shout out for writing me and not thinking that I was a nutcase. I need all the friends that I can get.
I just want to know one thing, how did you know I was a MaNiAc? I don't think I told that to any one except when I was arguing with myself.
Thanks for writing
Your New Friend
Doc
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